Under Lever's - Crosman wants your input

[wyredvw]

It's been too long since I've been here...sorry.javascript:void(0);  But had some extra time and came back to browse the site.  Did some research and noticed no one mentioned the flip up breech design that the RWS 46 had.  Is there a reason?  To me this design would help those of us with fat...I mean large hands... javascript:void(0);  A good trigger is a must and i definitely like the nitro piston suggestions.  As the others have said it's great to see a company ask the end user on what we like/dislike.  Thanks

[a1Bogey]

I am always late to the party.   But I too would like to see a .20 option.   And a build quality that Crosman could be proud of.  And the end user, the customer.

Thanks for asking for our input.

Bogey

[springer]

I would love to see a underlever or sidelever from crosman. minimum 177 or 22 cal. 20 and 25 cal would be neat too pending powerplant.

[pjw]

mark 611 has the answer

[Mark 611]

It sound good doesn't it LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[RHINOTEX]

Please......................................................NO THUMBHOLE STOCK...................DON'T GET ME STARTED!......Thank you for the opportunity             Bob

[Hedgeapple]

how about a .32 cal. underlever, shrouded barrel, nice scope sling, no thumbhole stock, either synthetic or wood stock, $300 or less...just picked .32 off top of my head..... .22 or .25 would be good also..
Larry

[Hedgeapple]

forgot to add...... anything Crosman works for me.....love the old pumper 140's /1400's and the 1322/1377 Pistols steel breech and bolt is only thing I think they would need!

[darryl]

I'd want a new under lever rifle that could propel the CPHP in .22/14.3 grain at an average of 800FPS or better. I have the TF-87. Build yours lighter than that, and put a trigger at least as good as that one's two-stage adjustable. Good micro-adjust rear sight with knobs to adjust, and a decent front post sight. Properly stout mechanisms, including a NOT_PLASTIC spring guide, and the cocking lever (plus that whatever clamping design you'll use to hold the coking arm in place). A chocked barrel, and ensure that any other accuracy-improving measures are taken.
While you're at it, make a side lever too.

If all else fails, import the Hatsan under levers that we don't see on these shores. Is that what you're thinking?  

[oldpink]

I have to chime in with many others by mentioning a standard stock would be ideal.
NO THUMBHOLES.
Synthetic or wood, either one is okay by me.

[Korak-again]

 700-800fps in .177, a stock with enough drop to use iron sights. Good ( no fibre optic) sights not the standard junk on most AGs. Most of all a good two stage trigger.

[JonnyReb]

  Black or camo synthetic stocked, 34"ish overall length bullpup with picatinny rails, nitro piston sidelever and short CHOKED tube.  auto indexing magazine(or single shot) both would be nice and then a second gun, a carbine with conventional stock built off the same sidelever action.  No long barrels and make it in the USA!! 

[CitySniper]

I change my Mind... I want a sidelever instead, They look cooler...And also I could use a Bi-pod without interference. That RWS 48 is on my wish list...sooo

Your goal should be a springer that is as scary accurate as a Marauder out to say 50yd. then it wouldn't matter what it looked like....

[flyer]

