GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on June 22, 2018, 09:48:43 PM
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Sportsman's Guide has them listed for $287.99 for the .22 and .25 cal and $269.99 for the .177. They are side lever breech 10 round repeaters with a nice walnut Monte Carlo stock. Here's a link
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/dynamic-pcp-air-rifle-25-caliber?a=2190705 (https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/dynamic-pcp-air-rifle-25-caliber?a=2190705)
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Its a SPA air rifle i believe.
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Just sent them a message that the Dynamic is a 3000psi fill rather than the listed 300 psi fill.
A side lever for 300 bucks? Wow, Crazy!!!
Crosman, will you please pay attention?
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I have been on the lookout for a classic looking .25 to replace my Xisico Sentry. I messaged Sportsman's Guide customer service for more information on the rifle. I will update this thread with what they say.
Hopefully the Dynamic rifle will make at least 50 fpe like my Sentry does. ;)
Taso
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interesting !
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They do not say regulated and they do not say if it is foster or probe fill, or country of mfr.
what if you want spare magazines or other parts?
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If u do a side shot comparison , it is very similar to an spa m16.
Some parts appear identical. And others are slightly different.
So , I have to agree with oldpro...
Either way it’s very interesting !
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Sportsman's Guide replied that the vendor is Aim Sports. I don't see any mention of them yet on the Aim Sports website, http://www.aimsportsinc.com/ (http://www.aimsportsinc.com/) if that is the correct website.
Searching for Aim Sports dynamic air rifle brings me here: https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/air-guns-bb-guns/aim-sports?d=121&c=1&b=AIM+SPORTS (https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/air-guns-bb-guns/aim-sports?d=121&c=1&b=AIM+SPORTS)
So the information isn't out on the web yet it seems.
Taso
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Knifemaker:
I have spent several hours on line and in communication with SG about this air gun, and all the questions stated herein were my questions as well. Initially, I wanted to find out more about the manufacturer/importer so that I might purchase additional magazines for the gun should I choose to buy it. What good would a magazine fed air gun be if it's magazine was broken or lost? Then, when my first search on line turned up only one response - that being SG - I really wanted to know more about this mystery gun?
You rightfully observed that 300 psi was an incorrect number, but your correction to a 3,000 psi fill, I believe is in error. What that number, 300, refers to is the cylinder capacity, and it should be 300 cc, not 300 or 3,000 psi! It is ambiguous, isn't it?
No matter which of us is correct, 300 psi can't be right!
deerflyguy
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Did a little google search this morning and found a short video about this rifle on sportsman guides web site..
http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565 (http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565)
What really sets this rifle apart from others is that it’s accuracy gets better at farther distances than it is close up... lol!
Watch the video and u will see what I mean..
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Did a little google search this morning and found a short video about this rifle on sportsman guides web site..
http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565 (http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565)
What really sets this rifle apart from others is that it’s accuracy gets better at farther distances than it is close up... lol!
Watch the video and u will see what I mean..
So at 100 yards it should shoot 1/4 inch groups! Cool! [/endsarcasm] ;D
They still insist 300 psi. And only 20 shots.
The short barrel retention in the breech is not conducive to extreme accuracy. But if the .25 makes more than 50 fpe, for at least 3 or 4 shots, it would suit my <25 yards, vitals shot, raccoon pesting needs.
Taso
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Knifemaker:
I have spent several hours on line and in communication with SG about this air gun, and all the questions stated herein were my questions as well. Initially, I wanted to find out more about the manufacturer/importer so that I might purchase additional magazines for the gun should I choose to buy it. What good would a magazine fed air gun be if it's magazine was broken or lost? Then, when my first search on line turned up only one response - that being SG - I really wanted to know more about this mystery gun?
You rightfully observed that 300 psi was an incorrect number, but your correction to a 3,000 psi fill, I believe is in error. What that number, 300, refers to is the cylinder capacity, and it should be 300 cc, not 300 or 3,000 psi! It is ambiguous, isn't it?
No matter which of us is correct, 300 psi can't be right!
deerflyguy
Deerfly, hate to go off topic here, but every time I see your avatar, it cracks the the "L" Up! Love it!!!
Knife
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Did a little google search this morning and found a short video about this rifle on sportsman guides web site..
http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565 (http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565)
What really sets this rifle apart from others is that it’s accuracy gets better at farther distances than it is close up... lol!
Watch the video and u will see what I mean..
So at 100 yards it should shoot 1/4 inch groups! Cool! [/endsarcasm] ;D
They still insist 300 psi. And only 20 shots.
The short barrel retention in the breech is not conducive to extreme accuracy. But if the .25 makes more than 50 fpe, for at least 3 or 4 shots, it would suit my <25 yards, vitals shot, raccoon pesting needs.
Taso
Plainly says 200 bar fill on the gun itself. ;)
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Michael,
You are right. I just watched the video again more carefully and right at the beginning of the video, the first shot of the left side of the receiver clearly shows "maximum fill pressure 3000 psi"
Cool!
Thanks,
Taso
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6/26/18
Well, guys, i just got off the phone with the marketing representative of this new air gun, and I must say I am extremely impressed with what i have learned! The gentleman spent considerable time with me and answered every question I could think to ask him! I'll list the new stuff that isn't already listed at Sportsman's Guide, and correct the incorrect information they have posted there..
Confirmed facts about the Dynamic DAR:
- Sportsman's Guide is the first to market this product
- Dynamic is the brand name
- Gun is made in China
- DAR-177; DAR-22; DAR-25 are the model numbers of the guns
- The stocks are walnut (kind unknown)
- Other style guns will be coming out (including synthetic stocks)
- Depending on caliber, pellet weight, and shooting conditions, number of quality shots will vary, but each gun
should get at least 20 good shots before falling off
- Guns are manufactured in China
- These guns are REGULATED!
- Barrel length is 15" within a 26" long fully shrouded exterior
- The shroud will act as a moderator (unknown if it is baffled)
- Accessories, including extra magazines, are expected to become available in about 90 days after guns
- Magazines will sell in the price range of Marauder mags
- It is not now known if mags will interchange with those of any other gun
- Comes with manometer gauge on end of cylinder
- Cylinder is 300 cc (not 300 psi, SG details has it wrong! Even the short video has it wrong!)
- Cylinder fill pressure is 3,000 psi
- I forgot to ask if it charges by probe or foster fitting?
- Safety is manual, not automatic!
- Parts and service will be available in the future through AimSportsInc.com in Ontario, Ca.
- There isn't any other website up now where anyone can obtain any additional information, so don't bother looking,
however, Dynamic is working on its own website and expects it to be up in about two or three weeks.
I don't have any more information, so don't waste your time asking me any more about these guns. I have nothing more to add.
Please don't give me grief if some of these things don't come to pass, as I am repeating them from memory as they were told to me by the best source of information I knew to go to - the man who is the marketing rep for Arm Sports, Inc.. I personally think these will be the 2018 gun of the year, much like the Gauntlet was last year, and plan on buying one in .25 caliber!
deerflyguy
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That's incredible Bill, thanks for sharing ., the regulated part is the most impressive !
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I thought so too, Rob!
I double questioned him on that part.
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I thought so too, Rob!
I double questioned him on that part.
Good job on that! Some pr/sales people intermix the regulation word into "self regulating" which skirts on deception. If it can't make high power then I agree with a previous post that it would be a good gateway gun into pcp.
Taso
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Interesting set of specs, for sure. I want to see more about this.
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Did a little google search this morning and found a short video about this rifle on sportsman guides web site..
http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565 (http://video.sportsmansguide.com/?v=1854149565)
What really sets this rifle apart from others is that it’s accuracy gets better at farther distances than it is close up... lol!
Watch the video and u will see what I mean..
YIKES! that guy uses his whole arm to pull the trigger. :o What's up with that?
And the muzzle looks like it has a thread protector on it...
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really nice.. the confusion with the gauge and fill pressure is because its a 10 X gauge.( equivalent to megapascal ). 3000 psi is lasered into the breech.
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As of the morning of June 29, 2018, Sportsman's Guide Has all three calibers IN STOCK, for immediate order and delivery. Products that were previously back ordered until July 16, 2018 are now in stock.
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I will be interested to see some user reviews.
If this is shipping before the fortitude that will be seriously bad news for Crosman.
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According to Sportsman's Guide, the Dynamic rifles, of every caliber, began shipping today!
I don't think anyone knows the performance details yet, except for the brief video provided by the manufacturer, so we don't have much to go on except the outward appearance. That being the case, the Dynamic has it all over the Benjamin Fortitude! There is just no comparing a hollow, synthetic stock against a finished walnut stock!, nor a dinky, crude looking rear mounted bolt action to a sleek, side throw.
I don't know how the rest of you guys feel, but for quite some time, I have not been impressed with the cheap, junky, models of guns that Crosman has been marketing. I own a few, but except for the Marauder, they don't impress me! I'm surprised that they sell the Marauder, as that is their most solid and impressive gun in appearance and performance, IMHO! The company seems to lean towards cheap production and high profit margins over quality? I suppose the real wood stock has much to do with it, as I am a traditional style, hardwood (nicely grained walnut whenever possible) stocked fanatic.
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I wonder if they will have a single shot tray ? I care nothing about magazine fed shooting.
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Looks nice.
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Unless someone else beat me to it I will be the first to order one. Got sick of the Fortitude B.S. and canceled my order today. Just finished placing my order with SG. Will let everyone know what it's like when it comes and post pictures. Got mine in 22cal, hope it gets as many shots as the Diana outlaw does before falling of the regulator. Should be here in 3-5 days.
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I'm a little lost here. So this is a regulated, 3000psi fill gun with a 300cc tube. And the shot count is only 20? That just doesn't make sense, even for a .25cal. Given all the other wrong specs, this seems to be one also. Or maybe I'm not thinking correctly...
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I don't think it is 300cc , I cant find that info
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I was going off of Deerfly's info in his post that he got from the sales rep.
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I was going off of Deerfly's info in his post that he got from the sales rep.
just reread that , that is weird.. something is off here.
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Just watched the video again, they were shooting a 177 and who knows what &^^& pellets they may have been using. I suspect this is a rebranded m16 from Snowpeak and will shoot about the same as the outlaw. The end cap looks to be threaded so may have room for an optional pickle for the end. I just wish it had the same side lever as the outlaw, but might be able to replace it with one if my suspicions are correct.
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Unless someone else beat me to it I will be the first to order one. Got sick of the Fortitude B.S. and canceled my order today. Just finished placing my order with SG. Will let everyone know what it's like when it comes and post pictures. Got mine in 22cal, hope it gets as many shots as the Diana outlaw does before falling of the regulator. Should be here in 3-5 days.
I tried to order one last week but they wont ship to Cali. >:(
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Sorry Tom, I beat you to it. I placed my order right after breakfast about 9:00 am eastern Friday.
No matter though. Somebody probably beat me, too?
In any case, they haven't shipped mine yet, although they say that orders placed before 11:00 am usually ship the same day.
~ deerflyguy
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Have you ordered from them in the past? Seems so many these days take your order and then ship but don't give you any shipping notice or even an email to let you know it's on the way. I guess not knowing when it's coming keeps the anticipation up, but don't help you if you're trying to keep packages from being stolen off your porch. Not sad about being second, just hope we're pleased with what we get. I wish I could get a better look at the magazine in the video, it almost looks like a Marauder magazine as opposed to the one that comes with the Diana Outlaw. I guess we get to document everything for the others who are interested.
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What!!!! no guinea pigs yet! C'mon people we need a guinea pig. . . . . . . that's just it though, when you really don't know what you're going to get it is a gamble. Where are these walnut stocks coming from ??? China ??? it''ll be the first that I've seen walnut coming direct from China. If they are indeed made by SPA they might be a heck of a deal. Very tempting but not willing to risk it right now.
Ahhhhh my bad there are some guinea pigs, it's sure going to be interesting to see how they are.
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Very interesting,
VERY SUBSCRIBED ! ;D
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Yes, Tom, I have made dozens of purchases from Sportsman's Guide, and I find them to be a fine company with which to do business! By becoming a "Buyer's Club" member, even greater savings can be had! Often, they offer deals that other companies cannot meet, let alone beat! For example: Recently, I ordered the Umarex Gauntlet in .25 caliber. At the time, with their offers, and my discounts, I was able to order it for $177.99 delivered! Of course, it's a back ordered gun, as no one has it yet in that caliber, and I'm still waiting, but I don't care! For savings like that, I'll wait!
When they have things in stock, they ship well packaged and promptly! Often, among their discounts, they offer free shipping, sales, specials, daily specials, double discounts, and occasionally clearances at very low prices!
Every order they ship goes through FEDEX Ground, or FEDEX Post, and tracking numbers are available when the order ships. They always send email confirmations of orders when made, and shipping information when the orders ship! Also, they never charge you until the order ships! At checkout, you can decide to add insurance (for $.99), or signature confirmation of delivery (for $3.00). Their customer service is courteous and helpful. They don't sell all brands of air guns, nor do they sell many extras to go with the guns they do sell, but great deals can be had, if you're patient, and pay attention.
Good luck with your purchase!
~ deerflyguy
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Thanks Bill, I have never dealt with them before so didn't know what to expect, that's good to hear, I like it when company's do business that way, wish they all did. Have always liked doing business with Pyramyd air for that reason, glad that SG operates much the same. I didn't take the free buyers club offer though, would never get my moneys worth, and didn't want to have to cancel to stop auto charging of my credit card. I would have bought more than one tin of pellets with my order but they don't appear to carry any JSB in 22 cal. I got one tin of the 18gr sniper magnums to try in my rifles. I have 18.13 JSB"s already to try but expect it to like 15.89 best per three other videos watched.
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About the walnut stock, not sure but only a guess, but may be made by Mineli like what Diana has put on the outlaw but in beech, this from AOA"s video by Jerrod. Then again it may just be a walnut stained beech like offered on other SPA rifles per their website. It would be cool if it were real walnut and not just stain, the info SG gives is sketchy so who knows.
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Actually, SG's info regarding the stock, isn't sketchy at all?
In no less than three places, in their product description, it states that the stock is made from "select grade walnut"!
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Sorry, clarification needed, by sketchy I was more referring to the 300 psi bit, shot count, and not indicating that it's regulated. Would love to see real walnut show up. ;D
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Unless someone else beat me to it I will be the first to order one. Got sick of the Fortitude B.S. and canceled my order today. Just finished placing my order with SG. Will let everyone know what it's like when it comes and post pictures. Got mine in 22cal, hope it gets as many shots as the Diana outlaw does before falling of the regulator. Should be here in 3-5 days.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I also cancelled my fortitude order after seeing it pushed back to August.
The big thing I question though is it says only 20 shots per fill. That doesn't sound like a regulated PCP? My urban can get 30 shots. That was the biggest draw for me with the fortitude, more shots per fill.
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I can't say I blame folks for having doubts about information provided for these Dynamic air rifles; I have my doubts, too. I am willing to wait for he dust to settle before judging this gun because of this confusion.
Remember that Sportsman's Guide is the very first company to sell them, and that SG is NOT a dedicated air gun seller, but sells every sort of outdoor activity merchandise, and military surplus items as they become available.
It is quite possible that much of the confusion is due to the guns being manufactured in China, details being transposed from initial Chinese printed data, and maybe even done so by an American worker at SG who doesn't know much about air guns to be able to question what we see as questionable?
Since the guns are in this country and being shipped as we discuss them, very soon the initial buyers will be chiming in with many answers for our multitudes of questions. I suggest patience is the best current path for all to travel.
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Would love to see real walnut show up. ;D
Me too but in SG's pictures of the gun, I see beech.
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Chinese copy of fx streamline maybe? I like it. I want it! Benjamin, eat your heart out...
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Yes, it does look a lot like the FX Streamline - at 1/4 of its price!
I do wonder what barrel they used, or idea they copied?
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On the bright side, my new Yong Heng compressor was sitting on my porch when I got home tonight, went through its internals and checked all the connections, was happy to see it was spotless inside. Had to clear the second stage piston head as they had shipped it upside down. Will hook up the water bucket and pump tomorrow after work and try filling my marauder.
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The only problem I see here is a 15in barrel length. Seems awfully short for a 3000psi regulated gun. I'm a SG member, but think I'm gonna see how the reviews pan out b4 buying. What kills me is that I was soooooo close to buying the SPA M16 in .22 when I came across this. Grrrrrrrr....
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I can't see the worry about a 15" barrel? I do like a 24" barrel for the additional power and accuracy that usually comes with long barrels, but shorter barrels don't have to equate to less accuracy?
The Air Arms TX200 MkIII Air Rifle under lever is one of the most accurate guns you can find, and its barrel is just a tad over 13".
Nobody really knows what the pros and cons are for this new entry, so waiting until a few guns have been shot and reviewed might be a prudent consideration, that's true. Any criticism of the gun before that happens would be way too soon, I think? What I'm waiting to see is what Chinese maker will steal FX technology and begin using twist steel barrels or power adjusters?
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One of the guys in my group ordered one of these in .25 cal.
As soon as it arrives, We will certainly run it through it paces, and be providing a full performance review as soon as we get our hands on it.
Shots per fill untethered, bench shots for consistency tethered, chrony numbers, various pellets & slugs, 50 75 100 yd groups, etc.
looking very forward (and hopeful) to some promising performance.
Then,(naturally ;) ;D :o 8) ), we will tear it apart,...evaluate it for modifications/tinkering,...apply them as we see fit, ...
... and do them all again.
stay tuned....
(this should be fun :o ::) :P ;D )
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One of the guys in my group ordered one of these in .25 cal.
As soon as it arrives, We will certainly run it through it paces, and be providing a full performance review as soon as we get our hands on it.
Shots per fill untethered, bench shots for consistency tethered, chrony numbers, various pellets & slugs, 50 75 100 yd groups, etc.
looking very forward (and hopeful) to some promising performance.
Bet it aint no match for a souped up M11. ;)
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One of the guys in my group ordered one of these in .25 cal.
As soon as it arrives, We will certainly run it through it paces, and be providing a full performance review as soon as we get our hands on it.
Shots per fill untethered, bench shots for consistency tethered, chrony numbers, various pellets & slugs, 50 75 100 yd groups, etc.
looking very forward (and hopeful) to some promising performance.
Bet it aint no match for a souped up M11. ;)
That may be so,
But once my mad scientist machinist buddy gets to tinker with it, 👾⚫🔧🔩🔨🔪🔫
(Insert maniacal laugh here), 😱😵
Then who knows what we will come up with. 😜😀👍
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Anybody heard what the weight is?
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Shipping weight:
.25 cal. = 9.20 lbs.
Probable item weight would be about 2# less?
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Thanks, the lighter the better for an EDC woods carry!
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Thats seems like a good deal! I May try one.
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Oh Great-Subscribed!
Waiting on some reviews...if positive, I'm gonna be in hot water with the wifey. ;)
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One of the guys in my group ordered one of these in .25 cal.
As soon as it arrives, We will certainly run it through it paces, and be providing a full performance review as soon as we get our hands on it.
Shots per fill untethered, bench shots for consistency tethered, chrony numbers, various pellets & slugs, 50 75 100 yd groups, etc.
looking very forward (and hopeful) to some promising performance.
Then,(naturally ;) ;D :o 8) ), we will tear it apart,...evaluate it for modifications/tinkering,...apply them as we see fit, ...
... and do them all again.
stay tuned....
(this should be fun :o ::) :P ;D )
Good news Ron! I'm real interested to see what power the .25 makes and how it's built. I may then consider to get a .177 also. :)
Thanks,
Taso
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Better jump on it now, Taso, while they are still available!
With only one seller (so far) in the USA, if it sells out, you might have to wait even longer than we did for the Gauntlet?
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Bill,
I considered it but I am trigger shy without a tear down and review. I guess I have taken worse chances before.... ;D
Taso
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Ok, they're both in my cart. ;D
I found a free shipping coupon, SH2764, and used that so far. Does anyone else see any other coupons?
Taso
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SH2683 works and it takes 10% off.
So now both rifles, .177 and .25, with tax are now $536.03 in my cart.
Taso
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Done. I pulled the trigger too!
Now wait and see. ;D
Taso
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If the weight of the Diana Outlaw is comparable I expect it to be about 6.75 pounds unscoped. Not sure if walnut weighs more or less than beech. Sportsmans Guide really needs to fix all the information in their add page, would help people decide to buy or pass. My delivery is scheduled for Thursday barring Fed-x/ USPS problems.
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Done. I pulled the trigger too!
Now wait and see. ;D
Taso
Cool, .......looking forward to see your reviews
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SH2683 works and it takes 10% off.
So now both rifles, .177 and .25, with tax are now $536.03 in my cart.
Taso thats less than I paid for one p15 25cal . If they are indeed spa someone was marking them up 100 to 150 %
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Tom:
To answer your question..........
Air dried Black Walnut wood, at 12% retained moisture, weighs 39 lbs/cf.
Air dried Beech wood, at 12% retained moisture, weighs 45 lbs/cf.
Thus, it seems that walnut is 14% +/- lighter, than an equal volume of beech.
That might be something to remember if you want wood, over synthetic (which is always lighter than any gun stock wood), and weight is a concern, and you have a choice of beech or walnut?
Simply stated, without much fear of being wrong, all other things being equal, a gun having a walnut stock will be a bit lighter than the same gun having a beech stock!
~ deerflyguy
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Glad you went for them, Taso!
It only hurts when the credit card bill comes........or when your wife finds out, if you happen to be married!
I have a feeling that these guns might be the bargain of the year? I hope so! They sure look nice......and in walnut, too!
What I like so far:
Style; stocked in walnut; weight (which should allow for well under 9 lbs when scoped); 3 calibers
What I am concerned about:
Chinese manufacture; extra mags not available yet; unknown quality; unknown accuracy; unknown fill port (probe or Foster); stated specifications at SG are in question?
I am rather optimistic that the guns will prove to be no worse than most any new guns to hit the market, and costing so little, as air guns go, one can't realistically expect high end European quality at Chinese prices, even though China has been improving its entries of late.
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Has anyone been able to determine if these are regulated or not? I don't have a .177 repeater and at $269.99, this seems a pretty good deal.
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See one of my earlier postings here, as I already answered that question.
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Finally a under 300 bucks with sidelever rather then obsolete bolts
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Couldn’t help myself...
Just ordered a .177 cal.
I blame u guys for feeding my addiction!
And now the wait begins
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See one of my earlier postings here, as I already answered that question.
Thanks Bill, I went back and saw all the details you posted. THANK YOU! I have a habit of clicking on the little thingy that takes you to the last post and was out of the country with no internet access last week, so I apparently missed a lot of posts on this, Sorry about the dumb question, but thanks again for reaching out and getting all the details! It will be interesting to see if they come with a probe or foster fitting, but with the gauge on the end of the air tube, and based on other Chinese airguns, I suspect it will be a probe.
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You people are like an AA meeting in reverse. Just ordered one in .22. Now hopefully it gets lost in all the motorcycle parts I order for the business...or the Redhead I'm hitched to is gonna vivisect me. Redheads. Dangerous. Like handling damp Dynamite. I blame my possible early departure from this Mortal Coil on y'all....
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You won't have much of a wait, Mike.
SG ships fairly fast.
They probably won't ship yours until Friday, due to the Wednesday holiday and orders back up Thursday because of it, but I'm thinking that you will get it no later than next Tuesday at the latest, depending on where you live. It will come via Fedex, and they work Saturday, unlike UPS.
Good luck with the red head! I know exactly what you mean when you describe her! I always got along well with red heads, but I must say, their temperament can be indeterminable on any given day! That's OK though, as life need some spice occasionally, and red heads supply more than their share, as I'm sure you would agree!
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Glad you are much like the rest of us, Rhett.
We addicts like to know that we aren't alone in our happiness!
I am of the opinion that no matter what brand of air gun you buy, there is a pellet out there somewhere that will bring out its accuracy, given some practice and patience.
In the case of the Dynamic, at least you will have a nice looking gun to look at while you search for that pellet!
Not only am I an air gun addict, but I'm also a walnut stock addict, so when I can get both in one buy, I'm giddy!
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You're welcome, Paul. The only reason I didn't repeat myself and simply tell you what you wanted to know is because by your question, I knew that you missed my earlier post that had much other data in it that you would probably want to know too?
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I'm still following this thread, it will be interesting to see the guns that people get. If it's an SPA product the model number should probably be in the owners manual.
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Finally a under 300 bucks with sidelever rather then obsolete bolts
Manny when you look at the moving parts in a lever action system it's probably no more expensive to manufacture than a bolt action.
