GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Gertrude on November 04, 2020, 11:05:46 PM
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FINALLY !
Boy this took a heck of a lot of effort and time on my part, but at least it's coming to fruition now.
contact and review info here
https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/ (https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/)
https://mountainsportairguns.com/dynamic-air-rifle-25-review-hunt/ (https://mountainsportairguns.com/dynamic-air-rifle-25-review-hunt/)
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Very nice looking guns, I like the clean traditional styling. I take it that you are a part of the company/been helping out, so congratulations on the successful fruition of your efforts! Hope that all goes well with the restart, :D
Jesse
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Ron thanks a lot for continuing on with the DAR products, I just ordered a magazine for the .22 myself.
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Ron thanks a lot for continuing on with the DAR products, I just ordered a magazine for the .22 myself.
You are going to like the design of new mag MUCH better than the original.
It's very nice. Very simple. And Very sturdy.
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Good looking rifle, great price.
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Manny they're a super light rifle too. They're actually a unique design as well, the hammer on them rides inside of a polymer tube, when you have that gun partially dismantled so the hammer is free in the tube it'll slide back and forth at the slightest angle. The regulators on mine all work great too and you can really crank the power up on a stock unmodified gun with regulator and hammer spring adjustments. Right out of the box my .25 was capable of 10 shots at 60+fpe through adjustments only but I did back it down to 50fpe. When I get the magazine for the .22 I'll be back out in the woods with it again for sure. The barrels on the Gen1 were unchoked and I'm sure the Gen2's will be as well.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1857/44752902501_b768287b17_b.jpg)
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High end features at a budget price. I like it. 8)
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Never looked into these before, but wow! For the price and fearures (especially the unchoked barrel...been looking for a rifle with this) this one just got placed high on my list.
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Ron..... PM sent.
I reckon it's time to sell something to fund one of these.
I've been setting my pcp guns to balance shot count and accuracy but, I think it's time to own one set up for power.
I'm liking the light weight, side lever, regulator and trigger stats on this one.
I also like the wood and metal design.
Dana's pros have an impressive advantage over the virtually non existent cons.
Any idea what the heaviest Nielsen .25 slug would fit the mag?
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Bill here's a chrony/pic of my DAR25 back in July 2018 (Dang it's been over 2 years now) and it will get excellent power for 20 shots at a good 50fpe, super light nice looking conventional style rifle that isn't a mile long and it's super accurate to boot.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1770/43359863112_e70d10c3ed_h.jpg)
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Couple weeks ago I mounted a scope and sighted in (@50 yds with some wind) a new DAR .25 for the owner. It came out of the box with 3000 PSI in it (a good sign).
I didn't do any trigger or other adjustments. All I had with me were JSB 33.95's, so that's what I used. Only shot a a few mags on paper to check function but it was clearly hunting accurate, with potential to be very good.
I was impressed with the sturdy build quality, fit and finish. Trigger was good, lever was pretty smooth. Magazines were nicely machined aluminum and similar in design to my Evanix Rainstorm's. A magnet held them in place and they functioned perfectly. Barrel band is unobtrusive and holds tight; no flex. NO plastic parts on the exterior of the rifle. Marauder quiet. The stock felt and shouldered nice but was a bit "blocky" in the forend. Short and light; not muzzle-heavy at all.
One thing I hate about any supposed hunting air rifle is flimsy, flexy, cheapness. I see none of that in the DAR. It's solid and functional. A gun I wouldn't be worried about bashing around in the field. Reminds me of my Remington 700 or 870. Should have come with sling studs but they would be easy to add.
Time will tell if the new DAR's internals hold up. As a hunter though, I'd put my money on it over any other current inexpensive Chinese guns, based upon what looks to be a sturdy, rough-duty rifle.
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Thanks for the in field testimonies guys.
One gun added to the classifieds and doing the workup on another to fund one of these.
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I also like the looks of these. I've had a .25 Avenger on order since September. If the shipping date gets pushed back again, I think I'm going to cancel that order and get one of these instead.
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Manny they're a super light rifle too. They're actually a unique design as well, the hammer on them rides inside of a polymer tube, when you have that gun partially dismantled so the hammer is free in the tube it'll slide back and forth at the slightest angle. The regulators on mine all work great too and you can really crank the power up on a stock unmodified gun with regulator and hammer spring adjustments. Right out of the box my .25 was capable of 10 shots at 60+fpe through adjustments only but I did back it down to 50fpe. When I get the magazine for the .22 I'll be back out in the woods with it again for sure. The barrels on the Gen1 were unchoked and I'm sure the Gen2's will be as well.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1857/44752902501_b768287b17_b.jpg)
Good info Wayne , those 75 yard shots Dana did were pretty darn good , it looks like they fixed issues with the gen 1 ,with this gen 2 ,and I do have 2 scopes left from my Avenger problems .. .. ;) ....
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Like Dana, I had an opportunity to evaluate one of the gen 2 models, a .22 in this case. My gen 1 (.25 cal) exhibited several issues, all of which I was able to address to my satisfaction, and its accuracy is so good that there was no way I was going to return it. Well, I’m happy to say the gen 2 is every bit as accurate and it has given me exactly zero problems after months of use.
Here’s a quick scope cam clip of reactive targets at 50 yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXfDq-8LSUE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXfDq-8LSUE)
One of the more surprising things to me was how well the regulator worked from the start. The reg on my gen 1 creeped quite a bit. It’s been rock solid since I dressed the seal on the end of the piston, and that’s pretty well par for the course with many regulators I’ve dealt with. Even the regs in vastly more expensive models like the FX Impact are notorious for it. However with the gen 2 there was no evidence of creep whatsoever. Of course that’s a sample size of one so I have no idea how that will play out over a larger population but it’s just one of those things I anticipate needing to deal with and it was nice to not have to for a change.
And that stability has held up to this day. It’s my go-to for 50 – 70 yard pest control duty. For example, my neighbor had asked me to eliminate as many chipmunks as I can from their property. Those shots are typically 50 yarders to their bird feeder, and usually the only time I can visit is on the weekends so the DAR may sit idle for a week but I know I can pick it up on Saturday and it will deliver the first shot precisely where asked. No warm ups, no settling the plenum, none of that. Chippers aren’t exactly a large target at 50 yards but the DAR is up to the task. On the last visit it drilled 3 of them back-to-back-to-back at 50 yards. Not a one of them was a glancing blow, all three were anchored on the spot. That’s the kind of confidence I love to have in a pesting rig.
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Couple weeks ago I mounted a scope and sighted in (@50 yds with some wind) a new DAR .25 for the owner. It came out of the box with 3000 PSI in it (a good sign).
I didn't do any trigger or other adjustments. All I had with me were JSB 33.95's, so that's what I used. Only shot a a few mags on paper to check function but it was clearly hunting accurate, with potential to be very good.
I was impressed with the sturdy build quality, fit and finish. Trigger was good, lever was pretty smooth. Magazines were nicely machined aluminum and similar in design to my Evanix Rainstorm's. A magnet held them in place and they functioned perfectly. Barrel band is unobtrusive and holds tight; no flex. NO plastic parts on the exterior of the rifle. Marauder quiet. The stock felt and shouldered nice but was a bit "blocky" in the forend. Short and light; not muzzle-heavy at all.
One thing I hate about any supposed hunting air rifle is flimsy, flexy, cheapness. I see none of that in the DAR. It's solid and functional. A gun I wouldn't be worried about bashing around in the field. Reminds me of my Remington 700 or 870. Should have come with sling studs but they would be easy to add.
Time will tell if the new DAR's internals hold up. As a hunter though, I'd put my money on it over any other current inexpensive Chinese guns, based upon what looks to be a sturdy, rough-duty rifle.
Great 1st hand review,....sounds like a true winner at 300 bucks
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I tried to find the company's address on their site and on FB. I still can't say where they are located after my searches. I also couldn't see where parts could be obtained or how to order them. I see a little info on the sales front, but nothing for support. You basically get a phone number, or a request form to send in, which could be good or bad. Not the type of gun promotion that would interest me, unless I thought of the gun as a disposable one at $300. Maybe that's the sales plan???
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On the topic of sustaining rough handling, a few thoughts on the barrel band…
If memory serves, there were just 2 grub screws on my gen 1 and I added a 3rd at the 6 o’clock position. I don’t remember if the gen 2 had the 3rd screw or if I added that one as well but I think that’s a good idea.
The band is somewhat thin but it is an aluminum part so it’s plenty sturdy from the perspective of taking the modest bumps the barrel (shroud) is likely to see during field carry. However it’s secured with small M3 grub screws. I haven’t stripped any of them but I know how easy it is to do in aluminum so take care not to overtighten them. A sharp enough impact to the muzzle is going to rotate it. If you try to develop sufficient torque to prevent that, all you’re going to do is strip the threads.
If you want to mitigate that possibility, get slightly longer screws and make a shallow dimple for them to bed into. Of course make sure first that it’s clocked to the neutral position dictated by the barrel/shroud assembly. Just bear in mind that by doing so, a sharp impact has the potential to destroy the barrel band precisely because it can’t rotate. So rather than looking at some scratches from the ends of the grub screws, you might find yourself holding a ruptured barrel band. Just some food for thought.
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Keith, I can only speak for my experience but Aim Sports promptly sent a replacement poppet when the original in the gen 1 broke.
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I've never really worried about factory parts,..... members eventually will start making parts that you can buy from.
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I've never really worried about factory parts,..... members eventually will start making parts that you can buy from.
Thanks for confirming...
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My Gen 2 in .25 is just as accurate as the Gen 1's I've shot. Yeah, the mags are a Huge improvement.
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Great the AIMSPORTS are able to sort things out and put the rifle back on the market.
I remember the first version stock is kind weak and easily damaged. Hope version 2 is tougher
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:-\ I'm considering one in .177, just wondering on FPS FPE numbers.
Gertrude has been very helpful with support issues with the gen 1 so I have no worries there.
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Keith, I can only speak for my experience but Aim Sports promptly sent a replacement poppet when the original in the gen 1 broke.
I couldn't find any mention of these on that site. I guess I need a link...
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:-\ I'm considering one in .177, just wondering on FPS FPE numbers.
Gertrude has been very helpful with support issues with the gen 1 so I have no worries there.
Although it will be probably a few weeks off before I get started on it, (I have other priority obligations eating up my time right now),
But I will soon be working/tinkering/tuning/testing on a .177 with the intention of getting it down to a 12 FPE, 10 meter paper puncher.
Once in the process, I will be recording all relevant data, i.e. fpe to shot count per fill, fps, fpe, etc.
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Cool I have thins to keep me busy till then too ;)
PS did find the general factory specs https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177 (https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177)
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This one interests me, actually more than I would have thought, more so than the Avenger.
Regarding grub screws and barrel bands. The moving barrel on the Disco was such a pain, even after adding a second, couldn't keep that barrel in place. I did the multiple screws etc. which did help a lot. The thing that really sealed the deal was using blue locktite to fill in the gap/space inside the band around the air tube. I leave the barrel free. Since doing that, I can take the gun apart without issue and just leave the bands be. If the band ever needs to be moved or removed , all it takes is a couple of semi sharp taps using a wood dowel and small hammer and it slides off. The Disco (sporting a shroud these days) barrel is rock solid, even had it fall over and it stayed in place. Thank goodness it was on carpet, still without the blue locktite, in the past it would have moved.
Back to the Gen 2, nicely done. Time to watch some reviews.
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Cool I have thins to keep me busy till then too ;)
PS did find the general factory specs https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177 (https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177)
James I've never tried de tuning my .177 however I did find a chrony/pic I did back in 2018 with the Gen1. I've shot a turkey with this gun, one shot to the head is all it took.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1872/30326136168_1940a43ac1_b.jpg)
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Thanks Ron
I'll be following and looking forward to this report, I need a PcP 177 cal...................... ;)
As I don't have one yet......... :o
Don
:-\ I'm considering one in .177, just wondering on FPS FPE numbers.
Gertrude has been very helpful with support issues with the gen 1 so I have no worries there.
Although it will be probably a few weeks off before I get started on it, (I have other priority obligations eating up my time right now),
But I will soon be working/tinkering/tuning/testing on a .177 with the intention of getting it down to a 12 FPE, 10 meter paper puncher.
Once in the process, I will be recording all relevant data, i.e. fpe to shot count per fill, fps, fpe, etc.
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Looks like the best bang for the buck in the 300 bucks range.
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Looks like the best bang for the buck in the 300 bucks range.
Where would you order these from?
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https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/products (https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/products)
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Jason the new magazines won't work in the 1st gen DAR's I talked on the phone with them and they're going to send me a couple .22 1st gen mags that are good.
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Wayne, thanks for the heads up. I almost ordered one for my .25 this evening.
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Jason the new magazines won't work in the 1st gen DAR's I talked on the phone with them and they're going to send me a couple .22 1st gen mags that are good.
Thanks Wayne for the heads up, as I also almost ordered one for my Gen 1
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Cool I have thins to keep me busy till then too ;)
PS did find the general factory specs https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177 (https://www.dynamicairrifles.com/product-page/dar-177)
James I've never tried de tuning my .177 however I did find a chrony/pic I did back in 2018 with the Gen1. I've shot a turkey with this gun, one shot to the head is all it took.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1872/30326136168_1940a43ac1_b.jpg)
That seems pretty good for a 15 gr pellet Wayne thanks !
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I just ordered the .25
We'll see how it goes. If it works out I'll look into picking up a .22 as well.
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Well guess what ? ;D ... you guys talked me into it ;) ... SO I ordered the .25 DAR with 2 extra mags ! Dana's video helped out a lot explaining the gen1 problems ,and how they have been fixed ,and how accurate at 75 yards it was , plus all you guys on this thread that have the gen2 DAR are giving it a thumbs up with zero complaints has sold ME ! { besides I just really need another .25 pcp ::) ::) ;D ... happiness is a NEW GUN ! rabbit hole suit on ! ;D }
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Dan I'm going to hold off for now and see how it goes with my Gen1 .22 when I get the mags for it. If I do eventually order another it'll be the .25 because my Gen1 I was never able to take it completely apart because one of the screws is seized up bad on the breech and I never was able to get it apart. I could drill it out yet is what I'm thinking before I order one just to see how things go ??? That gun had bad corrosion throughout when I got it. I'm guessing they've pretty much got the Gen2's corrected now from all I've seen.
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I tried to find the company's address on their site and on FB. I still can't say where they are located after my searches. I also couldn't see where parts could be obtained or how to order them. I see a little info on the sales front, but nothing for support. You basically get a phone number, or a request form to send in, which could be good or bad. Not the type of gun promotion that would interest me, unless I thought of the gun as a disposable one at $300. Maybe that's the sales plan???
I think these guys are the same new DAR company here under the vender gate. I saw a post by them on here to ask any questions or help and they would be glade to help. Sure you can get parts through them.
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PA just changed their date again on the Avenger...November 23...I'm just about done with that idea till later. The DAR .22 reminds me very much like my Discovery .22...which is 41" long but not regulated...still a good shooter since 2008...have it adjusted for 906 FPS...20 shots using JSB 14.3 gr.
The Dar .22 would be real handy where I hunt...got some $$ coming any day now...thinking..lol
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I tried to find the company's address on their site and on FB. I still can't say where they are located after my searches. I also couldn't see where parts could be obtained or how to order them. I see a little info on the sales front, but nothing for support. You basically get a phone number, or a request form to send in, which could be good or bad. Not the type of gun promotion that would interest me, unless I thought of the gun as a disposable one at $300. Maybe that's the sales plan???
IIRC, they offered either A) a refund on the Gen 1 or B) a replacement with a Gen 2. Are they honoring that?
I don't own a DAR and don't want one (my modified Marauders do a similar job for me), and I don't know if they'll provide further after-sale support.
However, it's rare for an airgun maker to display such integrity; taking what appears to be total responsibility for a defective product and offering their customers two options to make it right.
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PA just changed their date again on the Avenger...November 23...I'm just about done with that idea till later. The DAR .22 reminds me very much like my Discovery .22...which is 41" long but not regulated...still a good shooter since 2008...have it adjusted for 906 FPS...20 shots using JSB 14.3 gr.
The Dar .22 would be real handy where I hunt...got some $$ coming any day now...thinking..lol
With all the problem's that popped up on my .22 and .25 Avenger's { I returned both guns } I would wait till they get those problems solved , they rushed that gun to Market with little or NO testing and ended up with bad Hammer spring adjusters and bad regs that creep , and I think maybe leak , or the poppet is leaking when trying to refill the gun from zero pressure with air while adjusting the reg on gun ... so its the typical China product - first rush of a product to our market with out enough testing /QC control... this should be a warning to any company having their guns made in China to test sample guns very thoroughly before releasing them to the public ... its like they are making us do the QC control.... when that should never happen...
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PA just changed their date again on the Avenger...November 23...I'm just about done with that idea till later. The DAR .22 reminds me very much like my Discovery .22...which is 41" long but not regulated...still a good shooter since 2008...have it adjusted for 906 FPS...20 shots using JSB 14.3 gr.
The Dar .22 would be real handy where I hunt...got some $$ coming any day now...thinking..lol
With all the problem's that popped up on my .22 and .25 Avenger's { I returned both guns } I would wait till they get those problems solved , they rushed that gun to Market with little or NO testing and ended up with bad Hammer spring adjusters and bad regs that creep , and I think maybe leak , or the poppet is leaking when trying to refill the gun from zero pressure with air while adjusting the reg on gun ... so its the typical China product - first rush of a product to our market with out enough testing /QC control... this should be a warning to any company having their guns made in China to test sample guns very thoroughly before releasing them to the public ... its like they are making us do the QC control.... when that should never happen...
I followed your posts and thanks for the heads up...I will wait till the fix is in. I can hunt with my Maurader .25 or Discovery .22 in the meantime.
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Ive shot the new DAR and its crazy accurate and very well made I think many will love this gun.
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IIRC, they offered either A) a refund on the Gen 1 or B) a replacement with a Gen 2. Are they honoring that?
...it's rare for an airgun maker to display such integrity; taking what appears to be total responsibility for a defective product and offering their customers two options to make it right.
Hey Victor, great to hear of their integrity and good intentions. Was there ever a thread on the Gen 1 DAR’s anywhere on here?
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Ive shot the new DAR and its crazy accurate and very well made I think many will love this gun.
Thanks for sharing that Travis , .... very well made ,and crazy accurate is what we all want ... heck I should just order the .22 also ,and I think I will ;D ;D after all the scopes I had on my Avenger gun's need a new home ! / gun's !.... ;) ....
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Ive shot the new DAR and its crazy accurate and very well made I think many will love this gun.
Great to hear. I have no place to shoot as my basement range is gone due to COVID and kids back to home. Can not wait to try it
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1 question I do have about the DAR guns - is what material is the poppet made of ?
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1 question I do have about the DAR guns - is what material is the poppet made of ?
+1 on that this is why I stayed away from the beeman chief—reports of failures of that part. I really like the features and look of these rifles.btw does anyone know if these rifles are available without a regulator?
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I had a DAR Gen 2 .25 as a tester.
I also had the chance to shoot several versions across the USA.
I had breakfast cooked for me by the Guy producing the DAR's!
That was after a night of hunting Yotes with him and Ron.
I know a lot of behind the scene on the DAR and I will say this.
Keep an eye on them! QC is upper most and I know some other stuff is coming soon!
I'm waiting for the next stage when DAR really shows you what they can do!
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I had a DAR Gen 2 .25 as a tester.
I also had the chance to shoot several versions across the USA.
I had breakfast cooked for me by the Guy producing the DAR's!
That was after a night of hunting Yotes with him and Ron.
I know a lot of behind the scene on the DAR and I will say this.
Keep an eye on them! QC is upper most and I know some other stuff is coming soon!
I'm waiting for the next stage when DAR really shows you what they can do!
Can you elaborate i.e. your impression of your test gun, how quality control improved and what did you have for breakfast? Thanks
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I had a DAR Gen 2 .25 as a tester.
I also had the chance to shoot several versions across the USA.
I had breakfast cooked for me by the Guy producing the DAR's!
That was after a night of hunting Yotes with him and Ron.
I know a lot of behind the scene on the DAR and I will say this.
Keep an eye on them! QC is upper most and I know some other stuff is coming soon!
I'm waiting for the next stage when DAR really shows you what they can do!
WOW,...nice endorsement.
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I had a first gen DAR, overall the gun wasn't bad, my side lever was a little sloppy but a thin washer would have fixed that. My problem was I couldn't get an action that would hold air more than a day or two due to poor machining tolerances for o-rings between the regulator and the air tube. Spent $20 on different o-rings from the o-ring store trying to resolve the leak. Aim sports did their absolute best to work with me but just couldn't un-do the poor craftsmanship on that first run of rifles. I remember many having trouble with cracked clear covers on the magazines because the screws had been overtightened making them split. Due to the vast amount of issues by their customers, they finally made the decision to recall the rifles. Customer service was never an issue for me, I took the refund and shortly after ordered a Nova Liberty.
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I had a DAR Gen 2 .25 as a tester.
I also had the chance to shoot several versions across the USA.
I had breakfast cooked for me by the Guy producing the DAR's!
That was after a night of hunting Yotes with him and Ron.
I know a lot of behind the scene on the DAR and I will say this.
Keep an eye on them! QC is upper most and I know some other stuff is coming soon!
I'm waiting for the next stage when DAR really shows you what they can do!
Thanks for the info!
Any hope of having a high pressure tube like in the avenger (300 bar)? Any work on semi-auto?
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I had a DAR Gen 2 .25 as a tester.
I also had the chance to shoot several versions across the USA.
I had breakfast cooked for me by the Guy producing the DAR's!
That was after a night of hunting Yotes with him and Ron.
I know a lot of behind the scene on the DAR and I will say this.
Keep an eye on them! QC is upper most and I know some other stuff is coming soon!
I'm waiting for the next stage when DAR really shows you what they can do!
Thats cool , but what did you think about the gun shooting wise in your testing ?
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Shooting wise?
I've never had a Gun right out of the box that shoots like the DAR Gen 2!
I'd put it up against my Hatsan Nova that Rocker1 sold me any day!
And that Nova is killer accurate as a few people have witnessed.
Breakfast was scrambled eggs, fried taters, bacon, and coffee.
:D
Can't say on the high pressure tubes. Never heard talk of that.
Semi-auto?
;)
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Charlie
Go to pg 127, ( Sept 4th date), and you find info of the Gen 1 Dar's................. ;), this is all I have found so far............
Don
IIRC, they offered either A) a refund on the Gen 1 or B) a replacement with a Gen 2. Are they honoring that?
...it's rare for an airgun maker to display such integrity; taking what appears to be total responsibility for a defective product and offering their customers two options to make it right.
Hey Victor, great to hear of their integrity and good intentions. Was there ever a thread on the Gen 1 DAR’s anywhere on here?
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Shooting wise?
I've never had a Gun right out of the box that shoots like the DAR Gen 2!
I'd put it up against my Hatsan Nova that Rocker1 sold me any day!
And that Nova is killer accurate as a few people have witnessed.
Breakfast was scrambled eggs, fried taters, bacon, and coffee.
:D
Can't say on the high pressure tubes. Never heard talk of that.
Semi-auto?
;)
Sounds fun-tastic , hope fully they will call me tomorrow and I will just go a head , and buy both the .22 and .25 to replace the problem riddled Avengers I returned ...
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OK I have both the .22 and .25 DAR ordered , just waiting for a phone call for payment , according to the check out they will call to get payment over the phone .... I also ordered dove tail to pic rail mounts for both guns off ebay since both the scopes have pic rail rings on them ...
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Here is some more info on the DAR's,
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=144959.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=144959.0)
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Here is some more info for the DAR's,
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146226.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146226.0)
I sure HATE this BS about NOT being able to modify your posts....................... >:( >:(
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Anyone have any experience using slugs in the 25 cal?
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Update.... I'm half ways to the funds for a .25 Dar.... ;) ;)
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I got my magazine for my Gen1 DAR today, very fast shipping I must say, I'm willing to bet it won't be long before people start getting the Gen2's.
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I got my magazine for my Gen1 DAR today, very fast shipping I must say, I'm willing to bet it won't be long before people start getting the Gen2's.
Well I ordered a .25 on Friday , and a .22 today early this morning ,and they say they will call you to get payment ... well I have not received a call yet for payment ...
Wayne how did you order , and pay them ?
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They called me on my land line and I used my debit card. I think I'll order the Gen2 .25 myself, I've got a mold I haven't tested in the .25 yet for slugs.
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Isn't Washington 3 hours behind Michigan? I think I'll order it over the phone if possible, I'll also order an extra magazine with it.
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Isn't Washington 3 hours behind Michigan? I think I'll order it over the phone if possible, I'll also order an extra magazine with it.
Yes it is eastern 3 hours behind with the exception of the west top corner of Michigan .
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I can feel the excitement exploding as I sift through this thread!
Congratulations to those of you who are “all in” !!!
Seems like a worthy investment and I am excited to see how dependable and accurate these new Gen2’s are
I vicariously look forward to your reports 😎
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I did go ahead and ordered the .25 and an extra mag, I didn't see a phone number to contact so hopefully when they call I'll be here however if they do they'll probably leave a return call number if I'm not.
As many of you know I've been spending a lot of time out in the woods earlier in the morning however I'm usually home by noon which would be right around Aimsports opening hours so it should be all
good. When they did call it showed "Aimsports" so I immediately answered the call and basically they asked about what I ordered and sent it after I gave them the info they needed to send it to me. It appears
that they sent it the same day they called because it showed up on my email as shipped later that day in my USPS info. I'm sure it might take a couple days longer for the rifle to come because it will either
be shipped Fedex or UPS ???
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I did go ahead and ordered the .25 and an extra mag, I didn't see a phone number to contact so hopefully when they call I'll be here however if they do they'll probably leave a return call number if I'm not.
As many of you know I've been spending a lot of time out in the woods earlier in the morning however I'm usually home by noon which would be right around Aimsports opening hours so it should be all
good. When they did call it showed "Aimsports" so I immediately answered the call and basically they asked about what I ordered and sent it after I gave them the info they needed to send it to me. It appears
that they sent it the same day they called because it showed up on my email as shipped later that day in my USPS info. I'm sure it might take a couple days longer for the rifle to come because it will either
be shipped Fedex or UPS ???
Congrats! It sounds like you'll be receiving three mags then, as they already come with two mags from what I read about them. I'm not the preorder type, but look forward to the comments from those that are.
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Yep my Gen 2 22cal came with 2 Mags! Very nice mags by the way.. Oh and i have a gen 1 mag that does work in my Gen 2 . Mine has held air all fall no leaks
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OK folks I just got off the phone with Aim Sports , I payed for my order of 2 guns .22 ,and .25 with 2 extra mags each ,and they are shipping out today ;D ;D ;D
So I was talking to the guy at aim sports about the guns , and I think these guys are going all out to make this gun successful .... they are testing every gun very thoroughly right here in the usa where they are located , by filling up at least 100 guns at a time with air letting them sit for days to make sure they hold air pressure correctly ....
then they mount a scope on every gun and test shoot them for correct operation , and accuracy testing ! ... so the QC is second to none in the air gun industry from what he told me = AWESOME ! ;D ;D ;D
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I know Ron put a LOT of time and effort into getting this all done so give him a HUGE Thank You!
I'm looking forward to DAR's future releases what ever they may be!
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Wow that’s a surprising amount of extra effort. I’m delighted to hear they are so committed.
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Wow they're sure on the ball there at Aim Sports, I made my order at 12:05am and they're going to ship it out today, now that is some mighty excellent service indeed. I spent the morning out in the woods and the wind started getting brutal gusts, super warm but no animals doing much of anything out in the woods and very few birds. I did see two hawks one small one and one big one that were both about 30 yards from me. Neither one stuck around for more than a few minutes to just scope out the situation but both them birds I'd say probably spotted me before they even landed. I have no doubt they were looking for chipmunks or red squirrels.
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Just got off the phone with Ryan at aims sports and they are in full production and shipping guns! They are on top of things and I believe they will have one of the best entry level guns on the market.
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Travis have you had a DAR apart before ? I think the way they have the hammer setup is fantastic in them. The guns in my opinion really don't need any kind of upgrade as far as accuracy and performance goes. I was happy to see someone mentioned the Gen2's have a steel bolt probe instead of the brass, much stronger and it was a weak point in the Gen1's too. I'm just going to take it out of the box when I get it and head for the woods with my 26 grainers for the native voyage. That's one pellet that I've got plenty of them cast up already and they shoot close to how the JSB25.39's shoot.
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Travis have you had a DAR apart before ? I think the way they have the hammer setup is fantastic in them. The guns in my opinion really don't need any kind of upgrade as far as accuracy and performance goes. I was happy to see someone mentioned the Gen2's have a steel bolt probe instead of the brass, much stronger and it was a weak point in the Gen1's too. I'm just going to take it out of the box when I get it and head for the woods with my 26 grainers for the native voyage. That's one pellet that I've got plenty of them cast up already and they shoot close to how the JSB25.39's shoot.
I dont want to say to much as it will all be in the video but its a much improved gun from gen 1
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Wow DAR had a busy day today, I also ordered one about 4 am got a call a little after noon, and mine in .177 is on its way.
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I know Ron put a LOT of time and effort into getting this all done so give him a HUGE Thank You!
I'm looking forward to DAR's future releases what ever they may be!
Thanks Jeff,
When my group of buddies first got the Gen 1 DAR's , we were very impressed with the out of the box performance, and then were quickly disappointed in what I felt was poor QC, and that with my help could easily be corrected.
I took it on my own to make contact with AIM and see if they were interested in working with an experienced Airgunner to massage out the bugs.
That was almost 3 years ago, and it has certainly been a challenge working with the Chinese manufacturer to make all the changes I had suggested. Then Covid hit is and that did not make things any easier to say the least.
Anyway, I am happy to have helped along with several respected members here to have brought it to where it is now.
I do see some things that I would still like some improvement on.
Namely a stronger barrel band and screws, but perhaps with coming models we will see even more improvements.
Glad I could help with bringing this gun up to it's potential.
Cheers
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Ron - You sure went above and beyond with getting the Gen ll to this point.
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I know Ron put a LOT of time and effort into getting this all done so give him a HUGE Thank You!
I'm looking forward to DAR's future releases what ever they may be!
Thanks Jeff,
When my group of buddies first got the Gen 1 DAR's , we were very impressed with the out of the box performance, and then were quickly disappointed in what I felt was poor QC, and that with my help could easily be corrected.
I took it on my own to make contact with AIM and see if they were interested in working with an experienced Airgunner to massage out the bugs.
That was almost 3 years ago, and it has certainly been a challenge working with the Chinese manufacturer to make all the changes I had suggested. Then Covid hit is and that did not make things any easier to say the least.
Anyway, I am happy to have helped along with several respected members here to have brought it to where it is now.
I do see some things that I would still like some improvement on.
Namely a stronger barrel band and screws, but perhaps with coming models we will see even more improvements.
Glad I could help with bringing this gun up to it's potential.
Cheers
Way to go Ron !..... Kudos to you and the gang.
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Thanks kindly for your efforts, Ron. 8)
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Thanks Ron, I look forward to shooting one of these some time. Will be interesting to see with C-19 if we'll get to have a fun shoot in the spring, maybe someone will bring their DAR with them if it's not canceled again.
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Thanks Ron for the great effort to ensure the high quality of the guns. The AIMSPORTS should also thank you for the effort because that will be what brings people confidence in their purchases. Hope more innovations are on the way from AIMSPORTS.
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I found some 2 piece dove tail to pic rail adapters 1.5" - 4mm that I am going to use of ebay # 264678345932
Aim Sports wanted to see these so I gave them the # I think they would be smart to have these in stock as ,and option, so they have the pic rail mount type covered ...
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Thanks for the reminder, I will have to check if I have some 11 mm scope mounts on hand, or will I need to get some, oh and for that matter I may as well go scope shopping too ;D 8)
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
Helmsman spar urethane is what to recoat that stock with ... it holds up to the rain forest here with out a problem its pretty tough none chip clear ... the very best is west systems epoxy with the clear hardner none yellowing , but that one is very expensive and very hard to color sand buff out , I used it on my Richard micro fit laminate stock on my xp ranger .45 , its a hard core salt water proof finish for a boat ..
I was told yesterday when I payed that they were going to ship my gun's out , and that I would get later in the day a shipping tracking number , I did not get that ... ::)
so I sent them a message asking about it , they responded that they were shipping my guns today , and again that a shipping tracking number would be sent to my email later in the day .... I still tonight have no tracking number or shipping notification from Aim Sports ....
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My gen 2 22 has an absolutely beautiful stock! I jumped for a 25cal i hope the wood will be close to the 22 LOL
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
Helmsman spar urethane is what to recoat that stock with ... it holds up to the rain forest here with out a problem its pretty tough none chip clear ... the very best is west systems epoxy with the clear hardner none yellowing , but that one is very expensive and very hard to color sand buff out , I used it on my Richard micro fit laminate stock on my xp ranger .45 , its a hard core salt water proof finish for a boat ..
I was told yesterday when I payed that they were going to ship my gun's out , and that I would get later in the day a shipping tracking number , I did not get that ... ::)
so I sent them a message asking about it , they responded that they were shipping my guns today , and again that a shipping tracking number would be sent to my email later in the day .... I still tonight have no tracking number or shipping notification from Aim Sports ....
I'll probably try the inexpensive kind you're talking about on my worst DAR stock and see what it's like. Also since I've had my Gen1 DAR's I don't recall if I had an exploded parts view pdf because since then my computer crashed and I had to reformat this hard drive so if I ever did have a pdf it's long gone. I may check the old DAR threads there might have been one posted there for download but then if there is there will be an updated one for the Gen2's I'm sure.
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My gen 2 22 has an absolutely beautiful stock! I jumped for a 25cal i hope the wood will be close to the 22 LOL
That is good to hear , in Dana's video it looked like they did a good job for the 300 buck price tag for sure ,and gave me reason to just order both .22 and .25 ...
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
If you feel like sanding your stock down a finish like "Tung oil" or even pure Paraffin ( you apply it with a heat gun melting the paraffin on the woog and make it penetrate ) or even "Danish oil" that come in various colors.
All those since they penetrate into the wood are much more durable then any spray on Urethane or Polyurethane.
Been using those on my homemade bows for decades, and bows need much more effective protection then any gun stock will ever need.
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
If you feel like sanding your stock down a finish like "Tung oil" or even pure Paraffin ( you apply it with a heat gun melting the paraffin on the woog and make it penetrate ) or even "Danish oil" that come in various colors.
All those since they penetrate into the wood are much more durable then any spray on Urethane or Polyurethane.
Been using those on my homemade bows for decades, and bows need much more effective protection then any gun stock will ever need.
NO .... tung oil is not as durable as polyurethane or urethane or a 2 part epoxy period ! ... if tung oil was they would use it on hard wood floors or trafficked cabinet work , more pure tung oil does not hold up very well at all on traffic areas , and is not water proof at all , just water resistant to a point , ... in fact most of the tung oil named products that are available today have " petroleum distillate " = polyurethane , and paint thinner mixed amber toned so they work better/ stronger than actual tung oil ... Trust me on this one I used to be a paint contractor for a living that worked on nothing but very large square ft custom homes that required all types of finishes depending on the particular home ...
True tung oil products - again are not considered water proof at all , and are actually just water resistant to a point , and they simply do not hold up on things that are trafficked a lot , or see moisture often ...
OK now we move to the 2 part mixed epoxy like west systems { epoxy/ clear uv rated hardner mix} , think 10 time or a lot more stronger than the poly/urethane product's , this product is made to be submerged in salt water , and is what we use on jet ski's ,and boats ... { I used to race jet ski's pro class 24 years } , and this was the go to product for fiber glass/ carbon fiber race hull repair , or in fact building a carbon fiber complete racing hull , or any other parts hull body related ...
The west systems product is about bullet proof ,and is rock hard yet can still flex like crazy , it also sinks into wood and does just what it does to fiber glass or carbon fiber= bullet proof rock hard salt water proof { that's the key } finish ,.... The problem is this product is a lot harder to work with when using it for a clear gun stock finish than using poly ...
The stock has to be suspended in the air just like if you had to do a spray on poly finish ,but instead you apply with a brush after mixing the 2 parts together ,and you only have so much time to apply it before it sets off / turns rock hard , you need to apply this fast enough that it flows out /levels out leaving no brush strokes , use sand paper to sand smooth between coats maybe 3 coats at most , 2 could could work just fine pending on the finish you want , another thing this product can do is fill in checkering { smooth it out } on the gun stock if it has it to a degree , and that might not be desirable to some people , Poly would have a lesser impact on those areas than the epoxy ,and tung oil less than poly ... The other thing is that the epoxy is way harder to polish it out final finish takes sanding out to at least 1000 grit sand paper then buffing with compounds due to the epoxy's very hard surface , so its a lot more labor involved ...
It all just depends ,and comes down to how robust of a finish you need for the environment you will be operating your gun in , and what kind of finish look you want ...
I have used all of these on gun stocks , and figured this out using tung oil / poly / epoxy ... and from my personal experience the poly is the best easy to work with to get the really good protected surface finish ...
https://www.hunker.com/13414854/tung-oil-vs-polyurethane (https://www.hunker.com/13414854/tung-oil-vs-polyurethane)
https://www.westsystem.com/instruction-manuals/ (https://www.westsystem.com/instruction-manuals/)
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When finishing a stock with Tung oil, Paraffin, Danish oil or even "True oil"
......then finish everything with Carnuba oil paste wax,
Been doing this for decades on my selfbows, wood bows are very sensitive to relative humidity and they hold up just fine when finished like this,....no chipping, nothing.
Want High gloss shiny finish ? .....go with the spray ons, to me is to much work and way to expensive.
It has been decades since I've been using my gun stocks to walk over them in a highly trafficked area ;D ;D ;D
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...have to check if I have some 11 mm scope mounts on hand, or will I need to get some, oh and for that matter I may as well go scope shopping too ;D 8)
;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8)
Good one, I use that kind of reasoning, too!
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I really hope the Gen2 DAR's have a better finish on the stock than the originals, not even using them near as much as my Xisico Sentry's all three of the DAR's the finish on them is very fragile in comparison to my Sentry's. One thing I can say about the Sentry's is they're really tough as nails when using them in terrible conditions in thick brush in dense woods scenario's.
Helmsman spar urethane is what to recoat that stock with ... it holds up to the rain forest here with out a problem its pretty tough none chip clear ... the very best is west systems epoxy with the clear hardner none yellowing , but that one is very expensive and very hard to color sand buff out , I used it on my Richard micro fit laminate stock on my xp ranger .45 , its a hard core salt water proof finish for a boat ..
I was told yesterday when I payed that they were going to ship my gun's out , and that I would get later in the day a shipping tracking number , I did not get that ... ::)
so I sent them a message asking about it , they responded that they were shipping my guns today , and again that a shipping tracking number would be sent to my email later in the day .... I still tonight have no tracking number or shipping notification from Aim Sports ....
I just received the tracking number for my Gen2 25cal in my email today.
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EXTREAMLY POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM DAR !
Ryan needs to get his act together !
I ordered 1 of my gun's .25 last Friday a week ago , early this week I called them because they did not called me to get payment for Fridays order ....once I contacted them by phone and knew my order was in ,and would be processed , I then ordered another gun in .22 then payed for both , I was told at that point the guns would be shipped out that day , and he would send a receipt plus tracking # shortly same day ..
That never happened .......so I sent a message email the next morning , and they emailed me back that they would ship guns ,and send receipt ,and tracking number today ...
That never happened ... again ! :o
.... so I emailed them the next day in the morning ;D , and for the 3rd time .. ;D they said they would ship guns send the tracking # ,and receipt ;) ;) I was thinking this should be my lucky day the 3rd time has to be the time they get it done - right ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
That never happened ! ... again ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so it was yesterday that I emailed them and got no response at all .... I called on the phone this morning ,and Ryan told me they would ship the guns out for sure today ! ;D ;D ;D 1 week later ! ;D ;D ;D
This time it did happen ! ::) ;D ;D { imagine that ;D} tracking ,and shipping receipt was sent /emailed .... checked the tacking # and its not showing up yet in the UPS system yet ... so now lets see if they actually ship the guns , and the tracking number they gave me show this ....
How many of you guys think they will actually ship the guns out today ??? ;D ;D ;D I will give it a 50 /50 chance ;D biased on previous history ,and math ;D ;D ;D ;D
I might be to generous on those chance numbers ! ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Man, you’re having a rough patch aren’t you? First the two bad Avengers and now you can’t get DAR to ship. Don’t forget this is Friday the 13th and bad things happen in threes. ;)
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Man, you’re having a rough patch aren’t you? First the two bad Avengers and now you can’t get DAR to ship. Don’t forget this is Friday the 13th and bad things happen in threes. ;)
;D Hey Jason I think Dan’s luck is running the Other way - he indeed Got his shipping and tracking info on this unlucky day! ;D
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Yeah I was just playing devil’s advocate. Sometimes tracking numbers get into the system without the package being tendered. Hopefully that’s not the case but the way Dan’s luck has been running, I wouldn’t put money on it!
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I must be Having a friday the 13th opposite! Ryan called me at 1:30 central time and I just got my tracking number 4:30 Ryans been nothing but good to me!
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My tracking number doesn't work yet and I think it's because it's being shipped from Ontario according to the email that I got for it.
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Mine was in UPS limbo shipping label was made and UPS had not received the package until this am, now it is moving in what I hope is the right direction.
I do believe there is an Ontario California ??? ??? ???
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Man, you’re having a rough patch aren’t you? First the two bad Avengers and now you can’t get DAR to ship. Don’t forget this is Friday the 13th and bad things happen in threes. ;)
I know its kinda crazy ! these guns popped up after the plastic mattel toys Avenger fiasco ...with DAR great reviews ! so I put my seat belt on ,and headed back down the " rabbit hole HWY " then turned down the DAR darkside express way HA ! HA ! then I hit the dark tunnel of ground hog day's ! of insanity ! but knock on wood I think I see a bit of FRIDAY THE 13TH light at the end of this dark tunnel ! Now at this point I hope it doesn't lead to the UPS gun snatchers HWY ! ::) ::) ::) ::) and don't hit the roller coaster express with a missing piece of track ! :o :o ;D ;D ;)
SO this aint over folks till the UPS fat lady sings with the gun's on my porch ! ;D ;D ;D ;D stay tuned for more of DAN'S RABBIT HOLE HWY ADVENTURES ! ;D ;D ;D
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Man, you’re having a rough patch aren’t you? First the two bad Avengers and now you can’t get DAR to ship. Don’t forget this is Friday the 13th and bad things happen in threes. ;)
I know its kinda crazy ! these guns popped up after the plastic mattel toys Avenger fiasco ...with DAR great reviews ! so I put my seat belt on ,and headed back down the " rabbit hole HWY " then turned down the DAR darkside express way HA ! HA ! then I hit the dark tunnel of ground hog day's ! of insanity ! but knock on wood I think I see a bit of FRIDAY THE 13TH light at the end of this dark tunnel ! Now at this point I hope it doesn't lead to the UPS gun snatchers HWY ! ::) ::) ::) ::) and don't hit the roller coaster express with a missing piece of track ! :o :o ;D ;D ;)
SO this aint over folks till the UPS fat lady sings with the gun's on my porch ! ;D ;D ;D ;D stay tuned for more of DAN'S RABBIT HOLE HWY ADVENTURES ! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks bro for the laugh! Had a rough day and this made me smile!Hahaha
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Man, you’re having a rough patch aren’t you? First the two bad Avengers and now you can’t get DAR to ship. Don’t forget this is Friday the 13th and bad things happen in threes. ;)
I know its kinda crazy ! these guns popped up after the plastic mattel toys Avenger fiasco ...with DAR great reviews ! so I put my seat belt on ,and headed back down the " rabbit hole HWY " then turned down the DAR darkside express way HA ! HA ! then I hit the dark tunnel of ground hog day's ! of insanity ! but knock on wood I think I see a bit of FRIDAY THE 13TH light at the end of this dark tunnel ! Now at this point I hope it doesn't lead to the UPS gun snatchers HWY ! ::) ::) ::) ::) and don't hit the roller coaster express with a missing piece of track ! :o :o ;D ;D ;)
SO this aint over folks till the UPS fat lady sings with the gun's on my porch ! ;D ;D ;D ;D stay tuned for more of DAN'S RABBIT HOLE HWY ADVENTURES ! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks bro for the laugh! Had a rough day and this made me smile!Hahaha
Cool ! glad I could help ;D , Travis when stuff hits the fan in life like this you have to laugh at it so it doesn't drive you insane... ::). I know I /we - some of us haven't had much to smile about the last week or so , SO its time to shake it off reload, and get ready for the next load of B&S that comes at us in this life ... ;)
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True that!!! Water off a ducks back. We still can have fun with our BB guns
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You deserve to get a great shooter Dan. I'm hoping you get one.
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Oh, don't even get me started on this past week's drama.... I actually looked forward to Friday the 13th. I kept a watchful eye on HMMA's D2 portal and the weekend's plan remained at zero production. They had a set back from lack of parts received from Korea that stopped production for 2 days this past week. That normally makes weekend production inevitable but, it never happened and we get to enjoy a rare 2 day weekend.
I got off at 5:00pm yesterday and the first thing I did was turn off my cell phone. It won't get turned back on until Monday morning.
Anyways.... hope it all works out for ya Dan.
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The first slugs that I'll be trying in my Gen2 .25 DAR will be ones that I cast from the NOE 249-39-RF mold, I've already got some sized down to .248 and I pushed one through a Gen1 barrel a fellow member sent me that's basically an unused barrel, hopefully the Gen2's have the same bore size and rifling because I think these will do good from it.
(https://i.imgur.com/6tEQrtO.jpg)
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Good deal Wayne , glad these barrels are not chocked , its slugging the barrel to find correct size ,then testing as usual , that slug design looks to be a good one , and if it works out I will buy 1 of those molds for sure ....
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You deserve to get a great shooter Dan. I'm hoping you get one.
Thanks ... I am crossing my fingers that the barrels are accurate like Dana's testing showed , and it looks like they have all the bugs solved from the 1st gen , and they look to be good quality guns , I just hope they take the customer service part seriously for their sake , and our sake ...
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Dan after what I've seen and heard from Dynamic Air Rifles so far I'd say they're probably more than likely going to have really good customer service unless reason's beyond their control won't allow it.
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Dan after what I've seen and heard from Dynamic Air Rifles so far I'd say they're probably more than likely going to have really good customer service unless reason's beyond their control won't allow it.
That has yet to be seen , my experience has shown just how really bad their customer service is at present , when you tell some one over and over and over that you are going to do something - yet you fail to do it , actions like that do not instill confidence in the consumer ... ::)... so let's hope they get their act together ,and operate in a more appropriate manner ... after all if their product is as good as it's been touted to be , it's to their advantage to give good customer service along with the good product ... ;)
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So who is selling the guns? Is it AimSports? (couldn't find anything on their site) or Dar directly?
Does anyone have contact for Dar? Open on Saturdays?
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So who is selling the guns? Is it AimSports? (couldn't find anything on their site) or Dar directly?
Does anyone have contact for Dar? Open on Saturdays?
Click on their banner above
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True that!!! Water off a ducks back. We still can have fun with our BB guns
Got it.. Thanks! Guess they aren't open on weekends.. :(
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EXTREAMLY POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM DAR !
Ryan needs to get his act together !
I ordered 1 of my gun's .25 last Friday a week ago , early this week I called them because they did not called me to get payment for Fridays order ....once I contacted them by phone and knew my order was in ,and would be processed , I then ordered another gun in .22 then payed for both , I was told at that point the guns would be shipped out that day , and he would send a receipt plus tracking # shortly same day ..
That never happened .......so I sent a message email the next morning , and they emailed me back that they would ship guns ,and send receipt ,and tracking number today ...
That never happened ... again ! :o
.... so I emailed them the next day in the morning ;D , and for the 3rd time .. ;D they said they would ship guns send the tracking # ,and receipt ;) ;) I was thinking this should be my lucky day the 3rd time has to be the time they get it done - right ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
That never happened ! ... again ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so it was yesterday that I emailed them and got no response at all .... I called on the phone this morning ,and Ryan told me they would ship the guns out for sure today ! ;D ;D ;D 1 week later ! ;D ;D ;D
This time it did happen ! ::) ;D ;D { imagine that ;D} tracking ,and shipping receipt was sent /emailed .... checked the tacking # and its not showing up yet in the UPS system yet ... so now lets see if they actually ship the guns , and the tracking number they gave me show this ....
How many of you guys think they will actually ship the guns out today ??? ;D ;D ;D I will give it a 50 /50 chance ;D biased on previous history ,and math ;D ;D ;D ;D
I might be to generous on those chance numbers ! ;D ;D ;D ;)
Whoa! Take it EZ Man.
Mine took a couple of days to ship once the label was created. It will get to you, trust me.
You will be happy with your gun.
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EXTREAMLY POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM DAR !
Ryan needs to get his act together !
I ordered 1 of my gun's .25 last Friday a week ago , early this week I called them because they did not called me to get payment for Fridays order ....once I contacted them by phone and knew my order was in ,and would be processed , I then ordered another gun in .22 then payed for both , I was told at that point the guns would be shipped out that day , and he would send a receipt plus tracking # shortly same day ..
That never happened .......so I sent a message email the next morning , and they emailed me back that they would ship guns ,and send receipt ,and tracking number today ...
That never happened ... again ! :o
.... so I emailed them the next day in the morning ;D , and for the 3rd time .. ;D they said they would ship guns send the tracking # ,and receipt ;) ;) I was thinking this should be my lucky day the 3rd time has to be the time they get it done - right ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
That never happened ! ... again ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D so it was yesterday that I emailed them and got no response at all .... I called on the phone this morning ,and Ryan told me they would ship the guns out for sure today ! ;D ;D ;D 1 week later ! ;D ;D ;D
This time it did happen ! ::) ;D ;D { imagine that ;D} tracking ,and shipping receipt was sent /emailed .... checked the tacking # and its not showing up yet in the UPS system yet ... so now lets see if they actually ship the guns , and the tracking number they gave me show this ....
How many of you guys think they will actually ship the guns out today ??? ;D ;D ;D I will give it a 50 /50 chance ;D biased on previous history ,and math ;D ;D ;D ;D
I might be to generous on those chance numbers ! ;D ;D ;D ;)
Whoa! Take it EZ Man.
Mine took a couple of days to ship once the label was created. It will get to you, trust me.
You will be happy with your gun.
OH I am taking it easy , none of us on here likes to be told by the seller that they will do some thing like provide receipt plus tracking number 3 days in a row ,and then not do that , then after 1 week from ordering I call Ryan he tells me it all got lost in translation ? so if I had not called my guns would not have been shipped because like he said my order was lost in the shuffle/ translation some how ,and was never processed all the way ,and shipped out ...
So my question to you is since you are telling me to take it EZ ::) ;D ... just how long would you have waited to call about this , if you were in my position spending your money ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh ,and by the way now that I did call ,and they figured out the mistake , they finally have sent the guns out , and the tracking number shows both guns in transport on the way .... so we have the lost the order situation solved ... can't wait to see the guns , and shoot them ... ;D ;D ;D
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Dan.... I think as long as you keep those two Avengers in your signature list, you're gonna have bad luck...... lol
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From my personal experience it will be worth the wait Dan!!! Really great guns for the price. I have many mods to do but waiting till more members have guns in hand to share information.
-
Dan.... I think as long as you keep those two Avengers in your signature list, you're gonna have bad luck...... lol
OH snap you are right !
Yes sir ! ... I just changed it .... Thanks for the reminder Bill .... ;)
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From my personal experience it will be worth the wait Dan!!! Really great guns for the price. I have many mods to do but waiting till more members have guns in hand to share information.
Cool ... Travis you are the main reason , along with Dana's review / video that I just decided to go ahead ,and order both DAR .22 and .25 to replace those Mattel plastic Avenger guns , they should have included hot wheels car's with plastic track ... so you had something to play with after the plastic gun's broke down ... is my thought ... ;D ;D ;D ;) { oh am I terrible :-X ;D ;)}
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From my personal experience it will be worth the wait Dan!!! Really great guns for the price. I have many mods to do but waiting till more members have guns in hand to share information.
Cool ... Travis you are the main reason , along with Dana's review / video that I just decided to go ahead ,and order both DAR .22 and .25 to replace those Mattel plastic Avenger guns , they should have included hot wheels car's with plastic track ... so you had something to play with after the plastic gun's broke down ... is my thought ... ;D ;D ;D ;) { oh am I terrible :-X ;D ;)}
Hey Dan, with your luck lately I predict your DAR’s will arrive Super quick and Super early! (except they’ll be in Washington, DC)! ;D ;D
-
Does anyone have chrony and (fpe) results from the .25? Thinking about a new yote tool.
-
Does anyone have chrony and (fpe) results from the .25? Thinking about a new yote tool.
Dana has results on his review video , and shows you just about every aspect of the gun ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WuGfUserE&t=701s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WuGfUserE&t=701s)
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Does anyone have chrony and (fpe) results from the .25? Thinking about a new yote tool.
Dana has results on his review video , and shows you just about every aspect of the gun ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WuGfUserE&t=701s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WuGfUserE&t=701s)
Nothing against Dana, but I'm more interested in your review. I always did like the plastic racetracks, too.
-
What about slugs out of the .25?? I’m looking for a rifle & cant make my mind up. I really want a rifle to shoot slugs out of.
-
I shot a selection of Nicks slugs out of the pre released test gun I had.
I was impressed.
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My DAR guns should be here tomorrow according to tracking info , I charged up 2 = 88cft tanks ,and 2 = 44 cft tanks for mobile use , and I just checked the yellow 500 cft steel dot tank its topped of 4500 psi so I got enough air for testing the guns out ... ;D ;D maybe they will get here in time to get some test # in tomorrow if not the next day ...
-
So, you guys that have these really like them?
Hunter
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My .22 cal arrived late yesterday. I shot 2 magazines through it before it got too dark to shoot. Still need to clean the barrel and finish zeroing it in, but did air it up and it held air overnight. So far, so good!
-
Thanks Paul!
Hunter
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My .22 cal arrived late yesterday. I shot 2 magazines through it before it got too dark to shoot. Still need to clean the barrel and finish zeroing it in, but did air it up and it held air overnight. So far, so good!
Well that is good news as I am sitting here waiting for the UPS guy LOL ! I am going to test the power adjustments out back ,and forth to make sure things work correctly at different settings ... this is what messed up with the Avenger as soon as I started adjusting things back and forth that's when the problems with the reg ,and hammer spring adjuster reared their ugly head , and is why I sent both guns back for refund ....
and I have to tell you guys Randy at RL air guns supply was very good to deal with he shipped out the same day he said he would , and paid to have the guns shipped back to him when the problems came up , he told me he was going to keep those 2 guns I sent back for himself ,and try to fix them because of how accurate they were in my test ....
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Here’s 2 magazines over the Chrony with 15.89 grain Hades. This was done before cleaning the barrel and it’s already starting to group in about. ½” ragged hole.
Shot count: 20
Low: 921
Hi: 939
Avg: 933
Spread: 18
STD Dev: 5.3
921
928
937
939
939
939
932
930
928
937
937
937
937
932
928
928
928
926
935
937
I did clean the barrel and there was a good bit of gunk in the barrel. I’ll shoot some more later today to see if they tightened up any.
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Here’s 2 magazines over the Chrony with 15.89 grain Hades. This was done before cleaning the barrel and it’s already starting to group in about. ½” ragged hole.
Shot count: 20
Low: 921
Hi: 939
Avg: 933
Spread: 18
STD Dev: 5.3
921
928
937
939
939
939
932
930
928
937
937
937
937
932
928
928
928
926
935
937
I did clean the barrel and there was a good bit of gunk in the barrel. I’ll shoot some more later today to see if they tightened up any.
Almost exactly what I got!
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Here’s 2 magazines over the Chrony with 15.89 grain Hades. This was done before cleaning the barrel and it’s already starting to group in about. ½” ragged hole.
Shot count: 20
Low: 921
Hi: 939
Avg: 933
Spread: 18
STD Dev: 5.3
921
928
937
939
939
939
932
930
928
937
937
937
937
932
928
928
928
926
935
937
I did clean the barrel and there was a good bit of gunk in the barrel. I’ll shoot some more later today to see if they tightened up any.
How many yards were you shooting from Paul ?
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That’s a nice start. A sub-2% ES right out of the box with no adjustments. That suggests to me they are actually setting the hammer spring tension to the velocity knee. The pre-production one I tested was close but I figured it was sheer coincidence. If you want to confirm, it’s super easy to adjust the hammer spring, just turn the disc at the back of the receiver.
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That was 37 yards. I’ll post some picture of the groups later.
This is a 10 shot string using the 18.13 grain JSBs.
Shot count: 10
Low: 888
Hi: 895
Avg: 893
Spread: 7
STD Dev: 2.4
895
895
895
895
891
895
893
893
891
888
So far the JSB 15.89, 18.13 grains are grouping pretty well. The 15.89 hades are grouping well also.
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That’s a nice start. A sub-2% ES right out of the box with no adjustments. That suggests to me they are actually setting the hammer spring tension to the velocity knee. The pre-production one I tested was close but I figured it was sheer coincidence. If you want to confirm, it’s super easy to adjust the hammer spring, just turn the disc at the back of the receiver.
They should have notched the stock at the back of the receiver, it would have made it a lot easier to adjust. If I refinish the stock later on, I may do that.
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Sounds good, and mine likes all 3 of the JSBs you mentioned as well.
Yeah it would be nice to have access to the HST without taking it out of the stock, but at the same time it’s a once and done kind of thing so I can see why they didn’t carve it out.
-
loves the Hades as well and I agree set it once and your done.
-
Paul/Jason
When to mention the hammer spring adjustment wheel/disc,
is it similar to the Sentry type of adjustment?
I am on the fence and tipping towards the DAR, in 177 caliber............. ;)
Thank,
Don
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I shot a selection of Nicks slugs out of the pre released test gun I had.
I was impressed.
It did not like the FX hybrid slugs.
-
Mine in .177 arrived, tossed a UTG red dot on it and did a quick test for function at 10 yards, with 13.xx gr. JSB, in my immediate opinion I like it better than my fine Marauder that cost more.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7567)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7568)
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This was done before cleaning the barrel and it’s already starting to group in about. ½” ragged hole.
Range?
I ask because I have taken the head off a tiny lizard with a head no bigger then a pellet at 43 yards with a DAR II.
Nervous trigger was there since it was in his back yard.
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I shot a selection of Nicks slugs out of the pre released test gun I had.
I was impressed.
It did not like the FX hybrid slugs.
Those pretty much are a waste of my time. That's why you dumped them on me!
-
This was done before cleaning the barrel and it’s already starting to group in about. ½” ragged hole.
Range?
I ask because I have taken the head off a tiny lizard with a head no bigger then a pellet at 43 yards with a DAR II.
Nervous trigger was there since it was in his back yard.
I think he answered it here........37yds
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156046968#msg156046968 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156046968#msg156046968)
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Yeah. I missed that posting.
::)
So 37 yards right out of the box brand new, 1/2" group?
Not bad!
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I am sitting here just itching all over waiting for the brown dressed santa claus {UPS guy} to deliver 2 boxes with 2 new DAR guns inside them ! ;D .22 and a .25 it could be at any time ! now ! it seems like they usually get here 3 to 4 but they have till 9 to show up .... ::).. :P... ;D ;D
So I have the scopes ready and test fit my thin separate dovetail to pic adapter mounts looks to be good to go .. ... I also finished filling up the rest of my scba tanks running the shoe box for the last 2 days so I have enough air to shoot for quite a while ...
-
I am glad to see reports of consistently good grouping across several guns now.
This makes me feel like my efforts in getting this gun up to par over the past couple of years was worth all the headaches.
Happy to see this so far.
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I am glad to see reports of consistently good grouping across several guns now.
This makes me feel like my efforts in getting this gun up to par over the past couple of years was worth all the headaches.
Happy to see this so far.
Well Ron.
I had a chance many did not have! I shot something like 3 or 4 at your place in Arizona.
That included modded and totally stock versions if you recall.
On a job down south, I made a special trip to visit Jason and shoot his DAR II that he worked on.
Then I got home and finally got a .25 sent to test.
So I shot them in many different configurations or states of testing. In many different areas!
The only one that was REALLY bad? That stock DAR II with the crappy barrel that you told me was the hold up.
-
Here's a brief video I did with a 10 shot string shooting the 18.13 grain JSB's at 37 yards. The average velocity was just under 900 FPS. This was filmed with my iPhone, so I apologize for the how jerky it seems. I also doubled the speed on the shooting segment to save time, I wasn't actually shooting that fast!
https://youtu.be/LHtWsCnKPmU
Below are some 10 shot groups. The first picture show (from left to right) Usb 15.18, Hades 15.89 and JSB 18.13 grain pellets.
The second picture of the target that was shot in the video. The video is backwards due to the prism in the Side-Shot phone mount. The very first shot was the flyer than hit to the right of the rest of the group.
-
looks great and shoots pretty accurate for those fast shots you took Paul ....
-
My .25 is about 40 miles north of me right now in Wyoming Mi. It was scheduled for tomorrow so I'm sure that it'll be here. I'll be out in the woods with it Friday morning shooting my cast 26 grain Hunters from it.
-
Look what the DAR showed up ! ... ;D ;D ;D ;D you know what ? ... the wood stocks look much better than I thought they would ! ... VERY WOOD NICE ! very impressed so far ... ;D ;D ;D
-
Guys
Just a suggestion.
In my experience it is highly suggested to throughly clean the barrel first thing right out of the box, Before firing your first shot.
There is a lot of oils in the barrels from manufacturing (and possible grit).
Clean your barrels and then have fun shooting.
And remember, your new barrels are not even "seasoned well" until maybe 150-200 shots
Your groups should improve even more once fully seasoned.
After that, there is no need to clean them again until accuracy (or) grouping starts to suffer.
I have well over 2500 shots thru barrels that have only had the first cleaning, and I can still confidently take headshots on squirrels and rabbits at 75-100 yds.
-
Guys
Just a suggestion.
In my experience it is highly suggested to throughly clean the barrel first thing right out of the box, Before firing your first shot.
There is a lot of oils in the barrels from manufacturing (and possible grit).
Clean your barrels and then have fun shooting.
And remember, your new barrels are not even "seasoned well" until maybe 150-200 shots
Your groups should improve even more once fully seasoned.
After that, there is no need to clean them again until accuracy (or) grouping starts to suffer.
I have well over 2500 shots thru barrels that have only had the first cleaning, and I can still confidently take headshots on squirrels and rabbits at 75-100 yds.
Ron thank you for putting all your time in to the R&D of these guns , it looks like its going to pay off for all of us that buy them ... if they shoot as good as everything else appears to be - we have a winner ! ... in the low cost air guns is my thinking , it has some very nice features for the price ... GREAT JOB ! ;D
I cleaned the barrel's on both .22 ,and .25 mounted scopes with pic rail adapters , so we are ready to do some 50 yard testing tomorrow morning at some time ...
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Dan I was under the impression that these guns came with 2 magazines ??? That's only what someone was saying earlier in this thread, well by the looks of it they sent me one mag in a plastic package and another one that wasn't, the only thing I can think is they must only ship with one mag unless you order an extra like I did ???
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Wayne, I asked Ryan about the magazines when he called me for payment. Some of the early shipments (those who requested a replacement vice a refund back when they were recalled) got 2, but they only ship with one. I went ahead and ordered an extra with mine.
-
Well I just did ten shots over the chrony with mine, I didn't quite have it up to 3K however it was about 200 bar when I started. It's averaging a little over 50fpe which is more than enough, I will be turning the reg down on it because I'd rather get about 45fpe and that will give me closer to 20 shots without a refill. I'll take it out in the morning tomorrow and sight it in at about 30 yards for starters.
-
Wayne, what ammo were you using to achieve the 50fpe?
-
How does the DAR Gen 2 .22 caliber compare to the Sentry 705-9 .22 caliber?
-
Well I just did ten shots over the chrony with mine, I didn't quite have it up to 3K however it was about 200 bar when I started. It's averaging a little over 50fpe which is more than enough, I will be turning the reg down on it because I'd rather get about 45fpe and that will give me closer to 20 shots without a refill. I'll take it out in the morning tomorrow and sight it in at about 30 yards for starters.
I have mine apart reg is easy to take out and snap ring pliers and flat blade screwdriver to take apart.
-
Wayne, if memory serves, my .25 was giving 34 shots at 45fpe with the 34gr JSBs. Nothing special done to it. Just set the hammer spring tension to the velocity knee so you should end up with far more than 20 shots.
-
Wayne, what ammo were you using to achieve the 50fpe?
I was using my cast 26grain NOE Hunters. When I go out with it I'm going to sight it in with some of the Magnum Hunters I have that are 34.5 grain.
here's the 10 shot string
1. 939.6fps
2. 931.0fps
3. 933.8fps
4. 945.7fps
5. 933.8fps
6. 929.7fps
7. 923.5fps
8. 926.3fps
9. 938.5fps
10. 932.9fps
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These DAR gen II are looking real good,
...the wood stock is such a plus vs the competition at the same price range.
I didnt modify your post at all I hit modify instead of quote...
-
These DAR gen II are looking real good,
...the wood stock is such a plus vs the competition at the same price range.
Just buy one already.
-
These DAR gen II are looking real good,
...the wood stock is such a plus vs the competition at the same price range.
Just buy one already.
Nope :) :) I don't need one nor I like regulated guns,.....but that don't stop me from praising guns that I'm not planning to get,
It makes me laugh when people only praise or talk about the guns they have like every other one isn't worthy.
-
These DAR gen II are looking real good,
...the wood stock is such a plus vs the competition at the same price range.
Just buy one already.
Nope :) :) I don't need one nor I like regulated guns,.....but that don't stop me from praising guns that I'm not planning to get,
It makes me laugh when people only praise or talk about the guns they have like every other one isn't worthy.
I can assure you the reg is super easy to remove. I dont plan on reinstalling mine.
-
How many shots is everyone averaging in .22?
And is there any room for improvement in efficiency? I e transfer path, lighter hammer? Choke points.
Going to pick one up i I think and tune for 30fpe.
-
I just did a 13 shot string over the chrony with my 36.5 grain NOE slugs
1. 814.3 53.75 7. 810.9 53.30
2. 807.5 52.86 8. 809.5 53.12
3. 809.6 53.13 9. 816.8 54.18
4. 810.8 53.29 10. 819.5 54.44
5. 805.7 52.62 11. 811.3 53.35
6. 804.9 52.52 12. 811.1 53.33
13. 789.4 50.51
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These DAR gen II are looking real good,
...the wood stock is such a plus vs the competition at the same price range.
Just buy one already.
Nope :) :) I don't need one nor I like regulated guns,.....but that don't stop me from praising guns that I'm not planning to get,
It makes me laugh when people only praise or talk about the guns they have like every other one isn't worthy.
I can assure you the reg is super easy to remove. I dont plan on reinstalling mine.
That is great !!!
I think every brand should make the Regulator removable.
