DAR Gen II is now available

[Snatchcan]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

[Firewalker]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!

[Snatchcan]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!

I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!

[Nvreloader]

Firewalker

When you have that reg apart, you might want to note the washer spec's, for thickness and other dimensions........... ,

Thanks,
Don

[Firewalker]

Firewalker

When you have that reg apart, you might want to note the washer spec's, for thickness and other dimensions........... ,

Thanks,
Don

Don, Sad to say but I was rocking out and playing with the DAR when you posted, it's all back together with significant tweaking done while it was apart. It's an easy breakdown and I will be adjusting the reg again as I get to the magic 750 fps for the .177 Daisy pellets.

[Firewalker]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!

I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!

Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.

I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly  and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.

The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!

The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... 

In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.

I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.

Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.

[Snatchcan]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!

I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!

Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.

I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly  and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.

The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!

The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... 

In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.

I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.

Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.

Thanks!  I just got done with the trigger and some of the same issues you found. I replaced a few o'rings, as it developed a leak from my last session of disassembly, reassembly. Now for some chrony work!

[Snatchcan]

I've got a DAR 22. I took the reg apart (I'm a mechanic, I can't help but take EVERYTHING all the way apart) and stacked up the belleville washers,  what i thought was the same way I took it apart. There were 12 total and I stacked them like this ))(())(())((. Can anyone confirm this is the correct orientation? I ask because it seems like anything after a quarter turn CC on the reg and it becomes a non regulated gun. From the factory the set screw for the reg was about a quarter turn CC from flush.

The plan for this weekend is to tear down my new .177 and I will take a pix of the washer stack for you if I remember.

That would be awesome! Happy Thanksgiving!

Just got off work, opening a hopped beverage, looking through the gun rack and took the DAR to the vice, it's first on my list after filling the wood boiler in the morning!

I'm looking forward to what you find! I'll be patiently/impatiently waiting for your reply with a disassembled air tube on the kitchen table. Thanks again!

Yupper! ))(())(())(( is correct. I dont think you could switch them around too much since they fit pretty exact within the stem, the C ring wouldn't be able to snap in if they were expanding and you would see the slop if they were compacted.

I had LOTS of work to do on my .177, the sear was awful but the hammer looked pretty good so I did all the work on the sear and left the hammer spur alone except for a dollop of moly. I had to glue the washers on to the trigger sides just like the last three DAR's, coat the pins and holes with moly  and lube up the hammer slide with a drop of silicone oil.

The receiver body was the place I spent most of the time. The cocking handle pin was loose so I pulled it out and lubed up the pivot point, lubed up the chamber O-ring, removed the hammer spring, cleaned it up and backed it off about 1 turn to lower the hit on the poppet shaft. That's when I discovered that the poppet shaft was HORRIBLE!

The end was slightly mushroomed and rough so it bound in the guide when I pressed on the poppet. Probably the reason why I was getting only 30 shots per fill... 

In the lathe, got some 400 then some 800 paper on the shaft, got the mushroom out and after oiling it, I got it to slide really nice. Noticing the stem was sticking, I pushed on the stem once the tube was reassembled and discovered that the spring was binding from the factory so I backed that off as well.

I then set the regulator to 1-1/2 turn off the bottom, the hammer spring to 1 turn out from flush with the receiver and turned the poppet spring out 1 turn. I reassembled the air tube, and filled it to 200 bar. Got the stock back on and installed the scope, loaded the mags and fired at the target a few times.

Next, check the speed and fine tune with the hammer spring.

Wow! The trigger is so nice now after a little bit of polishing, a dab or two of moly  and only a little frustration. And I think I got my reg figured out. I'm getting about 30 shots at around 850 fps with 18.5 grain pellets and 880 with Barracuda 15's

[Tater]

Great pics and info David.

[singleshotcajun]

David, we appreciate all your help throughout this thread.

[Firewalker]

You are all welcome! I probably enjoy tinkering as much as shooting so it's my pleasure to have a hand in teardowns and tweaking.

That said, I have trimmed a coil off the hammer spring and I have gone from an average of 954fps to 863fps but I want to get these down to 800 or less to keep pellets from spiraling. Groups are about 1" at 10 yards right now, that is just unacceptable so I have taken the shroud off to see if I have any clipping... nope, all is good. I also shimmed the LDR centering fitting with a 2 thou shim, tightened up the LDR nut 1/4 turn and reassembled the shroud.

Gassed up to 3000psi, loading a mag with Spanish Daisy flat nosed wadcutters. Lets see...

Meh, down to 3/4" groups now. Some improvement but not much. Next up is a complete tear-down, bottom out the reg at 1/2 turn off the bottom, remove the barrel and do a lead removal soak, ammonia wash (yes, I know, no need to counsel me, I've been doing this for a few decades) and carb cleaner followed with a PTFE wash to season the barrel.

It takes a good 200-300 rounds to foul the barrel, then a good HOPPE's cleaning and I should be ready to see what the real potential is. I will turn the crown and polish it for 0 runout as well. 

The truly frustrating issue is accuracy, I shot a card with Spanish Daisy Flat-Nosed at 10y with the DAR (top) and one of my Daisy 880's (bottom) with zero modifications, just a scope. They are very similar in spread but at X10 the price, the DAR should hit hole-in-hole IMHO.