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Wayne:
Except for not having adjustable power, the DAR Dynamic looks every bit like a poor man's FX Streamline knock off to me! As soon as someone takes delivery, I'd like to know what the owner thinks?
BTW: I just noticed that SG has made corrections to all three caliber product descriptions. That "300 psi" cylinder that we believed was an incorrect listing, was indeed so. They changed it to read 3000 psi. We were correct that it was either meant to be 3000 psi, or 300 cc.
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Finally a under 300 bucks with sidelever rather then obsolete bolts
Manny when you look at the moving parts in a lever action system it's probably no more expensive to manufacture than a bolt action.
And that is what kills me,...I can't believe Crosman still makes the Marauder with that junk bolt action.
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Finally a under 300 bucks with sidelever rather then obsolete bolts
Manny when you look at the moving parts in a lever action system it's probably no more expensive to manufacture than a bolt action.
And that is what kills me,...I can't believe Crosman still makes the Marauder with that junk bolt action.
110% Agreed ! ! !
Side lever is just SOOoooo much nicer to operate and shoot .
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Pirate:
There are many things about Crosman that are hard to understand, but only because you and I, and others have been spoiled by the great advancement in air gun technologies that have come forth in recent years.
I believe that the high end lines of manufacture are constantly attempting to advance their products and generate newer ideas that show their interest in manufacturing the best that they are capable at making. There is a pride in their work that requires them to be the best that they can be. Sadly, it is missing in Crosman. I own a few Crosman products, so I'm not an air gun snob, but I think that Crosman is losing it's pride, and is now much more of a "bottom line" company, profit driven first, and quality & innovation driven last. Yes, they have come out with some new items in the last couple of years; the Maximus; the Airbow come to mind, but they use no quality materials in their production. Their woods are of low quality, and they use wood sparingly, choosing instead to rely on hollow synthetics and "tinny" sounding thin metals in production. Even the Chinese understand that air gun enthusiasts want quality at a fair price, not junk. I wish that Crosman would advance the quality of it's product line, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride!
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Well, of course can't tell yet until it get into peoples hands,
but if this gun pans out with the nice wood stock, sidelever and regulated at that price,.....I wouldn't even look at Fortitude or Gauntlet
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I sure hope this gun is what they say it is, because when I read the product description on SG and watched the short video, I now have some confusion? The gun is supposed to have a walnut stock, by product description and the photos shown, but the gun in the video appears to have a walnut stained beech stock? Also, the manufacturer's representative i spoke with told me that the guns are regulated (of course, you can't see if that is true by a picture). One would think that a 3000 psi, regulated gun would be capable of more than 20 good shots per fill, and in any case, that number should change for each different caliber, shouldn't it?
Oh well? I must have patience! All will come out in due time!
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Well, of course can't tell yet until it get into peoples hands,
but if this gun pans out with the nice wood stock, sidelever and regulated at that price,.....I wouldn't even look at Fortitude or Gauntlet
Me either Manny . . . the thing of it is is that Crosman already has a lot of Chinese parts in their guns anyway ??? Why not keep up with the trends is what I say, heck the Russian's are even making a sidelever for the 22xx's now ???
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I'm pretty sure this will have the same probe fill that the outlaw and m16 uses. If you look at the dust cover behind the gage it looks like the same spring-loaded cover on the other two rifles. I'm hoping that the rifle in the video was just a prototype of the one we will receive and that it will sport real walnut. Thanks deerfly, I thought walnut was a lighter wood I just didn't take the time to look it up but that makes sense why it gets used on so many rifles and shotguns, besides being a beautiful wood. (especially black walnut) though I don't expect that. :'(
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Needless to say to a lot of you folks but I am a big fan of the SPA products, I've got two top hunters right at the moment and it's a tie between my Airmax Dominator and my Prod.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/961/41101558234_49e06fcb7b_b.jpg)
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If this rifle was a pistol grip stock, I'd be all over it! Can't really go wrong for the price, and with SG backing it up.
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I went ahead and ordered one in .177. I don't have a .177 repeater, it was about $20 less than the .22 and .25, and I already have four .22 repeaters and soon to have two .25 repeaters. I'm hoping for the best, this may well be the deal of the Month!
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Just got a notice from SG saying my .22 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. If that's the case, I'm at least completely impressed with their shipping times. I only ordered the gun on Tuesday. I'm not sure where they ship from, but I live 10miles north of Monroe Wisconsin. I'm suddenly really happy I bought this thing, regardless of whatever wrath the Redhead rains down on my sorry butt!!!
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It sounds like you be the first official guinea pig Mike! I'll be looking forward to your review of it.
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x2
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I received shipping notification for the .177 I ordered, not sure when it will arrive, but, that will give a .22 and .177 for initial impressions. Who here ordered the .25?
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I just got my advanced automated calls from Fedex. Mine will be delivered tomorrow, too Mike!
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One of my buddies ordered the
.25 last Saturday. Unfortunately, SG does not ship to Kaleefornistan, so it is going to Az first.
Will probably bee a few weeks before it makes it here. 😞
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I was surprised to hear that SG does not ship to Ca?
Ca is certainly a large enough state in population so as to be a lucrative market!
I wonder if it is just guns that they won't ship there, or everything?
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My kingdom for a chronograph and a compressor.....How am I gonna sneak those by Big Red?.......Seriously, help me out here guys, lol,! I told her I wanted a compressor, especially now that the prices are reasonable. She said, " You have a hand pump. And it's not like the exercise is gonna hurt you. When's the last time you could see your feet, when you're standing up?" Ouch! Way to hurt a guy. She simply doesn't get this whole Adult BB Gun thing, as she's taken to call my passion. Girls. Go figure...
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I was surprised to hear that SG does not ship to Ca?
Ca is certainly a large enough state in population so as to be a lucrative market!
I wonder if it is just guns that they won't ship there, or everything?
It's strange what some retailers will or will not ship here.
When my buddy was placing the order, he even questioned the sales rep from SG on it. The rep said there was nothing he could do about it, and that there are several things that can not be shipped here per SG company policy.
Now here's the senseless kicker...
I did a little googling on Aimsports (the listed distributor or the Dynamic PCP). I found that their distribution center is in Ontario, Ca. , (same address as where the Yong Heng compressors come thru).
And Ontario is less than 10 miles from my buddies house !
Go figure that one out 😒.
Here's another one for you,
I have seen the game spinner targets in local Wal-Mart's for $50ish price. I have found the same targets on WM website for about $20 cheaper.
I tried to order the target from the website, and it comes up as "can not ship to Ca."
What the heck ! ?
So this just basically shows us that it is sometimes more a retailers company policy rather than a Ca. state regulation.
We have so many dumb regs here, that many retailers just don't want to deal with picking between what is or is not allowed here.
DUMB !!!
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Ron:
May I suggest that you call Armsport and talk to their customer service department. I have called them twice, and they answered each time. I know it's a long shot, but maybe your friend can go there and buy it directly for you - if you explain your situation? If you get through, try speaking to a guy named Eric, who is the air gun sales representative. He might have already set up another selling point other than SG? Maybe they will sell the gun to you if SG won't?
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Oops
Double posted
Sorry
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Just got a notice from SG saying my .22 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. If that's the case, I'm at least completely impressed with their shipping times. I only ordered the gun on Tuesday. I'm not sure where they ship from, but I live 10miles north of Monroe Wisconsin. I'm suddenly really happy I bought this thing, regardless of whatever wrath the Redhead rains down on my sorry butt!!!
Hmm only about 2 1/2 hours away, I might have to go visit it LOL ;)
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Hey everyone, thought I'd better give you all a heads up on this one, just received my 22 rifle today from Sportsmans Guide and it will not hold air. I tried cocking it to see if it would fill with hammer and spring pressure off the poppet, air still rushes out the barrel. I contacted Sportsmans Guide and they do not accept returns on air rifles, instead, I have to return it to Aimsports in Minnesota for a replacement or refund to my credit card. Tried calling their returns number but it was too late to get an answer on the line. Am going to try their web returns site and see if I can get a return authorization. They best not make me cover shipping or I will be really >:( What I can tell you is the rifle was poorly packaged, no padding at all, just a box in a box. At least the inner box had the rifle in a foam rubber tray and cover. The rifle feels very light, the stock is real walnut and looks quite nice, the fit of parts doesn't look bad but the rifle doesn't seem very robust. The magazine looks like the ones that come with the plinkster from Mrodair, and it does use a fill probe. The side lever seems to operate pretty smoothly but is sloppy and needs to be shimmed to remove the slop at the pivot point. Sorry but did not take any pictures before boxing it back up to return it. I hope you all have better luck with your rifles than I did. I can say that I will never purchase from SG ever again. Poor customer service and returns policy. :-[
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Hey everyone, thought I'd better give you all a heads up on this one, just received my 22 rifle today from Sportsmans Guide and it will not hold air. I tried cocking it to see if it would fill with hammer and spring pressure off the poppet, air still rushes out the barrel. I contacted Sportsmans Guide and they do not accept returns on air rifles, instead, I have to return it to Aimsports in Minnesota for a replacement or refund to my credit card. Tried calling their returns number but it was too late to get an answer on the line. Am going to try their web returns site and see if I can get a return authorization. They best not make me cover shipping or I will be really >:( What I can tell you is the rifle was poorly packaged, no padding at all, just a box in a box. At least the inner box had the rifle in a foam rubber tray and cover. The rifle feels very light, the stock is real walnut and looks quite nice, the fit of parts doesn't look bad but the rifle doesn't seem very robust. The magazine looks like the ones that come with the plinkster from Mrodair, and it does use a fill probe. The side lever seems to operate pretty smoothly but is sloppy and needs to be shimmed to remove the slop at the pivot point. Sorry but did not take any pictures before boxing it back up to return it. I hope you all have better luck with your rifles than I did. I can say that I will never purchase from SG ever again. Poor customer service and returns policy. :-[
Hmmm, well this news is a bit discouraging.
Too bad it is all boxed back up already.
Just thinking out loud hear, but might it possibly be a stuck poppet valve ?
I'm thinking I might cock and dry fire it a couple of times, and then see of it might hold air after that.
If that works, it would certainly ly be less frustrating than goi g through a returns process.
Did you identify where the leak was coming from ? Did it sound like it was coming out of the muzzle ?
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Tom,
That stinks. I hope your rifle isn't representative of the whole bunch. A few people are expecting delivery tomorrow. We will know then.
I have a .177 and .25 supposedly being delivered on Saturday.
Taso
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Boy, I'm sure sorry to hear that, Tom. I don't blame you for having that attitude toward SG, especially since it is your first experience with them. I've got to say, I have been doing business with them since 2004, and have made many dozens of purchases from them, including about a dozen air rifles, and have never had an experience like yours! I do hope that you will get satisfaction when all the dust settles.
Tomorrow, I, and others will be getting our guns. For all our sake, and the hassle involved correcting defective issues, I hope that your gun was the only lemon product in the whole batch?
Who knows? The guns might have other issues, as they are new to the market, and nobody knows what to expect.
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Yea, I rolled the dice on an unknown brand but figured it would be ok if made by snowpeak. As a side note, the dust cover over the fill port is not spring loaded as they are on the diana model. They obviously don't pressure test these before they leave the factory. I tried everything I could to get the thing to fill, really cranked the air to it hoping the poppet would slam shut but no use, the air just rushes out the barrel. I dry fired it over and over also hoping the poppet would seat or dislodge a piece of grit under it. The sloppy lose hinge point could easily be fixed with two thin plastic shims made from clear plastic from a blister-type package material, was gonna try that once gun held air ok. The trigger pull felt pretty good out of the box but I would probably have lightened it up some more for my taste, but much better than a Disco or Maximus trigger.
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I forsee them selling returns as this as refurbs at discounted then grab it 😉
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I am of the mindset to refuse the shipments if SG doesn't honor returns of defective items out of the box.
Taso
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Tom,
I just looked at their return policy and I don't see where they say they don't accept returns of air rifles. Maybe the person you spoke to doesn't know an air rifle from a firearm? I would call and speak to someone else.
SG return policy:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/customerservice/returnpolicy (https://www.sportsmansguide.com/customerservice/returnpolicy)
Taso
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I spoke to the person in charge of returns, he told me that SG had changed their policy on the return of airguns just a short time ago. He looked it up on his computer as to what current policy was and I was told that it had to go back to Aimsports Inc. to their Minnesota facility. After Aimsports gets it they will repair/replace at their discretion, or refund to my credit card. Whats worse is that it looks like I will be out the shipping charges to return a faulty rifle. Don't that be all. I couldn't speak to the warranty rep tonight as he was gone for the day but looked at their warranty claims page on the business site and sent info through the warranty claims process form by computer. Will wait to get a response. I told them that I shouldn't have to pay to return defective merchandise and if need be I would be in touch with my credit card company. Uhhhhhhh.
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can you guys help me out and save me from re-reading all 5 pages of this thread ?
I'm trying to verify a few things on these rifles.
I have a couple of questions that I'm sure have already been covered (?)
1- Have we actually verifiedthese rifles are manufactured by SPA ? or is this just "Hopeful speculation" (on our part) ?
If we have verified it, ... can anyone share the source of that info ?
2- Have we verified that these are produced or distributed through "Aim Sports Inc. " ?
If so, Where did that conformation come from ? .. and is this link the same Aim Sports,
http://aimsportsinc.com/ (http://aimsportsinc.com/)
The reason I'm trying to figure it out is, I have googled just about everything imaginable trying to find more info on these rifles to no avail. I have searched "Dynamic PCP", "DAR", "Dynamic Air Rifle(s)", "DAR .22" (+ .25,.177), "Chinese Side Lever /PCP/ Air Rifle ", and a half a dozen other related searches too. I got nothing, nada, zilch.
I have not found ANYTHING on them, (outside of the Sportsmans Guide listings).
The Aim Sports website does not show anything related to Airguns.
The above searches come back only, as the few SG listings.
Now I DID FIND a FB page for "Dynamic Air Rifles ".
(Now I'll have to admit here that I don't do FB, and I barely know anything about navigating FB) ... but from what I saw, there is absolutely nothing on that page about them either.
https://www.facebook.com/Dynamic-Air-Rifles-1507159016005141/ (https://www.facebook.com/Dynamic-Air-Rifles-1507159016005141/)
The only thing I did find,
was the DAR Facebook page, shows the SAME Business Address, as a google search for Aim Sports Inc.
It just seems a tad odd to me, that SG is the ONLY source, or retailer, on these rifles.
It seems that since these ARE Chinese made, we would see something about them (perhaps in other countries), (under other names), just like we see the SPA rifles in Spain, Netherlands, South Africa, etc.
Or at least there would be somebody else with at least SOMETHING on them for info.
We know they are made in China. We also know there are also OTHER Chinese airgun manufacturers.
i.e.- Xisco, SAG, BAM, Industry brand, etc.
We know that SPA is only a MANUFACTURER, and that they slap whatever brand name / model name, a distributor or retailer wants to put on their products.
so again, Here's my questions,
1- Have we actually verifiedthese rifles are manufactured by SPA ? or is this just "Hopeful speculation" (on our part) ?
If we have verified it, ... can anyone share the source of that info ?
2- Have we verified that these are produced or distributed through "Aim Sports Inc. " ?
If so, Where did that conformation come from ? .. and is this link the same Aim Sports,
http://aimsportsinc.com/ (http://aimsportsinc.com/)
Thanks for any input.
Cheers
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From what I recall: No and Yes. ;D
Taso
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I suppose any company can have it's own rules for returns, or for anything else?
It's really up to the buyer to check those things out before doing business.
In this case, even if it's never been an issue before, rules change.
Most often, we see this in rule changes that are sent periodically by our credit card companies.
Yes, it does not so good, and if one of my guns that are arriving tomorrow, happens to be defective, I will not like it either, but it wouldn't be the first time that a similar thing has happened to me, and I would probably not so good it up and follow instructions. Whether or not I would ever do business with SG, or ever again buy a DAR Dynamic air rifle would be subject to serious considerations, but not entered into hastily. Maybe I would consider a different seller, for future purchases of air guns, and continue normal purchasing of other items from SG? Maybe I would be put off by quality concerns and never buy from that manufacturer again? I don't know?
For example: I do not buy pellets from MidwayUSA because they refuse to package them adequately to prevent damage during shipment. I have told them of this problem no less than 3 times, but they don't seem to care! It is their choice not to change their packing procedure, and it is my choice not to buy pellets from them, but I still buy other things that they sell!
Of course, DAR Dynamic can't be found for sale anywhere else than SG, so it remains to be seen what I might do if I experience anything similar to what Tom did? Just like could be the case with any brand of air gun, I could get a lemon like Tom did. Some companies would send a return merchandise ticket in such a case; some companies might allow a return with a restocking fee for the privilege; other companies say to send the product to the manufacturer - like Tom was told. Not every company has the same policy. In the case of defective merchandise, it is my belief that the seller should send a return merchandise authorization and deal with the manufacturer themselves. Of course, that isn't my decision. What makes this a strange situation to me is that, in the past, I received a damaged air rifle from SG, and without argument, they sent me a RM tag and covered all expenses. I suppose that all has changed now?
I have my fingers crossed!
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Ron (Gertrude):
These guns only hit the internet last Saturday, and ONLY from Sportsman's Guide!
You do not have to read the whole string again, but most of your questions are answered on the first page of this string, if you will page down and read only my posts - mainly the 2nd one that I posted on the first page!
Just page down and read the Festus icon postings. That will save you time.
PS: You WILL NOT find all the answers that you seek!
~ Bill (deerflyguy)
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Just to add to that, we know the guns are made in China, it's printed on the rifle, but we only speculate that they're made by SPA due to a similarity of features, but this may not be the case. Just look at all the tiny sports cameras coming out of China, or all the little airgun compressors. I just bought one and was glad to see I got a real yong heng and not a clone. The Chinese are masters of producing knockoffs.
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Bill,
I agree with you in essence for the most part. But do you know what stinks? Right on the item page it says "Satisfaction guaranteed" and "Easy returns" I've attached a picture.
They should honor those terms that are displayed on their site versus their latest terms that haven't been updated on the site or else it comes off a tad shady wouldn't you agree?
The Dynamic rifles were easy to list and they even corrected the specs quickly, so why weren't the terms, which were far more important, be updated as quickly? I am not asking you for an answer, it's a rhetorical question.
They at least could have given a popup before adding the item to your cart telling a buyer that there are no returns.
I've been an SG member for over a year. I bought two Accu's from them for real cheap. I just can't defend them or see the business logic in not doing what's right with the Dynamic rifle.
I just get more annoyed and feel more justified in refusing their delivery out of principal. </rant> ;D
Taso
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Taso,
All good points.
They did quickly make the listing corrections, so why not terms of return being clarified too.
We sure can't argue with that at all.
Now I'm wondering if SG is just drop shipping them straight from Aim Sports in Minnesota, (or Ontario, Ca.).
SG is also based in Mn. and is owned by Northern Tool and Equipment which is also in Mn.
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Big time bummer on the no good gun, maybe some others will have better results but it sounds like they're going to be a gamble. I pretty much agree with a lot of what Ron is saying myself, Travis did say they appeared to be SPA but when I seen the video the gun looked more like a Heinz 57. I suppose it could be a parts gun put together somewhere other than China but more than likely it's probably another Chinese knockoff.
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Now I'm wondering if SG is just drop shipping them straight from Aim Sports in Minnesota, (or Ontario, Ca.).
SG is also based in Mn. and is owned by Northern Tool and Equipment which is also in Mn.
My FedEx notification shows my coming from TSG Guide West, Inver Grove, MN, I'm assuming this is a warehouse for SG. SG's contact page shows a mailing address of South St. Paul, MN, Aim Sports, Inc shows an address in Ontario, CA. I didn't seen an address for Aim Sports in MN. If it's shipping from SG, you should be able to return it to SG. I just hope others have better luck and Tom's lemon was just a fluke...
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Mine showed up This morning ! It was packed quite well , The wood is nice and the gun is light.. The cocking arm is a little floppy but works well. Pumped up to 3000 and dry fired Trigger is not bad a little creep can adj and will see .Only one mag. Not as quiet as my Mrod ! Will scope up and see this after noon!
Mike
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Hey Mike!
That is encouraging news! I can't wait for your shooting impressions.
Taso
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Big Mike,
Can you tell if the mag is the same as that used in any other gun that people own? I'm hoping that it is not proprietary only to the Dynamic?
For example: The Gauntlet mags will swap with the Marauder. Might save some money if they do?
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Im not sure if it will work in others But i can tell you it is not the same as my mrod.. It seems a little on the flimsy side :)
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Any gun selling on the cheap is bound to be using a few short cuts.
The thing that attracted me the most about the Dynamic was the walnut stock.
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I dont think you will be disappointed in the stock it is pretty nice for a 300.00 gun! like i said the cocking mec is a little floppy but it seems to load the pellets ok and it does cock easy.. I need to scope it up and see how it shoots... Typical Chinese stuff NO Manual arr
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No pics didnt happen LOL ;D
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No pics didnt happen LOL ;D
That’s right...
Rifle & mag pic. please..
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You guys are all distracting Mike from his mission! lol
Let him step away from the computer and put some pellets down range so he can give us a report. ;D
Taso
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:o
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Dang now I'm really tempted, I'll get it in .25 if I do, hope they're not all gone ???
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First 10 rounds off the step ladder :) Im pretty happy!
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Very nice group there Mike!
Thanks for sharing.
Especially considering it ain’t even broken in yet.. can’t wait till mine arrives , supposed to be here tomorrow!
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Holy cow and accurate too !!!
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First 10 rounds off the step ladder :) Im pretty happy!
That's looking pretty dang encouraging !
Looking forward to some groups at 50 75 100 yards with various pellets
Shot strings from a single fill, chrony numbers for various weight pellets, and shot consistencies while tethered.
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Also interested in hearing if the barrels are choked.
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Looking good.
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So far I was able to get 50 shots from 2500 psi to 1000 psi and still rip threw a 1/2 in plywood
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OOOhhhh man should I push the button it really looks worth it and the walnut stock is the icing on the cake. Regulated too, it does look a lot like my SPA M16, that would be really neat if my gun would slide right in that stock.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4649/39855934591_2d75111055_b.jpg)
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Well I went and did it.
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Probably the main reason I ordered now is because how long will the walnut stock deal last, plus I've got a ton of .25 cal pellets now anyway.
I molded up a box full of them yesterday, sorting is always fun but I didn't get that many rejects.
Plenty of lead
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/42255790505_15624c2ae1_b.jpg)
and plenty of pellets
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/838/43136887071_58a86c96db_b.jpg)
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Got mine this morning. .22. A few things: The barrel was filthy. I mean like Walmart springer filthy. The rifle took 3000psi. At 10 yards, with H&N FTT 5.53, 54 and 55 gave me dime sized groups. It also pings like a Sonar. Stretch that to 30, and they were all over the place. Lots of keyholes. Switched to CPUM's. No more keyholes, but flyers galore. Tried JSB 16's, same thing. I'm getting 40 shots from 3000 down to 1000. Not impressed. Not even sure these things are regulated, but being as I own it, it looks like I'm about to find out. It's headed to the bench after lunch and a Xanax, as I'm more than slightly annoyed with myself for buying this thing on impulse...More to follow, and I'll be following this thread closely to see how everybody else fairs.
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Found it. Pellets are clipping the exit of the shroud ( it's drilled slightly off center) and what passes for the internal baffles. It's the design. A really bad design. If I can figure out how to post pics, I'll show everybody.
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Just a small addition to details I think not yet mentioned:
- Guns arrived in good physical order, showing no damage, packaged in factory boxes within outer boxes, but no popcorn, blister packs, or paper space filler. Within factory box, guns were in form fitted foam protection.
- Guns are stocked in walnut, darkly stained, but not Minnelli quality. Not fancy grained, nonetheless nice enough. Far better than "no name" hardwood or hollow synthetic that other low priced guns come with.
- Fit and finish is acceptable.
- Although photos seem to show differently, gun barrels are NOT threaded for moderators or air strippers!
- Magazines are 10 shot for .22 cal., 10 shot for .25 cal. & 13 shot for .177 cal.
- Manuals come with each gun.
- Each gun comes with only one mag.
- One Full set of "O" rings comes with each gun.
- Guns come apparently having never been aired, manometers being pegged out at zero BAR.
I haven't aired or shot the guns, and probably won't have time to do so any time soon, so whether or not they are up to snuff internally, will have to be found out by someone else?