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I just did a 13 shot string over the chrony with my 36.5 grain NOE slugs
1. 814.3 53.75 7. 810.9 53.30
2. 807.5 52.86 8. 809.5 53.12
3. 809.6 53.13 9. 816.8 54.18
4. 810.8 53.29 10. 819.5 54.44
5. 805.7 52.62 11. 811.3 53.35
6. 804.9 52.52 12. 811.1 53.33
13. 789.4 50.51
Wayne how accurate were these ? the NOE 26 hunters I tried today worked well , and will get better with a 100 more or so shots to get the barrel seasoned up a bit ... these shots were at 50 yards dime size circle ...
-
Maybe I've just missed it, at what psi does it go off the reg?
-
I just did a 13 shot string over the chrony with my 36.5 grain NOE slugs
1. 814.3 53.75 7. 810.9 53.30
2. 807.5 52.86 8. 809.5 53.12
3. 809.6 53.13 9. 816.8 54.18
4. 810.8 53.29 10. 819.5 54.44
5. 805.7 52.62 11. 811.3 53.35
6. 804.9 52.52 12. 811.1 53.33
13. 789.4 50.51
Wayne how accurate were these ? the NOE 26 hunters I tried today worked well , and will get better with a 100 more or so shots to get the barrel seasoned up a bit ... these shots were at 50 yards dime size circle ...
I still haven't mounted a scope on it yet, thinking about buying another one of the Centerpoints like I put on my Avenger, I think that's a nice scope for sure and it would do the DAR justice. I may just wait til I get what I want for it before I shoot it at anything.
-
Guys
What does the hammer spring adjustment look like?
Is it similar to the Sentry?
Thanks,
Don
-
Guys
What does the hammer spring adjustment look like?
Is it similar to the Sentry?
Thanks,
Don
It's a threaded plug at the back of the breech, you need to remove the stock to access it and use a spanner wrench to adjust it.
-
Thanks Paul
For that info............... ;)
To make it easier to adjust the hammer spring, would you need to drill a hole AKA Gentry style for access?
Tia,
Don
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Hey Back Roads
Any more info on your 17 cal DAR?
Anyone else have a 17 cal DAR they would care to give their info on?
Thanks,
Don
-
Insanity have you shot your DAR without the regulator yet, just wondering about your thoughts on the gun overall?
-
Thanks Paul
For that info............... ;)
To make it easier to adjust the hammer spring, would you need to drill a hole AKA Gentry style for access?
Tia,
Don
If the threaded plug had a hex head or even a slot, I'd say yes, but since it's just 2 dimples that require a spanner type adjuster, it would have to be a pretty good chunk of wood carved off the back of the stock to allow enough access. The stock is only held on with 1 bolt, so it's not hard to remove to adjust the hammer spring tension.
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My DAR .25 gen2 is on my sh%t list, the regulator on it was set way too high, I loosened the bleed screw to degas it, adjusted the regulator on it reassembled, aired it up and it was leaking like a sieve through the bleed screw not I need to get it back out but it's stripped out and I need a screw extractor to get it out, got some ordered. Beware of working on these guns because as of now I'm not a fan at all, that might change once I get it sealed up, I'll just plug it up when I reassemble it with some teflon tape. What a hunk of junk it's turning out to be.
-
Bummer, sorry to hear that Wayne, hope you can get it sorted out. I'm waiting to get my action back from Duy for my Liberty, he's working on the valve and poppet for me.
-
Hey Back Roads
Any more info on your 17 cal DAR?
Anyone else have a 17 cal DAR they would care to give their info on?
Thanks,
Don
Actually I am taking part of the day off from deer hunting and plan on cleaning the barrel, and getting some crony numbers on it today.
Will post ASAP.
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My DAR .25 gen2 is on my sh%t list, the regulator on it was set way too high, I loosened the bleed screw to degas it, adjusted the regulator on it reassembled, aired it up and it was leaking like a sieve through the bleed screw not I need to get it back out but it's stripped out and I need a screw extractor to get it out, got some ordered. Beware of working on these guns because as of now I'm not a fan at all, that might change once I get it sealed up, I'll just plug it up when I reassemble it with some teflon tape. What a hunk of junk it's turning out to be.
That sounds more like the Gen 1, I had a couple screws that were stripped on those. I have not degassed mine, but thanks for the heads up, I will definitely proceed with caution if I need to. I hope you get it worked out.
-
Paul I couldn't believe how tight it was to begin with, the Gen 1's were never that tight.
-
Wayne, if you're going to plug the threads, don't use PTFE tape. It will not develop a seal on straight threads, only tapered (NPT) threads.
Use either threadlocker or epoxy. Load some into both the male threads and female threads so they are both fully wetted, then install the grub screw.
-
Jason I noticed that they're using thread locker on a lot of stuff on them now. The poppet on the new ones seals against brass rather than the coated aluminum. There are a lot of changes and parts for these guns definitely won't work on the Gen1's. Lot of differences on the Gen2's. The poppet is wider in diameter too than the Gen1.
-
Hey Back Roads
Any more info on your 17 cal DAR?
Anyone else have a 17 cal DAR they would care to give their info on?
Thanks,
Don
Actually I am taking part of the day off from deer hunting and plan on cleaning the barrel, and getting some crony numbers on it today.
Will post ASAP.
OK cleaned & polished the barrel, and gave it a coating of paste wax. Took some 10 fouling shots and the darn thing started grouping like a laser. JSB 13.xx pellets were doing 855 - 870 FPS, the NSA 12.5 slugs were a consistent 858 - 860 FPS 52 shots with 5 FPS extreme spread and laser accurate to top things off. I get 4 - 12 shot mags on the reg.
From what I can tell it drops off the reg 1250 bar, I get a 12 FPS drop when it goes off reg, so IMO not a bad reg setting for my use.
-
Since sometimes you can't tell if there is thread locker on many guns.. Maybe a market for soldering iron, screw driver and hex head bits...
-
Thanks Paul
For that info............... ;)
To make it easier to adjust the hammer spring, would you need to drill a hole AKA Gentry style for access?
Tia,
Don
If the threaded plug had a hex head or even a slot, I'd say yes, but since it's just 2 dimples that require a spanner type adjuster, it would have to be a pretty good chunk of wood carved off the back of the stock to allow enough access. The stock is only held on with 1 bolt, so it's not hard to remove to adjust the hammer spring tension.
Paul ... maybe this 1 would work if the pins are the right size ... ,and I wonder if it holds its position well ?
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html)
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My DAR .25 gen2 is on my sh%t list, the regulator on it was set way too high, I loosened the bleed screw to degas it, adjusted the regulator on it reassembled, aired it up and it was leaking like a sieve through the bleed screw not I need to get it back out but it's stripped out and I need a screw extractor to get it out, got some ordered. Beware of working on these guns because as of now I'm not a fan at all, that might change once I get it sealed up, I'll just plug it up when I reassemble it with some teflon tape. What a hunk of junk it's turning out to be.
Sorry to hear this , sounds like what happened to me with the Avenger guns , as soon as I started adjusting things a couple times the gun's developed problems , different problems than you are having , but none the less China ! China ! I don't know what do you do ? ... I think I might just adjust the hammer spring if I need to , and hold off on the reg ... ;) on both my DAR guns .. I notice in the manual there is nothing on the hammer spring or the regulator , I wonder why not ? ....
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Dan the first thing I did was backing out the hammer all the way with no difference, last adjustment on velocity was about 800 fps so it's close.
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Thanks Paul
For that info............... ;)
To make it easier to adjust the hammer spring, would you need to drill a hole AKA Gentry style for access?
Tia,
Don
If the threaded plug had a hex head or even a slot, I'd say yes, but since it's just 2 dimples that require a spanner type adjuster, it would have to be a pretty good chunk of wood carved off the back of the stock to allow enough access. The stock is only held on with 1 bolt, so it's not hard to remove to adjust the hammer spring tension.
Paul ... maybe this 1 would work if the pins are the right size ... ,and I wonder if it holds its position well ?
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html)
Dan, This is what I used and it did the job:
https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-ring-pliers-with-interchangeable-heads-63845.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-ring-pliers-with-interchangeable-heads-63845.html)
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Thanks Paul
For that info............... ;)
To make it easier to adjust the hammer spring, would you need to drill a hole AKA Gentry style for access?
Tia,
Don
If the threaded plug had a hex head or even a slot, I'd say yes, but since it's just 2 dimples that require a spanner type adjuster, it would have to be a pretty good chunk of wood carved off the back of the stock to allow enough access. The stock is only held on with 1 bolt, so it's not hard to remove to adjust the hammer spring tension.
Paul ... maybe this 1 would work if the pins are the right size ... ,and I wonder if it holds its position well ?
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html)
Dan, This is what I used and it did the job:
https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-ring-pliers-with-interchangeable-heads-63845.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-ring-pliers-with-interchangeable-heads-63845.html)
Cool .... I have a pair of those , I just bought a NOE 20 g hunter mold , I am thinking this will be a good pellet to use in my .22 as Wayne has had great results , and both of us had good results with the NOE .25 26G hunter ...
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Insanity have you shot your DAR without the regulator yet, just wondering about your thoughts on the gun overall?
I have not had a chance to put it back together yet.
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I assume you have found a solid way to block off the vent hole in the air tube.
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I assume you have found a solid way to block off the vent hole in the air tube.
FWIW I wouldn't be inclined to plug it directly. The more certain DIY approach would be to replace the spring with flat washers so the regulator's valve seat will always remain open. However regulators generally have small orifices so while that approach gets you full pressure to the valve, it does not make the entire air tube a large plenum capable of feeding the valve during the millisecond or so the valve is knocked open. To get that, you'll have to get more aggressive and drill out the valve seat. No going back to regulated once you do that...
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BLACK FRIDAY SALE!!!! Get your DAR quick!!!
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Yeah buy it like you stole it cause... trust me if you buy it- you did at $280 ... ;D ;D ;D plus it gives you a few extra bucks for extra mags at $19.99 a piece ... ;D ;)
.22 shots in pic from my DAR 1hour ago ! :o.... 3 shot groups ...far left upper lower out of circle shots were sight in shots ,then star labeled shot was me messing up but still very close for 50 yards .. with 21.14 baracuda's from left to right first 3 circle's then I switched to super cheap crosman 14.3g hollow point wally world bought ammo for the the 2 far right circles that are smaller than a dime ! ... never had a gun shoot that cheap stuff so dead accurate ,and it is so consistent with that cheap ammo it is insane ! Tac's are right there proof that my DAR .22 IS A TAC DRIVER !
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Well, I guess that Black Friday promo was just what I needed to shove me over the edge.
With Betty Lou's blessing, I placed my order this morning. She and I normally get something each of us want for Christmas with a $400 limit. We use the $1200 holiday bonus check I get from work. We bank or pay bills ahead with the remaining $400.
I ordered the .25 and 2 spare mags.
Got my e-mail conformation and now waiting for the phone call to arrange payment.
I do love my AV Avenger but, I'm a sucker for nice wood and metal.
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Dan those are great groups. I just ordered a 22.
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I started out looking at the Avenger but everybody was encouraging me to look at the DAR. Now I'm leaning hard toward the DAR in .25. It's coming down to a choice between the DAR or an Umarex Origin. Good reasons to pick either of them. I'm signing on here to see how this thread develops. Gonna buy one or the other soon.
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I bit the bullet, too... you folks are true enablers!
;D
My Avenger never ceases to amaze me for accuracy and power but I am going to see how this DAR works out.
The Avenger I have throws just about any slug I can put in it very wildly...it only shoots well with pellets. I've tried about anything I can think of to get it working. no dice.
After seeing/reading what some have posted, I am hopeful this DAR shoots slugs well.
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This is for the few of you with these already....
how about a few pictures of the guts of this thing?
Without the rifle in hand, I have a hard time picturing what you all are speaking of about the regulator and trigger.
When mine gets here I will surely post some pictures if no one else has.
Happy Thanksgiving to All Y'all!
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The barrel on the Avenger is choked and that’s seldom good for shooting slugs. I thought it was a peculiar design decision, given the high fill pressure otherwise makes it a good candidate for hopping on the slug bandwagon.
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Hey Ron, jump back in here a minute....
During y'all's redevelopment (so to speak) of the Gen II, did y'all do any slug testing, particularly in .25? And if so, can you share some results?
Brand?
Type?
Weight?
Thanks
Input from others welcome as well.
I have a sample pak of each weight of the NSA slugs and I will share my findings.
BTW Jason, I was very surprised how well the Avenger shot them, being choked and all.
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I havent been able to go out farther than 25 yds with my 25 and an indoor bullet trap gracious it smacks the &^^& out of it! Cleaned it and run 20 shots threw it ! As others have seen VERY accurate
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Hey Ron, jump back in here a minute....
During y'all's redevelopment (so to speak) of the Gen II, did y'all do any slug testing, particularly in .25? And if so, can you share some results?
Brand?
Type?
Weight?
Thanks
I ran Nick's .25 slugs through mine.
Didn't take pictures but I was very happy with the results.
Being the regulator seems to be set high it preferred the heavier slugs.
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Add another one to the group................ ::)
I fell off the fence, or maybe I was pushed off by you enabler's...............Thanks for the push............ I think. ;D
I'll be ordering a DAR 177 + 2 extra mags, might as well spend my rat funds, only have $310 left,
since I can't leave the house now!
I might as well take another step into the Black Rabbit hole, as I can't sing or dance............. ::)
Tia,
Don
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And me... ??? Didn't need a new airgun, but hey, it is almost Christmas, and it is getting great reviews, and it is a great price, and it is Black Friday, and it is hunting season... did I forget anything?
Got a .25 cal on the way!
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Dan those are great groups. I just ordered a 22.
Scott ... the DAR .22 is one sweet gun ! I have not bought a .22 in a long time until a few months back I bought a Avenger in both .22 and .25 both of those guns had design issues and were returned , then the DAR guns became available with great reviews from guys on this forum that had been testing the gen2 DAR for months ... so i decided to just get both .22 ,and .25 to replace the Avengers that did not work out ...
The DAR ,22 ,and the .25 that I have are both so far fantastic rifles - for the price they can't be beat ,
The big surprise out of these 2 was the .22 and shooting that cheap ammo so good in the gun I received it actually shoots that cheap crosman hollow point ammo as good as the .25 shoots JSB 25.39 ... I was shocked at the results I have never had or seen a .22 that shoots that ammo that pin point , I tried 21.14 baracuda's and I got the same results pin point accurate ! then i tried jsb match jumbo heavy that I had several tins of from years ago , and you guessed it these were pin point also making hole throw hole shots possible out of my .22 DAR with all 3 of these pellets ! ...
Very impressed with the metal/wood construction / the aluminum clips are AWSOME ! / Stock is really nice for this price , in fact pretty decent for a gun that cost $600 or more / side lever on the .22 and the trigger once adjusted are very good ! ... the .25 is a little stiffer do to the stronger hammer spring ,but noting to worry about ... a small dab of grease on trigger mech that clicks in to the hammer when cocked helps a lot to smooth the trigger out , I worked the trigger cycling it about 300 times holding on to the cocking lever so as not to fire the gun by not allowing the hammer to move forward , and after doing this break in the triggers are a lot better /smoother pulling ...
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My brother Mark was shooting my DAR guns yesterday at the Boom Town thanksgiving shoot out , he liked the guns so much , he just ordered the .22 with 2 extra mags ... ;D this will be his first pcp ... in fact he told me he wants a .22 and a .25 and a .30 These DAR guns sent him down the rabbit hole with the rest of us ! ... ;D... ;)
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And me... ??? Didn't need a new airgun, but hey, it is almost Christmas, and it is getting great reviews, and it is a great price, and it is Black Friday, and it is hunting season... did I forget anything?
Got a .25 cal on the way!
Sold! .25 ordered here too. I am a pushover for wood stocks, then a sidelever, aluminum tube, etc, $20 off AND free shipping to Hawaii, couldn't pass it up. Enablers!!
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Seems a very good gun for the price indeed, and when you get free shipping to Hawaii you gotta jump on it immediately :)
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Seems a very good gun for the price indeed, and when you get free shipping to Hawaii you gotta jump on it immediately :)
Yes sir! Really dont need another gun but.... Hows the surf, Manny?
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Seems a very good gun for the price indeed, and when you get free shipping to Hawaii you gotta jump on it immediately :)
Yes sir! Really dont need another gun but.... Hows the surf, Manny?
Wind has been junk the past couple weeks, but October and half November was spectacular with those light winds :)
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Couple of pics of my DAR after I sanded the stock down and reshaped it a little. Still got to finish the but pad and add a couple 10 more coats of Truoil.
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Couple of pics of my DAR after I sanded the stock down and reshaped it a little. Still got to finish the but pad and add a couple 10 more coats of Truoil.
Nice work! Very pretty stock! To get the best results from true oil, I always wet sand the final coat. It looks like a mirror afterwards.
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Pretty rifle, good proportions.
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Pretty rifle, good proportions.
Did you order one Manny?
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Pretty rifle, good proportions.
Did you order one Manny?
Nope, not a rifle I need even if I can still appreciate it.
Not adding any Airguns I'm set to cover my needs,....spending money on firearms nowadays :) :) :)
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Nice looking grain on that wood, Jay!
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So...... tempting.......................
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So...... tempting.......................
here I will temp you some more ! .. ;D
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That will be enough of that Dan. My label has been created sence the 24th. I just need them to ship the darn thing. Im getting a itchy trigger firger!
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That will be enough of that Dan. My label has been created sence the 24th. I just need them to ship the darn thing. Im getting a itchy trigger firger!
Wow they need to send you that gun ,and call my brother , and take care of his order for a .22 ...
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Wonder if they got slammed with Black Friday orders? I placed an order early Friday morning and still haven't received a call for payment (which is a pretty outdated way of doing business, imo). They seem to take a while to process orders and ship out, which is strange since they are only selling one rifle. Is this just some dude selling rifles in his spare time out of his garage or something? Reminds me of trying to order from mrodair a few years ago...
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Just off phone with Ryan for payment and looks like they will honor the free shipping! That is a big deal for us out here in the islands. He stated it would go out fairly quickly as they had a few .25's that passed testing and were ready to be shipped.
Scope shoppin' I will go!
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These seem almost to good to be true.
Can somebody tell me what the weight of a .22 caliber gun weighs without a scope?
And how is the side-lever cocking? Smooth?
Will regular size Predator PolyMags fit in the .22 magazine?
And has anybody tried PolyMags to see how well they do?
Thanks
Ray
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These seem almost to good to be true.
Can somebody tell me what the weight of a .22 caliber gun weighs without a scope?
And how is the side-lever cocking? Smooth?
Will regular size Predator PolyMags fit in the .22 magazine?
And has anybody tried PolyMags to see how well they do?
Thanks
Ray
I looked at the specification images on the website...the .25 says it is 6.7 lbs. .177 and .22 say 0 lbs in the rifle unloaded weight column...
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Pretty rifle, good proportions.
I agree! Nice lines and light. Its really a carbine. Very short and stout.
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These really have my interest piqued. As strange of a request as it may be, does anyone know how either the .177 or .22 shoots accuracy wise at 30-50 yards if turned down to roughly 12fpe and what the shot count may look like? I had some houses pop up behind me so I've been self-imposing a 12fpe limit. I only punch paper so accuracy trumps power for me.
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I ordered a .177 on the 26th. Got a call this morning for payment and received an email this evening at 5pm that my rifle has shipped ;D Can't wait!!! I have a discovery 4-14 x 44 on the way as well to top it off... :o
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I ordered a .177 on the 26th. Got a call this morning for payment and received an email this evening at 5pm that my rifle has shipped ;D Can't wait!!! I have a discovery 4-14 x 44 on the way as well to top it off... :o
Awesome! Got a call and shipping label created notification today too AND I just ordered a Discovery VT-Z 4-16x50SF FFP, then I checked this post...almost in parallel, except mine hasn't shipped.. ;)
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These really have my interest piqued. As strange of a request as it may be, does anyone know how either the .177 or .22 shoots accuracy wise at 30-50 yards if turned down to roughly 12fpe and what the shot count may look like? I had some houses pop up behind me so I've been self-imposing a 12fpe limit. I only punch paper so accuracy trumps power for me.
I have the DAR .22....shooting JSB 15.9 gr at 912 FPS...really all you need is a good sound back stop. Or, as you say, de-tune but without a good backstop your concern will not go away.
https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/IMG2429.jpg
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My brothers gun is shipping out ... he talked to Ryan this morning , after he shot my DAR .22 at thanksgiving he had to have one ... ;D
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I got my phone call yesterday (ordered on Black Friday) and received the shipping notice with tracking number late yesterday afternoon. Delivery scheduled Tuesday the 8th.
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These seem almost to good to be true.
Can somebody tell me what the weight of a .22 caliber gun weighs without a scope?
And how is the side-lever cocking? Smooth?
Will regular size Predator PolyMags fit in the .22 magazine?
And has anybody tried PolyMags to see how well they do?
Thanks
Ray
My .22 weighs 6.8 almost 6.9Lbs
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My brothers gun is shipping out ... he talked to Ryan this morning , after he shot my DAR .22 at thanksgiving he had to have one ... ;D
What a cool setup you have there! Awesome photo.
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My brothers gun is shipping out ... he talked to Ryan this morning , after he shot my DAR .22 at thanksgiving he had to have one ... ;D
Yeah Dan what manner of place is that? Looks like a resort or model of a small town with the Jail and all. And are those geese real? What you guys shooting at anyway? What a setup!
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I had cancelled my DAR .25 order last week because the RV needed a new fridge. After the replacement was done it became apparent that there was enough left in the budget to go ahead with the DAR .25.
I placed the order for the .25 and two extra mags at around 6:30 this morning. At around 9:30am I received a call from Ryan. We completed the process and the order was placed and confirmed. At 10:55 I got the e-mail that the gun had been shipped along with tracking number. Tracking is not available at UPS yet, probably because they haven't picked the package up yet.
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Mine on the way too....supposed to be here Monday ;D
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Ryan said they had a surplus of .25 already quality checked and ready to ship. I didn't ask about the other calibers.
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finally got my tracking number last night, looking forward to next Wednesday.
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It's too bad, that someone didn't start a poll as to what caliber they ordered for the DAT Gen 2 series........... ;)
So far I have the following tally....... ::) But a lot of the guys don't mention the caliber etc
17 cal = 3
22 cal = 5
25 cal = 6
Tia,
Don
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My .177 is supposed to arrive tomorrow. Received my discovery scope yesterday. Can anyone guess what I'll be doing this weekend!!! ;D ::)
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For the hunters out there that appreciate the confidence of the first shot being on target, here's a single cold shot from each my .22 and .25 after sitting idle for a week:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7594)
The circles are the size of an aspirin. I can assure you I was disappointed that I missed with the .25 because I know I blew the follow through but I want to present an honest example. However even with the slip-up, that's still a dead trash panda.
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The DAR looks like brilliant value for money. Expecting easy adjustable tuning would seem like expecting too much. I emailed DAR to ask about detuning the .177 for basement target use. I got this reply from Randy M:
it is possible to tune your regulator for your desired use. I must also inform you that tuning the regulator requires you to dissemble the air reservoir. Thus voiding your year warranty.
He did not mention reducing hammer spring tension, or any other way of reducing FPE. I presume that also exists, but may not be sufficient, without a regulator adjustment, to reach perhaps 12 FPE.
Does anyone have info about how easy it is to tune the DAR Gen 2?
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As far as in-tube regulators go, I found it easy to get to it. Just back out the degassing grub screw to evacuate the tube of pressure, unscrew the end cap and you can see the regulator. Thread in an M4 screw into the regulator and grab the screw to pull it out. The pressure adjustment is just a simple movable valve seat on the end of the regulator body. Thread it in to reduce the setpoint or out to increase it. There are no graduations though so it will be a trial and error affair. I have no idea what the bottom end of the adjustment range is.
The hammer spring preload is super simple. Just turn the cap at the back of the receiver. It has two holes for a spanner wrench, but a sturdy pair of tweezers or in my case a small pair of needle-nose pliers got the job done.
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I'm pretty sure I shot the nose off a lizard at 43 yards with Jason's DAR my last visit.
I've shot the DAR II pre-release in several states and in several flavors.
I've shot the ones that came with the worst barrels you ever want to encounter!
That was a big part of the delay and Ron made sure it was corrected!
(Not gonna post much about arriving at his place very early in the morning and seeing him in his skivvies)
This was early in the testing. Ron gave me several examples to shoot at about 30 yards.
All shot great but I asked a question. "Do you have a stock version that I can compare?"
"Yep!" Was his reply. And he brought one out.
You don't EVER want a version like that! 30 yards and I was lucky if it was a 4" group!
And I use the term group loosely! I probably could have done better with my eyes closed!
As I talked with Ron and had the chance to shoot the DAR II at 30 yards I asked the final question.
What can it do at 100 yards? That is where I got a .25 to long range test.
It took awhile to get that test .25 but I will confirm it will hit the bottom of a beer can at 100+ yards easy!
Matt (Insanity) Has that .25 DAR now as I don't have the time to really play with it as much as I'd like.
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My brothers gun is shipping out ... he talked to Ryan this morning , after he shot my DAR .22 at thanksgiving he had to have one ... ;D
What a cool setup you have there! Awesome photo.
Mike ,and Charlie that is my dads place that he built a western town in Battle Ground Washington , its pretty cool place ,and makes for the ultimate shooting gallery when we set up all the targets all over BOOM TOWN ! glad I wasn't hanging out at the hotel cause there was a lot of lead flying around that place LOL ! ! ! ;D ;) ..... dad passed away 7 years ago ... but we still have the place ...
I have a new NOE mold .22 20g hunter , I casted well over 2000 pellets the last couple days ... they shoot pretty good in the DAR ...
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I can attest to Jeff's reptilian sniping prowess. I was shooting in the same general vicinity at the time and suddenly spotted something fall through the periphery of my field of view. "What was that?" Jeff trekked down and dug in the grass and found it. We're not talking an iguana, it was a little green lizard with a head about the size of a pencil eraser. At least I think so based on the size of the rest of the lizard. Not much to aim for at 43 yards.
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Estimated delivery = next Wednesday.
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Alright you enablers ....I returned my Gen 1 on the recall and have been waiting for like forever. Finnaly gave up and got the Avenger in 25 - nice rifle, no problems and like it a lot. But, it's not the DAR so last night ordered a Gen 2 (.25 cal) as a combined birthday/Christmas present. Now waiting for the phone call
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Congrats M E.
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Alright you enablers ....I returned my Gen 1 on the recall and have been waiting for like forever. Finnaly gave up and got the Avenger in 25 - nice rifle, no problems and like it a lot. But, it's not the DAR so last night ordered a Gen 2 (.25 cal) as a combined birthday/Christmas present. Now waiting for the phone call
When you returned yours, did they offer to sell you the Gen 2 for what you paid for the Gen 1? I asked about it and Ryan had me e-mail him my receipt for the Gen 1 and then honored that price, it saved me about $80! If you have the original receipt, it may be worth asking the question!
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What is this rifle?
Usually someone says, That is a Liberty rebranded, or something similar.
Which Chinese factory made it?
Would this be a low cost .177 slug shooter candidate? At $279:99 the chocke cutoff tools come out.
Wayne,
How much did you have left on the throttle when you did that .177 string?
Roachcreek
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The barrels are not choked, at least not the .22 and .25 I have. No reason for me to think the .177 would be but I don’t know with certainty.
However as nice as it is for the price, it’s not really an optimal setup for slugs. The barrel isn’t long...the whole gun isn’t very long and that includes room for baffles. I don’t know how high the regulator can be cranked up. FWIW, my gen1 was set around 2000psi but the gen2 regulator is an updated design that seems to have addressed the creep of the earlier one, and I haven’t needed to touch it, let alone explore how high it can go. You can of course bypass the regulator if you want to reach the highest possible power levels but I’d be tempted to try it regulated first. Assuming the plenum is the same size for all 3 calibers, it’s probably adequate for .177 slugs.
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Thanks Jaso.
RC
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If it matters, the .177 is only priced at $269.95, shipped, so with the current discount code, it would only be $249.95 shipped!
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If it matters, the .177 is only priced at $269.95, shipped, so with the current discount code, it would only be $249.95 shipped!
What is the discount code, please?
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2020. The sales site adds it automatically.
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I think today is the last day for the sale code.... IINM.
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Just placed an order for a .177 and two extra mags.
Not sure how the "we'll call you for payment" works. Does this mean no credit cards?
Discount code: 2020
Thanks
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Just placed an order for a .177 and two extra mags.
Not sure how the "we'll call you for payment" works. Does this mean no credit cards?
Discount code: 2020
Thanks
Nope, they will call and you just give your CC info. Tempting on the .177! :o
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Why can't I call them?
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Why can't I call them?
I just called them and finished the transaction via CC. Pre-emptive strike to avoid phone tag...
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Guys an Gals
Did yours come all wrapped up in a HD plastic sleeping bag and HD foam surrounding cushion?
My 17 cal just arrived, order on Dec 1st, 11:00 AM and received 2:30 pm today, with 4 extra mags.
Now to get some ammo, have scope and air............. ;) After I rest up.............I am tired.................. ::)
I spent the day with the OLD Homelite C-52 chain saw bucking up wood, got 4 BIG cottonwood trees,
given to us free, a couple of these trees were 3+' across the stump, 60+ ' tall and huge trees,
all we have to do is buck them up and haul away.
I am so tired, I just opened the Dar box, checked it and put it up, it will have to wait for another day.
Tia,
Don
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Guys an Gals
Did yours come all wrapped up in a HD plastic sleeping bag and HD foam surrounding cushion?
Tia,
Don
Yup. Snug as a bug in a rug.
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Couldn't resist....ordered a .177 too!
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When pulling patches through my .177 there were no uneven areas to be felt, and no indication of a choke, NSA 12.5 gr slugs do great, 860 FPS, with factory settings, may get some time this weekend to test heavier NSA 15 gr ammo.
You shooters will enjoy these guns for sure. ;)
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Shot my 177 this afternoon for the first time after the honey do list :'( Was getting dark so only put a few mags through it. Was to dark to get any fps readings but felt like it was running hot, will check this tomorrow. Was very accurate at 30yards. Its nice that it won't need a moderator, very quiet. I'll post a shot string and accuracy pics tomorrow. Anyone have a suggestion on a decent pic rail for a bipod??
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Shot my 177 this afternoon for the first time after the honey do list :'( Was getting dark so only put a few mags through it. Was to dark to get any fps readings but felt like it was running hot, will check this tomorrow. Was very accurate at 30yards. Its nice that it won't need a moderator, very quiet. I'll post a shot string and accuracy pics tomorrow. Anyone have a suggestion on a decent pic rail for a bipod??
Mine was so quiet I thought something was wrong...lol. DAR .22
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When pulling patches through my .177 there were no uneven areas to be felt, and no indication of a choke, NSA 12.5 gr slugs do great, 860 FPS, with factory settings, may get some time this weekend to test heavier NSA 15 gr ammo.
You shooters will enjoy these guns for sure. ;)
I shot some NSA .177 15 gr slugs, FPS on stock settings was 800 FPS, POI was to the right and groups were larger than the 12.5 slugs.
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Does anybody have a promo code that's valid right now? I went to buy a .22 and found that the promo code 2020 has expired.
One more question: Is this rifle regulated? Is the dovetail scope rail metal or hard plastic? How accurate would this gun be at 30 or 40 yards? I never hunt with my guns. I just get some lead therapy by plinking and trying to get really good groupings on my targets.
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Hey Guys
Anyone done some pellet testing on their new Dar 17 cal, I have to order some pellets,
and really don't know where to start on a PCP 17 cal.
I am hoping that I can make an inside pesting rifle for a max 25-30 yds for thinning those flying rats,
and don't punch ANY holes in the alum/tin roofing material etc........ :-\
I am thinking a lite weight wadcutter pellets around 700-800 fps, should provide plenty of smack down etc........... ;)
Your thoughts and suggestions..........
Tia,
Don
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Ok, here's a string I shot this morning using crosman 10.5 gr. In the chart I listed as 10.34gr but that wasn't correct. The main thing I noticed is I'm only getting 24 shots before it starts to fall off the reg. The reg seams to be set around 1400ish. This was at the stock setting. Anyone else with a 177 only getting 2mags worth. Doesn't seem right considering the size of air tube.
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To get JSB 10.43gr to shoot in the 870 range I need to back out the hammer screw 4 turns. I will need to modify the stock a bit to get this back together. You can see how far out 4 turns brings out the screw.
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Hey Guys
Anyone done some pellet testing on their new Dar 17 cal, I have to order some pellets,
and really don't know where to start on a PCP 17 cal.
I am hoping that I can make an inside pesting rifle for a max 25-30 yds for thinning those flying rats,
and don't punch ANY holes in the alum/tin roofing material etc........ :-\
I am thinking a lite weight wadcutter pellets around 700-800 fps, should provide plenty of smack down etc........... ;)
Your thoughts and suggestions..........
Tia,
Don
Don,
So far my 177 likes the crosman 10.5, JSB 10.34, AA 10.3. Getting around .6in groups at 40yards in the 940 fps range. If I bring the fps down under 900 I bet that would tighten up. I did try NSA 12gr and they were all over the place.
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Ok, here's a string I shot this morning using crosman 10.5 gr. In the chart I listed as 10.34gr but that wasn't correct. The main thing I noticed is I'm only getting 24 shots before it starts to fall off the reg. The reg seams to be set around 1400ish. This was at the stock setting. Anyone else with a 177 only getting 2mags worth. Doesn't seem right considering the size of air tube.
It's probably operating way up on the velocity plateau. Too much hammer spring tension and it's wasting air. Try backing out the hammer spring adjuster until the velocity drops to about 874 - 892fps (95-97% of 920fps). I expect your shot count will increase dramatically and it will be much quieter as well.
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My .25 came in yesterday surprisingly! Hopefully some testing today.
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Ok, here's a string I shot this morning using crosman 10.5 gr. In the chart I listed as 10.34gr but that wasn't correct. The main thing I noticed is I'm only getting 24 shots before it starts to fall off the reg. The reg seams to be set around 1400ish. This was at the stock setting. Anyone else with a 177 only getting 2mags worth. Doesn't seem right considering the size of air tube.
It's probably operating way up on the velocity plateau. Too much hammer spring tension and it's wasting air. Try backing out the hammer spring adjuster until the velocity drops to about 874 - 892fps (95-97% of 920fps). I expect your shot count will increase dramatically and it will be much quieter as well.
Jason,
Backed out the hammer, high was 877 low 860, av 869, es 17 over 55 shots. Looks like I'll need to cut a notch in the back of the stock as the hammer screw sticks out.
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Ed24,
Jason is probably right about the hammer spring preload. You might benefit from a shorter spring, rather than screwing the adjuster so far out.
Anyway, your PDF shotstring would not have me conclude you are off the reg after 24 shots. You might be, but I would want to see another 10 shots to see what they do.
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Don't know about another discount code.
The DAR is pressure regulated. You have to open the airgun to change the reg setting (not externally adjustable). You can adjust the hammer spring preload by removing the stock.
The sight dovetail is aluminum.
Based on what the people in this very thread are reporting, you should see 1/2" groups at 30 to 40 yards with a pellet the gun likes.
Does anybody have a promo code that's valid right now? I went to buy a .22 and found that the promo code 2020 has expired.
One more question: Is this rifle regulated? Is the dovetail scope rail metal or hard plastic? How accurate would this gun be at 30 or 40 yards? I never hunt with my guns. I just get some lead therapy by plinking and trying to get really good groupings on my targets.
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Where would be a good place to purchase springs from? Would rather try that before I cut a notch in the back of my stock...
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Where would be a good place to purchase springs from? Would rather try that before I cut a notch in the back of my stock...
McMaster Carr has a good selection. You'll have to pull the stock spring out and take some measurements. Either shorter or smaller wire diameter should yield better results for you.
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Where would be a good place to purchase springs from? Would rather try that before I cut a notch in the back of my stock...
McMaster Carr has a good selection. You'll have to pull the stock spring out and take some measurements. Either shorter or smaller wire diameter should yield better results for you.
Rod,
Thanks for the info. I'll be sure and look them up in a bit. ;D
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A spring with the same OD or ID (depending on how it is stabilized in your application), that just has thinner wire will probably work. However, one of the tricks to prevent hammer bounce, is to set up a stiff spring so that when the hammer is in the forward rest state (after firing), that there is actually no preload on the spring. So, a softer spring with lots of preload may reduce velocity to where you want, but cause hammer bounce and use more air.
A similar spring to what you have, with just a few coils less would be on my list to try. Or, even one with thicker wire, but a shorter overall length. The fact that you are unloading your spring so much, with very little velocity response, suggests your spring is long with thin wire, using a lot of preload.
The effect of wire thickness on spring rate is dramatic. Going from .03 to .04" is a much larger than 33% change; all else being equal.
I use McMaster a lot because their cataloging is very easy to use. For a $1 bag of springs, you may end up paying $8 for shipping... The flip side is that I get parts delivered within one day - very convenient. www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/compression-springs-7/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/compression-springs-7/)
Amazon prime is cheaper, but finding the exact spring you want is a nightmare...
Of course, there are many spring specialists that would work also. Someone might suggest one.
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A spring with the same OD or ID (depending on how it is stabilized in your application), that just has thinner wire will probably work. However, one of the tricks to prevent hammer bounce, is to set up a stiff spring so that when the hammer is in the forward rest state (after firing), that there is actually no preload on the spring. So, a softer spring with lots of preload may reduce velocity to where you want, but cause hammer bounce and use more air.
A similar spring to what you have, with just a few coils less would be on my list to try. Or, even one with thicker wire, but a shorter overall length. The fact that you are unloading your spring so much, with very little velocity response, suggests your spring is long with thin wire, using a lot of preload.
The effect of wire thickness on spring rate is dramatic. Going from .03 to .04" is a much larger than 33% change; all else being equal.
I use McMaster a lot because their cataloging is very easy to use. For a $1 bag of springs, you may end up paying $8 for shipping... The flip side is that I get parts delivered within one day - very convenient. www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/compression-springs-7/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/compression-springs-7/)
Amazon prime is cheaper, but finding the exact spring you want is a nightmare...
Of course, there are many spring specialists that would work also. Someone might suggest one.
Thanks! I'll look them up.
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My delivery schedule moved up from Wednesday to tomorrow... Tuesday.
SWEET !!
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My delivery time got moved from Tuesday to Wednesday, looks like you are going to get my rifle .. :-\
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LOL... sorry bout that.
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Ordered a couple different springs today and should arrive tomorrow. Will let everyone know what finally works. Was hoping I could use this rifle for a little slug gun but didn't shoot the 12gr NSA very well. At 40yrs was getting about a 6" group. It did do really good with some pellets and bet would be better if I can slow it down a bit.
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Ordered a couple different springs today and should arrive tomorrow. Will let everyone know what finally works. Was hoping I could use this rifle for a little slug gun but didn't shoot the 12gr NSA very well. At 40yrs was getting about a 6" group. It did do really good with some pellets and bet would be better if I can slow it down a bit.
Did you make sure your barrel was absolutely clean and lube your slugs?
Seems I remember someone else on the forum having good luck with the 12.5's in there's.
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Ordered a couple different springs today and should arrive tomorrow. Will let everyone know what finally works. Was hoping I could use this rifle for a little slug gun but didn't shoot the 12gr NSA very well. At 40yrs was getting about a 6" group. It did do really good with some pellets and bet would be better if I can slow it down a bit.
Did you make sure your barrel was absolutely clean and lube your slugs?
Seems I remember someone else on the forum having good luck with the 12.5's in there's.
I cleaned the barrel before I started testing with pellets and slugs. I do think I shot the pellets first. I would have to say this rifle had the dirtiest barrel I have seen so far from factory. When I pulled that first patch through looked like I'd been using it to clean off an old dirty engine!!! What do you use for lube :o on the slugs??? Wife:Hey honey what are you doing? Me: just asking the guys on GTA what type of lube they use!!! ;D :D
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Ordered a couple different springs today and should arrive tomorrow. Will let everyone know what finally works. Was hoping I could use this rifle for a little slug gun but didn't shoot the 12gr NSA very well. At 40yrs was getting about a 6" group. It did do really good with some pellets and bet would be better if I can slow it down a bit.
Did you make sure your barrel was absolutely clean and lube your slugs?
Seems I remember someone else on the forum having good luck with the 12.5's in there's.
I cleaned the barrel before I started testing with pellets and slugs. I do think I shot the pellets first. I would have to say this rifle had the dirtiest barrel I have seen so far from factory. When I pulled that first patch through looked like I'd been using it to clean off an old dirty engine!!! What do you use for lube :o on the slugs??? Wife:Hey honey what are you doing? Me: just asking the guys on GTA what type of lube they use!!! ;D :D
Lol! 10wt silicone rc shock oil.
Mines supposed to arrive tomorrow in .22. If she holds air, I'll be doing my normal regimen.
Ill get after it with a bore brush until spotless. And then polish with jb bore paste. Drop down to mother's mag polish and finish up with Johnson's paste wax.
On my pellets I use PB Blaster silicone spray. After all of the above, it usually only takes a few pull through patches to get it squeaky clean after a tin of pellets.
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Ordered a couple different springs today and should arrive tomorrow. Will let everyone know what finally works. Was hoping I could use this rifle for a little slug gun but didn't shoot the 12gr NSA very well. At 40yrs was getting about a 6" group. It did do really good with some pellets and bet would be better if I can slow it down a bit.
Did you make sure your barrel was absolutely clean and lube your slugs?
Seems I remember someone else on the forum having good luck with the 12.5's in there's.
I cleaned the barrel before I started testing with pellets and slugs. I do think I shot the pellets first. I would have to say this rifle had the dirtiest barrel I have seen so far from factory. When I pulled that first patch through looked like I'd been using it to clean off an old dirty engine!!! What do you use for lube :o on the slugs??? Wife:Hey honey what are you doing? Me: just asking the guys on GTA what type of lube they use!!! ;D :D
Lol! 10wt silicone rc shock oil.
Mines supposed to arrive tomorrow in .22. If she holds air, I'll be doing my normal regimen.
Ill get after it with a bore brush until spotless. And then polish with jb bore paste. Drop down to mother's mag polish and finish up with Johnson's paste wax.
On my pellets I use PB Blaster silicone spray. After all of the above, it usually only takes a few pull through patches to get it squeaky clean after a tin of pellets.
Exactly what I did to my .177 , have you pushed a slug through the barrel yet or else shoot it into, a tube filled with tightly wadded up plastic bags, or an old fiber filled pillow to see if there is a snag in the bore somewhere.
No accuracy issues so far but not as good the heavier the slugs I have shot. I want to adjust mine to get them from 860 fps to more like 910 or so and see what happens yet. Still have to test out past 30 yards with the 12.5, but 1/2 " 1full mag groups at 30.
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No sooner did I get back to work from lunch, Betty Lou called and told me that UPS delivered my DAR .25. She said the box is in good shape with zero signs of damage. So now it looks like I'll get my grubby mits on it in about 3 hours.
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No sooner did I get back to work from lunch, Betty Lou called and told me that UPS delivered my DAR .25. She said the box is in good shape with zero signs of damage. So now it looks like I'll get my grubby mits on it in about 3 hours.
Congrats. And wash your hands first.
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No sooner did I get back to work from lunch, Betty Lou called and told me that UPS delivered my DAR .25. She said the box is in good shape with zero signs of damage. So now it looks like I'll get my grubby mits on it in about 3 hours.
Tick tock. Whats wrong with that clock?
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LOL.... it's the same dam clock that I look at Monday thru Friday waiting for 5:00pm.
It's probably a good idea that they not let me bring airguns to work.
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Got a chrony string on mine....Korean tune out of the box (not that bad at all), trigger is terrible and it is loud. Not to be discouraged at all, seems like it will be an excellent gun with some tlc. .177 on the way!
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Korean tune out of the box
What is a Korean tune?
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Korean tune out of the box
What is a Korean tune?
First shot the fastest then a steady decline.
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Got a chrony string on mine....Korean tune out of the box (not that bad at all), trigger is terrible and it is loud. Not to be discouraged at all, seems like it will be an excellent gun with some tlc. .177 on the way!
Hammer spring must be cranked down. From what ive been gathering, 900 fps with 14-16 grain pellets has been the norm. Pushing those noe at 860 has to be wasting air.
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How can a regulated gun have a cliff tune ??? they shoot steady until they go off the reg., then slightly higher or lower, depending on the HS setting.
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How can a regulated gun have a cliff tune ??? they shoot steady until they go off the reg., then slightly higher or lower, depending on the HS setting.
True, just looking at the numbers initially. Actually is pretty flat, should have not said that. Did not even touch it out of the box, just aired it and shot it.
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Did not even touch it out of the box, just aired it and shot it.
Perhaps the shipping gunk in the barrel actually served as lube to increase initial velocities? As that dirt was swept out, the friction went up, decreasing velocities...
I see a lot of dogma about initial barrel cleaning before shooting. I would tend to agree, if there was swarf in the bore (see my profile image).
I generally look through the bore (with the bolt open). If it looks anything less than bright, I generally shoot more than my standard two wet cleaning pellets through. That should sweep out macro particles and general long chain lipids.
Then there are many others, including Ted Bier who just shoot every airgun as it comes out of the box. Then proclaim it better or worse than expectations.
If the bore looks a little matte, I might be tempted to fire lap it a little and see what happens. Some might ask how I can be that brutal, if I have not pulled 30 tight clean patches through first? Others, fire lap all new barrels as a matter of course. Now, there are different ways to fire lap, and it can be overdone...
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Got home at 0dark:30... I hate daylight savings. 5:00 pm and it's dark.
A white plastic wrapped box was sitting on my recliner but, Rambo comes first... He INSISTS I visit with him when I get home. He steps on my feet until I do.
Finally got to the box... and what I nice box it is. I've seen guns costing twice as much with less of a package. Opened the box to find the gun, documents, a zip bag with several orings and a fill probe. Also 3 mags in the box. All safe and secure in their own little spaces.
I looked it over for scrapes, scratches and bruises. I really like the dark finish with a nice hint of grain peeking through. Ryan did pick me out a nice one... or maybe they all look as nice.
They gauge read 2900 psi. Off to the gun room to pick out a scope. I chose the Discovery VT-z 6-24x44 SF and mounted it up.
Then I did a photo shoot..... pardon the mess.
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Added a DonnyFL Tanto to my DAR2, it's really quiet now! ;D
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Not a pickle fan.... Kosher or otherwise.
I might be able to grab a few minutes of daylight to step outside and crack a few shots off before work in the morning. Been pretty cold in the mornings though.
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Not a pickle fan.... Kosher or otherwise.
I might be able to grab a few minutes of daylight to step outside and crack a few shots off before work in the morning. Been pretty cold in the mornings though.
Well, we don't all live in the boonies! I have neighbors I have to contend with! :P
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What screw to degas guys?
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I'm really interested in one of these in 25 caliber. I have 3 22 pcps and a 177, but nothing in quarter bore. I'll be casting for it, so I'm not really worried about pellet cost.
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Perhaps the shipping gunk in the barrel actually served as lube to increase initial velocities? As that dirt was swept out, the friction went up, decreasing velocities...
Perhaps the regulator was settling; and needs more exercise before it will be stable...
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What screw to degas guys?
It is explained on page 5 of the manual. Talks about the stock being removed to reach the screw. Screw "L" is just in front of the underside of the receiver, on the airtube.
If you have a new DAR, you have the manual. If used, I can post those pages here...
Unboxing as I type..... :)
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Paul, how does the Tanto attach? Clamps onto the OD or threads on?
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Not a pickle fan.... Kosher or otherwise.
I might be able to grab a few minutes of daylight to step outside and crack a few shots off before work in the morning. Been pretty cold in the mornings though.
Well, we don't all live in the boonies! I have neighbors I have to contend with! :P
Well... leave your pickles in the jar at home and pay us a visit sometime... :P
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Bill, you did not get my DAR after all, mine came in today as well, one day earlier than UPS advised on their website. ;D
I didn't take any unboxing pictures, but mine was packaged just as you described. UPS also delivered mine after dark, so no shooting until tomorrow. Visual inspection revealed a very small manufacturer defect on the underside of the shroud on the left side, but the spot was easily touched up with black marker and all looks good now.
A word of caution, I always check all the screws on a new gun, and found that almost all the screws were loose on my DAR. The barrel screws were so loose they were not even making contact with the barrel, and the shroud screws were loose also. I took the action out of the stock, and that screw was loose. While I had the action out I swabbed everything down with Ballistol and buttoned it back up securely.
Pictures can be deceiving, but it looks like my stock is much darker than yours. My stock has nice grain, but the finish could use some polish and smoothing. Overall, the gun seems tough and ready for some field use in the North GA mountains. Pictures tomorrow..
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I just had a good look around my .177 DAR that arrived today. It looks and feels solidly made for the price of many a plastic stocked PCP.
Holding it as if sighting offhand it feels very stable, but very much not dainty. Holding it in one hand ahead of the trigger guard while maneuvering it around as I often do with my rifles, I was convinced it weighed all of 8 lb. Nope; 6.9 lb according to my kitchen scale. I think the tall stock and hardware higher up is creating a "top-heavy" feel that all but goes away in actual aiming.
I may be tempted to core out the stock to shed some weight, once I am confident this one is a keeper. Or reprofile the fore-end to be less blocky. Certainly, I don't shoot off a forward rest so making that surface less of a shelf, or making it a shallower shelf would be tempting. Inside coring would not require external refinishing...
The pressure gauge reads 1.4 BAR = 2058 PSI.
With the bolt open, I looked down the barrel from the muzzle (the way your drill instructor would look to see if the barrel on your M1 Garand were clean). The bore is glossy enough to make me happy. Will take anther look after shooting enough cleaning pellets until they come out clean. For those of you trying this, even oil soaked cleaning pellets leave the muzzle at well over Mach One; so be prepared for a very loud crack. I may need to shoot two cleaning pellets backed by a wadcutter to keep the racket down...
Removing the shroud encap seems to show a baffle stack that screws into something just inside the shroud, as that circular part has two holes for a two-pin wrench. I did not try to unscrew that. I did measure the endcap through hole. I am surprised that it is only 5.6 mm or .220".
The shroud is held by a barrel band near the muzzle with zero give. There might be an O-ring in there, but all I saw was a lack of daylight, so to speak. So, not a free floated shroud, but potentially less prone to being knocked off zero. I am confident that some enterprising souls will open up the hole in the barrel band to make the shroud free floating (although the side walls of the band seem thin). I say, if it shoots well, leave it along.
Cocking lever travel is near effortless. There is some float on the probe, but I think this will allow the probe to align with the pellet on chambering, rather than force it off center. The probe floats effortlessly, until it meets and is centered by the breech O-ring in the barrel or barrel extension.
The butt stock design seems unusually raked at the toe, as if to ensure the stock won't slip off your shoulder. It feels fine, and that is what matters. I do not have any sights on yet, so just how it will feel will ultimately depend on the sight height.
I was convinced that I was going to buy an Avenger, eventually. It has easy reg adjustability and very light weight, by virtue of the plastic stock. This DAR was $310 including two extra mags, tax, and "free" shipping. So, for a rifle that you set up to shoot one or two favorite projectiles, and then never adjust again, the lack of easy reg and hammer spring adjustment don't seem to matter that much.
I like the fact that the DAR is only 40". That seems like the magic number for maneuverability to me. Anything over 43" is just too long. The DAR's wood looks so much nicer and more "expensive", than any cheap plastic stock. None of that hollow sound either...
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Funny you should mention that stock profile, as I laid the DAR right next to my SPA M16, and the profile on the SPA is more sophisticated and much less bulky. The overall length of both rifles is almost exactly the same with the factory pickle on the SPA, but the M16 feels a bit lighter (and it is).
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Steve,
A picture of the two side by side would be appreciated.
Thanks
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I will send that picture tomorrow. ;D
I noticed you mentioned that your pressure gauge read in BAR, and the manual that came with my rifle mentioned BAR, but my rifle shows pressure in MPa. That manual I mentioned also showed the old style magazine and not the new style, so I assume it is out of date, probably for the Gen1 rifles?
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Steve,
I may have done a translation, that led to confusion: My gauge reads in MPa. I translated that to Atmospheres to make distinction that it was not PSI. The redline starts a little above 200 MPa. In other words, not 2900 PSI fill but 3000, or a touch more.
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What screw to degas guys?
To use degassing screw:
Take stock off. There is one bolt in front of trigger guard. Degassing screw is on underside of air tube; just ahead of receiver - see image below.
From manual:
Unscrew degassing screw slowly, until air can be heard escaping. Do not remove completely. After air venting sound has stopped, turn screw another 1/4 turn counter clockwise to ensure all pressure has vented.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339052;image)
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I heeded Steve's warning about loose screws:
The screw securing the cocking arm hinge was loose on my .177 DAR2. I was very gentle with it, as it has a tiny hex. I then added a drop of wicking Locktite to the screw head, inverted the receiver so it would not run into the cocking arm, and blotted the excess.
The caps crews holding the trigger guard on were loose.
The single cap screw holding on the stock was tight enough to pop as I undid it. The receiver is a very snug fit in the stock. At first I was looking for the other screw that must be holding the parts together.
The barrel retaining screws clearly have locking fluid applied at the factory. I check tightened them, without pushing hard enough to actually move them. Gave the shroud retaining screws a very light snugging. They are so small that they are likely to strip before they go "tight".
Set the trigger lighter by turning the adjustment screw in one rev. Still on the heavy side, but noticeably lighter. Trigger return spring probably contributes more than half the trigger weight.
I dry fired the gun to feel the trigger adjustment. The gun was surprisingly quiet. Should be even quieter with a pellet, providing that it is heavy enough to stay subsonic.
As I am more interested in shot count than peak power, and want to be able to use pellets lighter than 10 grains, I backed off the hammer spring by one turn (should make it even quieter). I may have to turn it back in by 1/4 turn, as the adjustment screw is now slightly proud of the back of the receiver. Turning the screw took very little effort - I am actually concerned with the screw migrating in use. Yes, this seems silly before actually measuring pellet velocity, but it is easy to undo, should I want to. My goal is around 850 FPS with 8 grain pellets.
Next step - cleaning the barrel; then some chrony shots to set the velocity near where I want it. Then, back into the stock, before fitting some sights...
The stock is quite bulky in the forearm. Lots of opportunity to core that out. I am thinking of plunging a pattern of holes with a decent margin around them, using my milling machine. Don't want to make the stock obviously flexible - might happen if one cuts one long wide slot. May have to core out the butt stock too (from under the recoil pad); else the overall balance could be upset. Would be happy taking 1/2 to 1 lb out...
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Got some indication of velocity with the hammer spring backed out one turn from the way the .177 DAR arrived:
RWS 9.3 grain Supermag: 904 FPS : 16.9 FPE
H&N 7.3 grain Excite Econ (old version): 972 FPS : 15.3 FPE
I turned the screw out another turn and managed to get one reading with the Supermags: 850 FPS : 14.9 FPE. At this point the pressure was just dipping below 100 MPa on the gauge.
As this is still a bit hot for my purposes, and I would have to modify the stock to back out the hammer spring even by this much. So, I decided to remove the spring so that I can measure it. That way, I might make an informed choice towards buying a less energetic replacement. As I have this info, it might be of benefit to others:
Stock .177 DAR2 hammer spring. This is after exercising it by shooting the rifle perhaps 20 times. So, a new unused spring may be a little longer.
OD: 10.88 mm or 0.428"
Wire diameter: 1.19 mm or 0.047"
Uncompressed length: 48 mm or 1.189"
Number of active coils is 10 or 10.5 depending on how you want to call it. See image below.
ID as a reference, with less confidence due to possible end-coil interference at caliper beak: 8.5 mm or 0.335"
Nominal hammer spring preload (uncocked) as the air rifle was received: 16.44 mm : 0.647"
So, the spring's nominal installed (uncocked) length is 31.6 mm : 1.24"
The pitch on the cap's thread looks to be about 1.5 mm : 0.059"
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Shot my DAR .25 for the first time this morning, first mag from a full fill, 25.39 JSB ranged from a high of 888fps to a low of 881fps with most shots right at 885fps. Reg seemed pretty consistant for the first shots fired, and the magazine worked flawlessly. It did take some effort to close the bolt on the first pellet, but it seemed to ease up some with the remaining pellets. I have my SPA M16 shooting the same pellets at 900 fps, (Huma Reg) and the DAR's bark is a bit louder than the M16, with a different pitch to the sound.
I use my guns mostly for hunting so shot count is not as important as power in my case. I plan to adjust the hammer spring up a bit to bring the fps in line with the M16 or slightly higher, and see how the accuracy looks after cleaning the barrel.
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This is the picture of the DAR sitting next to the SPA M16.
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Sub
Thank you for the details on the 177 Dar. I will be following along on this report.
My 177 still sets inside it's plastic sleeping bag.............. ::) I have been too tired after the tree bucking, cutting fire wood etc,
maybe this weekend............... ;)
Seeing the spec's on the hammer spring, I'll try a Flat wire spring, as the spec's are very close,
except the length that can be adjusted etc.
Spec's for the flat wire spring are: O/S dia of .415", I/S hole diameter of .265", wire thickness of.025" x .070" wide/flat,
length 2.620", 15 coils, wire weight rating of 18#'s.
This is the stub end,
I cut from a 5"+ long OEM spring for the QB hammer spring, this OEM 5" long spring reaches coil bound in 1.030".
They are a very easy spring to work with.
Thanks,
Don
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Paul, how does the Tanto attach? Clamps onto the OD or threads on?
I had an adapter made, it screws onto the end of the shroud and has a ½-20 UNF treaded end to attach the DonnyFL. It retains the stock baffles, so now it's really quiet!
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Okay thanks. Someone on another forum was asking about it. I measured the threads at M18.5 x 0.75 which struck me as an oddball size. Is your adapter a custom one-off or is the maker willing to make and sell them?
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Okay thanks. Someone on another forum was asking about it. I measured the threads at M18.5 x 0.75 which struck me as an oddball size. Is your adapter a custom one-off or is the maker willing to make and sell them?
It's my buddy Stefan from Serbia. He actually had made me one 2 years ago for the Gen 1 DAR, I just sent him the dimensions again and he made me another because I lost the original! I'm sure he would be happy to make more if there is an interest. He has an eBay store, I can ask him to post them there.
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Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested.
What is the thread callout by the way?
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Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested.
What is the thread callout by the way?
I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits! LOL! His stuff it really nice!
Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.
https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories (https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories)
He's making me one for the Pishtov RAS-01 now, that thing has a really odd sized threaded barrel inside the shroud, so it will probably be a really custom piece!
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Thanks for the picture Steve - inserted below at full size.
The SPA looks svelte compared to the DAR.
While coring out the stock will remove weight, I think my problem with the feel of the DAR is the high center of gravity. That would be improved by sliming down the stock, so that one's hand is nearer the center of gravity of the metal parts.
While the SPA's stock design looks much better here, I think the depth of wood just ahead of the trigger guard is "excessive". Styling is one thing; ergonomics another.
To me, the HW50 is just about perfect in feel. The HW50 is 0.1 lb lighter than the DAR, but somehow feels much lighter in one hand. This impression goes away when held level and upright with both hands. I think this has to do with the difference in moment when canted over, by having the metal parts "high" in the DAR, and the moment that has to be resisted when the rifle is held in one hand; non-orthogonal with the center of the earth.
I noticed this moment when fitting even a small optic to my Marauder pistol. That it feels a lot more "tippy", rather than heavy. I don't like that sensation - something that you guys with large scopes probably don't even notice anymore. You probably just use that sensation as a feature, to ensure you don't cant the rifle :)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339076;image)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J0JJ74jb-Qk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Another PCP that feels great to me is the Stormrider - below. Its stock is actually reminiscent of both your SPA and the DAR; yet feels svelte. I think that it is because the stock, while "square" in section is very narrow, with all other dimensions except length of pull combining a solid, yet dainty feel. Part of that is the Stormrider's 5 lb weight. It is actually 1/2" longer than the DAR:
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/PY-4449_Diana-Stormrider-Multishot-PCP_1551363704.jpg)
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Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested.
What is the thread callout by the way?
I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits! LOL! His stuff it really nice!
Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.
Please let him know that there is definite interest in these! At least one from me.
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Did some quick spring testing after work b4 it got dark. I have found with my .177 cal stock spring I didn't have much of a adjustment range without modifying the stock to allow the adjustment screw to be backed out and still get the gun and stock back together. I also noticed with the stock spring and the adjustment screw flush it was shooting at fastest fps. With stock spring and adjustment screw flush with the block at 912fps. 1/2 turn in 910fps, 1 full turn in 910 fps and just getting louder and louder. Stock spring size : 1.88 long, OD .428, wire .047. I'm using a harbor freight caliper so my not be the most accurate. Test spring 1, 1.5 long, OD .383, wire .049. Flush 872fps, 1/2 turn in 889, 1 turn in 902, 1.5 turn in 908 and with a 1/2 turn out from flush 845fps. Test spring 2, this spring came at 2" long but I cut down to 1.58 long, OD .41, wire .050 set to flush 846fps, 1/2 turn in 870, 1 turn in 885, 1.5 turn gun would not cock. Test spring 3, Spring cut to 1.58 long, OD .447, wire .048 Flush 860fps, 1/2 turn in 870, 1 turn in 888, 1.5 turn in 895, 2 turns in 902. At 1/2 turn out from flush 805 fps. I'm trying to find a spring that will give me a wider adjustment range for tuning up or down without getting into the reg at this point. I also didn't want to cut the stock spring so I can always go back to original if I want. Didn't get a chance to shoot any string yet, maybe this weekend if I get time but so far so good!!! ;D
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Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested.
What is the thread callout by the way?
I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits! LOL! His stuff it really nice!
Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.
https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories (https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories)
He's making me one for the Pishtov RAS-01 now, that thing has a really odd sized threaded barrel inside the shroud, so it will probably be a really custom piece!
My .22 DAR is not very loud at all , the .25 makes a decent pop but not horrible or maybe its just me because I don't have to worry about noise on our property so I don't think about it so much- unlike the XP Ranger .45 squeezing off at 4300 psi it sounds like 1 of the guns from Naverone going off.... ;D , I use caldwell electronic ear protection sound canceling ear protection for fire arms on that 1 ... ;)
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Excellent info, Edward. I presume these velocities were also with 10.5 grain pellets?
I ordered two springs in haste before sunrise :). Now that I have them in hand and I am thinking more clearly, I notice that the hammer recess will take a spring up to just over 12 mm in diameter. The cap measures 13 mm at its spring seat diameter. This should open up the range of possibilities, and be more stable than smaller OD compression springs used to bring the spring rate up.
By my measurements, the optimal relaxed spring length, for a full range of velocity adjustability is 33 mm or 1.3". I want quarter turns on the spring cap to provide meaningful velocity adjustment. This will require a shorter spring with a higher rate. You will move towards achieving this with the springs you have, if you cut them to 1.3".
Now, you could use an even shorter spring around 1.25", if you don't mind the cap floating at the low end of the velocity scale. Somehow, I want the cap not to slap back on its threads, every time I cock the hammer, so 1.30" seems to be a good value, that would let you turn out the cap by 1.5 turns from flush and still get the action back into the stock.
I need to pump my DAR back up before exploring velocity in a meaningful way. My first candidate will be a 1.25" long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as stock: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/) It takes about 3/4 turns from flush to just take up the slack on the spring.
Then, I also have a 1.5" long spring with an OD of .42 and a 0.042" wire diameter: https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K89/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K89/) . At this point, I think any spring with a lower than stock rate is moving the wrong way, so my money is on the short one for combining a low velocity range with a steep adjustment response. The softer spring may get me closer to the velocity I want, but not the range of velocity adjustment. Not unless I stretch it to a relaxed length of 1.3"...
To match the maximum bolt travel the mechanism allows (without the spring in place), the spring must not go solid before 15.3 mm of travel. The sear actually latches before this at 12 mm of spring compression, but I would never want to cut it that fine. Perhaps 13 mm of cocking travel before coil bind would be a real functional minimum, assuming this is not dependent on trigger adjustment, or some other expected variation.
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What screw to degas guys?
To use degassing screw:
Take stock off. There is one bolt in front of trigger guard. Degassing screw is on underside of air tube; just ahead of receiver - see image below.
From manual:
Unscrew degassing screw slowly, until air can be heard escaping. Do not remove completely. After air venting sound has stopped, turn screw another 1/4 turn counter clockwise to ensure all pressure has vented.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339052;image)
Thank you sir. Had a heck of a time with mine last night. Must have been a Friday build.
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Does anyone know if there is a single shot tray for the DAR2? I like to single load pellets quite often, and the loading port is a little snug for my fingers.
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Edward,
This spring calculator may help you speed up your spring selection: https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html (https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html)
Here are stock springs identified by means of the above calculator. These have more than twice the spring rate of the stock one (12.675 Lbs/In). Also, they are 1.3" long - what I consider the most versatile length (explained in post above):
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html (https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html): Rate (lbs./in.) 30.462
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html (https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html) : Rate (lbs./in.) 30.198
Snag is one has to spend at least $40 at this vendor...
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Tried the 32 mm long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as the stock spring: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/. (https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/.)
The spring just makes contact with the cap when the cap is flush with the back of the receiver.
Conclusion: You might want a spring with at least 24 lb/inch rate. This one is not stiff enough; except for low power applications... Very quiet, even at 16.6 FPE.
Muzzle velocity with RWS 9.3 grain Supermag wadcutter:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339202;image)
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Tried the 32 mm long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as the stock spring: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/. (https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/.)
The spring just makes contact with the cap when the cap is flush with the back of the receiver.
Conclusion: You might want a spring with at least 24 lb/inch rate. This one is not stiff enough; except for low power applications... Very quiet, even at 16.6 FPE.
Muzzle velocity with RWS 9.3 grain Supermag wadcutter:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339202;image)
Edward,
This spring calculator may help you speed up your spring selection: https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html (https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html)
Here are stock springs identified by means of the above calculator. These have more than twice the spring rate of the stock one (12.675 Lbs/In). Also, they are 1.3" long - what I consider the most versatile length (explained in post above):
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html (https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html): Rate (lbs./in.) 30.462
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html (https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html) : Rate (lbs./in.) 30.198
Snag is one has to spend at least $40 at this vendor...
Thanks for all the great info. I'm new to changing out the stock spring on any gun so I really appreciate the info. ;)
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For anyone who is interested in getting a ½-20 UNF adapter to add a LDC to their DAR, Stefan asked that you contact him directly. His e-mail address is:
stefan.cefi.kovacevic@gmail.com
Not knowing the demand, he's willing to make these for those who want one, but doesn't want to make a bunch of them right away. His adapters are very well made. They are blued steel, not aluminum, so they are built to last a lifetime. They may weigh an ounce or 2 more than an aluminum adapter, but there is very little chance of them wearing out, or the threads being damaged or stripped due to cross threading or just day to day abuse.
He's been making these for me for years, his craftsmanship is top notch. I send him crappy cellphone pictures and measurements of an end cap, and he magically creates an adapter that 9 out of 10 times fits perfectly the first time! There have been a couple I've received that did not fit for some reason or another, but I just send him more pictures and measurements and he sends me another! The adapter for the DAR fits mine perfectly, so if there aren't a lot of variances in the DAR manufacturing process, if you get one from Stefan, it will probably fit just as good as mine does!