 

[Firewalker]

Created: 11-28-2021 12:02:11 PM
Description: DAR .177 12.28.2021 CPHP 7.9gr

Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
24 943 0.00 0.00
23 959 0.00 0.00
22 958 0.00 0.00
21 958 0.00 0.00
20 961 0.00 0.00
19 953 0.00 0.00
18 959 0.00 0.00
17 960 0.00 0.00
16 958 0.00 0.00
15 957 0.00 0.00
14 955 0.00 0.00
13 956 0.00 0.00
12 962 0.00 0.00
11 953 0.00 0.00
10 956 0.00 0.00
9 957 0.00 0.00
8 952 0.00 0.00
7 957 0.00 0.00
6 952 0.00 0.00
5 956 0.00 0.00
4 957 0.00 0.00
3 949 0.00 0.00
2 965 0.00 0.00
1 910 0.00 0.00
Average: 954.29
StdDev: 10.44
Min: 910
Max: 965
Spread: 55

[Firewalker]

Saved Chrono Group - 11-28-2021 12:25:37 PM
David Gustafson
Sun 11/28/2021 1:31 PM
Created: 11-28-2021 12:25:37 PM
Description: DAR .177 12.28.2021 CPHP 7.9 gr

Temp: 47 °F
BP: 1028.00 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
27 833 0.00 0.00
26 838 0.00 0.00
25 837 0.00 0.00
24 834 0.00 0.00
23 832 0.00 0.00
22 831 0.00 0.00
21 826 0.00 0.00
20 828 0.00 0.00
19 818 0.00 0.00
18 829 0.00 0.00
17 826 0.00 0.00
16 815 0.00 0.00
15 824 0.00 0.00
14 822 0.00 0.00
13 817 0.00 0.00
12 816 0.00 0.00
11 819 0.00 0.00
10 825 0.00 0.00
9 805 0.00 0.00
8 954 0.00 0.00
7 955 0.00 0.00
6 960 0.00 0.00
5 953 0.00 0.00
4 957 0.00 0.00
3 958 0.00 0.00
2 954 0.00 0.00
1 946 0.00 0.00
Average: 863.41
StdDev: 60.77
Min: 805
Max: 960
Spread: 155

Shots 1-8 were before cutting the hammer spring, 9-27 are with 1 coil trimmed off.

[Snatchcan]

I don't own a .177 but I did notice that my groups went haywire after one teardown and found that the barrel band had turned and my barrel was pulled fairly hard to the left. I did see a little sign of clipping on the end cap, but nothing like I would have expected from how far off center the barrel was. If they use the same shroud and end cap for the .177 and  .22 you may not clip at all with the. 177. I spent longer than I would like to admit figuring it out what changed between teardowns.

I'm going to play with removing the barrel band and tensioning the barrel with the baffle cap. I tightend it down some and noticed a marked difference in barrel/shroud rigidity.

Thanks again for the pictures of the regulator!

[Dan H]

David as much experience as you have taking apart ,and modifying the Dar guns - you could start a Dar repair ,and tune bizz !    no kidding , I had my .22 Dar apart to fix  leaks , then returned for warranty work , over reg leak with out the right size o ring for repair plus bleeder screw messing up , now that is fixed it is holding air perfect shooting around 906 fps inside of a dime at 50 yards most of the time with cphp's  , and does good with my cast NOE pellets also ...

[Firewalker]

David as much experience as you have taking apart ,and modifying the Dar guns - you could start a Dar repair ,and tune bizz !    no kidding , I had my .22 Dar apart to fix  leaks , then returned for warranty work , over reg leak with out the right size o ring for repair plus bleeder screw messing up , now that is fixed it is holding air perfect shooting around 906 fps inside of a dime at 50 yards most of the time with cphp's  , and does good with my cast NOE pellets also ...

I WISH!!!

I work in a health system and Omnicor has us pretty much locked down (yes, I know it's not here.... yet) and I would LOVE to have time to work on airguns but not until this bada$$ cold virus sneaks' off like SARS did. I had a lot of fun today!

@Snatchcan, Yes, the barrel band is a bugger that I got a taste of early on and am very careful to let it center by itself before snugging the grubs down. Also, no signs of clipping at all, in fact, I REMOVED the shroud and fired a full card of bulls with similar results with the Spanish Daisy wadcutters. These are pretty good pellets too, my daisy 880 shoots bulls with them most of the time at 10m though not so much this evening...

[swoab47]

It might be as simple as the barrel doesn't like those pellets.

I ran every kind of  177 pellet that I have (the list is long)through my DAR a couple weeks ago and it "liked" almost everything I put through it, but it definitely loved a couple.

Here are some pics.

I am planning on starting a new thread on my progress with my 177 DAR once I have a little bit more to report.

[Firewalker]

What pellets did it 'love'? I tried several, some no longer made, others are unobtanium so I stayed with the three I can get and have stock of but they all shoot 3/4-1" groups, nothing at all smaller. I also can see them spiral (CPHP's) in flight so I really think the twist it too fast for 8gr pellets.

Ill be looking for 10gr pellets and NSA slugs as well with hopes I can get groups to come in.

The Olympics shoot at 600fps so I may really drop speed to see what I can do but I may also reach out to Joe and swap barrels.

[swoab47]

H&N Sniper Medium. (I know you can't get them anymore)
Field Target Trophy
Baracuda Match 4.50 and 4.51
RWS Meiserkuglen and Super Mag
JSB/Air Arms 10 gr and 8.44

[Firewalker]

Thank you, I'll add some AA to my pyramid order.