I see that some details are coming in now, and that they are so far not too impressive regarding accuracy, but the ball game is in the early innings, and I think that when the right pellets are mated to each gun, much better results will begin to show.
I am particularly interested in shot strings that should prove, or disprove the presence of a regulator, and, of course, tell us what to expect for economy and between fills.
~ deerflyguy
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Mike:
What caliber is your gun?
I hope your revelation is an isolated case and/or perhaps will only be characteristic in your gun?
I have heard enough so far though, for me not to become optimistic that such is the case?
Anybody ever hear the old adage......."You get what you pay for!"?
~ deerflyguy
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I think we have to remember Where these guns are made ! For a 300.00 PCP Im impressed. Out of the box at 25yds with cheap crosman pellets. Its not a streamline ! Just my cents! 8)
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Aim Sports in Ontario, CA is about 20 minute from where I live. I called them and spoke with a sales rep today. He was a little surprised and unaware that Sportsman's Guide wasn't willing to ship to California. He also said that Sportsman's Guide is only the first place to be carrying these rifles and that there will very soon be other places available to purchase. But he said he couldn't tell me just yet.(?) Can't wait to hear more about these rifles!
Pelletina,
Hatsan BT Carnivore .30 cal
Hatsan BT65 QE ,25 cal
Hatsan Bullboss .25 cal
Hatsan AT44-10s QE Long .25 cal
Hatsan AT44-10S QE .25 cal
Hatsan Flashpup .25 cal
Benjamin Marauder .25 cal
Hatsan Galatian .177 cal with Wolf LDC
Mrodair Varmint .22 cal with Wolf LDC
Diana Stormrider .22 cal
Gamo Urban .22 cal
Hatsan AT P2 .22 cal with Wolf LDC
Hatsan 135 Vortex QE .30 cal
Hatsan 125 Vortex .25 cal
Hatsan 95 Vortex QE .22 cal
Benjamin Trail NP2 .22 cal
Ruger Blackhawk Elite .177 cal (POS)
Hatsan Mod 25 .22 cal
Crosman 2240 .22 cal
Beeman P17 .177 cal
Yong Heng 110v compressor
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Some good news, received two email messages from Aimsports today, they are setting me up for return shipping as they want to dissect the rifle to see why it wouldn't air up, they will then repair or replace the rifle and then return. Will know more as things happen, they needed my address for a pickup order to go out, not sure how long all this will take. Informed them of the discussion here on GTA, don't know if they will take a look or not but they at least know we're talking about the DAR rifles. I will stay in touch as things unfold.
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Glad to hear that the guys who make this gun are standing behind their product! I am also glad to know that you told them about this site and this string about their products> Unknown to me, you did these things, while i was trying to make contact with my connection there to tell him about your problem and this string, too! I was unsuccessful in making contact, as my man wasn't in today!
I'm becoming optimistic that we have a pretty good new product on the market with these guns, but like everything new, they have their glitches which will have to be worked out before our confidence level stabilizes.
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That's encouraging news Tom. Keep us posted, sounds like they are going to stand behind their product. Also good to know they will arrange shipping back to them is needed. Hopefully all will end on a positive note and you'll have an exceptional air gun when all is said and done!
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Got a third email from them earlier with UPS shipping label to print, had to run to Staples for ink as my magenta was out and the printer wouldn't print the label without the new tank. Just need to attach the label and drop it off at UPS store. I'll get it on its way asap. I hope they see where I had to straighten the shroud as barrel and air tube got twisted some in shipping. I just wish companies shipping this stuff would pack them better and that the carriers would be more careful.
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Good news Tom! I will accept my two and see how it goes. 🙂
Does anyone have reports on .25 power yet?
Taso
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Tonight I spent three hours trying everything I knew to mount a scope on my new Dynamic, and I have mounted dozens of scopes in my lifetime. I have two large ammo cans full of various mounts, risers and misc. devices to be able to mount to most any situation I come across, but this Dynamic has me stumped? On the SG website, they say that the built in 10 mm mount is what they call a European mount. I didn't give it a thought and believed that certainly, my many different brands of dovetail mounts would work - but they don't! I can't tighten any given mount to the point where it doesn't slip, and I'm using a T-handle hex wrench, so I'm giving it all the tightening that anyone could give without either breaking the wrench or striping the screws.
HELP!!!!!
Any suggestions anybody?
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sounds like they are legit 10 mm , not 11 .. geared toward the euro market.. heres a link that may help
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Pair-of-Scope-Rings-Laser-Scope-Mount-for-10mm-Dovetail-Rail-Low-Profile/121995686988?hash=item1c6782744c:g:aTUAAOSwMN9XQ6Q1:sc:USPSFirstClass (https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Pair-of-Scope-Rings-Laser-Scope-Mount-for-10mm-Dovetail-Rail-Low-Profile/121995686988?hash=item1c6782744c:g:aTUAAOSwMN9XQ6Q1:sc:USPSFirstClass)!76065!US!-1
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Thanks, Rob!
They aren't the style (4 screw) that I usually use, but I ordered them anyway. I hope they really are 10 mm because I'm pretty sure there's going to be a run on them very shortly when the guys get their guns and find out their generic dovetail mounts don't work!
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Bill did you try the picatinny to dovetail adapters ? I've got a brand new set around here somewhere, they seem to work fantastic on a lot of the dovetails. They have a lot of adjustment.
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I had the same issue with the scope mounting. I fixed it by cutting two lengths of stainless safety wire I had in the shop, and laid them in the dovetail channels. Worked just fine. I like to use one piece offset mounts on all my magazine fed guns, but it will work with any 3/8 (11mm) rings.
Also went ahead and tore the entire gun down. Fixed my clipping problem by drilling out all five individual aluminum baffles, and the end cap to 9/32nds. Added an O ring at the end cap side of the shroud, so no more rattles. The gun is indeed regulated, but at what pressure is unknown. No power adjuster. And no spring guide. It free floats. Also added the "bottle brush de-pinger". 1 1/4in, 4" long. Works like a charm. Shimmed up the side lever. Smooth and tight, now. Really nice. Briefly looked at the trigger assembly. Similar to, but not quite like SPA Varmint. It can be made better, but that'll have to wait til tomorrow.
Getting penny sized 10 shot groups with CPUM's now at 33yards.
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I just ordered rings direct from West Lake Tactical, they were $6.95 with free shipping.
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Wow, Mike, you don't go half way, do you?
There goes the warranty! lol
I'm glad that the gun is truly regulated!
Were you able to ascertain the length of the barrel, independent of the shroud? I'm sure you had it before you when you had it torn down. They say 15"? The length of the shroud from the muzzle to the face of the magazine is 23 1/4". That would make the baffle section about 8 1/4"? Does that sound right?
Having had the gun apart, are you still convinced that it is the design that is faulty, or could it simply be sloppy workmanship?
Other than the things you have mentioned, was the gun fairly well put together in manufacturing?
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Yeah, Wayne, i ordered 3 sets from someplace in the world for $19.05 shipped (they're supposed to be here next Thursday).
I hated to do that, as I must have two dozen sets of rings laying around, and none of them were 10 mm!
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I've tried using offset mounts on several of my guns, and they work quite well, but there really isn't much space on the receiver of the Dynamic, and the mag sticking up is an issue. Doesn't make much difference, because I don't have anymore of them to use either. I've also used pic-to-dovetail adapters on several guns, with good success, but the mag doesn't allow for it on the Dynamic. It could be done, but it would be a cobb job, for sure! Besides, I've got 3 guns to dress up! Guess I'll just wait for the rings?
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I want to see it!
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I want to see it!
LOL! Me too! I want to see a close up of the magazines! I have a .177 on order, and like the idea it holds 13 rounds, but would still like to order a couple mags as back-up. Can anyone confirm if they are the same as the those used with any of the current SPA air rifles on the market? If so, do you have a part number? I could then just order direct from SPA and have them in a month or two...
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I thought i was loosing it with the rings ! lol I machined .020 off a set that i had to mount my scope.. anyway I get up at 530 to play with the dar and low and behold it is empty after leaving it full to 3000 last night.. :-\ Try to fill it this AM and it has a awful leak... Turns out it had a blown Regulator Oring.. Oh and by the way the orings are two small from the factory. Went to my Fuel injection oring set and replaced them.. The air tank where the regulator sets was so roughly machined that an oring will never seal for long. Had to fix that also.. Next experience be careful when removing a double stacked pellet they can get into the bolt/cocking mec and Very hard to get out Arrr But When it shoots it is quit accurate ;D
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How can a regulated PCP ping?.... Mike, did you put the depinger in the plenum?....
Bob
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Big Mike, sorry to hear you had problems with yours so early also, doesn't help boost my confidence in this rifle when I get one back, just sent mine out at UPS store at 10:00 am this morning. Now the wait clock begins, hope I see it before August. :-\ Also glad to hear there really is a regulator in there, was trusting the info from Deerfly. I'm sure more people will chime in as their rifles arrive. My scope for this rifle was made in China, maybe it will close on the 10mm dovetail better than others, never got a chance to try after no air up problem.
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My two are on their way back to SG. I refused the packages.
Taso
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I think I’ll chalk the DAR up as you get what you pay fore. Sounds like it’s 3rd world tooling and quality but at that price it still may be a deal if your a tinkerer if not probably look elsewhere.
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When my guns were enroute the order details at SG said no returns. Now after the refused delivery's it has a check box for return.
Does this option show up for anyone else before today or did SG reconsider returns?
Thanks,
Taso
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I think I’ll chalk the DAR up as you get what you pay fore. Sounds like it’s 3rd world tooling and quality but at that price it still may be a deal if your a tinkerer if not probably look elsewhere.
Yeah, I didn't want to tinker. I even have a few unfinished projects but I need a break. ;D
Taso
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I think I’ll chalk the DAR up as you get what you pay fore. Sounds like it’s 3rd world tooling and quality but at that price it still may be a deal if your a tinkerer if not probably look elsewhere.
doesn't that apply to all the popular guns under 500 bux ?? that's where the majority of the market is , so that could be said about 99% of the guns the average Joe owns.
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Tracker Its all good! I had to send my Mrod back it shot 7in to the left at 30ft I was like wth and the new one they sent me shot 5in to the right at 30ft i just took the gun apart and put the barrel in the lathe give it some straitening mrod fixed. So the DAR needing some love is no surprise . Ive herd of guys having $hit luck with 2000.00 FX's so if a couple Orings and my brake hone fixed this thing Im ok with it.Oh BTW My regulator is Adjustable.. I would like another Mag If they are selling them...
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Taso?
I just checked the SG return policies and this one point jumped out at me:
"Packages refused by customers will be refunded for merchandise total only, shipping and handling charges for both the delivery and return shipping are non-refundable."
I suppose that means, because you refused two boxes, you will be charged somewhere around $80-$100 +/- s&h for the refusals? Did you see this before you made the decision to refuse the guns? I'm guessing that when they credit your card for the returns, they will take the s&h charges directly out of the total credit amount due you for your guns?
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Bill,
No, I did not catch that. So I guess I'll be out $40 or $80. I'll email and see if I can get that lowered.
Thanks,
Taso
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Fly that will be a stiff one ot swallow :-[ Even after the frustration of mine not holding air overnight and the fixing this AM I still like a lot about this rifle . It has its quirks But it is a shooter, I went back to 45yds and the groups stayed in a quarter size hole Im not even bagged in just shooting off my stepladder! I do think the gun has potential given a chance Just like the little blue compressors! :o
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Taso:
Shipping is pretty cut and dried, it's the "handling" charges that sometimes get you! That might include initial order picking, as well as restocking fees? Many companies charge those.
In the case of SG, you will be our "litmus" test?
Please let us know how you make out?
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My two are on their way back to SG. I refused the packages.
Taso
Now, that was quite the radical decision there.
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Taso:
Shipping is pretty cut and dried, it's the "handling" charges that sometimes get you! That might include initial order picking, as well as restocking fees? Many companies charge those.
In the case of SG, you will be our "litmus" test?
Please let us know how you make out?
I wrote them via their contact options that it was shady to enforce terms that were not on their website. That is deception, fraud or whatever you want to call it.
I purchased the rifle in good faith and I didn't want to be the one to bug test or deal with a defective rifle or worse case right it off. Someone else may think that is acceptable and more power to them but not me.
We may agree or disagree on all sorts of subjects but as consumers we have rights and recourse.
I bought two Xisico Sentry's for $250 each and they functioned great, meaning they held air and fired. So saying that defects are acceptable in low priced rifles is where I will have to respectfully disagree.
I will report back with their response.
OP, I apologize for going off topic.
Thanks,
Taso
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Depinger went in the tube, not the plenum. As this is my first regulated gun, and it was mentioned that it's adjustable, how does one go about doing that that? I'd like to dial mine back a bit. Only getting 30 shots from 3k psi to 1k psi. The gun is a .22. total barrel length is 18". Rifled portion is 16 3/4 inches. The barrel is massive. Definitely Not a straw barrel by any means. And the build quality is meh. My lower priced Sentry's are miles better in build quality.
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By terms I meant their Satisfaction Guaranty and Easy Returns features in the items' description.
I apologize for not clarifying that in my previous post.
Taso
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Taso:
Shipping is pretty cut and dried, it's the "handling" charges that sometimes get you! That might include initial order picking, as well as restocking fees? Many companies charge those.
In the case of SG, you will be our "litmus" test?
Please let us know how you make out?
I wrote them via their contact options that it was shady to enforce terms that were not on their website. That is deception, fraud or whatever you want to call it.
I purchased the rifle in good faith and I didn't want to be the one to bug test or deal with a defective rifle or worse case right it off. Someone else may think that is acceptable and more power to them but not me.
We may agree or disagree on all sorts of subjects but as consumers we have rights and recourse.
I bought two Xisico Sentry's for $250 each and they functioned great, meaning they held air and fired. So saying that defects are acceptable in low priced rifles is where I will have to respectfully disagree.
I will report back with their response.
OP, I apologize for going off topic.
Thanks,
Taso
I don't consider this off topic, I think it good to know how SG is going to handle your situation. I'm with you now getting a working air rifle, especially when you lay down over $200 for one. For that matter, regardless of what you pay for something, you expect it to be fully functional when delivered. If it's not, then it's defective and the Vendor needs to step up and make it right. Isn't that part of their Satisfaction Guarantee? Pretty simple if you ask me, if it doesn't work, then I'm not satisfied!
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Here's what the regulator looks like on my SPA M16, it's above the gauges, the original one is anodized black that's in it, this is one I ordered from SPA.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/803/40975905121_44bf330941_b.jpg)
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A small update from SG. The first email I received earlier stated that I will receive a refund when the merchandise from my order is processed by the returns department.
I replied and asked for clarification if I would receive a full refund. They just responded that they are refunding the package protection fee of $0.99 now to make sure I do get a full refund of $536.03. So now I wait. :)
I will report back the amounts refunded to my debit card and if they say anything else.
I am very relieved that they are being reasonable.
I want to stress that I am just relaying facts as they progress as a reference for future buyers. If you want to know what I told them please pm me. Up to now they are doing the right thing with me and I don't want this thread locked due to bashing and flaming. I don't foresee that happening but lets be mindful of what we say. :)
Thank you,
Taso
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So i recieved my .177 DAR this afternoon. After giving it a good look over i found several parts and set screws that were not even hand tight. The most shocking one being the pressure tube!
After doing a partial tear down and tightening everything,
I'll say that imho the build style and quality are very similar and on par with SPA offerings.
I cant say the same for the assembly of these rifles..
Any one who purchases one of these guns should definitely lay eyes on and check all parts and fasteners before pressurizing and firing .
The mags are similar to mrod mags.
The rifles are regulated , as i laid eyes on it myself.
Mine aired up and fired as it should, although it may not of in the state i received it in.
the trigger is nicer than i expected and a somewhat crisp, light , let-off.
I didnt have enough light to chrono it today, will do so tomorrow and post numbers.
All in all, I think I'm gonna like this rifle!
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Rhett:
You say that the mags are similar to those of the M-Rod?
If so, does anybody out there whom has received their Dynamic, have an M-Rod in the same caliber, and can try them to see if they are interchangeable? It would be a great thing if they are, as M-Rod mags are everywhere, but we might have to wait months before Dynamic mags hit the marketplace?
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They are opposite DAR mag is left handed and MROD is right handed
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I know the Mrod Air Varmint mags are 9 round for .177 and 7 round for the .22, and the Dynamic are 13 round for the .177 and 10 round for the .22, so I suspect they are also larger than the Mrod/SPA mags.
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I caught something else about SG's return policy that I skimmed over a couple time and didn't realize what it said. The last two lines of the return policy state:
We reserve the right to update our return policy at any time and without prior notice by posting the revised version on our site. These changes will be effective as of the date we post the revised version on our site.
The last one is the one I passed over. It states that any changes in the return policy will be effective as of the date they post the revised version on the website.
So to put it mildly, the person that told tracker1955 that the new no returns policy on airguns was already in effect was full of.... misinformation. ;D
Taso
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Was gonna ask if anyone who's had their regulator out noted any markings on it. Mine had a Sharpied 145. If that's the case, these guns drop off the reg at a little over 2000psi. Or it could have just been a part number. Who knows...
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Yes, Taso, I saw that, too, and decided to keep that information in my back pocket for possible personal use, if things go bad?
As for right now, given the many points of discussion we all have had herein, IMHO, that point is the ONLY one that SG is guilty of doing incorrectly - so far!
Other than that, they have posted their policies in meticulous detail, and it is our responsibility to know what their rules of business are before we place an order.
In every instance that we have spoken herein, those who have ordered these guns have had their orders promptly shipped, and nobody has reported seeing any external physical damages to their guns even if we might have liked to have seen a bit more packaging protection inside the outside shipping box. SG has also sent confirmation emails for the initial order, and when shipped, along with tracking information though Fedex. Many companies leave you hanging for that information.
I'm for sitting quietly and allowing the dust to settle on this new air gun before going off half cocked and dissing SG until dissing is actually warranted. I don't think it has reached that point yet?
Likewise, I don't think this gun is any different than any other air gun that we might buy, except maybe that the manufacturer could use a better, more intense, quality control during assembly? In fact, these guns are getting a pretty good rap for features and accuracy vs price point, as early reviews seem to support!
Just sayin'............
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Bill,
We are in agreement that the denial of the air rifle return was SG's only mistake. I have no complaints with anything else. :)
Taso
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It's definitely different than my SPA M16. If it's a monblock design it's much different then my SPA M16. It looks like a hybrid between the lower and higher end SPA's ??? I'm really curious now because these very well could end up being nice inexpensive guns(especially for the tinkerer's). These guns could have been built in the Snowpeak factory by the looks of it. I'm surprised you didn't show a pic of the stock itself Rhett, that in itself was one of the main things about this gun that really caught my eye.
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So i recieved my .177 DAR this afternoon. After giving it a good look over i found several parts and set screws that were not even hand tight. The most shocking one being the pressure tube!
After doing a partial tear down and tightening everything,
I'll say that imho the build style and quality are very similar and on par with SPA offerings.
I cant say the same for the assembly of these rifles..
Any one who purchases one of these guns should definitely lay eyes on and check all parts and fasteners before pressurizing and firing .
The mags are similar to mrod mags.
The rifles are regulated , as i laid eyes on it myself.
Mine aired up and fired as it should, although it may not of in the state i received it in.
the trigger is nicer than i expected and a somewhat crisp, light , let-off.
I didnt have enough light to chrono it today, will do so tomorrow and post numbers.
All in all, I think I'm gonna like this rifle!
the action looks awesome.. Looks like a modded QB trigger that's been powder coated.
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So , i got to shoot some groups and chrono today.
It seems to really like the jsb monsters, atleast at 20yds.
See pics. ( i haven't even cleaned the barrel yet! )
Oh and took a couple stock pics for ya Wayne..
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Ok, so the stock pics after resizing dont show alot of detail so heres a couple more that are a little better res.
Well the other one is as big a pic as the site will allow.
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That stock is really looking good Rhett, can't wait to get mine, they are a nice looking rifle. I was just doing some chrono tests with my Mrod .25, looks like that MDS hammer ain't gonna get it(not heavy enough) now all I need to do is locate my stock hammer, been looking all over for it.
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Good news mine held air over night..
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Ok, so the stock pics after resizing dont show alot of detail so heres a couple more that are a little better res.
Well the other one is as big a pic as the site will allow.
Nice looking..thanks for the actual photo of DAR.👍
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Does anyone have numbers for a .25 cal ?
Shot strings (with pressure used per shot), Chrony with pellet weights ?
Groups at 50-75-100 yds ?
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Sorry dont have a .25 , but i did get to shoot a group this afternoon with my .177
Stretched it out as far as my little backyard goes.
All 37 yds of it. . . Oh , & i still havnt cleaned the barrel.
Hopefully i can get out to my dads and try some real distance in the near future.
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Sorry dont have a .25 , but i did get to shoot a group this afternoon with my .177
Stretched it out as far as my little backyard goes.
All 37 yds of it. . . Oh , & i still havnt cleaned the barrel.
Hopefully i can get out to my dads and try some real distance in the near future.
that's very impressive , still over 100 feet !
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Looking good there Rhett !!! I received a shipping conformation on my .25, it's going to be here Wednesday 8) I'll also be receiving a mold from NOE for .22 BT's around the same time too !!!
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Looking good there Rhett !!! I received a shipping conformation on my .25, it's going to be here Wednesday 8) I'll also be receiving a mold from NOE for .22 BT's around the same time too !!!
That’s good to hear Wayne, can’t wait to see how your quarter bore performs.
I’m thinking hard about getting me a .25 DAR. I’m liking this one so much!
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What kind of rings are you guys using to scope your guns?
I just received the 10mm rings that I special ordered for mine, but they don't work either? I can't tighten them up? Obviously, the gun cannot be shot accurately unless it is scoped, so i'm up a tree? I don't want to rig some sort of sloppy fix, using shims, and would much prefer to use rings that fit right out of the box.
~ deerflyguy
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What kind of rings are you guys using to scope your guns?
I just received the 10mm rings that I special ordered for mine, but they don't work either? I can't tighten them up? Obviously, the gun cannot be shot accurately unless it is scoped, so i'm up a tree? I don't want to rig some sort of sloppy fix, using shims, and would much prefer to use rings that fit right out of the box.
~ deerflyguy
I machined .020 off the clamp side of the rings . A good file and a vice will also do the job.
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I got rings yesterday for mine but it looks like they're for a 30mm scope, I'll have to rob the scope from my SPA M16 to try it ???
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I suggest that you try the ring base and see if it fits the receiver mount? If it doesn't, you may as well not go robbing that scope. It would be a waste of time.
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Bill, where did you order the rings from? I ordered the ones that were posted in a previous post in this thread. They arrived yesterday. My rifle is scheduled for delivery today. I have already mounted the rings on a scope and compared the base to the 11mm based rings I removed, and you can see there is a considerably smaller space between the part that grips the rail. I’ll be fitting it to the rifle once it arrives, but based on the visual comparison to the 11mm rings, they should work.
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I've shopped too many sites to remember where I ordered them, but it was off ebay. Just cheap rings, but thought they would work because are 10 mm rings and 11 mm rings are too loose. Nope! Rings I got have a cupped base, not flat like the receiver. They simply will not tighten enough to keep from slipping. Nothing I have tried will tighten enough to hold. Very loose! Suggestion to file off the clamp side of each ring would work, but i shouldn't have to do that. The gun should work with some base sold somewhere?
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When I seen the ebay posting earlier in this thread I got the model number and brand, went directly to their site and they were the same exact ones on ebay, I did look at them and you can see the difference between them and the 11mm, I looked around and these aren't a very common size either.
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I might cast some of the heavy pellets tomorrow morning before Fedex gets here and maybe pop one of the red squirrels going through my back yard while I'm at it.
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I called Aim Sport to ask them what they suggest for rings, and the only guy who might be able to help is off until Thursday. Unless someone on this site can help, it will have to wait, I guess?
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I'm hoping for a unique looking grain on the one that's on it's way here.
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Don't get your hopes up!
That's what I wanted, too, but the guns i received, although they were nice walnut, didn't have much character.
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What kind of rings are you guys using to scope your guns?
I just received the 10mm rings that I special ordered for mine, but they don't work either? I can't tighten them up? Obviously, the gun cannot be shot accurately unless it is scoped, so i'm up a tree? I don't want to rig some sort of sloppy fix, using shims, and would much prefer to use rings that fit right out of the box.