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received my .25 yesterday evening. Had enough time to clean the barrel, mount a scope, and give it a quick site in before it got dark. Gun feels solid, and my stock is a very dark brown that looks nice. Gun shoulders well, and was hitting 3" metal gong at 40yards offhand consistently until I ran out of daylight. Gun is quiet enough for where I'm shooting. Overall I'm very happy with the gun. My only (minor) complaints so far:
- trigger on mine is really bad, need to try to adjust that today
- yet another size fill probe for my collection (would prefer foster)
- gauge is on the end of the airtube, so you have to look down the muzzle to check pressure
- what the $@#% is a megapascal, and why does the manual tell you how many psi/bar to fill to, but not mention MPa, which is what the gauge displays?
Other than those minor gripes, I'm happy and look forward to testing different pellets this weekend.
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My only (minor) complaints so far:
- trigger on mine is really bad, need to try to adjust that today
- yet another size fill probe for my collection (would prefer foster)
- gauge is on the end of the airtube, so you have to look down the muzzle to check pressure
- what the $@#% is a megapascal, and why does the manual tell you how many psi/bar to fill to, but not mention MPa, which is what the gauge displays?
Converting BAR to MPa (megapascal) is pretty simple, just drop the zero! 250BAR = 25 MPa!
The trigger is somewhat adjustable, but just adding some grease to the contact point from the rear of the trigger assembly will do wonders without having to disassemble the trigger.
I'm not a fan of sticking my head over the barrel to see the gauge either, but that sure seems to be a common practice in the industry. I remove the magazine, decoct and if possible engage the safety before filling. It makes me feels a little more comfortable watching the gauge as it fills. I have found using one of those telescoping exam mires helpful when tuning, I just slip it in front of the gauge to see where I'm at and don't have to move the gun from the rest and I can do this safely while the gun is still in the ready position.
They really do need to settle on a one size fits all fill probe! I'd rather have just one and a dozen spares than a dozer different sizes!
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Does anyone know if there is a single shot tray for the DAR2? I like to single load pellets quite often, and the loading port is a little snug for my fingers.
I just took a Marauder single shot tray that I had laying around, and using a dremel, I shaved about 1/8" off the front and bottom and it works. As a bonus, it also fits in my Prod, so now I've got a single show tray for both.
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I just took a Marauder single shot tray that I had laying around, and using a dremel, I shaved about 1/8" off the front and bottom and it works. As a bonus, it also fits in my Prod, so now I've got a single show tray for both.
Hmmm, has anyone tried a P-Rod tray in a DAR?
Hunter
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I have a Prod SST, I just tried it and it doesn’t fit as is. But, if you were to sand off about a 32nd of an inch from the back side, I bet it would!
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This reminds me of the difference between Marauder mags and Umarex Gauntlet mags due to the difference in Inches versus mm. The Marauder mags fit my Liberty but are loose, but the Gauntlet mags won't fit the Marauder without sanding slightly, but fit the Liberty fine.
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LOL.... it's the same dam clock that I look at Monday thru Friday waiting for 5:00pm.
It's probably a good idea that they not let me bring airguns to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wMesI8aiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wMesI8aiw)
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The new beauty for me being retired this year is I no longer have to deal with a 5 o: clock world unless I happen to be out and about and hit the traffic. ;D
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+1 Tom, I retired in September and it is hard to keep up with what day of the week it is. :o
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One thing I will be adding... sling studs.
I want to also be able to use the bipod that I use on my Avenger on it. The bipod attaches to the front sling stud.
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I notice that my DARs pressure gauge seems to read 20% higher than my cheap hand pump's gauge. This is a much larger gauge disparity than on the two Benjamin PCPs and PP700 I own. It took enough work to pump up the DAR to its indicated max, so that is where it stopped.
I am another non-fan of pressure gauges that are almost coaxial with the bore at the muzzle end.
My way of convincing myself it is OK is to see the bolt open, with mag out. Better with the hammer uncocked. I have not tried loading a pellet, opening the bolt and pulling the trigger diretly (because this is out and out abuse). The hammer might very well have enough energy left after slamming the bolt closed to launch a pellet and put an eye out. Especially if the gun was set up for high power.
A closed breech does not visually and obviously "declare" unloaded, uncocked and safety on. It could hide a loaded pellet and a state where a brush of the trigger creates a third nostril. I don't like to rely on the safety, although using it can't hurt. That said, a safety on the trigger or in the trigger guard strikes me as asking for trouble.
In any event, I make a point of keeping my head off axis form the bore; but I feel uneasy all the same. It occurred to me, what would it take to fit another pressure gauge perpendicular to the air tube? I think that the reg sits in the receiver directly behind the airtube, so the most logical place for it is already "taken". Threading a hole in the airtube the sidewall does not sit well with me...
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My sources tell me you need an 18mmx75 thread to add an adapter to the DAR.
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I got my .25 DAR today... was very impressed with the wood and the overall fit and finish...then I looked at the gauge.
Sadness.
zero air.
SO. I cocked the hammer in case there was preload on the hammer, and began to fill.
HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS
right out of the breather for the regulator.
so then, I thought...hey... I'll fire it into a blanket or what ever that thing was my dear daughter dropped in the corner of the basement when she got home from her COVID infected college....
MAYBE if I fire and 'pop' the regulator a few times, it will seat any leaky o-rings.
yeah; no.
it helped a little. but no. still peeing air out the breather. (along with plenty of some sort of lube)
so before I take it alllll apart and reseal it, I'll call our friends on the other side of the continent...and see what they suggest.
I think it's just one of those flukes, though.
But I'll tell you, 90 duro o-rings are going back in when/if I reseal this. It's what I do on most of the rigs I have.
I am a little disappointed that I couldn't just take it out and fire off a couple rounds for effect...but this kind of thing happens.
Certainly not the end of the world.
I had to smile at the whole thing as THAT is exactly how the last few weeks have gone at work and at home.
ya got to have patience and just roll with what is given.
I will keep you all updated as I go with this pretty little rifle.
Pictures will be added as things progress, too.
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Almost the same thing happened with my gen 1 two years ago, swapped three different actions with Aim Sports and all three leaked past the regulator orings due to poor machining tolerances. You could tell they knew about it at the plant because they tried to resolve it using a mesh tape to fill the void and shim the orings. Makes me question now if they're trying to reuse some old parts instead of machining all new pieces. I went through about $20 worth of different orings including 90 duro and urethane and none of them would stop the leak at the vent hole.
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Tom,
Is the regulator vent that tiny hole about 4" from the end of the airtube? That suggests a large section of the airtube is regualtor and plenum, rather than full high pressure air storage.
Do you know what the other screws are in the image below? The left hex is the bleed screw, but what about the next one to the right? The little screw near the trigger guard on my DAR was loose, I left it where it was, assuming it was some sort of adjustment screw, rather than a fastener.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339052;image)
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Just got my DAR 25 and l am very disappointed. Gage read 0 which is always a bad sign. Tried to pump it up but just leaks out of the barrel.
Tried cocking it but it still leaks.
I’m going to call them tomorrow to return it and get my money back.
I thought this company might be different than the others but I guess I was wrong. 😫 I thought these guns were supposed to be checked for leaks before they were sent out ?
Now I read that they might be using old defective parts from the first generation gun. Any suggestions before I send it back ? 🤔
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I got my .25 DAR today... was very impressed with the wood and the overall fit and finish...then I looked at the gauge.
Sadness.
zero air.
SO. I cocked the hammer in case there was preload on the hammer, and began to fill.
HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS
right out of the breather for the regulator.
so then, I thought...hey... I'll fire it into a blanket or what ever that thing was my dear daughter dropped in the corner of the basement when she got home from her COVID infected college....
MAYBE if I fire and 'pop' the regulator a few times, it will seat any leaky o-rings.
yeah; no.
it helped a little. but no. still peeing air out the breather. (along with plenty of some sort of lube)
so before I take it alllll apart and reseal it, I'll call our friends on the other side of the continent...and see what they suggest.
I think it's just one of those flukes, though.
But I'll tell you, 90 duro o-rings are going back in when/if I reseal this. It's what I do on most of the rigs I have.
I am a little disappointed that I couldn't just take it out and fire off a couple rounds for effect...but this kind of thing happens.
Certainly not the end of the world.
I had to smile at the whole thing as THAT is exactly how the last few weeks have gone at work and at home.
ya got to have patience and just roll with what is given.
I will keep you all updated as I go with this pretty little rifle.
Pictures will be added as things progress, too.
Dont feel bad. Recieved mine 2 days ago and been working on it ever since. Finally got it sorted out and tuned to my liking.
Same here, i was able to get a magazine through it and started hissing out the breather hole. Swapped outer orings, hiss. Popped the reg out of the aluminum body and changed them, hiss. Pulled the reg apart changed the rings on the piston, hiss. At this point I'm getting red in the face! The replacement orings were rock hard and the the ones in the gun were extruded and brittle.
Last ditch effort was a 006 on the reg piston. Yahoo, no more leak! That stinking tiny oring was the culprit. Last place one would think.
Now, on to adjust the trigger. Whats going on here? Upside down it wont cock, right side up it will. There's a set screw in the back of the hammer that holds the cocking pin. Thats loose letting the pin move around. Tighten it up and good to go.
Chronograph time. Starting off very consistent. Liking what im seeing. Take it outside run a couple mag through it. Got quieter the last half mag. Thought i may be getting low on air. Nope! Air it back up, put it over the chronograph again...lost 100 fps and still dropping with each shot. What the heck! Short version... pulled the valve. Brass threaded bushing for the valve stem had backed almost completely out not letting hammer pop the valve open.I swear someone was hungover when they put this one together.
Good news is, after scrubbing the gunk out of the barrel and polishing with JB. She shoots lights out.
Not 100%. But i thik I used 210 orings on the aluminum reg spacer and 113 on the reg main body.
Just some things to check while you have it apart.
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Rod,
If you have a reason to open up your DAR again, please snap some pics and post them here; especially of the trouble areas. This thread about the Gen 1 DAR has some hints: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147313.msg1499568#msg1499568 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147313.msg1499568#msg1499568)
I saw those tiny o-rings in the bag of spares. Had to smile at who would choose to use them in any mechanism. One could inhale one of those without even triggering the coughing reflex... :)
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My sources tell me you need an 18mmx75 thread to add an adapter to the DAR.
For what it's worth the major diameter on the end cap I measured was 18.42mm so it appears to be 18.5mm nominal. Odd, I thought.
The minor diameter of the tube measured 17.83mm which at a minimum tells me an M18 would not give adequate thread engagement.
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Makes me question now if they're trying to reuse some old parts instead of machining all new pieces.
I certainly don't want to attempt to minimize the frustration you're dealing with but the regulator in the gen 2 is a new design so I don't think they're trying to cut corners and repurpose old parts.
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I have no dog in this fight but that's good to hear for those who have purchased one. I know it's a different manufacturer in China that makes the Liberty, Avenger, and Origen, yet they have used many same problematic parts, wouldn't surprise me if the DAR manufacturer had done some of the same on the gen2, but I hope not. It does raise an eyebrow though when I see new gen2 owners dealing with the same issue I had on a gen1 though.
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NOT VERY HAPPY, right now............ >:( CHECK ALL YOUR SCREWS, everyone was loose on my DAR 17.
I pulled out my Gen 2 Dar, 177 cal and decided to clean the bbl, then mounted the scope,
set up a 4' sq target, put a 1/2" black dot in the center and fired 3 shots, couldn't see any hits thru the scope,
walk out and checked, NO pellet holes in the target, WTH...................... >:(
Checked the Dar and found the shroud loose and the bbl kinda flopped around,
pulled the scope and the bbl set screws were all loose, tighten them down, remounted the scope,
fired 3 rds at 25yds again, saw a splash off the left side of the target,
what's is going on, checked the target stand a found a pellet lead mark on the pipe stand, 2' to the left @ 25 yds!!
The sun has gone down, so I took it to the bench, and started tearing it apart, FOUND the problem, I think....
the the bbl band was twisted to the left about 1/4"+ from Dead center, the 2 set screws on the plenum tube were tight,
when I loosen them up the bbl/shroud snapped to the right going to TDC above the plenum tube..........
Since I was this far into it, I decided to remove the bbl and check both ends, very good bevels at both ends,
a little sharp on the chamber leading edge, (will smooth/polish that out) the rest of the bbl looks very good.
Here is a little info found,
bbl is a HD bbl, 16-7/8" long, the diameter is .595" diameter, the chamber end is turned down,
to fit the receiver, there is a "O" ring in the chamber end of the bbl, the bolt probe seals against,
the muzzle end is also turned down, Unknown twist at this time.
The first square shroud bushing slides over this stub, and the other 5 round shroud bushings,
stack end to end on top of the square bushing, and then a cover plate is threaded into the shroud/muzzle end,
to hold all the bushings together, the hole diameter thru the bushings and muzzle hole is .220" diameter.
There is a very THIN diameter "O" ring, .030" thick, under the bbl band that centers the shroud,
it breaks very easily, just removing the shroud, don't ask how I know.............LOL
The thread diameter of the muzzle plug measures 8.? x .075mm (.724" x .075mm tpi),
it is the same on both end of the shroud,
there is a slip on threaded bushing (same as above) and 3 tiny set screws to lock the bushing onto the bbl,
on the chamber end.
More info tomorrow, after I cool down.............. ::)
Tia,
Don
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It really seems to be a well made rifle. Simple to work on when it comes time to replace an oring. The reg is outstanding. Looks darn neer like a Huma. Valve body reminds me of my cricket. Action is smooth and darn accurate to boot.
Suppose I'd rather have loose screws to tighten than stripped out and loctite on everything. Its going to be a fine rifle, they just need to pay a little closer attention on assembly.
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I understand wanting to tinker with them but maybe it would be better to resist the urge, and just get a refund/replacement from DAR if you happen to receive a problem gun? DAR has already demonstrated (via the refund/replacement offer on the Gen 1) that they're serious about making customers happy. Ever heard of another Chinese manufacturer who offered to take that big of a hit to their bottom line?
I wouldn't expect ANY manufacturer to honor a warrantee after an end user took a gun apart to "fix" it. At that point, they can't really know if it was bad from the factory, or if you did something to make an issue more expensive for them to repair.
Heck, maybe the Gen 3 will be a winner. ;)
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I bought the .22 , and .25 DAR and so far every thing is performing fantastic for a 300 buck gun's .... in fact we had so much fun shooting them at thanksgiving my brother bought the DAR .22 ... Saturday I will set it up scope wise , and see how it does this is his first PCP so cross my fingers ! ... ;D I got him to jump down our rabbit hole ! LOL ! ;D what did I do ? .. ;)
My guns new after cleaning the barrel's shoot as good as the Avenger guns or even better , the .22 DAR for some reason loves cheap crosman 14.3 hallow point that you can get at walmart for 6 bucks ,and change for 500 .... AND I mean super consistent accurate dime size groups or hole threw hole at 50 yards with the cheap ammo ... never had a gun shoot that stuff so well , NOE hunter 20g does very good that I cast myself , Barracuda's dead on all day .... The .25 DAR likes the jsb 25.39 ,and shoots with my gm barrel .25 1st gen mrod that is as accurate as you can hold it still out past 70 yards hit a fly at over 70 on my target paper ,and the DAR .25 is just sick accurate like that , the scope CP 3x12x44 glass etched retical has turned out to be a real good match for that gun Rick shooter 1721 was right about that scope being about the best bang for the buck for these low budget guns , or even higher end guns for that matter to me thinking about it ...
so ....- so far so good , I really have no complaints so far , and I really like both gun's very well . and very impressed with both guns so far , glad I bought both .22 and .25 DAR guns so far ....
I had a problem with a new gun I got today ... NO not a DAR but a German Lother- Walther MaximaThor .25 it came in today new in the box from Umarex ,and they do not air up the guns at all .and test them like they should ... ::) ::) ::) ::) OH YEAH ! ::) so I get this new pretty darn nice German gun with beautiful Italian wood stock ! , and its a bad leaker ! ::) ::) ::) you could hear it out the barrel if you had the probe all the way in and if you pulled the probe out it leaked out the breech end of the barrel .... that told me it was the poppet hanging open from all my experience of 20 yrs in the game ,and I did have the gun cocked with I thought enough pressure off the hammer, and spring being pulled all the way back to close the poppet and get the air pressure up ,
so I was able to remove the air tube off the gun then aired it up off the gun and WALLA ! it held AIR ! installed the air cylinder back on the gun , and its held perfect for 8 hour's so far ,and the gun fir's correctly , so some how the hammer was still putting just enough weight on the poppet pin to keep it from sealing to hold air pressure ....
another old trick I have used to seal up empty guns in the past that didn't want to seal up was to hold the gun vertical tap the but of the stock on the floor while filling it from scba tank with the gun cocked , that way you get gravity to work ,and help you seal up things ... ;)
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Posting useful info and pics I found at a two year old DAR thread:
Here' some more pics of the innards,
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/reg%201_zpscaa5rybn.jpg)
The Regulator looks to be well built and is externally adjustable for output pressure.
I will be adjusting this for a little greater output pressure before reassembly. Unfortunately, I do not yet have a test rig yet for setting output pressure, so I wont know the actual pressure I change it to, and will just have to rely on chrony readings and shot strings. Maybe Bob will be able to apply some mathematical wizardry once I get those numbers to compare to the first shot strings.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/reg%202_zps3pfmuwfi.jpg)
The Plenum is a simple straight piece of anodized(?) aluminum.
It measures .830 ID and is 1.570 long
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/DAR%202_zps0uwbuurm.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/DAR%203_zpskzio9ce4.jpg)
ok, so I've take the trigger assembly apart to determine if I can do some polishing of contact points. Hopefully some improvement can be made to the feel and weight of the second stage. Since I have not yet seen any good pics of the parts laid out, I took these to share with all who may be considering doing the same thing.
Removal of the Cocking Lever Pivot Pin
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%204_zpseqscryzu.jpg)
Pic showing Pivot Pin removed, and small shim (non factory part) used to reduce some of the floppy motion the Cocking Lever was experiencing. The shim was made from a blown burst disk.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%203_zpsfkohgwnp.jpg)
Remove Trigger Pivot Pin and the Trigger slides out the bottom of the Trigger Assembly.
Note placement of the attached Spring. Also note the thin factory Shims on each side of the Trigger Blade.
Do not lose these, ... you will need them to prevent the trigger from being too wobbly.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%209_zpskptssanp.jpg)
You must also remove the Pin that is just forward of the Trigger Pivot Pin.
This is to allow clearance for removal of the Sear Catch.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%2010_zpswxoetwts.jpg)
Next remove the Sear Catch Pivot Pin, and remove the Sear Catch.
Be careful not to stretch the little springs.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%2012_zpsrkl2uvmt.jpg)
Next remove the rear plug from the mono block and the Hammer Spring.
I dont have a pic of that, but it's pretty basic. The rear Plug just unscrews, and the trigger spring comes right out.
Next position the hammer so that You can see the Cocking Pin screwed into the Brass Bolt Body.
Remove this pin from the Brass Bolt Body using appropriate Allen Wrench. Loosen the Allen Screw locatedin the rear of to Hammer to allow the Sear Catch Pin to be removed from the Hammer. Remove the Sear Catch Pin and slide the Brass Bolt and the Hammer through the back of the mono block.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%202_zpsvzmrtbge.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%201_zpsxxxdwbhe.jpg)
Trigger Parts Orientation,
Now ready for a little detailed cleanup and polishing job of all mating contact surfaces
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%208_zpsf0gauxpa.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%207_zps3lzmltk2.jpg)
Thanks for the pics of the internals.... It looks like the regulator fits inside the plenum a short distance, maybe 0.2"?.... That would result in a plenum volume of about 12 cc.... Do you have any idea how much volume there is inside the valve, or the back of the regulator, which would add to that plenum?.... That's pretty small for a .25 cal, IMO....
Bob
Yeah, I'd guess about 0.2 .
Unfortunately, I put the gun back together tonight before seeing this post, so I cant measure it right now.
I'll be shooting it tomorrow to test out my polish/lube job on he trigger, as well as my adjustment to the reg.
No doubt, I'll be taking it back apart after this weekends testing, so I'll try to get you those measurements next time it comes apart. I did feel the plenum was a tad small too, once I saw it.
Here's some picks of the valve before I put it back together.
Upon removal of the valve, I did find the Brass Pin Guide to be loose, as well as the Retaining Cap for the Poppet Spring (on the opposite end of the valve). I will be using some blue loctite on reassembly to prevent this happening again.
The exhaust port is pretty big, measuring .223 - .224 . Next time I have it apart,I will do a little Dremel work to radius the bottom of the port to the throat of the valve.
The valve slides into the monoblock, it i sealed with 2 o-rings, and is held in place with two indexing screws on the lower side. One screw doubles as the Stock Mounting Lug. This makes the port alignment to the monoblock a easy no-brainer. The port in the monoblock meas. .223, and the port in the barrel meas. .221
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%201_zpsdpkvnor9.jpg)
The hole on the "shoulder" of the valve is a pressure bleeder for Degassing. It has a grub screw plug.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%203_zpssjatjjdc.jpg)
Nothing exotic going on inside, standard Poppet and Spring.
I will say, the Poppet Spring in this thing is SERIOUSLY STIFF ! ! ! (too stiff IMO), but we'll mess with that at a later time.
The Retainer Cap (valve inlet) has 4 (small) holes. I think they can be opened up a little more, which we'll also do later.
I did notice the Retainer Cap does not have any sort of pin/groove/shoulder/etc. to keep the Poppet Spring on center. I see this as a potential problem as it allows the Poppet Spring to go off-center, and thus, applying a side-load to the head of the Poppet.
This could be something that needs to be addressed in future models.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%204_zpsgrlfuywx.jpg)
Here's a nice little feature,
The hammer tube in the monoblock, is "lined" with a hard plastic/delrin(?) sleeve. This prevents the steel hammer from touching the aluminum monoblock. Pretty cool, I think. No internal "marring" or damage to the monoblock, and very slippery slide for the hammer.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%202_zps5hiyahqz.jpg)[/URL]
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Useful O-ring info:
Guys, if anyone is struggling with a leak, here are my detailed O-ring notes so far. You'll see plenty of improvisation but there are many ways to get air to stay where you want it so by all means experiment with it. This is just what has worked for me.
Regulator body: 2ea -117 90 durometer. The original high side O-ring, an M2.5x20 estimated 50 durometer, extruded after a few days and dumped all the air through the atmospheric vent hole.
Regulator spool, top: -012 90 durometer, very snug but didn't shear on installation. Original was M1.5x9 and was sloughing off material after ~400 pellets through the rifle.
Regulator spool, bottom: -007 90 durometer with OD abraded to about 0.260" to fit inside groove of brass ring. Original is M1.5x4.
tube caps: 2ea -117 90 durometer. Others reported using 70 durometer with success; doesn't seem this one is apt to extrude like the ones on the regulator body.
air tube (into receiver): M2x14 70 durometer. Originals appear to be M1.5x17 and are a loose fit...didn't feel adequate when inserting the tube into the receiver. The M2x14 stretches a bit to install, and the resulting fit to the receiver is snug. 90 durometer would probably get cut.
fill probe: Factory ones are M1.5x3mm estimated 50 durometer. They leak for the first 2 or 3 pump strokes until enough pressure has built for them to seal. A 90 durometer of the same size would probably work _if_ it can be installed without tearing (has to stretch quite a bit...polyurethane might survive). Ended up using -005 in 70 durometer with the ID abraded to match that of the metric. Seals right away.
barrel band: M1 x 20
fill port: -007 (from memory, maybe -006...original had failed). Bring the tapered screw down onto it with just a slight amount of interference.
barrel .25cal (seals to bolt probe): -902 90 durometer (actual dimensions .240" ID .370 OD)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051XZBVO (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051XZBVO)
Tricky to install. Seated a pellet into the leade, then inserted a short segment cut from a 1/4 dowel to fill the portion beyond the O-ring groove. Then used a pick to work the O-ring into the groove. The 90 durometer seems to be holding up well.
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One the Gen 1's some had that straight poppet spring and others had a cone shaped spring. I found the cone shaped spring stayed centered and worked much better. Anyone delve into the Gen 2 that far to see what the internals if the GEN 2 valve look like?
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One the Gen 1's some had that straight poppet spring and others had a cone shaped spring. I found the cone shaped spring stayed centered and worked much better. Anyone delve into the Gen 2 that far to see what the internals if the GEN 2 valve look like?
Cone shaped spring and a nice brass insert for the poppet to seal against. Also the insert for the valve pin sets flush now. I did burnish the valve and sealing surface. Was having a hard time sealing up from empty with the compressor.
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Good to know! Sounds like they really went above and beyond on the Gen 2’s!
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Don, I had issues with most of the screws on my .25 cal DAR being loose as well. After getting everything snugged up and monitoring for leaks, looks like I might have a keeper. I have now shot several mags over the chrony and the regulator seems to be pretty consistent, falling off the reg at about 140, and shooting right at 48 ft lbs with H&N Baracuda out of the box. Now that I know it is a keeper I will clean the barrel tonight and mount an optic for some shooting tomorrow. At this power level, the gun is louder than my SPA M16 which is tuned to the same power level, not backyard frieldly unless your neighbors shoot airguns too. :P
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I told you all I would update on the no air in the rifle and not holding air.
here's how it went.
I called our friends at Aim Sports, spoke with Ryan and Mike.
After describing the symptoms, we settled on the likely culprit being the small internal regulator o-ring.
I happen to have 4,286,355 o-rings ...plus or minus a few :o...laying about in various collections and I happened to have a 90 Buna sized just right... no idea what the number is---though "Subscriber" reposted "Nervoustrigger's" post about the sizes it right above this post.
It took the following tools.
1.5 mm hex key for the barrel band
5mm hex wrench for the stock screw
1.2mm tip retaining ring pliers for the regulator disassembly
a curved dental tool for removing the o-rings
and that's it.
taking the reservoir off was very easy. with zero pressure in it...all it took was a simple unscrewing of the reservoir (leaving the valve IN the receiver block and unscrewing the fill port assembly on the front), removing the plenum tube and gently pushing the regulator out with a dowel. Too easy.
I cleaned the excess lubricant from the inside and blew out any possible foreign debris, reassembled with a small amount of silicone spray on the o-rings and voila!
reservoir holds air perfectly and the whole process took about a half hour, from thought to completion.
All I can say about Mike and Aim Sports is that I received excellent customer service and no hassles.
Mike and Ryan were very accommodating, and it felt like genuine concern over how to help.
Kudos Aim Sports!
NOW to begin the process of mounting some optics, and running this through the paces.
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Good for you. Enjoy
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That was one thing I remember and really liked about the Dar, they were easy to work on. I think they need a little something on that brass threaded insert on the valve tho to keep it in place, Locktite may make the soft brass hard to remove without damage but I remember how loose the gen 1 was too.
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In reading through those two year old threads, I remember someone looking for replacement cone springs. I assume they had exhausted the obvious sources, such as McMaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/conical-springs/confined-space-conical-compression-springs/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/conical-springs/confined-space-conical-compression-springs/)
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Hey Guys
Any Idea of what is going on,
I got my DAR out and had oil running down the plenum, was sitting in the corner of the day room.
Wiped it off and it's still leaking oil from the plenum tube,
there is a very tiny pin hole about 3.5" above the action, right side of the tube......... :o >:(
I have a BAD feeling about this DAR 177, and I have only fired 6 rounds thru it so far.
Tia,
Don
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Hey Guys
Any Idea of what is going on,
I got my DAR out and had oil running down the plenum, was sitting in the corner of the day room.
Wiped it off and it's still leaking oil from the plenum tube,
there is a very tiny pin hole about 3.5" above the action, right side of the tube......... :o >:(
I have a BAD feeling about this DAR 177, and I have only fired 6 rounds thru it so far.
Tia,
Don
Probably a very slow leak pushing the silicone oil out. They weren't stingy with it on assembly.
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Hey Guys
Any Idea of what is going on,
I got my DAR out and had oil running down the plenum, was sitting in the corner of the day room.
Wiped it off and it's still leaking oil from the plenum tube,
there is a very tiny pin hole about 3.5" above the action, right side of the tube......... :o >:(
I have a BAD feeling about this DAR 177, and I have only fired 6 rounds thru it so far.
Tia,
Don
SO based on mine, I would say that's silicone oil that is excessively employed throughout the inside of these things.
unless you see a major change in performance, I would just keep wiping it away....and keep shooting.
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Thanks Will
The BIG question I have is how can this pressure tube hold air with a hole in it?????????
It has approx 1500 psi in the pressure/plenum tube, right now..............
Don
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Don,
The pin hole is the vent of the regulator. The reg uses atmospheric pressure as its reference. I think the oil may be coming from that small hole. It could be a warning sign that the small O-ring on the regulator is about to let go. Some clever people have explained how easy it is to replace that.
Yes, it is annoying if that happens on a new airgun, but it may be why they are so cheap. The manufacturer saved a whole dollar by using cheap O-rings...
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Silicone oil will wick aggressively on its own. Meaning with no leak to help it along. Just monitor the pressure for a loss.
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IMO shoot it "Like with a car blow the
carbon silicone oil out.
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That pinhole in the air tube is the vent for the regulator, they obviously used a lot of silicone oil when installing the reg, the air expansion on the seals is pushing the excess out. You should be fine as long as there's no air coming out the vent. Do a spit test on the hole for bubbles.
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Maybe we need to come up with ,and o ring list for this gun and a place to buy new higher quality ones , so we can replace the low quality ones with good quality ones ... to make this more simple for our forum members that buy this gun ... ;)
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Maybe we need to come up with ,and o ring list for this gun and a place to buy new higher quality ones , so we can replace the low quality ones with good quality ones ... to make this more simple for our forum members that buy this gun ... ;)
Not a bad idea, then unlike the Nova Vista gun distributors, There will be normal wear parts readily available possibly right from DAR and partners.
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Maybe we need to come up with ,and o ring list for this gun
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409)
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so all the o rings from the gen 1 DAR are the same as the gen 2 ?
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Are there parts available for these guns ??? If not the guns are garbage I think cause with the originals it was the same problem, you couldn't buy parts for them. My .25 was basically garbage out of the box with an over tightened degas screw that's stripped out, I do have some JB weld coming to try fixing it.
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so all the o rings from the gen 1 DAR are the same as the gen 2 ?
While some parts such as the valve are not identical, I suspect that over 95% of the O-rings are the same. So, Gen1 O-ring list still useful. What is hopefully different, is that the Gen2 O-rings were made from something closer to rubber instead of snail snot... Else we will all be replacing O-rings sooner than later.
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Wayne, have you tried giving Aim Sports a phone call? It sounds like those who have, have been impressed by their customer service. What do you have to lose besides a few minutes of your time?
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So far so good with my gen2 .177, been treating it like a truck gun for the occasional pest on the farm at the moment. Holding air and still consistent on reg. settings. But o rings are a wear item, and they can easily get buggered up on an assembly line, but not show it untill it gets in the hands of the end user.
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Got a few quick shots in b4 it got dark. Using one of my test springs, very similar to stock but cut to 1.5 in long. Shooting JSB 10.3 gr at 875 fps at 40yards .32 size group 10 shot group. Very impressive!!! I ordered 3 different style of 13gr Griffin Slugs today and hopefully will have a winner with one. ;D
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Thanks Guys,
for the info about the leaking oil, from the plenum/pressure tube, as I was breaking out the shipping box,
for a return. I'll keep on doing the test I have started, as I found 3 different can of 177 pellets.
I plan of shooting 3 different weights on the OEM stock hammer spring and repeat this test with a Flat wire spring etc.
I have contacted Ryan (12/10) about a diagram etc, per my conversation with him, he said that a exploded diagram,
would be posted on the Dar site under the Tech section, so good "O" rings can be gotten from the "O" Ring Store.
So far I have not heard back from him yet..........
I am measuring the small packet of "O" rings that came with the rifle, so far it is with questionable results,
the "O" ring that goes between the shroud and bracket is proving hard to find.....so far.
Thanks,
Don
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Thanks for the picture Steve - inserted below at full size.
The SPA looks svelte compared to the DAR.
While coring out the stock will remove weight, I think my problem with the feel of the DAR is the high center of gravity. That would be improved by sliming down the stock, so that one's hand is nearer the center of gravity of the metal parts.
While the SPA's stock design looks much better here, I think the depth of wood just ahead of the trigger guard is "excessive". Styling is one thing; ergonomics another.
To me, the HW50 is just about perfect in feel. The HW50 is 0.1 lb lighter than the DAR, but somehow feels much lighter in one hand. This impression goes away when held level and upright with both hands. I think this has to do with the difference in moment when canted over, by having the metal parts "high" in the DAR, and the moment that has to be resisted when the rifle is held in one hand; non-orthogonal with the center of the earth.
I noticed this moment when fitting even a small optic to my Marauder pistol. That it feels a lot more "tippy", rather than heavy. I don't like that sensation - something that you guys with large scopes probably don't even notice anymore. You probably just use that sensation as a feature, to ensure you don't cant the rifle :)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339076;image)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J0JJ74jb-Qk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Another PCP that feels great to me is the Stormrider - below. Its stock is actually reminiscent of both your SPA and the DAR; yet feels svelte. I think that it is because the stock, while "square" in section is very narrow, with all other dimensions except length of pull combining a solid, yet dainty feel. Part of that is the Stormrider's 5 lb weight. It is actually 1/2" longer than the DAR:
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/PY-4449_Diana-Stormrider-Multishot-PCP_1551363704.jpg)
I couldn't agree more on the chunky top heavy feel. While not the prettiest girl at the dance, it sure feels ten times better in the hand.
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So, Rod; you modified your DAR stock?
That was the "after" picture posted full size below?
How did you do it?
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339409;image)
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Are there parts available for these guns ??? If not the guns are garbage I think cause with the originals it was the same problem, you couldn't buy parts for them. My .25 was basically garbage out of the box with an over tightened degas screw that's stripped out, I do have some JB weld coming to try fixing it.
Wayne You should call Ryan up ,and tell him what happened , and either they send a new reg or send you a new gun is my thought ...
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My .25 was basically garbage out of the box with an over tightened degas screw that's stripped out, I do have some JB weld coming to try fixing it.
Wayne, can't the degas port be rethreaded with the next size up, SAE or Metric, bottom tap?
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Bob I tried using an easy out on it but it basically reamed it out more rather than back out so I'm going to try the fix that I was talking about, if that don't work I'll get hold of Ryan in hopes of getting that part which holds the valve assembly because that's what it screws in to. ??? That part isn't the same as what the Gen 1's are, if it was I have a spare but it don't work. The whole valve is different on them. Mine also had the cone shaped valve spring in it too.
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Bob I tried using an easy out on it but it basically reamed it out more rather than back out so I'm going to try the fix that I was talking about, if that don't work I'll get hold of Ryan in hopes of getting that part which holds the valve assembly because that's what it screws in to. ??? That part isn't the same as what the Gen 1's are, if it was I have a spare but it don't work. The whole valve is different on them. Mine also had the cone shaped valve spring in it too.
Wayne, is the little Allen de-gasser screw stripped and still in the regulator or the threads in the regulator stripped out?
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So, Rod; you modified your DAR stock?
That was the "after" picture posted full size below?
How did you do it?
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339409;image)
Yes. Table saw, jig saw and sand paper. Not the best pic and still need to top coat it. Feels like a different rifle now.
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The degassing screw is stuck, seized and it will not come out even with an easy out, to begin with it was super tight and I was able to unscrew it enough to degas. All I wanted to do was adjust the regulator so I could get more than ten shots and not doing close to 1000fps. The gun was terribly adjusted from the factory, it also has too much locktite everywhere, it was put together terribly !!!!!
That isn't the regulator that the degassing screw screws into, it's the valve housing basically.
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Rod
What is the weight of the stock now?
Looks to be very functional............ ;)
Tia,
Don
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The degassing screw is stuck, seized and it will not come out even with an easy out, to begin with it was super tight and I was able to unscrew it enough to degas. All I wanted to do was adjust the regulator so I could get more than ten shots and not doing close to 1000fps. The gun was terribly adjusted from the factory, it also has too much locktite everywhere, it was put together terribly !!!!!
That isn't the regulator that the degassing screw screws into, it's the valve housing basically.
Wayne call Ryan ,and send that gun back to AIM , or if he has the replacement part have him send it ...
My trigger adjust screw was locktited up , if I take my gun apart I will use a heat gun a bit to loosen the locktite up , any time I have metal thread's going into aluminum I actually use synthetic grease on the threads then torque to the correct amount ,
I learned this from building Jet ski racing motor's where you have stainless bolts threading into aluminum , and having to tear the motor's down every week to check ,or rebuild things if needed , and keep the threads in good shape , the only bolt I used locktite on was the flywheel to crank shaft bolt , and I heated it up every time I would remove the flywheel bolt .... and we never had and issue with motor bolts coming loose ...
I don't see to much on these air guns that should require locktite
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Rod
What is the weight of the stock now?
Looks to be very functional............ ;)
Tia,
Don
Sorry Don, dont have a scale. It seems to balance much better. Doesn't feel like your trying to balance a 2×4 up front. Wasn't happy with the look and took a little more off. Going to call it good.
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The slope looks MUCH better.
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Yes. Table saw, jig saw and sand paper. Not the best pic and still need to top coat it. Feels like a different rifle now.
Thanks
Is that the raw wood color underneath? It looks redder than I would imagine, or it that stained?
I will take a close look at the area around the stock attachment screw before doing anything, but I can't help wondering if the lump near the trigger guard is necessary? For strength or some other technical reason. Or perhaps that has some ergonomic function.
Anyway; it was brave of you to do this mod; and you pulled it off. Glad that you vindicated my very strong impression of why the feel is off on an otherwise light rifle.
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The slope looks MUCH better.
Yes. I was trying to ask about the guppy look without being insulting.
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The slope looks MUCH better.
Yes. I was trying to ask about the guppy look without being insulting.
Lol! I removed the tumor. Its stain. It is a hard wood, just not sure which kind.
Printing some baffles now to see if I can quite it down a little more.
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The degassing screw is stuck, seized and it will not come out even with an easy out...
I've called them "Maybe-outs" for decades, lol.
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Yes. I was trying to ask about the guppy look without being insulting.
I actually like the guppy look on a gun. Like the disco stock.
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For those of you wondering what happens when you tighten the little screw directly ahead of the trigger guard; it locks up the hammer so you can't cock the gun.
A days ago I snugged up that screw, along with a few others that seemed a little loose. This, while waiting for alternative hammer springs I ordered. When I went to change out the spring tonight, I could not cock the hammer. I had forgotten about tightening that screw because it didn't happen directly before trying to cock the gun. I actually thought some of the wicking locktite I applied to the cocking lever pivot, had somehow got where it wasn't needed.
Anyway, I thought that if the hammer won't move back, perhaps it would move forward. I managed to move it a little by tapping on the hammer. That opened the valve and depressurized the gun...
So, I thought; let me open it up and see what I managed to corrupt. Did not know if that little screw needed to come out, but removed it anyway. As soon as I had the barrel and airtank off, the hammer was free to move. Took me a bit of pondering to connect the dots...
Now, I don't know if that screw is intended as a hammer de-bouncer, or to make the gun inert for long term storage. All I can say is that I wish that someone in the 5 hours of DAR Gen 1 threads I read yesterday had mentioned it. Earlier in this thread I asked about the screw, but I suppose my posts are too long to read...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339052;image)
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As an addendum to the above post, I figured out what that little screw is for:
It retains the while plastic liner the hammer slides in.
I deliberately turned the screw in far enough to see it in the hammer channels in the first image below.
In the next image, I had backed out the screw another half a turn beyond where the hammer was just free to move. Then, the grub screw's "head" is about flush with the receiver. I applied a drop of wicking locktite to the screw; wiped off the excess, and lay the receiver on its side; so only wicking forces would take the "glue" further into and between the threads.
Nipping this screw even gently stops the hammer from being cocked. Turning the screw in with the hammer cocked would prevent the hammer from striking the valve.
An exploded parts diagram would be so very useful...
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Good pic's ... nice to see what is inside ,and how it all works thanks for posting those pics ,.... I just got done working on my brother's new DAR .22 ... scope is mounted a few things lubed up- cleaned the barrel ,and we are ready to shoot tomorrow ,and dial this gun in all they way... he's going to really enjoy this one it's his first PCP ...
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As an addendum to the above post, I figured out what that little screw is for:
It retains the while plastic liner the hammer slides in.
Thanks.....good information.
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I really like the concept of the plastic sleeve for the hammer to ride in, I wish other manufacturers would take note of this and incorporate it in their designs,
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I really like the concept of the plastic sleeve for the hammer to ride in, I wish other manufacturers would take note of this and incorporate it in their designs,
That is what impressed me as well, and that is also the reason why I purchased a DAR I and now a DAR II.
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I don't have one, but my rifles also have the gauge in the suicide position.. I keep a dental, mechanics mirror in my rifle case to check the gauge...
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Sub
Here is some conical springs, I got some for my poppet shaft springs, I don't remember the size,
off hand........... ;),
I could not keep them locked on the poppet shaft, the way I was locking them on.......... ::)
Here is the spec's/dimensions of the extra one I have:
Base dia .520", height = .520", top of spring diameter = .240", round wire dia = .016", very soft action.
I bought this from Zorro comp.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=conical+springs&_sacat=42905&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=conical+springs&_sacat=42905&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1)
HTH's,
Don
In reading through those two year old threads, I remember someone looking for replacement cone springs. I assume they had exhausted the obvious sources, such as McMaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/conical-springs/confined-space-conical-compression-springs/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/conical-springs/confined-space-conical-compression-springs/)
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Now that I have the DAR back together, I have opportunity to share some pics I snapped in haste when I had it apart:
The barrel is 17.75" from breech to muzzle. As the transfer port is in from the breech end, the effective length is a probably closer to 17".
Considering the barrel so heavy, why on earth did they machine down the last inch to 9.3 mm in diameter? It seems like an invitation to bend the barrel, if you banged the shroud at the muzzle.
Yes, that barrel stub carries the square section part, a rather restrictive looking 4-channel vent to the rear of the shroud, that you see in my hand with the baffles. The radial space between the barrel OD and shroud ID is only about 1/16". Not a very large volume, and not a very direct flow from the first baffle to get there.
There are 5 baffles; each 24 mm long from shoulder to shoulder (they nest to align to each other). They are not a very close fit in the shroud ID. Before you tighten the baffle capture nut, you can get the shroud to move sideways, back and forth with an obvious clunk, until all the end-space slack is taken up with the nut. Perhaps winding tape around the baffles could make them align with the shroud better. Then again, it depends on if you are a believer in free floating shrouds, independent of the barrel...
By the way, how tight should that retainer nut with the two holes (red arrows) be? I just used an Allen wrench to drive it, with about 10 lb at a tangent (perhaps 3 inch.lb), alternating between holes.
The center hole in the baffles is a tight 5.53 mm. The endcap's ID is 5.6 mm. That part is begging to be back bored to act as one last baffle, rather than have a long tight path for the pellet to fly through.
I had a hard time seeing the muzzle, so I took a bunch of flash pictures, hoping to get a clear one. From the few I am showing here, I get the impression that the crown is off center. Apparently not the only one...
All things considered, if the DAR rifles shoot accurately and are quiet, then all the above criticisms seem somewhat watered down; despite many details seeming less than ideal.
PS. The bore is much smoother than that picture taken from the breech suggests. That part of the image was dark until I boosted the Gamma. Hence the image grain is making the barrel look less than glossy - which it appears when you look through it into a light directly. I was hoping to catch a glimpse of the chamber throat in that picture. One can see something, but perhaps not enough.
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Now that I have the DAR back together, I have opportunity to share some pics I snapped in haste when I had it apart:
Thanks for the photos and your detailed report.
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I'm wondering if a spring in place of the baffle retainer would be better? Like in the Mrod, so the baffles actually have room to separate and allow air to flow back into the shroud. Rocker1 sent me some of his K Baffle to try, I got them sanded and drilled yesterday, but hive not had a chance to test them yet. I know where made my Mrod quieter than the standard baffles.
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I think that a spring pushing the baffles forward could work. It would accommodate the differences in thermal expansion between the steel barrel and the aluminum shroud. Locking the parts down with threaded "nuts" is asking for a temperature sensitive point of impact...
Pushing the baffles backward would require a spring strong enough to prevent the baffles from slapping back and forth on every shot. Clacking noises may be worse than popping noises.
Despite the primitive arrangement, the DAR's baffles seems to work rather well. The simplest improvement would be to make them with a 60 degree cone, rather than flat - just as was done with the Gen2 Marauder over the Ge1 Marauder.
The shroud ID is rather small. It limits one in using many of the otherwise clever airflow "improvements". Can't hurt to try something else.
I notice that the stock DAR baffles have very thin walls. At first I thought they were aluminum. However, I am pretty sure they are just a dense stiff plastic. Much more space efficient than a thick-walled filament welded 3D print would be.
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got my .25 mostly sighted in over the weekend, but having a hard time getting consistent groups due to the trigger. The adjustment screw makes very little difference, at least until you turn it in too far and can't cock the gun. How do you get to the trigger? With the stock off, I removed the two bolts at the bottom of the trigger guard, but it's still tight -- do you need to punch out those roll pins to get the trigger guard off?
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Someone said you can take the action out of the stock and through the back of the trigger housing put some grease on the components which helped greatly. I don't remember my Gen 1 having a stiff trigger pull after adjusting, although you may like yous lighter than I had mine.
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How do you get to the trigger? With the stock off, I removed the two bolts at the bottom of the trigger guard, but it's still tight -- do you need to punch out those roll pins to get the trigger guard off?
This part of an old thread may help: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1489762#msg1489762 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1489762#msg1489762)
Else, you could try "boosting" your trigger:
Take the cap off the back of the receiver and remove the hammer spring. Get a rod or tube that fits inside the hammer spring seat. 6" long should be enough. Longer OK too.
Cock the hammer and close the cocking lever. Place the rod end against the hammer, in the spring seat. Push down on the rod with perhaps 25 to 50 lb (estimate 50 to 100 % more force than the cocked hammer spring normally does). While applying that greater than normal cocking force, release the hammer with the trigger. Repeat 10 times.
Reinstall the hammer spring and cap. Cock the hammer and release the trigger. If you have depressurized your gun, do not dry fire; else the hammer blow to the valve is not cushioned. Then, hold the cocking lever open, just at the point where the sear clicks, so releasing the trigger slides the sear at full hammer spring force, but does not allow the hammer to slam forwards.
I would lubricate the sear area generously before boosting. The idea is to burnish the steel surfaces, not gall them. The latter is more likely if the parts are dry. Any lube other than silicone oil should do. Molly grease or oil should prevent galling, while still letting burnishing pressure through.
If boosting at a given force does not improve matters, increase the force by 50%; and so on; until you feel like something will break, or you run out of strength. Remember that the force at the cocking lever is less than at the hammer... Try compressing the hammer spring to its cocked length to get an idea of what 100% force is.
Or, you could figure out how to take the trigger apart to get to the sear. From memory after reading the linked thread, getting it back together can be tricky.
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I made my triggers way better by taking off the stock there is a rectangular hole area in the back of the trigger assembly- that if you look inside you can see the sear part click into the hammer if you pull the lever back but not quite cocked you can see that part that clicks into the hammer ,
I put a small dab of synthetic grease right on that part that clicks into the hammer , and then cycled the trigger over 200 time's by cocking the gun hanging on to the open lever so the hammer does not smack and fire the valve off ,and pulling the trigger cocked this way , so the parts are lubed while breaking in to each other , after doing this over 200 times -ad another very small dab of grease to that part again , and you should see a big difference in the way the trigger acts .... very simple ,and you don't even have to take much apart except taking off the stock ... ;)
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Thanks Dan,
Your trigger break-in sounds less aggressive than mine, but essentially states that using the gun a lot (even without shooting pellets) will improve it.
I would add that if your method does not work for extreme cases, such owners should turn in the hammer spring cap as far as it will go, while still allowing the gun to cock. Higher contact pressure, lubed should displace the metal sticking up.
If that metal wants to wear off, rather than be smeared down, that is OK too. As long as it does not kick up metal and try to cold weld to the mating part. That is where the lube comes in...
Funny thing; half of gun owners believe that lubing the trigger mechanism is bad. I believe that any steel surface that is not sealed should have oil or grease on it to prevent corrosion.
A much more aggressive method would be to add JB compound to those surfaces :). That would the need to be flushed out after the desired results were achieved, or the trigger was completely messed up; and needed to be opened anyway.
My mineral oil lubed trigger now has just a hint of a "pop" before actually breaking. It is close enough to good that I don't feel the need to take it apart and polish surfaces that will polish themselves. You just offered a way to accelerate that, that does not seem abusive.
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Can any of you turn the trigger adjustment screw in far enough that the gun will discharge? Actually take the second stage creep out?
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Rod,
I have not tried to see what the limit is for turning in that screw. The manual warns about it, so I stopped before I thought I was close. Perhaps, I need to find out if turning the screw in will eventually eliminate the sear engagement depth, and discharge the gun. Else, how does one know how close you are...
This will have to wait until I have the energy to pump the gun up from zero...
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Mine wouldn't. And suspect most dont. But if turned in too far, the gun would just not cock. Still had second stage creep.
Reference the pic.
The sear catch pin in the hammer was loose on mine making it worse. Turning it upside down let the pin seat deeper in the hammer, i then tightened it up. But still had second stage creep. I pulled the pin from the gun and took 1/2 mm off of the end where it catches the sear. I am now able to adjust the trigger screw in far enough where the gun will actually discharge. And actually eliminate the second stage creep.
In all reality, i probably could have taken it off the other end of the pin so it would seat deaper in the hammer. Essentially accomplishing the same effect.
I still have plenty of sear engagement, but i can now adjust it to the edge giving me a less creepy crisper break.
The allen in the back of the hammer holds the pin.
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Sub
By any chance did you get the dimensions of the hammer and it's weight?
Tia,
Don
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Thanks Rod,
Will check the screw in the hammer for tightness.
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Sorry Don,
I did not take it apart far enough to measure that.
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Sorry Don, didn't pull it. But seems fairly light.
I worked on mine today. I wanted a tune for 14 grain pellets at 900 fps for as many shots as i could get.
I opened up the barrel port to 3/16. Pulled the valve and matched it as close as i could to the port in the action. Ended up being 1/4. Turned the reg down to 100 bar. Was able to get 50 shots averaging 904. Last few shots run up to 912 before dropping back off to 894 on the last shot. A little hammer bounce though....with a shorter and softer spring i had cut down from a 1911 recoil spring.
Made a ssg. It worked. But its very tight in there and not much room to work with. Managed 60 shots on tr he reg at 900!
Im going to scrap the ssg idea though. I think i can get darn neer as good results with a stiff 1 1/2 spring. Just have to search and sorce one.
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Guys
Anyone have any experience at removing/stalling a bbl/chamber "O" ring?
The Dar's have one, I found out.............. ;)
I want to get it out, so I can order some GOOD "O" rings, as I am replacing all of them, before going any further.
And I'll give the chamber lip/lead a good looking over and polish if needed.
Rod
Are you using a flat wire recoil spring?
Tia,
Don
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Was able to get 50 shots averaging 904.
I think i can get darn neer as good results with a stiff 1 1/2 spring. Just have to search and sorce one.
I am impressed by that shotcount!
This spring may be exactly what you are looking for. I bought these springs with the intent to cut them, so I could have a wide range of hammer energy on the limited adjustment of the hammer spring endcap: https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K121/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K121/)
Spring Type Compression
System of Measurement Inch
Length 1.5"
OD 0.48"
ID 0.354"
Wire
Diameter 0.063"
Compressed Length @ Maximum Load 0.88"
Maximum Load 22.94 lbs.
Rate 37 lbs./in.
I cut two of them to 1.3", with a longer and shorter closed endcoils. Have not shot the gun yet, but cocking force at the minimum suggests I am going to see 14 FPE and up. I want to be able to go as low as 8 FPE to match and R7 for short range plinking.
I have a 1.25" long spring that already covers 2 to 16 FPE: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/)
Spring Type Compression
System of Measurement Inch
Length 1.25"
OD 0.42"
ID 0.326"
Wire
Diameter 0.047"
Compressed Length @ Maximum Load 0.68"
Maximum Load 11.4 lbs.
Rate 20 lbs./in.
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Guys
Anyone have any experience at removing/stalling a bbl/chamber "O" ring?
The Dar's have one, I found out.............. ;)
I want to get it out, so I can order some GOOD "O" rings, as I am replacing all of them, before going any further.
And I'll give the chamber lip/lead a good looking over and polish if needed.
Rod
Are you using a flat wire recoil spring?
Tia,
Don
Use a sewing needle to get it out. It will pierce it enough to lift it out but not destroy it. To replace it, run a cleaning jag and patch from the muzzle up to the groove. It will help it not fall below the groove and you can work it in.
I have some standard oring sizes that will work on the tube and reg parts. I'll post them up tomorrow.
Not flat wire. Just an 18.5 lb wilson. Which was a little softer than stock. How high does the flat wire go? 22?
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Was able to get 50 shots averaging 904.
I think i can get darn neer as good results with a stiff 1 1/2 spring. Just have to search and sorce one.
I am impressed by that shotcount!
This spring may be exactly what you are looking for. I bought these springs with the intent to cut them, so I could have a wide range of hammer energy on the limited adjustment of the hammer spring endcap: https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K121/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K121/)
Spring Type Compression
System of Measurement Inch
Length 1.5"
OD 0.48"
ID 0.354"
Wire
Diameter 0.063"
Compressed Length @ Maximum Load 0.88"
Maximum Load 22.94 lbs.
Rate 37 lbs./in.
I cut two of them to 1.3", with a longer and shorter closed endcoils. Have not shot the gun yet, but cocking force at the minimum suggests I am going to see 14 FPE and up. I want to be able to go as low as 8 FPE to match and R7 for short range plinking.
I have a 1.25" long spring that already covers 2 to 16 FPE: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/)
Spring Type Compression
System of Measurement Inch
Length 1.25"
OD 0.42"
ID 0.326"
Wire
Diameter 0.047"
Compressed Length @ Maximum Load 0.68"
Maximum Load 11.4 lbs.
Rate 20 lbs./in.
Lol. Just ordered the 1.5 along with a .50 OD before reading your post.
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Depending on caliber, you may be able to get O-ring out with a dental pick. You may want to round over sharp points or edges. You could make such a hook from wire:
www.amazon.com/Professional-Dental-Tarter-Scraper-Stainless/dp/B00KCXT7RC/ (http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Dental-Tarter-Scraper-Stainless/dp/B00KCXT7RC/)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XVMteffDL._AC_SL1369_.jpg)
Or the plastic equivalent:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0048KGFHU (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0048KGFHU)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51APj96u%2BqL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
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Lol. Just ordered the 1.5 along with a .50 OD before reading your post.
1/2" probably won't fit in the spring seat in the hammer. The hammer ID appears to be less than 12.7 mm... That means a 1/2" spring might drag on the plastic hammer liner. And sit skew...
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Lol. Just ordered the 1.5 along with a .50 OD before reading your post.
1/2" probably won't fit in the spring seat in the hammer. The hammer ID appears to be less than 12.7 mm... That means a 1/2" spring might drag on the plastic hammer liner. And sit skew...
My hammer sleeve measures .59 and hammer pocket .49.
Figured i could grind the od of the spring down where it enters the hammer .001 if i had too.
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Thanks Guys,
Rod
Those flat wire springs go up to 25 #'s and I think I seen some into the low 30# range.
They come in several lengths, > 5", 4", 3-1/2" plus all the different pistols like the Clock and Beretta etc.
I use quite a few of them, and for what it's worth, use the LONGEST length possible,
figure out the max length and then compress a full length spring to see if it will fit into the space needed,
a full length flat wire spring 5+" long goes coil bound at 1.030", a round coil spring will not make the grade..
If it won't fit then cut a couple coils and try again etc.
I have a 18# spring that I'll be using to start off with on my 177 DAR,
You can check out the flat wire springs here,
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=flat+wire+springs&_sacat=73944 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=flat+wire+springs&_sacat=73944)
HTH's,
Don
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My hammer sleeve measures .59 and hammer pocket .49.
Figured i could grind the od of the spring down where it enters the hammer .001 if i had too.
Delta of 0.01", or only .005" radially. That does not sound so bad. As long as you are aware of it.
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Don,
Not to dissuade you from experimenting with flat springs, but the shortest spring has the least energy in it when the hammer is at rest. That is typically better to reduce hammer bounce.
If you want the maximum hammer strike energy with the lowest peak cocking force, then a longer, softer spring "wins". Here a flat spring will allow more coils, without going into coil bind. Perhaps that is what you are after.
By the way; an "18 lb" recoil spring for a 1911 means an 18 lb force, when the slide is drawn all the way back. In other words, at minimum functional height (short of coil bind). This is not to be confused with spring rate, measured in lb/inch.
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Here's some oring sizes that have worked for me. Have had the reg out numerous times and all still seal.
Black reg spacer /sleave that fit the tube. Should work at either end of the tube on the valve housing and fill cap. I did have to break the sharp edge in the tube just past the threads. Used 220 grit and smoothed the sharp edge. Size 210
Reg body size 112.
Reg spool.... the part the belleville washers go over. The small one at the tip is a 006. The bottom part of the spool...the bigger end. I didn't have one on hand that fit.
Brass seat on top of the reg. The screw you use to adjust the pressure. Size 008.
These are sizes that worked for me on my rifle. More than likely stock were metric.
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Well, pulled the trigger back apart and polished all contact points. Its a very acceptable trigger now. Nice and crisp and if i had to guess, about a pound and a half.
Did a quick tune to see what it would do with something heavier than the 14's. Bumped the reg to 125 bar and was able to run the 18 jsb at 890 for 35 shots before falling off the reg. Could have definitely went higher.
Going to wait until my springs arrive before messing with the tune any more. My goal will be 50 shots at 900 with 16 grain jsb's.
All in all I think its a fine rifle for the money.
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Guys
Anyone have any experience at removing/stalling a bbl/chamber "O" ring?
The Dar's have one, I found out.............. ;)
I want to get it out, so I can order some GOOD "O" rings, as I am replacing all of them, before going any further.
And I'll give the chamber lip/lead a good looking over and polish if needed.
Rod
Are you using a flat wire recoil spring?
Tia,
Don
One person on this forum has suggested firing the rifle with the bolt partially open to eject the oring.
I haven't tried it but it does sound like fun.
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Firing it with the bolt open apparently transports the O-ring to another dimension. I did it in my workroom and that O-ring hasn’t surfaced in 18 months :)
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One person on this forum has suggested firing the rifle with the bolt partially open to eject the oring.
I haven't tried it but it does sound like fun.
Use one person's whoops and turn it into a method. Like unfixed software bugs being termed "features" :)
One may want to cushion the charging handle so it does not fly open and mangle something - although it may not even reach the end of its travel:
I wondered about the general lack of disconnectors for out of battery discharge on PCPs. Came to the conclusion that the bolt stroke while in the breech end of the barrel was too short to pick enough speed to cause real damage or harm. Probably the worst aspect would be hearing damage; or the potential for the O-ring to hit you in the eye. The bolt itself is unlikely to escape the mechanism.
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Firing it with the bolt open apparently transports the O-ring to another dimension. I did it in my workroom and that O-ring hasn’t surfaced in 18 months :)
So, it works for O-ring removal; but retrieval may be a little sketchy :)
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Actually, you're supposed to leave the bolt slightly open so that the oring ends up on the probe. It might take a few tries to develop the technique.
Hunter
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Actually, you're supposed to leave the bolt slightly open...
That is a better idea than having the bolt fully shut, but not latched. Much less force applied to drive it backwards.
The DAR .177 has a very long skinny probe tip that could be well into the O-ring, with the full diameter section of the bolt 3/8" beyond the O-ring. Don't see what harm can come from this except for the ear shattering noise.
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Will the bolt going forward strike any of the cocking pins/sear parts etc,
as they might be in the way of the bolt travel? :o
Something to think about?
Don
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Will the bolt going forward strike any of the cocking pins/sear parts etc,
as they might be in the way of the bolt travel? :o
Something to think about?
Don
Worth pondering; but as you can close the bolt with the hammer cocked, the bolt is not going to hit anything.
The hammer will hit the bolt, if the bolt is too far back when you pull the trigger on a cocked hammer. You can determine that point with the hammer decocked - it is the point where rearward bolt travel can be felt to start pulling the hammer back. At that point, even the thin part of the probe is further back than would capture the O-ring.
So, after doing this simple analysis, I am confident that the objective of sneezing out the breech O-ring can be reached, without hurting anything but your eardrums.
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A few questions.
Any hand pumpers own this gun? If so, how many pumps to fill originally and how many to refill after shooting the 25 or so shots that Dana mentions in his video review?
What pressure is the regulator set at?
Can the hammer preload be adjusted and if so, how easily?
Thanks
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A few questions.
Any hand pumpers own this gun? If so, how many pumps to fill originally and how many to refill after shooting the 25 or so shots that Dana mentions in his video review?
What pressure is the regulator set at?
Can the hammer preload be adjusted and if so, how easily?
Thanks
Charlie,
I am a soon to be ex-hand pumper. I am in the process of pumping up my DAR from flat and getting bored with it. So, I paused to go look for a compressor to buy. I pumped the DAR from 100 to 200 BAR in about 15 minutes, and it was hard work.
You can adjust the hammer strike easily. Remove the stock by unscrewing the single bolt. The cap at the back of the receiver houses the hammer spring. I have been playing around with different springs to back off from the stock setting of about 25 ft.lb in .177. One spring I have enabled the power to be set between 2.5 and 16.6 ft.lb.
Indications are that you could get 100 shots between 100 and 200 BAR at 10 to 12 ft.lb. At the very top end efficiency is lost, but your could probably get 50 shots at 20 ft.lb.
The regulators are factory adjusted (by caliber, apparently). Judging by the bearing surfaces of pellet skirts I recovered from clay, the reg pressure is no higher than 100 BAR - probably lower. People that have opened their guns have shown what appear to be reg settings written on the reg in indelible ink.
Anyway, with the shooting I have done, I was happy with how slowly the DAR's pressure gauge drops in .177. I would be happy being able to shoot on the reg between 3000 and 2000, or 1500 PSI. I think it is closer to the latter for the .177.
What I do while adjusting the hammer spring preload, is to keep the stock off; while I shoot over the chronograph. If you are fine tuning for accuracy, it would be better to have the stock attached. I have not gotten there yet...
Modifying the gun to have an easier hammer spring adjustment could be done. Rather than make a large hole in the back of the stock, I would thread in a short, much smaller capscrew - right into the cap, to lock them together. Then use the hex of the capscrew to make adjustments, via a small channel at the back of the stock - right at the rear of the receiver.
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I have noticed on my DAR .25 cal that a tool is not required to adjust the hammer spring. Just place your thumb on the adjuster screw and push in easily and turn, at least it works for me... (make sure the gun is not cocked)
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I have noticed on my DAR .25 cal that a tool is not required to adjust the hammer spring. Just place your thumb on the adjuster screw and push in easily and turn, at least it works for me... (make sure the gun is not cocked)
With the gun fully in the wood stock?
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No, sorry, you do have to take the action out of the stock.
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Thanks Steve,
Mine moves very easily, but I use this bicycle spanner tool, because it does not always move with just my fingers: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B6LNRQ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B6LNRQ)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71DD42ILDsL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
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I like that tool, looks simple and effective. I have a Harbor Freight version if I need it.
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Haven't posted due to my wife's cancer meds being ...problematic...but I've been watching all the fun!
After four times tearing this apart, I THINK I have the leaks solved.
Cheaping out, I only replaced the o rings believed to cause the leak one at a time....ONE lesson there is, replace them all if you have the parts available...it's not worth the time and PIA factor to keep taking things apart ::)
Second lesson is... CLEAN the &^^& and dust off the bench! any little piece of crud WILL find it's way to an o ring and buggar it up.
It all boiled down to the regulator, I believe.
I replaced every o ring I could find replacements for from my supply of 70 Durometer Buna stash....so we shall see if it holds overnight.
Quick snapshots here of the regulator and the two o rings that were likely the entire problem.
maybe NOW I can get to tweaking and tuning.
BY the by:
What tension are you all putting on the valve spring?
since the screw-in spring seat for the valve spring is wildly adjustable....
to find the 'weight' I put the valve on a scale, tare it out, and press the valve stem. Crude, but it gives me a rough idea what the spring is set to....a starting point, anyway.
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BY the by:
What tension are you all putting on the valve spring?
since the screw-in spring seat for the valve spring is wildly adjustable....
to find the 'weight' I put the valve on a scale, tare it out, and press the valve stem. Crude, but it gives me a rough idea what the spring is set to....a starting point, anyway.
In a regulated rifle, the valve spring tension isn't a critical parameter. However I suggest shading toward the "more is better" side of things because it helps the self-regulation characteristics to maintain a stable velocity despite minor variations in pressure and/or hammer strike. Self-regulation being the way in which an unregulated rifle produces a stable velocity over a wide pressure range...the same concept applies to a regulated rifle but generally gets ignored because regulators afford us the luxury of being lazy for the most part.
BTW, never apply so much preload that the valve spring is at risk of reaching coil bind when the valve is knocked open. If that happens, the hammer may drive the stem through the poppet and destroy it. Under normal circumstances, that's unlikely to happen because the amount of valve lift is quite small. It's more of a concern if you ever happen to fire it at very low pressure or no pressure.
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Has anyone shot slugs yet ? If so how did it perform.
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I have not set my DAR's valve spring, but did press the stock valve (.177, as it came from the factory) open with my finger tip . While that might actually be less significant than spending the night in a Holliday Inn Express, I was surprised by how much force was required. It was slightly uncomfortable; probably close to 10 lb. Yes, I used my trigger finger.
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From the factory, the disc was 5.5mm down in the housing on my .22 cal.
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In a regulated rifle, the valve spring tension isn't a critical parameter. However I suggest shading toward the "more is better" side of things because it helps the self-regulation characteristics to maintain a stable velocity despite minor variations in pressure and/or hammer strike. Self-regulation being the way in which an unregulated rifle produces a stable velocity over a wide pressure range...the same concept applies to a regulated rifle but generally gets ignored because regulators afford us the luxury of being lazy for the most part.
BTW, never apply so much preload that the valve spring is at risk of reaching coil bind when the valve is knocked open. If that happens, the hammer may drive the stem through the poppet and destroy it. Under normal circumstances, that's unlikely to happen because the amount of valve lift is quite small. It's more of a concern if you ever happen to fire it at very low pressure or no pressure.
First,
Thank you for the reply.
in addition, I appreciate the coil bind reminder, that's never a good thing... ( I got my coil in a bind once...wheew that hurt! but that's another story for another time) I went just 1/4 inch in with the spring seat. I figure it is just a touch further than the factory (mine measured just at .195 in before I started muddling about).
everything is back together, except for trigger work...which will wait until the first few hundred rounds before doing much with it.
We got hit with nearly 3 feet of snow last Wednesday and it was -2F yesterday morning so it might be a little bit before I do a ton of outside work ! but I will attempt to set up something in the next couple of weeks. but accuracy tests will commence as soon as I'm able.
Thanks again for all the feedback, everyone.
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We got hit with nearly 3 feet of snow last Wednesday and it was -2F yesterday morning so it might be a little bit before I do a ton of outside work ! but I will attempt to set up something in the next couple of weeks. but accuracy tests will commence as soon as I'm able.