            First of all I would like to congratulate you on your initiative to ask the end users/buyers of your products for their honest and clear opinions about them. I wish to declare that  I am not an American citizen and never owned Crosman airguns so far - please do not misunderstand my sayings. Here are a few suggestions on a new HIGH QUALITY air rifle that might be useful:
    - The rifle should be accurate, reliable and safe for use right out from the box: no need for opening, degreasing, relubing, checking the quality of internal parts, deburring, replacing parts with aftermarket superior ones and so on. A man who knows little about dismantling air guns or just does not want to perform such things on his all-new precious airgun would never be driven to such activities due to manufacturing errors, wrong part tolerances, badly positioned lubes or other things that fall 100% in the manufacturer's responsibility. If an airgun-lover wishes to open this rifle he must be pleasantly surprised from what he will se inside his gun.
    - The quality of raw materials used must be first class - no more cheap recyclable metal alloys of unknown composition and quality, no more plastics everywhere just to decrease manufacturing costs and increase benefits. This rifle (or series of rifles) should be directly comparable to the other great brands top models (Air Arms, HW, Diana etc) - not "cheap and cheerful" to suit the needs of children, teenagers, newcomers to the sport or people that change hobbies every week or month - this would be addressed to real airgun enthusiasts, mature sportsmen, shooters, hunters or collectors who can appreciate the "good stuff" when they see it. I am opposed to the general idea  "make it very powerful, very good and cheap for all" - if you follow this path you will end up with another common Crosman product not capable to stand among the crowd of mediocrity of all cheap airguns. "A really good thing is never a cheap one" - this applies to all goods in this lifetime and airguns are not an exception. If you are out to do something that will make your firm proud to produce it and all customers proud to own it you must take serious thoughts about the aspects of quality and their true cost. High quality steel like the ones used in the firearms production (branded over the receiver) with great resistance to rust and tough enough to withstand years of intensive use in all fields. High-quality steel is lighter than cheap metall alloys or alluminum and can lead to smaller dimensions of all parts but with greater strength in each one of them - all bolts and screws made from the same material and properly hardened also. A springer generates a lot of vibrations so “critical” bolts/screws should be a little oversized and properly secured.  Great care must be made to ensure that all tolerances are kept small and always the same from gun to gun, from batch to batch and so on - this means REAL QUALITY CONTROL - to ensure easy interchangeability of parts if ever needed. Metall (steel) open sights are not a thing of the past as many manufacturers tend to make us believe – they can produce very satisfactory results from shot 1 without the need of  an extra scope. Easy removal and re-installation of them is a good property and if they are offered with multiple rear sight notch and fron sight inserts choices (like the old Diana ones or the Weihrauch) they will be the best for the business. I am opposed to the newly founded fashion of so called “true-glow” or similar coloured open sights who make accurate shooting impossible (best suited for handguns in combat situations as their primary purpose). Scope rail in two dimensions (11 mm and weaver like the new Hatsans already reported) is another good addition  and re-settable automatic safety also in a convenient place. An efficient anti bear trap mechanism that can be removed by the user if he wishes so.
          - The built of the rifle. NO long stroke actions with thin/low diameter pistons and seals complete with long, heavy coils – instead of that: high diameter pistons and seals, short stroke actions, HIGH QUALITY SPRINGS with the exact coils needed for the job that will not break after some 1000’s of shots or loose their power easily in a short period of time – these things really exist dear gentlemen in many of your rival’s products and if you want to reach them you must make the step and embody them in your philosophy.  Parallel main cylinder walls, well formed transfer port in the right size to suit many calibre choices, buttoned pistons (from the factory – everybody knows about them and their advantages – it is not “nuclear science” to make), steel top hats and spring guides with near to perfect fit between them. A new type of  TRUE two stage trigger, easily adjustable and made from hardened all steel parts capable to withstand the forces of powerful mainsprings without wear – Weihrauch, Air Arms and even Hatsan have managed to produce good examples, why can’ t you do the same?  Steel barrels in all four popular calibres (0.177”, 0.20”, 0.22”, 0.25”)  made by cold forging (remember Cometa?) or other quality method – if this is not possible then order some Lothar Walther “specials” and use them (like AirArms). As for the design of the underlever I would suggest  the Air Arms approach  (found in older airguns also) – a hidden underlever like the one of the Prosport BUT not made of aluminium . The usual underlever designs that extend to the front end of the barrel are easier to manufacture but tend to produce front-heavy rifles best suitable for bench rest shooting but no so good for general use offhand  (plinking, hunting etc).  Here is an area of study for a better design underlever latch, made of  blued steel and with greater ergonomics (lesser power for cocking in an overall smooth cycle). This will give very good balance characteristics to the gun and a beautiful appearance. The overall length should be around 41 inches and weight about 7.2  lbs  with a barrel length of 16 inches. The barrel can be fully shrouded (blued steel shroud) and equipped  with an integral “compensator” (like Cometa Fusion or other designs) to allow for better distribution of air around the pellet after its exit from the barrel. Stock options and design: basic model with beech stock, ambidextrous, Monte Carlo equipped with abjustable comb (a real MUST for serious target shooting with scopes), rubber but-pad , closed pistol grip with proper dimensions to suit a lot of shooter’s hands (no need for a “fancy” anti-ergonomic thumbhole of poor design just for show) and a second “tactical” stock in dark grey colour with the same characteristics but superior resistance to bad weather (with forethought for better behaviour  during shots).  A walnut stock can be sold as an extra or as a “premier” model. The basic rifle should be a springer but with  provision to install a Crosman or other aftermarket  “Nitro-Piston” unit if the owner wishes so (I am a fanatic of traditional spring airguns). The fixed barrel with easily accessible loading port without complexity of construction is another strong puzzle for the  engineering minds.  Hatsan’s  designs with the single direction moving barrel inside a metal shroud assembly (as seen in the Torpedo series of models) is an interesting approach: if there was a mechanism of automatic opening for the barrel (that is when we start the cocking procedure the barrel moves to the front position automatically, remaining exposed for easy loading and when we return the cocking lever to the front position the barrel returns back to give a solid lockup - a spring loaded mechanism with proper design would not be that difficult to produce). This resolves many problems and leads to simpler construction (there is no need for internal cylinders, added complexity, excess weight, lower capacity of the main air chamber)  giving us enough “room” to use large diameter, short stroke pistons in a powerful action without a lot of recoil or vibrations – a 15+ real ftlbs in 0.177” cal or 19+ real ftlbs in 0.22” (without any kind of tuning) capable to perform admirably with many pellets in the market and ready for every task.
            At the end if such a project was ever possible to be made 100% in the US by American workers the label “MADE IN THE U.S.A.” would find again the place it deserves – for such a genuine product of proven QUALITY a lot of airgun friends would pay its high price and feel good for doing so.

[cubancigar2000]

The trigger is one of the most important things you can improve upon.

[cubancigar2000]

good write up flyer

[Mark 611]

flyer this is exelent stuff, great approach you should be our spokesman!

[Jay]

Wow I would say Flyer hit it on the head for me also(and saved me a ton of typing).

[North Pack]

Flyer, - a LOT of folks who know/like & VERY much enjoy air guns could never afford what you're suggesting. - The higher the price goes, the fewer folks that can or will buy it.

[AirScopes]

One thing that turns me off even really expensive underlevers is the loading port. Why not do a bolt like Hatsan or even a flip-up port like the Mod 100 -- it is silly to have to worry about losing your fingers just for loading a gun. It allows the user to load and cock or cock and then load where as a loading port forces the issue.

A nice adjustable trigger
A cocking arm lock that is easy to disengage
Tapped holes for optional raised rail
Decent wood stock
Stripping and muzzle brake options

my fantasy... a segmented cocking action like on my TF BS4. every inch or few it clicks as you cock it and if you let it go, it will not spring back.

Richard