~ deerflyguy
Here’s what I used with a set of weaver mounts..
https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ (https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ)
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I recently ran into a similar issue with a red dot sight I was mounting that claimed to mount to both picatinny or 11mm rails.
Well long story short, it did not mount / tighten to 11mm rails properly, and would slide forward and aft due to not tightening enough I to the rail channels. The seller was in China and played all the typical return shipping games through several emails.
It ended up being more time effort and hassle than it was worth.
I had to end up purchasing a set of low profile adapters, (same as linked above) and use the picatinny side of the mounts for the red dot sight to mount properly and securely. Works perfectly.
Of course I could say I shouldn't have to do that and I shouldn't have had to have the extra expense of purchasing the adapters, but sometimes it is simply not worth the hassle. Especially when the item was so cheap in the first place.... And still will perform to reasonable expectations.
I say, forget trying to make the 11mm rings fit if it bothers you.
Just get some picatinny rings and the low profile adapters off of Amazon, and be done with it.
As experienced airgunners, we soon learn that sometimes that Chinese guns, ( priced so low that you cant refuse), .. WILL NEED a little "massaging and tinkering" to reach its full potential.
That's kind of the "beauty in them" if you ask me.
There are a few brands/models of the Chinese guns that are basically "Diamonds in the rough"... And ANYONE purchasing one of these Dynamic's should be fully expecting nothing different.
Yes, it shows a LOT or potential.
Yes, it shows a lot of promise.
But we know from experience that it is likely NOT going to come straight out of the box and stand shoulder to shoulder with guns that cost 3 or 6 times as much... So we ask ourselves, hmmm, is it worth it to me? Can I justify buying it, tinkering some, learning some, and end up with that "polished diamond" that I see working below the surface ?
Sometimes the answer to those questions is YES, (and sometimes it is No).
I personally think that anyone who buys this gun, needs to fully understand and EXPECT that.
So, what have we learned from the guns delivered so far ?
We have one gun delivered that leaked right away and was sent back.
We have 2 guns that were refused delivery because of the first guns issues, (and I suspect a bit of buyers remorse was mixed in there too).
We have one gun that is showing fairly decent groups that did not even get the barrel cleaned before shooting it. (I still can not figure out the logic or reasoning it that decision), as we all know of the typical bearing grease/cosmoline, commonly found in new Chinese barrels.
But either way, it seems to be shooting at least fairly well so far, and the barrel hasn't had time to get seasoned yet either. (And it never will if it doesn't get cleaned first)
We have heard from a few that the side lever is a bit loose, but will probably be ok OR, maybe require a little shimming. (Just like EVERY 13xx/22xx trigger ever made), so that should come as no surprise either. Lets just hope this lever does not turn into the same fiasco as the KRAL sidelevers.
We have more guns being delivered soon and it will be interesting to see what else pops up.
I can't wait for my buddies .25 to get here. The current plan is to open the box, clean the barrel, slug the barrel, shoot some strings over the crony, and on paper with known decent quality pellets, ...
And then take the whole thing apart for an internal evaluation.
Who knows ? Maybe these will be "the next Diamonds in the Rough", ... (And maybe not).
If in fact, they are manufactured by SPA, then IMO, the odds are pretty good that they can be made into some pretty impressive shooters with very little effort.
If not,... Then it's a crapshoot.
And YES !, I am very much HOPING, that these will follow closely in the path of my recent experiences with the M10/M11 rifles... Because if they DOooooo,..... I'm going to have some real interest in seeing if a 100 FPE Slug shooter can be massaged out of the cheaply priced guns !
LOL !
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I've shopped too many sites to remember where I ordered them, but it was off ebay. Just cheap rings, but thought they would work because are 10 mm rings and 11 mm rings are too loose. Nope! Rings I got have a cupped base, not flat like the receiver. They simply will not tighten enough to keep from slipping. Nothing I have tried will tighten enough to hold. Very loose! Suggestion to file off the clamp side of each ring would work, but i shouldn't have to do that. The gun should work with some base sold somewhere?
I just checked the 10mm rings I got from the previous link in this topic, and they are cupped also, so I will probably have the same issue. I do have a set of weaver rings and some other f hose low profile Adapters, so you f the 10mm rings don’t work, I’ll just do the weaver with adapter rings and be done with it!
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Any gun selling on the cheap is bound to be using a few short cuts.
The thing that attracted me the most about the Dynamic was the walnut stock.
Just scored a $299 Black wrap BSA .22 Buc to go with my $277 .177 BSA Buc...would much rather have a durable Bolt action than a flimsy lever any day...
You guys can run down Crosman all day long but I know they are not a here today maybe gone tomorrow deal... and proven great customer service... I can still get parts for pumper made long ago also...
Say what you want but Both Crosman and BSA have a 100+ year history... Are BSA and Crosman perfect no... but sorry I feel in many ways they are still big a step above these new popup Chinese companies... I guess we will really see with time.. ;)
tried and true has benefits also...
I feel it is funny how folks run down Crosman to make their choice "Mo Betta"...
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I always cut the dovetails on my receivers so that they are 3/8" across the inside of the groove, which is a whisker less than 10mm.... I thought most rings were universal 3/8"-11mm, with some that require you to flip the clamping plate over.... Isn't a 3/8" dovetail standard on .22 rimfires in the USA?....
Bob
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Just for clarity,
I have never meant to "run down" Crosman products OR their stellar customer service.
I own more Crosmans than any other brand. I LOVE my Crosmans, and how easily they can be tinkered on to result in some VERY FINE shootershe k, one of my favorite guns is my 22xx based carbine that is now producing over 40 FPE , and easily takes GS at 85 to 100 xyz ... And this is with 98% factory supplied Crosman parts !
Can't beat that with a stick ! 😀😀😀
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I must have missed the post that was bashing Crosman, I thought this post was about the DAR Dynamic! I too, have more Crosman products than any other brand, but I'm certainly not opposed to trying something new or different! I own a variety of brands, from Beeman to Umarex, and IMHO, the Benjamin's are some o the best I own! :D
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I've also got the Benjamins and Crosman's too, they're also very modifiable too.
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FedEx just delivered mine, time to go tear into some cardboard! :P
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Pirate:
There are many things about Crosman that are hard to understand, but only because you and I, and others have been spoiled by the great advancement in air gun technologies that have come forth in recent years.
I believe that the high end lines of manufacture are constantly attempting to advance their products and generate newer ideas that show their interest in manufacturing the best that they are capable at making. There is a pride in their work that requires them to be the best that they can be. Sadly, it is missing in Crosman. I own a few Crosman products, so I'm not an air gun snob, but I think that Crosman is losing it's pride, and is now much more of a "bottom line" company, profit driven first, and quality & innovation driven last. Yes, they have come out with some new items in the last couple of years; the Maximus; the Airbow come to mind, but they use no quality materials in their production. Their woods are of low quality, and they use wood sparingly, choosing instead to rely on hollow synthetics and "tinny" sounding thin metals in production. Even the Chinese understand that air gun enthusiasts want quality at a fair price, not junk. I wish that Crosman would advance the quality of it's product line, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride!
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Finally a under 300 bucks with sidelever rather then obsolete bolts
Manny when you look at the moving parts in a lever action system it's probably no more expensive to manufacture than a bolt action.
And that is what kills me,...I can't believe Crosman still makes the Marauder with that junk bolt action.
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I always cut the dovetails on my receivers so that they are 3/8" across the inside of the groove, which is a whisker less than 10mm.... I thought most rings were universal 3/8"-11mm, with some that require you to flip the clamping plate over.... Isn't a 3/8" dovetail standard on .22 rimfires in the USA?....
Bob
X2 ???
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Looks like I got a winner! Here's the post I started on my unboxing and first impressions:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145635.new#new (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145635.new#new)
To summarize, the 10mm scope rings I bought from the link shared in this thread fit perfectly! I was thrilled! My first attempt to air it up resulted in air escaping out the barrel as reported by another member. I dry fired it 3-4 times, cocked it and filled it with no problem. After the first fill, I didn't have to cock it to fill it. Of the pellets i've tried thus far, it seems to like the H&N Sniper Medium pellets. For pictures, groups, and chrony results, check out the link above!
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In the close up it looks suspiciously like walnut stained beech on the stock... really hard to tell except from an end grain close up tho...
http://www.wood-database.com/claro-walnut/ (http://www.wood-database.com/claro-walnut/)
http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/american-beech-endgrain-zoom.jpg (http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/american-beech-endgrain-zoom.jpg)
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Question: Have any of you guys who have contacted Aim Sports Inc asked where you can get spare magazines? I'd like to have at least 2 more to give me a full fills worth of shooting before reloading magazines.
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Yes, I have asked them about that and was told that spare magazines are not yet available, but that they will be in the future, along with other DAR variations. I believe that only after the guns have been accepted by the industry, and other sellers begin carrying them, will spare mags hit the market. SG is not known to carry spare mags for any of the guns it sells. So for now, we are SOL!
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Yes, I have asked them about that and was told that spare magazines are not yet available, but that they will be in the future, along with other DAR variations. I believe that only after the guns have been accepted by the industry, and other sellers begin carrying them, will spare mags hit the market. SG is not known to carry spare mags for any of the guns it sells. So for now, we are SOL!
Thanks Bill! Hopefully, Aim Sports will offer them direct on their website. If so, I'd grab a couple straight away!
One observation I had with these magazines. They almost seem like a combination of the SPA PR900W magazine and the Marauder magazine. The load and look like the PR900W mags, just slightly larger with a higher capacity, but load into the breech like the Marauder magazines. One exception, the Marauder magazines seem to snap into place and the PR900W magazine are held in place by a magnet. These magazines just seem to slide loosely into place, but I have not had it move once it's in place, even while cycling pellets into the chamber.
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You're welcome, Paul!
I usually buy enough mags to fire through an air cycle for every gun I own, so it is a big issue for me, and I explained my thoughts to the Dynamic sales rep when we spoke, so I know he understands our concerns regarding spares.
BTW: If you're interested, MidwayUSA has a clearance on .22 cal. Umarex Gauntlet spare mags as we speak! $7.76 each, and they have 34 of them left. They also have .22 cal. Marauder mags on clearance at $12.50 each. I also told him that many guys wouldn't buy his guns unless spare parts and mags were available, so that should have registered with him too.
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I went for quite some time with only the one mag with my SPA M16 and still had a blast shooting it up until I ordered some parts from Julie at SPA. If they're indeed manufactured by SPA then mags will probably be available direct from SPA but as of now the manufacturer hasn't really been confirmed. When I get mine I'll look for the model number on the manual and contact Julie about it. It was about the same situation for the SPA M16 because I was also a guinea pig for that gun and am still really liking that gun a lot.
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You're welcome, Paul!
I usually buy enough mags to fire through an air cycle for every gun I own, so it is a big issue for me, and I explained my thoughts to the Dynamic sales rep when we spoke, so I know he understands our concerns regarding spares.
BTW: If you're interested, MidwayUSA has a clearance on .22 cal. Umarex Gauntlet spare mags as we speak! $7.76 each, and they have 34 of them left. They also have .22 cal. Marauder mags on clearance at $12.50 each. I also told him that many guys wouldn't buy his guns unless spare parts and mags were available, so that should have registered with him too.
Bill,
I have plenty of .22 mags for both my Mrod and Gauntlet, but that is a really good price. I may just buy a .177 mag to see if it will work, the size and design seems to be the closest to that style.
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I went for quite some time with only the one mag with my SPA M16 and still had a blast shooting it up until I ordered some parts from Julie at SPA. If they're indeed manufactured by SPA then mags will probably be available direct from SPA but as of now the manufacturer hasn't really been confirmed. When I get mine I'll look for the model number on the manual and contact Julie about it. It was about the same situation for the SPA M16 because I was also a guinea pig for that gun and am still really liking that gun a lot.
Wayne,
Not much in the manual that identifies the actual manufacturer. The Model Numbers are DAR177, DAR22 and DAR25. The Brand is Dynamic Air Rifle Systems. The address is listed as 1219 E. Locust Street, Ontario, CA and the phone number is 909-923-7883. The address is the same as what's listed for Aim Sports, but the phone number is different.
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When I get mine today I'll try sliding the mag for my SPA M16 in it to see if it fits and how first shot would line up, if it looks like it would work it might be worth buying mags for the .25 directly from China because mine are .22. They're really nice mags too. I'll know soon enough If mine holds air good I'll clean the barrel and do some chrono shots with it today with 25 cal pellets that I cast, they weigh 34.5 grains. If everything works out I may do some 20 yard groups with it too. The pellets seem to be very accurate out of my Mrod so they should be decent for 20yard groups with the DAR ???
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Wayne, If you have a .25 Mrod, try those mags as well. It would be nice if there were some readily available magazine for these rifles!
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Here's an interesting observation... I was just reading the manual under the Warranty section. Dynamic offers a 1 Year Limited Warranty on these rifles. The manual states that if you need to file a warranty claim, you first need to contact Customer Service at the e-mail address listed on their website for an RMA number. Here's the twist, no where in the manual do they list a website! Nor do they list an e-mail address or make any mention of Aim Sports or any affiliation with Aim Sports. The only connection I made was the address on the back of the manual is the same as the address for Aim Sports! Thankfully, there is a phone number listed on the back of the manual, so hopefully, someone answers because it's a different number than what is listed for Aim Sports. ???
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I just want to get mine back ready to shoot, they should get it by Friday in California to see why it wouldn't take and hold air. Maybe I should have dug into it like others have done and just fix it myself, just didn't want to void any warranties. Also, where would I have gotten any parts for it if I'd needed them. Some of you were braver than I was. I am looking forward to shooting it, will try JSB 18.13 and H&N barracudas first, also picked up a tin of H&N sniper magnums to try in it. My Marauder didn't care for them to well at 30 yds, 11/4" group. :-\ but maybe the DAR will like them. The things I did like where the weight, it seemed pretty lite but had also not mounted the scope yet which will make a lot of difference, also the side lever cycled smoothly but the floppy part was making me crazy, would have to shim that out. The walnut stock I received was rather plain looking but was nice and had no ugly blemishes, and the checkering looked good, it also shouldered well and felt comfortable in hand. For now all I can do is wait and read ya'lls posts. I will send a link to this thread to Walter at Aim Sports so he can follow it as well. ( Sorry thought I was still on the other thread) Whether they fix my original or send a replacement, I just hope it has no further problems and shoots well, as I said before I think these rifles have potential but they gotta get all the bugs worked out if people are going to continue to buy them. Customer support and parts availability are a must have if they are to have a future.
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I reported in the other thread that my DAR lost about 435 psi overnight. I just check it again and there’s no air in the tube at all! It’s sitting on 0, so something just recently gave out! I’ll be giving them a call later to see what they suggest, but it’s pretty apparent something has failed in my rifle.
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I reported in the other thread that my DAR lost about 435 psi overnight. I just check it again and there’s no air in the tube at all! It’s sitting on 0, so something just recently gave out! I’ll be giving them a call later to see what they suggest, but it’s pretty apparent something has failed in my rifle.
Paul Mine did the same thing! On Mine one of the regulator orings failed.. They seemed to small so i installed a little larger oring and have had no trouble sense!
MC Master car Part # 1185N105 is the ones i used
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Thanks Mike! What's odd is I just refilled it (without making any changes) and it's holding air! I did notice the fill port cover was lifted a bit from the fully seated position, so I thought maybe something was up with the fill port. I will keep an eye on it and see. Funny thing was, I keep my air rifles in my office and I was in my office when this apparently happened and I didn't hear a thing. You'd think an air tube discharging approximately 2600 psi of air that quickly would have made some noise!
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Okay, here are pictures of the DAR, SPA, Mrod and Prod magazines next to one another. I have not taken measurements yet, but I did try to slide my .22 Mrod mag into the DAR since it was the same width. It was a NO-GO! First, the SPA and DAR mags feed from the left side of the breech, the Mrod and Prod feed from the right. This wouldn't have been a big deal if the Mrod mag had lined up and snapped in place, but it doesn't. Oh well, looks like we are at the mercy of Dynamic/Aim Sports to get a good supply of mags for us! I just hope they don't try to gouge us like Gamo does on the Urban mags!
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Thanks Mike! What's odd is I just refilled it (without making any changes) and it's holding air! I did notice the fill port cover was lifted a bit from the fully seated position, so I thought maybe something was up with the fill port. I will keep an eye on it and see. Funny thing was, I keep my air rifles in my office and I was in my office when this apparently happened and I didn't hear a thing. You think an air tube discharging approximately 2600 psi of air that quickly would have made some sound!
No kidding! Mine did it in the night.. When i tryed to fill it in th AM it just leaked out the bleed hole in the air tube:( when i pulled it apart the reg oring was pushed out of the groove so i replaced it with the spares that came with the gun the reg was slid in too easy so i went with the larger orings and no more problem
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Okay, here are pictures of the DAR, SPA, Mrod and Prod magazines next to one another. I have not taken measurements yet, but I did try to slide my .22 Mrod mag into the DAR since it was the same width. It was a NO-GO! First, the SPA and DAR mags feed from the left side of the breech, the Mrod and Prod feed from the right. This wouldn't have been a big deal if the Mrod mag had lined up and snapped in place, but it doesn't. Oh well, looks like we are at the mercy of Dynamic/Aim Sports to get a good supply of mags for us! I just hope they don't try to gouge us like Gamo does on the Urban mags!
The sales rep that I spoke with told me that the mags should sell in the range of what we pay for Marauder/Gauntlet mags. If so, that would be great.
Regarding the Gamo Gouge, back before they bought out BSA, those Urban/BSA/Coyote mags were selling for $15-$20 each at PA. Almost overnight, nothing having been changed in quality, the price trippled!!! That's what you call gouging!
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Give this guy an email walter@aimsportsinc.com He's who I have been communicating with by mail.
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I spoke again this afternoon with aimsportinc about this gun.
Was told that they are working to put up a DAR website which will offer parts and accessories for the DAR series.
Mags for all calibers are shipping today from the manufacturer and will be here soon.
Mags will be sold by Sportsman's Guide, currently the exclusive seller of the DAR Dynamic product line.
Regulators are different for each gun by caliber.
Regulated pressures are different by caliber (info coming)
For their testing, they used Weaver rings to mount their scopes.
Weaver series dovetail Part # 49213 & Part # 49212
That's all I have for now.
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Awesome news Bill! Can’t wait to see the new website and order some more magazines. You dint happen to mention the discrepancy in the magazines pictured in the manual and the actual magazines that come with the rifle did you??? The mags pictured in the manual sure look like 10 round Marauder/Gauntlet mags to me!
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What kind of rings are you guys using to scope your guns?
I just received the 10mm rings that I special ordered for mine, but they don't work either? I can't tighten them up? Obviously, the gun cannot be shot accurately unless it is scoped, so i'm up a tree? I don't want to rig some sort of sloppy fix, using shims, and would much prefer to use rings that fit right out of the box.
~ deerflyguy
Bill, had the same problem with a particular rail---no rings would fit tight, so I put a tiny drift pin along one of the grooves and it worked! You could use any pin, even a sewing or a toothpick, lol! Lol but I am not kidding, lol again!
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Well I got mine today and I'm impressed with the power I was getting from it, I was using 34.5 grain pellets and it's getting 15 good regged shots but I think the extra 5 rounds on the second clip will all be good hunting shots. I also took some pics of it as well. The very first shot was 890 fps and that's the most I've gotten from it, I think the reg is goofy on it cause while I was editing photo's of it I heard it let loose of it's air so it's definitely got to come apart. I might do that this evening.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/837/29481228778_4d75f62459_b.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/29481230058_6c5b314ffd_b.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1823/29481229188_a9f280e67c_b.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1808/29481230488_959d29204f_b.jpg)
Here's a 20 shot string to show what it's doing right now
1. 825.3fps 52.1fpe 11. 807.2fps 49.9fpe
2. 823.5fps 51.9fpe 12 814.0fps 50.7fpe
3. 821.7fps 51.7fpe 13. 814.1fps 50.7fpe
4. 815.6fps 50.9fpe 14. 816.2fps 51.0fpe
5. 817.2fps 51.1fpe 15. 806.5fps 49.8fpe
6. 813.7fps 50.7fpe 16. 798.8fps 48.8fpe
7. 822.5fps 51.8fpe 17. 784.4fps 47.1fpe
8. 810.8fps 50.3fpe 18. 785.4fps 47.2fpe
9. 817.0fps 51.1fpe 19. 775.6fps 46.0fpe
10. 825.2fps 52.1fpe 20. 771.4fps 45.5fpe
Not too shabby for out of the box, now I need to take it apart and give it some TLC 8) I think I'm gonna like this gun. Much lighter than my Mrod and good power.
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Wayne, take some pictures as you tear it down, I may have to do the same. Mine dumped all its air on me this morning, but after refilling it’s held air all day! It sure is odd.
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Basically I think these guns have been sitting for quite a while, I'm not so sure these are SPA cause the fill probe is smaller in diameter then my SPA M16, and all my other SPA's, the clips don't have a magnet on them either like the more inexpensive SPA's. I think this could easily be a 60fpe gun without the regulator in it but you probably wouldn't want to start your string any higher than 2800psi. I see that they do use a barrel connector on these like they do with the SPA M16 which is good cause you don't need to drill a port in the barrel it's in the connector. I'll probably check the size of the port when I have it out, if it's not .171 I'll eventually make it so.
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I would be very interested in the plenum volume in the .25 cal.... When you pull it apart, please measure it up....
Bob
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Heck Bob I done got it back together already, it's holding air good so far, not really sure what caused it to dump the air like it did but I did find a little debris down in the poppet area, it's a monoblock so it might be kinda tricky measuring the plenum ???
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I spoke again this afternoon with aimsportinc about this gun.
Was told that they are working to put up a DAR website which will offer parts and accessories for the DAR series.
Mags for all calibers are shipping today from the manufacturer and will be here soon.
Mags will be sold by Sportsman's Guide, currently the exclusive seller of the DAR Dynamic product line.
Regulators are different for each gun by caliber.
Regulated pressures are different by caliber (info coming)
For their testing, they used Weaver rings to mount their scopes.
Weaver series dovetail Part # 49213 & Part # 49212
That's all I have for now.
Bill I took the regulator out and looked it over but didn't take it apart, I did notice it had 149 written on it with a sharpie so I'm figuring it's set at 149 bar, the gauge on the gun is inaccurate too, when I fill it to 3K it reads a little over and it's probably dropping off the reg right at about 150 bar.
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It is what it is, but every day we learn a little more about them.
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In the close up it looks suspiciously like walnut stained beech on the stock... really hard to tell except from an end grain close up tho...
http://www.wood-database.com/claro-walnut/ (http://www.wood-database.com/claro-walnut/)
http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/american-beech-endgrain-zoom.jpg (http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/american-beech-endgrain-zoom.jpg)
I haven't seen a pic of one with a walnut stock yet; they've all been beech.
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I'm kinda wondering about that too Victor ??? Well Mine leaked out again throughout the night, time to pull it back apart again, this time I think I'll replace all the o rings cause I think it's leaking past one of them.
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Well I've come to the conclusion that these guns are genuine JUNK!!!!
I basically wasted $300+, it's enough to make me want to throw in the towel with this one.
Buyers BEWARE you'll be sorry!!! I wish I had been one of the smart ones and sent it back, at least I would have gotten some of my money back before trying to take it apart, I'm at a dead end on the allen that holds the lever in, it's corroded to the point I think that it won't come out. Probably the best that I can do is wait til parts are available for this gun if I want to get it working good.
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Well I've come to the conclusion that these guns are genuine JUNK!!!!
I have to laugh! No doubt the machining tolerances are WAY below high quality... and the tinker factor may ware thin on some! But
I will say for A cheap gun it has a great barrel It shoots most any pellet more than good enough for hunting, Its light weight and quiet! That said mine has held air for 4 days now after the reg orings :)
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I have not attempted to disassemble this air rifle, so I can't really comment on fit/finish/workmanship of the internals. Mine has not lost air since it did it's mystery air dump yesterday morning. I do want to figure a way to tighten the slop in the cocking lever, but even in it's currently floppy state it loads pellets smoother than any of the bolt action rifles I own, and i have yet to have a jam or double feed, something I can't say about the other mag fed rifles I own. For the money, so far I am pleased. It does have a 1 year warranty, so as hard as it will be to resist the temptation to tear into it, I think I will try the best I can to hold off on this one just to see how things go. That way if something does have a catastrophic failure I can invoke the warranty and have it fixed or replaced.