Thanks again for all the feedback, everyone.
Will, thanks for your DAR II resealing posting as it will save me time when my turn comes. So far so good but it's inevitable that it will leak someday.
Right now I'm in North Conway, NH and we only got 6" of snow in the Valley.
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Has anyone shot slugs yet ? If so how did it perform.
I believe the DAR barrels are unchocked. That bodes well for slugs. I have seen questions around slug use, but have not found reports. There are people shooting their own cast pellets though.
One pertinent question is the maximum length of slug that will fit in the magazine. This might limit the .25, but probably not the .22 and .177. My .177 mag drum is .428" deep. There is clearance with the mag body, such that a projectile .444" long could be feasible. The longest projectile I would try to single load would be .545" (barrel breech face to rear of receiver mag slot - .005").
None of the above addresses the question of "chamber" shape or leade for slugs. That probably would need to be made deeper, or more shallow; as the abrupt throat that works for pellets would likely have the potential to distort slugs on loading. Nothing difficult about this. Explained by many knowledgeable people, in many prior threads. This is what I did to my .25 Marauder - step back to beginning of thread for "before" pictures: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=137096.msg1378450#msg1378450 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=137096.msg1378450#msg1378450)
This is not the best of pictures (it is grainy due to low light with the image gamma increased) of my DAR Gen2 .177 chamber:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179804.0;attach=339738;image)
DAR threads that mention potential slug use:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156041258#msg156041258 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156041258#msg156041258)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156041228#msg156041228 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156041228#msg156041228)
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Been shooting NSA 12.5 gr slugs out of my DAR factory settings, getting 860 fps. Finally a nice day and spare time, I will take it out to 50 yards and make sure my results are as good as I am seeing at closer ranges. Heavier slugs not so good but may be due to the lead needing opened up a little more.
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OK day stopped being nice by the time I got to my range >:(
It clouded over, and winds started gusting to 20 MPH range from right to left, so a good test for slugs IMO :D Higher holes were sighters, did a quick sight in at 30 yards then went to 50 dialed my POI in and let about 15 NSA 12.5 fly. Shot off a Trigger Stick Bipod BTW, I could of done better if I were hunting perhaps LOL
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7617)
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I'd say not bad for the wind.
20 MPH cross wind and probably gusting at times?
I'd be happy.
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Been shooting NSA 12.5 gr slugs out of my DAR factory settings, getting 860 fps.
Does this include the hammer spring tension being left stock? Increasing that is a piece of cake. Yes, it involves removing a single stock retention capscrew. Then you could wind in the hammer spring preload a turn or two and see what happens. The hammer spring cap can actually go in 3.75 turns from flush with the receiver.
I believe that you could easily get the velocity up to 950 FPS, and perhaps a little more with the 12.5 grain slugs, for 25 ft.lb. My guess is that less than two additional turns on the hammer spring will do it for you. Based on lots of slug shooting user data on this forum, slugs like to travel faster than pellets for best accuracy.
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Everything is as is right OTB, only thing done was clean the barrel, polish lightly, and paste wax shine in the bore. Yes next up will be adding some HS and re testing the 15 gr. nsa. I also have a Mrod shooting the 12.5s at 910 fps, but I am liking the better shot count of the DAR, and I have heard the lower FPS in the mid 8s can actually be of some benefit in the wind, and my ES is only like 3 for two and 1/2 mags or so. ???
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I have heard the lower FPS in the mid 8s can actually be of some benefit in the wind, and my ES is only like 3 for two and 1/2 mags or so. ???
Testing should get you where you want to be. Only you can decide where that is.
I think minimum wind drift at 850 FPS is for diabolo pellets. It is higher for slugs. The reason for their existence ...
Then there is the question of harmonics. Where do you get the smallest groups, apart from ES being a good indicator for vertical spread at longer ranges.
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That's an impressive extreme spread for a budget gun, hard to resist trying one of these again. Can anyone say stimulus check 2? Would want a 25 cal though.
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Whipped up a single shot tray. I do prefer to single load while plinking. Slows down my pellet usage as a bonus.
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Surely someone will start producing single shot trays for the DAR....?
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It would be easy for someone to 3D print them and sell for a few bucks.
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Sorry to ask but 25 page is too many to go thru. Where can I find a printable schematic for the Gen 2?
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Missed
Not available yet............. ;)
Per Ryan, when a available, it will be posted in the Tech section on the DAR Site.
Hth's
Don
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Does anyone know if Dar is going to sell replacement parts? That would be my biggest hang up with buying one.
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Missed
Not available yet............. ;)
Per Ryan, when a available, it will be posted in the Tech section on the DAR Site.
Hth's
Don
Thanks
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Does anyone know if Dar is going to sell replacement parts? That would be my biggest hang up with buying one.
Ditto for me!
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Surely someone will start producing single shot trays for the DAR....?
Did a few revisions and smoothed the print up. 22 cal The tray snaps into place and stays put nicely.
If anyone is interested shoot me a pm for details.
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I might be interested in a .25 version.
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Sonja is now buying into the whole "...we could use a .177 slug gun that is budget friendly..."
We'll see what happens over the next couple months :D
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(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7622)
;D
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I can not wait to get my hands on the 25 cal one that was offered to me. I already have a scope, rings and a MOA base. I need to order a couple more mags but holding off till the deal is complete.
What slugs do you guys recommend for squirrels?
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In for 2 single shot trays....PM sent .
Thanks
Rich
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I am going to add this to this thread so people hopefully don't blow the barrel o ring on the mag side out of the barrel .... = >:( :( ::) :P :-[ :-\ ;)
what ever you guys do make sure the cocking lever is shut to the magnet all the way closed , after cocking the gun .... if the gun fires off with the lever pulled back a bit after cocking it can blow the o ring that is in the barrel close to the mag side that seals the pellet probe off .... OH ask me how I know this .... ::) >:( cause playing around with the trigger adjustments today I did just that blew that o ring out of the barrel , stretched over the probe , :o ???
I put a new one back in after not getting the original o ring back in correctly and tearing it a bit .... so off came the barrel for the second attempt ,and I was successful , if you remove the barrel band put a little bit of silicone grease on the shroud and make sure you remove the end cap cause there is a micro size o ring in the barrel band shroud part .... if you dont lube it all up when taking off or putting it back on - the o ring will try to slide out from under the band as you are trying to position the barrel band .... ;)
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I am going to add this to this thread so people hopefully don't blow the barrel o ring on the mag side out of the barrel .... = >:( :( ::) :P :-[ :-\ ;)
Thanks Dan, good information.
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+1 above ^
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Hey Guys
Since several have found out about the barrel band/shroud "O" ring, anyone have a SWAG about the correct size?
As I posted on the 10th, (only 6 shots fired so far)......... ::)
When I pulled the shroud/bbl off, I broke that TINY/THIN "O" ring,
I didn't know it was there, so I put her back into her sleeping bag awaiting a new "O" rings.
The spare "O" ring packet that comes with the DAR'S, dose NOT have that "O" ring in it........... >:(
I have an order waiting for the "O" ring store, but can't find that size "O" ring........... :o
Any SWAG as to the correct size of that shroud "O" ring?
I would love to get her back working in OEM condition............ ;)
Tia,
Don
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Is it needed? I know the Mrod b/b was loose fitting.
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Hey Guys
Since several have found out about the barrel band/shroud "O" ring, anyone have a SWAG about the correct size?
As I posted on the 10th, (only 6 shots fired so far)......... ::)
When I pulled the shroud/bbl off, I broke that TINY/THIN "O" ring,
I didn't know it was there, so I put her back into her sleeping bag awaiting a new "O" rings.
The spare "O" ring packet that comes with the DAR'S, dose NOT have that "O" ring in it........... >:(
I have an order waiting for the "O" ring store, but can't find that size "O" ring........... :o
Any SWAG as to the correct size of that shroud "O" ring?
I would love to get her back working in OEM condition............ ;)
Tia,
Don
it's a 1mm x20mm ...WICKED thin..
I don't take mine off, I slip it off beyond the end of the reservoir and spin it 180 degrees up so it never leaves the shroud.
I learned the first time through to leave it on.
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Thanks guys,
Bill, I don't know, as there is some play between the bracket and shroud...........?
Will
Thanks for that info, I'll add to my "O" ring order.
You too?
I didn't know that little sucker was hiding under there, after I found it, it was TOO late,
RIP little "O" ring....LOL
Thanks,
Don
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I remember one time putting an o ring in the b/b on my SynRod... accuracy suffered... just sayin'
I'm happy with the accuracy of my DAR otherwise I might try removing it.
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Bill
FWIW, with some rough measurements,
the BB ends up in about in the middle the of the baffle stack, so I don't know, will have to test and see.
I normally turn a Delrin plug to a fairly tight fit inside the shroud/bbl band junction that fits around the bbl.
Tia,
Don
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As an interim fix until you get an o-ring, try a thin rubber band for a girl's ponytail.
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Get a Harbor freight oring kit. There's a large assortment of orings in the kit.
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The barrel band appears to be the same between the gen1 and gen2, and in my notes for the gen1 I measured it to be an M1x20.
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Jason
Thanks for the info, I'll add to my "O" ring order,
Thanks,
Don
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I can understand now why Ron did not like the barrel band so much , not that it's horrible , a better way would have been a simple pinch design with a relief cut between the 2 rings and a allen between the air tube pressure gauge fitting ,and shroud to pinch that area tight in between the 2 ... same way XP air guns does them very simple design that works perfect .... no screws digging into parts on the gun like the DAR has on the barrel band to air tube fitting ...
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Has anyone hand pumped the DAR Gen 2 ? Haw bad was it ?
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I hand pump mine. No different than hand pumping any other 3000psi rifle with a similar reservoir size.
I'm only 145lbs and don't find it to be a big deal. But if you go by how some people describe it, it's like moving mountains.
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{I have moved mountains} We used machines to do it ;) ;D
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{I have moved mountains} We used machines to do it ;) ;D
I like to use explosives and let someone else clean up the mess.
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Has anyone hand pumped the DAR Gen 2 ? Haw bad was it ?
I hand pump mine. It's a workout, but I feel the hand-pump will do just fine. It gets harder near the end, but if a partially dis-abled chap like me can do it ...
Advice: Just take your time. If you get tired or sore, just wait a while, or this is where your 21 yr. old son earns his space.
Once you are at the filled mark, enjoy and just try not to shoot it down the gauge too far. That makes it all the easier to fill (totally) again.
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When I started reading this thread, I figured it would help decide what to do.
Well after reading all 26 pages i am still in the same position, though there were some ups and downs.
You see the problem is I am going to buy a (.22 and .25) in either the DAR gen2 or the Avenger.
Even after reading all the pages here I still have questions, maybe you guys can help with.
The main concern I have with the DAR is barrel length (~17") which is not synonymous with long range accuracy or power (w/PB).
I have not seen anything about slugs in this short barrel. Do you think there is potential for more power out of this short barrel to get slugs to run well?
I do like the valve style that the Dar2 uses. I believe it has the better valve of the two (DAR2 VS. Avenger).
The main concern I have with the Avenger is the valve setup.
I do like the barrel length though over the DAR2. The length will surely help with slugs but I think the valve style is gonna bottle neck it even if I tweak the transfer ports.
And with no way to change the size of the plenum unlike on the DAR2.
I guess I could just get LW barrel blanks for the DAR2 and be done. What you guys think. Help me decide.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t you looking at a potential barrel swap in either case? The DAR because of the length or the Avenger because of the choke. Neither is optimal for shooting slugs. In which case that would mean you can narrow down the comparision to a smaller set of variables to make it an easier decision.
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I suppose you are correct. I guess I will be getting the DAR2 due to the valve and the better power potential of that valve set up.
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Jason,
My impression is that the DAR gen2 air rifles shoot at higher power than one would think for the caliber, with lower noise than the small primitives shroud guts should enable. Yes, people have found ways to make them more efficient, but they are not bad at all for such a short barrel.
As for long range potential; power is nothing without accuracy. It is here that the average DAR seems better than the average Avenger. A few people are shooting slugs through the unchoked DAR barrels. If you want 50, 75 and 100 FPE from a .177; .22 and .25 DAR, then you are going to need a longer barrel. If you are content with half that FPE, then the DAR is a good way to go.
There is a member here that achieved 30% more shots on the regulator with his DAR by making a very simple hammer de-bouncing device.
I bought mine because of the wood stock and low price, backed up by recent good user experiences. I have had mine apart and it is very easy to work on. My largest "problem" is the lack of a user manual with an exploded parts diagram. The fact that the regulator is not eternally adjustable seemed like a negative. However, mine seems to allow everything I want to do with my .177, just by varying the preload on the stock hammer spring. Changing out the hammer spring for experiments is equally easy.
I was hot for the Avenger, until the DAR gen2 came to my attention. My preference is for rifles no more than 41" long; and less than 7 lb in weight. My max before it annoys me is 43". That said, balance is more important than length or weight, because medium range offhand shooting is my thing. The Fortitude was on my list, but they seem to have too much trouble, without the out of the box goodness of the Marauder. Perhaps later, when they have been refined, a Fortitude will be a contender.
The fact that the DAR was cheap makes me less concerned with damaging it by modifying it. Not that it needs anything but to check for loose screws out of the box.
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Jason,
There is a member here that achieved 30% more shots on the regulator with his DAR by making a very simple hammer de-bouncing device.
Could you please point me in the direction for the de-bounce device?
I usually make a ssg for all my rifles, but would prefer a de-bounce on this one. Or is it the same thing?
I will be doing HS changes. I twist my own springs for that so I can make exactly what I need.
Thanks again for yall's responses.
One last question does these rifles need med or high ring mounts?
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Jason,
The de-bouncer is a SSG. Here is the thread: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182299.msg156076449#msg156076449 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182299.msg156076449#msg156076449)
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Mounts may vary with the size of the scope, 40 mm scope can use medium, 50mm scope will probably need high mounts.
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
They will call you, I ordered a mag 2 days ago and she called me yesterday but I was at work. I called her back today and paid for the mag and it has already shipped.
Their phone number is
909 923 6627 if you want to give them a call.
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
I would give aim sports a call just in case your order was misplaced like mine was LOL ! ! .... I would order .22 and .25 guns since our 2nd amendment will soon be taken away ,and then the air guns will be next .... I plan on ordering atleast 4 maybe 5 more guns very soon ...
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
I received a .22 that was missing parts and I called and talked to some one there but never got an email or call back on a resolution.
At this point I'm regretting purchasing the DAR and 2 Aim Sport scopes in the last 2 weeks. I'm probably going to have to call my bank in the next week if they do not respond.
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
I received a .22 that was missing parts and I called and talked to some one there but never got an email or call back on a resolution.
At this point I'm regretting purchasing the DAR and 2 Aim Sport scopes in the last 2 weeks. I'm probably going to have to call my bank in the next week if they do not respond.
I wonder, is this the same Aim Sports that imports firearms as well ?
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Well I guess I am gonna have the same problem Dan H had.
Well over 24hrs. and no call.
Alas this is typical for my luck.
I received a .22 that was missing parts and I called and talked to some one there but never got an email or call back on a resolution.
At this point I'm regretting purchasing the DAR and 2 Aim Sport scopes in the last 2 weeks. I'm probably going to have to call my bank in the next week if they do not respond.
I wonder, is this the same Aim Sports that imports firearms as well ?
I'm not sure but they do have firearms parts.
I did hear back from them this morning and I hope to have this worked out soon so I can begin to enjoy my new DAR. It is a very nice rifle. I got one shot off with it and nailed my 2" steel target at 50 yards without even sighting in my scope. Mine is just missing a little part that's keeping me from using it.
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I would order .22 and .25 guns since our 2nd amendment will soon be taken away ,and then the air guns will be next
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7648)
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I received a .22 that was missing parts
[/quote]
I did hear back from them this morning and I hope to have this worked out soon so I can begin to enjoy my new DAR. Mine is just missing a little part that's keeping me from using it.
[/quote]
What specific parts is yours missing ?
I MAY be able to help.
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I received a .22 that was missing parts
I did hear back from them this morning and I hope to have this worked out soon so I can begin to enjoy my new DAR. Mine is just missing a little part that's keeping me from using it.
What specific parts is yours missing ?
I MAY be able to help.
Thanks so much Ron.
It's the little detent ball that holds the magazine in place.
Mine has a set screw but not the ball that goes against the magazine.
I'm pretty sure there's a replacement coming from DAR.
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Finally I got a shipping number. Yeah !!!!
For the guys that has a .22 or .25 and done some shooting. What was the ammo you guys tested, and had good luck with?
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Finally I got a shipping number. Yeah !!!!
For the guys that has a .22 or .25 and done some shooting. What was the ammo you guys tested, and had good luck with?
16 and 18 jsb. Have been real good in mine. Make sure to clean the barrel really well.
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I received a .22 that was missing parts
I did hear back from them this morning and I hope to have this worked out soon so I can begin to enjoy my new DAR. Mine is just missing a little part that's keeping me from using it.
What specific parts is yours missing ?
I MAY be able to help.
Thanks so much Ron.
It's the little detent ball that holds the magazine in place.
Mine has a set screw but not the ball that goes against the magazine.
I'm pretty sure there's a replacement coming from DAR.
More than likely a spring in there also.
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Finally I got a shipping number. Yeah !!!!
For the guys that has a .22 or .25 and done some shooting. What was the ammo you guys tested, and had good luck with?
16 and 18 jsb. Have been real good in mine. Make sure to clean the barrel really well.
Thank you will try them first.
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Looks like I found a longer barrel for my .25 already.
My grandson ran over his bullboss with his truck yesterday, so he just gave me the bullboss ( looks like the barrel was not even touched, broke the receiver in half.)
I know it is a very accurate barrel. May have to do a little machining to get it installed, but that ain't a step for a stepper.
What you guys think?
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His misfortune becomes your opportunity. Looking forward to seeing your results!
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My grandson ran over his bullboss with his truck yesterday, broke the receiver in half.
I have had one that I WANTED to run over. I restrained myself.
Hunter
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I think it perturbed me off more than it did him.
I had just finished up tuning it (ssg, machined a new hammer, and turned my own springs).
I think he was eyeballing getting a Maverick, had to make it look feasible to the girl friend lol.
He could of just given it to me. I swear that boy never listens. I think it is in the water in Waco.
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Oh man, I hope it was accidental.
Hunter
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I got my DAR in .22 last night, checked the barrel (was fine) and put two cleaning wads down it to ensure it was clear and put two magazines of JSB Exact Jumbo 15.9 through it after mounting a 3x9 on top of it. Had to be up early so I put it away with 120 bar left on the gauge and went to bed.
I got home from work today and pumped it up to 200 bar, settled in and shot a sheet of competition bulls and decided to turn the hammer spring down a couple turns and oil the seer, felt a bit gritty. Set it up in the gunsmith vice in plastic jaws and turned the back cap out about 1-1/2 turns, dropped a drop of oil on the seer and went inside for dinner.
I came back and the gauge read zero!
A quick review here showed that many times screws etc. were loose upon arrival so I went through all the screws and immediately found the barrel band was loose and the probe would spin the reservoir freely. I got that all aligned and tightened back up but now the reservoir will not pump up at all. No indication of air leaking externally, some noise internally but after 100 pumps, I gave up.
I did test the pump, it works fine, pumps and holds 3000 psi with no drop off. Yes, the bleed screw is tight and no air seems to be coming from it.
Calling for a RMA tomorrow, this gun is worthless if I cannot count on it holding air or being pumped up from empty.
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Sorry to hear of your problem. Is it cocked while you are trying to fill it? If not, try cocking it and see if you can get it to hold some air. It's hard to find a leak if you can't get any air into it.
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Yes, both cocked and de-cocked. One last try pumping gave me a clue, there is air escaping through the barrel end.
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Yes, both cocked and de-cocked. One last try pumping gave me a clue, there is air escaping through the barrel end.
David, as most will agree this is a common problem on both new and well used AG's if a microscopic particle gets on the valve seat.
This does not mean that it is defective but only means that it will require a minor repair or slight burnishing of the valve seat.
It happened on my DAR 2 and was easily repaired. It's best to do it yourself so that you be familiar with the disassembly if it happens again.
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Yes, both cocked and de-cocked. One last try pumping gave me a clue, there is air escaping through the barrel end.
It sure sounds like it's leaking air through the valve. Bob is probably correct in his assessment. I had this happen with a Marauder. If you had an air tank or compressor to fill the gun, you could probably fill it faster than the air is escaping and get enough air in the cylinder to dry fire it several times and possible dislodge any debris that might be obstructing the valve. But hand pumping probably won't work for this purpose. If you aren't comfortable disassembling the rifle your self, it seems the only recourse is to return it and get another. This could be an isolated incident and the chances of the replacement having a similar issue if probably very slim. AIM Sports will stand behind their products, so no worries with getting great service!
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Nope, I just have a pump and have no access to a compressor while my buddy runs off on guard duty for his annual 2 weeks stint so I'm Sol.
We have a bunch of deer processing places, boat repair shops, sawmills, but the water gets a little hard up here in Minnesota for a lot of diving so no dive shops locally, LOL!
I want to keep my warranty on this gun so I will just send it back and wait for a new one to arrive. I am in no hurry to modify it, I just want some Trigger Time.
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Hmm we have "hard water fishing here, and dive teams to fish them out when they break through the "surface tension. Have you checked with any local volunteer fire/ rescue departments on where they get their air, and if a donation would get you some?
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Good point, I filled my 90ci tank at the local Fire Department before I got a compressor, but then you'd have to have a tank to fill! I'm waiting on a return from PA right now, it is frustrating when something new out of the box doesn't work as it should, and even more frustrating waiting on them to ship a replacement, so I understand where you're coming from. I wish you the best with the replacement and hopefully, they will ship it to you quickly!
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Correct, no tank and no desire to get one. I am a spry mid-century guy, I cut and split my own wood (100% heat and hot water come from our wood boiler) and I see pumping the reservoir as a challenge and not a chore.
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David, if you have a conventional shop air compressor you could disconnect your hose from your hand pump and use a rubber tipped blow gun connected to your compressor to blow air thru your pump hose into your air cylinder. Possibly that would dislodge the debris or get enough air in there to seal so that you could proceed with your hand pump to fill it further.
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Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom!!!
That did it! Got 150PSI in the tank and started the hand pump to add air, its still flowing from the barrel but slowing down a LOT!
Dry fired it twice and I cannot hear anything coming from the barrel. I think we may have it fixed gents!!
Not to be all gooshy but this is the first forum where the New Guy (me) has gotten good advice without any flame or "use the search bar" prattle and I greatly appreciate it! Shift work for the next several days so no time to shoot but Ill keep an eye on the gauge and see if it remains stable.
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Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom!!!
That did it! Got 150PSI in the tank and started the hand pump to add air, its still flowing from the barrel but slowing down a LOT!
Dry fired it twice and I cannot hear anything coming from the barrel. I think we may have it fixed gents!!
Not to be all gooshy but this is the first forum where the New Guy (me) has gotten good advice without any flame or "use the search bar" prattle and I greatly appreciate it! Shift work for the next several days so no time to shoot but Ill keep an eye on the gauge and see if it remains stable.
Congrats! Now fill it to around 2000 - 2500 psi, shoot it down to around 1000 psi and repeat. If there is any debris in the valve, that should clear it and will also help seat the valve poppet, which will help it seal. When you are through shooting it, top it off, make a note of the fill pressure on the gauge and let it sit overnight. If it's still at the same pressure (or close, since pressure will drop a little due to the air cooling in the cylinder) you should be good to go!
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Not to be all gooshy but this is the first forum where the New Guy (me) has gotten good advice without any flame or "use the search bar" prattle and I greatly appreciate it!
David, It is a great forum!
I wish that I could find forums on fishing and bicycling that have this family friendly discussions.
Hunter
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David, if you have a conventional shop air compressor you could disconnect your hose from your hand pump and use a rubber tipped blow gun connected to your compressor to blow air thru your pump hose into your air cylinder. Possibly that would dislodge the debris or get enough air in there to seal so that you could proceed with your hand pump to fill it further.
Brilliant !!!!! Tip of the year award.
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I agree, we all struggle with our airguns at some point in time, no one enjoys it when it happens, that's why we're so ready to jump in when one of our brothers is having trouble. Good group here.
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Thank you all!
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This is my first day off since my last post so I haven't looked that the DAR for close to a week now , the tube is empty, the air compressor trick didn't work this time so I am going to return this gun and get a replacement.
The Prowler is also still displaying clearly split groups after a re-crown, barrel polishing, Hammers scope, trigger work (#2 break) tight clusters of impact but 1-1/2" apart. Time to box it up and put it on eBay, the artillery hold is apparently too much for this old guy.
I am thinking about getting the Crosman Valiant in .22 with the wood stock for my cheapy pest control gun.
Win some loose some I guess....
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This is my first day off since my last post so I haven't looked that the DAR for close to a week now , the tube is empty, the air compressor trick didn't work this time so I am going to return this gun and get a replacement.
The Prowler is also still displaying clearly split groups after a re-crown, barrel polishing, Hammers scope, trigger work (#2 break) tight clusters of impact but 1-1/2" apart. Time to box it up and put it on eBay, the artillery hold is apparently too much for this old guy.
I am thinking about getting the Crosman Valiant in .22 with the wood stock for my cheapy pest control gun. Win some loose some I guess....
We are kind of in the same boat. Mr DAR Gen 2 leaks about 500 PSI in 24 hours. I sent an email to Dynamic early this morning. I have a great barrel,lovely stock and would prefer not to swap out the whole rifle. Asking them if I can send just the air tank assembly back for replacement or rework. I’m about sure the problem is in the regulator and know I can fix it(may need parts). Rather not void my warranty.
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[/quote]
We are kind of in the same boat. Mr DAR Gen 2 leaks about 500 PSI in 24 hours. I sent an email to Dynamic early this morning. I have a great barrel,lovely stock and would prefer not to swap out the whole rifle. Asking them if I can send just the air tank assembly back for replacement or rework. I’m about sure the problem is in the regulator and know I can fix it(may need parts). Rather not void my warranty.
[/quote]
Please post back how things go. I'm going to contact Dynamic this week....documenting my Gen 11 leaker...lost 725 psi in 4 hours.... leak slows and is erratic....
Rich
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Just got an email reply from Mike at Dynamic Air Rifles. I am sending back the air tube assembly for repair. Quick reply especially considering the time difference, they probably just got in to work. This bodes well.
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I spent Sunday afternoon shooting my DAR .25... I really enjoyed it. My face hurt Monday from grinning.... ;D
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I feel the same way. Like I won the lottery on the barrel and the stock. Something goofy in the regulator but DAR is going to make it right.
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Just got an email reply from Mike at Dynamic Air Rifles. I am sending back the air tube assembly for repair. Quick reply especially considering the time difference, they probably just got in to work. This bodes well.
Thanks for the info.
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Good deal. If they would get us a list of oring sizes it would probably save them a few returns.
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Mine has a slight leak also. It will drop around 20-30 bar over night from a full fill. I believe it is the regulator that is leaking. If I shoot until I'm off reg, which is around 110bar it doesn't leak any from that point. Do you guys think this is a good assumption on what is leaking?
Thanks,
Bryan
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For the leak to stop at 110 bar, it suggests there is a weak O-ring that is deforming and letting out little blips of air. Eventually the pressure falls enough that it can resist deforming enough to seal. It could be due to slight damage to the O-ring that occurred during installation or it could be an indication it would benefit from being a higher durometer (harder material to resist deforming).
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Thanks Jason!!
That gives me more to look at.
Luckily I have plenty of orings for this gun.
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No problem, good luck with it.
Note if the regulator is leaking at any of the 3 O-rings, air will escape the vent hole. You can simply apply a piece of clear tape over the hole and wait to see if it begins to lift.
A leak as fast as the one you described would cause it to lift within seconds.
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Thanks! I'll give that a try.
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Hmmmm....
I am not as lucky, I have to call them, never gotten an email back from DAR.
Just got an email reply from Mike at Dynamic Air Rifles. I am sending back the air tube assembly for repair. Quick reply especially considering the time difference, they probably just got in to work. This bodes well.
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I got a leaker! Less than 300 pellets down the barrel. Air coming out the regulator vent.
Does anyone know the sizes of the o rings in the reg ?
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Call them direct, Joe or Ryan will help.
My replacement comes today!
I got a leaker! Less than 300 pellets down the barrel. Air coming out the regulator vent.
Does anyone know the sizes of the o rings in the reg ?
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Replacement is here, 4Mpa... No return label in the box as promised and a call to DAR was answered but Ryan said they would call back in 10 minutes.... an hour ago.
I did pump it up, checked the barrel (clean) and sent a Crossman Premier down and it looked good so I sent 10 more down, they all sounded good too. One more mag, all sounded good, gauge reads 200Bar, pumped back up and I'll see if it holds or not. Mounted a Monstrum 3x9 AO scope on it, got it leveled, SWMBO is making Coq au vin for dinner so I'll sight it in after we eat.
I WANT to like them, I really do but I'm not sure they are ready for this. I want to have them send me a .25 and not refund me BUT I need to know that this is a solid gun first. ???
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UPDATE: I called back and Joe was very apologetic and apologized for not calling back, really manned up.
A couple things of note and of interest to you all; The air leaks are almost all coming from the regulator, the smallest of the o-rings. The guns were shipped at 20Mpa and from manufacturing to delivery, they remained unfired with full air for over a full year and the o-rings went flat.
Joe guesses that the temperature drop while shipping them to us caused the flat o-ring to leak.
They are working on re-ringing all of the guns and strongly thinking of sending off a new pressure tube assembly with new rings and shipping label to those that request one.
This will be warranty and authorized by them.
I will hang on for a bit and see if mine holds or if the pressure has dropped today, this is what they will do for me ASAP.
I am also reneging on my refund and have asked for a .25 which will be reringed and tested prior to shipping.
I am ASSURED that the return label will be in that box.
I hope this helps you all.
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UPDATE: I called back and Joe was very apologetic and apologized for not calling back, really manned up.
A couple things of note and of interest to you all; The air leaks are almost all coming from the regulator, the smallest of the o-rings. The guns were shipped at 20Mpa and from manufacturing to delivery, they remained unfired with full air for over a full year and the o-rings went flat.
Joe guesses that the temperature drop while shipping them to us caused the flat o-ring to leak.
They are working on re-ringing all of the guns and strongly thinking of sending off a new pressure tube assembly with new rings and shipping label to those that request one.
This will be warranty and authorized by them.
I will hang on for a bit and see if mine holds or if the pressure has dropped today, this is what they will do for me ASAP.
I am also reneging on my refund and have asked for a .25 which will be reringed and tested prior to shipping.
I am ASSURED that the return label will be in that box.
I hope this helps you all.
Glad you got yours straightened out.
I heard from Joe today about my leak and he said he would send me a whole new air tube. I thought that was awesome support.
Even with a little leak and a missing part I just couldn't be happier with my DAR. It is such a laser for me. It's so fun to shoot. At this point I'm set to buy another but I think I'll wait to see what the Gen 3 has to offer.
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I have wanted a .25 forever but the cost per pellet is way too much! I'll just swage my own and work up a good hollow point.
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Gosh when they send my air tube back maybe they send an extra ? 🤔
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Well... I did ask for an extra magazine to make up for the defects.
Gosh when they send my air tube back maybe they send an extra ? 🤔
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I hope you guys get a reply back, I sure haven't had any success from Ryan.
I have been asking for a diagram to get the correct size of good "O" rings and haven't heard back on that either.
I have the funds to buy a 22 & 25 cal, but I think I get another brand, Not very happy.......... :'(
I can't get my 17 cal Dar to stop leaking, had it since the 1st of Dec,
I thought I had it fixed but still leaks very slowly from somewhere etc.
I give up on it and stuffed it back in it's sleeping bag,
but I did get 6 shots before the leaking started........ :(
Don
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It saddens me to see people having the same issues with their Gen 2 guns that I had with my Gen 1 two years ago. After recalling all the rifles last time and all the tests and improvements, I was hopeful they had resolved all the problems but evidently not. I even considered giving one a try again but wanted to wait this time for others to wring them out. Sad too because I really like the weight and simple design, maybe they'll have better luck with the Gen 3. In any case, they are at least still standing behind their product, would hate to see the communications between Aim and their Chinese manufacturer though. :-\ >:(
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Tom
It wouldn't be so bad, if they (DAR) would just get the diagram out with the "O" rings sizes shown,
then you could at least get GOOD "O" rings and reseal everything up and have a better than 99% chance of it working right etc.
I have no problem doing the work, as then I can see the working of the air rifle etc,
as probably most of us modders are capable of working on them, as far as the warranty goes.
I can count on 1 hand the times I have had any good warranty backup on just about anything I have bought,
I prefer just doing it myself, then I KNOW it is done right etc.
Now if this ag were a $300,000 price model, I would be plum up set with the ongoing problem,
and demand a fix, but for the amount I paid, I don't expect too much.
Just need the parts diagram to fix the problems.
Tia,
Don
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I hope you guys get a reply back, I sure haven't had any success from Ryan.
I have been asking for a diagram to get the correct size of good "O" rings and haven't heard back on that either.
I have the funds to buy a 22 & 25 cal, but I think I get another brand, Not very happy.......... :'(
I can't get my 17 cal Dar to stop leaking, had it since the 1st of Dec,
I thought I had it fixed but still leaks very slowly from somewhere etc.
I give up on it and stuffed it back in it's sleeping bag,
but I did get 6 shots before the leaking started........ :(
Don
Don, if its leaking from the reg vent, and your not to frustrated at this point. Replace the small oring on the reg seat with a 006. Stopped the leaking on mine and hasn't leaked since.
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Thanks Rod
The first leak was 2 different spots in the fill valve, got those fixed, (I think),
then the gage sleeve was leaking >fixed?
Then it leaked from inside the gage face, replaced that and fixed > (I think),
then the reg vent was leaking silicone oil/air and I got mad and put it to sleep in it's sleeping bag............LOL.
And there she sets for the last month or so, with only 6 shots toal fired thru it,
I want to replace ALL the "O" rings, at one time, but I am not going to waste my time,
and replace every "O" ring in steps chasing leaks etc. ::)
Tia,
Don
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I am actually very exited about DAR, my replacement is now holding 20MPa just fine. ;D :D
I really dont see these problems as overwhelming or impossible to overcome and certainly not something that has not shown up on the big boys like Daystate or FX as I have read many, many threads about leaking o-rings on just about all PCP's including the new Avenger (my next purchase).
I have been very critical of DAR due to what Tracker1955 is calling (rightly so) "problems" with the first gen seemingly bleeding over to the second gen guns. But frankly, it is coming down to a single o-ring. I personally can live with that now that I understand the issue and considering that the issue is being addressed, going forward, the o-rings will be replaced before shipping, parts will be sent out and they now have an understanding of the fix.
For this reason, I have also bought a .25 from DAR and am exited to see if it is a "Laser" like the .22.
I'm gonna' shut up and get set up for 50 yards to get some lead on paper today and see what it likes the best.
It saddens me to see people having the same issues with their Gen 2 guns that I had with my Gen 1 two years ago. After recalling all the rifles last time and all the tests and improvements, I was hopeful they had resolved all the problems but evidently not. I even considered giving one a try again but wanted to wait this time for others to wring them out. Sad too because I really like the weight and simple design, maybe they'll have better luck with the Gen 3. In any case, they are at least still standing behind their product, would hate to see the communications between Aim and their Chinese manufacturer though. :-\ >:(
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I've never seen a Gun that didn't need modified from the manufacturer that meets our demands.
Most use the cheapest o-rings out there and we all know that!
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Sorry guys, wasn't trying to sour anyone on the DAR, I actually like the looks and feel of the rifle, and the improved magazine is definitely a plus, just hate seeing all the comments about problems between the two forums. O-rings wouldn't fix the problems on the Gen 1 rifles I had, spent $25 dollars on o-rings for that one for nothing, just bad machining. If the new ones are machined ok where o-rings fix the leaks then it's far less of a problem than before. I will say that if Aim knows the old o-rings are an issue they should be replacing them on every rifle before shipment.
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I'm e-mailing Monday about my two issues with my DAR .22. Just have to decide repair or refund. I really like the rifle and it reminds me of my Discovery .22 (which went 12 years without a leak).
My Marauder .25 is in it's 10th year no issues.
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Tom,
No need to apologize, I think everybody understands the frustration at not being able to shoot a gun that you want to try.
I was able to work on a window mount in my shop for a 50 yard target today. I am getting the final few adjustments done tonight but here is what I have so far.
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Can't see what's below the window, I assume it's a benchtop. I actually have a shooting bench at my family room window, it allows me 58 yards until it hits the woods to my rear. That wooded area is Core Of Engineers hunting grounds between me and J Percy Priest Lake near Nashville.
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Tom, There is actually nothing under that window, my work bench is just to the right of the window making this a perfect spot for shooting. I also stand to shoot as the window is 54" off the ground.
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The first time I toured the Battleship Alabama I knew sailors could not be much more than 5’6” 😉 the same day I went through the USS Drum WWII Diesel electric submarine, I’m 6’4” had a concussion before the day was over.
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I am just thrilled that the DAR's trigger is so easy to work on! Threw the receiver in the gunsmithing vice and tapped out all the pins, deburred everything (very little to do, nice and clean) and honed the sear on a DMT then polished it to a high gloss, dropped a pin ^#(*% of Moly on the surface and reinstalled everything. A very quick 10 minutes of work.
I then set the gas tube in the vice and got to work on the sear preload screw and turned it in until it fired the gun then backed it out 1 full turn. 33oz on average now, still a little stiff and some creep but a lighter spring may take care of some of that.
I may over extend the trigger spring a bit and see if that gives me the 1 pound trigger I am looking for.
I finished the window rest and held the reticle dead zero, got a magazine down range full of H&N Sport Field Target Trophy domes, 14.66gr. The bull is 4" so the group was about 2.5", not great so I will keep running through my pellets and see if I can find a shooter. BTW- the top two were with 22MPa and went high, once I fell to 20MPa, the group tightened up a lot.
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The first time I toured the Battleship Alabama I knew sailors could not be much more than 5’6” 😉 the same day I went through the USS Drum WWII Diesel electric submarine, I’m 6’4” had a concussion before the day was over.
I'm 5'8", I can run through door frames without ducking. Ships were made for a guy my size! :P :o
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Thanks for your service Sir, I am Glad we have brave men well under six foot to operate our flying and floating defensive tools.
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;D
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Love this gun! I bought an Avenger to do some pesting with and never even got a chance to do so. i had bought it from PA and they gave me a leaker the first try, then next one they sent was also a leaker so i was done with the avenger. i found this gun (DAR .22) and took the risk of buying it as it was still very new and there werent many reviews out yet. i havent looked back!!! this thing is so accurate even out to 76ish yards. thats about as far as i've shot it but hiting a starling at 76 yards over and over is pretty impressive from a 300$ dollar gun. the only thing i wish this had was a better shot count but 300$ can only buy so much. im getting about 35 good (in .22 cal) shots at about about 50 yards and then another 5 accurate to 25 yards. for my gun, it seems to love the 15 grain JSB hades out to those 75 yards and the 14.3G Crosman Hollow points under 30 yards (a bit of a cheaper option to shoot) and it DOES NOT LIKE slugs(I've tried the . I would say if youre on the fence about buying one of these, take the chance and buy one. it seems that very few people have issues with the gun and theres a good room for improvemnet from the guys at DAR but what they have so far in the gen 2 is great!
-Evan
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Evan,
Your results almost mimic mine, it just loves the JSB 15.89 domes and the CSHP close in but mine is working OK with slugs, not great but OK. Come join us on the informal 10m contest! https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183388.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183388.0)
Love this gun! I bought an Avenger to do some pesting with and never even got a chance to do so. i had bought it from PA and they gave me a leaker the first try, then next one they sent was also a leaker so i was done with the avenger. i found this gun (DAR .22) and took the risk of buying it as it was still very new and there werent many reviews out yet. i havent looked back!!! this thing is so accurate even out to 76ish yards. thats about as far as i've shot it but hiting a starling at 76 yards over and over is pretty impressive from a 300$ dollar gun. the only thing i wish this had was a better shot count but 300$ can only buy so much. im getting about 35 good (in .22 cal) shots at about about 50 yards and then another 5 accurate to 25 yards. for my gun, it seems to love the 15 grain JSB hades out to those 75 yards and the 14.3G Crosman Hollow points under 30 yards (a bit of a cheaper option to shoot) and it DOES NOT LIKE slugs(I've tried the . I would say if youre on the fence about buying one of these, take the chance and buy one. it seems that very few people have issues with the gun and theres a good room for improvemnet from the guys at DAR but what they have so far in the gen 2 is great!
-Evan
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DAR received my air tube assembly a week ago and still no word from them. Just sent an email .
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Yupper, I am getting a little :-X too.
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CJ, they're probably giving your replacement a thorough pressure test after fixing the leaky regulator o-rings, I know it's hard to be patient when you're dealing with a new rifle but my past experience with Aim Sports is that they want you happy. I went through this two years ago with three actions.
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Thanks Tom. Later I felt bad about that post. I know those guys are busy and doing the best they can.
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I think the frustration for me stems from lack of communication...
Thanks Tom. Later I felt bad about that post. I know those guys are busy and doing the best they can.
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I get that, but these guys have a lot more to tend to than just air rifles, comunication is probably not as high on their lists as getting other things done as well.
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Tom, Ryan is the DAR guy and Joe is customer support. I have heard of a Mike too but dont know what side of the building he is on.
There is separation between the two and Ryan is responsible for communicating to us. Strictly from a management position, you will lose customers to lack of communication 10:1 over defective products.
I'm in for the long haul, they have my money, I cant get out now. They have the leverage but I will go for another manufacture if they cant get their poop in a group ASAP.
I get that, but these guys have a lot more to tend to than just air rifles, comunication is probably not as high on their lists as getting other things done as well.
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Just got an email from Mike. They have my tube,should have parts for rebuild by midweek and will keep me posted.
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Atta-boy!
Just got an email from Mike. They have my tube,should have parts for rebuild by midweek and will keep me posted.
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Dang I would apply for A Job with DAR but the commute would be killer :-\
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Where are they located? I know it's somewhere in the inland empire.
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Where are they located? I know it's somewhere in the inland empire.
Ontario, California
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I fell off the reg at 9Mpa according the the built in gauge, I dont know how accurate it actually is.
Maybe I've just missed it, at what psi does it go off the reg?
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Love this gun! I bought an Avenger to do some pesting with and never even got a chance to do so. i had bought it from PA and they gave me a leaker the first try, then next one they sent was also a leaker so i was done with the avenger. i found this gun (DAR .22) and took the risk of buying it as it was still very new and there werent many reviews out yet. i havent looked back!!! this thing is so accurate even out to 76ish yards. thats about as far as i've shot it but hiting a starling at 76 yards over and over is pretty impressive from a 300$ dollar gun. the only thing i wish this had was a better shot count but 300$ can only buy so much. im getting about 35 good (in .22 cal) shots at about about 50 yards and then another 5 accurate to 25 yards. for my gun, it seems to love the 15 grain JSB hades out to those 75 yards and the 14.3G Crosman Hollow points under 30 yards (a bit of a cheaper option to shoot) and it DOES NOT LIKE slugs(I've tried the . I would say if youre on the fence about buying one of these, take the chance and buy one. it seems that very few people have issues with the gun and theres a good room for improvemnet from the guys at DAR but what they have so far in the gen 2 is great!
-Evan
My Avengers - 2 of them were also returned with problems , the design /quality of those is not very good compared to the DAR , ... The DAR guns .22 and .25 I have are holding air and operating correctly ,and very accurate once the barrel is cleaned , and seasoned ...
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You may have posted your routine but if it's no trouble,ccould you post it again please??
My Avengers - 2 of them were also returned with problems , the design /quality of those is not very good compared to the DAR , ... The DAR guns .22 and .25 I have are holding air and operating correctly ,and very accurate once the barrel is cleaned and seasoned. ...
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Yeah I feel very fortunate that the pre-production gen 2 I got for testing has yet to develop a leak. Meanwhile I also know this represents little more than postponing the inevitable. High pressure air is relentlessly motivated to find its way back to the atmosphere. Even while we sleep. 24/7/365.
Ordinarily there would be something that prompts me to crack it open even if it’s not leaking, the tinkerer that I am. But the regulator doesn’t creep, the poppet knocks open easily, and the setpoint and porting happened to be right where I like them for JSB 15.9gr and 18.1gr (~30fpe) so I’ll ride this out as long as I can. And because it is so remarkably accurate, when the day comes the air makes good its escape, a re-seal job will be quick to follow.
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You may have posted your routine but if it's no trouble,ccould you post it again please??
My Avengers - 2 of them were also returned with problems , the design /quality of those is not very good compared to the DAR , ... The DAR guns .22 and .25 I have are holding air and operating correctly ,and very accurate once the barrel is cleaned and seasoned. ...
Clean barrel with bore snake then put 200 shots threw it ,and you should be good to go ... the barrels have some junk in them from manufacturing that they don"t quite clean all the way out ...
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I have done that, I was hoping you had some "special sauce" that made this thing a laser. :D
You may have posted your routine but if it's no trouble,ccould you post it again please??
My Avengers - 2 of them were also returned with problems , the design /quality of those is not very good compared to the DAR , ... The DAR guns .22 and .25 I have are holding air and operating correctly ,and very accurate once the barrel is cleaned and seasoned. ...
Clean barrel with bore snake then put 200 shots threw it ,and you should be good to go ... the barrels have some junk in them from manufacturing that they don"t quite clean all the way out ...
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A bore brushing and polishing turned mine into a laser.
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Then that is what I will do, I just wish I could pull the barrel so I could get to the chamber and avoid the o-ring.
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Then that is what I will do, I just wish I could pull the barrel so I could get to the chamber and avoid the o-ring.
Just 2 allen set screws. Im not advocating being dishonest to the manufacturer. But there is simply nothing to screw up by doing so. Slides right out. You need to remove the breach oring do do any sort of good job at it.
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I see 4 grubs, not 2.
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2 barel band and 2 on the top of the breech and the barrel is out. Easy peasy.
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OK, Ill check.
2 barel band and 2 on the top of the breech and the barrel is out. Easy peasy.
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Yeah I feel very fortunate that the pre-production gen 2 I got for testing has yet to develop a leak. Meanwhile I also know this represents little more than postponing the inevitable. High pressure air is relentlessly motivated to find its way back to the atmosphere. Even while we sleep. 24/7/365.
Ordinarily there would be something that prompts me to crack it open even if it’s not leaking, the tinkerer that I am. But the regulator doesn’t creep, the poppet knocks open easily, and the setpoint and porting happened to be right where I like them for JSB 15.9gr and 18.1gr (~30fpe) so I’ll ride this out as long as I can. And because it is so remarkably accurate, when the day comes the air makes good its escape, a re-seal job will be quick to follow.
If I may add my consumer version .177 has been rock solid since day 1, only thing I did was a light bore polish, didn't need much and my turtle wax bore polish to make it shine. Doesn't creep or purge air even going through this Wisconsin winters extreem temp swings. Call me impressed !
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OK, Ill check. 2 barel band and 2 on the top of the breech and the barrel is out. Easy peasy.
Under the front scope mount.
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Thank you gents! I completely lost vision on the screws, I though the barrel and threaded retainer were 1 piece and that the 4 grubs held the barrel to the breech. The 2 screws on top seemed strange so I dismissed them. Yupper, EZPZ!
I also am thinking about getting a barrel blank now, tight twist for slugs. Mmmmmmmm, options!
Now, lets chuck it up and check runout.
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Welcome hope you get some good data.
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By the looks of it, it has a 1:18" twist, the rifling looks good, no noticeable defects. I may have to remount the barrel and do a double check but it looks like 0.0012" runout and a LOT of marks on the outside denoting where the barrel was bent to straighten it. The major deflection is till along that line in a spiral pattern.
I would love to have a container of liquid Nitrogen to dip this in to right now.
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Who can I send this to to have a new barrel made?
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Gave the barrel a good scrubbing and cleaned it out very well, held it up to blue sky and I think this may be the roughest barrel I have ever seen! Of course, this may be the case on all airguns, I surely dont know but none of my PB's have such rough bores and now I am no longer surprised that it takes so many pellets to foul the bore enough to create a good slip layer for the pellets to travel down equally.
Four grits of polishing compound did nothing to the bore, even flitz didn't brighten it up any but I went ahead and waxed it as well and will put pellets trough it tomorrow after reassembly.
I think I have at least taken down the burrs from cutting the rifling, the test will be in the groups.
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Sounds like AimSprts should send you another barrel. My air gun barrels a all shiny, sounds like you may have gotten a bad one.
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Um... they should but the warranty thing may preclude them from doing so. I'm heading into the shop to yank the first DAR's barrel and see what it looks like.
(From 35 years on smithing, using a blue sky gives you a completely different view of a bore, the shine is often missing and any defect can be easily seen.)
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Check your barrels, DAR owners! My rough barrel is actually pitting! There is also some pitting on the other one but not nearly as bad.
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Think I would fire lap it. Did a airgun barrel 7 years ago and worked out fine.. It appeared to have some pitting but barrel came out clean, shinny.
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Check your barrels, DAR owners! My rough barrel is actually pitting! There is also some pitting on the other one but not nearly as bad.
I kinda wondered. When i did my initial scrubbing with the bronze brush...I got a lot of brown out of the barrel. My liberty was the same way. But, when the wind is calm. I have no problem hitting a 1 1/4 metal t post at the fence line at 97 yards. Just have to see how she shoots. I do lube my pellets with silicone spray.
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I have it all back together, scope on and bore sighted, Ill put a few pellets downrange and see how she does.
Rich, I learned my lesson on an Enfield with fire lapping a pitted barrel, the lapping compound digs in on far side of the pits and elongates them. Ill just fire it as is and see how it goes.
Ron, me too. Lots of brown but I mistook it for cosmoline and without the bore scope, it looked like a rough broaching, up close, they are definitely pits.
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I used a product like this for fire lapping...just dip the pellet and shoot it numerous times.....then clean the barrel.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/PTW7652657 (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/PTW7652657)
One of the causes of pitting is improper cleaning...or riding in a shipboard container for 20-30 days at sea...lol.
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First shot was low and left, about 16 clicks off at 20m, got it on bull-x after 4 shots. Ran three mags of CPHP's through it to foul the barrel, pumped it back up, shot some bottles of ice 'cause I'm like that! 8)
I'm now on the 24 bull, 10m competition target. I'm going to see if its better than the old barrel for pure consistency. BRB! ;)
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I dug into the trigger of mine today. I polished all the contact surfaces and applied a little lube. Wow! What a difference it made! Much lighter and way smoother now!
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I suppose I need to do that.
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The trigger is supposed to be polished from the factory.
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I suppose I need to do that.
It was a cold blustery day here in North Florida, I had to do something, so I went at it with a vengeance! It was well worth the effort!
The trigger is supposed to be polished from the factory.
Yea, well it was far from being polished! I had to sand and file a bit to remove the burs and then hit it with the polishing bit and some metal polish. It's no longer got that gritty feel.
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Check yours, mine was still coated with the black paint on all surfaces. Took a little to remove the coating and get to metal. I'll take pix tonight after I finish documenting my pellet collection through this barrel as I just got my Loctite Moly Paste this week.
.The trigger is supposed to be polished from the factory.
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Mine is preproduction so not everything applys here.
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Mine was very gritty with several steps to pull through before the seer released.
Mine is preproduction so not everything applys here.
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The trigger itself is covered in black paint, I had to use a fine grade flat file to removed the paint and then buffed the surface till if was polished to a mirror finish. The sear wasn't painted, but it was a stamped part, so it had some burs that needed to be removed. After the burs were gone, I polished the contact surface where the trigger engages and also where it engages with the hammer. All told, they were small surfaces, but they made a world of difference.
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Did you stretch the trigger return spring? I may pull it a bit to drop the trigger pressure as well.
The trigger itself is covered in black paint, I had to use a fine grade flat file to removed the paint and then buffed the surface till if was polished to a mirror finish. The sear wasn't painted, but it was a stamped part, so it had some burs that needed to be removed. After the burs were gone, I polished the contact surface where the trigger engages and also where it engages with the hammer. All told, they were small surfaces, but they made a world of difference.
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Nope, didn't think of that. I may have to dive back in and give it a pull. Did you just do the spring on the trigger or both? I'm thinking only the trigger spring would need to be lightened. That should be possible by just pulling one pin and giving it a good pull!
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Yes, only the trigger return spring. Measure it before pulling and feel for the place it feels is a "good extension" then go just a few mm further and relax, measure. I am only looking for 2mm of extension. You will know if you pull too far... ;)
Nope, didn't think of that. I may have to dive back in and give it a pull. Did you just do the spring on the trigger or both? I'm thinking only the trigger spring would need to be lightened. That should be possible by just pulling one pin and giving it a good pull!
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I completed my "*scientific" examination of 24 different pellets in .22 cal that I shoved thru my DAR today for a total of 480 shots (PHEW!) to see what pellet (if any) rose to the top. I had several tins of Daisy, Ruger, United, Sears, G-Smith, Diana, Webley, Benjamin, Milbro and Eley that shot so poor in the DAR that I didn't score them due to not printing on the 10m informal target at 20m. For example: Daisy Precision MAX Pointed, 17g, only scored points on the adjacent targets and totaled "0" for a score with a single pellet missing the bull by a whole 80mm!
Daisy Max Speed, Eley and Ruger hit the 5 ring but were eliminated by the judges after showing so poorly.
7 contenders were chosen to be scored and the results are posted below.
Caveats and ya-butts: 20 shots of each pellet were made using a calibrated steady rest (cloth bags filled with non-scented kitty litter) and my patented long distance steady hold, with all shots pulled between breaths as reticle cross hairs were covering the 3mm bull. All shots were recorded on video, they were reviewed by the judges and declared valid. Your gun is different, it may shoot a rat poo in the 10 ring all day, no, I don't snuck at shooting and yes, I had my eyes open (SHEESH!).
Only 16 shots of each pellet were scored due to the phenomenon of the DAR not getting on the regulator until the 5th shot or about 2900 psi. The first 4 shots of each pellet rose 30mm across the board. Sorry, no chrony use inside due to LED lighting. The DAR was pumped up after each salvo of 20 pellets to 210 Bar or 3000psi.
The good stuff: 16 shots were scored using the 50 feet 4.5mm pellet MOA target provided in a link by Scott. Each shot was scored using a .22 caliber section of brass rod (when a judgement had to be made) to decide if the higher line or dot was hit by the pellet in question. Each of the pellets were scored on the highest point ring or dot. Bulls eyes were recorded as an X and must have obliterated the the center dot. Here are the scores:
130- Hatsan Vortex Strike Dome, 17.75g
135- H&N Field Target Trophy Sport, Dome, 14.6g
141- JSB Exact Jumbo, Dome, 13.43
144- Crosman Premier Dome, 14.3g
146- 1-X- Norma Golden Trophy, Dome, 15.9 (tie)
146- 1-X- Crosman Premier Hollow Point, 14.3g (tie)
149- 1-X- JSB Exact Jumbo, Dome 15.89g
(*scientific; meaning I did what I wanted to do and it may not be moral or legal in all states)
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What!!!!! No JSB 18.13's can't be a valid test without them.... ;D
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He should have been disqualified for shooting Norma. ;D
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I forgot Sears once marketed pellets. I knew the CPHP pellets would score high. I have yet to met a.22 pellet rifle that did not like them.
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I didn't shoot Norma, I shot the Sheriff! BTW- didn't know the deputy's name was Norma.
He should have been disqualified for shooting Norma. ;D
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Forgive me, I have not found any yet. :-\
What!!!!! No JSB 18.13's can't be a valid test without them.... ;D
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Once my dad found out I had a .22 pellet gun many years back, he picked up pellets for me at flea markets. More for the tins than anything else but all the tins are gone, there in a countertop at a gun store now.
The pellets are in an organizer now and the pellets are all carp but I had to try them out. There is so much oxidization on them that I'm sure air is getting by the skirts.
I forgot Sears once marketed pellets. I knew the CPHP pellets would score high. I have yet to met a.22 pellet rifle that did not like them.
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https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/CrosmanMKK11002.jpg
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I finally got a shipping label for the DAR, I sent it back, the new one is shooting OK but no laser. I'm expecting a DAR .25 in return but should I or should I go for the xcisco?
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Nothing back from DAR yet on this end. Don’t have time to fret over it for the tropics have frozen. Been living here near Galveston island for nineteen years and got use to the tropics. Now it’s weather in the teens and no power, no heat. Thank God for a roof ,walls
and Wall’s insulated coveralls .
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Got an RMA number via e-mail...shipping DAR tomorrow.
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Got an RMA number via e-mail...shipping DAR tomorrow.
Why she going back Rich?
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Got an RMA number via e-mail...shipping DAR tomorrow.
Why she going back Rich?
First it was clipping and I was thinking of fixing that but when the leak started I decided to go warranty route as new o rings were mentioned here.
Rich
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My .22 and .25 DAR guns are still working great dead accurate , both guns are capable of 1 hole 3 shot groups at 50 yards ....
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My .22 DAR is still working perfectly also, the trigger work made a huge improvement to it!
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My .25 is awesome. All I did was lower the reg setting and slightly back off the HS. I will most likely do some trigger work but I don't find it bad at all as it is.
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Maybe I got Gen 1 1/2 . lol
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Maybe I got Gen 1 1/2 . lol
Maybe they could fix it ,and sell it back to you as a refurb for half price .... making it a full gen 2 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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That's on my list right after lunch, I am still getting a little crunch right before letoff. The barrel/shroud swap has yielded sub-par results in the accuracy department for me so I will dump a tin of CPHP's through it to season it and see if it improves.
My .22 DAR is still working perfectly also, the trigger work made a huge improvement to it!
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I sure could use some instruction as to how one goes about changing the reg settings. I would like to 'turn it down' some for better accuracy.
Once the .25 comes in, I am going to hot-rod it for max hitting power (FPE) while still being as accurate as I can get it. That one will be the hunter while the .22 is going to punch paper and kill cans! ;D
My .25 is awesome. All I did was lower the reg setting and slightly back off the HS. I will most likely do some trigger work but I don't find it bad at all as it is.
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I sure could use some instruction as to how one goes about changing the reg settings. I would like to 'turn it down' some for better accuracy.
Once the .25 comes in, I am going to hot-rod it for max hitting power (FPE) while still being as accurate as I can get it. That one will be the hunter while the .22 is going to punch paper and kill cans! ;D
My .25 is awesome. All I did was lower the reg setting and slightly back off the HS. I will most likely do some trigger work but I don't find it bad at all as it is.
Well, after further review.... I lied. I have too many dang guns to remember what I did from one to the next.
The only thing I did to my DAR .25 was make some HS adjustments.
It was the Avenger that I adjusted the Reg on..... my bad.
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I sure could use some instruction as to how one goes about changing the reg settings. I would like to 'turn it down' some for better accuracy.
Once the .25 comes in, I am going to hot-rod it for max hitting power (FPE) while still being as accurate as I can get it. That one will be the hunter while the .22 is going to punch paper and kill cans! ;D
My .25 is awesome. All I did was lower the reg setting and slightly back off the HS. I will most likely do some trigger work but I don't find it bad at all as it is.
Degas the rifle. Unscrew the tube from the valve. Plenum spacer will fall right out. Unscrew the fill port assembly and use a dowl or cleaning rod to push the reg out. All should be only hand tight and easy to get apart.
With reg in hand, turn the adjustment screw in around 1/8th turn, or flush to the top. Should give you around 90-100 bar and keep 14 grain ammo at 900fps or below. You will probably have to trim a coil or two off the hammer spring as to not over drive it and waste air.
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SAWEET!! Thank you for the info. Any chance there are pictures? ::)
I sure could use some instruction as to how one goes about changing the reg settings. I would like to 'turn it down' some for better accuracy.
Once the .25 comes in, I am going to hot-rod it for max hitting power (FPE) while still being as accurate as I can get it. That one will be the hunter while the .22 is going to punch paper and kill cans! ;D
My .25 is awesome. All I did was lower the reg setting and slightly back off the HS. I will most likely do some trigger work but I don't find it bad at all as it is.
Degas the rifle. Unscrew the tube from the valve. Plenum spacer will fall right out. Unscrew the fill port assembly and use a dowl or cleaning rod to push the reg out. All should be only hand tight and easy to get apart.
With reg in hand, turn the adjustment screw in around 1/8th turn, or flush to the top. Should give you around 90-100 bar and keep 14 grain ammo at 900fps or below. You will probably have to trim a coil or two off the hammer spring as to not over drive it and waste air.
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Here's the reg. These two pieces will be assembled together. I just took them apart to tear it down.
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Mama's Bandit developed a leak and I got sent out to fix that first. I will have to dig into the reg, spring and trigger tomorrow on the DAR.
Thanks for the help!!!!!!
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Turns out the DAR is pretty darn easy to take apart and put back together. The reg was easy to remove and adjust and assembly was pretty fast as well. Just a few tiny issues became obvious as I finished assembly and tried to pump it back up. I did turn the reg screw in until it was flush with the regulator end face, it also has 12.7 written on it. Does anybody know what this signifies?
-As others have experienced, the bleed screw over the ball bearing has to be much tighter that you would think. I had to put just a little more torque on the screw than I wanted to to get the ball to seat all the way.
-Once you degas the tube, the poppet opens at about 150 psi (in my gun) so upon refilling the gun, I just hit it with my shop air compressor.... Nope, not this time! Instead, I took a small leather hammer and while pumping the tube up, I gave a small but sharp smack to the hammer spring back plate and that seated the poppet with just a few pounds in the reservoir.
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Just checked on it.... empty, sigh. Too tired tonight to leak-check it, I gonna bet money on the de-gassing screw though.
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The 12.7 is likely Megapascals.
In the U.S. we use PSI,
Europeans may use pascal( Pa), kilopascals (kPa) or Megapascal (MPa) or they may use Bar.
Bar is one unit of barometric pressure, 14.5 psi iirc.
1 megapascal =145.038 pounds per square inch
12.7 Megapascal = 1858 psi = 127 bar.
I don't know about your regulator, but my regulator you turn it counterclockwise to increase pressure.
Hunter
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Thanks for the information, 127 bar makes sense. I turned the screw clockwise to reduce the pressure so I could get more shots and hopefully get better accuracy. Around 100 bar would be perfect for me.
Now... to find that leak! :-\
The 12.7 is likely Megapascals.
In the U.S. we use PSI,
Europeans may use pascal( Pa), kilopascals (kPa) or Megapascal (MPa) or they may use Bar.
Bar is one unit of barometric pressure, 14.5 psi iirc.
1 megapascal =145.038 pounds per square inch
12.7 Megapascal = 1858 psi = 127 bar.
I don't know about your regulator, but my regulator you turn it counterclockwise to increase pressure.
Hunter
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This may be a bit off topic but I have a gen 1 DAR that I would love to have some machine a 26" barrel for it so I can put some serious zip on some .177 slugs!
Just have no idea who would or could do this for me and what kinda cost would be involved
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Or just pm me .. thanks
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Rhett,
Do you have a 26" .177 barrel? Finding one might be a little tricky. It seems Lothar Walther have some at 24"; so 26" should not be a stretch.
https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/74/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-12-mm-l-605-mm?c=273 (https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/74/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-12-mm-l-605-mm?c=273)
https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/77/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-16-mm-l-605-mm?c=273 (https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/77/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-16-mm-l-605-mm?c=273)
The next question would be; can you get a barrel with a fast enough twist for slugs?
You could contact LW USA and ask: https://www.lothar-walther.com/contact-form (https://www.lothar-walther.com/contact-form)
Else, someone is likely to pop up and tell you what they know from taking a similar journey. I think most small bore slug PCPs have been .172 caliber. So, centerfire barrel in that caliber can be had in faster twist rates, at 26".
I know that NSA are making slugs in .177, so someone is shooting them with something. I think that the stock DAR 17" .177 barrel is suitable for 30 FPE. Mine was shooting 25 FPE out of the box, with pellets.
Certainly, the 12.5 grain NSA slug should easily reach 950 FPS out of the stock DAR, with the hammer spring preload boosted a bit. If you need to "go to 11" with heavier slugs, you could also increase the reg pressure. The question is, is the stock barrel twist fast enough...
EDIT: http://alfa-precision.net/airgun (http://alfa-precision.net/airgun) have 1:14.57 twist in 25.6" length:
Barrel blank cal. .177 (4,5mm)
4.5/16/370/650
Cal. .177 (4,5mm) / OD 16mm / Twist 370mm / Length 650mm / F = 4.42 / Z = 4.59 / N = 12 / standard
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Forgive the dissimilar info, just throwing in my .02 on a .22, not .177.
From only the DAR ll perspective, the twist is 1:18 or so and my 40g slugs keyhole and at 50m, you can see them spiraling away.
According to Bergers calculator for twist, it will need a 1:15 twist at 900fps, BC .093, 30g to 40g to be stable.
I'm sure weights below that will be fine but have not checked them yet.
The DAR ll has a very simple barrel design and I see no reason why you couldn't use a .22 barrel if you could find a 1:14 twist. A small amount of turning and reaming, two dimples and you should be able to attach it.
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From only the DAR ll perspective, the twist is 1:18 or so and my 40g slugs keyhole and at 50m, you can see them spiraling away.
What caliber? Rhett is asking about a .177.
Twist is directly connected to caliber. So talk about twist must include caliber. Less pedantically, also projectile length, more than weight. Technically; shape and position of CG. And tail shape...
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Rhett,
Do you have a 26" .177 barrel? Finding one might be a little tricky. It seems Lothar Walther have some at 24"; so 26" should not be a stretch.
https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/74/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-12-mm-l-605-mm?c=273 (https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/74/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-12-mm-l-605-mm?c=273)
https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/77/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-16-mm-l-605-mm?c=273 (https://www.lothar-walther.de/barrel-blank/airgun/standard-profile/77/airgun-blank-4-5mm-air-od-16-mm-l-605-mm?c=273)
The next question would be; can you get a barrel with a fast enough twist for slugs?
You could contact LW USA and ask: https://www.lothar-walther.com/contact-form (https://www.lothar-walther.com/contact-form)
Else, someone is likely to pop up and tell you what they know from taking a similar journey. I think most small bore slug PCPs have been .172 caliber. So, centerfire barrel in that caliber can be had in faster twist rates, at 26".
I know that NSA are making slugs in .177, so someone is shooting them with something. I think that the stock DAR 17" .177 barrel is suitable for 30 FPE. Mine was shooting 25 FPE out of the box, with pellets.
Certainly, the 12.5 grain NSA slug should easily reach 950 FPS out of the stock DAR, with the hammer spring preload boosted a bit. If you need to "go to 11" with heavier slugs, you could also increase the reg pressure. The question is, is the stock barrel twist fast enough...
EDIT: http://alfa-precision.net/airgun (http://alfa-precision.net/airgun) have 1:14.57 twist in 25.6" length:
Barrel blank cal. .177 (4,5mm)
4.5/16/370/650
Cal. .177 (4,5mm) / OD 16mm / Twist 370mm / Length 650mm / F = 4.42 / Z = 4.59 / N = 12 / standard
I dont currently have any particular barrel in mind.
I was thinking about the possibility of a lothar walther blank as I have seen others have good results with these in the past..
24" would surely offer some benefits in efficiency and increased ability in the power department vs the stock 17"
I would prefer 26" just to get the max length while still keeping the aol within reasonable measures.
From my measurements with a 26" unshrouded barrel
Oal should be around 42" or similar to an mrod.
As far as twist rates go I have no knowledge to speak of on the subject and was just gonna see what recommendations I could get from the more knowledgeable members here like yourself.
I have seen a couple others talk about the alfa precision barrels you shared a link to and they do seem to be a viable option I just wonder if anybody has dealt with them before and how their results and experience ordering/ shipping was.
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My thoughts were to use commercially available slugs such as NSA around 15 grains and push them 950-1050fps range..
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Clarified above.
From only the DAR ll perspective, the twist is 1:18 or so and my 40g slugs keyhole and at 50m, you can see them spiraling away.
What caliber? Rhett is asking about a .177.
Twist is directly connected to caliber. So talk about twist must include caliber. Less pedantically, also projectile length, more than weight. Technically; shape and position of CG. And tail shape...
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For kicks and giggles, here is the napkin math for a barrel cal of .177.
Using the data provided by NSA, 12.5g, .178" dia, .234" long, BC .070 and by Berger's calculator, shot at 900fps, the minimum twist for ".177" is 1:16.
Stability factor is estimated at 1.52 where 1.50 is the minimum factor for stable flight with this data. Using a tighter twist, such as a 1:14 twist gives a fully stable rating of 1.98.
Bergers online tool can be used for any projectile as long as you have the data above like NSA provides. Just punch in the data and hit calculate.
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OK, back on track. The DAR has been FULLY disassembled, the reg was adjusted clockwise to set the screw flush with the end of the reg body, I set the preload on the poppet (the four hole cap) by turning it in 1 extra rotation to seat it deeper and give a lighter opening (if this is bad, please let me know so I can turn it back out). The hammer strikes the poppet stem, opening the gas passage.
The poppet stem was completely dry! It had some surface rust and some brass staining from rubbing the brass poppet seat guide without lubrication, lubed and re-assembled.
I was able to pump it up with the hand pump from zero psi, it seems to be holding at 21MPa.
I was also able to shoot 30 pellets with a total drop of only 300 psi. I am going to guess I have lowered the speed significantly but should have no issues with shooting 100 pellets per fill before it falls off the reg.
Feedback? Questions? Criticism?
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By turning it in you've made the valve spring stiffer. The only thing I would double check is that you are not putting the valve spring into coil bind. Mine was set pretty close to that from the factory. 5 or 5.5 mm deep if i recall. Just something to be aware of.
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By turning it in you've made the valve spring stiffer. The only thing I would double check is that you are not putting the valve spring into coil bind. Mine was set pretty close to that from the factory. 5 or 5.5 mm deep if i recall. Just something to be aware of.
Roger that! By 'lighter' I mean, less time opened-less air. I did that to counter the hammer spring needing to be cut.... maybe this will work? I did check the bind before turning it in more but with the cone shape, it didn't seem to be an issue.
Dunno but its worth a try? Seems to be giving me some good results so far. I'll know more tomorrow as I send a string of pellets down range tomorrow, 100 should take me down to 2000 psi?
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A healthy amount of valve spring tension does help mitigate excessive dwell, and does so without much change in the amount of hammer strike necessary to knock it open. It also improves the valve's self-regulation characteristics, meaning the velocity is less sensitive to slight pressure variations...which is useful because no regulator is perfect.
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A healthy amount of valve spring tension does help mitigate excessive dwell, and does so without much change in the amount of hammer strike necessary to knock it open. It also improves the valve's self-regulation characteristics, meaning the velocity is less sensitive to slight pressure variations...which is useful because no regulator is perfect.
Thanks for putting the words in place, still 'new' to PCP's so still on the curve. I was having a hard time with cutting a spring and thought, "Well, why not just counter the strike?" Good to know I didn't just bugger up my DAR!!
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For kicks and giggles, here is the napkin math for a barrel cal of .177.
Thanks for your effort, Sir. 1:14 rings a bell.
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When are they going to be available? Mike
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Rhett,
I am sure that a 24" or longer barrel would make it easier to reach high FPE than the stock 17" long barrel. That said, FPE gains are not linear. If you doubled the barrel length, you are likely to be disappointed - except about how quiet is. Eventually, the high pressure air in the barrel behind the projectile weighs more than the projectile; and then efficiency suffers... Bob Sterne has posted about the optimal barrel length for PCPs. They are expressed as so many calibers: 150 caliber length in .177 would be 26.55" long, for example.
Also, unless you increase the barrel diameter, the increased flexibility of a longer barrel may make it harder to shoot small groups, and more tune or projectile fussy. That said, the DAR barrels are nice and stiff, and could probably be longer at the stock diameter. If you plan to use a shroud-less barrel and don't mind the weight, LW also make 16 mm diameter airgun barrels (as do Alpha precision).
I found a bunch of posts about .177 slug barrels, with twist as a topic of conversation - see google links below.
You might start with this post about a powerhouse .177 slug air rifle:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145128.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145128.0)
Alpha Precision barrel: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183408.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183408.0)
Slugs from a Marauder: www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148177.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148177.0)
Slugs from pellet barrels: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148279.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148279.0)
Slug barrel. Has poly VS regular rifling discussion deeper in:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155749.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155749.0)
Here is a twist calculator often used on GTA:
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm (http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm)
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel+twist&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=CmwwYPSGJ8uz5gK5wrUo&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj0s9XkrffuAhXLmVkKHTlhDQUQ8tMDegQIBBA1&biw=1117&bih=533 (https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel+twist&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=CmwwYPSGJ8uz5gK5wrUo&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj0s9XkrffuAhXLmVkKHTlhDQUQ8tMDegQIBBA1&biw=1117&bih=533)
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=lWkwYL7YD5DG5gLQ45igDg&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj-9sa4q_fuAhUQo1kKHdAxBuQ4FBDy0wN6BAgEEDk&biw=1117&bih=533 (https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=lWkwYL7YD5DG5gLQ45igDg&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj-9sa4q_fuAhUQo1kKHdAxBuQ4FBDy0wN6BAgEEDk&biw=1117&bih=533)
I dont currently have any particular barrel in mind.
I was thinking about the possibility of a lothar walther blank as I have seen others have good results with these in the past..
24" would surely offer some benefits in efficiency and increased ability in the power department vs the stock 17"
I would prefer 26" just to get the max length while still keeping the aol within reasonable measures.
From my measurements with a 26" unshrouded barrel
Oal should be around 42" or similar to an mrod.
As far as twist rates go I have no knowledge to speak of on the subject and was just gonna see what recommendations I could get from the more knowledgeable members here like yourself.
I have seen a couple others talk about the alfa precision barrels you shared a link to and they do seem to be a viable option I just wonder if anybody has dealt with them before and how their results and experience ordering/ shipping was.
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For kicks and giggles, here is the napkin math for a barrel cal of .177.
Using the data provided by NSA, 12.5g, .178" dia, .234" long, BC .070 and by Berger's calculator, shot at 900fps, the minimum twist for ".177" is 1:16.
Stability factor is estimated at 1.52 where 1.50 is the minimum factor for stable flight with this data. Using a tighter twist, such as a 1:14 twist gives a fully stable rating of 1.98.
Bergers online tool can be used for any projectile as long as you have the data above like NSA provides. Just punch in the data and hit calculate.
Fire walker,
I do very much appreciate the calculations..
Looks like a 1:14 twist or maybe a bit faster will be what im after..
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Rhett,
I am sure that a 24" or longer barrel would make it easier to reach high FPE than the stock 17" long barrel. That said, FPE gains are not linear. If you doubled the barrel length, you are likely to be disappointed - except about how quiet is. Eventually, the high pressure air in the barrel behind the projectile weighs more than the projectile; and then efficiency suffers... Bob Sterne has posted about the optimal barrel length for PCPs. They are expressed as so many calibers: 150 caliber length in .177 would be 26.55" long, for example.
Also, unless you increase the barrel diameter, the increased flexibility of a longer barrel may make it harder to shoot small groups, and more tune or projectile fussy. That said, the DAR barrels are nice and stiff, and could probably be longer at the stock diameter. If you plan to use a shroud-less barrel and don't mind the weight, LW also make 16 mm diameter airgun barrels (as do Alpha precision).
I found a bunch of posts about .177 slug barrels, with twist as a topic of conversation - see google links below.
You might start with this post about a powerhouse .177 slug air rifle:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145128.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145128.0)
Alpha Precision barrel: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183408.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183408.0)
Slugs from a Marauder: www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148177.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148177.0)
Slugs from pellet barrels: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148279.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148279.0)
Slug barrel. Has poly VS regular rifling discussion deeper in:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155749.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155749.0)
Here is a twist calculator often used on GTA:
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm (http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm)
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel+twist&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=CmwwYPSGJ8uz5gK5wrUo&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj0s9XkrffuAhXLmVkKHTlhDQUQ8tMDegQIBBA1&biw=1117&bih=533 (https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel+twist&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=CmwwYPSGJ8uz5gK5wrUo&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj0s9XkrffuAhXLmVkKHTlhDQUQ8tMDegQIBBA1&biw=1117&bih=533)
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=lWkwYL7YD5DG5gLQ45igDg&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj-9sa4q_fuAhUQo1kKHdAxBuQ4FBDy0wN6BAgEEDk&biw=1117&bih=533 (https://www.google.com/search?q=site:gatewaytoairguns.org+.177+slug+barrel&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS793US793&ei=lWkwYL7YD5DG5gLQ45igDg&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj-9sa4q_fuAhUQo1kKHdAxBuQ4FBDy0wN6BAgEEDk&biw=1117&bih=533)
I dont currently have any particular barrel in mind.
I was thinking about the possibility of a lothar walther blank as I have seen others have good results with these in the past..
24" would surely offer some benefits in efficiency and increased ability in the power department vs the stock 17"
I would prefer 26" just to get the max length while still keeping the aol within reasonable measures.
From my measurements with a 26" unshrouded barrel
Oal should be around 42" or similar to an mrod.
As far as twist rates go I have no knowledge to speak of on the subject and was just gonna see what recommendations I could get from the more knowledgeable members here like yourself.
I have seen a couple others talk about the alfa precision barrels you shared a link to and they do seem to be a viable option I just wonder if anybody has dealt with them before and how their results and experience ordering/ shipping was.
Thanks for all the information and links you have provided for me sir!
You, firewalker and others like yall are what makes GTA so great!
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Rhett, Subscriber sure gave you a bunch of terrific links to read, including a calculator that has its roots back in the days of DOS operating systems and has been used for bullet/ pellet design for decades. This is the same program behind Berger's calculator, albeit with less bells and whistles but gives you a straight up answer to your input for stability.
For that reason, please allow me to include a link to an article from hard air (it may have already been posted, I dont remember). I suggest you read it first to get an understanding of the concepts of stability and over stabilization.
https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/pellet-twist-rate-and-stability/
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Just got an email from Mike. They have my tube,should have parts for rebuild by midweek and will keep me posted.
Well, it's been well over one month now since they received it and nothing yet, no promised update either. Sent an email yesterday, I figure waiting one month to email them is more than fair. About ready to send the rest of the gun back and ask for a full refund if something positive does not happen soon. If I could have gotten the right o-rings for the reg I would have fixed it myself,nothing to do now but wait. My patience gets less as my fatigue grows . I am working 12 hour days(which means leaving the house at 0500 and returning at 1930) 13 days on then one day off for the foreseeable future, our refineries where not built for the kind of Winter storm we just got so we are covered up with lots of work and not just in the plant I work in , all the plants on the Texas gulf coast. I am getting too old for this "stuff" ;)
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Just got an email from Mike. They have my tube,should have parts for rebuild by midweek and will keep me posted.
Well, it's been well over one month now since they received it and nothing yet, no promised update either. Sent an email yesterday, I figure waiting one month to email them is more than fair. About ready to send the rest of the gun back and ask for a full refund if something positive does not happen soon. If I could have gotten the right o-rings for the reg I would have fixed it myself,nothing to do now but wait. My patience gets less as my fatigue grows . I am working 12 hour days(which means leaving the house at 0500 and returning at 1930) 13 days on then one day off for the foreseeable future, our refineries where not built for the kind of Winter storm we just got so we are covered up with lots of work and not just in the plant I work in , all the plants on the Texas gulf coast. I am getting too old for this "stuff" ;)
CJ, call Joe. I got the tracking from AIM SPORT INC on Wednesday after calling Joe in customer service again last week. That way you can talk about the issues and solutions for you and your DAR as well.
Good luck, man. I hope you do well.
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This may have been asked already but when will there be more rifles in stock? Their website has shown out of stock for a while now.
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This may have been asked already but when will there be more rifles in stock? Their website has shown out of stock for a while now.
Charlie, when I talked to Joe last week, he said he had all the parts in stock and they were working through rebuilding the valve O-rings which seemed to be the problem in 85% of the guns. You may want to call him, just use the number on the website and ask for Joe when you get the receptionist. He is very kind, if you go to voicemail just call back in an hour or two.
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I'm waiting them out...I have other guns to shoot like my Avenger .22 etc...plus I'll be be getting another rifle soon...They received my DAR Feb 18. (10 working days).
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I know I am appreciating my Umarex Origin. On this crazy shift I'm working I get home around eight and shoot about a dozen shots offhand in my garage every night before going inside the house. Working my springers back in to the rotation as well.
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Thanks David. I just got an email from Joe . My tube is now holding air and I have a tracking number.
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Thanks David. I just got an email from Joe . My tube is now holding air and I have a tracking number.
Outstanding! Good luck and post some targets please!😁
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I know I am appreciating my Umarex Origin. On this crazy shift I'm working I get home around eight and shoot about a dozen shots offhand in my garage every night before going inside the house. Working my springers back in to the rotation as well.
Glad to here your DAR tube is on the way...I've been busy rotating (shooting) all my air guns plus nailing some squirrels behind my home...I retired from shipbuilding in 2002 and can appreciate the hours you are working. I had to travel...and was in Galveston, Jacksonville and Tampa plus Port Author....not to mention ST Croix, Puerto Rico. Panama etc.
Rich
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My DAR .22 decided it no longer wants to hold air ! FUN ! .... NOT ! this will be the last made in China guns that I will buy , I have noticed a lot of people on here with the new DAR guns are having problems with them leaking , it makes me wonder are they using junk o rings ? or is it bad assembly ... or both ...
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My DAR .22 decided it no longer wants to hold air ! FUN ! .... NOT ! this will be the last made in China guns that I will buy , I have noticed a lot of people on here with the new DAR guns are having problems with them leaking , it makes me wonder are they using junk o rings ? or is it bad assembly ... or both ...
Mine started to leak out over night just a couple of days ago. I'm going to try calling them today.
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Just not the best o rings i believe. Put a piece of scotch tape over the reg vent hole anb see if thats where its leaking from.
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Poppet seat and orings. Hopefully my .25 arrives today.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
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OK I think I have it fixed quick tear down with air tube off showed small leak coming from port hole in the valve , that meant the poppet was leaking to me , so I took the poppet out inspected it ,and it looked good , then I inspected the valve seat {brass looking} noticed some very faint marks at sealing point ... so I polished it with 2000 grit paper , and tested it in a glass of water ... :-[.... NO LEAKS ! YES ! .... at least for now it appears to be holding air ... crosss the fingers ! .... :D..... i hope i think i just got out of that one quickly ... ::)... ;)
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Obviously the quality is just not there in the materials...o-rings , poppet etc..I have two rifles that were custom tuned in 2010 that are regulated and still going strong...have not lost any power ...both I have used extensively in FT, Bench rest and hunting... regs are both set at 1900 psi and rifles both take 3000 psi fills.
I know I'm probably overdue for re-sealing but it will not be a big deal.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
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OK I think I have it fixed quick tear down with air tube off showed small leak coming from port hole in the valve , that meant the poppet was leaking to me , so I took the poppet out inspected it ,and it looked good , then I inspected the valve seat {brass looking} noticed some very faint marks at sealing point ... so I polished it with 2000 grit paper , and tested it in a glass of water ... :-[.... NO LEAKS ! YES ! .... at least for now it appears to be holding air ... crosss the fingers ! .... :D..... i hope i think i just got out of that one quickly ... ::)... ;)
The seat came out easily for you? What is your opinion of the poppet materials? Is that aluminum or Ti? Nylon or Delrin?
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Obviously the quality is just not there in the materials...o-rings , poppet etc..I have two rifles that were custom tuned in 2010 that are regulated and still going strong...have not lost any power ...both I have used extensively in FT, Bench rest and hunting... regs are both set at 1900 psi and rifles both take 3000 psi fills.
I know I'm probably overdue for re-sealing but it will not be a big deal.
$300 for this gun. What did your custom guns cost? The compressor cost a hundo more than the gun! ;D
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
I replaced everything I could may be the one on the jet I dont think I could find that one local. I would greatly appreciate it if you did that.
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For the all of a sudden poppet leaks after its been holding air fine....pay special attention to the brass insert in the valve. The one the poppet stem rides in.
Polish the ID and take all the sharp edges off where the screw driver slot is. Then slightly chamfer where the poppet stem enters the insert.
I did as soon as i received my rifle upon inspection, because it had sharp edges and was rough if i applied any side pressure to the stem.
I have a feeling some are getting brass shavings from this on the sealing surface causing the problems.
I went through mine after receiving it, replaced a few orings that worked and had on hand and the above. Its been running like a watch for over 2500 pellets now.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
I replaced everything I could may be the one on the jet I dont think I could find that one local. I would greatly appreciate it if you did that.
Is that the teeny-tiny oring?
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I've actually had a few very good days with the DAR in a row and they continued today. The poppet is holding 3000 psi just fine with no loss. I am also have good luck with accuracy too, at 50 yards, I hit 5 shots on steel right on top of each other, I did not measure the group but it cant be larger than 3/8"!
I also did very well at 100 yards with a breeze from the right. I am just shooting CPHP because they are cheap but am also delighted to find that the DAR really likes them and although the JSB's do stack a little better, they do not perform x3 times better which is what they cost.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
I replaced everything I could may be the one on the jet I dont think I could find that one local. I would greatly appreciate it if you did that.
Is that the teeny-tiny oring?
I Don't know what that one was for?
But.... it works like a charm under the ball bearing under the degas screw. Keeps you from having to gorilla tighten the screw.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
I replaced everything I could may be the one on the jet I dont think I could find that one local. I would greatly appreciate it if you did that.
Is that the teeny-tiny oring?
I Don't know what that one was for?
But.... it works like a charm under the ball bearing under the degas screw. Keeps you from having to gorilla tighten the screw.
The factory overtightened mine so much that the poppet seat is no longer removeable!
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I didn't think it was? Figured it was a press fit.
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I didn't think it was? Figured it was a press fit.
I doubt it, it has to seal somehow.
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Any word on actual oring size for the reg? I replaced them with what I could sorce them locally still leaks out of the hole in the air tube.
I can measure my replacement set to get the sizes. It may be the internal rings that are bad, did you replace both sets?
I replaced everything I could may be the one on the jet I dont think I could find that one local. I would greatly appreciate it if you did that.
Is that the teeny-tiny oring?
Yes the one on the brass adjustor on the reg.
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I didn't think it was? Figured it was a press fit.
I know that is what I was thinking looking at the valve seat today , light polish with 2000 grit paper sealed up to the poppet ,and I thought at first no more leaks then after a few hours pressure gauge went down , so now I have figured out the fill valve has a very slow leak coming out of the fill hole , so tomorrow I will mess with it and see if I can get it to seal up .. ::) I hope it acts like my DAR .25 soon ... sealed, and shooting perfect ... ;D DAR-nit .. :P
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I didn't think it was? Figured it was a press fit.
I know that is what I was thinking looking at the valve seat today , light polish with 2000 grit paper sealed up to the poppet ,and I thought at first no more leaks then after a few hours pressure gauge went down , so now I have figured out the fill valve has a very slow leak coming out of the fill hole , so tomorrow I will mess with it and see if I can get it to seal up .. ::) I hope it acts like my DAR .25 soon ... sealed, and shooting perfect ... ;D DAR-nit .. :P
Dan, do you have a pic of the seat out of the gun? I have an issue I would like to address but if it is a press-fit, I'm gonna let it ride!!
Also, what grain pellet does your .25 like?
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I didn't think it was? Figured it was a press fit.
I know that is what I was thinking looking at the valve seat today , light polish with 2000 grit paper sealed up to the poppet ,and I thought at first no more leaks then after a few hours pressure gauge went down , so now I have figured out the fill valve has a very slow leak coming out of the fill hole , so tomorrow I will mess with it and see if I can get it to seal up .. ::) I hope it acts like my DAR .25 soon ... sealed, and shooting perfect ... ;D DAR-nit .. :P
Dan, do you have a pic of the seat out of the gun? I have an issue I would like to address but if it is a press-fit, I'm gonna let it ride!!
Also, what grain pellet does your .25 like?
Man I can not keep this gun from leaking ! now it is leaking out of the micro size hole in the air tube just up about 4 inches from where the valve screws in maybe that little hole is for the reg ? does any one no which o ring to replace that involves this small pin hole leaking ?
one thing I do not like at all is the valve design , and poppet sealing flat on the valve seat instead of having it with a slight wedge shape to seal with more contact area , I think I might just return this DAR .22 , and sell my .25 DAR that is working OK I am really not liking the design on areas of this gun .... and the air bleeder screw is also very hard to get to the seal the air off ..... so in 24 hours or so the valve poppet to seat has leaked... the air intake has leaked ,and now the pin hole is leaking where i guess the reg sits .....
never had this many leak problems on any gun I have owned in 20 years of shooting PCP's ... ::) ::) ::) I think it may be time to send the problem back to sender of such problems ::)...
pellet wise JSB 25.39 shoot very well out of the .25 .... my NOE mold .25 pellets shoot really good also ...
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Dan, yes, you have those o rings in your bag. They are the outside o rings on the reg, air is passing by one.
The reg is super easy to remove, just degas and remove the barrel and air tube, unscrew both caps and use a wooden dowel to push the reg out the poppet side.
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When I had a slow leak from the vent on my Gen 1, it was the internal O-ring on the regulator piston.
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When I had a slow leak from the vent on my Gen 1, it was the internal O-ring on the regulator piston.
I just got off the phone with joe I think it was at aim sports / DAR .. I have to send them the air tube back for the .22 unfortunately they won't return the gun for refund , but they will send me a repaired air tube .... so oooo I will wait till I get the new air tube then sell it after I test it , I also have a bunch of .22 crosman hollow point 14.3 g that it shoots really good in this gun that can go with the gun if you like ,if you are interested ...
My .25 DAR is now up for sale pm me if you want it , it holds air perfect , and works perfect , and very accurate ....
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Sorry to hear that, Dan. :-\
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Do any of you guys have a thread gauge?
I would like to know what the thread size is of the HS adjustment slug (cap or whatever you want to call it).
To make a better SSG with longer springs.
Thanks for any and all help.
Also have any of you measure the barrel port? I measured mine and it is already .171. Would you guys go any larger? I want a little more umph to get the Baracudas (21.14) to the 910fps range, currently the best is 868fps. I have already played with the springs, the reg is at 145bar. I have even wound me a .051 spring. I even used the spring out of the .25 DAR (.057). Any suggestions would be great.
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Do any of you guys have a thread gauge?
I would like to know what the thread size is of the HS adjustment slug (cap or whatever you want to call it).
To make a better SSG with longer springs.
Thanks for any and all help.
Also have any of you measure the barrel port? I measured mine and it is already .171. Would you guys go any larger? I want a little more umph to get the Baracudas (21.14) to the 910fps range, currently the best is 868fps. I have already played with the springs, the reg is at 145bar. I have even wound me a .051 spring. I even used the spring out of the .25 DAR (.057). Any suggestions would be great.
I wonder if the poppet will allow enough air for you? You will also have to tap the hole you drill through if you enlarge the TP. I don't know it it will limit you if you open the barrel port.
I will measure the thread this weekend as I have some plans for the .22 version. Think Armalite furniture. 😁😉
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port wise you want to go 75 to 80 percent of caliber bore size is the general rule to keep air velocity up ....
Well I did 2 more attempts at getting this reg to seal replaced all o rings ,and to no avail the darn thing is still leaking , maybe yank the reg out and jb weld that micro hole up and run the gun with out the stupid leaking reg that the right o rings I guess are not available ?
I used the extra ones the gun came with , it didn't work then I tried a larger small o ring and it didn't work I think it may have got damaged a bit but it did slow the leak down I think ..... that micro reg hole just wants to keep on leaking ... ::)
I am getting to the point I want to take a sledge hammer to this leaker ,and put it out of it's misery ! ... ;D ;D { it really deserves it at this point ::) ;D} no the air tube will be sent back to Aim Sports so maybe they can correct their mistakes , who knows ....
have any of you guys tried to run this gun with out the reg ? ....
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port wise you want to go 75 to 80 percent of caliber bore size is the general rule to keep air velocity up ....
Well I did 2 more attempts at getting this reg to seal replaced all o rings ,and to no avail the darn thing is still leaking , maybe yank the reg out and jb weld that micro hole up and run the gun with out the stupid leaking reg that the right o rings I guess are not available ?
I used the extra ones the gun came with , it didn't work then I tried a larger small o ring and it didn't work I think it may have got damaged a bit but it did slow the leak down I think ..... that micro reg hole just wants to keep on leaking ... ::)
I am getting to the point I want to take a sledge hammer to this leaker ,and put it out of it's misery ! ... ;D ;D { it really deserves it at this point ::) ;D} no the air tube will be sent back to Aim Sports so maybe they can correct their mistakes , who knows ....
have any of you guys tried to run this gun with out the reg ? ....
Dan, that's really interesting since the regs outer body on mine was a solid tube, no holes at all for air to pass through so I have to wonder if the air chamber walls are scratched? What did you use to push the reg out?
If you want to go without the reg, just pull the inner piece out of the reg, the black outer portion should seal the weep hole.
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Air tube came in yesterday. Tube had 1800 PSI in it. These days I have about two hours from when I get home to eat shower, shave and go to bed. Could not stand it had to the install the air tube. One shot and leaking out the barrel slowly, another it got slower, one more and all the air in the tube leaked out. Yep Poppet valve seal . I'll be off Sunday after working thirteen twelve hour days then back to another thirteen twelves on Monday. I will fiddle with it a bit on Sunday but right now I am pretty disgusted with it.
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If we are going to be stuck fixing these things ourselves the very least AIM can do is to put a schematic and O-ring chart on their website. I have had real good luck using Fluorocarbon (green) O-rings, the kind that is used in HVAC systems these days . Even though I am a Machinist I hate measuring tiny O-rings . Mine may need another poppet valve, I'll know later when I have time to tear mine down or get another tube from AIM. Since they won't refund I guess some have good ones and some are stuck with leakers. After a repair first rattle out of the box you have a leak it may be more than O-rings.
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Air tube came in yesterday. Tube had 1800 PSI in it. These days I have about two hours from when I get home to eat shower, shave and go to bed. Could not stand it had to the install the air tube. One shot and leaking out the barrel slowly, another it got slower, one more and all the air in the tube leaked out. Yep Poppet valve seal . I'll be off Sunday after working thirteen twelve hour days then back to another thirteen twelves on Monday. I will fiddle with it a bit on Sunday but right now I am pretty disgusted with it.
That is not good news.. very sorry to hear that . Makes me wonder what is happening at DAR.....I have not heard a peep about my "leaker/clipping" rifle...think it may be time for an email. It will be a month March 18.
Rich
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Rich, they had my tube seven weeks.
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Sorry to hear your new tube is leaking.
I heard from Joe yesterday and he is going to send me a new tube for mine.
I really hope it solves my leak. I agree they should post a diagram and o ring sizes so we can order better o rings if or when we need them.
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When mine leaked from the reg vent. It was the small oring on the end of the reg adjustment screw. I replaced it with a 006 oring and hasn't leaked since.
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May I remind everyone that Joe has the full time job of customer service for AIM and the DAR thing fell in his lap with no help.
Joe told me that they are working on the drawings and o ring chart as well and he has been extremely generous as well as patient with the demands upon him from both sides.
Yes, the poppets are an issue. Yes the o rings are an issue but they are most certainly not garbage. I will spend some time tonight cataloging the o rings in the box and see if I can get good sizing for you all.
I would normally use a "ring sizer" from a jewler, a neat trick for this kind of thing.
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I figured it must be a load on Joe from prior posts...David you just shed more light on that so things are more clear now...I can drive there in 2 1/2 hours but I don't like LA. A friend has an air gun shop nearby there....MAC !.
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I really wish I had not bought these cheap china made DAR guns... they delivered us guns that leaked ! with bad o rings ,and with NO o ring kits for replacement for sale ...
Joe told me the guns sat in a warehouse for a year before they were sold , so they wore out the o rings he said ended their life expectancy -he said .... NOW does this sound like someone that has even a clue as to what he is talking about .... NO ! ....
This company is the absolute worst I have delt with in over 20 years of shooting PCP'S
they DAR lost my order on my guns for 2 weeks when i purchased my 2 guns new , they should of never got into the air gun bizz they are not responsible enough to run a company like this ... and now we are paying the price ...
I did get my gun to seal up last night but now the reg does not work correctly , I used a o ring in it on the shaft that holds the washers that little one , I used one a bit larger that we use on the shoe box compressor and it was pretty tight to get in almost didn't make it but now the gun shoots like its not regulated ,
so i guess I have to tear down this china made disaster again , take another shot at it ,and or just ship the air tube ,and guts back to AIM /DAR , and cross my finger beyond hope that these people send me some thing back to get this gun working correctly so I can sell it off ! so I don't have to deal with this mistake anymore ... ::) ::)
NO MORE CHEAP CHINA GUNS FOR ME ! .... I learned my lesson Avenger was the first , DAR was the second , and I will not go for 3rd's .... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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When mine leaked from the reg vent. It was the small oring on the end of the reg adjustment screw. I replaced it with a 006 oring and hasn't leaked since.
Thanks for the info Rod. Your input is appreciated. I've saving your tips in notes....
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.....NO MORE CHEAP CHINA GUNS FOR ME ! .... I learned my lesson Avenger was the first , DAR was the second , and I will not go for 3rd's .... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Meh.... I knew that this was a risk due to the recalled 1st Gen. No surprises for me. Frustration? Plenty.
2 guns, 6 hundo. I'm good to go.
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I really wish I had not bought these cheap china made DAR guns... they delivered us guns that leaked ! with bad o rings ,and with NO o ring kits for replacement for sale ...
Joe told me the guns sat in a warehouse for a year before they were sold , so they wore out the o rings he said ended their life expectancy -he said .... NOW does this sound like someone that has even a clue as to what he is talking about .... NO ! ....
This company is the absolute worst I have delt with in over 20 years of shooting PCP'S
they DAR lost my order on my guns for 2 weeks when i purchased my 2 guns new , they should of never got into the air gun bizz they are not responsible enough to run a company like this ... and now we are paying the price ...
I did get my gun to seal up last night but now the reg does not work correctly , I used a o ring in it on the shaft that holds the washers that little one , I used one a bit larger that we use on the shoe box compressor and it was pretty tight to get in almost didn't make it but now the gun shoots like its not regulated ,
so i guess I have to tear down this china made disaster again , take another shot at it ,and or just ship the air tube ,and guts back to AIM /DAR , and cross my finger beyond hope that these people send me some thing back to get this gun working correctly so I can sell it off ! so I don't have to deal with this mistake anymore ... ::) ::)
NO MORE CHEAP CHINA GUNS FOR ME ! .... I learned my lesson Avenger was the first , DAR was the second , and I will not go for 3rd's .... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Dan I think with quality 0-rings and mod to reg this rifle can turn out to be a good shooter....I bought a DAR thinking it was built by SPA but I guessed wrong it appears.
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I really wish I had not bought these cheap china made DAR guns... they delivered us guns that leaked ! with bad o rings ,and with NO o ring kits for replacement for sale ...
Joe told me the guns sat in a warehouse for a year before they were sold , so they wore out the o rings he said ended their life expectancy -he said .... NOW does this sound like someone that has even a clue as to what he is talking about .... NO ! ....
This company is the absolute worst I have delt with in over 20 years of shooting PCP'S
they DAR lost my order on my guns for 2 weeks when i purchased my 2 guns new , they should of never got into the air gun bizz they are not responsible enough to run a company like this ... and now we are paying the price ...
I did get my gun to seal up last night but now the reg does not work correctly , I used a o ring in it on the shaft that holds the washers that little one , I used one a bit larger that we use on the shoe box compressor and it was pretty tight to get in almost didn't make it but now the gun shoots like its not regulated ,
so i guess I have to tear down this china made disaster again , take another shot at it ,and or just ship the air tube ,and guts back to AIM /DAR , and cross my finger beyond hope that these people send me some thing back to get this gun working correctly so I can sell it off ! so I don't have to deal with this mistake anymore ... ::) ::)
NO MORE CHEAP CHINA GUNS FOR ME ! .... I learned my lesson Avenger was the first , DAR was the second , and I will not go for 3rd's .... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Dan I think with quality 0-rings and mod to reg this rifle can turn out to be a good shooter....I bought a DAR thinking it was built by SPA but I guessed wrong it appears.
Rich I have tried to stay away from reged guns ... they always seem to be a real pain in the end ... sure they work good for a while , but in the end especially with these cheap china guns there is always problems ... both Avenger guns I had are a prime example of this with reg kreep like crazy ! they worked good at first then both took a dump ! ::)
lucky I got my money back on those at least Air Venturi stood behind there warranty , and product unlike AIM /DAR junk ! I thought they had a 1 year return policy ... NO ! ... 30 days ! .... Hatsan I think is 90 days on refurbs ! or maybe 30 ...
that is another reason why I am ditching these 2 DAR guns , and if I do the history , and math on my none reg guns they shoot lights out with very few problems like my small block chevy in my 76 datsun 280z they just work good ! ... ;D ;D ;D
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[/quote]Rich I have tried to stay away from reged guns ... they always seem to be a real pain in the end ... sure they work good for a while , but in the end especially with these cheap china guns there is always problems ... both Avenger guns I had are a prime example of this with reg kreep like crazy ! they worked good at first then both took a dump ! ::)
lucky I got my money back on those at least Air Venturi stood behind there warranty , and product unlike AIM /DAR junk ! I thought they had a 1 year return policy ... NO ! ... 30 days ! .... Hatsan I think is 90 days on refurbs ! or maybe 30 ...
that is another reason why I am ditching these 2 DAR guns , and if I do the history , and math on my none reg guns they shoot lights out with very few problems like my small block chevy in my 76 datsun 280z they just work good ! ... ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]
Good point re China parts...I have two regged rifles built by a friend in Texas...still going strong after 10-12 years,,,parts/o-rings from the USA...do you autocross ? I did for 7 years...
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Rich .... I don't autocross but I do hit the Drag strip at PIR Portland International Raceway at times and we have the largest weekly car show in the USA there that last for 4 months JUNE -SEPTEMBER .. our record for 1 event was 2300 hot rod cars ,Drag racing is going on at the same time as the car show plus live band playing every week .. lots of fun for sure... ;D... I have 3 cars I use for this 280 z/ Z28 convertible / Z51 corvette ....
I just shipped off my .22 DAR to AIM/DAR.. I left out the stock so it would be cheaper to ship since these guys plus they can test shoot it this way instead of just sending the air tube section of the gun , plus DAR does not send you a shipping label to cover warranty shipping like the good company's do ... ::) ... now lets see how long it takes for them to hopefully get it correct ,and correct the mistakes that were made if that's even possible ... not holding my breath at all with these guys ...
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Rich .... I don't autocross but I do hit the Drag strip at PIR Portland International Raceway at times and we have the largest weekly car show in the USA there that last for 4 months JUNE -SEPTEMBER .. our record for 1 event was 2300 hot rod cars ,Drag racing is going on at the same time as the car show plus live band playing every week .. lots of fun for sure... ;D... I have 3 cars I use for this 280 z/ Z28 convertible / Z51 corvette ....
I just shipped off my .22 DAR to AIM/DAR.. I left out the stock so it would be cheaper to ship since these guys plus they can test shoot it this way instead of just sending the air tube section of the gun , plus DAR does not send you a shipping label to cover warranty shipping like the good company's do ... ::) ... now lets see how long it takes for them to hopefully get it correct ,and correct the mistakes that were made if that's even possible ... not holding my breath at all with these guys ...
I'll watch for your posts re DAR...
Yeah I have two Corvettes...a stick shift (Borg Warner Super T-10) 78 L82 and a 1969 stick shift (Muncie) with a ZZ 502 crate motor...i ran the 78 in autocross and and just tooled around in the 69...wife caught me buying brand new Goodyear Eagle GT's and having them shaved for autocross so had to give that up..quit in 1987...still have both vettes.
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Rich .... I don't autocross but I do hit the Drag strip at PIR Portland International Raceway at times and we have the largest weekly car show in the USA there that last for 4 months JUNE -SEPTEMBER .. our record for 1 event was 2300 hot rod cars ,Drag racing is going on at the same time as the car show plus live band playing every week .. lots of fun for sure... ;D... I have 3 cars I use for this 280 z/ Z28 convertible / Z51 corvette ....
I just shipped off my .22 DAR to AIM/DAR.. I left out the stock so it would be cheaper to ship since these guys plus they can test shoot it this way instead of just sending the air tube section of the gun , plus DAR does not send you a shipping label to cover warranty shipping like the good company's do ... ::) ... now lets see how long it takes for them to hopefully get it correct ,and correct the mistakes that were made if that's even possible ... not holding my breath at all with these guys ...
I'll watch for your posts re DAR...
Yeah I have two Corvettes...a stick shift (Borg Warner Super T-10) 78 L82 and a 1969 stick shift (Muncie) with a ZZ 502 crate motor...i ran the 78 in autocross and and just tooled around in the 69...wife caught me buying brand new Goodyear Eagle GT's and having them shaved for autocross so had to give that up..quit in 1987...still have both vettes.
69 vette with 502 has got to be a torque monster ... ;D
Next I have a Hatsan carnivore .357 to tune , they are way under power stock ....porting plus valve mods should get me around 900 fps with 81 g pellet , the .30 carnivore I have is set at 900fps shooting 46 g NOE mold pellet ... The DAR leak adventure took me off that .357 project , oh well now I know what the DAR looks like inside ::) not that I wanted to this early ...
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Contacted Joe, He said he would send me a good tube and a return label for my old tube. Well when I got home last night I figured since it has already degassed itself let's unscrew the poppet valve and clean it. Got it out, found the spring retaining nut recessed .200", (kind of weak at that setting) and unscrewed it. not much "microtrash" on the poppet, cleaned it and reassembled. Went in further with the retaining nut to .300" recess. It took air :) went outside and shot five pellets into Texas. 19 MPA at 2100 , checked at 0400 still 19 MPA. Sent an email this AM to hold off for now. Told Joe I would like to get a spare poppet valve and some good O-rings at some point as I do not trust the spares that came with the gun. Happier but not holding my breath. By the way, that poppet is kind of dinky and the sealing surface is mighty small.
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I burnished mine up slightly while on the seat and that sealed it up well. Very small passage for air though.
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FWIW, a small sealing surface is actually less likely to leak. It’s preferable so long as it isn’t so small that the poppet material begins to extrude.
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FWIW, a small sealing surface is actually less likely to leak. It’s preferable so long as it isn’t so small that the poppet material begins to extrude.
[/quote
Agreed
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I just sent another email to DAR, I have sent several with NO reply's back period,
so I'll see what happens for the last time.
Why is it so hard to put up a diagram with the "O" ring sizes, ............... >:(
just about every other decent manufacture has them for their air guns,
then if we want to dismiss the warranty (which doesn't appear to apply anyhow),
we could at least get some use out of them.
I have fired a total of 6 shots due to the leaking from numerous spots, fix that and another starts,
all due to BAD "O" rings, since Dec 2020.
I just don't trust AIM/DAR after the number of emails sent any more,
I have the funds to get a full set 22 and 25 cal's,
but will get the Sentry/Gauntlet in stead of the DAR now.
Tia,
Don
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I just sent another email to DAR, I have sent several with NO reply's back period,
so I'll see what happens for the last time.
Why is it so hard to put up a diagram with the "O" ring sizes, ............... >:(
just about every other decent manufacture has them for their air guns,
then if we want to dismiss the warranty (which doesn't appear to apply anyhow),
we could at least get some use out of them.
I have fired a total of 6 shots due to the leaking from numerous spots, fix that and another starts,
all due to BAD "O" rings, since Dec 2020.
I just don't trust AIM/DAR after the number of emails sent any more,
I have the funds to get a full set 22 and 25 cal's,
but will get the Sentry/Gauntlet in stead of the DAR now.
Tia,
Don
Don, CALL JOE!
Dont email, just pick up the phone and all him.
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Contacted Joe, He said he would send me a good tube and a return label for my old tube. Well when I got home last night I figured since it has already degassed itself let's unscrew the poppet valve and clean it. Got it out, found the spring retaining nut recessed .200", (kind of weak at that setting) and unscrewed it. not much "microtrash" on the poppet, cleaned it and reassembled. Went in further with the retaining nut to .300" recess. It took air :) went outside and shot five pellets into Texas. 19 MPA at 2100 , checked at 0400 still 19 MPA. Sent an email this AM to hold off for now. Told Joe I would like to get a spare poppet valve and some good O-rings at some point as I do not trust the spares that came with the gun. Happier but not holding my breath. By the way, that poppet is kind of dinky and the sealing surface is mighty small.
That's interesting .300 recess ... I was having a bit of a problem getting the poppet to seal at the .200 ... and it would be interesting to see how .300 would effect speed , i guess you could counter it with more hammer spring to gain FPS ...
I think the poppet needed a bit more sealing surface for my liking .
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That's interesting .300 recess ... I was having a bit of a problem getting the poppet to seal at the .200 ... and it would be interesting to see how .300 would effect speed , i guess you could counter it with more hammer spring to gain FPS ...
I think the poppet needed a bit more sealing surface for my liking .
[/quote]
I turned my poppet to enlarge the surface, then burnished it for a perfect fit.
What is this "recess" you are talking about?
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What is this "recess" you are talking about?
I understood it to mean the amount of valve spring preload against the poppet.
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What is this "recess" you are talking about?
I understood it to mean the amount of valve spring preload against the poppet.
Hammer spring?[/size]
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Not the hammer spring. All the following appears to be dealing with the valve and poppet and getting it to hold air:
let's unscrew the poppet valve and clean it. Got it out, found the spring retaining nut recessed .200", (kind of weak at that setting) and unscrewed it. not much "microtrash" on the poppet, cleaned it and reassembled. Went in further with the retaining nut to .300" recess. It took air
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Not the hammer spring. All the following appears to be dealing with the valve and poppet and getting it to hold air:
let's unscrew the poppet valve and clean it. Got it out, found the spring retaining nut recessed .200", (kind of weak at that setting) and unscrewed it. not much "microtrash" on the poppet, cleaned it and reassembled. Went in further with the retaining nut to .300" recess. It took air
GOTCHA!!! There are 2 springs, one cone spring on the poppet and a straight spring on the hammer. I had forgotten the cone spring, thank you.
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Got home last night and no loss of air between 0500 and 2200 still 190 BAR. Remounted my scope and shot ten in the garage from 10 yards average about 1" low , before all this started it was dead on at 20 yards. So scope on /off lots of on/off with air tube and barrel band and increased tension on the poppet stem. No time for anything else last night. I am off Sunday after thirteen 12's in a row ,will shoot at 20 yards and chrony. If I am in the 825 to 850 fps and grouping well I will leave it alone. Last time I messed with the hammer spring was two months ago and I think I accidentally used high strength Loctite on the plug threads :o tried turning it in last night to no avail, judicious use of a heat gun will cure it, I've made this mistake before on other projects and have not learned my lesson yet apparently.
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Got home last night and no loss of air between 0500 and 2200 still 190 BAR. Remounted my scope and shot ten in the garage from 10 yards average about 1" low , before all this started it was dead on at 20 yards. So scope on /off lots of on/off with air tube and barrel band and increased tension on the poppet stem. No time for anything else last night. I am off Sunday after thirteen 12's in a row ,will shoot at 20 yards and chrony. If I am in the 825 to 850 fps and grouping well I will leave it alone. Last time I messed with the hammer spring was two months ago and I think I accidentally used high strength Loctite on the plug threads :o tried turning it in last night to no avail, judicious use of a heat gun will cure it, I've made this mistake before on other projects and have not learned my lesson yet apparently.
I haven't had my hammer spring cap move on its own, was yours creeping on you?
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No, never moved but I am an OCD Machinist. My intent was to put black finger nail polish on the threads but I am certain I used high strength Loctite. Finger nail polish acting as light thread locker.
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Why is it so hard to put up a diagram with the "O" ring sizes, ............... >:(
just about every other decent manufacture has them for their air guns,
then if we want to dismiss the warranty (which doesn't appear to apply anyhow),
we could at least get some use out of them.
I have fired a total of 6 shots due to the leaking from numerous spots, fix that and another starts,
all due to BAD "O" rings, since Dec 2020.
see post number 396 in this thread... Re: DAR Gen II is now available
« Reply #396 on: December 11, 2020, 09:18:56 PM »
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409)
I have taken my .25 apart ...oh ...probably 20 times for various reasons and can attest that the O Rings listed are all the right sizes.
I don't know why DAR hasn't posted them on their site, but this list should work for anyone looking to work on their own rifles.
I have my rifle shooting very well, and have had no trouble with it in the last few months.
I posted back in December that I'd do accuracy testing in a more complete way come the end of March and will keep that 'promise' as best I can.
so far the only things I have done are tuning for velocity and adding an LDC to the snout. what pot-shots I have taken at twigs on the snow banks have all hit their mark out to 40ish yards. for yucks I shot at a bank in my back yard at about 65 yards and though I hit several inches low, three pellets were in about a 3/4 inch spot. ...non-rested... so I think this will be a fine squirrel riffle for next autumn.
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I'm still working on going through the o rings and finding equivalence of them at McMaster or Granger. I can tell you that so far, I'm impressed with the o rings I have pulled. They may be cheap chi-com rings but they are duro70, no flashing, round, dont cut with the pick pulling them out, no cracks or signs of embrittlement.
The poppet has been my Achilles from day 1 but it looks like I figured that one out and am happy with the result.
Gonna shoot till I cant cast any more pellets today after work!
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I'm still working on going through the o rings and finding equivalence of them at McMaster or Granger. I can tell you that so far, I'm impressed with the o rings I have pulled. They may be cheap chi-com rings but they are duro70, no flashing, round, dont cut with the pick pulling them out, no cracks or signs of embrittlement.
The poppet has been my Achilles from day 1 but it looks like I figured that one out and am happy with the result.
Gonna shoot till I cant cast any more pellets today after work!
David do you think the poppet may be a root cause for all the leaks ???
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If you suspect the poppet to be leaking, strap a balloon over the muzzle and wait.
The actual barrel, not the shroud.
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I'm still working on going through the o rings and finding equivalence of them at McMaster or Granger. I can tell you that so far, I'm impressed with the o rings I have pulled. They may be cheap chi-com rings but they are duro70, no flashing, round, dont cut with the pick pulling them out, no cracks or signs of embrittlement.
The poppet has been my Achilles from day 1 but it looks like I figured that one out and am happy with the result.
Gonna shoot till I cant cast any more pellets today after work!
David do you think the poppet may be a root cause for all the leaks ???
Rich, good thing you caught me, I'm shootin till the cows come home tonight!
I can say this, my guns were leaking from the poppet seal and from the reg o rings. I fixed the second gun because (now I know this) the reg, under zero pressure in the first gun, came apart due to shipping mishandling and that gave me a clue where to start looking for issues inside it. I know, makes no sense, I'm eating and typing so I can get back to shooting!
65 cu ft tank is almost full! Shootin till I run out of pellets!
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You shooting indoors or you got a way to light the night?
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You shooting indoors or you got a way to light the night?
20 yards, indoors. ;D
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if you have not heard of these yet, they are almost as valuable as a crony for PCP shooters.
https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4? (https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4?)
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If you suspect the poppet to be leaking, strap a balloon over the muzzle and wait.
The actual barrel, not the shroud.
I just put the air tube in a clear glass of soapy water it works great , then just blow it dry with compressed air ... DAR really need's to come up with a high quality o ring replacement pack ... I told Joe at DAR that is a must have if you are selling air guns ::)...
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if you have not heard of these yet, they are almost as valuable as a crony for PCP shooters.
https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4? (https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4?)
Probably spend more time ultra sounding the rifle than shooting it...LOL
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Strange thing is my DAR .177 is solid as a Rock ... so far. Others recent experiences make me wonder ???
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The orings in mine must have been from the original run. Hard and flattened. Probably from setting in a hot warehouse. But found the problem ones and replaced them with what i had on hand.
The poppet leaked. But was an easy fix. It seem to be a lot better material than the mush that other rifles in this price range have.
Its an easy fix if you have a stubborn one. Just put a dab of jb bore paste or the likes. Id bet toothpaste would work. And just burnish it with a cordless drill. It will true up the mating surfaces and seal up nicely with little effort.
Mines been solid after a little work.
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Yeah I have a couple of them mush poppet guns also, my .22 wood is doing just fine, I did make a Insta Morph poppet for my .177, and it is still working fine but I do suspect a regulator leak, as it will loose some air yet if it sits for a few weeks.
Over all IMO the DAR is a better value vs the Nova Vista line. Seems if it has to hold air it will have issues no matter how much it cost.
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if you have not heard of these yet, they are almost as valuable as a crony for PCP shooters.
https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4? (https://www.amazon.com/BELEY-Ultrasonic-Transmitter-Headphone-Accessory/dp/B07PHS8MZM/ref=pd_di_sccai_4?)
Nice! The price is nice too!
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Strange thing is my DAR .177 is solid as a Rock ... so far. Others recent experiences make me wonder ???
That is what I thought about my DAR .22 and .25 ,,, they need complete tear downs and o ring replacement , and poppets seated better if needed ... probably have a good gun maybe after that .... my .25 is still holding air , but for how long is the question , if I end up keeping it I know I need to replace all the o rings , or it will wind up flat tire/air tube like the .22 did .... ::) and just think for mear pennies this could of all been prevented .. stupid little things like this can keep a gun ,and a bizz from being successful .... ;)
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Shot this AM first string average of 750 FPS. Heat gun on spring plug got it out with the help of a modified watch case wrench, (used loctite on the threads) cleaned up the threads and went in .125” deep . Note: I did cut one coil off the striker spring two months ago. Now I am averaging 825 FPS with CPHP and grouping nicely. FPS is a little more erratic than I would like but a I’ll see if it will settle in before messing with the poppet or striker spring anymore.
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Wrap the threads on the adjustment cap with dental floss. Works well for me.
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With the time change I have just a little time to shoot when getting home while working long hours. Shot again last night . Still had the same amount of air from where I left it on Sunday. Twenty more shots, no time for the chrony but grouped well. I have emailed and called AIM several times in the last week with no reply to emails or messages. Is Joe still our contact or do we even have customer support anymore ? Just wanted to let Joe know not to send me a tank and to ask about getting some parts. Usually I refuse to be a Beta tester and this is why. I have plenty of old and obscure firearms that are difficult to impossible to source parts for but I knew that going in when I purchased them. Guess I can always make a poppet stem if needed.
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How do I get to the poppet valve and regulator in DAR .25. Are they in the air tube? How to disassemble?
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How do I get to the poppet valve and regulator in DAR .25. Are they in the air tube? How to disassemble?
Yes but luckily, the air tube is easy to remove but you MUST degass the tube first.
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If you guys were to guess which huma regulator would fit our rifles.
I think the ones that comes with the rifle is not very consistent.
I am also getting ready to order a couple barrels (.22 and .25) would you guys go poly or standard?
Almost forgot for the barrel i do want to be able to shoot slugs.
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FWIW, the regulators in both my gen 1 and gen 2 work beautifully. The gen 1 did exhibit some pressure creep after being left idle but so do the regulators in some $1000+ rifles. Smoothing the valve seat took care of it. I still haven't touched the regulator in the gen 2.
For example, this string from the gen 1 is a straight run of shots inside of a 2% ES until it begins falling off the regulator:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6030)
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FWIW, the regulators in both my gen 1 and gen 2 work beautifully. The gen 1 did exhibit some pressure creep after being left idle but so do the regulators in some $1000+ rifles. Smoothing the valve seat took care of it. I still haven't touched the regulator in the gen 2.
Jason, very nice impressive data.
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Nice shot string, Jason! Regretfully, I have to adjust mine, I get 14 shots before falling off with 25.2 gr WC.
# FPS FT-LBS PF
20 786 0.00 0.00
19 805 0.00 0.00
18 812 0.00 0.00
17 823 0.00 0.00
16 833 0.00 0.00
15 847 0.00 0.00
14 861 0.00 0.00
13 860 0.00 0.00
12 858 0.00 0.00
11 861 0.00 0.00
10 865 0.00 0.00
9 857 0.00 0.00
8 860 0.00 0.00
7 857 0.00 0.00
6 857 0.00 0.00
5 861 0.00 0.00
4 860 0.00 0.00
3 861 0.00 0.00
2 861 0.00 0.00
1 873 0.00 0.00
Average: 847.90
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How do I get to the poppet valve and regulator in DAR .25. Are they in the air tube? How to disassemble?
Yes but luckily, the air tube is easy to remove but you MUST degass the tube first.
I have the air tube removed, but how do I disassemble it?
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How do I get to the poppet valve and regulator in DAR .25. Are they in the air tube? How to disassemble?
Yes but luckily, the air tube is easy to remove but you MUST degass the tube first.
I have the air tube removed, but how do I disassemble it?
Both ends just screw in but dont use the gauge to remove that end. I used mommas 'jar opener' tacky pad to get a grip and put the tube in a padded voice.
Keep track of what goes on which end, the tube looks the same from the outside once you have both ends off.
Once the ends are off, you remove the reg from the fill side by pushing a dowel down the tube and push out the reg and plenum out the valve end.
Take care to catch the plenum tube! Once out, the reg just pulls apart with the black and silver pieces being held together by o rings.
I have 2 different reg screws on my DARs, slotted on the .22 and hex on the .25. I have not spun either all the way in in fear of damaging the innards.
The poppet is in the valve end and is removed by turning the nut with four holes counterclockwise, there is a cone spring behind that. Count the turns so you can replace it the way it came out.
The poppet stem on mine looks to be titanium with a black delrin seal. The poppet seats on my DARs are both different, brass on my .22 and aluminum on my .25.
I did not remove the seats and I did not lube the stems in fear of fouling the seat. I cleaned them with alchohol and blew them dry.
I use a silicone gel for assembly and use "enough" to do the job. Once reassembled, I charge the tube with air. This way, I have the poppet stem at hand and can "bump" it or turn it to seat the poppet.
WARNING! Do not do this! I did so at my own risk and it worked like a charm but I do not recomend you do this!
I chucked up a very lightweight battery powered drill the the stem and turned it counterclockwise slowly until the poppet seated completely then topped off the tube, tapped the stem a couple times to ensure the poppet seated without leaking and then assembled the gun.
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Regarding which end of the tube is which, there is a small vent hole in the side that is nearest the end where the valve and regulator are installed.
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Regarding which end of the tube is which, there is a small vent hole in the side that is nearest the end where the valve and regulator are installed.
VERY small.... ;D
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This big (.)
LOL.
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I talked to Joe ar DAR today , they are now trying to figure out a new poppet for the gun since they are having. trouble with sealing , so there might be delays getting my gun .22 back ... posting off my phone , its comming up that I am banned from this site gta on my computer but I guess from me using ipvanish ...this is causing this to happen from what a couple guys told me over at AGN so I tried shutting down ipvanish clearing the cache on browser but still comes up banned. ...so not sure what to do at this point ... but try again ..so I am posting at AGN for now till I get it figured out ..
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I talked to Joe ar DAR today , they are now trying to figure out a new poppet for the gun since they are having. trouble with sealing , so there might be delays getting my gun .22 back ... posting off my phone , its comming up that I am banned from this site gta on my computer but I guess from me using ipvanish ...this is causing this to happen from what a couple guys told me over at AGN so I tried shutting down ipvanish clearing the cache on browser but still comes up banned. ...so not sure what to do at this point ... but try again ..so I am posting at AGN for now till I get it figured out ..
That's good news.... kinda. I sure have had my share of poppet issues and it would be good to get a poppet that would seal at low pressure.
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I still use a simple jig to flatten and smooth the sealing face of a newly machined poppet or an OEM one that isn’t sealing properly:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=161628.msg155800603 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=161628.msg155800603)
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Well, I just had my first phone con with DAR and Ryan answered...he then relayed my call to warranty repair and no one answered...so I called the operator and she relayed my question and I received an e-mail from MIKE right away asking if I wanted a replacement or a refund. I responded that I would like the rifle repaired but if replacing is an option I would be ok with that.
That was 11:05 AM PST.
No response yet so now I'll re-group over the weekend and may just contact them again Monday with a very different response.
Once bitten, twice shy as they say.
And, by the way, Ryan answered on their Customer Service line.
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Well, I just had my first phone con with DAR and Ryan answered...he then relayed my call to warranty repair and no one answered...so I called the operator and she relayed my question and I received an e-mail from MIKE right away asking if I wanted a replacement or a refund. I responded that I would like the rifle repaired but if replacing is an option I would be ok with that.
That was 11:05 AM PST.
No response yet so now I'll re-group over the weekend and may just contact them again Monday with a very different response.
Once bitten, twice shy as they say.
And, by the way, Ryan answered on their Customer Service line.
Not Joe? Wow, I wonder what is going on there now? :o
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Well, I just had my first phone con with DAR and Ryan answered...he then relayed my call to warranty repair and no one answered...so I called the operator and she relayed my question and I received an e-mail from MIKE right away asking if I wanted a replacement or a refund. I responded that I would like the rifle repaired but if replacing is an option I would be ok with that.
That was 11:05 AM PST.
No response yet so now I'll re-group over the weekend and may just contact them again Monday with a very different response.
Once bitten, twice shy as they say.
And, by the way, Ryan answered on their Customer Service line.
Not Joe? Wow, I wonder what is going on there now? :o
I would not read to much into that as Mike has been there all along. Be neat to see an organization chart....lol.
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I'm very happy with my DARs right now, I bought a second .25 today and I am hoping to make a slug gun from it. I do really like the way they are made, simple, easy to break down, accurate and comfortable. I'm going to stay the course...
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I'm very happy with my DARs right now, I bought a second .25 today and I am hoping to make a slug gun from it. I do really like the way they are made, simple, easy to break down, accurate and comfortable. I'm going to stay the course...
Reconditioned ? Private party sale ?
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No trick at all if he bought the one in the classifieds.... It certainly didn't last long.
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Strange thing is my DAR .177 is solid as a Rock ... so far. Others recent experiences make me wonder ???
i hope my new to granddaughter .177 shows some promise, she wants to challenge her gauntlet to the xstreams 8)
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Just imagine 500 people in a room chewing bubble gum to make O-Rings.
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No trick at all if he bought the one in the classifieds.... It certainly didn't last long.
Yupper, it popped up and I grabbed it. There may still be a .177 left though.
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Just imagine 500 people in a room chewing bubble gum to make O-Rings.
Meh, they work for me. Sorry... :-\
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No trick at all if he bought the one in the classifieds.... It certainly didn't last long.
Yupper, it popped up and I grabbed it. There may still be a .177 left though.
.177 is gone 8)
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LOL John... I was editing the .25 out when I noticed the .177 got gone so I just sent the whole shebang to the archive.
Looks like both bought very well. And the seller gets to buy his new compressor.
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I talked to Joe ar DAR today , they are now trying to figure out a new poppet for the gun since they are having. trouble with sealing , so there might be delays getting my gun .22 back ... posting off my phone , its comming up that I am banned from this site gta on my computer but I guess from me using ipvanish ...this is causing this to happen from what a couple guys told me over at AGN so I tried shutting down ipvanish clearing the cache on browser but still comes up banned. ...so not sure what to do at this point ... but try again ..so I am posting at AGN for now till I get it figured out ..
Dan your GTA profile is updating.... I had a similar issue a few years back on another forum and even the site owner could do nothing...never did figure that one out.
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I talked to Joe ar DAR today , they are now trying to figure out a new poppet for the gun since they are having. trouble with sealing , so there might be delays getting my gun .22 back ... posting off my phone , its comming up that I am banned from this site gta on my computer but I guess from me using ipvanish ...this is causing this to happen from what a couple guys told me over at AGN so I tried shutting down ipvanish clearing the cache on browser but still comes up banned. ...so not sure what to do at this point ... but try again ..so I am posting at AGN for now till I get it figured out ..
Dan your GTA profile is updating.... I had a similar issue a few years back on another forum and even the site owner could do nothing...never did figure that one out.
My .25 DAR is still holding air but I am expecting it to go flat at any moment ::), maybe we need to get 1 company to source these from , I might jump over to a large Portland Oregon O ring place and see if I can come up with replacement set for the whole gun , maybe have them match the original pack of o rings that came with the gun with a better size for the tiny reg o ring , the one in the back up pack does not work just leaks ! ::)
I had to set up a second profile in my browser to be able to log in to gta , my original personal profile in the browser says I have been banned every time I have tried to log in to GTA , I can get on AGN or any other site I have normally logged in to , its just GTA that does this now after I ran IPVANISH ...even if I have IPVANISH turned off now ,and clear history it still says I am banned :P,
I wonder how many people have had this happened ,and thought they were really banned ,and just gave up on GTA , and went else where , this is what it says when I try to log in on my personal profile browser setting that I have always used ... GTA page reads =
" Sorry Dan H, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire. "
pretty crazy ! so for now i will just use the profile 2 i set up on my browser I guess for just gta and never use this profile 2 when running IPVANISH , I like running it because it blocks big tech tracking/adds junk ! I really don't like them tracking me ,and jamming adds down my throat with items I search for ... I use IPVANISH on my TV with amazon 4k fire stick with apps with massive content to watch , troypoint.com covers how to do this step by step {side load apps you normally cant }, and now after doing this I canceled DIRICTV ... NO more plus 100 buck bills coming from DTV ! ;D ;D ;D ;D and I have 1000's of more times the content of Directv or xfinity ... motor trend and klowd tv apps is all I pay for 70 bucks a year for those ,the rest of the apps I run are free no charge apps ...
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so. I have had very little time to play but I shot ten shots quickly, today, at 31 yards (just where I sit on the steps to the target...no other reason) and came up with these two 5 shot groups for the first of a bunch of shooting to follow in the coming weeks. all the shots averaged right at 831FPS with an S.D. of 9 not including the first shot which was at 850.
There was a little puff variable wind, not much at all.
This DAR .25 had held air quite well, but clearly has a little regulator creep as demonstrated by the first shot velocity...but the impact seemed similar...soo.... The rifle had been charged fully for three weeks when I took these shots.
I will keep posting as I go, which will not be SUPER often as life and other projects are also in my to-do queue.
I'll post one picture of one of my other projects
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Just a friendly note, the first shot being 20fps fast suggests you can back off the hammer spring a smidge and get more shots per fill.
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Just a friendly note, the first shot being 20fps fast suggests you can back off the hammer spring a smidge and get more shots per fill.
good info !!
i just got my granddaughter a gen 2 .177, and its all over the place ....even with 3 scopes and 6 different quality pellets
how do you adjust the HS ?
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The disc at the back of the receiver. It has 2 dimples in it to grab with a spanner wrench or a fine set of needle nose pliers.
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I will likely play a little with the hammer spring but I don't want to lose the 40 ft/lb average. I have already settled on the roughly 20 shots at a good average ... it is a tree squirrel gun after all....not a target gun. I don't need a perfect wicked awesome spectabulationary gun. 8) :o 8)
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It takes a massive amount of air to squeeze out the last 5% of a rifle's velocity.
But that's not the only downside. Being tuned up on the plateau will also magnify the effect of regulator creep. Tuning to 95 - 97% of the peak velocity will improve both.
For example my .25 cal is providing 31 shots at 45fpe, having done nothing more than adjusting the hammer spring tension:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6030)
And the first shot is on point at the 43 yard zero after sitting idle overnight:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6029)
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It takes a massive amount of air to squeeze out the last 5% of a rifle's velocity.
But that's not the only downside. Being tuned up on the plateau will also magnify the effect of regulator creep. Tuning to 95 - 97% of the peak velocity will improve both.
For example my .25 cal is providing 31 shots at 45fpe, having done nothing more than adjusting the hammer spring tension:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6030)
And the first shot is on point at the 43 yard zero after sitting idle overnight:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6029)
Jason, did you shorten the spring? I can't define my .25 down any more due to the cap being backed out as far as it will go.
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If you can't get the velocity to drop with the adjuster backed all the way out, yes go ahead and take a turn off the spring and try again.
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It takes a massive amount of air to squeeze out the last 5% of a rifle's velocity.
But that's not the only downside. Being tuned up on the plateau will also magnify the effect of regulator creep. Tuning to 95 - 97% of the peak velocity will improve both.
For example my .25 cal is providing 31 shots at 45fpe, having done nothing more than adjusting the hammer spring tension:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6030)
And the first shot is on point at the 43 yard zero after sitting idle overnight:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6029)
Jason, did you shorten the spring? I can't define my .25 down any more due to the cap being backed out as far as it will go.
I routed the back of my stock so I can get 3 1/2 turns out. Just restain the stock and rub in some true oil.
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If you can't get the velocity to drop with the adjuster backed all the way out, yes go ahead and take a turn off the spring and try again.
In the .25, I played with the reg and it's all over the place no matter the setting, the hammer was the only place any velocity change showed but the shot count stayed rock solid at 14 no matter the combination I used.
In the .22, I got/get 30 shots at 840 fps with CPHP so I am VERY happy with that one.
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It takes a massive amount of air to squeeze out the last 5% of a rifle's velocity.
But that's not the only downside. Being tuned up on the plateau will also magnify the effect of regulator creep. Tuning to 95 - 97% of the peak velocity will improve both.
For example my .25 cal is providing 31 shots at 45fpe, having done nothing more than adjusting the hammer spring tension:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6030)
And the first shot is on point at the 43 yard zero after sitting idle overnight:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6029)
Jason, did you shorten the spring? I can't define my .25 down any more due to the cap being backed out as far as it will go.
I routed the back of my stock so I can get 3 1/2 turns out. Just restain the stock and rub in some true oil.
I have a stock with a bruise on the ears so I need to sand/stain that area anyway, routing sounds like a great idea.
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Once you do that it also makes a great thumb rest.
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Once you do that it also makes a great thumb rest.
I like the way you think! ;D I find the DAR stock to be very uncomfortable for bench shooting so a thumb rest might be the ticket!
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Off today after thirteen twelve hour days . My DAR is still holding air after tightening the poppet valve spring. Lessened the hammer spring to .100” recessed and it is getting more consistent.
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I purchased a cheap Oring kit at HF yes I know probably 70 duro instead of preferred 90. I finally got it to stop leaking out of the vent hole I think. I have it pressured up to 20mpa I will see if it holds air over night.
Very close to Nervoustriggers orings I used. Small end of inter reg spool 006 super tight fit large end 011 OD reg body 112 the barrel the reg sits in 116.