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I seen someone mention they could tell by a cross section if the stock was walnut or not so I took the butt pad off for a photo but seriously I can't tell if it's walnut or not. ???
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1821/43363931501_5cec09b24d_b.jpg)
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I think it probably is beech because it just looks too light colored to be walnut IMO.
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Well I've come to the conclusion that these guns are genuine JUNK!!!!
I have to laugh! No doubt the machining tolerances are WAY below high quality... and the tinker factor may ware thin on some! But
I will say for A cheap gun it has a great barrel It shoots most any pellet more than good enough for hunting, Its light weight and quiet! That said mine has held air for 4 days now after the reg orings :)
I haven't taken the reg apart yet, I will do that next, could you tell by visual inspection that the oring was bad?
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I think I found the culprit, it's one of the big orings on the outside of the regulator. I started to open up the regulator but cut myself short and thought maybe it was the ones on the outside that Mike was talking about.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/29496177598_08db12801c_b.jpg)
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Well I've come to the conclusion that these guns are genuine JUNK!!!!
I have to laugh! No doubt the machining tolerances are WAY below high quality... and the tinker factor may ware thin on some! But
I will say for A cheap gun it has a great barrel It shoots most any pellet more than good enough for hunting, Its light weight and quiet! That said mine has held air for 4 days now after the reg orings :)
I haven't taken the reg apart yet, I will do that next, could you tell by visual inspection that the oring was bad?
Wayne it was pushed out of the groove!! What are you pointing to the pic is hard to see
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Mike if you click on the photo it's easy to see in full view.
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I seen someone mention they could tell by a cross section if the stock was walnut or not so I took the butt pad off for a photo but seriously I can't tell if it's walnut or not. ???
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1821/43363931501_5cec09b24d_b.jpg)
That was me I am not a super expert but have studied wood identification a good bit since a youngster and from the rays it does look like some sort of European or Asian beech to me... have never seen walnut that is that light either...
would need at least a 10x loupe to be sure... but petty durn sure it is not Walnut...
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Kirby:
I don't believe that I have ever seen Asian walnut either, thus perhaps we don't really know what the grain of select-grade Asian walnut should look like? When I first saw the stocks of the Dynamic, they didn't look like walnut to me either, but I figured I could have gotten a stock with plain grain, and wasn't ready to doubt that the company would promote select-grain walnut and give us something else? I'm still not certain what we have here? Worst comes to worst, we have some sort of hardwood that is stained a walnut color? It looks nice, but should be what we thought we bought.
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Did it say walnut or Asian walnut... there is no such thing as Asian Walnut it is a marketing term for Acacia...
Walnut is of the family Juglandaceae, Acacia trees are members of the family Fabaceae...
Here is a bit about Acacia...
http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/acacia.htm (http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/acacia.htm)
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I've had my .22 apart so many time now that I could do it in my sleep. In regards to the side lever allen head pin, I had the same issue, along with striping out one of the barrel shroud allen set screws when I had to remedy my pellet clipping issue. Here's what I did. Gently tap a T7 Torex bit/driver into the stripped 1.5mm allen bolt. The metal they use for the bolts is softer than the Torex bits I have, and the T7 will give you some serious bite. They should come right out. You can reuse the the set screws and the pin. The T7 straking that results inside the 1.5mm head is cleaner than the original allen. Hopes this helps.
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I know what it is, it's select walnut stain. LMBO they just forgot the word stain is all .lol
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It only referred to walnut. I did look in Wikipedia though, and they say there that, in 2014, China produced nearly half of the world's production of walnuts! That should infer that they do indeed have the walnut tree - and many more than found anywhere else. Not far from China, is Indonesia, which produces Sepatia, which is called Indonesian walnut, and is used in the stocks found on the Evanix line of air guns. Someone smarter than me will have to rule on this question?
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Yes, Wayne, the stocks have been stained, probably with walnut color, but over what kind of wood?
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I know what it is, it's select walnut stain. LMBO they just forgot the word stain is all .lol
LOL RIGHT!!! Its Beech
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Maybe we should do a DNA test on it to see what it really is! LOL! I'm surprised it's not Bamboo!
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Whatever wood it is, we would have bought it anyway. It looks nice.
We'd have paid that much for a synthetic stocked regulated air gun.
Last year, we did just that!
The Umarex Gauntlet!
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I gave this link to Walter at Aim Sports, just wish he would register with GTA and post here to clear some of this stuff up for us. Sorry to hear more are having problems be it whatever they are. Have to agree that there are indeed quality issues, but will reserve further judgment until I get mine back and see how it shoots. Although I don't expect it to shoot like a $1000 FX or Daystate, I would like to see it hold together none the less and at least be serviceable. Heck, look at some of the little set scews on a Disco or 22xx whatever, even some of the American made guns have issues. But now that I think about it, suspect that a lot of the parts on Crosman guns are made in China too.
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Correct.
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Whatever wood it is, we would have bought it anyway. It looks nice.
We'd have paid that much for a synthetic stocked regulated air gun.
Last year, we did just that!
The Umarex Gauntlet!
Couldn't agree more!
I knew fully when i puchased that we knew nothing about this gun except that it was made in china.
Also knew that meant i would most likely be tinkering with it from day 1 and it wasnt gonna be a german engineered , work of art, just unbox and shoot kinda rifle..
Imho for the $ i payed for it , i couldnt be happier!
Ive been waiting for an inexpensive ,accurate side lever rifle for a long time.
This gun checks all 3 of those boxes for me.
So u really do get what u pay for most the time, and at $269 to my door my expectations where not very high.
Guess thats why im happy with my purchase...
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Rhett, I agree 100%! I replaced the regulator o-rings this morning due to one having a large chunk of rubber missing from it! While I had it apart, I removed the cocking lever pin and added a brass washer I made from a YH Compressor burst disk. That really tightened up that sloppy lever and made it feel much sturdier. I also noticed the regulator appears to be adjustable, and the plug that retains the hammer spring can also be adjusted to increase/decrease hammer spring the So, all in all, it is a pretty tweak able rifle for the money!
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Rhett, I agree 100%! I replaced the regulator o-rings this morning due to one having a large chunk of rubber missing from it! While I had it apart, I removed the cocking lever pin and added a brass washer I made from a YH Compressor burst disk. That really tightened up that sloppy lever and made it feel much sturdier. I also noticed the regulator appears to be adjustable, and the plug that retains the hammer spring can also be adjusted to increase/decrease hammer spring the So, all in all, it is a pretty tweak able rifle for the money!
I just noticed , the entire tube and breech appears to be machined from one block , pretty cool!
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It's a monoblock design. I haven't figured out how my trigger mecha has to be reassembled, maybe I'll work on it soon ???
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I finally figured the durned thing out, it's back together and holding air. I never should have tore into the thing like I did when I did because I wasn't in the greatest mood and had no business working on anything at the time. The trigger mecha was something so simple I'm ashamed to admit it but now I do know fully how this gun ticks now. The culprit was an o ring on the regulator like Mike said with his, if I had just taken what he had found out to begin with a lot of the problems never would have happen.
One thing I can say is I cleaned up all the corrosion that was inside this thing and there was a lot of it. It actually looks like salty air is what caused it and probably on the slow boat from China is where it picked up that salt. Without protection against corrosion it took it's toll but I guess what can one expect for the price of these guns. I still really wish that they indeed had walnut stocks like SG said they had.
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I just mounted a scope on it, now I'm going to see how it's shooting after a few hours, I think I finally got the thing cured finally. The scope I put on it already had the 11mm mounts on it so just for the heck of it I tightened them up for a rock solid fit, I didn't need the 10mm rings after all, the 11mm's fit perfect. Now I hope the scope is good because it's one that I picked up at the airgun show last year but never really put it to use but I'll soon find out. I'll probably start out with 25.39's in it cause I've got a full tin of those, the ones that I've been casting are a little snug in the clip and make it a little finicky for chambering the next round. I have to move it around a little to get the next pellet to locate.
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Hey Wayne, glad to hear you got everything back together again! That had to be frustrating with a brand new air rifle. I've got mine holding air as well. I had the same problem as you and Mike, the regulator o-ring had a rather large chunk of rubber missing.
I think the reason my acted so odd, total air dump, but then held air again for 2 days, followed by another total air dump, was because the chunk of rubber ended up stuck in the vent hole of the air tube. It must have been acting like a cork to hold the air. It wasn't until I started picking at it, wondering what the heck it was, that it let go again.
I am happy to say that I did not see any corrosion when I tore it down and reassembled it multiple times as I tried to find an o-ring that would work and hold air. I think I finally got the right size, or at least one that is working for now. Just curious, what is the serial number on your rifle? Mine is: DW17120002 I'm wondering is the build date was Dec 2017 based on the 1712 portion of the number? I'm also curious to know if it was the second .177 they made based on the 0002?
I'm hoping to get some trigger time today and see if it's settled down any. I may also try and play with the hammer spring adjustment to see if it has any impact on power.
Anyhoo, congrats on getting yours working! I sure hope that after all that it's a shooter!
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Glad to see you both got them working again. Wayne, I've learned to take pictures when I disassemble something with more than a couple parts, the old noggin just doesn't retain short-term info like it used to. If something pulls my attention away for even a moment I forget where I was at, and the sequence it goes back together in. Of course this is only a problem with stuff I'm not familiar with. It's a shame how age creeps up on ya.
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Paul mine is DW17120074 so yours must have been the second one and mine must be 74. Mine is a .25 and the magazine needs some work on it too. All the corrosion was in the trigger mechanism on mine but that's the stuff that gets exposed to that salt air, if you open up you trigger mecha you might see some corrosion but they're a pain to get back together. I did shoot two dime sized groups at about 20 yards with it this morning.
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If any of you guys still have issues with the reg orings I also found the air tube to be rough inside and a sharp edge were the reg has to slide in so i used a wheel cylinder hone to clean and knock the sharp edge off !! Mike
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Paul mine is DW17120074 so yours must have been the second one and mine must be 74. Mine is a .25 and the magazine needs some work on it too. All the corrosion was in the trigger mechanism on mine but that's the stuff that gets exposed to that salt air, if you open up you trigger mecha you might see some corrosion but they're a pain to get back together. I did shoot two dime sized groups at about 20 yards with it this morning.
Interesting, I wonder if the serial numbers are all generic or specific to a caliber? Seems they are pretty generic.
After reading your problem with the trigger assembly, I’m pretty gun shy about tearing into it. I took the stock off the other night specifically with the intent of taking a picture of the trigger assembly to help you get yours back together. Almost as soon as I pulled the stock, the trigger pivot pin slide out and hit the floor! I got it back in and after looking things over could not figure out how to get into it, so I put painters tape on both side to prevent any other pins from sliding out. I guess I was expecting a trigger assembly like Crosman uses where I could just remove a side cover and click a picture of everything where it belongs. Doesn’t appear that’s how these work.
So, out of curiosity, how do you disassemble the trigger assembly? Do you just remove pins and slide everything in and out from the bottom? If so, it sounds akin to building a ship in a bottle and if that’s the case I’m not sure I’m willing to tackle that project!
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If any of you guys still have issues with the reg orings I also found the air tube to be rough inside and a sharp edge were the reg has to slide in so i used a wheel cylinder hone to clean and knock the sharp edge off !! Mike
Mike, I was actually surprised at how smooth the inside is of my air tube was. I had runs a big piece of cotton t-shirt material through it a couple time with the intent of seeing how dirty it was and if the material had any snag indicating the presence of burrs. I was surprised when it came out clean and snag free.
What is the serial number on your rifle? Seems QC dropped pretty quickly between my build and Wayne’s!
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Can anyone here provide a pic of the vent hole for the reg ?
Where is it located ? And where is it in relation to the reg/orings/etc. ? And what is it "venting" ?
I am hoping to be able to remove the reg when ours arrives... And I'm wondering if this "vent hole" of which you speak is going to prevent that ?
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It is probably going to be another week or so before my buddies arrives. It had to take a detour through Az before coming to Kalifornistan.
Once it gets here, we are hoping to do a max power slug pusher with it, so hopefully we can remove the reg altogether... But we need to know more about this vent hole and if that is going to create an issue.
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Ron the vent hole is about 4 3/4" from the back of the airtube
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/835/43403435701_14190e1573_b.jpg)
I also had to fix the lever pin which is originally what got me to open up the trigger mecha along with the fact that my trigger adjustment screw was seized up and that's when I started seeing the corrosion, everything got brass brushed the best I could with some Hoppes #9 on it.
All the pins are knurled on one end and I had to repunch the lever pin into the steel connecting rod because it was already spinning in the aluminum lever. She's in there tight now.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/43403035201_44aa0bc039_b.jpg)
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Ron I don't know if your friend ordered the 25 or not but my regulator has 149 written on it with a sharpie, that must be what they set the 25 cals at because mine drops off at about 150 bar.
Also I got the tighter groups with my cast 34.5 grainers, I tried the 25.39 grain but the group wasn't near as tight, they might have been going too fast. Mine does 50+fpe the way the reg was set.
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The vent hole on the airtube is between the two big o rings on the regulater. It must be the valve poppet can handle much over the regged pressure that's supposed to be in there and it opens up the poppet and dumps the air. Everything is adjustable on this gun, the poppet spring also. Ron I'm sure you'll be tinkering with this one for a while.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/29496177598_08db12801c_b.jpg)
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Here's another picture of the vent hole, it's right under the edge of the stock, you can see where it was blowing some oil out. Mine was plugged by a chunk of rubber that blew off one of the o-rings (same o-ring Wayne is showing above). It held for 2 days before giving our completely, so I'm not sure how you'd plug it unless you could put some epoxy of liquid weld in the inside of the tube to seal it off.
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It is probably going to be another week or so before my buddies arrives. It had to take a detour through Az before coming to Kalifornistan.
Once it gets here, we are hoping to do a max power slug pusher with it, so hopefully we can remove the reg altogether... But we need to know more about this vent hole and if that is going to create an issue.
got a lathe ? make a sleeve, same od and lenght as the reg with 2 o-ring grooves
you can always reinstall the reg if desired
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I did a chrony test using 34.5 grain cast pellets, this gun ain't what you call a slouch, I do hope the regulator settles in better than this.
Using cast pellets works out good because I recover all the lead after I do a chrony test to melt down for more pellets.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1770/43359863112_7987416a38_b.jpg)
This is one gun that I really couldn't do an out of the box chrony test cause it really wasn't working good from the get go.
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That's pretty solid, 20 shots at 50 FPE.
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Dang! That is pretty impressive. We’re all 20 shots off one fill? How was the accuracy?
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Yes it was, these things are a powerhouse, now hopefully it's going to keep holding air, if it doesn't I'll go buy a dozen good nitrile 70 duro at Menards tomorrow if it dumps before tomorrow. The accuracy I got with it this morning was 2 dime sized groups with the same pellets at 20 yards.
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FedEx brought my Dynamic yesterday. I was concerned about finding scope rings that would fit, so started trying different rings I had lying around. 3/8" dovetail (standard .22 Lr.) rings fit perfectly. I had two sets, different brands, so 3/8 dovetail bases are what these guns have. I did a search on amazon they have a good selection of 3/8 scope rings. Hope this helps. Charlie
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I did about 50 more shots over the chrony this morning, while reclaiming the pellets for the melter I came across one that was picture worthy
I think after another 1000 rounds through this gun the accuracy will probably improve, the main reason for the chrony tests was to see if the
regulator was going to settle in good, it's doing decent but it will probably change after another hundred rounds
Well she seems to be holding air good but I just don't trust those o rings that came with it, I'll still be getting some good nitrile ones.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1770/41614034400_0653c318e9_m.jpg)
The outside diameter of these cast pellets is the same as the JSB 33.95 MKII's and I think for those of you who got the 25 cal it'll give you
an idea of what kind of performance you might expect from these guns.
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FedEx brought my Dynamic yesterday. I was concerned about finding scope rings that would fit, so started trying different rings I had lying around. 3/8" dovetail (standard .22 Lr.) rings fit perfectly. I had two sets, different brands, so 3/8 dovetail bases are what these guns have. I did a search on amazon they have a good selection of 3/8 scope rings. Hope this helps. Charlie
Charles I had a UTG scope that already had 11mm rings on it and it bolted up to my gun perfect.
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Wayne (new here not sure how to do the quote thingy). In previous post some people are having trouble getting their 11mm rings to tighten up properly. Some rings are listed to fit 3/8 to 11mm, some are not. I was just saying instead of ordering some exotic 10mm European rings, 3/8 will work.
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Charles:
I'm the guy who originally cannot get 11 mm rings to tighten enough to function.
I tried several brands, new from the package, and they do not tighten enough - slip right off.
I think you're right that 3/8" .22 dovetail rings will work if tried.
3/8" equates to 9.5 mm and that should do it - I hope!
I ordered Weaver #49219 rings, which should arrive tomorrow afternoon.
I think they will work, and I soon shall see?
I still don't believe that rings meant specifically for 11 mm can be fitted to the Dynamic 10 mm rail unless the ring base is milled down a bit, or some other jury rigging is done.
The 3/8" to 11 mm rings might be made so universally as to work though too, I suspect so, but I don't know for sure?
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3/8 .22 tip-off rings definitely works on mine. Haven't been able to air up my gun yet, am waiting on compressor oil (Tuesday). Changed oil in my Yong Heng and came up a little short. Have my fingers crossed, hope my Dynamic is one of the good ones. For the money I am impressed so far.
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Guys, 3/8” rings are larger than 11mm. 3/8” is the measurement to the inside of the groove, whereas 11mm is measured to the outside of the groove. 3/8” rings will usually measure more like 12 - 13mm.
It doesn’t make sense that they would work better on a 10mm rail.
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11mm=.433", 10mm=.393", 3/8"=.375"=9.52mm, if my math is correct. I tried 2 different brands of 3/8 rings, they both worked.
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Charles:
I'm the guy who originally cannot get 11 mm rings to tighten enough to function.
I tried several brands, new from the package, and they do not tighten enough - slip right off.
I think you're right that 3/8" .22 dovetail rings will work if tried.
3/8" equates to 9.5 mm and that should do it - I hope!
I ordered Weaver #49219 rings, which should arrive tomorrow afternoon.
I think they will work, and I soon shall see?
I still don't believe that rings meant specifically for 11 mm can be fitted to the Dynamic 10 mm rail unless the ring base is milled down a bit, or some other jury rigging is done.
The 3/8" to 11 mm rings might be made so universally as to work though too, I suspect so, but I don't know for sure?
Sent this to you last week but you might have missed it. Rather than wait for your Weaver ring, why don't you try this simple remedy? Lol!
Bill, had the same problem with a particular rail---no rings would fit tight, so I put a tiny drift pin along one of the grooves and it worked! You could use any pin, even a sewing or a toothpick, lol! Lol but I am not kidding, lol again!
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Hoople, yes 3/8” is smaller than 11mm but they are not dimensioned the same way.
In scope rings, 3/8” is larger than 11mm. I’m glad they worked, just saying it does not make sense.
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Jason, no problem I understand what you are saying. I may have just gotten lucky.
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I tried that scope on my SPA M16 right after I brought it back from the airgun show, I already had a BSA scope coming for it at the time. The one that I have on my DAR is a 3-12x40 EZ Tap, I only paid $20 for it used so I did get a decent deal on it. I do like the double cross hairs on it, they're very thin and don't cover anything up when you're looking through it. If my gun is still holding air on Tuesday morning I'll be out in the woods with it, I might even try to sneak up on a Ghog if I can spot any in the bean field.
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Guys
I have had the same thing happen on the ring bases, take a look at the locking side of the base, the tab/bar with the holes that move,
I have found that on a couple of different set of "No name" brand rings, there is a thickness/length of the beveled part of the bar ears.
There is a length/depth difference, one side slightly longer in depth than the other side,when measured.
I changed to the other side/180* rotation of this bar and had no problems so far.
HTH,
Tia,
Don
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Charles:
Yes, I did get your response a few days ago, regarding the use of a drift pin to shim out the ring base and make it fit the situation. I do not want to cobb up a fix for the situation when I know that there has to be an out of the box set of rings that will work, and I only have to find them.
I have three rifles to scope, and what you're suggesting would entail shimming six rings.
The way I look at it, I have three brand new rifles, three brand new scopes, and I want three brand new sets of proper rings to complete the scoping jobs. Unless any, or all of my guns are somehow defective internally, I'm keeping my fingers out of the innards, too, as I do not want to void any of the warranties either. From the reports of others, there might well be internal problems from rust to "O" ring failures, and I'm not at all sure where the issue of the stocks will go? SG or Aimsport might owe us all some sort of compensation for not providing correctly described products? Will the guns hold air? Are the stocks really select-grade walnut, or much cheaper walnut stained hardwood?
I think it prudent to take it slow with these guns and not make any easily preventable mistakes, at least until some as yet unanswered questions have been resolved.
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Did any of you really expect Select-grade walnut at that price point ?
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Manny I was thinking it was probably an introductory offer by the way they advertised it. It was a good way for them to get people to order them, otherwise I might not have jumped on it.
Select walnut should be walnut I would think ???
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Pirate:
That was my main buying point! I love walnut and was expecting to get walnut! They wrote the product description! I'm not sure how anyone can misrepresent "select-grade walnut" from walnut stained hardwood? I wonder if the guns were supposed to have select-grade walnut stocks, but the manufacturer was duped by its Chinese factory and didn't know that they were sent walnut stained hardwood instead of select-grade walnut? There were only 400 guns in the first order from China, and in their hurry to get the guns into the hands of their dealer, SG, perhaps they didn't know the difference? I really don't believe that they misrepresented the guns on purpose? It doesn't make any sense?
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Honestly, in today's world of deciving advertising I really don't believe much.
When Crosman was trying to make it sound like the Marauder was made in America, you could tell at that price point it wasn't true, when someone tells you a rifle is coming with select grade walnut at under 300 bucks, that's a red flag indeed,
Price will reflect reality,....but clever advertising does make sales :)
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Did any of you really expect Select-grade walnut at that price point ?
Hahaha X2,
I certainly did not (and do not) expect real walnut on these guns. I figured all along that the confusion probably came from a misinterpreted translation from a Chinese description being translated into English language.
We see it all the time on Chinese products and owners manuals written in English by a Chinese translator.
Real Walnut ? - no way
Walnut color Stain on Beech wood ? - most likely
Thinking there will be any sort of Compensation from SG , AimSport, or Dynamic ? That is just not realistic thinking. No way that is going to happen. JMO
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Many rings have a steel side plate that you tighten to lock the rings in place. Rotate the plate with the claw 180 degrees, and it should now fit. It is meant for two different sizes rails.
Knife
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Many rings have a steel side plate that you tighten to lock the rings in place. Rotate the plate with the claw 180 degrees, and it should now fit. It is meant for two different sizes rails.
Knife
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Mine is still holding air good yet, I did measure those o rings and by the dimensions I'd say it's an 020 I was thinking about ordering some from ebay but I'd rather go to Menard's and match them up, they sell them individually very cheap, I'll probably get a dozen of the 70duro nitrile ones they have, I've read really good reports on their nitrile orings there. I think the Chinese o rings are the main problem on the reg o rings myself.
The last time I took it apart I figured I had two left from the o ring kit that came with it and I went ahead and put both new o rings on it and that's almost 2 days ago, I also shot it about 50 times filling it back up to 3K each time, It's still right at 3K too.
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Well what do you know?
My rings came today and I already mounted three scopes in about 1-1/2 hours, which is as it should be.
It really helps to have rings that were made to fit right out of the bubble pack.
FYI - They are Weaver Grand Slam, 1" Extra-High - Matte, .22 cal Scope rings for 3/8" Grooved Receivers.
Even extra high rings are just barely enough to clear the barrel with a 50 mm objective lens.
Unless you are using a side focus scope, you might have a problem adjusting the objective lens or you might have to use BKL base mount risers - dovetail to dovetail?
For sure, you will want to use your scope without the flip up caps in place.
For this reason, if you want to use the flip up caps, you might not want to use any scope with an objective lens greater than 44 mm - and then, that will entail using extra high rings.
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Good news, got an email from Rich Neighbor at Aim Sports and they are sending me a brand new rifle to replace the one I sent back. They're also sending it 3 day and it shipped today so I should have it by weeks end at the latest. I hope they pressure tested the new one before sending it out, would hate to go through this again. Wish me luck. Glad to hear others are having good experiences with theirs, am really impressed with the FPE numbers on the 25 cal, almost makes me wish I had ordered it but wanted a regulated plinking gun with enough power for small pests. Keep the reports coming guys as I think they're watching, more than I can say about ..... never mind.
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I wish you the best of luck Tom !!! I know mine has been a real PIA to try to get sealed and working right. It had a slow leak after I sealed it on my last post, I took it back apart and found some weird fibrous material that had been wrapped under two other o rings that was obviously a jury rig from the factory to get it to kinda seal. The orings were just plain junk that come in the gun and the extra set they send with them are junk too, they split crack and won't hold up. I've hopefully got some better o rings coming that are the buna n duro70 nitrile ones and hopefully they're the right size.
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I wish you the best of luck Tom !!! I know mine has been a real PIA to try to get sealed and working right. It had a slow leak after I sealed it on my last post, I took it back apart and found some weird fibrous material that had been wrapped under two other o rings that was obviously a jury rig from the factory to get it to kinda seal. The orings were just plain junk that come in the gun and the extra set they send with them are junk too, they split crack and won't hold up. I've hopefully got some better o rings coming that are the buna n duro70 nitrile ones and hopefully they're the right size.
Wayne i found the same stuff !! Its like they were trying to shim the orings . i removed it all and used the larger orings It is a fun gun to shoot!
Mike
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Why do you suppose they would jury rig the "O" rings rather than put some decent ones into a new gun that they should want to launch without a hitch? Are good "O" rings a budget buster?
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Bill I can't imagen what the deal is with orings in china ! But the ones that come with my YH compressor and this rifle were very poor quality!
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I took it back apart and found some weird fibrous material that had been wrapped under two other o rings that was obviously a jury rig from the factory to get it to kinda seal.
The old dental floss under the O-ring trick, eh Chief? Looks like they missed the O-ring groove depth by that much...
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sBlhrTpi69E/maxresdefault.jpg)
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That's a good one, Victor!
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I'd like to obtain a selection of replacement "O" rings for current and future use in air gun repairs. Can anyone suggest what sort of selection I should get, and of what quality? How do you guys know what sizes to obtain, or keep on hand? Do SAE and metric full sets make sense, or should I just keep certain sizes around - those that are more prone to failure?
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I'd like to obtain a selection of replacement "O" rings for current and future use in air gun repairs. Can anyone suggest what sort of selection I should get, and of what quality? How do you guys know what sizes to obtain, or keep on hand? Do SAE and metric full sets make sense, or should I just keep certain sizes around - those that are more prone to failure?
I know this is not exactly what you were looking for in an answer, but it would be very difficult to list "most used" sizes of orings considering we all have various guns, brands, models etc.
That being said,
a few of the guys in my group have the standard "o-ring Assortment packs" from HF, and they have saved a day of shooting several times for quick "in field fixes".
Sure,... I know they may not be a "Perfect fit", but on SEVERAL occaisions we have found a sutiable size between the SAE and/or Metric sized assortment packs to get a quick fix while in the field.
The assortment packs are only around $6 - $8 for over 200 orings in the pack.
Not a very big investment to have them along in the shooting bag.
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I agree 100% with Ron. The HF assortments are great to have around for occasional fixes. Mine has saved the day many times and they are surprisingly good quality. Haven't yet had a bad one and their longevity has been on a par with O-rings bought from other sources.
https://www.harborfreight.com/382-piece-o-ring-assortment-67554.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/382-piece-o-ring-assortment-67554.html)
https://www.harborfreight.com/397-piece-metric-o-ring-assortment-67580.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/397-piece-metric-o-ring-assortment-67580.html)
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Jason & Ron:
I'm mostly concerned in getting the correct rings in size and quality that will probably work for multiple air gun types.
I'm not concerned at what they might cost, as I want strength and longevity when I repair something, and will pay what it takes to get it. I've been looking at Amazon for what they sell. Would you recommend one brand/kit over another?
What I really want to know is the best quality and that I will have a good chance of having what I need in a kit, when I need it. Am I correct that I might need both SAE and Metric sizes, or are air guns mainly metric? Is one brand of ring better than another?
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I'm tempted to make a trip to Harbor Freight tomorrow and get both of the kits that Jason has listed there. The o rings from there do seem to work good and I've been using them for about a year now but I had one Nitrile kit and 1 Viton kit that I got from there that were the smaller kits(both sae). I've got two of the Viton's on the regulator right now that seemed to cure the air dump that a lot have been having but it's now still got the slow leak. I'd really like to get this gun sealed right before taking it out hunting. I doubt it's a fill probe o ring leaking that slow, usually they totally fail when they do, I'm suspecting one of the big ones on either end of the airtube is where it's happening but I guess it could be the undersize vitons I have on the regulator ???
Needless to say is that having a 300cc tank these guns do take a considerable amount of air to fill them and even filling from my 88cf tanks this gun will hog that air fast if I keep having to fill it from zero a lot.
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There is more to know about orings than any average mortal (me) can possibly comprehend.
All I know is, some are harder, some are softer, some tear easier, some are more permeable to Co2 vs. air.
and they all come in different sizes, thicknesses.
but, if one of the more superior minds here can't provide a suitable answer,
then maybe this will have the answers you seek ...
https://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf (https://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf)
(Happy reading) ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D
For me,... I just use the HF orings, and if the assortment pack does not have what I need,... then it's off to the hardware store to see what I can find.
If that doesn't work,... I head to a local industrial hardware supplier. We have one here about 20 miles from me called "McFadden-Dale Industrial Hardware", that has a good assortment of sizes and types.
And if THAT doesn't work, I go here...
https://www.alliedpackingandrubber.com/index.php/products/seals (https://www.alliedpackingandrubber.com/index.php/products/seals)
I'm sure if you do a little googling in your area for a rubber supplier, you will find something similar to the above linked business.
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Thanks guys!
I think I've learned just enough about "O" rings to be dangerous to myself!
It's amazing how much there is to know about something so simple!
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Just my 2 cents, I have both o-ring kits from Harbor Freight and neither had an o-ring that really fit and held air in my DAR177. I found them either too thick to where they would not properly seat into the groove, or too thin to where they fit but weren’t thick enough to provide a good seal. I also have one of the kits from Amazon and there wasn’t really a perfect fit in that kit either, I was able to stretch a smaller diameter o-ring that was the proper thickness and get it seated into the grooves. So far it’s holding air just fine, but because it is stretched to fit, I’m not sure how long it will last. But fior now it’s working so I’m not going to mess with them till they start leaking.
I aired it up to 3000 psi Sunday afternoon after I finished some testing and I’m traveling this week, so it’s getting an endurance test while I’m away! If anyone (Wayne) does figure out the correct size o-ring for these air rifles, please post the size here. I’ll definately be getting some spares to have on hand.
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You guys get to cleaning your barrels, testing pellets and posting some 30, 40 or 50 yard groups. I'm squirming in my chair to hear if this is a thumbs up or thumbs down rifle. He, he.
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Got to shoot my DAR22 late evening yesterday ( had been waiting on compressor oil). Tried to air up gun, nothing. Oh no! Then I remembered to cock the darn thing, aired right up. Went out to range and shot at 25 yards, got scope near zeroed. Moved out to 50 yards and fine tuned zero. I was shooting Crosman 14.3 grs. Figured I would shoot those for a while until regulator settled etc. Shot 20 shots total, the last 5 shots I shot for a group which was in a tight little cluster of what looked to be about 1/2" or a little less (ran out of light). Was going to shoot today but has rained all morning, hopefully I can shoot some this weekend.
You guys have a lot more experience with PCPs than me, but that said, so far I am impressed with my DAR to say the least. BTW, still holding air today.
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Charlie, that sounds great! Thanks for the update. I hope some of the other guys have results that good. My first thought was about the Yong Heng compressor and various knock offs. Hard to beat the price, but you must be willing to do a little tinkering from time to time.
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I did a boo boo, accidentally open the regulator up too far, the lock nut was loose when I opened it up and I took a wild guess where it should be set, well I was wrong
Geez this thing is capable of some power. 34.5 grain pellets
1. 937.5 = 67.34fpe
2. 934.6 = 66.93fpe
3. 898.7 = 61.88fpe
4. 882.3 = 59.64fpe
5. 866.5 = 57.53fpe
6. 857.1 = 56.29fpe
7. 851.8 = 55.59fpe
8. 841.2 = 54.22fpe
9. 812.0 = 50.52fpe
10. 808.8 = 50.12fpe
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Wayne, are all your changes made to only the regulator setting or have you adjusted the hammer strike at all by turning the cover on the hammer spring?
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Just my 2 cents, I have both o-ring kits from Harbor Freight and neither had an o-ring that really fit and held air in my DAR177. I found them either too thick to where they would not properly seat into the groove, or too thin to where they fit but weren’t thick enough to provide a good seal. I also have one of the kits from Amazon and there wasn’t really a perfect fit in that kit either, I was able to stretch a smaller diameter o-ring that was the proper thickness and get it seated into the grooves. So far it’s holding air just fine, but because it is stretched to fit, I’m not sure how long it will last. But fior now it’s working so I’m not going to mess with them till they start leaking.
I aired it up to 3000 psi Sunday afternoon after I finished some testing and I’m traveling this week, so it’s getting an endurance test while I’m away! If anyone (Wayne) does figure out the correct size o-ring for these air rifles, please post the size here. I’ll definately be getting some spares to have on hand.
Just a note on the H/F o rings. When looking at both the assortments (sae/met) the metric o rings don't appear to actually be truly metric size spec. What it looks like is they are the same sae's o rings and the metric assortment box gives the metric dimension of the sae orings. I only use them in a pinch, and sometimes for sizing. The best o rings are U.S. made mil spec. and tolerate co2 very well.
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Mike, I agree. So far I feel like it's money well spent. The trigger needs some work, and my mag needs some TLC. Other than that I am a happy camper so far. Interested what Wane comes up with on the .25, might be one of those in my future too. Ha.
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Tom I had turned the regulator up too far thinking it had changed with the loose jamb nut when I took it apart, now I've got it set too low, I decided to bag it for today and continue later on. Since I turned the reg down it's too low now, it's about 660fps but the way it is now I could get a ton of shots but I was happy with 50fpe to begin with, I'll fool with it some more tomorrow probably.
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Kaliforniaistan is now on the playing field with it's first DAR .25,
The package arrived, opened box, cleaned barrel, pumped it up, set up the chrony, and ran JSB 25.39,
Here's what it did straight out of the box.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/12345678909876543211234567890987654321_zps2d6sj4av.jpg)
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Wow that's a nice string you got there, it's amazing you didn't have any hitch's like many of us have. The darned o rings I got from ebay were wrong and I ain't gonna mess with mine anymore until I get the right ones (shipped today) from the o ring store. I sure used up my air from my 88cf tank fast working with mine trying to get it sealed right. Today(actually yesterday) I brought both my tanks with me and got them filled on my way back from the state land (Terry lives right on the main drag out to the state land).
Here's Terry's compressor, I also showed him my cast pellets and slugs too.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/42068967235_422e86f3eb_c.jpg)
I haven't checked my email but I did make an offer on one of the Chinese compressor's on the bay.
If I do get it I'll probably only use it to fill my guns direct.
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Hey All,
I received the remainder of my refund from Sportman's Guide today. I did get all my money back.
I'm glad to hear that the .25's are making good power.
Thanks,
Taso
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Kaliforniaistan is now on the playing field with it's first DAR .25,
The package arrived, opened box, cleaned barrel, pumped it up, set up the chrony, and ran JSB 25.39,
Here's what it did straight out of the box.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/12345678909876543211234567890987654321_zps2d6sj4av.jpg)
Nice string on day 1 right out da box.
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My buddy just texted me saying it held air all night just fine.
I will see him on Saturday and get to try the gun for myself.
Heck, with a factory string like this, I may have a hard time justifying a full teardown inspection.
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My buddy just texted me saying it held air all night just fine.
I will see him on Saturday and get to try the gun for myself.
Heck, with a factory string like this, I may have a hard time justifying a full teardown inspection.
So it wasn't falling apart out of the box, holds air and has a nice flat shot string.
Next you'll be telling us it has a beautiful select walnut stock. ;D
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Glad to hear some others are having good success with their DAR s. Mine is still holding air (since Monday), no problems. Hope to get some shooting-chroney work in Sunday, if not next week.
One thing that surprised me was how quiet the DAR .22 is. Noise wise it is comparable to my .22 Outlaw. It is not Marauder quiet, but pretty darn quiet for just a hollow shroud imo. How loud is the DAR .25?
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Glad to hear some others are having good success with their DAR s. Mine is still holding air (since Monday), no problems. Hope to get some shooting-chroney work in Sunday, if not next week.
One thing that surprised me was how quiet the DAR .22 is. Noise wise it is comparable to my .22 Outlaw. It is not Marauder quiet, but pretty darn quiet for just a hollow shroud imo. How loud is the DAR .25?
They are quiet, my .177 is quieter than my .22 Marauder!
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Just met Ryan at the Aim Sports Office in Ontario, CA, good guy. Invited him to shoot with us this Saturday, he thought he might be able to make it out for some trigger time. They are working on other distribution outlets for Calif. and will have their website devoted to the DAR line of airguns up soon so we can order o-rings, extra magazines, fill-probes and other accessories and parts for the guns.
I’m happy with the .25 DAR I got. Did a shot string that impressed me that Ron “Gertrude” posted above. My plan was to tear it down and get a good look at it. But since it is holding air just fine, for now, I think I’ll just shoot it on paper at various distances and figure out the best pellets for it in its current “factory” state. So far, it seems pretty accurate. ONE *(&^ OF A GUN FOR THE MONEY!!!
PS. If you want one, you better order it quick from Sportsman’s because Ryan said they will be sold out soon. I just talked myself into ordering another .25. Oh,well...
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Just met Ryan at the Aim Sports Office in Ontario, CA, good guy. Invited him to shoot with us this Saturday, he thought he might be able to make it out for some trigger time. They are working on other distribution outlets for Calif. and will have their website devoted to the DAR line of airguns up soon so we can order o-rings, extra magazines, fill-probes and other accessories and parts for the guns.
I’m happy with the .25 DAR I got. Did a shot string that impressed me that Ron “Gertrude” posted above. My plan was to tear it down and get a good look at it. But since it is holding air just fine, for now, I think I’ll just shoot it on paper at various distances and figure out the best pellets for it in its current “factory” state. So far, it seems pretty accurate. ONE *(&^ OF A GUN FOR THE MONEY!!!
PS. If you want one, you better order it quick from Sportsman’s because Ryan said they will be sold out soon.
Sportsman’s Guide has a $40 offcode for orders over $250 right now also, so that brings the price under $250! Y
ou need to ask Ryan if they have a parts breakdown he can share with us so we can order parts.
I also would like to know if the TP is adjustable like on the Marauder? I ask because there is a setbscrew located right in front of the trigger assembly and when I was reassembling mine after replacing the regulator o-Rings I wanted to ensure everything was good and tight, so I snugger everything down including that one. Well, once it was all back together and all aired up to 3000psi and I went to shoot, all I got was the click of the trigger and the slap of the hammer against the poppet valve. No air released! Baffled, I removed the stock, remembered that little set screw was not all the way tightened down, so I loosened it a few turns. I put it back to tether and all work fine. In fact better than fine, before all the work to replace the o-rings CPUM 10.5 Pellets were shooting at an average 735 fps, afterwards they were shooting at an average of 903 fps, which leads me to think that may be an adjustment for the TP and I turned it open a bit further than where it was set from the factory. But, I would like to confirm this theory.
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It would be nice if we could get an exploded view of this rifle in the near future.
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It would be nice if we could get an exploded view of this rifle in the near future.
That will be discussed this weekend, as well as a breakdown parts list with part numbers.
Have patience. They are less than a month old in bringing these to market, and it sounded to me like they are in it for the long haul.
🙌
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I also spoke with Ryan at Aim Sports this afternoon. Very nice and well informed gentleman.
I reiterated the invite that Craig has extended to him for this Saturday. He was very appreciative to us for reaching out to him and grateful for the invite. It sounded to me like he is honestly going to try to make it this weekend, but if not, he certainly wants to hook up with us soon and get some real time field testing in with some knowledgeable and experienced shooters. We can do that ! :D :D :D
Our conversation was quite enlightening, and I can say that there will be some interesting offerings from DAR in the near future. I look forward to meeting Ryan in person, sharing some trigger time, sharing some ideas and assisting him and the Dynamic line in any way that We can. I pretty excited about it !
This is looking like a pretty fun weekend is shaping up !
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Just met Ryan at the Aim Sports Office in Ontario, CA, good guy. Invited him to shoot with us this Saturday, he thought he might be able to make it out for some trigger time. They are working on other distribution outlets for Calif. and will have their website devoted to the DAR line of airguns up soon so we can order o-rings, extra magazines, fill-probes and other accessories and parts for the guns.
I’m happy with the .25 DAR I got. Did a shot string that impressed me that Ron “Gertrude” posted above. My plan was to tear it down and get a good look at it. But since it is holding air just fine, for now, I think I’ll just shoot it on paper at various distances and figure out the best pellets for it in its current “factory” state. So far, it seems pretty accurate. ONE *(&^ OF A GUN FOR THE MONEY!!!
PS. If you want one, you better order it quick from Sportsman’s because Ryan said they will be sold out soon.
Sportsman’s Guide has a $40 offcode for orders over $250 right now also, so that brings the price under $250! Y
ou need to ask Ryan if they have a parts breakdown he can share with us so we can order parts.
I also would like to know if the TP is adjustable like on the Marauder? I ask because there is a setbscrew located right in front of the trigger assembly and when I was reassembling mine after replacing the regulator o-Rings I wanted to ensure everything was good and tight, so I snugger everything down including that one. Well, once it was all back together and all aired up to 3000psi and I went to shoot, all I got was the click of the trigger and the slap of the hammer against the poppet valve. No air released! Baffled, I removed the stock, remembered that little set screw was not all the way tightened down, so I loosened it a few turns. I put it back to tether and all work fine. In fact better than fine, before all the work to replace the o-rings CPUM 10.5 Pellets were shooting at an average 735 fps, afterwards they were shooting at an average of 903 fps, which leads me to think that may be an adjustment for the TP and I turned it open a bit further than where it was set from the factory. But, I would like to confirm this theory.
Paul, that little set screw that u noticed if screwed in to far will block the hammer from hitting the valve stem.. not real sure of its actual purpose.
Just something i noticed last time i was tinkering.
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That's interesting. I guess that will give you yet another way to tune the gun for efficiency. You could adjust it to only open the valve so far. I wonder if it has been incorporated in any other gun.
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I got a chance to stretch my DAR177 out a bit more today.
Heres two 5 shot groups from 50 yds with the 2 best of my very limited .177 pellet selection.
This rifle definitely likes the heavier pellets.
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I got a chance to stretch my DAR177 out a bit more today.
Heres two 5 shot groups from 50 yds with the 2 best of my very limited .177 pellet selection.
This rifle definitely likes the heavier pellets.
I also shot out to 75 yds with the jsb monsters, but i could see thru the scope that they were spiraling at that distance and i had something like a 4 or 5" group ..
So hopefully i can find a pellet that performs well at distance and stays stable..
Im gonna order up some of the redesigned monsters and give them a shot.
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Just met Ryan at the Aim Sports Office in Ontario, CA, good guy. Invited him to shoot with us this Saturday, he thought he might be able to make it out for some trigger time. They are working on other distribution outlets for Calif. and will have their website devoted to the DAR line of airguns up soon so we can order o-rings, extra magazines, fill-probes and other accessories and parts for the guns.
I’m happy with the .25 DAR I got. Did a shot string that impressed me that Ron “Gertrude” posted above. My plan was to tear it down and get a good look at it. But since it is holding air just fine, for now, I think I’ll just shoot it on paper at various distances and figure out the best pellets for it in its current “factory” state. So far, it seems pretty accurate. ONE *(&^ OF A GUN FOR THE MONEY!!!
PS. If you want one, you better order it quick from Sportsman’s because Ryan said they will be sold out soon.
Sportsman’s Guide has a $40 offcode for orders over $250 right now also, so that brings the price under $250! Y
ou need to ask Ryan if they have a parts breakdown he can share with us so we can order parts.
I also would like to know if the TP is adjustable like on the Marauder? I ask because there is a setbscrew located right in front of the trigger assembly and when I was reassembling mine after replacing the regulator o-Rings I wanted to ensure everything was good and tight, so I snugger everything down including that one. Well, once it was all back together and all aired up to 3000psi and I went to shoot, all I got was the click of the trigger and the slap of the hammer against the poppet valve. No air released! Baffled, I removed the stock, remembered that little set screw was not all the way tightened down, so I loosened it a few turns. I put it back to tether and all work fine. In fact better than fine, before all the work to replace the o-rings CPUM 10.5 Pellets were shooting at an average 735 fps, afterwards they were shooting at an average of 903 fps, which leads me to think that may be an adjustment for the TP and I turned it open a bit further than where it was set from the factory. But, I would like to confirm this theory.
Paul, that little set screw that u noticed if screwed in to far will block the hammer from hitting the valve stem.. not real sure of its actual purpose.
Just something i noticed last time i was tinkering.
Rhett, thanks, good to know! I would have like it if it had been an air flow adjustment like on the Marauder. I guess I just blocked the hammer from hitting the poppet valve when I tightened it down. Oh well, at least we know what it is now. Thanks!
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These guns seem to have a decent valve in them too because the hammer spring is really short and it doesn't take much to get some remarkable power out of these guns. Another thing I like about the short spring is it's less wear and tear on the lever too, they really do cock pretty easy. With adjustable everything on them too is really nice, I haven't even bothered to measure the port on mine yet but just fooling around with this gun I've come near the 70fpe mark with it. My main goal is tuning it for a 60fpe 10 shot string which would really make this gun good for the medium small game at a decent distance.
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AS568-117 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring = perfect fit for the airtube o rings
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Thanks Wayne.
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They really sealed mine up great, I think I could probably let it set for a long time with no leakage now. The DAR air tube really is a good airtube because the only part of iit that could have a burr are the threads on either end and the vent hole. The vent hole on mine is smooth on the inside and orings slide right by it without a hitch.
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They really sealed mine up great, I think I could probably let it set for a long time with no leakage now. The DAR air tube really is a good airtube because the only part of iit that could have a burr are the threads on either end and the vent hole. The vent hole on mine is smooth on the inside and orings slide right by it without a hitch.
I noticed that also, and they are really light, like they are made of aluminum. I ordered some Buna N Dura 70 117 o-rings from Amazon last night, I'll replace the ones I stretched to fit with these when they arrive. So far, though, it's holding air just fine. Thanks for posting the correct size o-rings!
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No problem Missed-Em and Paul !!! I'm really surprised that nobody has posted them before me because there's a lot of people who got their guns way before I did ???
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Can someone take a minute to put a bare DAR on a scale?? I'm curious as to how much these actually weigh.
Thanks
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Shot groups and chronographed my DAR .22 yesterday. It was hot and humid so instead of setting up on my bench, found a shady spot, set up a folding table (rickety), my chronograph and set a target at a lazed 50 yards. Shot two 5 shot groups (1 mag) of crosman 14.3gr. groups. Started with 3000 psi. fill. Because of rickety table was having trouble holding on target. Groups ran 1.5"-1", but fps. was very consistent. 922, 918, 926, 923, 928, 930, 926, 925, 938. Finished at 170 bar.
Then I shot two 5 shot groups with JSB 18.13 gr. I got used to my rickety table and each group I shot was better than last. First group, I could cover with a quarter, second with a nickle. (See pics.) The more I shoot my -$300 DAR the more I am amazed. Trigger is heavy and creepy, and needs work, and I have an inexpensive 3-9 scope on it now, but I think it deserves better optics. Edit: sorry picture is sized wrong.
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For those of you that want to change your regulator output I made a picture. I think the three different calibers might possible all have different hammer springs too but I could be wrong. I've never actually had the entire regulator apart but it's not something I really wanted to do just yet, it would be nice to know what all makes them tick.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/940/42838699724_cf2c1cb83e_b.jpg)
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Wayne, is there supposed to be a 3rd O-ring on it?
Thanks - Steve
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No that's it, just the 2 o rings. That unused groove has an orafice in it for the bleed hole on the airtube. That's the reason there's two o rings on the OD of the regulator. The last time I adjusted the regulator I turned the thumbscrew down about 3/4 turn and I'm calling that good after the last string that I did with it. The thing about these guns is you don't want to shoot the air completely out of them, what I do is shoot it down to about 800psi then unscrew the gauge. I unscrewed the gauge once when it was at 2K and it's just not that safe to do. Dry firing can damage these guns, I don't recommend it at all.