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Talked to Joe about my DAR .22 today. Everything is cool and we shared info/ideas re some of the issues and it was a good chat.
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Are these going to be available again at some point?
I will admit I didn't read all the pages here, yet.
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Are these going to be available again at some point? Yes
I will admit I didn't read all the pages here, yet. Bummer
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Are these going to be available again at some point?
I will admit I didn't read all the pages here, yet.
Their stock is low so they are fixing those rifles along with customer warranty rifles....I did not ask about next shipment.
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Are these going to be available again at some point?
I will admit I didn't read all the pages here, yet.
Their stock is low so they are fixing those rifles along with customer warranty rifles....I did not ask about next shipment.
Hmmmm. Joe told me that they had a shipment arriving in February, then they stopped selling until the o rings were changed out.
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The sad part of this story is that you have an American company trying desperately to put out a good product, but the Chinese manufacturer has let them down twice. I wouldn't blame Aim Sports if they threw in the towel on this one but they have enough integrity that they're still trying to make things right. I hope they can reign in this company's directors and get the QC issues resolved permanently. I'd hate to see another American company get sc--ed over by the Chinese looking for quantity over quality.
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This is what happens when you go with the cheapest bidder.
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The sad part of this story is that you have an American company trying desperately to put out a good product, but the Chinese manufacturer has let them down twice. I wouldn't blame Aim Sports if they threw in the towel on this one but they have enough integrity that they're still trying to make things right. I hope they can reign in this company's directors and get the QC issues resolved permanently. I'd hate to see another American company get sc--ed over by the Chinese looking for quantity over quality.
HA ! maybe they should ship the quality o rings to the manufacture to install in their guns , or go to Taiwan for manufacturing , and tell the chines to pound sand is what I would do ... ::) ::) ::) ....
I bought a AEA Challenger .357 so far I like it ... hammer spring is on the heavy side so is the trigger ,as it's breaking in it seems to be getting a bit better trigger wise and bolt is smoothing out more also , now AEA made in China also had problem's with o rings when the Terminator semi auto .357 came , and since they have solved that problem , so far at 3400 psi charge {3600 max fill } first shot is close to 1000 fps with 81 g JSB , 10 shot is 880 fps , and as you might guess it hits like a sledge hammer , and below 940 fps with those pellets its possible hole threw hole shots at 50 yards tested so far ,,,,
Bin - sig shooter on you tube claims 124 g slug has hit right at 900 fps , and I will be testing my new NOE pellet , and slug .359 molds out sized to .357 going to start out with 88g hollow point / or casted with same mold as flat nose bullet , I am hoping to push those close to 1000 fps or lower pressure lower fps which ever is more accurate ,,, test ! test ! ;D ;D ;D Challenger was 530 bucks shipped to my door ...
Hoping my DAR .22 comes back with new orings and reg set correctly soon , when that gun was holding air it was fantastic cheap shooting fun with CHP 14.3 ammo that I bought 12 tins of for shooting in that gun because it shoots them pin point at 50 yards with no wind ....
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Matt and Tom,
I understand the disappointment but these are actually very well made and well crafted. At this point, it's an o ring problem and from all the posts I have read on PCP's across the world, any company can have issues with them at any time.
In my particular case, it's been a poppet issue, the o rings are holding fine for now.
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Replacing orings dont bother me my dar is a gen 2 prerelease. What dose bother me that I had to figure out what orings to use.
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David, I have no iron in the fire, had a gen one, loved the look and feel of the gun, and was easy to disassemble and work on, but the machining internally on the gen one where the orings sit was so poor that they had to put shim tape under the orings to make them seal. Haven't heard of any having this problem on the gen two but all the oring issues gotta make me wonder. The gun was at a great price and still think the potential is there to have a great shooter.
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Mine is still functioning as intended.... just putting that out there.
One thing is for sure... those are some of the best mags I've seen with a $300 gun. And price for spares was real good too... unlike the Urban... and for the record... that's about the only complaint I have with the Urban.
I like the DAR .25... and I like my Avenger. The only thing I like more about the DAR, aside from the mags and wood, is the length of the gun. For me, the Avenger edges it out in all other areas.
That's my opinion... you are more than welcome to yours... I'll respect it. ;)
BTW... If the urban would have had a full shroud, side lever and came in .25 regulated.. I just might not even own the DAR or the Avenger right now.
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Matt and Tom,
I understand the disappointment but these are actually very well made and well crafted. At this point, it's an o ring problem and from all the posts I have read on PCP's across the world, any company can have issues with them at any time.
In my particular case, it's been a poppet issue, the o rings are holding fine for now.
Are you still having a poppet issue?
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David, I have no iron in the fire, had a gen one, loved the look and feel of the gun, and was easy to disassemble and work on, but the machining internally on the gen one where the orings sit was so poor that they had to put shim tape under the orings to make them seal. Haven't heard of any having this problem on the gen two but all the oring issues gotta make me wonder. The gun was at a great price and still think the potential is there to have a great shooter.
Looking at the o-rings, they look pretty good to me and they seem to be setting about right in the tubes.
I went ahead and changed out all the ones I had in the bag on the .22 but both .25s are holding firm.
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Matt and Tom,
I understand the disappointment but these are actually very well made and well crafted. At this point, it's an o ring problem and from all the posts I have read on PCP's across the world, any company can have issues with them at any time.
In my particular case, it's been a poppet issue, the o rings are holding fine for now.
Are you still having a poppet issue?
Nope! I burnished them with a drill chucked up on the hammer end with air in the tube and ran really slow counterclockwise about a half dozen turns or less and it seated perfectly.
If I degass it, I do have to use a bottle to air it up and tap the poppet stem a couple times to seat it.
I think it's an issue with the seat but I cannot remove them to polish them.
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BTW, I am still looking for an accurate pellet/slug for the .25s, they need to group as well as the .22 with CPHPs to be useful.
On magazines: I've said it before and I'll yell it from the mountain tops, these are all aluminium mags, no plastic, no fancy "turn the lid, load the first one backward from the other side then flip it over and try to load the rest without letting the cover over rotate", just load sequentially and done!
10 pellets for the .25!
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I love the DAR mags the only problem I have is when I shoot one or the other(DAR/Mrod style) for a while then switch😳
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Mine is still functioning as intended.... just putting that out there.
One thing is for sure... those are some of the best mags I've seen with a $300 gun. And price for spares was real good too... unlike the Urban... and for the record... that's about the only complaint I have with the Urban.
I like the DAR .25... and I like my Avenger. The only thing I like more about the DAR, aside from the mags and wood, is the length of the gun. For me, the Avenger edges it out in all other areas.
That's my opinion... you are more than welcome to yours... I'll respect it. ;)
BTW... If the urban would have had a full shroud, side lever and came in .25 regulated.. I just might not even own the DAR or the Avenger right now.
Bill, I share those exact opinions. I have all three. The Urban is one of the neatest feeling in the hands, the wood and shorter length on the DAR edges out the Avenger. My .25 Avenger and the Urban .22 will both slice a playing card in half at 30 yards with little trouble and I expect my DAR will after I get it on a bench and find the right pellet.
This coming autumn I will rotate them daily for tree squirrels, I imagine.
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I suspect if I tuned the reg found the proper pellet or slug and done my work my dar will be in the NUHY.
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Update on the orings needle has not budged once it settled in with the temp drop from the quick fill.
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I guess I will call AIM sports tomorrow and get ,and update on my leaker .22 .... getting a flat on the DAR is like getting a flat on my corvette ! LOL ! with out air you ain't going no where ... ;D ;D ;)
trouble with the vette is - they tell you to run , run flat tires that cost like crazy but do not perform like the good none run flat tires , since the vette has no spare .... so I keep a small electric pump and a tire plug kit for repair ..... if that doesn't work out then triple AAA takes over , to bad they can't fix the DAR'S flat fast like they do the car tire .... my .25 DAR is still holding air I think I will pull the trigger on that one tomorrow see how many dime size circles I can kill LOL ! ... ;D ;D
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Mine is still functioning as intended.... just putting that out there.
One thing is for sure... those are some of the best mags I've seen with a $300 gun. And price for spares was real good too... unlike the Urban... and for the record... that's about the only complaint I have with the Urban.
I like the DAR .25... and I like my Avenger. The only thing I like more about the DAR, aside from the mags and wood, is the length of the gun. For me, the Avenger edges it out in all other areas.
That's my opinion... you are more than welcome to yours... I'll respect it. ;)
BTW... If the urban would have had a full shroud, side lever and came in .25 regulated.. I just might not even own the DAR or the Avenger right now.
The mags are fantastic on the DAR ,for 20 bucks you can't beat the aluminum mags ....
AEA challenger I just bought has some very good mags cnc aluminum with a button of metal that is attaches to bottom of the mag .... a magnet in the action grabs that small metal piece on the mag ,and there is a spring loaded ball bearing in the action ..that locates it's self on a machined out round spot on the bottom of the mag... its aliened so good when you cycle the bolt you cant feel it making contact with any thing ... with jsb .357 pellets you cant even feel them make contact with the probe or go into the barrel... in fact it feels like the mag is empty with no resistance ....
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
Mine did that i just used that itty bitty o-ring in the pack it came with.
Not a problem since.
I do not know where that o-ring goes, but it fits and it works good.
I just dropped the oring in and dropped the little ball on top of it. Don't have to tighten it very much with the o-ring in.
How long will that last? Don't know, but i have degagassed it at least a dozen times with the o-ring in.
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Herm ether my ball is missing or it's under the oring. If I need to adjust the reg I'll look.
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
Yep that's the exact same thing that happened with mine except the screw wouldn't come out and that's the last that I messed with it, I did try an easy out on it but it didn't work. I was going to try liquid steel on it to seal it up completely but never did. I'll have to get hold of him and let him know what happened.
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
Mine did that i just used that itty bitty o-ring in the pack it came with.
Not a problem since.
I do not know where that o-ring goes, but it fits and it works good.
I just dropped the oring in and dropped the little ball on top of it. Don't have to tighten it very much with the o-ring in.
How long will that last? Don't know, but i have degagassed it at least a dozen times with the o-ring in.
I followed your lead and fixed mine the same way. What's that little o-ring for anyway?
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
Mine did that i just used that itty bitty o-ring in the pack it came with.
Not a problem since.
I do not know where that o-ring goes, but it fits and it works good.
I just dropped the oring in and dropped the little ball on top of it. Don't have to tighten it very much with the o-ring in.
How long will that last? Don't know, but i have degagassed it at least a dozen times with the o-ring in.
I followed your lead and fixed mine the same way. What's that little o-ring for anyway?
Not a single clue. It just started leaking and I remembered that little o-ring in the bag and said if it fits, it obviously goes there.
Occam's razor I always say.
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I'm staying away from cross-posting here so this is NOT one of the pictures already posted, I promise!
I am working on opening up the stock so I can adjust the hammer tension on the fly in the new to me, .25. I'm having a devil of a time finding the place where I get the best accuracy. Hoping this will help.
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I just got off the phone with Joe at Aim sports , he said they are going to replace my whole air tube assembly on my .22 ... another thing he said they are having issues with the bleeder screw ball that it seals against , he said when you loosen it to bleed the air pressure down to just crack that screw open as little as possible to leak the air pressure out of the gun , because the ball can come out of place ,and get deformed trying to tighten it back up ,.... now my .22 had this issue and it/ little ball was deformed ,and it won't seal properly after that .... I was able to seal it up with that problem using plumbers tape ... so just barely open the bleeder screw to make it slow leak the pressure out to avoid this issue ...
Yep that's the exact same thing that happened with mine except the screw wouldn't come out and that's the last that I messed with it, I did try an easy out on it but it didn't work. I was going to try liquid steel on it to seal it up completely but never did. I'll have to get hold of him and let him know what happened.
Yes that was a design issue not your fault , and not my fault Joe told me over the phone , also they are going to replace the o rings on all the new guns going out at this point , so it doesn't turn in to more of a mess to deal with customers returning more guns for o ring issues ...
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
I opened mine up a bit also for an ssg.
But all you would have to do is cut a slot in the cap so you could use a small flat blade screwdriver. Then drill a small hole in the stock to adjust it.
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Why can't the Hammer Spring adjuster just be tapped/drilled for suitable set screw, dead square center,
Loc-tited in and then drill a hole or small notch cut in the stock where needed?
Should make for a cleaner install.... ;)
I'll call Joe/Mike in the AM and see if they (DAR) have a diagram and "O" ring list posted yet,
I don't hold out much hope, for positive results............. ::)
I just have to decide which brand, I am going to get to go with my other AR's, Sentry or Gauntlet,
I am getting all 3 cal's in the same in the same brand name/model etc.
Tia,
Don
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
I opened mine up a bit also for an ssg.
But all you would have to do is cut a slot in the cap so you could use a small flat blade screwdriver. Then drill a small hole in the stock to adjust it.
I do like the SSG mod how did you do it exactly?
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Why can't the Hammer Spring adjuster just be tapped/drilled for suitable set screw, dead square center,
Loc-tited in and then drill a hole or small notch cut in the stock where needed?
Should make for a cleaner install.... ;)
That is a nice option.
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I do like the SSG mod how did you do it exactly?
[/quote]
Heavier spring from McMaster car.
T-nut, screw and nylock nut from the local hardware. Easiest ssg I've put together. On my .22 50 shots @900fps with crosmans or 43 shots at 900 with jsb 16's.
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That has got to be one of the simplest SSGs to make thanks for sharing that, I may just do that. I have a .25 spring would you care to measure yours and I will measure mine to see if there is a difference?
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Heavier spring from McMaster car.
T-nut, screw and nylock nut from the local hardware. Easiest ssg I've put together. On my .22 50 shots @900fps with crosmans or 43 shots at 900 with jsb 16's.
Very nice numbers there. You should sell those.
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
The camera angle makes it look a lot deeper than it is, still plenty of wood there for strength. You can drill and cut a hex opening yourself with an arbor press. You just hollow grind 0.001" off the shank of a shortened hex wrench except for the very end and press it through (straight) the round hole you drill.
Long range PB shooting from a sled, you never wrap your hand around the stock, its the pointer finger pressure only and your thump needs to rest somewhere without cramping it so the thumb generally remains straight so you dont inject your heartbeat into the shot. For tactical shooting.... well, its always a handgrip, never a horizontal grip like you find on wooden stocks. I feel much more comfortable with a thumb notch in this case.
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I do like the SSG mod how did you do it exactly?
Heavier spring from McMaster car.
T-nut, screw and nylock nut from the local hardware. Easiest ssg I've put together. On my .22 50 shots @900fps with crosmans or 43 shots at 900 with jsb 16's.
[/quote]
I'm way too new at this, what is an SSG?
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Guys, I've been following this from the beginning, very interesting.
Rod, Nice SSG you've made there!
Here's the thread on the" Stopping Spring Guide ".
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=102095.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=102095.0)
HTH
Hunter
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Okay, I just checked, there are 959 posts in that thread, I will give a summary.
SSG: the Stopping Spring Guide.
In a Precharged pneumatic air rifle the valve is held shut by a small spring, and air pressure.
The hammer spring slams the hammer into the valve actuator, but the air pressure oposses it. It's a spring and heavy mass against a spring and mass. This can bounce a few times. The pellet may have already left the barrel, so it's a waste of air.
The SSG prevents this waste of air so you get more shots from the same amount of air.
In Rod's example the spring can compress when cocked. When the trigger is pulled the spring can expand until it is constrained by the T-nut to nynlock dimension. This will prevent hammer bounce.
HTH
Hunter
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
The camera angle makes it look a lot deeper than it is, still plenty of wood there for strength. You can drill and cut a hex opening yourself with an arbor press. You just hollow grind 0.001" off the shank of a shortened hex wrench except for the very end and press it through (straight) the round hole you drill.
Long range PB shooting from a sled, you never wrap your hand around the stock, its the pointer finger pressure only and your thump needs to rest somewhere without cramping it so the thumb generally remains straight so you dont inject your heartbeat into the shot. For tactical shooting.... well, its always a handgrip, never a horizontal grip like you find on wooden stocks. I feel much more comfortable with a thumb notch in this case.
David, I shot Service Rifle and 3P Smallbore for many years and grew accustomed to wrapping my thumb around the grip and did this with any and every long gun . Only recently did I acquire a "Chassis" long range rifle and started using the starboard side thumb grip, it do work. Now I pretty much use that grip with all long guns but shotguns.
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I do like the SSG mod how did you do it exactly?
Heavier spring from McMaster car.
T-nut, screw and nylock nut from the local hardware. Easiest ssg I've put together. On my .22 50 shots @900fps with crosmans or 43 shots at 900 with jsb 16's.
[/quote]
Would you be so kind as to link the spring? ;D
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Here ya go.
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WOW David that looks like a lot of material you removed there. I know it was mentioned something about thumb placement and that is subjective and not for me. Old Army in me dictates to wrap the thumb around and no place for up and or over in any combination. I know it may work for others but not for me, however I may hog out some material to adjust it. I would rather purchase an aftermarket cap with a hex in it and only drill a small hole in the stock for an allen key.
The camera angle makes it look a lot deeper than it is, still plenty of wood there for strength. You can drill and cut a hex opening yourself with an arbor press. You just hollow grind 0.001" off the shank of a shortened hex wrench except for the very end and press it through (straight) the round hole you drill.
Long range PB shooting from a sled, you never wrap your hand around the stock, its the pointer finger pressure only and your thump needs to rest somewhere without cramping it so the thumb generally remains straight so you dont inject your heartbeat into the shot. For tactical shooting.... well, its always a handgrip, never a horizontal grip like you find on wooden stocks. I feel much more comfortable with a thumb notch in this case.
I dont have a shop so home jober would be a set screw held tight with loctite. I dont shoot like that so no grip changes for now.
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Here ya go.
Thanks rod I'll measure my stock spring soon.
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.25 oem spring is .474 x .058 x 1.683
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.25 oem spring is .474 x .058 x 1.683
For what it's worth, my gen1 in .25 cal measured 0.475 x 0.059 x 1.75 so just a smidge longer.
I changed it to a substantially shorter and somewhat stiffer one (0.475 x 0.062 x 1.35). Pretty sure I changed it out because I couldn't back off of the preload enough to get to the knee for a ~1600psi setpoint. I would have simply cut it but I lucked out and found a candidate in my spring assortment.
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My stock measures .426 x .047 x 1.87
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I did get through on the phone with Joe at Aimsports and I've got what I need coming in the next several days . . . . very cool 8)
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Wayne
I am glad you got thru as I haven't been able too, tried numerous times for the last couple 3 hrs,
I get 1 ring and then the phone goes dead.....calling this number = 909-923-7883, it's listed to southern Calif.
Don
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I did get through on the phone with Joe at Aimsports and I've got what I need coming in the next several days . . . . very cool 8)
Glad to hear that they are following through on their warranty.
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Wayne
I am glad you got thru as I haven't been able too, tried numerous times for the last couple 3 hrs,
I get 1 ring and then the phone goes dead.....calling this number = 909-923-7883, it's listed to southern Calif.
Don
Try this Don.
909-923-2228
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Rich
Thanks for that number, it went thru on the 1st try,
talked to Joe for a few minutes and he is sending the parts I need, to fix the 17 Dar.............. 8)
Now I had better order some Heavy weight ammo for it............ ;D,
I have several different cans of the lite weight ammo for testing,
had a couple of Ranchers/Farm owners contact me to clean out the Flying Rats, HS and Starlings,
and Sage Bunny's in the hay fields................... 8)
Thank you,
Don
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Rich
Thanks for that number, it went thru on the 1st try,
talked to Joe for a few minutes and he is sending the parts I need, to fix the 17 Dar.............. 8)
Now I had better order some Heavy weight ammo for it............ ;D,
I have several different cans of the lite weight ammo for testing,
had a couple of Ranchers/Farm owners contact me to clean out the Flying Rats, HS and Starlings,
and Sage Bunny's in the hay fields................... 8)
Thank you,
Don
I went thru the same drill as you. Glad to have helped out. My good deed for the day. Lol.
Rich
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I am planning out how I want to assemble my DARtact, or is that TactDAR? Any way, I laid it out tonight to look at the distances and shouldered up a mockup, decided on grip location and but stock location. Next, I will turn the tube down to get rid of the threads on the buttstock, turn some Al tube down to friction fit the stock, turn it down to fit the threaded hammer spring cavity, thread inside and out so I can fit a plug inside the tube for the hammer spring.
Then I need to cut and form a single piece of Al that will fit the grip and fit the fire control group cavity on the back end, drill and pin it, drill and thread the grip screw then send it off to get TIG welded to the tube.
The end result should be a sub 5# (without scope) DAR with collapsible stock for hunting that I can throw in the UTV.
Here is the mockup so far.
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Very cool David! 8) Can't wait to see the finished product.
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I don't believe this,
Well if that don't jerk the slack out of your shorts,
Received a email from Mike,
Stating:
You can send your rifle in for full warranty replacement.
We will not have a diagram anytime soon and taking the gun that far apart will void your warranty.
-Mike
I can see that Dar won't honor their warranty, as I have already replaced a couple of leaking "O" rings and PSI gage, and still the leaks continue.
I am not liking this.............but will with hold any further comments, pending actions, to see the results etc.
Tia,
Don
Rich
Thanks for that number, it went thru on the 1st try,
talked to Joe for a few minutes and he is sending the parts I need, to fix the 17 Dar.............. 8)
Now I had better order some Heavy weight ammo for it............ ;D,
I have several different cans of the lite weight ammo for testing,
had a couple of Ranchers/Farm owners contact me to clean out the Flying Rats, HS and Starlings,
and Sage Bunny's in the hay fields................... 8) Thank you, Don
I went thru the same drill as you. Glad to have helped out. My good deed for the day. Lol. Rich
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I don't believe this,
Well if that don't jerk the slack out of your shorts,
Received a email from Mike,
Stating:
You can send your rifle in for full warranty replacement.
We will not have a diagram anytime soon and taking the gun that far apart will void your warranty.
-Mike
I can see that Dar won't honor their warranty, as I have already replaced a couple of leaking "O" rings and PSI gage, and still the leaks continue.
I am not liking this.............but will with hold any further comments, pending actions, to see the results etc.
Tia,
Don
Wow - am so glad I resisted the urge to buy a DAR. Took my new Sentry 705 .22 out the other day and laid waste to 14 ground squirrels - she's shooting like a laser to 50 yards with Hunter HP's!
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I don't believe this,
Well if that don't jerk the slack out of your shorts,
Received a email from Mike,
Stating:
You can send your rifle in for full warranty replacement.
We will not have a diagram anytime soon and taking the gun that far apart will void your warranty.
-Mike
I can see that Dar won't honor their warranty, as I have already replaced a couple of leaking "O" rings and PSI gage, and still the leaks continue.
I am not liking this.............but will with hold any further comments, pending actions, to see the results etc.
Tia,
Don
Wow - am so glad I resisted the urge to buy a DAR. Took my new Sentry 705 .22 out the other day and laid waste to 14 ground squirrels - she's shooting like a laser to 50 yards with Hunter HP's!
David, I want a 705 too! ;)
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Guys,
I jumped the gun and MUST apologize to Mike, for the comments I posted here, see below. :-[
I DID NOT check the time line of Mikes email, he sent it, before I contacted Joe on the phone. :-[ :-[
THIS is my mistake, Mike was assuring me that my Dar is/will be honored via the warranty process etc.
So I make this public APOLOGY to MIke, at DAR, "I am sorry for the statement I posted."
It was too late to phone Mike and convey this message, but it will happen on Monday.
I also received a email from Joe explaining the situation, which was greatly appreciated by me.
So I'll go stand in the corner for the weekend for my acts.
Thank you, "Mike and Joe".
Don
ps, I am wanting a 22 & 25 cal Dar's now............. ;)
I don't believe this,
Well if that don't jerk the slack out of your shorts,
Received a email from Mike,
Stating:
You can send your rifle in for full warranty replacement.
We will not have a diagram anytime soon and taking the gun that far apart will void your warranty.
-Mike
I can see that Dar won't honor their warranty, as I have already replaced a couple of leaking "O" rings and PSI gage, and still the leaks continue.
I am not liking this.............but will with hold any further comments, pending actions, to see the results etc.
Tia,
Don
-
I don't believe this,
Well if that don't jerk the slack out of your shorts,
Received a email from Mike,
Stating:
You can send your rifle in for full warranty replacement.
We will not have a diagram anytime soon and taking the gun that far apart will void your warranty.
-Mike
I can see that Dar won't honor their warranty, as I have already replaced a couple of leaking "O" rings and PSI gage, and still the leaks continue.
I am not liking this.............but will with hold any further comments, pending actions, to see the results etc.
Tia,
Don
Wow - am so glad I resisted the urge to buy a DAR. Took my new Sentry 705 .22 out the other day and laid waste to 14 ground squirrels - she's shooting like a laser to 50 yards with Hunter HP's!
David you already know how much I like the Xisico Sentry's, I was out with mine today but didn't see anything worth shooting so at the end of the day I picked out a dead 1" branch on a tree at about 35 yards and after seven shots that branch fell 8) I've REALLY been enjoying mine a lot.
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ps, I am wanting a 22 & 25 cal Dar's now............. ;)
Hey Don, I just saw this, I just listed my DAR .22 in the Member Classified this morning! Fortunately, I seem to have gotten one of the good ones, it's still holding air and functions perfectly! Disclaimer: I have not done anything to it other than a little polishing of the trigger, so it's never been opened up for any reason! ;D
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Thanks Paul
I'll head on over and give it a look see................LOL
Tia,
Don
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I think the DAR issues = o rings / poppet - they are starting to address by getting better o rings , the poppet just needs to be shaved a tiny bit down on the sealing surface / seat polish , and it should be good to go , I like these DAR guns a lot better than the Avengers cheap plastic toy gun like construction = junk IMO ....
Joe at Dar told me all of the new guns going out will have the o rings replaced , poppet wise I think if they just make a metal jig up with a small hole for the stem to go threw with very fine sand paper like 1500 -2000 on the other side , and simply turn the sealing edge against the sand paper at a low speed they would be able to increase the sealing surface width just a bit ,and make these poppet's seal better plus polish the seat up with same grit sand paper , this is what I did ,and it sealed right up ,
the small o ring in the reg I could never get sealed up with the o rings in the back up kit the gun came with .... plus the de gassing screw ball bearing messing up leaking -that I could only get sealed with plumbers tape, so I sent it in for repair ,and now Joe has decided to just send my action back to me with a new air tube assembly ... I told him to concentrate on getting us some quality duro 90 o rings ,... I found some HVAC green o rings that worked in the barrel to seal of the probe ,and they are working perfect , my Carl Walther German gun's have these green what appear to be HVAC o rings in them , and are having no issues holding air ....
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Sell that thing, Paul before I I succumb! :o :D ;)
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Sell that thing, Paul before I I succumb! :o :D ;)
LOL! I think Don's taking it, just waiting on him to send me his address so I know where to ship it!
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Sell that thing, Paul before I I succumb! :o :D ;)
LOL! I think Don's taking it, just waiting on him to send me his address so I know where to ship it!
Wait... what? Don? :o
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Paul info sent and paid for,.................I have had very good luck with the last one from you............. ;)
Thanks,
David
Did that surprized you?.............. ;)
Tia
Don
Sell that thing, Paul before I I succumb! :o :D ;)
LOL! I think Don's taking it, just waiting on him to send me his address so I know where to ship it!
Wait... what? Don? :o
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Don, I received the money, but didn't see an address! Can you PM where you'd like me to send it? Thanks!
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Paul
All the info was sent in the remarks section.
I'll send you a PM etc,
Thanks,
Don
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Thanks Don! The UPS Store is closed till Monday due to Easter, so I'll drop it off Monday morning! Thanks and enjoy!
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For those who want to do the SSG be mindful that a oem spring will coil bind when the stock adjuster is sitting flush in the gun. I may experiment with filing the Tnut down or new spring I dont want to clip coils on my stock spring. The Tnut is slightly larger OD than the ID of the hammer recess. I think I may fashion up and 3d print a guide to keep the spring centered on the Tnut and go from there.
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Matt
By any chance do you have the dimensions of the Hammer spring and hammer depth and diameter?
Tia,
Don
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How about some DAR TASTIC - SHOTS ! .25 shooting today top right dime size circle 3 shot 1 ragged hole ;D ;D ;D .....
,and if that was not good enough top left circle 1 full 12 shot mag ! ;D ;D ;D 875 fps NOE 26g mold pellet .... when you get a good one this is what it is capable of at 50 yards ... ;)
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Matt
By any chance do you have the dimensions of the Hammer spring and hammer depth and diameter?
Tia,
Don
I have already shared the hammer spring in my .25 I have not pulled out the hammer its self to measure since mine is torn down still I can take it out and get some measurements.
.25 oem spring is .474 x .058 x 1.683
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Thanks for the info Matt.
Don
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Took my DAR .177 to the farm today to do some pesting, popped a few trash birds, then was going to do some 100 yard shooting, and saw a possum 1/2 way to the 100 yd. mark took aim and dropped it on the spot with a 12.5 gr NSA slug, I feel for those with Leaky DARS :(
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I started a thread for general mods to the DAR gen2 line up so as to keep this thread more on topic, as well as condensing mods into one thread aside from personal endeavors.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185873.msg156131597#msg156131597 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185873.msg156131597#msg156131597)
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Book Marked , Thanks !
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Paul info sent and paid for,.................I have had very good luck with the last one from you............. ;)
Thanks,
David
Did that surprized you?.............. ;)
Tia
Don
Sell that thing, Paul before I I succumb! :o :D ;)
LOL! I think Don's taking it, just waiting on him to send me his address so I know where to ship it!
Wait... what? Don? :o
Just a little! :o
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Guys
Here is some more info on a Gen II, 177 cal (Dec 1st 2020 bought), total of 6 shots fired... ::)
the following is the spec's for the hammer spring, hammer stroke length.
Hammer spring Length = 1.870" long,
.425" O/S diameter,
.333" I/S diameter,
Wire thickness = .042" thick,
11 coils, closed ends
Coil bound @ .560"
.135" between coils,
5-1/2 coils p/inch,
Pound rating measured at 17.5 to 18 lbs, for 3 time average.
Hammer stroke distance of .455", hammer face to poppet stem distance.
HTH's
Don
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Thanks for that info Don, I am going to share that in the mod thread.
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Matt
Go for it............the more info the better, for everyone.
As soon as my 22 cal gets here, I'll add that info to the bank also.
Tia,
Don
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Matt
Go for it............the more info the better, for everyone.
As soon as my 22 cal gets here, I'll add that info to the bank also.
Tia,
Don
Good stuff Don. You'll probably help a lot of people posting these.
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Thanks Tater
All we need is the Gen Set I or II and the caliber............ ;)
Tia,
Don
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Guys
Here is some more info I pulled from the DAR main posts,
(will be shared on the Dar mod post also).
Hammer spring Dimensions,
Gen II = 177 Cal
.425" = O/S dia,
.042" = wire dia,
1.870" = length,
17-18# weight rating
Gen ? = 22 cal
.426" = O/S dia,
.047" = wire dia,
1.870" = length
Gen ? = 25 cal
.475" = O/S dia,
.059" = wire dia,
1.750" = length
Gen? = 25 cal
.474" = O/S dia,
.058" = wire dia,
1.683" = length
Gen ? = 25 cal
.460" = O/S dia,
.058" = wire dia,
1.656" = length
So far, for the 25 cal's the spring dimensions are very close..........
HTH's
Don
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I'll pull spring/a tonight, I have a .25 in the vice already.
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Finally getting consistent FPS in my DAR .22 with balance between poppet spring and striker spring . Averaging 856 FPS with standard deviation of 4.6. CPHP near the butter zone of 25 ft pounds, very pleased.
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Joe sent an email earlier today and they have completed work on my DAR .22. It is shipping UPS today and should have rifle by Friday. New o-rings and new shroud so that should cover leaks and clipping. He said they pressure checked and tested it for clipping.
Rich
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Hope it works well for you this time. If they can get these trouble-free, it can still be a contender with the Avenger.
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I'm optimistic that will be the case. I have been nailing some squirrels on my property...mostly close range stuff 15-25 yards...even nailed one this morning with my 1377...flipped him up in the air...some young squirrels out roaming around. Be fun to get the DAR out for some longer range shots. I had planned to get out with the Avenger .22 but must wait for the DAR now.
Scheduled delivery 4/8/21 according to UPS...I only live 120 miles from AIM Sports.
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I guess I will call DAR tomorrow and check again they said early last week they were going to send me back my gun the next day with new air tube assembly , I have no shipping notice sent , my .25 still works perfect super accurate , but I don't really trust it with the o rings they put in these guns , shave the poppet down a bit to make it seal better with larger contact area , duro 90 o rings ,and this gun will be the king of the 3-400 buck guns .... Avenger is just made way to plastic -cheap quality wise for my taste ...
My new AEA challenger .357 is a flipping beast shooting 94 g at 960fps ! ;D ;D ;D
Today I ordered the AEA .30 Challenger bullpup with 32 inch barrel , Bin tells me they have this gun shooting Nielson slugs 65 g at that same 960 fps + level , he is sending 2 hammer springs one for pellets 44-50 g , and the other is for slugs 65 g plus range ...
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Is that Bin LU of Hitman Firearms in TYNGSBOROUGH, Mass.?
Just wondering.
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DAR arrived UPS at 2:15 pm today and I re-zeroed at 26 yards. I have a reaction target at 35 yards and was hitting the 1" center paddle on every shot. Very happy with the way it is shooting now.
-
Have been following this thread, glad you got it back Rich. All new orings and such you should be good to go for a while now.
-
I am planning out how I want to assemble my DARtact, or is that TactDAR? Any way, I laid it out tonight to look at the distances and shouldered up a mockup, decided on grip location and but stock location. Next, I will turn the tube down to get rid of the threads on the buttstock, turn some Al tube down to friction fit the stock, turn it down to fit the threaded hammer spring cavity, thread inside and out so I can fit a plug inside the tube for the hammer spring.
Then I need to cut and form a single piece of Al that will fit the grip and fit the fire control group cavity on the back end, drill and pin it, drill and thread the grip screw then send it off to get TIG welded to the tube.
The end result should be a sub 5# (without scope) DAR with collapsible stock for hunting that I can throw in the UTV.
Here is the mockup so far.
How tactical! 8) 8) 8)
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Have been following this thread, glad you got it back Rich. All new orings and such you should be good to go for a while now.
Today I'll get it back on the chrony just to verify numbers I got from last December.
Rich
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[/quote]
How tactical! 8) 8) 8)
[/quote]
True that! I really want to cut all the weight I can and get a comfortable grip on it. I also found a folding stock adapter on aliexpress might give me an even shorter version if I want.
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That sounds good Rich,
By any chance did they give you a list of the "O" ring sizes?
I'll be following along as I have a 22 cal now also........... to go along with my 17 cal,
I may even get a 25 cal to complete the set............ 8)
Thanks,
Don
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That sounds good Rich,
By any chance did they give you a list of the "O" ring sizes?
I'll be following along as I have a 22 cal now also........... to go along with my 17 cal,
I may even get a 25 cal to complete the set............ 8)
Thanks,
Don
No info on o-ring sizes and I did not ask. Think they mentioned months ago there would be a schematic with parts list. Do you think they are metric ? I plan to just duplicate the ones that came in the bag and try to upgrade them size for size.
I have two custom rifles that were built/converted back in 2009 that are still going strong that I competed with in FT and Benchrest... same goes for my R9 .20 cal that Paul Watts tuned.
I do not view this DAR as a precision rifle for competition but it should at least hold up for casual shooting/hunting.
Rich
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Rich
I am measuring 2 different sets of "O" rings, 1-177 cal and 1-22 cal, both are Gen II guns,
bought in Nov/Dec of 2020, but there is a difference between the 17 and 22 calibers,
in sizes and amounts etc.
IMHO, I do believe that they are metric, mine has been squished up in a package,
and I have them setting in a cup hot water to soften up and hopefully return to their round form,
so I can get a better/accurate size on them.
I'll post the info when I get it etc................Waiting on my "O" ring package................ ;)
I do believe that these will make a good accurate maximum effort hunting rifles etc.
Only time will tell.
Tia,
Don
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I think they're a great rifle. My reg has been outstanding. I just pulled mine from its box last night after setting idle for a week to run it over the chronograph.
909 907 910. Don't get much better than that.
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Rod
What caliber? Pellets or slugs?
Tia,
Don
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Curious, have any of you measured the depth of the poppet spring retaining nut before unscrewing it. Mine was at .100” deep . When I reassembled I went .200” deep and I think that helped seal my rifle. Found a balance with the striker spring and shooting very consistent and not leaking. Just wondering what the average factory setting is and what you guys are doing.
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Rod
What caliber? Pellets or slugs?
Tia,
Don
Its a 22. Its currently tuned to shoot the crosmans. Reg is set to 105-110 bar with an ssg. It would make a good slug candidate. I opened everything up when i first got it and went through it. With the reg at 140-150 it had no problem pushing 18 jsb up past 960. Shes in the classifieds now, and thought I'd run it over the chronograph just to check the tune was holding where i set it. The rifle still impresses me for the money.
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Curious, have any of you measured the depth of the poppet spring retaining nut before unscrewing it. Mine was at .100” deep . When I reassembled I went .200” deep and I think that helped seal my rifle. Found a balance with the striker spring and shooting very consistent and not leaking. Just wondering what the average factory setting is and what you guys are doing.
If memory serves....i think mine was at 5mm. Which is close to where you're at. You can turn it in too far to where you'll put the spring in a coil bind situation depending on how hard your whacking the valve. I dont think your close to that at .2
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I called Dar a few days ago . they told me again they would send the gun back ,and I was told I would get at least , and email on Friday , and I got nothing on Friday ...
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Dan when I talked with Joe@aimsports he said that he's recently been very busy getting things straightened out with the valve body part that the bleed screw is in and that it might take a while before he's able to ship one to me. In the meantime I'll continue using my tried and true Xisico Sentry's. I know one thing is I have way too many guns these days and have plenty to shoot.
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Curious, have any of you measured the depth of the poppet spring retaining nut before unscrewing it. Mine was at .100” deep . When I reassembled I went .200” deep and I think that helped seal my rifle. Found a balance with the striker spring and shooting very consistent and not leaking. Just wondering what the average factory setting is and what you guys are doing.
If memory serves....i think mine was at 5mm. Which is close to where you're at. You can turn it in too far to where you'll put the spring in a coil bind situation depending on how hard your whacking the valve. I dont think your close to that at .
.
Thanks Rod, good to know. The spring tension at .100” seemed way too weak to me and this is where it was after coming back from Aim sports for warranty repair. My shots are so consistent now it would take air loss for me to make internal adjustments . Next time I am into it I may increase the regulator pressure if anything.
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Incase you guys are still waiting on parts or replacements, I recieved a shipping notification from Joe on Friday for a new air tube I've been waiting on. It looks like he's trying to get caught up with everyone.
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Dan when I talked with Joe@aimsports he said that he's recently been very busy getting things straightened out with the valve body part that the bleed screw is in and that it might take a while before he's able to ship one to me. In the meantime I'll continue using my tried and true Xisico Sentry's. I know one thing is I have way too many guns these days and have plenty to shoot.
Yep I get it , I was told about 2 weeks ago he was going to send the gun out the fallowing day with new air tube assembly ...
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Does anyone KNOW the twist rate in the 177 and 22 cal barrels?
I don't remember this info being posted........... :o
Tia,
Don
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Does anyone KNOW the twist rate in the 177 and 22 cal barrels?
I don't remember this info being posted........... :o
Tia,
Don
Most air guns are 1-16...have not read anything here either....been tinkering with my DAR .22 hammer spring this afternoon...getting lots of chrony time in.. trying to find balance between ES and FPS.. getting there.. will post details later..
Rich
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Does anyone KNOW the twist rate in the 177 and 22 cal barrels?
I don't remember this info being posted........... :o
Tia,
Don
My cleaning patch/cleaning rod test showed 1:16 twist.
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Does anyone KNOW the twist rate in the 177 and 22 cal barrels?
I don't remember this info being posted........... :o
Tia,
Don
My cleaning patch/cleaning rod test showed 1:16 twist.
David that is a very good method...just count rotations in 12" as you pull it out. Good one.
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Dan H
Incoming PM.
Don
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I counted the distance the right rod/patch traveled over 1 complete turn.
1 rotation in 16 inches.
What is the 12" measurement for?
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David
Was this for your 22 cal or 25 cal bbl?
Tia,
Don
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I counted the distance the right rod/patch traveled over 1 complete turn.
1 rotation in 16 inches.
What is the 12" measurement for?
Think I had 1-12 on da brain.....lol
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Yep, easy pesey. Masking tape for witness marks , marker and good rod,jag, patch, measuring tape.
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I counted the distance the right rod/patch traveled over 1 complete turn.
1 rotation in 16 inches.
What is the 12" measurement for?
Think I had 1-12 on da brain.....lol
I wish! Can you say, slug-gun! ;) :D
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David
Was this for your 22 cal or 25 cal bbl?
Tia,
Don
Both. I still have to measure the second .25 though.
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David
Was this for your 22 cal or 25 cal bbl?
Tia,
Don
Don thank you ! ;D ... for letting me know on that tracking number on my gun being shipped , it matches up with the one joe sent me this morning , now we just have to make sure he is sending you the o rings to your address { I really hope so } if they some how turn up here .... send me your address and i will ship them off to you ,but hope fully they sent them to you ,
question = did they send you a complete o ring kit for the gun the duro 90 stuff ? cause I need to get one , and go threw my .25 it hold's air perfect but I do not trust it , but love that gun , it shoots my NOE 26g fantastic .... it's looking like they are going to have that last 5 percent of the gun corrected = o ring's ,and poppet sealing surface fixed which is good news for all of us , and them . ... because it is to good of plat form to let this kind of stuff mess things up ;)
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I counted the distance the right rod/patch traveled over 1 complete turn.
1 rotation in 16 inches.
What is the 12" measurement for?
Think I had 1-12 on da brain.....lol
I wish! Can you say, slug-gun! ;) :D
Exactly.
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Well holy DAR -tastic my .22 came back in today ! ;D , and even better it appears to be holding air ! ;D time to put the pic rail's on then the scope , and see how she performs this time ...
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Congrats, Dan! I hope to see some one-hole targets soon!
I have all three DARs tuned to my liking in the trigger arena, the .22 and a .25 are tuned to a particular pellet. Next up is radical tuning for slugs!
All of my slugs shot like carp yesterday at lower speeds so I cranked the hammer spring down... nope, nothing, returned it, turned the reg out 1/2 turn and got into the 800s but want 950 fps on the 30gr Baracudas so some TP work needs to be done and I am toying with removing the reg all together to see what speed I can reach.
Comments?
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Barracudas shooting like Carp. I understand the use of Carp but it still gave me the giggle I needed this morning. I love a good fish reference.
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Barracudas shooting like Carp. I understand the use of Carp but it still gave me the giggle I needed this morning. I love a good fish reference.
🤣 I just said that for the halibut!
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All my NSAs shot like carp too but I saw huge improvement with higher speeds.
Can I tickle 1000fps?
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More like dead fish, eh ?
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If you remove the reg.... you'll have to find a way to plug the vent hole or she wont hold air.
If your serious about going that route. You could pull the main reg body out of the aluminum spacer and plug the hole in the aluminum with some jb weld. Could always drill it back out later if you dont like the results.
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Dan H
I don't know yet as I have not received them as of this post,
I am really hoping that this 17 Dar will turn into a good heavy weight shooter,
It would curtail a lot of ammo be shot as compared to the 22 cal........... ;)
Since my back yard neighbor decided to move a bunch of their horses directly in line with the only safe shooting lane I have,
there is approximately 350/400 yds distance, between target back stop and horse corrals.
I will have to set up the starling sniping bench in the second floor window of my shop, this will direct the pellets downward
into the dirt/sand etc, this height will also give me a excellent view on the total shooting range,
and any possible problems, free roaming kids/dogs etc that may be out there etc.
I am kinda leery of using the 25 cal, as It has a lot more power than the 22 or 17 cal's etc,
it (25) cal is set up for Yeller Dog patrol, I have 1 left that keeps eyeing the free ranging Cluck Clucks.
Tia,
Don
Dan H
[/quote] question = did they send you a complete o ring kit for the gun the duro 90 stuff ? cause I need to get one , and go threw my .25 it hold's air perfect but I do not trust it , but love that gun , it shoots my NOE 26g fantastic .... it's looking like they are going to have that last 5 percent of the gun corrected = o ring's ,and poppet sealing surface fixed which is good news for all of us , and them . ... because it is to good of plat form to let this kind of stuff mess things up ;) [/quote]
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Don be sure and check your ground for possible richocets as a rock buried can be an issue...I've done many horse ranches (squirrels) and like you mentioned, setting up a shot plan is a good start.
This rancher had 19 Arabian race horses.. I had to shoot squirrels around corrals...somewhat complex.
https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/HorseRanchJune2002.jpg
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Rich
I got kind'a lucky in my place, this area is one blow sand pit, that's the reason that it was up for sale 40+ yrs ago,
a total of 90 acres total.................. ;), of nothing but sand/sage and pucker brush and about 85% Rabbit brush.......
sure make GREAT HONEY, and the wildlife loves the Rabbit brush, and I have over 50+ brush piles for the Quail/Cottontails and Mule deer.
Tia,
Don
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Rich, nice photo. Late spring or early summer morning, looking northwest? Is that knapweed and tulips growing there?
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Congrats, Dan! I hope to see some one-hole targets soon!
I have all three DARs tuned to my liking in the trigger arena, the .22 and a .25 are tuned to a particular pellet. Next up is radical tuning for slugs!
All of my slugs shot like carp yesterday at lower speeds so I cranked the hammer spring down... nope, nothing, returned it, turned the reg out 1/2 turn and got into the 800s but want 950 fps on the 30gr Baracudas so some TP work needs to be done and I am toying with removing the reg all together to see what speed I can reach.
Comments?
David here you go at 50 yards circle closest to the green thumb tack , 3 shots in that ragged hole about the size of the base of those thumb tacks ! ;D ;D ;D
shot 2 mags out cheap crosman=CPHP 920 -925 fps ... pretty crazy that it's this accurate at this speed ... ;D ;)
the other shots were site in shots , and me settling down a bit ...
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Guys
(Shared on the Dar Gen II mod post)
Here is some more info on a Gen II, (Nov/2020 bought), 22 caliber OEM hammer spring,
the following is the spec's for the hammer spring, hammer stroke length etc.
Hammer spring Length = 1.870" long,
.425" O/S diameter,
.333" I/S diameter,
Wire thickness = .044" thick,
11 coils, closed ends
Coil bound @ .580"
.135" between coils,
5-1/2 coils p/inch,
Pound rating measured at 17.5 lbs, for 3 time average.
Hammer stroke distance of .455", hammer face to poppet stem distance.
Distance from COCKED hammer, (inside distance to end of psi tube/tube cap,
with the OEM Black disc flush with the end of the tube = (spring area) = .790" .
HTH's
Don
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Great news!
I like this .25 I have... the lighter 26.8 grain NSA slugs seem to be just the ticket, too! I have about equal results with Hades, and JSB Exacts of similar weight.
I have only shot a little bit but so far my testing is very promising!
I am anxious to see how your .22 does! maybe I'll grab one of those the next time they release a batch :D
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Will check the classified............... ;)
Don
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If you remove the reg.... you'll have to find a way to plug the vent hole or she wont hold air.
If your serious about going that route. You could pull the main reg body out of the aluminum spacer and plug the hole in the aluminum with some jb weld. Could always drill it back out later if you dont like the results.
Rod, I was just going to turn some Al down and add two o-rings to make a thin wall bypass tube to cover the bleed hole. Same specs as the outside reg tube but 0.040" thick.
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If you remove the reg.... you'll have to find a way to plug the vent hole or she wont hold air.
If your serious about going that route. You could pull the main reg body out of the aluminum spacer and plug the hole in the aluminum with some jb weld. Could always drill it back out later if you dont like the results.
Rod, I was just going to turn some Al down and add two o-rings to make a thin wall bypass tube to cover the bleed hole. Same specs as the outside reg tube but 0.040" thick.
If you do that I would be interested in one in the future if it works well.
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Congrats, Dan! I hope to see some one-hole targets soon!
I have all three DARs tuned to my liking in the trigger arena, the .22 and a .25 are tuned to a particular pellet. Next up is radical tuning for slugs!
All of my slugs shot like carp yesterday at lower speeds so I cranked the hammer spring down... nope, nothing, returned it, turned the reg out 1/2 turn and got into the 800s but want 950 fps on the 30gr Baracudas so some TP work needs to be done and I am toying with removing the reg all together to see what speed I can reach.
Comments?
David here you go at 50 yards circle closest to the green thumb tack , 3 shots in that ragged hole about the size of the base of those thumb tacks ! ;D ;D ;D
shot 2 mags out cheap crosman=CPHP 920 -925 fps ... pretty crazy that it's this accurate at this speed ... ;D ;)
the other shots were site in shots , and me settling down a bit ...
There's some nice shootin, Dan!!
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If you remove the reg.... you'll have to find a way to plug the vent hole or she wont hold air.
If your serious about going that route. You could pull the main reg body out of the aluminum spacer and plug the hole in the aluminum with some jb weld. Could always drill it back out later if you dont like the results.
Rod, I was just going to turn some Al down and add two o-rings to make a thin wall bypass tube to cover the bleed hole. Same specs as the outside reg tube but 0.040" thick.
If you do that I would be interested in one in the future if it works well.
OK, Ill just turn a longer piece and separate it after turning the o-ring grooves.
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Great news!
I like this .25 I have... the lighter 26.8 grain NSA slugs seem to be just the ticket, too! I have about equal results with Hades, and JSB Exacts of similar weight.
I have only shot a little bit but so far my testing is very promising!
I am anxious to see how your .22 does! maybe I'll grab one of those the next time they release a batch :D
None of the NSA's shot well for me. The 29's shot the best. What diameter are yours? Mine are all .250"
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Rich, nice photo. Late spring or early summer morning, looking northwest? Is that knapweed and tulips growing there?
Early summer morning looking northwest...I think you are right about knapweed in fore ground but regular tall grass beyond far corrals.. I had to watch close for rattlesnakes as they go into ground squirrel burrows for a meal.
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[/quote]
None of the NSA's shot well for me. The 29's shot the best. What diameter are yours? Mine are all .250"
[/quote]
the .249 26.8s at an average of 833 fps
250-HS-HP-DB-26.8-325
I now have three boxes to get me through ...oh...June-ish
There's about 5 inches of fresh snow this morning or I'd be out there shooting right now... :D
They're saying rain and warm weekend temps will take the snow away so by NEXT Friday, the plan is to be doing REAL testing
I'll post pictures as I can.
I get my second vaccine shot next Sunday (everyone tells me to take Monday off due to how they've felt)... so good weather on Friday and Saturday will be the wish.
IF things work out, I'll post pictures
_____________________
[/quote]
Will check the classified............... ;)
Don
[/quote]
And Don...thanks! 8)
I want to see how yours does before grabbing his...ALTHOUGH Rod did a nice looking job on his. and his Mods sound great...probably someone else will jump on his offering before the next two or three weeks are up, but if not...I'll contact him. I believe it's a good deal, for what he's done with it.
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Mine started getting erratic and was throwing some shots. De gassed and took down the air tube yesterday. I was wrong about the depth I set the poppet spring retaining nut , it was .300” deep. I lapped my poppet and set the nut .200 which is where it was after coming back from factory repair(checked my notes). Backed off the striker spring a good bit after shooting a few wild shots, trying to balance striker and poppet spring. Checked the baffles for signs of clipping and found none. Upon filling it tried to leak out the poppet a few taps cured that. It was way to windy to shoot for groups outside yesterday afternoon so I shot 30’ in my garage off a folding card table and shot some very nice groups albeit short range. The rifle is behaving very well , I’ll try to chronograph it today but I am not chasing speed with this one, good groups and somewhere between 20-25 ft .lbs is sufficient.
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Shot over chrony today. Played with striker spring tension and ended up with a very consistent average of 845 FPS with CPHP and Crosman Domes both 14.3 gr. This puts right it right in the middle of where I wanted, about 22.5 FT .lbs. Shooting tight groups at 20 yards with no outliers. Back in January I cut the striker spring one coil, puts it 1.700 long and it now sits at .100” deep on the striker retaining nut. Unless something weird happens once again calling it tuned.
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Shot over chrony today. Played with striker spring tension and ended up with a very consistent average of 845 FPS with CPHP and Crosman Domes both 14.3 gr. This puts right it right in the middle of where I wanted, about 22.5 FT .lbs. Shooting tight groups at 20 yards with no outliers. Back in January I cut the striker spring one coil, puts it 1.700 long and it now sits at .100” deep on the striker retaining nut. Unless something weird happens once again calling it tuned.
I like it :D
sounds like you have it set!
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Have to let us know the shot count when you get around to it.
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Between yesterday and today ,maybe fifty shots from 20 MPA to 10 MPA.Shot yesterday using loading tray while testing so not a great count. My first five shots today were at the same setting from yesterday ,they were 735 FPS. Should get minimum of forty good shots around 850 FPS, I like to leave 10 MPA in the tube.
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Today I planned to shoot my Pedersoli long range rolling block rifle 45-70 with a new load but woke up at 0100 with leg cramps and stayed up and stayed at home. I am a Millwright/Machinist and am getting too old for that feces. Charged my DAR to 20 MPA , shot forty shots with Crosman 14.3 Domes, FPS 798.7 STD 3.2 to 15 MPA . I ran out of CPHP 14.3 shooting other rifles last week. I am pretty pleased with the average and shot count with the domes.
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I'm getting very frustrated with the weather, nothing under 10mph for winds and in the upper 30's for temps, all shooting is inside and I am just plain tired of it... (Put the whine down, Dave!) ::) ;)
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I was out in the woods this morning David and it was in the mid 30's here too, tomorrow is supposed to be much warmer, hopefully my AEA 357 Challenger will be here early enough so I can get out with that. I've got a tin of pellets that I cast up for it ready to go 8)
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I'm getting very frustrated with the weather, nothing under 10mph for winds and in the upper 30's for temps, all shooting is inside and I am just plain tired of it... (Put the whine down, Dave!) ::) ;)
You know it will be perfect as soon as you return to work, or you HAVE to go somewhere with the wife or kids.
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I was out in the woods this morning David and it was in the mid 30's here too, tomorrow is supposed to be much warmer, hopefully my AEA 357 Challenger will be here early enough so I can get out with that. I've got a tin of pellets that I cast up for it ready to go 8)
I'm limited to temps with bare hands, under 50F I have to glove up and I cant operate the DAR with gloves. :o :(
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I'm getting very frustrated with the weather, nothing under 10mph for winds and in the upper 30's for temps, all shooting is inside and I am just plain tired of it... (Put the whine down, Dave!) ::) ;)
You know it will be perfect as soon as you return to work, or you HAVE to go somewhere with the wife or kids.
Good thing I get home at 5! Couple hours of huntin every night would be great! 8)
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I was out in the woods this morning David and it was in the mid 30's here too, tomorrow is supposed to be much warmer, hopefully my AEA 357 Challenger will be here early enough so I can get out with that. I've got a tin of pellets that I cast up for it ready to go 8)
Can we say red squirrel burger?
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My .22 Dar is still holding air ! ;D ;D ;D ;D and it shoots lights out hole threw a hole perfect at 50 yards with cphp cheap stuff ! at over 900fps PERFECT !
and that is a good thing since I only have about 8000 or so of those pellets to shoot up ! LOL ! ;)
its kinda nice when the air gun gods treat you right , instead of leaking all over you ! ::)
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DAN! it was only a matter of time and elbow grease, that you got it working ... it's been a tough road, but I believe in these rifles.
I think that if they get the supply chain steady and the teeny bit extra that they're trying hard to fix quality-wise, this will be the rifle to beat for the $300 range setup
I like my Avenger and my Coyote but this DAR is definitely my favorite budget .25
If only it had a vertical arm on the cocking lever like the Avenger....
There's always SOMETHING we have to 'fix', isn't there? 80% of the for...for me. :P
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Somebody could make a stem with a slot in it to fit over the side lever, then attach it with set screws.
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I an kinda getting use to the side lever, might be mine has less spring being .177 ???
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Now that I have two side lever guns I really do love them more than bolts.
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DAN! it was only a matter of time and elbow grease, that you got it working ... it's been a tough road, but I believe in these rifles.
I think that if they get the supply chain steady and the teeny bit extra that they're trying hard to fix quality-wise, this will be the rifle to beat for the $300 range setup
I like my Avenger and my Coyote but this DAR is definitely my favorite budget .25
If only it had a vertical arm on the cocking lever like the Avenger....
There's always SOMETHING we have to 'fix', isn't there? 80% of the for...for me. :P
yep ! the DAR IS the Best in the 300 buck range when working good , I had 2 Avengers that both failed with multiple issues , I got a refund on both of them ,and bought the DAR gun's ... The quality of materials is a lot better in the DAR gun's ...
Now I am testing /shooting the AEA Challenger guns .357 ,and .30 bullpup with 32inch barrel ,and both are power house gun's shooting slugs over 1000 fps brutal out of the box power ... ;D hammer springs are stiff , a bit hard to pull back , and trigger's are on the heavy side but short pull and predictable once you get used to them ...
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The DAR is a fantastic gun when you get the leaks fixed if you have said issue. I shoot mine out past 100y when I can hope to do NUHY with it one day.
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Now that I have two side lever guns I really do love them more than bolts.
The side lever just has more leverage than the bolt's , and that usually does making it more smooth , and easy ... the best feeling one I have is the under lever hatsan vectis LOL ! it's kinda funny ... ;D.... but that is the fastest best repeating action I own hand position is better for fallow up repeat shots ...
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At one time I was eyeballing a vectis.
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Now that I have two side lever guns I really do love them more than bolts.
The side lever just has more leverage than the bolt's , and that usually does making it more smooth , and easy ... the best feeling one I have is the under lever hatsan vectis LOL ! it's kinda funny ... ;D.... but that is the fastest best repeating action I own hand position is better for fallow up repeat shots ...
X2 on the underlever action on the Vectis , have one in .25, see no need for semi or full auto pellet/ xlug gun. I can accuratly spry enough lead to do the deed with the Big V, wow I just named another of my airguns :o
One issue I have is I still keep looking down the barrel to see how much air is in a Hatsan then go OH they moved it to a safer location 8)
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They look super awesome for sure. The website is 150% lacking. Way too basic. Doesn’t even say where they are located. I believe the guns are manufactured in China? Ugh...I already have one China gun. How’s the support on these?? Anyone have any experience with them?
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I thoroughly enjoy my DAR .25.... YMMV
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They look super awesome for sure. The website is 150% lacking. Way too basic. Doesn’t even say where they are located. I believe the guns are manufactured in China? Ugh...I already have one China gun. How’s the support on these?? Anyone have any experience with them?
Joe ,and the guy's at DAR /Aimsports are moving their game up on parts ,and working on the gun's , they have had issues with bad o rings so now every gun that goes out has been gone threw with new o rings ,and increase in poppet seal area ...
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Today I planned to shoot my Pedersoli long range rolling block rifle 45-70 with a new load but woke up at 0100 with leg cramps and stayed up and stayed at home. I am a Millwright/Machinist and am getting too old for that feces. Charged my DAR to 20 MPA , shot forty shots with Crosman 14.3 Domes, FPS 798.7 STD 3.2 to 15 MPA . I ran out of CPHP 14.3 shooting other rifles last week. I am pretty pleased with the average and shot count with the domes.
Today I repeated last weekends 40 shots using 5 MPA at around 800 FPS with Crosman domes. . Charged tank , shot 40 shots to 15 MPA. Last twenty shots on Air Rifle chicken silhouettes with no misses at twenty yards. I AM TICKLED.
I bought a Caldwell knockoff of a Harris Bi-pod that has the cant adjustment and it sure is nice , it is now living on the DAR.
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Somebody could make a stem with a slot in it to fit over the side lever, then attach it with set screws.
kind of like the Thompson Center Contender Hammer spur!!
yes.! I ain't no machinist but ... yes! I bet that someone could ! ( just not me)
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Are these guns with all the problems Gen 1 or both?
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Are these guns with all the problems Gen 1 or both?
All three of mine are Gen ll.
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Mine is the Gen II.
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Mine is the Gen II.
Ditto
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Wow. I was hoping they would get bugs out prior to reissue. Guess they won't be the gun of the year. Glad I read this before I jumped. GTA is helping to save many from the disappointment you have endured.
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Are there any $300 PCP guns available that are totally bug free?
Most of the issues I'm reading about with these guns are leaks that can be fixed.... leaks that would eventually need attention with use anyways.
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I paid $179 for a great shooting gauntlet. No leaks. It did cock hard though. The regulator held good although set@1000psi. To buy a new gun that isn't operable from numerous leaks would chap my - you know what.
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I paid $179 for a great shooting gauntlet. No leaks. It did cock hard though. The regulator held good although set@1000psi. To buy a new gun that isn't operable from numerous leaks would chap my - you know what.
Of all the PCP's I've bought new since 2007 the DAR was the first leaker out of the box...and,, it was a GEN II. Doing good now after warranty service...I have a Evantix DUK Hunting Master AR6 that dates back to 1990's that I had resealed 5 years ago but it never had leaked...not to mention 6 other PCP's going on 10 years now. No more bubble gum O=Rings...
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I've paid a lot more for Guns that couldn't hit the side of a barn if I stood 10 feet away and threw the gun at it!
I'd much rather deal with a leak then POI issues from many different causes.
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The phone number listed on their website doesn’t seem to work. Says it all for me. Glad you guys like yours. Will spend the extra dough on piece of mind for a marauder 25.
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The phone number listed on their website doesn’t seem to work. Says it all for me. Glad you guys like yours. Will spend the extra dough on piece of mind for a marauder 25.
Sorry to hear that your not interested in the DAR's, we are experiencing 25mph crosswinds right now and with JSB Exact Kings, 25.39gr, I piled two of them on top of each other at 50 yards then took to defending the bird feeder against HOSPS.
2 dot hold over from the X I drew would have been a bullseye! You dont know what you are missing!!
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The phone number listed on their website doesn’t seem to work. Says it all for me. Glad you guys like yours. Will spend the extra dough on piece of mind for a marauder 25.
There is another phone number that I am aware of that works.
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I paid $179 for a great shooting gauntlet. No leaks. It did cock hard though. The regulator held good although set@1000psi. To buy a new gun that isn't operable from numerous leaks would chap my - you know what.
I will post this Just so you, and anyone who is concerned about the DAR 2 guns knows this information .... DAR had a problem with o rings they are now going threw every gun replacing with the new correct long lasting o rings ... 2nd they are enlarging a bit the contact area on poppets so they seal good now .... so now you have a rock solid champion in the 300 buck price range nothing compares to it for build quality in that price range ... some things to remember are to just barely crack the air release when degassing the gun so the little ball bearing stays in place correctly , and don't set the gun off with the probe pulled back or you will be looking for the o ring that goes in the barrel to seal off the probe ;D ;D ;D ....
so just buy one already , and know you bought the best for the 300 buck range at this point with a real decent wood stock that makes the Avenger / Gauntlet look , and feel silly ! ::)
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so just buy one already , and know you bought the best for the 300 buck range at this point with a real decent wood stock that makes the Avenger / Gauntlet look , and feel silly ! ::)
Where are you "buying" these? I've been checking the DAR website since about January and all 3 calibers have been "OOS".
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They look super awesome for sure. The website is 150% lacking. Way too basic. Doesn’t even say where they are located. I believe the guns are manufactured in China? Ugh...I already have one China gun. How’s the support on these?? Anyone have any experience with them?
I went to their site and all calibers say they are "out of stock."
The site is pretty basic but functional.
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Hopefully they will be ready to go "live" soon with rifles that have the updates.
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They look super awesome for sure. The website is 150% lacking. Way too basic. Doesn’t even say where they are located. I believe the guns are manufactured in China? Ugh...I already have one China gun. How’s the support on these?? Anyone have any experience with them?
I went to their site and all calibers say they are "out of stock."
The site is pretty basic but functional.
I guess but I just question the support from a company that doesn’t put a little more into their front. I mean there is no address of where they are even located nor a functioning phone number on the site. Just a big red flag to me. Honestly it really stinks as for 300 bones the guns look awesome. I don’t know I just went out on a limb with the QB chief as I was impatient and don’t want to do it again. I can hardly wait if something internally fails on that beeman. Probably be a 180 dollar paper weight. Oh well for 180 if I can get a year out of it I feel it was worth it.
I say all this and will probably end up with a DAR 25 if they ever become available..lol
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Just one click into the site under Contact Us, I added a second phone number for you.
I'm not understanding the negativity, isn't life hard enough without the constant griping? Lets just enjoy the joy the DAR brings, shall we?
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883
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David
So far, I have not felt the joy from my Dar's,
I have had my 177 cal since Dec 1st 2020, with a total of 6 shots thru it, it won't hold air etc.
I have contacted Dar several times, with only a couple of answers/reply's back.
I was assured that they (Dar) would send me the correct "O" rings to repair my 17 cal Dar,
4 weeks ago and I am still waiting......
And to rub salt into the wounds, I bought a 2nd Dar, 22 cal and have shot over a tin of ammo thru it,
I really starting to enjoy it for the last month, very accurate/quite with OEM Crosman ammo, at 40+ yds,
and started thinking of ways to put a good SSG into it and improve it for a hunting air rifle etc.
Until this AM at sun up, had a magpie sitting on top of the Cluck cluck house, eyeing the way to get in,
grabbed the 22 Dar and lined up for the shot, stroked the trigger and got a strangled mouse phartt noise from it, WTH,
checked and found I had NO air, I know it had over 2000psi when I stored it.........Here I go again.......... ::)
I am willing and able to do the work to change out the OEM Bubble gum "O" rings,
just need the correct sizes and where they go, I have 2 OEM SETs of 177/22 cal "O" rings,
they are NOT the same size for both calibers.......
I have over 20+ air guns rifle/pistols and have replaced/changed the "O" rings on ALL of them,
BUT, I had a parts breakdown on every AG and could order GOOD "O" rings from the O ring store,
no such luck with the Dar's, so far.
So, at this time, Yes I am a being a little negative and griping, but I think, I have earned that right,
as I have NOT been enjoying my Dar's, so far.
YMMV,
Don
Just one click into the site under Contact Us, I added a second phone number for you.
I'm not understanding the negativity, isn't life hard enough without the constant griping?
Lets just enjoy the joy the DAR brings, shall we?
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883
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David
So far, I have not felt the joy from my Dar's,
I have had my 177 cal since Dec 1st 2020, with a total of 6 shots thru it, it won't hold air etc.
I have contacted Dar several times, with only a couple of answers/reply's back.
I was assured that they (Dar) would send me the correct "O" rings to repair my 17 cal Dar,
4 weeks ago and I am still waiting......
And to rub salt into the wounds, I bought a 2nd Dar, 22 cal and have shot over a tin of ammo thru it,
I really starting to enjoy it for the last month, very accurate/quite with OEM Crosman ammo, at 40+ yds,
and started thinking of ways to put a good SSG into it and improve it for a hunting air rifle etc.
Until this AM at sun up, had a magpie sitting on top of the Cluck cluck house, eyeing the way to get in,
grabbed the 22 Dar and lined up for the shot, stroked the trigger and got a strangled mouse phartt noise from it, WTH,
checked and found I had NO air, I know it had over 2000psi when I stored it.........Here I go again.......... ::)
I am willing and able to do the work to change out the OEM Bubble gum "O" rings,
just need the correct sizes and where they go, I have 2 OEM SETs of 177/22 cal "O" rings,
they are NOT the same size for both calibers.......
I have over 20+ air guns rifle/pistols and have replaced/changed the "O" rings on ALL of them,
BUT, I had a parts breakdown on every AG and could order GOOD "O" rings from the O ring store,
no such luck with the Dar's, so far.
So, at this time, Yes I am a being a little negative and griping, but I think, I have earned that right,
as I have NOT been enjoying my Dar's, so far.
YMMV,
Don
Just one click into the site under Contact Us, I added a second phone number for you.
I'm not understanding the negativity, isn't life hard enough without the constant griping?
Lets just enjoy the joy the DAR brings, shall we?
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883
Thank you. Kind of what I would have guessed. Anyway I’m out you guys enjoy
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David
So far, I have not felt the joy from my Dar's,
I have had my 177 cal since Dec 1st 2020, with a total of 6 shots thru it, it won't hold air etc.
I have contacted Dar several times, with only a couple of answers/reply's back.
I was assured that they (Dar) would send me the correct "O" rings to repair my 17 cal Dar,
4 weeks ago and I am still waiting......
And to rub salt into the wounds, I bought a 2nd Dar, 22 cal and have shot over a tin of ammo thru it,
I really starting to enjoy it for the last month, very accurate/quite with OEM Crosman ammo, at 40+ yds,
and started thinking of ways to put a good SSG into it and improve it for a hunting air rifle etc.
Until this AM at sun up, had a magpie sitting on top of the Cluck cluck house, eyeing the way to get in,
grabbed the 22 Dar and lined up for the shot, stroked the trigger and got a strangled mouse phartt noise from it, WTH,
checked and found I had NO air, I know it had over 2000psi when I stored it.........Here I go again.......... ::)
I am willing and able to do the work to change out the OEM Bubble gum "O" rings,
just need the correct sizes and where they go, I have 2 OEM SETs of 177/22 cal "O" rings,
they are NOT the same size for both calibers.......
I have over 20+ air guns rifle/pistols and have replaced/changed the "O" rings on ALL of them,
BUT, I had a parts breakdown on every AG and could order GOOD "O" rings from the O ring store,
no such luck with the Dar's, so far.
So, at this time, Yes I am a being a little negative and griping, but I think, I have earned that right,
as I have NOT been enjoying my Dar's, so far.
YMMV,
Don
Just one click into the site under Contact Us, I added a second phone number for you.
I'm not understanding the negativity, isn't life hard enough without the constant griping?
Lets just enjoy the joy the DAR brings, shall we?
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883
Don I've also been waiting quite some time now for a new valve assembly from them, must be they're very busy. I'm in no real big hurry for it anyway and even told them that on the phone when I talked to them. I've really been getting into the AEA .357 that I've got now, that gun is a beast and I WILL be hunting deer with it this year. I have two more slug molds coming for that gun and the last one I ordered is probably the one I'll be using for deer.
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Some people are pretty lucky they never got a M-Rod Gen 1 in .22
Worst case of bad barrels ever! And talk about having to dump money into a pit just for a little bit of power!
Yeah. That turned me off so bad I'll never have an M-rod again!
I'd not take one for free.
Is DAR perfect? No. But I don't recall the option to return my M-Rod as DAR offered.
I also hunted with the Owner of the Company and had a great time talking with him about the Gun.
Ron took the time, on his own, to get things better.
Some issues came up on the Chinese side that were not approved, and that seems to still be an issue.
Look at the building your sitting in and wonder about suppliers using sub-standard stuff to build it!
That's an every day thing! Cut costs and deal with it when it bites us in the arse!
I know the hours and dedication Ron put into the development of the Gen 2.
I shot many versions of that Gun from California, Mississippi, to Ohio.
Before any of you could even get the Gen 2.
So don't buy one. I don't care. I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!
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I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!
Do tell!🙂
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...So don't buy one. I don't care. I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!...
I cant wait for the Gen lll! I'll be happy to get in on the ground floor and have another set of incredible guns!
Trucker, sorry but you have no idea what quality there is in these remarkable rifles, a few O-rings, a poppet? I'm sorry to hear you throw in the towel.
For me, I had half a day making head shots on the local 13 stripe gopher population. I frankly would not trade my .22 for a Daystate right now.
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...So don't buy one. I don't care. I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!...
I cant wait for the Gen lll! I'll be happy to get in on the ground floor and have another set of incredible guns!
Trucker, sorry but you have no idea what quality there is in these remarkable rifles, a few O-rings, a poppet? I'm sorry to hear you throw in the towel.
For me, I had half a day making head shots on the local 13 stripe gopher population. I frankly would not trade my .22 for a Daystate right now.
A ()&(^)(&()-Mazing!
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Man they need to get their act together and get the good o rings in kit's to send to us , not much excuse not to have this figured out , I was told 3 weeks ago they would have them available , they need to put out a list of o rings for each caliber on their site , so we can order them our self's , if they are going to keep dropping the ball like they have ... the guns were out last fall , I just don't get it , I think I will call Joe on Monday ,and see what he has to say ....
My thought on the next gen DAR gun is , don't make it till you get your act together on the 2nd gen ,and do business the right way , or there might not be to many people interested in the 3rd due to poor bizz track record .... ::)
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Thanks Wayne,
Yes, I am sure they are back loaded and very busy etc.
I guess I am frustrated, have been shooting the 22 cal Dar I got from Paul,
and really was very happy with the results I was experiencing with it,
very accurate with OEM Crosman HP ammo, inside minute of Hosp at 40+ yds,
real quite compared to some others I own.
I would like the same experience with the 17 cal as I have a Starling/Hosp thinning shoot coming up real soon,
inside a Alum building and want to use lite weight flat nosed pellets to prevent any holes etc.
I'll gladly pay the cost of the "O" rings, not asking for a handout, OR a parts diagram with the "O" ring info where they go etc.
So far, the Dar's are the only air guns that don't supply a parts diagram, with that info provided,
95% of their problems with the leaking issues would be addressed and provide a very positive image for Dar.
Tia,
Don
Don I've also been waiting quite some time now for a new valve assembly from them, must be they're very busy. I'm in no real big hurry for it anyway and even told them that on the phone when I talked to them. I've really been getting into the AEA .357 that I've got now, that gun is a beast and I WILL be hunting deer with it this year. I have two more slug molds coming for that gun and the last one I ordered is probably the one I'll be using for deer.
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Overcast and dead-calm here today! 60F for the high, 58F right now, just about perfect weather. I'm going to set the cameras on the 100y and 200y steel backer plates after church and spray paint a dot to see where I am at both distances. JSB's will go to 200y but the spiral may be too big to plant them consistently.
I hand cast .25 pellets and really want to see if they will came together at longer distances, so far, they are shot-gunning at 20y.
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I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!
Do tell!🙂
I'm not at liberty to discuss it.
;D
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I'm waiting for the project DAR has in the works anyway!
Do tell!🙂
I'm not at liberty to discuss it.
;D
I'm gonna make a guess based on the hints I've gotten so far. Bullpup.
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Hehe I know I know.
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What I don't know is IF the plan is still in the works.
And since I haven't heard anymore scuttle butt?
I'll NOT post what I did know at one time.
That's how things get all messed up and expectations exceed delivered returns.
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No problem guys, I was expecting something like an EVP, or a list of orings or something like that.
Hey. How do those DAR's handle? Is it heavier than the M-Rod or Syn-Rod?
Standard Syn-Rods are fine balance wise to me, but the Sam-Rods and FT-Rods seem muzzle heavy to me.
Hunter
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Ill dig my scale out and get a weight for you. I dont consider it light weight at all but not hard to field carry for a few hours either.
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If I recall they are about +- 7lbs.
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I find my .177 Dar gen2 to be close to a rugger 1022 for in the field hunting for weight and handling, it has not let me down, it's one of my Medium High power Air powered HMR .17's
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Back Roads
What is the heaviest weight pellets/slugs you have shot from you 17 Dar?
Any fps swag's for them................ ;)
Thanks,
Don
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Was plug and play with NSA 12.5 gr. slugs right around 800 FPS IIR, just been shooting and enjoying :)
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Just weighed my DAR .22 with scope mounted at 7.14 LBS....used an accurate fish scale so this was hanging weight...scope was CenterPoint Spectrum 4x12 FFP.
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Just weighed my DAR .22 with scope mounted at 7.14 LBS....used an accurate fish scale so this was hanging weight...scope was CenterPoint Spectrum 4x12 FFP.
My fish scales ⚖ add two pounds. I had to pay extra for that feature.
L. O. L.
Hunter
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Just weighed my DAR .22 with scope mounted at 7.14 LBS....used an accurate fish scale so this was hanging weight...scope was CenterPoint Spectrum 4x12 FFP.
My fish scales ⚖ add two pounds. I had to pay extra for that feature.
L. O. L.
Hunter
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!
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A moment of Weakness was averted because they're out of stock.
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I'm assuming they are trying to complete all new rifles they have with modifications .
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Just weighed my DAR .22 with scope mounted at 7.14 LBS....used an accurate fish scale so this was hanging weight...scope was CenterPoint Spectrum 4x12 FFP.
My fish scales ⚖ add two pounds. I had to pay extra for that feature.
L. O. L.
Hunter
Yes ,and don't forget about the fish measuring stick that starts off at 2-inches LOL ! ;D ;D ;D
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Yes ,and don't forget about the fish measuring stick that starts off at 2-inches LOL ! ;D ;D ;D
I need to get one of those!
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FWIW My DAR Gen 2 .22 is still holding air and after settling in from tuning it is very consistent and a joy to shoot.
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FWIW My DAR Gen 2 .22 is still holding air and after settling in from tuning it is very consistent and a joy to shoot.
Mine too! Congrats on the gun, I do enjoy shooting them! ;D
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Dar .22 @ 30 yards....5 shots .25" CTC.
https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/IMG0695.jpg (https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/IMG0695.jpg)
Used my Caldwell Fire Control...
https://www.caldwellshooting.com/rests/shooting-rests/fire-control-front-rest/746884.html (https://www.caldwellshooting.com/rests/shooting-rests/fire-control-front-rest/746884.html)
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Does anyone know what’s going on with DAR ? I sent my 2nd generation air rifle to Joe 3 months ago because it never would hold air.
I emailed Joe over 2 weeks ago to see what the status was on my gun, and I never got a reply back from him. I tried to give him a call today and their phone just beeps like it’s disconnected or something. ☹️
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Does anyone know what’s going on with DAR ? I sent my 2nd generation air rifle to Joe 3 months ago because it never would hold air.
I emailed Joe over 2 weeks ago to see what the status was on my gun, and I never got a reply back from him. I tried to give him a call today and their phone just beeps like it’s disconnected or something. ☹️
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883
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Does anyone know what’s going on with DAR ? I sent my 2nd generation air rifle to Joe 3 months ago because it never would hold air.
I emailed Joe over 2 weeks ago to see what the status was on my gun, and I never got a reply back from him. I tried to give him a call today and their phone just beeps like it’s disconnected or something. ☹️
Super interesting rifle but yeah no working phone and no response to emails. Exactly my experience. Bought an avenger instead. Think I will send “Joe” an email thanking him for making the decision so easy.
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Thank you for the contact info Firewalker. I’ll try to contact them today. The bummer part of it is that I never even got to shoot it and I bought it for a Christmas present for myself.
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I agree, its a huge bummer, I have the .22 and 2-.25's and wanted to get the .177 but nothing is available right now. I got a gauntlet instead and if anything, it's teaching me patience.
The DAR's work great, I did all the tuning and the .22 is my day to day work horse.
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I agree, its a huge bummer, I have the .22 and 2-.25's and wanted to get the .177 but nothing is available right now. I got a gauntlet instead and if anything, it's teaching me patience.
The DAR's work great, I did all the tuning and the .22 is my day to day work horse.
Sent an email asking when they think the .22 may be available. No answer back. I haven't sent another because i just don't bother after that. This is the way i figure things . If i can answer emails so can everyone else.
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Poor DAR. I hope they can recover from this. DAR should consider selling the leaking one for $100...no warranty at this point.
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A couple of weeks ago I got a call from Joe and he indicated they had been working through their inventory of rifles, doing a complete O-ring replacement. I got the impression they had pulled them from the site until that was completed because he said they would go back up when the work was completed, and I see they are listed again.
My .22 continues to be my go-to rifle for pests anywhere from chipmunks up to raccoons. Last weekend I picked it up and drilled a couple of chipmunks at 50 and 57 yards at the neighborhood permission. I reach for it because it delivers a JSB on point from the very first shot, even if it has been sitting idle for days.
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Glad they are back up for sale and wish them nothing but success. Hopefully parts will be on the menu at some point if needed. Watching and in the future I may add another and recommend them to friends wanting to get into PCP.
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Bummer there were issues with so many of their guns, mine has been stellar since day 1 and has only had a diet od NSA 12.5 gr. slugs.
Good to see they are making progression refurbing their inventory, a .22 or .25 may be my next.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0794/5877/products/12.5grain178_470x.jpg?v=1598561328)
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What kind of accuracy and power are you getting with them? Thinking of getting a dar in .177 for shooting slugs.
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Shooting them with stock settings, 800 FPS IIR, easy MOA 100 yards, farthest I have done any target work with it to date.
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What kind of accuracy and power are you getting with them? Thinking of getting a dar in .177 for shooting slugs.
That's my next purchase, a DAR in .177.
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Ordered a DAR .177 last night. Received call today and paid for it. Spoke to Joe who I have communicated with several times. He said he went thru all rifles and replaced o rings and resealed poppets. Said everything should be fine with them. They tested them before putting back in stock. Also spoke to him about the other 3 I have and he was nice enough to send me an o ring kit to reseal them. Joe is a great guy to deal with.
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Post warranty for my DAR .22 has been great. What an improvement. Joe has done a good job with these rifles.
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Great to hear. Good customer support keeps customers and creates sales.
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Ordered a DAR .177 last night. Received call today and paid for it. Spoke to Joe who I have communicated with several times. He said he went thru all rifles and replaced o rings and resealed poppets. Said everything should be fine with them. They tested them before putting back in stock. Also spoke to him about the other 3 I have and he was nice enough to send me an o ring kit to reseal them. Joe is a great guy to deal with.
I'll be posting my Gauntlet after tuning it up and will join you with a .177 DAR.
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I swapped my DAR .25 for a .25 Evanix Air Speed. I really did like the DAR but so far, I have no regrets.
The AS had a few issues but nothing I couldn't overcome.
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I shot my .25 DAR yesterday ;D ;D ;D ;D .... for just 300 bucks what more could you ask for ? glad to hear Joe has the guns fixed ,and up for sale again I will have to call him and get a set of o rings for each gun if possible ...
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I am sorely tempted to get the .177, it's inexpensive so my wife doesn't beat me, and it's a nice-looking gun. If the website had a credit card processing page, I'd have bought it a couple of nights ago.
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Guys,
I am very new to PCP's. Bought a DAR .22 a few weeks ago and I am very pleased with it except for the trigger...it is not good...lots of creep.
Anyway, read the entire thread, At times I regretted buying this gun but it looks like the company is addressing issues so keeping my fingers crossed.
Just to share some info. I have fired 41 5 shot groups at 25 yards and am averaging under .5" with the cheapo Crosman doomed 14.3's. I am OK with that. For a lark, I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards with JSB 15.89's and got .40". I have been unable to shoot since then so cannot verify if it was a fluke. BTW, I was topping up the gun after every 20 shots but I went 40 shots one time without affecting 25 yard accuracy. I may just air up after 30 shots to be safe.
My needs are 1" at 50 yards so I think I should be fine. So for $300, I am happy as long as I do not get the leaks many of you have struggled with.
Now to my question. I would like to improve the trigger. I saw that one option is to grease it and that is what I will try first. But it is so bad I doubt it will get me where I want to be.
If I want to polish up the trigger, do I need to degas the gun? After reading about the issues with doing that, I am not going there. Sorry if it is a stupid question but I am ignorant about PCP's and fooling with a 2-300o psi "bomb" has me jittery.
TIA for any advice.
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No need to depressurize before removing the trigger components. Nothing associated with them is seeing any high pressure.
Everything pressurized is part of the air tube assembly. The air tube is a modular assembly that also houses the valve. If you want, you can completely remove it and set it aside while you do your work.
Personally I wouldn’t (I didn’t) but feel free to do so if it aids your confidence.
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Don, the entire air tube assembly can be removed from the gun without depressurizing it and it remains in a safe condition throughout. That said, you can remove the trigger assembly and work on it without fear, however, I would not do so because you have to take it off safe in order to work on the trigger.
My favorite method is to remove the barrel band, remove the shroud, remove the barrel, then remove the air tube assembly. This gives you access to the rest of the gun with no fear of stored energy.
The trigger is easily disassembled and easily polished and easily reassembled as long as you have a vice that you can pad are use plastic vise jaws, good punches and hammer.
I am doing some adjustments to one of my .25 air rifles this weekend, I can take pictures and walk you through the air tube removal to show you how safe it is to do so.
My triggers are breaking between 1-1/2 and 2- 1/2 pounds depending on the gun. They are smooth and not Gravely, you can also shorten them up quite a bit but you may need a little threadlocker to keep that 1 mm socket grub screw from backing out.
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No need to depressurize before removing the trigger components. Nothing associated with them is seeing any high pressure.
Everything pressurized is part of the air tube assembly. The air tube is a modular assembly that also houses the valve. If you want, you can completely remove it and set it aside while you do your work.
Personally I wouldn’t (I didn’t) but feel free to do so if it aids your confidence.
Jason is absolutely correct. Just make sure the gun is not loaded before you start the work.
I doubt you will see any significant gains from a lube only. This is due to some of the problem is with the sear engagement, which is not accessible without disassembly.
The trigger can be GREATLY improved with a polish and lube. (I have done several of them).
They generally come from the factory with a very gritty 4.5 to 5lb "dry" pull.
To properly do the work, you need to remove 3 pins. These are,
The trigger pivot pin,
The pin just forward of the trigger,
And the sear pivot pin.
Use a magnifying glass to determine which side of the pins are splines. Drive out th pins from the non-splined side... (meaning, do not drive the splines through the trigger group).
Be careful to NOT OVER STRETCH the trigger or sear springs, as you remove the springs from the trigger blade and sear.
Next, remove the cocking pin in the bottom of the hammer that is held in place with a single hex screw at the rear of the hammer.
(Take note of its orientation before removal).
Now polish the metal to metal surfaces (in the direction of motion). I like to go to a 2000 grit and then buff to shine.
Do Not round off any edges. And remove any burrs or "record grooves" in the surfaces.
Polish the cocking pin working surfaces in the same manner.
Sometimes the cocking pins have had a tendency to come loose, due to the hex screw is only holding them on the flat surface.
You should see a witness mark on the flat surface from the hex screw.
I eliminate the slipping problem by using a dremmel with a round tip bit, and creating a "divot" at the witness mark. This creates a "shallow" for the hex screw to nest in.
Put SMALL DAB of moly on the working surfaces of the pin and a SMALL DAD or BLUE loctite on the upper end of the pin upon installation . Tighten the hew screw while feeling it nest into the shallow you created with the dremmel.
Lube the trigger components working surfaces with a small dab of moly and reassemble.
Again, being careful to NOT OVER STRETCH the springs.
The results should be a VERY CLEAN and Crisp, Very predictable break at approx 2 to 2.5 lbs.
Hope this helps.
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No need to depressurize before removing the trigger components. Nothing associated with them is seeing any high pressure.
Everything pressurized is part of the air tube assembly. The air tube is a modular assembly that also houses the valve. If you want, you can completely remove it and set it aside while you do your work.
Personally I wouldn’t (I didn’t) but feel free to do so if it aids your confidence.
Jason is absolutely correct. Just make sure the gun is not loaded before you start the work.
I doubt you will see any significant gains from a lube only. This is due to some of the problem is with the sear engagement, which is not accessible without disassembly.
The trigger can be GREATLY improved with a polish and lube. (I have done several of them).
They generally come from the factory with a very gritty 4.5 to 5lb "dry" pull.
To properly do the work, you need to remove 3 pins. These are,
The trigger pivot pin,
The pin just forward of the trigger,
And the sear pivot pin.
Use a magnifying glass to determine which side of the pins are splines. Drive out th pins from the non-splined side... (meaning, do not drive the splines through the trigger group).
Be careful to NOT OVER STRETCH the trigger or sear springs, as you remove the springs from the trigger blade and sear.
Next, remove the cocking pin in the bottom of the hammer that is held in place with a single hex screw at the rear of the hammer.
(Take note of its orientation before removal).
Now polish the metal to metal surfaces (in the direction of motion). I like to go to a 2000 grit and then buff to shine.
Do Not round off any edges. And remove any burrs or "record grooves" in the surfaces.
Polish the cocking pin working surfaces in the same manner.
Sometimes the cocking pins have had a tendency to come loose, due to the hex screw is only holding them on the flat surface.
You should see a witness mark on the flat surface from the hex screw.
I eliminate the slipping problem by using a dremmel with a round tip bit, and creating a "divot" at the witness mark. This creates a "shallow" for the hex screw to nest in.
Put SMALL DAB of moly on the working surfaces of the pin and a SMALL DAD or BLUE loctite on the upper end of the pin upon installation . Tighten the hew screw while feeling it nest into the shallow you created with the dremmel.
Lube the trigger components working surfaces with a small dab of moly and reassemble.
Again, being careful to NOT OVER STRETCH the springs.
The results should be a VERY CLEAN and Crisp, Very predictable break at approx 2 to 2.5 lbs.
Hope this helps.
Nice post, Ron. ;D
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Guys,
Many thanks for the replies and offers to help out with pictures. I will certainly reach out if I decide to tear into it.
Today I screwed in the adjustment screw a lot, and put some "fancy" oil into the back of the trigger group and it helped quite a bit. Rained all day so could not put it on bags to see if it helped.
I have some Lubriplate I used to use on 1911 triggers and will try that tomorrow. I should be able to get in there with a toothpick without removing the trigger.
I am not expecting an Anschutz trigger on the gun. It will be used for plinking and pest control.
I am really loving the gun. BTW bought it because I was having problems with a Daystate Huntsman I bought earlier this year. This darn thing is outshooting the Daystate!!!. The Daystate is begin shipped back to me this week after sending it back to AofA to get some service work done. AofA have been good folks to work with so wanted to share that as well.
It is so pleasant to be able to set up on the back porch and shoot without having hearing protection or policing brass. I hate casting and reloading; and PCP lets me do what I enjoy....SHOOT!!!! And it is very cheap per shot with good accuracy.
Again thanks for the advice and answering my question.
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These DAR rifles appear very similar to the Benjamin Fortitude PCP that I have been considering. Are there any particular reasons to go with the DAR over the Benjamin?
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In my opinion, the DAR would be the better choice... My only concern is customer support.
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I have a Dar gen 2 .177 cal and its been a fantastic gun. Extremely accurate and quite. I've only had one issue a few months back it developed a slow leak. I contacted Dar and they responded by the next day. I removed the air cylinder and just shipped that back. They fixed and had back to me within 2 weeks all under warranty. On the accuracy, its a toss up between my Dar and my .177 Maverick out to 50yrds. Dar is tuned at 800fps with the FX 13gr. Great gun for the money!!!
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These DAR rifles appear very similar to the Benjamin Fortitude PCP that I have been considering. Are there any particular reasons to go with the DAR over the Benjamin?
Two YOUGE differences right off the batt: DAR all aluminum magazines. EZPZ cocking lever on the DAR.
I load mags for my wife's Diana Bandit and my Gauntlet, they both su ck at mangling pellets and have to be wound up first and the first pellet has to be backwards.... ARRRG!
Got NO time for that nonsense and no time for plastic mags like the Fortitudes.
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Had DAR had a .30 in the line up? May not have tried the AEA.
But glad I did try the AEA. Still have my eye on DAR for somethings I heard rumors about.
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I had the genII .25. I liked it alot. No issues right from the git. Only reason I don't have it now is because I was offered an Evanix Air Speed for it. The semi auto tickled my fancy.
I can afford another Dar if I so choose... The Air Speed wasn't in the acceptable budget.
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Had DAR had a .30 in the line up? May not have tried the AEA.
But glad I did try the AEA. Still have my eye on DAR for somethings I heard rumors about.
Yupper, cant wait for Gen lll! 😉
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Quick question for DAR past or present owners.
Where was your regulator set physically, not pressure but did you have threads showing or was the tip recessed?
How many turns in was yours set at?
I ask this because my granddaughter took my notebook home with her and her mom and dad cant find it so all my DAR notes look to be lost.
Thanks for your help in advance!
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Quick question for DAR past or present owners.
Where was your regulator set physically, not pressure but did you have threads showing or was the tip recessed?
How many turns in was yours set at?
I ask this because my granddaughter took my notebook home with her and her mom and dad cant find it so all my DAR notes look to be lost.
Thanks for your help in advance!
Are you talking about the physical regulator or the hammer spring adjustment at the back of the block? I have yet to mess with the regulator but I did change out the stock spring. My hammer screw was about flush when new.
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Here's a pic of my Dar. A work in progress!!!
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Quick question for DAR past or present owners.
Where was your regulator set physically, not pressure but did you have threads showing or was the tip recessed?
How many turns in was yours set at?
I ask this because my granddaughter took my notebook home with her and her mom and dad cant find it so all my DAR notes look to be lost.
Thanks for your help in advance!
May not help much mine has been flwless since day 1, page 4 in this thread I ordered mine, page 6 I got mine and here is the numbers I got out of the box, https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156049944#msg156049944 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156049944#msg156049944) and for my use it was perfect OTB
Sorry for not having to mess with mine ;)
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Quick question for DAR past or present owners.
Where was your regulator set physically, not pressure but did you have threads showing or was the tip recessed?
How many turns in was yours set at?
I ask this because my granddaughter took my notebook home with her and her mom and dad cant find it so all my DAR notes look to be lost.
Thanks for your help in advance!
May not help much mine has been flwless since day 1, page 4 in this thread I ordered mine, page 6 I got mine and here is the numbers I got out of the box, https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156049944#msg156049944 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179804.msg156049944#msg156049944) and for my use it was perfect OTB
Sorry for not having to mess with mine ;)
James, what's your trigger pull? Was it tuned when you got it?
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I was one of the early ones to order my Dar Gen 2, it's got a defective part they promised to send me but they never did, that's been months ago ??? Someone gave me the phone number to get hold of them way back but can't find the number.
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I was one of the early ones to order my Dar Gen 2, it's got a defective part they promised to send me but they never did, that's been months ago ??? Someone gave me the phone number to get hold of them way back but can't find the number.
You would think it would be on their website wouldn’t ya? I mean I guess if I owned a business I wouldn’t put a working number on my website either (🤯 sarcasm).. Good luck unfortunately I’m guessing you’ll need it. I suggest you keep voicing your problem as much as you possibly can.
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I guess I just don't understand how one can go through all it takes to bring a gun to market then do a Gen II with marked improvements, gain a fan base and then go nips up like this.
Last I heard they moved and were gaining ground on the backlog.
I enjoyed my GenII for the short time I had it but now I don't feel so bad that it went on down the road.
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I would just like to know the oring sizes to replace mine that leak.
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Matt... you might ask Gertrude (Ron) and see if him or Steve knows.
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I’ve emailed and called several times about a complete list of O-rings and got nothing. For now I am enjoying my DAR GEN II in .22. Having said that I will not recommend it to anyone until all is resolved.
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I purchased the .177 a month or so ago and Joe went thru it and replaced all the pressure side o rings and poppet. He also sent me 3 o ring kits for the other 3 Dars I have. Have not had the need to contact them recently so not sure can get in touch with them if no one else can. I really like mine. Actually had an issue with finish coming off one of the stocks and Joe sent me a new one. He is a great guy to deal with.
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I purchased the .177 a month or so ago and Joe went thru it and replaced all the pressure side o rings and poppet. He also sent me 3 o ring kits for the other 3 Dars I have. Have not had the need to contact them recently so not sure can get in touch with them if no one else can. I really like mine. Actually had an issue with finish coming off one of the stocks and Joe sent me a new one. He is a great guy to deal with.
I spoke with Joe a few weeks back about a .177 (momma needs to approve it first) and he said they were selling well and had parts.
I'll post his numbers again once I get home to my PC.
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Guys
Here is the "O" ring sizes that were sent to me several weeks ago, by Joe?
I have both the 17 & 22 caliber DAR's Gen II rifles
I don't know which "O" ring package fit's what's caliber, as the packages were not marked,
17 cal ?,
1.- 1.50 x 2.8mm (thickness + I/S diameter) = 1 each unless noted other amounts,
2. -1.55 x 4.50mm
3.- 1.55 x 11.00mm
4.- 2.5 x 21.00mm x (2 - O rings)
22 cal ?
1. - 1.55 x 2.8mm (thickness + I/S diameter) = 1 each unless noted other amounts,
2. - 1.55 x 5.50mm = (barrel "O" ring for bolt/probe sealing)
3. - 1.55 x 9.10mm
4. - 2.00 x 14.00mm x (2 - O rings)
5. - 2.50 x 21.00mm x (2 - O rings)
Guys
I tried to measure these "O" rings as accurately as possible.
I would order 1 size larger & smaller I/S diameter, that way you have all bases covered etc.
some of the measurements did not fit the metric sizes exactly,
so I went with the closest metric available from the "O" Ring Store charts.
If someone tears their rifle down, I hope they note where each "O" ring goes etc,
and posts the info for all of us..
Barrel "O" ring seal on the bolt probe,
The size that is in my DAR 22 cal barrel, is as follows,
Thickness/CS = .061"
Inside diameter = .216"
Outside diameter = .270"
No AS size can be found to fit above.
This "O" Ring is metric, Metric size would be =
1.5mm X 5.5mm ID
0.059" CS X 0.217" ID
HTH's
Don
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Thanks for that Don.
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I just wish for an exploded diagram showing the parts in logical order,
I have the "O" rings, but don't want to dismantle both my guns,
as there is ALWAYS a hidden problem area etc.
Both of my rifles have leaks......... ::)
Thanks,
Don
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Joe and company should have o ring kits for these guns now , with all the problems with o rings they had you would think they would of fast tracked o ring kits for these guns , he told me a while back they would be available , I called him left a message , and never received a call back so maybe it's time to try again , I want to get a couple kit's for each DAR gun I have .22 ,and the .25 ...
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Here is the contact info for DAR:
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883 <
HTH's,
Don
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Here is the contact info for DAR:
1219 E. Locust Street
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: support@aimsportsinc.com
Toll-free: 909-923-2228
1-909-923-7883 <
HTH's,
Don
Thanks Don.
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Don thanks a lot for those contact numbers, I'll probably try emailing them first ???
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Matt... you might ask Gertrude (Ron) and see if him or Steve knows.
I had though about asking Ron if he would be interested in resealing doing some trigger work and tuning it for me.
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Ask Don how he likes his that Ron and Steve tinkered on... ;)
That was a virtually new, out of the box gun when he got it from me.
I promise you, I hadn't even cleaned the barrel. I was that happy with it. I can't even imagine how good it is now.
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I posted this in the Xisico fan club also. Mostly looking at .177 or .22 this time around.
Hi guys, I'm new to PCP rifles and looking into Xisico 705's and the DAR's. I haven't decided on a caliber yet, for my first one, but I see several of you have both. My question is do you have a brand preference and what caliber did you choose and why?
TIA
Jerry
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I posted this in the Xisico fan club also. Mostly looking at .177 or .22 this time around.
Hi guys, I'm new to PCP rifles and looking into Xisico 705's and the DAR's. I haven't decided on a caliber yet, for my first one, but I see several of you have both. My question is do you have a brand preference and what caliber did you choose and why?
TIA
Jerry
Definitely .22 but either gun will serve you well.
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We talked about these last night in the chat. I would kill for more all metal mags.
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We talked about these last night in the chat. I would kill for more all metal mags.
I saw you guys starting on DAR but I had to run.... bottom line, is it worth it?
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I can vouch for my gen2 .177 DAR would buy over a mrod, also have a .177 mrod,I only have an earlier version of the Sentry .22, I bought new as is, took some tinkering to up the power that I was after, and a few hiccups along the way but now is a solid gun also.
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We talked about these last night in the chat. I would kill for more all metal mags.
I saw you guys starting on DAR but I had to run.... bottom line, is it worth it?
On mags alone, there is no dicscussion. DAR on the left and Gauntlet on the right (same mag as the mrod).
The DAR mags straight load, no flipping or winding, just push a pellet in and turn far enough for the next one and so on...
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Duplicate
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Thanks for your input David.
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I would have to agree with David on the mags.... I have a few different guns and the mags on the Dar are better quality than my FX mags. They are simple and just work. I love my 177 Dar and is my go to rifle when pesting around my house. Its accurate, quiet without a moderator and when you do put one on its stupid quiet. Mine loves the fx 13gr and have taken 50 + ground squirrels with it!
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The only real negative, that I've found so far, is the DAR has a 1 year warranty.
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If nothing goes wrong in 1 year may not happen for another 5-10 years an many cases ;)
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That was my thought too. So now Sentry or DAR and decided to drop the .177 and add the .25 to mix. Hows that for waffleing?
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I have two of the .25 and a .22, Ill finally get the .177 after I have the new Husqvarna chainsaw paid off.
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I just talked to Joe at Dar , he is going to send me a o ring kit for my .25 , it is not leaking at all , I just want a back up kit in case it does leak since it was in the batch of guns that had o ring problems , all of the new gun's for sale have had the o rings changed out now , so no worry's buying a new gun o ring wise ...
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I would love to get a DAR .22 but the last thing I want to do is have to take it apart, and trouble shoot, a NEW AR that I don't know. Isn't that part of getting a new anything they should be ready to use?
I'm considering a .25 in the future but may wait or go for a brand that works from the begining. The talk of a new model makes me wonder if a fix is part of the gen IIs future or a gen III is in the works. Do you guys see DAR getting better recently? Several people have given up and went elsewhere. I don't see most of the other brands having this kind of problems, and yes I've read all of this.
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
Don , no they are gen 2 that has new o rings , and the poppet contact surface increased by lightly sanding down -enlarging the contact sealing surface area ... so you should be good to go on buying a new .25 Dar ...
I told Joe to drill a hole in a plate of steel big enough to get the poppet shaft threw then use ultra fine sand paper on the plate to spin the poppet on to enlarge the sealing surface area ,and it worked perfect ! ... ;D
one other thing I should mention when bleeding the air out of the gun -just barely crack the bleeder screw loose ,and let the gun leak down slowly , there is a check sealing ball that can get out of alignment if you loosen the bleeder screw up to much causing it to leak ...
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Don, which do you like more, Sentry or DAR, and why? They are the ones i'm most interested in.
TIA
Jerry
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I would love to get a DAR .22 but the last thing I want to do is have to take it apart, and trouble shoot, a NEW AR that I don't know. Isn't that part of getting a new anything they should be ready to use?
I'm considering a .25 in the future but may wait or go for a brand that works from the begining. The talk of a new model makes me wonder if a fix is part of the gen IIs future or a gen III is in the works. Do you guys see DAR getting better recently? Several people have given up and went elsewhere. I don't see most of the other brands having this kind of problems, and yes I've read all of this.
I guess I don't agree with the statement of, "I don't see most of the other brands having this kind of problems." as there are posts every day about problems with every AR made, from FX to AEA, Benjamin etc.
The DAR had one issue... O-rings. That has been solved and they are now working out of the box as intended.
I own three and a fourth is coming soon.
Are these perfect? Nope, none are. They are darn good though. And since I am a tinkerer at heart, I tune the trigger and velocity to my liking.
But don't let me change your mind, everybody has a preference.
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
I'm sworn to secrecy but the gen lll will be of a different design.
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David, thanks for your response. I may have been too general with that post, but even Wayne got a lemon recently, and can't get it fixed. I know DAR is trying to get back up to speed but I do feel that a consumer should get a functioning item no matter what you are buying. Maybe I should wait for a while and revisit this subject at a later time.
Thanks again
Jerry
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David, thanks for your response. I may have been too general with that post, but even Wayne got a lemon recently, and can't get it fixed. I know DAR is trying to get back up to speed but I do feel that a consumer should get a functioning item no matter what you are buying. Maybe I should wait for a while and revisit this subject at a later time.
Thanks again
Jerry
Jerry,
It's ultimately a decision you have to live with so proceed cautiously.
@Wayne, when did you buy this one? Was it before Joe got in to them to change the O-rings?
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
I'm sworn to secrecy but the gen lll will be of a different design.
Hey David, I was actually thinking about a DAR at one time (about a quarter of the way into this long thread or thereabouts) then I changed my mind reading further, but lately I've been reading nowadays posts and it looks like the o-rings and poppet seat issues are worked out, and if they could just perfect getting a promised part out to the customer in time without someone needing to intercede to get it done, it might still be a buy for me.
But then this ^ did kinda Osborne me into now waiting a bit longer... ;) ;) ;)
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I just got off the phone with Joe, I had a wonderful conversation with him about many topics, one being about O-rings and the sizing. This is a continuing priority for them BUT Joe is the only person (that I know of) that is working with the DAR rifles. He has many of the dimensions already and will be getting back to tabulating all of those measurements and getting them to us soon.
But that's not the BIG news, I finally ordered the fourth DAR as well as 3 additional mags in .177! I can't wait to load it up and send some down range and see the groups. MUCH tweaking will follow the inaugural sit-down so hang on for the ride!
Joe is sending me some O-ring kits for the three DAR's I have so that if I do have issues in the future, I am ready to address them on the spot.
A couple personal notes about my conversation today as well as past conversations with DAR: Aim Sports sells PB parts and accessories, the DAR is small part of them and due to the overwhelming demand for PB stuff, the DAR side can be slower. It's not purposeful or negligent when issues come up that are not solved immediately, you may need to remind them of an issue and/or get Joe to take care of you on the spot if he has the ability to do so.
Joe is also customer service for Aim Sports, and I'll bet he gets slammed from time to time with all the shipping nonsense etc. that goes on in the sales world.
To those who claim the phone number doesn't work, call during business hours and not during lunch time, my call was picked up after 1 ring and I was transferred to Joe in Customer Service directly.
Call 1-909-923-2228, the other number apparently doesn't get answered.
If you cant get a hold of Joe, PLEASE contact me and I will get a hold of Joe for you.
Lastly, Joe reads our posts, he is up to date on our conversations and is paying attention to us. He IS one of us, he IS an airgunner too. We are fortunate to have DAR here with us be part of us.
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David, thanks for your response. I may have been too general with that post, but even Wayne got a lemon recently, and can't get it fixed. I know DAR is trying to get back up to speed but I do feel that a consumer should get a functioning item no matter what you are buying. Maybe I should wait for a while and revisit this subject at a later time.
Thanks again
Jerry
Jerry,
It's ultimately a decision you have to live with so proceed cautiously.
@Wayne, when did you buy this one? Was it before Joe got in to them to change the O-rings?
I got it probably the 3rd week of November 2020, it was before they shipped them with different o rings I'm sure.
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
I'm sworn to secrecy but the gen lll will be of a different design.
David ,.. Dar should make a .30 ,and add a few inches to the barrel ... ;D ... my .25 has been good since day 1 I was lucky because this was a first batch gun's with no o rings replaced .... I have not touched that 1 as far as tuning goes as it is dead accurate at 50 yards removing a dime size circle off my target paper at 870 's fps with pellets 12 shots in a row I did one time LOL ! .22 is like 906 fps with cheap crosman hp walmart ammo and it is capable of doing about the same as the .25 at 50 with those cheap pellets , and shoots NOE hunter's pretty good also ...
The bleeder screw is what everyone needs to know about - you just barely crack it open to create a slow leak and let it take some time to air out , if you back out that bleeder screw to far it can miss alien that ball piece that seals it off , and that ball can get damaged ... I was able to get it to seal up after mine was damaged by using plumber's tape on the the threads LOL !
I sent my .22 back to Dar with bleeder screw leaking issue , and a o ring leaking problem in the reg , Joe swapped me out the air tube /valve assembly ,and the gun has performed perfect since ... so just barely loose on the bleeder screw with slow leak to degas the gun .....
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The wooden stock and alulminum mags are the reason I place it in first place over the Sentry. I will follow this for a while to see if the rest gets resolved. A new model/generation sounds interesting.Thanks guys.
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The wooden stock and alulminum mags are the reason I place it in first place over the Sentry. I will follow this for a while to see if the rest gets resolved. A new model/generation sounds interesting.Thanks guys.
It's resolved, the guns arrive aired up and working. The issues are old news now. Order one after talking with Joe and send it back on his dime if it doesn't live up to this "fan-boys" hype. 😁
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Dan
Are these new rifles the gen 3 ones?
I have 2 Gen 2 in 17 and 22 cal, looking for a 25, that will make a 3 gun set for the Sentry's and Dar's,
then when I test the pellet sizer press I am working on, I should have a good test bed..........LOL
Don
I'm sworn to secrecy but the gen lll will be of a different design.
David ,.. Dar should make a .30 ,and add a few inches to the barrel ... ;D ... my .25 has been good since day 1 I was lucky because this was a first batch gun's with no o rings replaced .... I have not touched that 1 as far as tuning goes as it is dead accurate at 50 yards removing a dime size circle off my target paper at 870 's fps with pellets 12 shots in a row I did one time LOL ! .22 is like 906 fps with cheap crosman hp walmart ammo and it is capable of doing about the same as the .25 at 50 with those cheap pellets , and shoots NOE hunter's pretty good also ...
The bleeder screw is what everyone needs to know about - you just barely crack it open to create a slow leak and let it take some time to air out , if you back out that bleeder screw to far it can miss alien that ball piece that seals it off , and that ball can get damaged ... I was able to get it to seal up after mine was damaged by using plumber's tape on the the threads LOL !
I sent my .22 back to Dar with bleeder screw leaking issue , and a o ring leaking problem in the reg , Joe swapped me out the air tube /valve assembly ,and the gun has performed perfect since ... so just barely loose on the bleeder screw with slow leak to degas the gun .....
.30.....
"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
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The wooden stock and alulminum mags are the reason I place it in first place over the Sentry. I will follow this for a while to see if the rest gets resolved. A new model/generation sounds interesting.Thanks guys.
It's resolved, the guns arrive aired up and working. The issues are old news now. Order one after talking with Joe and send it back on his dime if it doesn't live up to this "fan-boys" hype. 😁
David you are right they go threw each gun , change o rings to high quality ones , increase poppet seal area , and test them for holding air , and make sure they function correctly ,.... So right now is a good time to buy a Dar since the tested quality control is really good right now ... Dar in it's price range $299.95 is the best right now all around quality ,and light weight field performance ....
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My DAR has been perfect. No leaks whatsoever, bought before DAR started going through and replacing o-rings. Should I bother getting it "updated" either by swapping o-rings and polishing the poppet end myself or sending it back to DAR? I think having a kit of correct o-rings on hand is fine so maybe I'll give them a call.
Does anybody make an aftermarket cocking lever with a vertical bar at the end to make it easier to grab? That, and the chunkiness of the stock, are my only real complaints. Otherwise I've been very happy with mine.
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My DAR has been perfect. No leaks whatsoever, bought before DAR started going through and replacing o-rings. Should I bother getting it "updated" either by swapping o-rings and polishing the poppet end myself or sending it back to DAR? I think having a kit of correct o-rings on hand is fine so maybe I'll give them a call.
Does anybody make an aftermarket cocking lever with a vertical bar at the end to make it easier to grab? That, and the chunkiness of the stock, are my only real complaints. Otherwise I've been very happy with mine.
Call Joe, he will send you a pack of rings gratis. No aftermarket lever yet but making one with a bar is on my winter machining list. I need to ask Joe about getting a spare...
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
The .22 has a wide power band if you want to open it up and tweak the regulator but in stock configuration, I can get almost 50 shots at 850 FPS and have them hit within a quarter size all day long.
Mind you, this is with CPHP's at 1.2 cents each and right now, they seem to be coming back to Wally-Worlds in pretty good stock.
I use mine for pesting, targets, plinking, trigger control exercises and LRS exercises for 2 legged pests. This platform allows an affordable and durable field system for hunting as well.
Perfect? By no means. That said, none are perfect. You choose your comfort level but at $300 delivered, is there even a choice?
I have a .177 on the road right now to round my clutch out and if I am honest with you, the .25 with a 46gr slug, is my go-to for large pests.
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What are LRS Exercises?
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
The .22 has a wide power band if you want to open it up and tweak the regulator but in stock configuration, I can get almost 50 shots at 850 FPS and have them hit within a quarter size all day long.
Mind you, this is with CPHP's at 1.2 cents each and right now, they seem to be coming back to Wally-Worlds in pretty good stock.
I use mine for pesting, targets, plinking, trigger control exercises and LRS exercises for 2 legged pests. This platform allows an affordable and durable field system for hunting as well.
Perfect? By no means. That said, none are perfect. You choose your comfort level but at $300 delivered, is there even a choice?
I have a .177 on the road right now to round my clutch out and if I am honest with you, the .25 with a 46gr slug, is my go-to for large pests.
David,
Think you'll really like your 177. I have a 177 and that's my go to for pesting around the house. I did change out the factory hammer spring as the stock one was a bit to stiff and didn't have much adjustment in FPS from all the way backed out to turned all the way in. I'm shooting the FX 13gr out to 50yrs with great results. Also loves the JSB 10gr.
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What are LRS Exercises?
This is not the site to discuss LRS, sorry. :-X
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
The .22 has a wide power band if you want to open it up and tweak the regulator but in stock configuration, I can get almost 50 shots at 850 FPS and have them hit within a quarter size all day long.
Mind you, this is with CPHP's at 1.2 cents each and right now, they seem to be coming back to Wally-Worlds in pretty good stock.
I use mine for pesting, targets, plinking, trigger control exercises and LRS exercises for 2 legged pests. This platform allows an affordable and durable field system for hunting as well.
Perfect? By no means. That said, none are perfect. You choose your comfort level but at $300 delivered, is there even a choice?
I have a .177 on the road right now to round my clutch out and if I am honest with you, the .25 with a 46gr slug, is my go-to for large pests.
David,
Think you'll really like your 177. I have a 177 and that's my go to for pesting around the house. I did change out the factory hammer spring as the stock one was a bit to stiff and didn't have much adjustment in FPS from all the way backed out to turned all the way in. I'm shooting the FX 13gr out to 50yrs with great results. Also loves the JSB 10gr.
Ed,
I was gifted several thousand daisy 177 pellets that were purchased accidentally and bought a Gauntlet to use them up but the gauntlet magazines are so poorly made and the gauntlet bolt is so stiff that I decided I needed to get the DAR in .177 since I knew I could make the lever slide like butter.
Thanks for the spring idea, do you have a link?
If the DAR can do with Daisy pellets what it does with CPHP's, I'll be one happy camper!
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That's funny I just did nearly the exact thing. I just don't enjoy shooting my Gauntlet that much, so I ordered the DAR to use up the thousands of cheap .177 pellets I have. But to be honest I don't really enjoy my Marauder either. There's nothing wrong with either of them, I just find my Avenger way more pleasurable to shoot. I have high hopes for the DAR, I'm going to miss the whack of a .22 but at least it will shoot a little flatter.
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That's funny I just did nearly the exact thing. I just don't enjoy shooting my Gauntlet that much, so I ordered the DAR to use up the thousands of cheap .177 pellets I have. But to be honest I don't really enjoy my Marauder either. There's nothing wrong with either of them, I just find my Avenger way more pleasurable to shoot. I have high hopes for the DAR, I'm going to miss the whack of a .22 but at least it will shoot a little flatter.
NSA 12.5 gr. .177 slug will have the whack of a .22, and pest birds go pop, so does a weasel ;)
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I'm not getting rid of my .22's, but I have a lot of .177 plinking ammo to shoot up. I'm thinking about pushing them supersonic for fun as long as the accuracy is acceptable.
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
The .22 has a wide power band if you want to open it up and tweak the regulator but in stock configuration, I can get almost 50 shots at 850 FPS and have them hit within a quarter size all day long.
Mind you, this is with CPHP's at 1.2 cents each and right now, they seem to be coming back to Wally-Worlds in pretty good stock.
I use mine for pesting, targets, plinking, trigger control exercises and LRS exercises for 2 legged pests. This platform allows an affordable and durable field system for hunting as well.
Perfect? By no means. That said, none are perfect. You choose your comfort level but at $300 delivered, is there even a choice?
I have a .177 on the road right now to round my clutch out and if I am honest with you, the .25 with a 46gr slug, is my go-to for large pests.
David,
Think you'll really like your 177. I have a 177 and that's my go to for pesting around the house. I did change out the factory hammer spring as the stock one was a bit to stiff and didn't have much adjustment in FPS from all the way backed out to turned all the way in. I'm shooting the FX 13gr out to 50yrs with great results. Also loves the JSB 10gr.
Ed,
I was gifted several thousand daisy 177 pellets that were purchased accidentally and bought a Gauntlet to use them up but the gauntlet magazines are so poorly made and the gauntlet bolt is so stiff that I decided I needed to get the DAR in .177 since I knew I could make the lever slide like butter.
Thanks for the spring idea, do you have a link?
If the DAR can do with Daisy pellets what it does with CPHP's, I'll be one happy camper!
Dan,
If I remember I picked up the spring from our local hardware store. I'll be shooting the rifle this weekend, I'll pull the spring and get you the size. Its a lot like the factory but a bit shorter...
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Dan and David, thanks for the info, part of the reason I'm making sure the Gen II is ready for prime time is my brother wants one too. I don't want to be responsible for trying to maintain two DARs, or more, for the rest of my life. LOL. I will talk with him and if all is a GO I will order a couple DARs soon. Probably in .22.
Thanks Again
Jerry
The .22 has a wide power band if you want to open it up and tweak the regulator but in stock configuration, I can get almost 50 shots at 850 FPS and have them hit within a quarter size all day long.
Mind you, this is with CPHP's at 1.2 cents each and right now, they seem to be coming back to Wally-Worlds in pretty good stock.
I use mine for pesting, targets, plinking, trigger control exercises and LRS exercises for 2 legged pests. This platform allows an affordable and durable field system for hunting as well.
Perfect? By no means. That said, none are perfect. You choose your comfort level but at $300 delivered, is there even a choice?
I have a .177 on the road right now to round my clutch out and if I am honest with you, the .25 with a 46gr slug, is my go-to for large pests.
David,
Think you'll really like your 177. I have a 177 and that's my go to for pesting around the house. I did change out the factory hammer spring as the stock one was a bit to stiff and didn't have much adjustment in FPS from all the way backed out to turned all the way in. I'm shooting the FX 13gr out to 50yrs with great results. Also loves the JSB 10gr.
Ed,
I was gifted several thousand daisy 177 pellets that were purchased accidentally and bought a Gauntlet to use them up but the gauntlet magazines are so poorly made and the gauntlet bolt is so stiff that I decided I needed to get the DAR in .177 since I knew I could make the lever slide like butter.
Thanks for the spring idea, do you have a link?
If the DAR can do with Daisy pellets what it does with CPHP's, I'll be one happy camper!
Dan,
If I remember I picked up the spring from our local hardware store. I'll be shooting the rifle this weekend, I'll pull the spring and get you the size. Its a lot like the factory but a bit shorter...
Sorry, David not Dan! Its early and only on my second cup of coffee!!! ;D
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What are LRS Exercises?
This is not the site to discuss LRS, sorry. :-X
Don’t want to discuss it; only want to know what the abbreviation is. Googling didn’t get anything useful.
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What are LRS Exercises?
This is not the site to discuss LRS, sorry. :-X
Don’t want to discuss it; only want to know what the abbreviation is. Googling didn’t get anything useful.
I noticed the same thing.
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My guess is Long Range Shooting.. ???
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That’s the best one I found too, but what about long range shooting would this not be the site for? Still scratching my head :)
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The part they're supposed to be shipping to me has still not shipped yet, it shows up as waiting for USPS pick up since the 2nd, sure am hoping that they will finally ship me the part soon, I'd like to try using the gun during squirrel season this year.
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USPS tracking can be slow update.
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USPS tracking can be slow update.
I've had parts in hand this year that still showed to be yet to be picked up. I'd call Joe and make sure.
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In my experience USPS tracking sometimes never updates. I shipped my Grandson some Birthday presents a few weeks ago and according to USPS it never left Houston but it did get to it's destination.
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The wooden stock and alulminum mags are the reason I place it in first place over the Sentry. I will follow this for a while to see if the rest gets resolved. A new model/generation sounds interesting.Thanks guys.
It's resolved, the guns arrive aired up and working. The issues are old news now. Order one after talking with Joe and send it back on his dime if it doesn't live up to this "fan-boys" hype. 😁
David, Dan and Wayne, thanks for your input. I called and talked to Joe and have two ordered so should be here next week, thanks again. Oh, they are out of extra mags, hope to get some soon.
Jerry
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The wooden stock and alulminum mags are the reason I place it in first place over the Sentry. I will follow this for a while to see if the rest gets resolved. A new model/generation sounds interesting.Thanks guys.
It's resolved, the guns arrive aired up and working. The issues are old news now. Order one after talking with Joe and send it back on his dime if it doesn't live up to this "fan-boys" hype. 😁
David, Dan and Wayne, thanks for your input. I called and talked to Joe and have two ordered so should be here next week, thanks again. Oh, they are out of extra mags, hope to get some soon.
Jerry
Jerry, With the guns on their way, now is the time to gather up the items you will need to clean and lubricate the gun. The trigger needs a tiny dab of moly grease and needs a little polishing on the sear. The cocking lever needs a dab of moly on the pivot and the contact point where the hammer gets pushed in.
Clean the barrel, they do come in very dirty so dont shoot it unless you are using felt pellets until its been cleaned and waxed.
Check all the screws but be VERY careful to not over tighten the barrel band screws, they should be only tight enough to be snug as they are too small to really torque. I back them both off and remove the band, unscrew the barrel shroud, remove it and remove the moderator cups, clean them if grit is present, watch the way they come out so you get it reassembled correctly.
Remove the barrel to facilitate cleaning from the breach, remove the breach O-ring and clean the barrel, wax or polish then replace the O-ring with silicone oil on it. Check the barrel for straightness (runout) and reassemble.
Caveat emptor, disassembly will void your warranty so tread lightly, leave no marks if you you perform the work above.
I strongly suggest you purchase a set of metric allen wrenches and soft jaw pads for your vice to hold the stock, receiver or barrel. These are very soft and dont dent the stock: https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-71107-Multi-Purpose-Magnetic-Vise/dp/B0763MG8WF/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=soft+jaws+for+6+inch+vice&qid=1631359570&s=software&sr=1-8 (https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-71107-Multi-Purpose-Magnetic-Vise/dp/B0763MG8WF/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=soft+jaws+for+6+inch+vice&qid=1631359570&s=software&sr=1-8)
These are harder but I like them a lot more for simple jobs and barrel bending. https://www.amazon.com/DEF-Magnetic-Cover-Multi-Purpose-Protector/dp/B07Q4DRVG2/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=soft+jaws+for+6+inch+vice&qid=1631359570&s=software&sr=1-11 (https://www.amazon.com/DEF-Magnetic-Cover-Multi-Purpose-Protector/dp/B07Q4DRVG2/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=soft+jaws+for+6+inch+vice&qid=1631359570&s=software&sr=1-11)
No jaw pad is perfect and I consider them to be consumables but they are so much better/easier to use then a shop towel.
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Thanks for the info David, I hadn't seen the procedure before now. Do you use Johnsons paste wax? I have stones and moly grease.
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Yes, I use Johnsons paste wax after cleaning the bore. It's a "why not?" issue for me.
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On the topic of waxing the bore
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438)
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On the topic of waxing the bore
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438)
As the Monkeys once sang, "Now I'm a believer!" ;D
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https://youtu.be/BYiSkgRO-Ns
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As luck would have it, the DAR .177 is a shotgun out of the box at a 3000 psi fill. At 1700 psi, the groups come together with all pellets of all weights. No chrony data yet since I am cutting wood for winter and am just sneaking in shots between gas/oil fills.
No rhyme or reason to the pattern, up, down, either side, shotgun. The scope is good, I pulled it and swapped the Alpha 6 with it and the .22 hits hole in hole with the new scope albiet an inch to the right and up a quarter inch. I expected the POI to be different anyway.
Gonna have to pull it apart and tune this one like the other three I guess. :-\
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My DAR 177 should be here in a day or two.
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I apologize if I missed this, if it was mentioned earlier in these 58 pages, but what is your preferred recharge method for your DAR Gen II? Hand or electric pump? What brand/model? What other accessories do you feel you need for this particular gun? (I am thinking of taking the PCP plunge...)
Thanks,
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I apologize if I missed this, if it was mentioned earlier in these 58 pages, but what is your preferred recharge method for your DAR Gen II? Hand or electric pump? What brand/model? What other accessories do you feel you need for this particular gun? (I am thinking of taking the PCP plunge...)
Thanks,
In for coffee and a fresh chocolate chip cookie...
I use a SCBA bottle and fill to 20MPa (actually, 3000psi but as it cools, it settles on 20MPa). I fill my SCBA when it needs it from a Yong Heng compressor and I use a one way valve (check valve) to the tank so I can turn the compressor off and not let any air escape the tank.
I do this because I like to send several magazines down range in one sitting and to pump would defeat that workflow.
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I apologize if I missed this, if it was mentioned earlier in these 58 pages, but what is your preferred recharge method for your DAR Gen II? Hand or electric pump? What brand/model? What other accessories do you feel you need for this particular gun? (I am thinking of taking the PCP plunge...)
Thanks,
I use a GX CS3 PCP Air Compressor purchased on Amazon or a manual pump referred to by most of us here as the “China” pump . Not terrible to hand pump but I mostly fill with the 499.00 compressor. About three minutes from 1000 PSI to 3000, I never let it get below 1000 PSI.
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My Yong Heng was a couple dollars over $200.00 delivered, the second one was a little less, you can get set up for little money if you shop.
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My rifle came today, ups ran early yesterday and I missed them. But my spare magazine didn't come.
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Mine should be here tomorrow, they don't have extra .22 mags right now. I will order more when they come in.
I don't have the scope mount figured quite yet or have a compressor but soon.
We have access to steel air tanks from a F.D. setup but need a regulator and fill whip setup for extra capacity.
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Good luck with the scope mounting, that's one of the things they got wrong on the DAR.
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Good luck with the scope mounting, that's one of the things they got wrong on the DAR.
Why is the scope mount an issue for you? I've had no issues at all, do tell... :o
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Good luck with the scope mounting, that's one of the things they got wrong on the DAR.
I'm looking into an adapter from dovetail to pic rail. should work. Anyone with a better idea?
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Good luck with the scope mounting, that's one of the things they got wrong on the DAR.
I'm looking into an adapter from dovetail to pic rail. should work. Anyone with a better idea?
The issue will be the height of the magazine in finding an adapter that will clear the top.
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If the scope rings are the right height these adapters will eork fine, one piece adapters will not give mag clearence in most styles. https://www.amazon.com/WestHunter-Adjustable-Picatinny-Accessories-Riflescope/dp/B08CBSSBRS/ref=pd_sbs_3/136-9399196-5098717? (https://www.amazon.com/WestHunter-Adjustable-Picatinny-Accessories-Riflescope/dp/B08CBSSBRS/ref=pd_sbs_3/136-9399196-5098717?)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51pN+NFaEwL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
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You guys and gals are not helping with my addiction. I currently don't own any PCP guns, but this one looks like a good choice.
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If the scope rings are the right height these adapters will eork fine, one piece adapters will not give mag clearence in most styles. https://www.amazon.com/WestHunter-Adjustable-Picatinny-Accessories-Riflescope/dp/B08CBSSBRS/ref=pd_sbs_3/136-9399196-5098717? (https://www.amazon.com/WestHunter-Adjustable-Picatinny-Accessories-Riflescope/dp/B08CBSSBRS/ref=pd_sbs_3/136-9399196-5098717?)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51pN+NFaEwL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
I guess I'm not seeing the need for an adapter if a scope is wanted to be mounted on a DAR, I have seen 34mm, 30mm, 1" x 11mm rings all over the place. Even red dots are available in native 11mm mounts.
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I used the UTG adaptors just because I already had some and already had some nice Weaver tactical Picatinny 30mm rings . I use the same on a few .22 Target rifles , I always seem to have more Weaver and Picatinny rings in my boxo rings than 3/8 / 11 mm.
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On the topic of waxing the bore
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438)
One of these days I am going to try it. I keep forgetting to pick up Johnsons paste wax when I am somewhere that sells it. For now I only use Ballistol to clean my air rifles. My DAR .22 gets about five hundred shots before going goofy. One pull through wet patch with Ballistol the more dry ones till clean, shoot about five hundred and repeat.
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You don't need an adapter to mount a traditional scope, but you have very few good options for mounting any other type of optic. It should have a longer rail forward of the magazine and it should be an actual rail, not a dovetail. The red dots that fit dovetails tend to be pretty crappy. After you add an adapter or tall enough rings to clear the magazine you need a cheek riser because the optic is too high. If you want to use a magnified prism sight you don't have any options to adjust it for eye relief because they barely fit the short dovetail behind the magazine.
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You don't need an adapter to mount a traditional scope, but you have very few good options for mounting any other type of optic. It should have a longer rail forward of the magazine and it should be an actual rail, not a dovetail. The red dots that fit dovetails tend to be pretty crappy. After you add an adapter or tall enough rings to clear the magazine you need a cheek riser because the optic is too high. If you want to use a magnified prism sight you don't have any options to adjust it for eye relief because they barely fit the short dovetail behind the magazine.
Sometime it is a blessing to have a big head, no worries here. I can shoot a PU Mosin Sniper rifle without issues ;)
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I think a dovetail is a thing of the past. More and more AGs have a pic rail or both styles. I only have an old .22 LR semi-auto that uses a dovetail. I have 1" and 30mm rings in my parts bins and I prefer a pic rail. Good enough reason for me. I have seen the collapsable adapters on the last page, probably what I will try first. Thanks guys.
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I put pic rail adapters on both .22 ,and .25 Dar gun's that I have ....
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Where is the US distributor located? Or is it abroad?
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Where is the US distributor located? Or is it abroad?
You mean DAR? Ontario, California.
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I just bought the .25 for my wife. She is a lightweight wonderful woman, however can't cock or manage a heavy rifle offhand. The bigger issue on some is the small bolts are hard to grasp and loading is an issue with a scope. 6 pounds, side lever with ample leverage, wood stock, and darn good looks, I bought it. Threw a scope on it, couple of shots to zero. Darn, it was hard to give it to her. (LOL). Guess we are going to have to buy more. It is shooting a real rifle without the cost and constant cleaning. Oh yea, she loves it. :)
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That was a perfect pick for your wife .... You see now this is the perfect time , for you to get a ,25 Dar for yourself .. ;D.. The .22 Dar is a lot of fun also because it shoots the cheap crosman hp's very good - at 6 bucks , and change for a 500 count tin you really can't beat it unless you cast pellets ...
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My DAR.25 barrel was extreamly dirty! Took awhile to get clean patches.
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My DAR has been perfect. No leaks whatsoever, bought before DAR started going through and replacing o-rings. Should I bother getting it "updated" either by swapping o-rings and polishing the poppet end myself or sending it back to DAR? I think having a kit of correct o-rings on hand is fine so maybe I'll give them a call.
Does anybody make an aftermarket cocking lever with a vertical bar at the end to make it easier to grab? That, and the chunkiness of the stock, are my only real complaints. Otherwise I've been very happy with mine.
Call Joe, he will send you a pack of rings gratis. No aftermarket lever yet but making one with a bar is on my winter machining list. I need to ask Joe about getting a spare...
I talked to Joe when I order and he sent an extra set of O rings.
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I would love to get a DAR .22 but the last thing I want to do is have to take it apart, and trouble shoot, a NEW AR that I don't know. Isn't that part of getting a new anything they should be ready to use?
I'm considering a .25 in the future but may wait or go for a brand that works from the begining. The talk of a new model makes me wonder if a fix is part of the gen IIs future or a gen III is in the works. Do you guys see DAR getting better recently? Several people have given up and went elsewhere. I don't see most of the other brands having this kind of problems, and yes I've read all of this.
I guess I don't agree with the statement of, "I don't see most of the other brands having this kind of problems." as there are posts every day about problems with every AR made, from FX to AEA, Benjamin etc.
This may be true with your rifle, but my .25 was very inaccurate out of the box. Still not good.
The DAR had one issue... O-rings. That has been solved and they are now working out of the box as intended.
I own three and a fourth is coming soon.
Are these perfect? Nope, none are. They are darn good though. And since I am a tinkerer at heart, I tune the trigger and velocity to my liking.
But don't let me change your mind, everybody has a preference.
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We talked about these last night in the chat. I would kill for more all metal mags.
I saw you guys starting on DAR but I had to run.... bottom line, is it worth it?
On mags alone, there is no dicscussion. DAR on the left and Gauntlet on the right (same mag as the mrod).
The DAR mags straight load, no flipping or winding, just push a pellet in and turn far enough for the next one and so on...
I DO like these DAR magazines!
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On the topic of waxing the bore
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438)
One of these days I am going to try it. I keep forgetting to pick up Johnsons paste wax when I am somewhere that sells it. For now I only use Ballistol to clean my air rifles. My DAR .22 gets about five hundred shots before going goofy. One pull through wet patch with Ballistol the more dry ones till clean, shoot about five hundred and repeat.
I also will try this. I have the wax in my garage.
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In my experience USPS tracking sometimes never updates. I shipped my Grandson some Birthday presents a few weeks ago and according to USPS it never left Houston but it did get to it's destination.
I 've had these problems with FedX and USPS also.
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In my experience USPS tracking sometimes never updates. I shipped my Grandson some Birthday presents a few weeks ago and according to USPS it never left Houston but it did get to it's destination.
I 've had these problems with FedX and USPS also.
I used to order bulk .22LR from CMP but they only ship FEDEX , once the delivery guy shot putted two cases(10,000 rounds)on to my patio. I try not to order from anyone that only uses FEDEX anymore.
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My .22 keeps shooting like nobody’s business. Will get a .177 next. Will be calling Joe about an O-ring set and to order another magazine. Back in March I emailed about another O-ring set a few times but they VERY busy at the time.
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My .177 is only so-so right now, I have yet to do anything other than mount a scope and fill it with air. I'll get to cleaning the barrel, crowning, adjust the regulator in due time but firewood takes priority right now.
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Never looked into these before, but wow! For the price and fearures (especially the unchoked barrel...been looking for a rifle with this) this one just got placed high on my list.
What's the attraction with an unchoked barrel? Offhand I'd think it might be an interest in shooting slugs with the gun. (from most reports I've seen or read some choked barrels handle slugs well and others don't) The word is from most reviews I've seen (yes I also had a more than passing interest in the DAR Gen II) is that the DAR does not particularly like slugs though it delivers excellent accuracy with pellets.