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I was having some serious air retention issues today. Woke up to an empty air tube in the DAR177. This really didn't surprise me since I have an undersized OD o-ring on it because I didn't have the right size of one that was close to the right thickness.
I tore it down and all the o-rings looked to be intact. Just in case, I replaced the 2 under sized o-rings with some that were supplied with the gun, but they didn't hold air at all. It just blew right out the tiny vent hole in the air tube.
So, I tore it down again and replaced those with 2 new undersized o-rings that work in the past. These held air, but then it was leaking from where the air tube attached to the block!
Tore it down again and replaced that o-ring with a new one. Then, as I was filling it, all seems good till I hit about 2500 psi and the burst disk blew on the compressor!
Fortunately, I had spares and after replacing the burst disk I was able to finish filling the DAR177 to 3000 psi. I'm now waiting to see if it's going to hold air. My order of 117 o-rings won't be here till tomorrow, so I'll be tearing it down again! Fortunately, this is one of the simplest air rifle I've ever had, and tearing it down doesn't take much time or effort!
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For those of you that want to change your regulator output I made a picture. I think the three different calibers might possible all have different hammer springs too but I could be wrong. I've never actually had the entire regulator apart but it's not something I really wanted to do just yet, it would be nice to know what all makes them tick.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/940/42838699724_cf2c1cb83e_b.jpg)
So Wayne, it appears you actually loosen that bolt to increase the output? How do you test it to see what the regulator is set at? Or, do you just shoot it till it appears to come off the regulator that then check the gauge? I'm thinking of playing with it a bit when I get the right size o-rings for it. Thanks...
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I just shoot til it comes off the regulator and take my best guess at what it is. I wouldn't go much more than 1/2 turns if I was you because I had opened mine too far the first time. I had mine out in the woods today and shot a chipmunk with it off hand but Chippers is about all I seen today. I did some test shooting with the cast diablos that I had with me today, they were pretty accurate out to 50 yards but further than 50 the accuracy started dropping off. I'm going to take it out tomorrow too and I've got about 50 of the JSB King Heavy MKII's I'm going to try in it. I know them pellets are great for long distant shooting. When it comes right down to it I rarely shoot much more than 35-40 yards in the woods anyway but I'm just wanting to know what the DAR is capable of with good pellets. For as rainy and drizzly as it was today I still had fun testing it out, these guns are decent shooters for sure. Once the barrel has about a thousand rounds through it that'll probably improve too. 8)
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This has probably been covered, but does the barrel shroud have any baffles & how effective are they? Is the muzzle blast directed backward toward the breech like a P-rod or just "dead space"? Can an after market moderator be easily installed if the end cap is unscrewed? Threaded barrel, or just shroud? Thanks.
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Yes one guy took his apart and said there are aluminum baffles in it, he had to drill his out because the pellets were clipping them I guess, I don't seem to have that problem myself. I loosened all the screws on mine but at the time it still didn't want to come apart, eventually I'll fool with it again, for now I'm just wanting to shoot it myself ;D
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I totally understand. Thanks for all the information that you have already provided Wayne. Just enjoy it for a while, it sounds like a lot of fun.
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Mike, here's a picture of the baffles. There are 5 of them, they are held in place with the small threaded spanner plug then the end cap. They are flat on the ends, not cone shaped like the Marauder baffles. They are effective, but probably could be improved upon. I'm wondering if cone shaped baffles that seat into one another like the Marauder baffles and the Gauntlet baffles Haji makes would be quieter, especially if the spanner plug was replaced with a spring that would allow the baffles to separate a bit when the rifle was fired. I have tried both the Marauder and Gauntlet baffles and both have a larger OD than these do. There are no vent holes in the shroud either, none that are visible from outside the shroud anyway. I have not completely removed the shroud, so it's hard to say how it's configured where it attaches to the breech.
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Guys
Thanks for the good info provided,
A question for you all that use this brand of AR.
In the 17 and 22 calibers,
what would the Longest overall pellet than can be used in these mags?
Has anyone done any measurements, for total inside mag operating depth?
I know in the Mrod mags, 22 cal, QB 79,
the longest pellets that will work reliably,
is the Ultra Shock Heavy Diabolo, @ 25.39 gr weights, with a .330" length.
Tia,
Don
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The longest pellet I have tried are the .177 Sniper Magnums, which are .3215” in length. It appears the space between the insider of the cover and the inside of the bottom of the magazine is .3830” long, so a pellet that’s ⅜" long should fit.
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Thanks Paul
Did you mean to say a length of 3/8" = .375", instead of 3/4" = .750". ;)
I am thinking real hard on a 17 cal. ;D
Tia,
Don
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Thanks Paul
Did you mean to say a length of 3/8" = .375", instead of 3/4" = .750". ;)
I am thinking real hard on a 17 cal. ;D
Tia,
Don
YES! There I go showing my math skills again! ::) Fixed it! Thanks...
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FYI: when you take the stock off and look at the bottom of the monoblock trigger group, you will find a 2mm ( it's the only 2mm head) Allen set screw. It's the one closest to the front of the tube,. It's a bleed screw. Just loosen it a bit and the air will bleed out. It's a lot simpler than cracking the gauge, or shooting the gun down.
The other allen screw is there to lock the hammer, during shipping/assembly. You can remove it, or lock-tite it halfway out so it doesn't interfere with the hammer.
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I got to spend some time with the .25 this weekend.
So far I am pretty impressed with the overall performance. I will be making a post of my results soon.
I want to do some work on the trigger.
Does anyone have some pics they can post up here showing the internals of the trigger group ?
Thanks
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I got to spend some time with the .25 this weekend.
So far I am pretty impressed with the overall performance. I will be making a post of my results soon.
I want to do some work on the trigger.
Does anyone have some pics they can post up here showing the internals of the trigger group ?
Thanks
LOL! It's not your typical trigger group, i.e. a side cover you can remove and peer inside. There are 2 hex head screws that you remove, but that just allows you to remove the trigger guard. From what I can tell, everything is held in place with pins, and they will fall out if you aren't careful (it's already happened once). The only thing holding the pins in is the stock! Assembling this thing looks akin to building a ship in a bottle, everything gets loaded from the bottom!
Needless to say, I'm not brave enough to venture in there and put electrical tape on both sides of the trigger assemble to prevent the pins from falling out when I remove the stock.
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FYI: when you take the stock off and look at the bottom of the monoblock trigger group, you will find a 2mm ( it's the only 2mm head) Allen set screw. It's the one closest to the front of the tube,. It's a bleed screw. Just loosen it a bit and the air will bleed out. It's a lot simpler than cracking the gauge, or shooting the gun down.
The other allen screw is there to lock the hammer, during shipping/assembly. You can remove it, or lock-tite it halfway out so it doesn't interfere with the hammer.
Mike, excellent information! I used that method this afternoon after seeing your post, loosening that 2mm set screw worked perfectly!
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I got to spend some time with the .25 this weekend.
So far I am pretty impressed with the overall performance. I will be making a post of my results soon.
I want to do some work on the trigger.
Does anyone have some pics they can post up here showing the internals of the trigger group ?
Thanks
LOL! It's not your typical trigger group, i.e. a side cover you can remove and peer inside. There are 2 hex head screws that you remove, but that just allows you to remove the trigger guard. From what I can tell, everything is held in place with pins, and they will fall out if you aren't careful (it's already happened once). The only thing holding the pins in is the stock! Assembling this thing looks akin to building a ship in a bottle, everything gets loaded from the bottom!
Yes I see what you mean by no cover plate. Strange.
The "mono block" includes the Breech, Hammer housing, and trigger assembly Side Plates. All one piece.
Yes it will be a bit difficult to see what we can do to lighten the trigger pull. It is pretty stiff, and could certainly stand to be much lighter.
I too am a bit reluctant to start pulling pins out of the trigger group without some sort of diagram first.
This morning, I sent Ryan an email and a voicemail ask I g for any/all available exploded view diagrams for the entire rifle, and especially for the trigger group.
I was hoping to go into the trigger group today to see what is causing the heavy pull as well as the slight "gritty" feel of the trigger. I imagine that there are some parts in contact that would benefit from a polish and light lube job. I'm pretty confident that would get rid of the gritty feel, and then maybe replace a tension spring with a lighter rated spring ? Maybe ?
I will let you all know when I hear back from Ryan at Aim Sports. Hopefully he will be able to provide us with some assembly views or exploded views.
This rifle has a lot of potential once we figure out how to take it apart and put it back together. I'm looking forward to the challenge.
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Can someone take a minute to put a bare DAR on a scale?? I'm curious as to how much these actually weigh.
Thanks
Guy's..Does anyone that owns one of these rifles also own a scale, and has the time to weigh it.
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Can someone take a minute to put a bare DAR on a scale?? I'm curious as to how much these actually weigh.
Thanks
Guy's..Does anyone that owns one of these rifles also own a scale, and has the time to weigh it.
Not sure how accurate this is, I weighed myself without the gun then weighed myself while holding the gun. The difference was 6.5 lbs. This was without a scope or magazine, but it was filled with air!
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When I took the trigger mechanism (basically almost everything on the gun) I ended up having a mystery part which I finally figured out, they can be a real pain to work on but doable, I needed to use a dull pick and pair of small hemostats to get mine back together. Taking pictures really would have been hard while I was reassembling it though and that was the last thought in my mind at the time. I will take it back apart eventually but I'm having too much fun shooting it now. Right now I have mine adjusted about 3/4's turns out from where it disengages the seer. It's actually not bad right there especially after I got everything cleaned up from the salt residue inside. I used only Hoppes #9 main to stop corrosion but polishing stuff would have helped a lot.
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Can someone take a minute to put a bare DAR on a scale?? I'm curious as to how much these actually weigh.
Thanks
Guy's..Does anyone that owns one of these rifles also own a scale, and has the time to weigh it.
Not sure how accurate this is, I weighed myself without the gun then weighed myself while holding the gun. The difference was 6.5 lbs. This was without a scope or magazine, but it was filled with air!
Paul when I was carrying mine in the woods today it felt like the same weight as my SPA M16
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So, this was the very 1st ever batch of them rifles right ?
Betcha they will get better and better as they get feedback,...looking pretty darn good as a starter.
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FYI......my DAR22 with no scope, 3000 psi fill, empty mag. and 2 sling swivel studs added weighs 6lb. 14.2ozs. Weighed it on my Postal scales which are accurate to .1 oz.
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So, this was the very 1st ever batch of them rifles right ?
Betcha they will get better and better as they get feedback,...looking pretty darn good as a starter.
As far as I know it's the first run, I didn't order mine til about a week after this thread started and mine is number 74, one member has number 2.
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I had a chance to shoot mine a bit tonight after work, seems to like the JSB 18.13's and the H&N sniper magnum 18's the best so far. I had a tin of JSB Beasts that were a couple thousands to long for the magazine. I tried single loading a few but my power level isn't set high enough to shoot them well at this point. I also fixed the magazine so it would feed properly by drilling a new hole in the magazine back plate offset from the original so it would add a bit more spring tension. Prior to drilling the hole for the spring, it would only feed the first five shots before it quit rotating. Before drilling the new hole I tried adding a full rotation to the spring, but I think it was putting to much pressure on the mag when feeding a pellet into the breach, and may have been distorting the skirts. Haven't had a chance to run any across the chrony yet, maybe Wed. Tried lightening the trigger pull weight with the adjustment screw turned in per the manual but didn't feel like it was making much of a change. I might remove the action from the stock and see if I can get some lube down in there on the moving parts to free it up some. More to follow as I dig deeper into this thing.
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with this thread already at 17 pages, I didn't want to derail it with a very longposting of this weekends shooting the DAR.25 cal.
Here is a link to that thread
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1486365#msg1486365 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1486365#msg1486365)
I will update as I gain more experience and trigger time with it.
BTW,
We had a few of the regulars shooting this weekend who were so impressed with it's current performance and price point, that we went ahead and ordered FOUR MORE :o ??? ::) ;D of the DAR .25 cal, LOL ! ! !
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So, this was the very 1st ever batch of them rifles right ?
Betcha they will get better and better as they get feedback,...looking pretty darn good as a starter.
I think you are right Manny.
When I spoke with Ryan at Aim Sports, He said that they are already working on a "Gen 1.5" to address the wobbly Cocking Lever issue, and He very much wants our Feedback if other issues or concerns arise.
I got the feeling while talking to him, that Aim Sports actually DOES CARE about customers input, and if justifiable issues with quality or performance are present, they (Aim Sports) will make necessary changes to future models in the interest of improving design and QC.
I hope to be able to work closely with them, in any developmental improvements to the design.
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Like others have stated. Have only two issues with my DAR. One, the mag is sticky. After 4-5 shots, shoot, cock, tap, shoot, cock, tap-tap. Second is the trigger pull, way... to hard. Gun is hard to shoot accurately because of horrendous trigger pull.
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O-RINGS!!! They definitely need to get some better quality o-rings! BTW, for any YH Compressor owners out there, a blown YH burst disk makes a perfect shim for fixing that wobbly cocking lever!
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Can someone take a minute to put a bare DAR on a scale?? I'm curious as to how much these actually weigh.
Thanks
Guy's..Does anyone that owns one of these rifles also own a scale, and has the time to weigh it.
Not sure how accurate this is, I weighed myself without the gun then weighed myself while holding the gun. The difference was 6.5 lbs. This was without a scope or magazine, but it was filled with air!
Thanks Paul
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I just went and did it, order another one in .177, I figured I needed a decent .177 pcp and SG had the $40 off for members so I joined as well, should have joined for the 25 cal, oh well I didn't know what I was getting into at the time but I do this time 8)
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Wayne,
Don't you have a SPA .177 pcp? The one that's equivalent to the Diana Stormrider? Or is that one I'm thinking of a .22?
You must like the new Dynamic more than that one?
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I just went and did it, order another one in .177, I figured I needed a decent .177 pcp and SG had the $40 off for members so I joined as well, should have joined for the 25 cal, oh well I didn't know what I was getting into at the time but I do this time 8)
After tweaking my DAR177 a bit today, she's shooting 15gr H&N Sniper Magnums at an average of 859.38 FPS and producing an average of 24.60 FPE! That's more energy than most of my .22's are producing!
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Wayne,
Don't you have a SPA .177 pcp? The one that's equivalent to the Diana Stormrider? Or is that one I'm thinking of a .22?
You must like the new Dynamic more than that one?
The only .177 that I own that's a rifle is a break barrel, the Nitrovenom Crosman. My Airmax Varmint (PR900W) is .22.
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I shot mine some more after work tonight, just can't get the groups to tighten up though. JSB 18.13, H&N Barracuda match 21.1 and H&N Sniper Magnum 18 are all shooting around an inch but are not clustering like they should, also looks like they may be spiraling a bit at 30 yards. I will run some strings over the chrony tomorrow and check the numbers, maybe they are running a little hot on FPS and the speed needs turned down a little. I just want to see at least 1/2" groups at 30 yards. I may try a tin of Crosman domes tomorrow as well as another member was having pretty good luck with them.
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If you don't have any luck getting your groups to tighten up, check for clipping on all 5 baffles and the end cap. The system they use works great to quiet things down, but the tolerances can be a bit off. I wound up having to drill all of the baffles and end cap out slightly, and put an O-ring under the baffle hold down ring before I tightened the ring down and reinstalled the end cap. Presto. Problem solved.
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If you don't have any luck getting your groups to tighten up, check for clipping on all 5 baffles and the end cap. The system they use works great to quiet things down, but the tolerances can be a bit off. I wound up having to drill all of the baffles and end cap out slightly, and put an O-ring under the baffle hold down ring before I tightened the ring down and reinstalled the end cap. Presto. Problem solved.
Try a grouping with all the baffles removed to see if that improves accuracy. If so, its the baffle system
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If you don't have any luck getting your groups to tighten up, check for clipping on all 5 baffles and the end cap. The system they use works great to quiet things down, but the tolerances can be a bit off. I wound up having to drill all of the baffles and end cap out slightly, and put an O-ring under the baffle hold down ring before I tightened the ring down and reinstalled the end cap. Presto. Problem solved.
So did yours actually clip the baffles and end cap ?
Did it damage the baffles or cap ?
Did you take any pics ?
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Dang it the -117's let loose throughout the night so this morning I ordered 10 in 90duro and one size up -118 in 70 & 90duro plus I got some 90 duro vitons coming as well, one of them should hold up good.
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Dang it the -117's let loose throughout the night so this morning I ordered 10 in 90duro and one size up -118 in 70 & 90duro plus I got some 90 duro vitons coming as well, one of them should hold up good.
The -116's I put in mine are still hanging in there. Have you taken it apart yet to see what happened?
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Yes I did and the o rings look fine, they just let the air go by it looks like, I even tried shimming them like the China factory did but they leaked right away then. I ain't going to mess with it anymore until I get the o rings and the same goes for the .177 that's coming tomorrow as well. Filling a 300cc tank from empty uses all my air up fast, I even got another one filled on my way back from the state land today. 13cubic inch's equates to less than 300cc's and I've pumped a 13 cubic in bottle before and it takes about 300 pumps to fill one with a hand pump.
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Don't really think you can shoot this without the baffles in place. They're a compression fit, and appear to be integral to barrel alignment in the shroud. Somebody posted pics of the baffle assemblies out, and the fixture that holds the barrel somewhat on center in the shroud. That fixture is a slip fit, and without the baffels in place, you'll probably wind up shooting the end cap off. That's why there is a threaded keeper under the end cap. It, for lack of a better word, squeezes everything in the correct position.
I don't take pictures because I'm pretty computer illiterate. I've read the tutorial, but still can't figure out how to post them. I really want to figure this out because this gun is infinitely adjustable in every way from the regulator to the poppet valve tention. The trigger is simplicity itself, with only two moving parts and two springs. I've modded my trigger to where it breaks at exactly the same point, at just over a pound. The trick is to reduce the contact area of the pin that comes out of the hammer that engages the sear. Very similar to the mod that folks do to the Varmint/Stormrider.
As to the O-ring, I'm using 2.5X20 75 Shore A Viton's from McMaster Carr. There a post early on in this thread with the part number.
I've been in and out of ever part of this rifle over a dozen times, tweaking this and that. The o-rings have never failed. I lightly lube them with pure silicone 30w shock oil. I intentionally pumped mine up to 3800psi, just to see what would give. It held that for 3 days before I shot it down. I do own a compressor. Generic no-name. Fills the gun from 0 to 3000psi in under a minute and a half. Best 197.00 I ever spent on eBay.
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Don't really think you can shoot this without the baffles in place. They're a compression fit. Somebody posted pics of the baffle assemblies out, and the fixture that holds the barrel somewhat on center in the shroud. That fixture is a slip fit, and without the baffels in place, you'll probably wind up shooting the end cap off.
Mike, that fixture holds the baffles in place, it screws into the inside of the shroud after you insert the baffles and before you screw on the end cap. To shoot it without the baffles, I would remove all 5 baffles, the retainers g plug (fixture) and end cap, then shoot it and see how it groups.
I have ont had he shroud completely off, but not for lack of trying. I removed the 3 set screws near the breech, but it just spins. I suspect it unscrews, but I wasn’t able to get t to budge.
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You are correct. It simply unscrews. I had to use channel locks padded with some thin leather to break it free, as it is lock-tite'd in. The barrel is a heavy, thick beast that weights more than the air tube.
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Although I don't think I'm getting pellet clipping on the baffles, when I get my leaky air problem resolved I will look further if the Crosman premier domes I've bought group poorly also. I don't see any indication or marks of any kind at the exit to the shroud, but testing without the baffles would certainly tell for sure. Would also be able to get a look at the barrel's crown while their out. Sorry to hear that some don't like the finish on their rifle stocks, it's the one thing I really won out on, my stock and grain is beautiful, even if it's not real select walnut. ::)
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Mike, when I tried the t I did t have the air tube for, so it was hard to get a good grip on it. I’m sure I will be replacing the o-Rings again before too long, so I’ll try it again.
Just curious, is there an air stripper at the end of the barrel or just a something that keeps going it centered? When I was cleaning the barrel I know you it was a pain because I kept missing the barrel! Is the piece on the end of the barrel metal or plastic? How is it attached? Does it just slip on? You have my curiosity peaked now! LOL!
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Tom, have you tried the H&N Sniper Pellets? My .177 really likes the Sniper mediums! So far they group the best. But, the Benjamin Hollow Points do well also. They actually group better than the Crosman Domed 10.5gr in the box!
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Old tip on passing a cleaning device past the LCD baffles is to insert a straw down the shroud to line it up with the barrel. ;)
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Old tip on passing a cleaning device past the LCD baffles is to insert a straw down the shroud to line it up with the barrel. ;)
Thanks James! I have used that technique in the past, not sure why I didn’t think of doing it on this one! Probably anther senior moment. LOL!
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Decided to jump in myself, I have the Dar .25 on it's way scheduled to be here tomorrow. Thanks to all the early bird buyers who jumped right in and began to give valuable feedback about their rifles. It played a big part in me getting off the fence and getting one. I was trying to decide whether to break it down immediately and change the 0 rings or just use it until there is a problem. Decided to just use the gun until when or if it develops a leak. We won't know if the quality control of the 0 rings has been addressed if we change them without trying it first. I am still concerned about the unavailability of magazines and parts. I know an Aim sports rep has said it's happening, but then again the cynic in me says "would he say anything else'?
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I spoke with Ryan today.
He is waiting on magazines to arrive from China which I understood are already in route.
I am quite confident he will let us know as soon as they are here.
He also told me the Dynamic website is almost ready to become available.
I think he is working very hard to satisfy everyone's requests.
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Yes, I have a tin of the Sniper Magnums I bought when I ordered the DAR 22, odd thing is sometimes they will cluster, other times they spread out to nearly an inch even when dead calm outside so it's not wind. The JSB 18.13 do the same thing, they'll cluster, then another mag will spread, still trying to sort this whole thing out. I may try cleaning the barrel again and see if it helps as they did better right after the seasoning shots when the barrel was first cleaned, but have gone downhill since then. Maybe there's more shipping crud in the barrel that needs cleaned out that was missed in the first cleaning. That's something I could do tonight while I wait on o-rings to come.
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Sorry for the late post, thought it went through before I left for dinner. I did clean the barrel again, wow the crud that came out, have always used WD-40 to clean my barrels but maybe I need to buy some Balistol or something stronger, I ran patches through last Thursday until they came out clean, was surprised at how much more filth came out. Hadn't really run that many pellets through it to have so much crud in there. This may explain why some run JB bore paste through their barrels before shooting the first time. Will see if this tightens up the groups now, seldom see a barrel that doesn't like JSB 18.13's. Also anxious to see if it will like the cheap Crosman Premiers, picked up a tin at Tractor Supply last night for under $8 with tax.
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Mike, " The trigger is simplicity itself, with only two moving parts and two springs. I've modded my trigger to where it breaks at exactly the same point, at just over a pound. The trick is to reduce the contact area of the pin that comes out of the hammer that engages the sear. Very similar to the mod that folks do to the Varmint/Stormrider."
Question: When you say reduce the contact area of pin, exactly what do you mean, make it narrower, change the angle, round it? I have done a search, and came up zilch. More info would be greatly appreciated.
BTW. +1 on the compressor; sounds like the exact one I have.
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Well I wasn't as fortunate as some with my Dar.25. Out the box it didn't hold air. First it wouldn't seal and take any air, I cock it and it finally sealed and started filling. I was excited as I slowly filled to 200 bar. My excitement quickly turned to disappointment as soon as I bled the line and could hear air escaping. The air is coming right back out the fill probe hole. This to me seems like it would be more of the one way check valve in there not closing, or am I off here, and we have an O ring in there that could cause this? Still even though I am disappointed and hope this company does better with this gun in the future, I am thrilled with the looks and feel of this rifle at this price point, if the bugs get worked out I could see another of these in my future.
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AS568-117 B90 (NBR) Buna-N 90 Duro O-Ring is what I installed in mine today, they're hard enough to make the regulator fit in there the way it should.
I tried the 70Duro but they were too soft.
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AS568-117 B90 (NBR) Buna-N 90 Duro O-Ring is what I installed in mine today, they're hard enough to make the regulator fit in there the way it should.
I tried the 70Duro but they were too soft.
Thanks Wayne, read your previous post and have some of both those o rings on the way.