Is that it or is there anything else in particular that turns you off about choked barrels. I'm interested so don't get me wrong I'm not trying to get under anybody's skin.
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Don't know if I have link posting permissions yet, but let's give this a try... DAR 22 Gen2 review from Airguns & Pesting Ch. at the link.
"youtu. be /HBHFj5ISES8"
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David, thanks for your response. I may have been too general with that post, but even Wayne got a lemon recently, and can't get it fixed. I know DAR is trying to get back up to speed but I do feel that a consumer should get a functioning item no matter what you are buying. Maybe I should wait for a while and revisit this subject at a later time.
Thanks again
Jerry
Jerry,
It's ultimately a decision you have to live with so proceed cautiously.
@Wayne, when did you buy this one? Was it before Joe got in to them to change the O-rings?
I got it probably the 3rd week of November 2020, it was before they shipped them with different o rings I'm sure.
Just placed an order for a .25. Am I supposed to wait for them to call me for payment or am I supposed to call aimsport?
What part of Michigan are you from? Livingston county here.
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I got a call from them. I imagine they will call sometime after 0900 Kali time.
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I got a call from them. I imagine they will call sometime after 0900 Kali time.
Thanks man. Been a cpl days so I wasn’t sure. Hopefully today they will call.
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Dar 's phone # 909-923-2228 ask for Joe he handles the DAR stuff at Aim sports ....
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Dar 's phone # 909-923-2228 ask for Joe he handles the DAR stuff at Aim sports ....
Thanks man. They called today. I will have it soon. I hope it shoots FX 25.39 well as I have a bunch on the way too. Lol.
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Does anyone know if someone is making single shot trays for the .177 yet? Or even one that can be modified to work?
I've had this .177 for about a month now and think it is a pretty good valued rifle. My first.177 pcp and an accurate one!
Thanks for any advice on the sst.
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Does anyone know if someone is making single shot trays for the .177 yet? Or even one that can be modified to work?
I've had this .177 for about a month now and think it is a pretty good valued rifle. My first.177 pcp and an accurate one!
Thanks for any advice on the sst.
I haven't seen one yet but I would take one for all three calibers! ;)
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I got my .22 loading tray from forum member RDB He printed it He may make them in other sizes as well.
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne, I know that it's been a long time. When did you first order the part?
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I got my .22 loading tray from forum member RDB He printed it He may make them in other sizes as well.
Thank you but I have already checked with him and was a no go. So I guess we keep looking lol
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne that is good new's on that part .... I have the AEA bullpup .357 side lever 32inch barrel coming in tomorrow - this should be interesting with the long barrel compared to the 24inch on my standard AEA .357 Challenger , hoping to push heavier stuff at a higher FPS ...
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne, I know that it's been a long time. When did you first order the part?
It was back when the DAR II first came out, my gun never seen the woods.
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne that is good new's on that part .... I have the AEA bullpup .357 side lever 32inch barrel coming in tomorrow - this should be interesting with the long barrel compared to the 24inch on my standard AEA .357 Challenger , hoping to push heavier stuff at a higher FPS ...
Dan my 22 Challenger is unreal for a 22, it's right up in the 22long energy at 70fpe, right now it's really almost too powerful and I may back it down some, do a chrony test first before I sight it in at the woods.
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne that is good new's on that part .... I have the AEA bullpup .357 side lever 32inch barrel coming in tomorrow - this should be interesting with the long barrel compared to the 24inch on my standard AEA .357 Challenger , hoping to push heavier stuff at a higher FPS ...
Dan my 22 Challenger is unreal for a 22, it's right up in the 22long energy at 70fpe, right now it's really almost too powerful and I may back it down some, do a chrony test first before I sight it in at the woods.
Wayne when they make the .22 challenger a side lever i will buy one for sure ,i am thinking ... ;D
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The part for my DAR II is finally on it's way in the mail system, it's actually been picked up by USPS and it's on it's way here 8)
Wayne that is good new's on that part .... I have the AEA bullpup .357 side lever 32inch barrel coming in tomorrow - this should be interesting with the long barrel compared to the 24inch on my standard AEA .357 Challenger , hoping to push heavier stuff at a higher FPS ...
Dan my 22 Challenger is unreal for a 22, it's right up in the 22long energy at 70fpe, right now it's really almost too powerful and I may back it down some, do a chrony test first before I sight it in at the woods.
Wayne when they make the .22 challenger a side lever i will buy one for sure ,i am thinking ... ;D
The .22 Challenger is very easy to cock and a great trigger in comparison to the other bolt action Challengers. I was quite surprised to see how low of a serial number that mine has, plus the fill probe is much better than my 357 Challenger. I'm thinking that the hammer spring on it is much lighter in comparison. There seems to be a big bore rage going on these days and I think that's what AEA has mainly been zeroed in on. I might give the Pellet Shop a call soon to see if there's been anyone installing a regulator in either the .22 or the .25 because these guns would REALLY benefit having a regulator in them. 2400psi would be plenty for a good powerful shot coming from my .22 I'm sure. When I was talking with Bin from the Pellet Shop he said that before the demand for smaller calibers wasn't as great as it has been lately. The serial number on mine is only 948 which is very low in comparison with 30 cal and greater.
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Well after over 11 months from buying my gen2 DAR 25 cal I finally will be able to go out in the woods with it for the first time, the part came in the mail yesterday, I installed it and it's still holding good right where I filled it to at the time of typing in this reply, I'll probably be using my 34.5 grain pellets in it to begin with and I've also got some slugs I sized for it originally to try in it. I haven't put any over the chrony with it yet but I soon will to finally see where I've got the reg set in it, originally the reg was set way to high so I backed it off and that's when the gun failed, started leaking 11 months ago. I checked the website for magazines and the only ones they have available are for .177. I did pm a guy on Airgun Nation that has three mags, probe and 3 sets of o rings but he didn't specify if it was for Gen1 or Gen2. ???
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Does anyone know if someone is making single shot trays for the .177 yet? Or even one that can be modified to work?
I've had this .177 for about a month now and think it is a pretty good valued rifle. My first.177 pcp and an accurate one!
Thanks for any advice on the sst.
Earlier in this thread someone said that they modified a Marauder single shot tray, and it wasn't too difficult.
You might try skimming back through.
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Well I got the regulator at about max for how the hammer spring is adjusted, it's getting 10 shots averaging about 50fpe (max53.5fpe min49.3fpe) I haven't done any port work on any DAR's so if anyone has any pointers for better efficiency I'm all ears. I'm heading out to the woods with my Challenger soon, gonna get breakfast on the way. 8)
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Well I got the regulator at about max for how the hammer spring is adjusted, it's getting 10 shots averaging about 50fpe (max53.5fpe min49.3fpe) I haven't done any port work on any DAR's so if anyone has any pointers for better efficiency I'm all ears. I'm heading out to the woods with my Challenger soon, gonna get breakfast on the way. 8)
My DAR will be here Friday. Do you know how many turns from turned all the way down it was to get to the 50 fpe you are at now?
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I feel really tempted to buy a DAR .22.
But, the DAR seems to be quite similar to the Nova Liberty and I already own 4 Nova Liberty rifles.
Also, the Nova Liberty comes with 2 magazines and 1 single shot tray.
So, I guess I will not buy a DAR :)
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The DAR is a much better built gun.
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The DAR is a much better built gun.
In what way is the DAR a better built gun?
If you are referring to the wood stock, Nova Liberty also came with a wood stock for about the same price as the DAR.
The DAR and the Nova Liberty have the same 1 year warranty and almost no part availability.
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Well I got the regulator at about max for how the hammer spring is adjusted, it's getting 10 shots averaging about 50fpe (max53.5fpe min49.3fpe) I haven't done any port work on any DAR's so if anyone has any pointers for better efficiency I'm all ears. I'm heading out to the woods with my Challenger soon, gonna get breakfast on the way. 8)
My DAR will be here Friday. Do you know how many turns from turned all the way down it was to get to the 50 fpe you are at now?
I really can't remember exactly where I started reg and hammer spring adjustments at however I'm going to try backing off on the hammer spring because I could be possibly wasting air. Originally what happened in my case was the regulator seemed to be adjusted too high when I first got the gun, when I took it apart to adjust the regulator it wouldn't hold air after that because the internals had gotten messed up.
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The DAR is a much better built gun.
In what way is the DAR a better built gun?
If you are referring to the wood stock, Nova Liberty also came with a wood stock for about the same price as the DAR.
The DAR and the Nova Liberty have the same 1 year warranty and almost no part availability.
They both have their faults in my opinion. All I can say is my Liberty never really failed me ever except for a slow leak however I did buy the gun from ATI as a parts gun, the weak point in the Liberty is the poppet that comes with them, I replaced the poppet in mine with a PEEK poppet made by duy and haven't had a bit of problem since, it's a great little slug shooter with my cast NOE slugs. DAR's on the other hand when you degas them to adjust the regulator I don't recommend using the degas screw because from what I understand there's a little metal ball that seals them but it will deform if you snug it up too tight and then you're in for trouble. It will mess up the valve body for sure so from now on if I degas mine it will be by loosening the gauge instead. They might have corrected that part since I bought mine over 11 months ago and was never able to use the gun at all til I finally got the part after waiting 11 months to get it. I doubt I'll ever buy another DAR but I would buy another Liberty before I'd buy another DAR. I do like the design of the DAR however there's gotta be a better way to make a degas option for it. The gun that's in my signature is more durable by far than either the Liberty or the DAR and Mike now has drop in regulators that you can put in them that are working very well in the Xisico Sentrys. I've put that Sentry through He$$ since I've owned it and its still an excellent hunter.
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Mine dose not have the ball and it dose not seem to lose air from there.
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Matt I never had that problem with the Gen1's they never leaked from the degas screw but from what I was told over the phone it's something they changed from the 1st to 2nd Gen but they never gave me a reason why they did it that way.
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Does anyone know if there is a single shot tray for the DAR2? I like to single load pellets quite often, and the loading port is a little snug for my fingers.
I just took a Marauder single shot tray that I had laying around, and using a dremel, I shaved about 1/8" off the front and bottom and it works. As a bonus, it also fits in my Prod, so now I've got a single show tray for both.
[/qu
ote] Thought I read that! Thanks BT and others-going to order one now
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Matt I never had that problem with the Gen1's they never leaked from the degas screw but from what I was told over the phone it's something they changed from the 1st to 2nd Gen but they never gave me a reason why they did it that way.
Wayne ... Joe told me to just barely crack the bleed screw , and let it very slowly bleed down when degassing the gun ,so it keeps every thing in place Joe said , and don't get it over tight so it deforms that little steele ball it seals off on .... That bleeder system they use could be improved for sure - Joe said a while back they were looking for a harder ball bearing to use in place of the old one ... I guess next time I call him I will see what progress he made ....
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Dan I'm still undecided about what I'll be doing with this gun but I know that I'll definitely take it to the woods, sight it in and try it out finally.
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I simply shoot mine down until it falls off the reg then pull the air tube out and press the valve rod against a clean wood surface and blow off the remaining pressure. EZPZ
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I simply shoot mine down until it falls off the reg then pull the air tube out and press the valve rod against a clean wood surface and blow off the remaining pressure. EZPZ
That is probably the best way to degas the DAR ... I use that method to degas my older Korean guns just popping the valve off till there is no air coming out ...
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
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I got my DAR in .22 a few months ago and a few weeks ago had to send it in as it was losing air from the fill port. I just got it back last week and thought I would share my experience...limited as it is. Note: I am new to PCPs and air guns so i am not good at reading and compensating for wind. The Dar has a UTG Accu-Shot 4-12 mounted on it.
All groups are five shots:
Most of my groups have been shot at 25 yards as this will be my short range plinker. I have a Daystate Huntsman for hunting and 50-yard shooting.
25 Yard Groups
First 27 groups with Crosman Domed Premier averaged .46"
12 groups with JSB 15.89 Exact averaged .41"
Next 14 groups with the Crosman pellets averaged .44"
For s*&^s and giggles I shot some groups at 50 yards.
5 groups with the Crosman's went 1.08"
5 groups with Baracuda Match 21.14 went .99"
5 groups with JSB 15.89 Exact went .73"
5 groups with Air Arms 16.0 went .81"
I do better with the Huntsman so I know the DAR is not as accurate but it is also less and 1/3 the price. I have fired 213 groups with the Daystate at 50 yards and averaged .76" with all pellets tested. Best pellets in it are the JSB Exacts with 10 groups averaging .58"
For the money, I am happy with the DAR...assuming the air leak is fixed and does not return. I have not 'tweaked" it as I am a bit unsure about the process and worried about screwing up a gun under warranty. It would be OK for hunting up to 50 yards IMO.
The trigger on the DAR needs work. I have injected Lubriplate into it and that helped a lot but still not where I would like it.
This thread was a huge reason I bought the DAR so a big thank you for all those who contributed.
Now I need to find a decent PCP pistol in .177
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!
I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!
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Firewalker
When you have that reg apart, you might want to note the washer spec's, for thickness and other dimensions........... ;),
Thanks,
Don
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Firewalker
When you have that reg apart, you might want to note the washer spec's, for thickness and other dimensions........... ;),
Thanks,
Don
Don, Sad to say but I was rocking out and playing with the DAR when you posted, it's all back together with significant tweaking done while it was apart. It's an easy breakdown and I will be adjusting the reg again as I get to the magic 750 fps for the .177 Daisy pellets.
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!
I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!
Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.
I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.
The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!
The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... :o
In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.
I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.
Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!
I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!
Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.
I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.
The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!
The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... :o
In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.
I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.
Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.
Thanks! I just got done with the trigger and some of the same issues you found. I replaced a few o'rings, as it developed a leak from my last session of disassembly, reassembly. Now for some chrony work!
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I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers, what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.
The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.
That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!
Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!
I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!
Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.
I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.
The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!
The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... :o
In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.
I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.
Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.
Wow! The trigger is so nice now after a little bit of polishing, a dab or two of moly and only a little frustration. And I think I got my reg figured out. I'm getting about 30 shots at around 850 fps with 18.5 grain pellets and 880 with Barracuda 15's
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Great pics and info David.
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David, we appreciate all your help throughout this thread.
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You are all welcome! I probably enjoy tinkering as much as shooting so it's my pleasure to have a hand in teardowns and tweaking.
That said, I have trimmed a coil off the hammer spring and I have gone from an average of 954fps to 863fps but I want to get these down to 800 or less to keep pellets from spiraling. Groups are about 1" at 10 yards right now, that is just unacceptable so I have taken the shroud off to see if I have any clipping... nope, all is good. I also shimmed the LDR centering fitting with a 2 thou shim, tightened up the LDR nut 1/4 turn and reassembled the shroud.
Gassed up to 3000psi, loading a mag with Spanish Daisy flat nosed wadcutters. Lets see...
Meh, down to 3/4" groups now. Some improvement but not much. Next up is a complete tear-down, bottom out the reg at 1/2 turn off the bottom, remove the barrel and do a lead removal soak, ammonia wash (yes, I know, no need to counsel me, I've been doing this for a few decades) and carb cleaner followed with a PTFE wash to season the barrel.
It takes a good 200-300 rounds to foul the barrel, then a good HOPPE's cleaning and I should be ready to see what the real potential is. I will turn the crown and polish it for 0 runout as well.
The truly frustrating issue is accuracy, I shot a card with Spanish Daisy Flat-Nosed at 10y with the DAR (top) and one of my Daisy 880's (bottom) with zero modifications, just a scope. They are very similar in spread but at X10 the price, the DAR should hit hole-in-hole IMHO.
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Created: 11-28-2021 12:02:11 PM
Description: DAR .177 12.28.2021 CPHP 7.9gr
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
24 943 0.00 0.00
23 959 0.00 0.00
22 958 0.00 0.00
21 958 0.00 0.00
20 961 0.00 0.00
19 953 0.00 0.00
18 959 0.00 0.00
17 960 0.00 0.00
16 958 0.00 0.00
15 957 0.00 0.00
14 955 0.00 0.00
13 956 0.00 0.00
12 962 0.00 0.00
11 953 0.00 0.00
10 956 0.00 0.00
9 957 0.00 0.00
8 952 0.00 0.00
7 957 0.00 0.00
6 952 0.00 0.00
5 956 0.00 0.00
4 957 0.00 0.00
3 949 0.00 0.00
2 965 0.00 0.00
1 910 0.00 0.00
Average: 954.29
StdDev: 10.44
Min: 910
Max: 965
Spread: 55
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Saved Chrono Group - 11-28-2021 12:25:37 PM
David Gustafson
Sun 11/28/2021 1:31 PM
Created: 11-28-2021 12:25:37 PM
Description: DAR .177 12.28.2021 CPHP 7.9 gr
Temp: 47 °F
BP: 1028.00 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
27 833 0.00 0.00
26 838 0.00 0.00
25 837 0.00 0.00
24 834 0.00 0.00
23 832 0.00 0.00
22 831 0.00 0.00
21 826 0.00 0.00
20 828 0.00 0.00
19 818 0.00 0.00
18 829 0.00 0.00
17 826 0.00 0.00
16 815 0.00 0.00
15 824 0.00 0.00
14 822 0.00 0.00
13 817 0.00 0.00
12 816 0.00 0.00
11 819 0.00 0.00
10 825 0.00 0.00
9 805 0.00 0.00
8 954 0.00 0.00
7 955 0.00 0.00
6 960 0.00 0.00
5 953 0.00 0.00
4 957 0.00 0.00
3 958 0.00 0.00
2 954 0.00 0.00
1 946 0.00 0.00
Average: 863.41
StdDev: 60.77
Min: 805
Max: 960
Spread: 155
Shots 1-8 were before cutting the hammer spring, 9-27 are with 1 coil trimmed off.
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I don't own a .177 but I did notice that my groups went haywire after one teardown and found that the barrel band had turned and my barrel was pulled fairly hard to the left. I did see a little sign of clipping on the end cap, but nothing like I would have expected from how far off center the barrel was. If they use the same shroud and end cap for the .177 and .22 you may not clip at all with the. 177. I spent longer than I would like to admit figuring it out what changed between teardowns.
I'm going to play with removing the barrel band and tensioning the barrel with the baffle cap. I tightend it down some and noticed a marked difference in barrel/shroud rigidity.
Thanks again for the pictures of the regulator!
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David as much experience as you have taking apart ,and modifying the Dar guns - you could start a Dar repair ,and tune bizz ! ;) no kidding , I had my .22 Dar apart to fix leaks , then returned for warranty work , over reg leak with out the right size o ring for repair plus bleeder screw messing up , now that is fixed it is holding air perfect shooting around 906 fps inside of a dime at 50 yards most of the time with cphp's , and does good with my cast NOE pellets also ...
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David as much experience as you have taking apart ,and modifying the Dar guns - you could start a Dar repair ,and tune bizz ! ;) no kidding , I had my .22 Dar apart to fix leaks , then returned for warranty work , over reg leak with out the right size o ring for repair plus bleeder screw messing up , now that is fixed it is holding air perfect shooting around 906 fps inside of a dime at 50 yards most of the time with cphp's , and does good with my cast NOE pellets also ...
I WISH!!!
I work in a health system and Omnicor has us pretty much locked down (yes, I know it's not here.... yet) and I would LOVE to have time to work on airguns but not until this bada$$ cold virus sneaks' off like SARS did. I had a lot of fun today!
@Snatchcan, Yes, the barrel band is a bugger that I got a taste of early on and am very careful to let it center by itself before snugging the grubs down. Also, no signs of clipping at all, in fact, I REMOVED the shroud and fired a full card of bulls with similar results with the Spanish Daisy wadcutters. These are pretty good pellets too, my daisy 880 shoots bulls with them most of the time at 10m though not so much this evening...
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It might be as simple as the barrel doesn't like those pellets.
I ran every kind of 177 pellet that I have (the list is long)through my DAR a couple weeks ago and it "liked" almost everything I put through it, but it definitely loved a couple.
Here are some pics.
I am planning on starting a new thread on my progress with my 177 DAR once I have a little bit more to report.
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What pellets did it 'love'? I tried several, some no longer made, others are unobtanium so I stayed with the three I can get and have stock of but they all shoot 3/4-1" groups, nothing at all smaller. I also can see them spiral (CPHP's) in flight so I really think the twist it too fast for 8gr pellets.
Ill be looking for 10gr pellets and NSA slugs as well with hopes I can get groups to come in.
The Olympics shoot at 600fps so I may really drop speed to see what I can do but I may also reach out to Joe and swap barrels.
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H&N Sniper Medium. (I know you can't get them anymore)
Field Target Trophy
Baracuda Match 4.50 and 4.51
RWS Meiserkuglen and Super Mag
JSB/Air Arms 10 gr and 8.44
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Thank you, I'll add some AA to my pyramid order.
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I purchased my DAR on Black Friday a year ago, and almost exactly a year to the day it has started leaking. Takes about a day and a half to go from full to ~1000 psi, and then stays at 1000 psi and doesn't seem to leak any further. Any tips on where I should start looking for the leak?
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The reg o'rings have been an issue on several people's guns, or at least from I read in this thread and several other. I had a leak on the fill o'ring. If you disassemble the tube there is a small countersunk screw with an o'ring on the fill end. If you have the o'ring pack that came with the gun there should be a couple in there.
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The reg o'rings have been an issue on several people's guns, or at least from I read in this thread and several other. I had a leak on the fill o'ring. If you disassemble the tube there is a small countersunk screw with an o'ring on the fill end. If you have the o'ring pack that came with the gun there should be a couple in there.
I had an issue with that one as well but a little Lubri-film on it and a light 'snug' got it sealed again.
Most of my leaking has been due to the poppet seat where dust or other debris get lodged in the space between and cause 'unstoppable' leaks. It's important to get the seal kit from Joe first and then see if you can determine the general location.
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The reg o'rings have been an issue on several people's guns, or at least from I read in this thread and several other. I had a leak on the fill o'ring. If you disassemble the tube there is a small countersunk screw with an o'ring on the fill end. If you have the o'ring pack that came with the gun there should be a couple in there.
I had an issue with that one as well but a little Lubri-film on it and a light 'snug' got it sealed again.
Most of my leaking has been due to the poppet seat where dust or other debris get lodged in the space between and cause 'unstoppable' leaks. It's important to get the seal kit from Joe first and then see if you can determine the general location.
I thought of that too but the way his gun started holding pressure again at 1000psi makes me lean towards the fill or reg o'rings.
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Put just a dab of soap over the reg bleed hole on the air tube to see if that's where it's coming from.
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Thanks everyone. It appears to be leaking out of the barrel, so I'm guessing it's a poppet issue. Before I tear it apart, I emailed DAR to see if they have orings available, as mine did not come with any, and I'd like to have some on hand in case I need them while it's apart.
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With mine the poppet issue was cured by lapping the poppet against the valve face using a cordless drill at slow speed.
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I told Joe at Dar to drill a hole through a steel plate use ultra fine sandpaper on the plate , and spin the poppet from the opposite side with a cordless drill , and he did that said it worked perfect , and Joe said he was going to do this to all the guns they were sending out that they had to replace the defective o rings on .... so the new guns they are releasing should be good to go now ...
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The reg o'rings have been an issue on several people's guns, or at least from I read in this thread and several other. I had a leak on the fill o'ring. If you disassemble the tube there is a small countersunk screw with an o'ring on the fill end. If you have the o'ring pack that came with the gun there should be a couple in there.
I had an issue with that one as well but a little Lubri-film on it and a light 'snug' got it sealed again.
Most of my leaking has been due to the poppet seat where dust or other debris get lodged in the space between and cause 'unstoppable' leaks. It's important to get the seal kit from Joe first and then see if you can determine the general location.
I thought of that too but the way his gun started holding pressure again at 1000psi makes me lean towards the fill or reg o'rings.
At least those are easy to determine which is leaking, hole on the side of the air tube and a hole inside the fill port.
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Thanks everyone. It appears to be leaking out of the barrel, so I'm guessing it's a poppet issue. Before I tear it apart, I emailed DAR to see if they have orings available, as mine did not come with any, and I'd like to have some on hand in case I need them while it's apart.
If you cant get any joy from DAR, I do have a few kits of rings, I have not used a single one yet so I can share. ;)
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With mine the poppet issue was cured by lapping the poppet against the valve face using a cordless drill at slow speed.
Same here! Worked perfectly!
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I told Joe at Dar to drill a hole through a steel plate use ultra fine sandpaper on the plate , and spin the poppet from the opposite side with a cordless drill , and he did that said it worked perfect , and Joe said he was going to do this to all the guns they were sending out that they had to replace the defective o rings on .... so the new guns they are releasing should be good to go now ...
Perhaps but I had issues with the poppet stem catching on the guide on this last one. I will be going back inside both the others to check for any binding.
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I told Joe at Dar to drill a hole through a steel plate use ultra fine sandpaper on the plate , and spin the poppet from the opposite side with a cordless drill , and he did that said it worked perfect , and Joe said he was going to do this to all the guns they were sending out that they had to replace the defective o rings on .... so the new guns they are releasing should be good to go now ...
Perhaps but I had issues with the poppet stem catching on the guide on this last one. I will be going back inside both the others to check for any binding.
Same here with mine when I got it over a year ago. The brass inset the stem goes through had sharp edges that would catch on the stem and give inconsistent velocity. Just deburred it and polished it up with some mothers mag polish.
Same with the poppet. Mothers mag polish or even baking soda based toothpaste between the poppet and valve face with a drill works great.
As far as the bleed screw.... a small piece of thick cross section oring beneath the ball bearing will seal it right up. You can even source small rubber bb's that would work well.
Recently moved and put this one up for sale a while before moving and never got any takers. Just went down the basement and pulled it from the box. Pressure right on full where I left it. May have to find a scope to put back on it. Handles well!
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I told Joe at Dar to drill a hole through a steel plate use ultra fine sandpaper on the plate , and spin the poppet from the opposite side with a cordless drill , and he did that said it worked perfect , and Joe said he was going to do this to all the guns they were sending out that they had to replace the defective o rings on .... so the new guns they are releasing should be good to go now ...
Perhaps but I had issues with the poppet stem catching on the guide on this last one. I will be going back inside both the others to check for any binding.
Same here with mine when I got it over a year ago. The brass inset the stem goes through had sharp edges that would catch on the stem and give inconsistent velocity. Just deburred it and polished it up with some mothers mag polish.
Same with the poppet. Mothers mag polish or even baking soda based toothpaste between the poppet and valve face with a drill works great.
As far as the bleed screw.... a small piece of thick cross section oring beneath the ball bearing will seal it right up. You can even source small rubber bb's that would work well.
Recently moved and put this one up for sale a while before moving and never got any takers. Just went down the basement and pulled it from the box. Pressure right on full where I left it. May have to find a scope to put back on it. Handles well!
Nice looking DAR Rod.. I should have seen that before I just bought the 1358.
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Thanks Bill. It had a few things to be taken care of but it's a fine shooter. I slimmed the stock because it was just too chunky for my liking. Polished the barrel, Turned down the reg, made an ssg and she gets 50 shots on the reg with Crosmans at 900 fps. Glad it didn't sell now.
A 177 set up at about 15 fpe would be a nice rig also.
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Thanks Bill. It had a few things to be taken care of but it's a fine shooter. I slimmed the stock because it was just too chunky for my liking. Polished the barrel, Turned down the reg, made an ssg and she gets 50 shots on the reg with Crosmans at 900 fps. Glad it didn't sell now.
A 177 set up at about 15 fpe would be a nice rig also.
Gonna do that tomorrow morning! ;)
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Rod
Very nice, by any chance do you have any photo's of the SSG for your Dar?
Tia,
Don
Polished the barrel, Turned down the reg, made an ssg and she gets 50 shots on the reg with Crosmans at 900 fps.
A 177 set up at about 15 fpe would be a nice rig also.
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Super simple setup. Just a hole on the end cap. T nut, screw and nyloc nut. Used a heavier spring. I run just a very slight gap. The hammer is fairly light. I'm pretty sure this is the spring I'm using? But everything is still packed up from the move and can't be positive.
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I did have to open the rear of the stock though.
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Rod
Thank you.
Don
ps, I see I can use a flat wire hammer spring also, as they are .410" dia etc.
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Saweet! Thanks Rod. I will give this a shot as well.
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Saweet! Thanks Rod. I will give this a shot as well.
It gained me 8-10 extra shots a fill. Definitely make for a nice snappy shot cycle.
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Posting useful info and pics I found at a two year old DAR thread:
Here' some more pics of the innards,
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/reg%201_zpscaa5rybn.jpg)
The Regulator looks to be well built and is externally adjustable for output pressure.
I will be adjusting this for a little greater output pressure before reassembly. Unfortunately, I do not yet have a test rig yet for setting output pressure, so I wont know the actual pressure I change it to, and will just have to rely on chrony readings and shot strings. Maybe Bob will be able to apply some mathematical wizardry once I get those numbers to compare to the first shot strings.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/reg%202_zps3pfmuwfi.jpg)
The Plenum is a simple straight piece of anodized(?) aluminum.
It measures .830 ID and is 1.570 long
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/DAR%202_zps0uwbuurm.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/DAR%203_zpskzio9ce4.jpg)
ok, so I've take the trigger assembly apart to determine if I can do some polishing of contact points. Hopefully some improvement can be made to the feel and weight of the second stage. Since I have not yet seen any good pics of the parts laid out, I took these to share with all who may be considering doing the same thing.
Removal of the Cocking Lever Pivot Pin
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%204_zpseqscryzu.jpg)
Pic showing Pivot Pin removed, and small shim (non factory part) used to reduce some of the floppy motion the Cocking Lever was experiencing. The shim was made from a blown burst disk.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%203_zpsfkohgwnp.jpg)
Remove Trigger Pivot Pin and the Trigger slides out the bottom of the Trigger Assembly.
Note placement of the attached Spring. Also note the thin factory Shims on each side of the Trigger Blade.
Do not lose these, ... you will need them to prevent the trigger from being too wobbly.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%209_zpskptssanp.jpg)
You must also remove the Pin that is just forward of the Trigger Pivot Pin.
This is to allow clearance for removal of the Sear Catch.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%2010_zpswxoetwts.jpg)
Next remove the Sear Catch Pivot Pin, and remove the Sear Catch.
Be careful not to stretch the little springs.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%2012_zpsrkl2uvmt.jpg)
Next remove the rear plug from the mono block and the Hammer Spring.
I dont have a pic of that, but it's pretty basic. The rear Plug just unscrews, and the trigger spring comes right out.
Next position the hammer so that You can see the Cocking Pin screwed into the Brass Bolt Body.
Remove this pin from the Brass Bolt Body using appropriate Allen Wrench. Loosen the Allen Screw locatedin the rear of to Hammer to allow the Sear Catch Pin to be removed from the Hammer. Remove the Sear Catch Pin and slide the Brass Bolt and the Hammer through the back of the mono block.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%202_zpsvzmrtbge.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%201_zpsxxxdwbhe.jpg)
Trigger Parts Orientation,
Now ready for a little detailed cleanup and polishing job of all mating contact surfaces
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%208_zpsf0gauxpa.jpg)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%207_zps3lzmltk2.jpg)
Thanks for the pics of the internals.... It looks like the regulator fits inside the plenum a short distance, maybe 0.2"?.... That would result in a plenum volume of about 12 cc.... Do you have any idea how much volume there is inside the valve, or the back of the regulator, which would add to that plenum?.... That's pretty small for a .25 cal, IMO....
Bob
Yeah, I'd guess about 0.2 .
Unfortunately, I put the gun back together tonight before seeing this post, so I cant measure it right now.
I'll be shooting it tomorrow to test out my polish/lube job on he trigger, as well as my adjustment to the reg.
No doubt, I'll be taking it back apart after this weekends testing, so I'll try to get you those measurements next time it comes apart. I did feel the plenum was a tad small too, once I saw it.
Here's some picks of the valve before I put it back together.
Upon removal of the valve, I did find the Brass Pin Guide to be loose, as well as the Retaining Cap for the Poppet Spring (on the opposite end of the valve). I will be using some blue loctite on reassembly to prevent this happening again.
The exhaust port is pretty big, measuring .223 - .224 . Next time I have it apart,I will do a little Dremel work to radius the bottom of the port to the throat of the valve.
The valve slides into the monoblock, it i sealed with 2 o-rings, and is held in place with two indexing screws on the lower side. One screw doubles as the Stock Mounting Lug. This makes the port alignment to the monoblock a easy no-brainer. The port in the monoblock meas. .223, and the port in the barrel meas. .221
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%201_zpsdpkvnor9.jpg)
The hole on the "shoulder" of the valve is a pressure bleeder for Degassing. It has a grub screw plug.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%203_zpssjatjjdc.jpg)
Nothing exotic going on inside, standard Poppet and Spring.
I will say, the Poppet Spring in this thing is SERIOUSLY STIFF ! ! ! (too stiff IMO), but we'll mess with that at a later time.
The Retainer Cap (valve inlet) has 4 (small) holes. I think they can be opened up a little more, which we'll also do later.
I did notice the Retainer Cap does not have any sort of pin/groove/shoulder/etc. to keep the Poppet Spring on center. I see this as a potential problem as it allows the Poppet Spring to go off-center, and thus, applying a side-load to the head of the Poppet.
This could be something that needs to be addressed in future models.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%204_zpsgrlfuywx.jpg)
Here's a nice little feature,
The hammer tube in the monoblock, is "lined" with a hard plastic/delrin(?) sleeve. This prevents the steel hammer from touching the aluminum monoblock. Pretty cool, I think. No internal "marring" or damage to the monoblock, and very slippery slide for the hammer.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/valve%202_zps5hiyahqz.jpg)[/URL]
This is a great post with pics of the trigger mechanism.
I'm bumping it back up to the top for guys who want to mess with their triggers.(and for when I want to as well ;) )
Keep in mind that these are from a Gen 1, but I assume the trigger group is the same...???
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The regulator seems to have changed some, smaller with no nut and the stem is pretty must internal now.
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I think that the regulator shown is for a .25, if my memory serves me.
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I think that the regulator shown is for a .25, if my memory serves me.
I have all 3, .177, .22 and .25, the regs are now all the same (externally).
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Is there a difference internally? If so what have you noticed?
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On a gen 1? My gen 2 reg looks like the one Firewalker posted.
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Mine are all Gen II and I don't see any differences with the naked eye nor would I think there is. They all supply regulated air to sit in the plenum (same size) until it's dumped into the TP. The reg then opens and recharges the plenum. The adjustment screw was definitely set differently but the rest looks to be the same.
(nevermind the black screw, that's just there to pull out the assembly)
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Mine are all Gen II and I don't see any differences with the naked eye nor would I think there is. They all supply regulated air to sit in the plenum (same size) until it's dumped into the TP. The reg then opens and recharges the plenum. The adjustment screw was definitely set differently but the rest looks to be the same.
(nevermind the black screw, that's just there to pull out the assembly)
I would guess they are all the same and just set at different pressures for each caliber. The reg setting was written right on the side of my 25 dar. Just can’t remember what it was. I assume the 22 maybe is just set slightly lower.
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Mine are all Gen II and I don't see any differences with the naked eye nor would I think there is. They all supply regulated air to sit in the plenum (same size) until it's dumped into the TP. The reg then opens and recharges the plenum. The adjustment screw was definitely set differently but the rest looks to be the same.
(nevermind the black screw, that's just there to pull out the assembly)
I would guess they are all the same and just set at different pressures for each caliber. The reg setting was written right on the side of my 25 dar. Just can’t remember what it was. I assume the 22 maybe is just set slightly lower.
1525 for my .25
1225 for my .22
1025 for my .177
They sure do like 25? :o
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I got confirmation this afternoon that the .22 breech o-rings are 1.5X5.5X8.5. I do go ahead and purchase a bag full of 70D o-rings so if you are in need of 1-2, let me know and I will send you a couple gratis. If you cant feel the probe hitting the edge of the o-ring when closing the bolt, it's time to change it out.
Happy to help you all. Back to playing with my DARlings. 8)
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With mine the poppet issue was cured by lapping the poppet against the valve face using a cordless drill at slow speed.
If it is practical you might be better off lapping valve seats "without using" power tools. Out in the real world in critical use situations valve plug and seats are almost always lapped through rotation by hand. Too easy to do too much, too quickly or develop galling or produce an "out of round" condition in the seating area.
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With mine the poppet issue was cured by lapping the poppet against the valve face using a cordless drill at slow speed.
If it is practical you might be better off lapping valve seats "without using" power tools. Out in the real world in critical use situations valve plug and seats are almost always lapped through rotation by hand. Too easy to do too much, too quickly or develop galling or produce an "out of round" condition in the seating area.
Perhaps but it has worked fine for many of us as well. ;)
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2000+ pellets later, the .22 DAR needed a new chamber O-ring. Luckily, I had anticipated the need ahead of time and ordered a hundo of 1.5x5.5mm O-rings and yes, they fit just fine... ;D
I decided to oil the probe and close it overnight to set the O-ring and establish a flat. Ill shoot it tomorr..... prolly next weekend. ::)
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One thing always bugged me about the DAR, only one action screw and my air tube was not floated. I finally did something about it. Friday I bedded the action on my Suhl 150 .22LR olympic style rifle. I always waste some Belzona metal epoxy when I do one so I prepped the DAR. Hogged out the fore end plugged cracks,creases and holes in the receiver with modeling clay then painted it with grease. Both jobs turned out great. Wish I had took pictures but I almost never take time to do it. The DAR now has 90% contact receiver to stock out to the flange of the air chamber and the air tube is floated. Got a little hairy removing it after a twenty-four hour cure, love taps with a rubber mallet to the trigger guard got it out. Before it shot Crosman domes better than CHPS but I get no fliers with them now and the shot cycle sounds “right”.
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One thing always bugged me about the DAR, only one action screw and my air tube was not floated. I finally did something about it. Friday I bedded the action on my Suhl 150 .22LR olympic style rifle. I always waste some Belzona metal epoxy when I do one so I prepped the DAR. Hogged out the fore end plugged cracks,creases and holes in the receiver with modeling clay then painted it with grease. Both jobs turned out great. Wish I had took pictures but I almost never take time to do it. The DAR now has 90% contact receiver to stock out to the flange of the air chamber and the air tube is floated. Got a little hairy removing it after a twenty-four hour cure, love taps with a rubber mallet to the trigger guard got it out. Before it shot Crosman domes better than CHPS but I get no fliers with them now and the shot cycle sounds “right”.
I have both pillar and epoxy bedded PB's but would love to see a pic of the DAR being bedded. I am nearly 'perfect' with CPHP's now, imagine if I could tighten it up even more!? :o
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Thought about pillar bedding but just installed a washer between the stock and the action screw. I might just figure out the photo posting thing one day. For now all I could take is the completed job. I did take great care prepping before bedding. Clay in the Allen heads then small pieces of duct tape over them . Masking tape ,one layer around the “ boss” on the air chamber. I got a little on both sides of the trigger housing and this keeps everything square . Years ago I stuck a Suhl 150 receiver in a stock, had to put the whole thing in the chest freezer overnight to get it out. since that episode my prep work is my involved.
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I got a present from Aimsports yesterday (thank you Joe), there were 2 .177 barrels for me to try out since my current barrel is such a stinker!
I did the swap but the shots are erratic and it sounds as if there isn't enough hammer to get the poppet off the seat after the first 5 or so. I am thinking regulator now since the hammer spring nut isn't making any difference to the shot.
I'll pull it all apart tonight and will update you all on the issue and repair.
P.S. The barrel bores look much better than the one it came with but it still took dozens of patches to get the barrel "clean".
I am going to take a guess that the stem is wonky and wont push or the regulator has locked up.
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Following- I have a .25 DAR that after pulling lever back and push forward then pull trigger now only makes a clank noise- will not fire. Have not had apart let but may try- spoke to Joe and he said if I pay to ship back to him he will look at it. Bought it used.
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Following- I have a .25 DAR that after pulling lever back and push forward then pull trigger now only makes a clank noise- will not fire. Have not had apart let but may try- spoke to Joe and he said if I pay to ship back to him he will look at it. Bought it used.
Hang on to yours, we may have the same issue. I'll get into mine tonight and post the results.
Couple of questions: has it ever shot for you? Is there pressure in the tank? Have you had it apart?
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rkrr, my guess is the poppet shattered. Same thing happened to my gen 1 rifle.
The back half of the poppet broke away but the stem was still sealed to the remaining portion, thus it did not leak.
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rkrr, my guess is the poppet shattered. Same thing happened to my gen 1 rifle.
The back half of the poppet broke away but the stem was still sealed to the remaining portion, thus it did not leak.
I sure hope not. I'll find out tonight though and will share pix.
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Thanks for the info. Yes it shot maybe a full mag before it stopped and it still has over 2000 psi in it. I should also mention the seller sent me a complete air tube with valve assembly that is holding air. I may switch them this weekend and see if that corrects it and if so the I will degas the tube and take valve apart on broken one to see why.
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Well....
Not a DAR issue, it was a David issue. ::)
Here is the poppet stem and guide as I removed the air tube from the receiver. Notice the guide threads? You should not be able to see any threads at all when properly assembled. OOPS! :o
I cannot remember tightening the guide after I polished the stem and the guide backed out a little more every shot I took until it has blocked the hammer from striking the stem at all. You can see the guide fell off the assemble when I pulled the stem/poppet out, not threaded in at all! I reassembled it and tightened the guide appropriately, reassembled the air tube, charged it and reassembled the rest of the gun.
I did send 12 pellets down range and had 2 very mysterious fliers (clipping?) so I will pull the shroud tomorrow and see if the fliers go away, if not, I'll ask Joe for a shroud and LDC in exchange.
Of the pellets that stayed together, the group was very small and should get a lot tighter since this was a clean, un-fouled barrel with 0 pellets through it.
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One thing always bugged me about the DAR, only one action screw and my air tube was not floated. I finally did something about it. Friday I bedded the action on my Suhl 150 .22LR olympic style rifle. I always waste some Belzona metal epoxy when I do one so I prepped the DAR. Hogged out the fore end plugged cracks,creases and holes in the receiver with modeling clay then painted it with grease. Both jobs turned out great. Wish I had took pictures but I almost never take time to do it. The DAR now has 90% contact receiver to stock out to the flange of the air chamber and the air tube is floated. Got a little hairy removing it after a twenty-four hour cure, love taps with a rubber mallet to the trigger guard got it out. Before it shot Crosman domes better than CHPS but I get no fliers with them now and the shot cycle sounds “right”.
CJ, I noticed last night that the contact area is so tiny with the receiver alone. Do you feel that you still have enough durability with the assembly?
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(http://url=https://postimg.cc/qzskknR6][img]https://i.postimg.cc/qzskknR6/AFA9-B8-D7-0-CFB-4-E99-B867)So far so good, I did bed about one inch of the tube. When I have time I’ll try again to use postimage, it’ is giving me 403 forbidden.
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bedding photos
(https://i.postimg.cc/sM0YPX1B/IMG-2524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sM0YPX1B)
(https://i.postimg.cc/svHmmKND/IMG-2525.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svHmmKND)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WDLMYy6j/IMG-2527.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDLMYy6j)
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I got a present from Aimsports yesterday (thank you Joe), there were 2 .177 barrels for me to try out since my current barrel is such a stinker!
I did the swap but the shots are erratic and it sounds as if there isn't enough hammer to get the poppet off the seat after the first 5 or so. I am thinking regulator now since the hammer spring nut isn't making any difference to the shot.
I'll pull it all apart tonight and will update you all on the issue and repair.
P.S. The barrel bores look much better than the one it came with but it still took dozens of patches to get the barrel "clean".
I am going to take a guess that the stem is wonky and wont push or the regulator has locked up.
I've had the brass fitting on the valve back out and bind before. Causing similar symptoms.
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Danke! I'll be looking at 5 thou clearance for the float but I'll keep it off the air tube all together unless the groups don't change.
I can do the dollar bill trick that way in the summer to check wood warpage.
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I got a present from Aimsports yesterday (thank you Joe), there were 2 .177 barrels for me to try out since my current barrel is such a stinker!
I did the swap but the shots are erratic and it sounds as if there isn't enough hammer to get the poppet off the seat after the first 5 or so. I am thinking regulator now since the hammer spring nut isn't making any difference to the shot.
I'll pull it all apart tonight and will update you all on the issue and repair.
P.S. The barrel bores look much better than the one it came with but it still took dozens of patches to get the barrel "clean".
I am going to take a guess that the stem is wonky and wont push or the regulator has locked up.
I've had the brass fitting on the valve back out and bind before. Causing similar symptoms.
Did you threadlock it?
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David, I'm glad to hear that's all it was. FWIW I did apply threadlocker to the guide on both of my rifles and they have never backed out. I actually left each of them a fraction of a turn shy of fully tight to alleviate any potential of putting a lateral load on the valve stem.
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Danke! I'll be looking at 5 thou clearance for the float but I'll keep it off the air tube all together unless the groups don't change.
I can do the dollar bill trick that way in the summer to check wood warpage.
All said and done with the action screw at 25".lbs I have a min of .030" clearance.
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Hello nervoustrigger and firewalker. Hope you have a nice Holiday. Took original air tube out and looks ok. Install spare tube and still does the same. Clunk noise when pull trigger and feel small puff of air oud back of receiver by lever. Also now at times will not engage hammer when pull lever need to pull several times. Both valve stems look fine no mushrooming on ends- brass guide is in flush. Spoke to Joe at DAR and he said may be bolt for hammer loose but need to remove trigger assembly to get to it. Have you had this apart and do you know if there is any info on how to remove trigger? Any and all help and suggestions are appreciated.
Thank you
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Hello nervoustrigger and firewalker. Hope you have a nice Holiday. Took original air tube out and looks ok. Install spare tube and still does the same. Clunk noise when pull trigger and feel small puff of air oud back of receiver by lever. Also now at times will not engage hammer when pull lever need to pull several times. Both valve stems look fine no mushrooming on ends- brass guide is in flush. Spoke to Joe at DAR and he said may be bolt for hammer loose but need to remove trigger assembly to get to it. Have you had this apart and do you know if there is any info on how to remove trigger? Any and all help and suggestions are appreciated.
Thank you
Gonna need a new breach O-ring there.
Does the stem protrude from the guide?
Is the nut over the poppet return spring backed out enough?
Can you push the stem all the way in? The spring can bind and not allow the poppet to be pushed off the seat.
The trigger is removed by tapping the pins out toward the spline ends, you need the correct punch and a padded vice is a great idea as well. I have not pulled the bolt yet, I haven't had a need.
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Both tubes I can tap the stem and it will release air. Both stems stick out the same. I dont think the hammer comes forward far enough to strike the stem. Do you know of any trigger disassembly videos?
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Both tubes I can tap the stem and it will release air. Both stems stick out the same. I dont think the hammer comes forward far enough to strike the stem. Do you know of any trigger disassembly videos?
No, sorry.
Just take a picture first of the assembly and remove the pins. It's not a complicated trigger.
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Wil do. Thank you
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Wil do. Thank you
If you get stuck, we will walk you through it.
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Here are a couple of photos of the parts arrangement, courtesy of Ron (Gertrude):
(https://i.imgur.com/QVVOfIE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/II4awPq.jpg)
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Jason, any pictures of the hammer removal?
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Jason, any pictures of the hammer removal?
I checked my pictures and no I don't, but you're 90% of the way there once you have the trigger out. Just two pins to remove to get the hammer out. To remove the first one (the one that points down and latches against the sear), loosen the grub screw in the back of the hammer. The second one is the pin in the bolt...reach up between the trigger plates to remove it. Out comes the hammer.
A little tip: before reinstalling the sear pin, drill or grind a slight dimple for the grub screw to seat into. That pin is apt to fall out otherwise.
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I was able to replace the .177 barrel with one from Aimsports and that one was beautiful inside but still shot like a cut off shotgun. I pulled that one and installed a second one from Joe, (Thank You Joe!) and am starting to get the groups to come in. One thing to mention: I got some really bad clipping due to the oversize on the shroud. I had to tape all the cones on the moderator together to keep them centered to eliminate the clipping.
I am going to send the barrels back this week and swap out the shroud with the .22 and see if the cones fit better like the .25 and .22.
Yes, I am still in LOVE with my DAR's, she just woke up with a case of bad breath, a little Listerine and she is kissable once more! :P :-*
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Jason, any pictures of the hammer removal?
I checked my pictures and no I don't, but you're 90% of the way there once you have the trigger out. Just two pins to remove to get the hammer out. To remove the first one (the one that points down and latches against the sear), loosen the grub screw in the back of the hammer. The second one is the pin in the bolt...reach up between the trigger plates to remove it. Out comes the hammer.
A little tip: before reinstalling the sear pin, drill or grind a slight dimple for the grub screw to seat into. That pin is apt to fall out otherwise.
Got this post saved, than YOU for the info, it helps a lot! :D
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Hello. I removed all but the pin in the bolt-does it unscrew or pull out? Also the hammer seems to slide loosely until it gets close to the valve then gets tighter- need to use a rod to push any farther. Is that normal?
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The pin in the bolt is threaded in. If memory serves, it has a hex recess for an Allen key but it might be a slot for a slotted screwdriver.
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Hello Nervoustrigger. I disassembled the rifle again but that pin in the bolt is stripped either from factory or from previous owner? I inspected everything again and all looked ok except the valve pin stuck out about 4 mm on 1 tube and about 4.5 mm on the second. The tube that was 4.5 mm I tapped with a mallet several times and stayed at 4.5 mm. Reassembled rifle and now works. Do not know what I changed- any ideas? Maybe a bad poppet in the tubes?
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Hello Nervoustrigger. I disassembled the rifle again but that pin in the bolt is stripped either from factory or from previous owner? I inspected everything again and all looked ok except the valve pin stuck out about 4 mm on 1 tube and about 4.5 mm on the second. The tube that was 4.5 mm I tapped with a mallet several times and stayed at 4.5 mm. Reassembled rifle and now works. Do not know what I changed- any ideas? Maybe a bad poppet in the tubes?
Richard, can you post a picture of that for us?
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Hopefully this works- this is the tube with the valve stem only sticking out 4 mm but if you look close the brass fitting is screwed in further than flush. Do not know if this has anything to do with it. Already assembled rifle with other tube and seems to work fine. Does anyone make peek poppets for these? Also is the .25 a good candidate to convert to .30 in your opinion? I have 3 .25 and 2 .22 and a .177. They are nice rifles.
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Hopefully this works- this is the tube with the valve stem only sticking out 4 mm but if you look close the brass fitting is screwed in further than flush. Do not know if this has anything to do with it. Already assembled rifle with other tube and seems to work fine. Does anyone make peek poppets for these? Also is the .25 a good candidate to convert to .30 in your opinion? I have 3 .25 and 2 .22 and a .177. They are nice rifles.
Good question! I sure would lime to see what you come up with.
The stem and guide look fine.
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So your stem only protrudes about the same? Can not understand what could have been wrong- both tubes hold air forever.I am going to call Joe and see if he can sell or send me a couple poppets. I need to find where I can get a .30 barrel from. I can sleeve the probe with brass. I converted a .22 Akela to .25 but FuzzyGrub was undertaking the same project so I am waiting to get all his final numbers before I cut springs and tune. Also I am converting 1 of my Kratos .22 into a .177 waiting for Crosman to get the barrel and probe in stock. I will post as I convert my DAR to a .30 if I can find a barrel. I would also need to come up with a magazine also. Thank you for all your help. Have a great Holiday.
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Regarding stepping up in caliber, the .25 cal plenum is somewhat anemic as is. Unless your goal is a low and slow .30 cal, consider bypassing the regulator and tuning it as an unregulated rifle. In which case you will almost certainly want to make a PEEK poppet so the hammer will be able to crack open the valve at the elevated pressure...you know, without having to swap the hammer spring with one from the suspension of a Ford F250 :)
A longer-than-OEM barrel will help you make velocity...which means either making a new shroud or using a more conventional LDC.
You already noted the bolt modification and what to do about a magazine. But do be advised a magazine in the space available is likely to be quite limiting of ammo choices in .30 cal.
One change begets another, which begets another, which...
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Thank you for the info. I would only shoot pellets as I have an AEA and Rainstorm (that was Will Piatt tuned) for slugs. Any idea who or where to source a barrel from?
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Thank you for the info. I would only shoot pellets as I have an AEA and Rainstorm (that was Will Piatt tuned) for slugs. Any idea who or where to source a barrel from?
I am not aware of any barrels that are plug-n-play in the DAR receiver. I was going to get a barrel from Lothar Walther, the .30 runs $150.00 from them right now. https://www.lothar-walther.com/gun-barrel-blanks/airgun-barrels/?p=1&o=1&n=12&f=6480 (https://www.lothar-walther.com/gun-barrel-blanks/airgun-barrels/?p=1&o=1&n=12&f=6480)
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Thank you for the link. I would still need to have a machine shop do it up. Worth thinking about.
Thank you
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I know this thread has been dormant for 2 months or so but I wanted to update some information on my .177 and the journey it has taken to get where we are today. I also want to share some good news going forward.
I started out with a DAR in .22 and fell in *love! I then bought another in .25 and felt I had a great stable of guns for plinking and pest control. The .177 beckoned from afar to join it's sisters in the gun rack so I ordered one up from Joe at Aimsports and thought I had the Trifecta!
Sadly, this was not to be. The .177 was horribly inaccurate, 4" groups at only 10m and burping poppet wasted as much air as a shot did all while reducing pellet speed. I though I just needed to find the right pellet or it really needed an SST to get the BUUURRRPP to stop. I pulled the hammer spring out, clipped off a loop and made an SST for it, reassembled it and sure enough, the bounce had stopped but the speeds were all over the place and accuracy didn't get any better, still minute of grapefruit at 10m.
Of course, I had to open the gun up to explore and find out what was wrong and how to fix it. When first pulling the valve section out, I noticed that the stem retaining nut had backed out but since I had already changed the regulator setting, I thought perhaps I had forgotten to tighten it but no, this was only the first time the nut would come loose.
The poppet stem was very tight in the retaining nut so off to the lathe to sand and polish it, burnished the poppet seat and got a good seal. Now the speeds leveled out but the groups were still very much a shotgun pattern. By that time, I had received a couple barrels to try from Joe but both of them shot as bad or worse than the original so I set to cleaning and polishing them all up.
After getting a very wide assortment of pellets from the classifieds here, I tried to find one the DAR liked best but they all spread wide and there was no real winner. On a whim, I took the barrel off and rolled in on a sheet of glass and I found it was very bent, I took it over to the lathe and measured overall runout and it was nearly 0.25" out!
I thought about the others and one was out 0.040" and the one that came with the gun was just under 0.010" out. I can live with that so I spent a couple hours cleaning this barrel with every chemical I had (and I have a few) and then I finished with water based cleaners. I than used polishing compound followed by Flitz and then a swipe with silicone oil.
Reassembled it all and was hoping for a nice group but that was just not to be, still shotguning...
Following the same train of thought, I took the shroud off and rolled that on glass as well, almost 0.320" of runout front to back, Banana! I then loaded the magazine with CPHP's and it shot a .45" group! HMMMMMM?
I found severe clipping on the cap and as luck would have it, I found a stock, shroud, baffles and cap in the classifieds and that shroud has a very slight S curve that had an end to end runout of perhaps 0.005". Since the baffles and cap were for a .25, I was in luck with an oversize set to see if I could dial in the gun now that I found all the issues.
I went through all the pellets again and found that the RWS Meisterkugeln were by far more consistent than any other pellet and the 2nd place winner was (obvious to me) was the CPHP. I put the new shroud and baffles in and shot a card last Sunday, I got a 200/200 with 13 bullseyes! Outstanding!
I was Golden... until I shot some targets on Monday, the hammer bounce was back. :-[
I pulled the gun apart and wouldn't you know it, the poppet stem retaining nut has come all the way out and was getting slammed into the stem. The threads were damaged but a trip through a 10x1.5 nut straightened them out and after a drop of blue locktite, i reassembled it, removed the SSG and installed a spring from McMaster Carr.
Now, the gun shoots well, not as well as the .22 but close. It will get another good cleaning and then a few tins of pellets and I hope it will settle down even more.
Bottom line: I would buy the .22 and .25 again without hesitation, they are both great shooters and have plenty of power for any critter takedown.
* I had a leaker on the first round and sent it back. The new one was good to go! ;D
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Wow Firewalkwe I give you Two thumbs up for the diligence!! Great Job ! They are good guns my 22 will one hole at 25yds . my 25 has taken a little love lol
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Wow Firewalkwe I give you Two thumbs up for the diligence!! Great Job ! They are good guns my 22 will one hole at 25yds . my 25 has taken a little love lol
I am indeed fortunate that I have all three working as well as they do, for $300 guns, I'll take the tinkering and work in trade for accuracy. The .25 piles pellets up on the same spot at 50y, the .22 will do hole in hole like a bench rest gun up to 50y with no wind.
I am planning to do a complete teardown of any new DAR's when I get them. I'm no reviewer or influencer by any means but I do understand quality machining, good design and function. I can also spot shoddy quality assurance and am willing to call it out. My reviews will be brutal, I will buy them, no gifts, just like the last three, my cash.
In the end, I still recommend the .22 and the .25, get some o-rings and shoot to your hearts content! I have yet to see any magazines approach the quality of the DAR mags except for the JTC guns.
The MAX is my next gun, period. The thumbhole stock and twin gauges along with the generous laver vertical handle speak to me! ;)
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Strange, how one gun can be such a bugger to get shooting good. The only DAR I Bought to date is the .177, and it has been a NSA slug shooting laser, along with most pellets I tried.
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Mine was in .25 and was a shooter.
If the 'cudas' get pushed to the back burner I may have to get a DAR in .22.
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Strange, how one gun can be such a bugger to get shooting good. The only DAR I Bought to date is the .177, and it has been a NSA slug shooting laser, along with most pellets I tried.
I have never tried a slug in my DAR, I wonder how they will shoot? The real issue is that of QA and a clean/straight barrel, miss those and its awful. Its got to be easy to flush a barrel after cutting the rifling, swab with light machine oil and assemble. >:(
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Reckon how long it would take to do that to a run of 10,000 of them?
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This has probably been mentioned before, but I will ask anyway.
Who manufacturers the DAR? SPA? Xisico? Someone else?
They look very similar to the JTS guns.
My .25 and .177 are good shooters.
I have had to work through some issues with them, but I am happy with them.
Might have to snag a .22 when the Gen 3's come out.
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Reckon how long it would take to do that to a run of 10,000 of them?
From a manufacturing standpoint, it could be as easy as another step for the CNC operator after they pull the barrel out of the final Cut operation or after the barrel is blued in the final rinse operation they could run a swab. I bet it would add no more than 10 seconds to the operation
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This has probably been mentioned before, but I will ask anyway.
Who manufacturers the DAR? SPA? Xisico? Someone else?
They look very similar to the JTS guns.
My .25 and .177 are good shooters.
I have had to work through some issues with them, but I am happy with them.
Might have to snag a .22 when the Gen 3's come out.
I never asked Joe about who made the guns but I don't think they are made by the same company.
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The race is on for me. Which one will become available first? The Standard airacuda or the genIII dar?
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The race is on for me. Which one will become available first? The Standard airacuda or the genIII dar?
I'm gonna guess it will depend on which one clears the Port of LA first! ;D ;)
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What do you think of the new stock? Still have a bunch of finishing left. The air tube is completely floated, only touches the receiver.
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Interesting.
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Interesting.
Lol! In Minnesota, "interesting" is the kind way of saying, "That there is the ugliest example of hideous I have ever seen!" ;D ;)
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It reminds me of my kral stock but more extreme than it.
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Interesting.
Lol! In Minnesota, "interesting" is the kind way of saying, "That there is the ugliest example of hideous I have ever seen!" ;D ;)
You're not wrong but I do like it!
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I wanted to lighten it up a LOT and really thin out that wrist so that I could get a comfortable grip. I just followed the curve of the wrist all around, curving back and forth.
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I like it.
Kind of hope the gen 3 will have more of a pistol grip stock.
Either a thumb hole or something like the Avenger or origin in shape.
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I like it.
Kind of hope the gen 3 will have more of a pistol grip stock.
Either a thumb hole or something like the Avenger or origin in shape.
I hope so too! That log is just too cumbersome to hold comfortably.
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The fore grip is about as thick as it should be on yours I feel the way it came to be too thick and dorky looking.
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The fore grip is about as thick as it should be on yours I feel the way it came to be too thick and dorky looking.
I have more to take off the front as well but the shoulder just can't take it right now so I stained it and threw some water based poly on it for now until I get better. The front is perfectly square right now, I have to decide on the taper and the radius I want on the bottom sides. A little flat for bench work but enough curve to hold comfortably in my hand.
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I shoot off a bipod or a rest thingy so the size in hand isn't an issue for me its all aesthetics. Even as is I have some paws on me so the bulk really isn't an issue it just looks so "dang" dorky.
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I shoot off a bipod or a rest thingy so the size in hand isn't an issue for me its all aesthetics. Even as is I have some paws on me so the bulk really isn't an issue it just looks so "dang" dorky.
In the field, like this afternoon, I shoot off hand at pests (Starlings showed up today) so the wrist has to fit my hand. On the bench, I side fire, just the palm against the stock and my pointer on the trigger. If I do it right, I dont imprint my heartbeat and I can breathe through the shot even though I am pressing into my shoulder.
The looks are OK for me but if I could get over the price, I would grab a rifle-stocks.com/laminated_blanks, blank for a thumbhole stock.
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Ergonomics really play a large role in how you are able to shoot. But then there is the I have a 300 dollar gun is it really worth a BA stock?
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It has a cool sci-fi look that's different from a Halo tacticool sci-fi look. I'd buy a gun that looked like that.
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I have 3 thumbhole blanks in the classifieds. :)
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I have 3 thumbhole blanks in the classifieds. :)
Why yes, you do! Just can't shell out the cash for them.
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I wanted to lighten it up a LOT and really thin out that wrist so that I could get a comfortable grip. I just followed the curve of the wrist all around, curving back and forth.
So how much weight came off?
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This thread is WAY too long for me to catch up on. Regardless, heard good things about the DAR. They have been out of stock every time I have looked at them. Unfortunately, this will probably not change.
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This thread is WAY too long for me to catch up on. Regardless, heard good things about the DAR. They have been out of stock every time I have looked at them. Unfortunately, this will probably not change.
Yes, they are coming, Gen lll is due in May or there about for sale. I'm hoping to have on in hand to do a complete tear-down on and get measurements for all components. I'm not associated with Aimsports or any affiliate and will buy them just like everybody else but I will be "camping" outside the front door hoping to be first in line!
TOTAL Fan-Boy here!!! ;) ;)
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I wanted to lighten it up a LOT and really thin out that wrist so that I could get a comfortable grip. I just followed the curve of the wrist all around, curving back and forth.
So how much weight came off?
The .22 with the standard stock and an Alpha 6 scope weighs 9 pounds exactly, swapping stocks, it weighs in at 8 pounds, 3.4 oz.
A savings of 12.6 oz and more is coming off with a goal of a full pound when all is said and done. The goal is an 8# or less, hunting gun with scope and a full mag.
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This thread is WAY too long for me to catch up on. Regardless, heard good things about the DAR. They have been out of stock every time I have looked at them. Unfortunately, this will probably not change.
Yes, they are coming, Gen lll is due in May or there about for sale. I'm hoping to have on in hand to do a complete tear-down on and get measurements for all components. I'm not associated with Aimsports or any affiliate and will buy them just like everybody else but I will be "camping" outside the front door hoping to be first in line!
TOTAL Fan-Boy here!!! ;) ;)
David, I am a fan as well... but until I see one...I am going to hold off...My .25 is able to pick off dandelions at ~50 yards with no trouble.
I'll be watching VERY intently for the next version.
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What do you think of the new stock? Still have a bunch of finishing left. The air tube is completely floated, only touches the receiver.
Very nice. Was the overall balance of the gun affected much?
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What do you think of the new stock? Still have a bunch of finishing left. The air tube is completely floated, only touches the receiver.
Very nice. Was the overall balance of the gun affected much?
Not really, I tried to keep the removal even. The gun is barrel heavy brand new, I would like to add 8oz to the buttstock after I get done with shaping.
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I have been working on the .177 lately, getting it dialed in, tightening groups etc, I am at 108 pellets per fill and probably have a little more 'gas' left but 9 full mags is enough for me on a fill going from 3000 to 1500 psi.
10m groups are at .25 center to center and a 100 shot card shows that as well, I would like to trim that down to .177 or less before I am done I am shooting RWS Meisterkugeln 8.2 gr and will switch over to CPHP on the next card to see how they are performing.
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The DAR Gen ll is still available... well, there is one in the classifieds if anybody is interested, she is a beaut and shoots 25gr Kings like a dream!
The .177 is coming along well, I will be JB pasting and polishing the bore this week to tweak the groups a little but she is almost ready to shoot the 200/200 targets I was doing with the .22. She really likes CPHP's at 750 fps, higher or lower, she opens up a lot.
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Hi, I bought a gen 2 as my first pcp a few months ago after reading through the totality of this long, I long chain (and it was a bit of a roller-coaster of a read).
I'm now looking to get an adapter to put a silencer on it. Anyone now where I can pick one up at and what the sizing is?
By the way I love the gun and am very glad I picked it up. Being my first pcp I don't have much to compare it to but it blows my old break barrel out of the water.
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You can pick up an adapter from DonnyFL for the DAR.
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Thanks, easy enough, just put my order through. I could have sworn I remember people talking about having to special order them but I suppose with the length of this thread that could have been from quite a while ago.
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Well, I sold my last DAR Gen 2 rifle, I still have both of my Gen 3 rifles. No regrets, great guns, great accuracy.
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What are the differences between Gen II and Gen III versions? I’ve read thru the last 20 pages on this topic hoping someone might have talked about this. I may have missed a post though. I have a Gamo swarm maxxim Gen 2 and have never shot a PCP. It seems like the DAR is quality at an excellent price point for entry into the PCP realm.
Dow
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What are the differences between Gen II and Gen III versions? I’ve read thru the last 20 pages on this topic hoping someone might have talked about this. I may have missed a post though. I have a Gamo swarm maxxim Gen 2 and have never shot a PCP. It seems like the DAR is quality at an excellent price point for entry into the PCP realm.
Dow
Side by side, the G2 & G3 are similar but the G3 has a larger plenum, a new side lever with a vertical handle, a brand new trigger group that is miles ahead of the G2, a 1/2" threaded barrel end (shroud actually) for moderators, picatinny rail for 21st century optics, 8mm QD built in to the air tube and the gauge has been moved from the suicide position to under the forestock.
The barrels are accurate on both the G2 & G3 though the .25 needed a little more polish than the .22 G2 did.
The G3 gun barrels arrived clean and took nearly zero polishing, a very nice change.
Now, put the new JTS Airacuda MAX on the table and look closely, they are virtual clones with just a few differences; second guage on the plenum, screw-in barrel, different segments on the lever handle, a different trigger safety.
Other differences may be hiding inside but we have not seen a teardown yet.
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The .177 is on its way to a new home, all the spare parts went with her, she got a brand new OEM hammer spring and hammer spring cap plus a spare barrel clamp.
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Anyone have a .22 ATI Nova Liberty poppet they want to get rid of? I'd like 2 if possible? My Nova Liberty has a slow leak through the barrel and need on if I can find!?
Thanks!
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Holy cross-link Battman! ???