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AS568-117 B90 (NBR) Buna-N 90 Duro O-Ring is what I installed in mine today, they're hard enough to make the regulator fit in there the way it should.
I tried the 70Duro but they were too soft.
Thanks Wayne, read your previous post and have some of both those o rings on the way.
David I also blew out the breech o-ring a while back when I had the regulator turned up too high, I'll probably figure out which ones I need and get those in 75-80duro if they have them from the O-Ring Store. I admit that the shipping from there is on the high side but they have about any o ring you'd want.
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I just ordered a few of the -117 Dura 90's from the O-ring Store. The -116's I put on my regulator are still holing air, but they are from one of those Amazon variety kits and I have no idea of what the hardness is, but so far they are holding air. Hopefully, I'll have the 90's before they decide to give out.
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Them 90 duros will do the trick Paul, I put 60 shot through mine this morning with three refills without a problem, accurate too. I see my .177 is still full but I'll bet the o-rings in it give out before long. The really bad thing about these things dumping air is it takes so dog gone much to fill them to 3K with the 300cc tube like they have.
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Well my 116s o rings came yesterday, changed the regulator o rings and both of those on each end of the fill cylinder on my Dar.25,, figured would be enough to get me by until the right o rings get here in a few days. Was a chore but finally got it to take air, filled it up to 200 bar, bled system, pulled probe, this time no air coming out that I could hear, excitement. That is until I check the gauge on the rile several minutes later and could see the pressure was dropping. Well let's see how long it takes I tell myself, it slowly bleeds down to 100 bar at which point I hear a pop in the other room from the rifle proceeded by the dumping of the remaining air. Now what? This is getting old quick, might be time to box this puppy up send it back and try another one!!!
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Update: After muching swearing and promising to throw this rifle in the river, I settled down, went back and took it all apart slowly inspecting everything carefully. I some how got the airtube turned around and had the vent hole down stream DUH. Removed and replaced all o rings again, carefully cleaning before installing. Put it back together "RIGHT" this time, aired it up and it is holding air, fingers crossed that I don't have a leak.
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Why do we use standard size o-ring in a metric base airgun ???
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Why do we use standard size o-ring in a metric base airgun ???
If you know the correct sizes, then spit it out, if not you are just here to tell us how wrong we are, which is of no help to anyone.
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Update: After muching swearing and promising to throw this rifle in the river, I settled down, went back and took it all apart slowly inspecting everything carefully. I some how got the airtube turned around and had the vent hole down stream DUH. Removed and replaced all o rings again, carefully cleaning before installing. Put it back together "RIGHT" this time, aired it up and it is holding air, fingers crossed that I don't have a leak.
LOL! I did the same thing! That small little air vent hole is hard to see and it’s easy to put it together backwards. I was thinking about marking the breech end somehow so I didn’t do it again. Glad you got it figured out and hopefully it will hold air. Mine is still holding air with the 116 o-rings.
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Why do we use standard size o-ring in a metric base airgun ???
The grooves were machined too deep. Apparently the manufacturer knew there was a problem because some people found shim material under their O-rings. So if the original O-rings were a 2mm cross section (0.079"), trying the nearest -1xx size (0.103") makes perfect sense.
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Why do we use standard size o-ring in a metric base airgun ???
If you know the correct sizes, then spit it out, if not you are just here to tell us how wrong we are, which is of no help to anyone.
I just asked a question,.
If I owned one ,I would get my calipers out and measure the groove size and the air tube ID and buy o-rings to fit ;)
Success is its own reward. best of luck in your ventures
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Why do we use standard size o-ring in a metric base airgun ???
The grooves were machined too deep. Apparently the manufacturer knew there was a problem because some people found shim material under their O-rings. So if the original O-rings were a 2mm cross section (0.079"), trying the nearest -1xx size (0.103") makes perfect sense.
Ah, we have a quality control problem, I see now. Thank you :D
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Well I am still not there yet stopping the air leak on my Dar.25, slowed it considerably, leaked down to 100 bar overnight. Guess I will wait on my other one rings before trying again.
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David I had mine out this morning, put about 60 rounds through it, I need to buy me another tin of the JSB MKII's and do some shooting with them, just to see how accurate the DAR can be at a distance.
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After my last post here I decided to check the DAR17 since I filled it out of the box and chronied it then topped it off, it held the air for a couple days (I didn't check it yesterday though) so it's time to put O rings in it for sure, I didn't think it would last.
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Would cutting the oring groove wider allow you to use a larger cross section oring to compensate for the too deep groove cut? It sounds like there's not enough oring cross section to bridge the gap. The depth of the groove should be less than the width so that the oring is forced out against the cylinder.
The way I understand how orings are supposed to work is that they conform via pressure to and seal both surfaces. I have attached a picture of various examples.
I think example (b) is the correct way. A too soft oring will look like example (c) and (d). To hard an oring will not conform and leak. I have read that 70 duro is recommended for 3000 psi and 90 duro for 4500 psi.
I initially thought about some kind of backer to take up some of the loose inside diameter. Like a shallow piston ring. It may take up enough space to initiate the seal. I don't know if the seal will last as pressure drops.
There are members with more experience in this area than me but I had some ideas to share. :)
Thanks,
Taso
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I went to Nashville rubber and gasket after work today to buy new o-rings but they didn't have 90 duro so went back to the o-ring store online and purchased some buna-n 90 duro, some urethane 90 duro and some square 70 duro rings. I thought the square 70 duro rings may help since they have more surface area in contact with the air tube. Will try the buna 90's first as Wayne is using them now and they have been holding air ok. New rings should come usps Wednesday, just want to shoot the DAR again, chrony and check pellets. :-[
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I forgot to mention that the o rings that I got out of the 177 had lost their elasticity and were more like putty than good rubber. I'm thinking that possibly there were still oils in the gun that might have caused this that were originally used for machining and they were breaking down the o rings. I did clean out the airtube really good before reassembly. I'm pretty convinced that the 90 duro's will work out just fine. I also had to remove some of that shimming material on the o ring on the o ring on the probe assembly on the 177 too but that was the only one that they did like that on the 177, the 25 cal had them all shimmed like that.
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Can anyone tell me bow to remove.the pin between the bolt and hammer ?
Is it an Allen head ? Or a roll pin ?
Having some trouble getting the bolt and hammer removed from monoblock.
Any pics.would be great
Thanks
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Ron if you're talking about the pin for the sear catch, there's an allen bolt on the back of the hammer that holds it in there.
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Are you trying to remove the hammer? If so, it's an Allen head bolt in the middle of the rear of the hammer. You've got to remove the trigger assembly to get everything out. The hammer sits in a separate, slotted tube that you have to slide into the correct position to remove the sear catch pin.
My granddaughter is coming over this weekend to show me how to post pictures.
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Thanks for the replies.
I am not referring to the Sear Catch Pin. (Mine actually fell out without having to loosen the Allen screw in the rear of the hammer 😒).
The pin I am referring to attaches into the rear body section of the brass bolt itself.
There is a second hole through the hammer, (that is forward of the Sear Catch Pin hole).
When positioned properly, this pin that is in the brass bolt is visible.
It would appear to me that this might be a "Cocking Pin" (?), that engages the hammer, when the bolt cycles back upon cocking... Thus allowing the Sear Catch Pin to engage the Trigger Sear.
I can see this pin in the brass Bolt. The forward "shoulder" of the hammer will not pass by the end/tip of this pin, thus preventing removal of the hammer from the mono block tube it slides in.
I am currently on my phone and can not attach a pic.
I will try to attach a pic when I get to my computer.
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Oops,
Nevermind, ... I just got it out.
It IS a threaded pin with an Allen head.
Thanks
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Ron I use an Optivisor that I have from the electronics business and I use it on airguns often, very nice magnification along with a flash light I can't do without it. It is really nice for my old vernier calipers too, I need to break down and buy another dial calipers, heck they're cheap at Harbor Freight now.
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Thought I'd give one more go at trying to make the regulator seal, took the o-ring out of the grove and then wrapped several winds of dental floss around one inside edge of the groove, then put a new o-ring in the groove so the edge facing the gage or end of barrel was pushed up by the floss. Seemed a little tighter when I pushed the regulator back into the tube but leaked air out the vent hole as soon as I tried charging it. Wanted to shoot it tomorrow on my day off but will have to wait till new seals come. :'(
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Ok, needing help here! Gt my DAR - 22 last evening and played w/ it today, got the barrel clean, scope mounted (that was a struggle) and went to load the magazine >:( >:( >:(.... Can someone explain in 6th grade English how to load this thing? Directions show a different style mag and I seem to have a mental block on accomplishing such simple task! All help welcome!
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Hi ! You have to rotate the cover and load the first pellet skirt first from the back side .. and then load the remainder from the front !
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Yes, with the clear cover facing you turn the cover counter clockwise till it stops, put the first pellet in from the back skirt first, rotate the cover one position clockwise and drop in pellets one at a time till full. If you have trouble with all of them feeding correctly you may have to do what I did and drill a new hole in the back with a pin drill for the spring, drilling it offset from the original hole so it adds some extra spring tension so pellets feed ok till empty. My mag would only feed about 5 of the ten before repositioning the spring.
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Had the same sticking issue with my mag, too. But I just loosened the Philips head screw a bit and that cured it.
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Ron I use an Optivisor that I have from the electronics business and I use it on airguns often, very nice magnification along with a flash light I can't do without it. It is really nice for my old vernier calipers too, I need to break down and buy another dial calipers, heck they're cheap at Harbor Freight now.
Haha, yep,
And wouldn't ya know it, I was just at HF today. I could have picked up one for myself
Here's the pin that I was talking about earlier.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/DAR%201_zpsxxxdwbhe.jpg)
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I have not yet removed the air tube from this rifle so this may be a dumb question,
So I have not yet laid hands and eyes on the regulator or valve,
But has anyone here tried adjusting the output pressure of the regulator ?
If so, can you share what and how it was accomplished ?
Also, any valve or TP work you may have done ?
I would like to see if I can get the .25 up to around 75-80 fpe, while still regged.
Yes I realize shot count will suffer,
I am hoping to see a decent ES for one full mag.
Do you think this is possible ?
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Yes, the last one I messed with was my 177, I turned it up a little, you need to unscrew the thumpscrew to turn it it up and turn it in for turning it down. I had my 25 cranked up too far at one time that created a downhill fps starting out a little over 70fpe, I think the 25's come set close to 150 bar (mine had 149 written with a sharpie on it but it's rubbed off long ago) and I think for the 177 it came set at about 100 bar (again sharpie written on the reg 102). I measured the port on my 177 which is .133 and I might bore it out eventually but the thing already is pretty powerful the way it is. I haven't experienced anything like valve lock fooling around with it either.
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If I recall I think my regulator had 137 written on it, but I didn't write it down on anything, not like I could test it in any way. I also found that the jam nut wasn't tight, secured it with a wrench so it wouldn't unwind itself. I think Wayne had mentioned that his wasn't tight when he first opened his too.
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Yep that was true on mine too Tom. I think I could get a 10 shot string with 60fpe, I never did measure the port on my 25 but on the 177, it looks like you can open up the port another .017 to make it to 85% of the bore. My 177 pellets will be here tomorrow, JSB Monsters, H&N Sniper Magnum and 2 tins of Eun Jins. I'll run all three over the chrony before I decide on which to use in it Friday morning in the woods.
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Well got the o rings today the AS568-116 B90 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 90 Duro O-Ring from the oring store. Tore the Dar.25 back down and replaced the regulator with the 90s and the ones at each end of the tube again with the 70s. As Wayne said the 90s fit inside the tube real good and snug, I am hopeful that these will do the trick. Put everything back together and aired it up, because if this doesn't stop the leaking it is headed to Aim Sports and they can either fix it or give me another one. Thanks Wayne for leading the charge on getting these rifles sealed up from leaking.
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David, was surprised you got the #116 o-rings, I think Wayne got #117's and that's what I ordered also. Be sure to let us know if yours sealed up ok and keeps holding air. I know Ryan at Aim wants to know, they are watching the forum threads to see what develops.
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In most cases, when dealing with O-rings this large (approx 1in OD in this case), the two adjacent sizes will work virtually identically. The smaller O-ring will elongate slightly more when it's stretched over the part but not enough to "stretch it thin". In other words, the amount by which its cross section shrinks is infinitesimal. Either O-ring fills the gap.
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Guys
The better half gave me the OK to get a new toy, ;D 8)
it's between the Gauntlet and DAR.
If you have both brand names and shoot them, which would be your choice,
1st =22 cal then 17 cal?
What is the bbl length for each caliber?
When I check the SG, they didn't have any 22 cal available,
will keep checking, until they show in stock.
Tia,
Don
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I just went and checked both the 177 and the 25, they're both right up to snuff as far as the pressure goes from the last time that I looked at them. I've had the 25 out for a good extensive test in the woods, while I was out there I did 2 refills (not really needing to do either one at the time) to put it through the paces for making sure it was going to hold air good. Just before I came home I once again topped it off to 3K and that's right where it's at now. I think that the 90duro's are going to do the trick, I'm sure that I could let them both sit for a month now and they'd both still have the same air in them that I left them with. I do have the -116 90duro's but they were just way too loose in the groove and in order to make them seal they'd have to be compressed quite a bit to seal in the groove, the 117's actually were a perfect fit as far as the ID and OD were concerned so that's what went in it, seemed like the best fit yet and I'm glad to say they're both still holding air.
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I might also add that the 25 is much louder than the 177, after I had done the last refill on it just before leaving the woods I had to get rid of the pellet in the chamber so I picked out a poison ivy leaf on the side of a pine tree about 25 yards away and nailed it. Scott and his dog(very cool Australian shepherd) were both watching when I did it, Scott commented on the loudness and I had to agree but it's still nowhere near as loud as my stock Disco is. The thing that cracked me up was his dog Rudy ran right over to check out the falling ivy leaf after I shot it. That dog would make a fabulous hunter, he's not the least bit gun shy at all and he reminds me of one of the best hunting dogs I've ever owned.
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David, was surprised you got the #116 o-rings, I think Wayne got #117's and that's what I ordered also. Be sure to let us know if yours sealed up ok and keeps holding air. I know Ryan at Aim wants to know, they are watching the forum threads to see what develops.
That was an error I did get the 117s.
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David I doubt you'll have a problem then cause when I seen that you said you installed the 116's I thought holy cow how the heck did he get them in there ???
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David I doubt you'll have a problem then cause when I seen that you said you installed the 116's I thought holy cow how the heck did he get them in there ???
Lol no Wayne I made an error it was the 117s I purchased and put in there. Unfortunately didn't completely seal it, still leaked down some overnight. Had one last thought this morning and that was to put the 117s/ 90's on each end of the tube too, so tore it down quickly this morning and did it. Aired it up and went to work, if it's leaked down some by the time I get home from work I am out of ideas anf it's time to contact Aim Sports to send this reject to them.
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Wayne, my DAR finally started leaking. Let me get this straight, you are using AS568-117 B90 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 90 Duro O-Rings for the regulator and 117 - 070s for each end of the tube?
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That's what I'm using Charles, I just got back from the state land with my DAR177, man is that potlicker accurate, I was really surprised, can't wait to get my other pellets tomorrow ;D
I use divers silicone grease on the o rings, I imagine silicone oil would work too.
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This is what I've always used for o rings
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/856/42002009950_67ccb007c9_b.jpg)
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Well, guys, I've hit a wall, got home from work today and found my package from the o-ring store, installed the regulator with two new buna-n 90 duro o-rings and I still have a leak at the vent hole in the air tube. I degassed the gun removed the regulator and inspected the o-rings for damage and couldn't see any but it would not hold air. Put two new 90 duro rings on the regulator and this time pushed the regulator in from the opposite end of the air tube, hiss again from the vent hole. Degassed the rifle again, this time tried two urethane duro 90 o-rings on the regulator, aired the rifle up and hiss again from the vent hole. Just contacted Ryan at Aim Sports to see if he has anything to add, but at this point my wife wants me to send it back for a refund and I'm inclined to agree with her. This rifle might be ok to revisit in the future when the bugs have been worked out, but for now, with this one, I think I'm done.
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Well, guys, I've hit a wall, got home from work today and found my package from the o-ring store, installed the regulator with two new buna-n 90 duro o-rings and I still have a leak at the vent hole in the air tube. I degassed the gun removed the regulator and inspected the o-rings for damage and couldn't see any but it would not hold air. Put two new 90 duro rings on the regulator and this time pushed the regulator in from the opposite end of the air tube, hiss again from the vent hole. Degassed the rifle again, this time tried two urethane duro 90 o-rings on the regulator, aired the rifle up and hiss again from the vent hole. Just contacted Ryan at Aim Sports to see if he has anything to add, but at this point my wife wants me to send it back for a refund and I'm inclined to agree with her. This rifle might be ok to revisit in the future when the bugs have been worked out, but for now, with this one, I think I'm done.
Tom,
It's possible the orings in the regulator may need to be replaced. If that is the case, even if you get new orings for the regulator, it won't be easy to get the regulator back to the original setpoint.
Taso
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I would bet that the reg comes apart from the bottom, and you can get to the o-ring without changing the adjustment screw ???
if that o-ring is bad it will leak out of the vent hole
just be careful with the bellevilles and not spill them every where without knowing their assembly order
or just send it back
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Wayne, I am going to order some o-rings from the o-ring store. Just wanted to know for sure what to order. I have been using silicone grease from NAPA on my Outlaw, so far so good. But found the Trident on Amazon, going to get some, knowing it is tried and true. Thanks again.
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What does the inside of the tube look like?
I just went through fixing leaks through the vent hole on two Air Arms rifles.
On both of them the tubes looked and felt fairly smooth inside. But, I couldn't get them to stop leaking until I really lapped the heck out of them with a cylinder hone. No more visible longitudinal marks left at all...
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Well, guys, I've hit a wall, got home from work today and found my package from the o-ring store, installed the regulator with two new buna-n 90 duro o-rings and I still have a leak at the vent hole in the air tube. I degassed the gun removed the regulator and inspected the o-rings for damage and couldn't see any but it would not hold air. Put two new 90 duro rings on the regulator and this time pushed the regulator in from the opposite end of the air tube, hiss again from the vent hole. Degassed the rifle again, this time tried two urethane duro 90 o-rings on the regulator, aired the rifle up and hiss again from the vent hole. Just contacted Ryan at Aim Sports to see if he has anything to add, but at this point my wife wants me to send it back for a refund and I'm inclined to agree with her. This rifle might be ok to revisit in the future when the bugs have been worked out, but for now, with this one, I think I'm done.
Tom I feel your pain. Did my last test run on mine today. Aired it up AGAIN this morning, after work when I got home, once again it had leaked down. I haven't even had a chance to shoot this gun, perturbed I said to myself I am going to get a chrony out this thing. So I aired it up and got to run a couple strings across the chrony before it just leaked down then dumped. Can't believe how well the thing was performing before leaking all the air out. It's unfortunate that a gun with so much potential is being held back by horrible workmanship and or quality control, here is what it did before dying and getting boxed up to ship out, guess I had screwed in the regulator some as it was loose when I took it apart, it was right where I was wanting to try it, around 40 ft. lbs., look at the first ten shots, I was impressed, but as I loaded another magazine that's when it gave way:
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That's disturbing that you guys are still having problems with your guns even after install the new 90duro o rings, I feel guilty that mine are still both holding air great. I better go check again just to make sure ??? Well after I wrote the previous I checked them both and they're both still right where I left them ??? The only thing I can think of would be the internals of the regulator itself and I haven't taken either of my regulators apart.
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I ran a brake hone threw my air tube where the regulator sits the second time mine let go. . I will say that the airtube was rough looking with a dental mirror and a good light in the reg area.. I used viton orings and have had 0 leaks . I guess a guy should really look at the regulator and the airtube for sharp edges and make sure the tape like stuff is all removed from the reg grooves
Mike
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Are these still available anywhere? Don't see them on Sportsman's Guide.
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Are these still available anywhere? Don't see them on Sportsman's Guide.
Nope, Aim Sports pulled them from SG and recalled all the current generation models that were in the field. They will have a 2nd generation coming out at some point, probably after the 1st off the year.
I got 2 when they were available and was able to get the parts I needed from Aim Sports to get them working perfectly. There were some initial QC issues with the 1st generation, but Aim Sports really stepped up to the plate and are doing everything in their power to make the needed changes so these will be awesome air guns. I have a 1st generation in .177 and .25 and will be getting a 2nd generation in .22 when they are released.
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Gen II could be a very, very good gun at a great price.
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I am more worried about the magazines myself, I already have all three calibers and love em, great guns IMO but like others have said they do need some tinkering.
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No kidding, if they get away from that junk style magazine it would be great.
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I don't want them to get too far away from the current magazine design just yet, not before they offer some for sale so I have a couple spares! It's bad enough the 1st Gen's are already orphans, I don't want to be stuck without some spare magazines!
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No kidding, if they get away from that junk style magazine it would be great.
The thing I especially don't like about them is you can't just take them out and fill them when you want. I've even gone as far as finding a twig to eject the pellets that are in it just to make a full mag.
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I received conformation AIM is sending me a new 22 DAR and shipped today Should be interesting!
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Big Mike 1
I'll be following along, 8)
Please report what you find with the new DAR,
Tia,
Don
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I really lucked out finally finding the safety that fell out of my DAR22 yesterday out in the woods, now I just need to figure out what I'm going to use to locate it(plunger/spring and set screw) to get it working good. After getting home yesterday I looked at the pics that I took and it was still in the gun where I took a pic of a squirrel I got so I knew that it had to be somewhere between there and where I discovered it was missing. I made three different eyeball scans for the total of about @hundred yard trips and it took a few slightly different routes to get there but where I finally found it was right by the log that I was sitting on when I discovered it was missing.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1913/44926983012_6ef16724c1_b.jpg)
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Wayne, good find. You are either lucky or you have a lot of patience and perseverance.
When I got my DAR 25 I checked all the hardware and found two stripped screws and ended using purple Loctite (low strength) on all of the screws.
Good luck in finding the rest of the missing hardware.
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Wayne, congrats on finding the safety for your DAR22! You must have really good eyesight to spot that tiny piece in the woods! As far as repairs go, at least you have two others to get specs for the missing parts if you can't find those!
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Wayne
You done good......... ;)
From you photo, it appears that that safety part is a slide left/right type?
Is there enough room in the OEM hole for a spring plunger to be inserted or screwed in,
that would provide the pressure to hold/work the safety etc.
Just a thought I had, while looking at the photo.
Tia,
Don
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Well regarding the slow leak through the vent hole, this evening I was delighted to find the needle hadn't budged in almost 48 hours.
I took it outside and set up the flashlight downrange to re-zero it at 43 yards, and it was the quickest and easiest zeroing session I can remember. 4 pellets.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6066)
I think we're ready :)
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Jason I just took my 25 apart to replace the internal o ring on the regulator and the old o ring was literally in terrible shape, looked like it had be in there rotting for ten years almost, just terrible I can't believe how low quality the orings are that they used on these guns, I'll put it back together and air it up, and there's no doubt in my mind it's going to cure the slow leak.
I also turned the regulator up another quarter turn, that should put it into the low 900's with the 26 grainers while it'll still sling the 34.5 grainers decent.
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Good to know it's the O-ring within the regulator having the problem, hope that fix things for all
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The leaking is very slow. Mine did not lose much air at all in the last 48 hours either, but last time I did not touch for two weeks all air are gone
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Greg if the o rings in my .177 & .22 are that nasty it's only a matter of time before they start leaking too. Now I need to do another Chrony test to see how the regulator is acting now, it's gotta be better and will probably help for the up and down swings of pellet velocity and will probably also preserve on the air as well.
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I should probably change all the o-rings, if that is all the problem then after fixing it we should have greater shooters
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Great both of my other DARS are still holding air just fine but it stiil tick's me off knowing they probably have the same sub standard o ring on the inside of the regulator. I kinda think that most of the slow leak problems are from this -12 o ring and I'm glad Jason discovered it, he's pretty good at things like this I think. After I took that other o ring out I could put it on my little finger and roll it and all kinds of minute pieces of rubber came off it, they're plain junk and why the Chinese didn't address a lot of things that are bad with these guns I'll never know, it must have been for the quick buck.
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I ordered some of those O-rings for the regulator since I’m sure mine will probably fail sooner than later. May as well be ready for the inevitable!
Another issue popped up on my DAR25. I was shooting it today, zeroing in a new scope I got for it and the cocking lever is blowing out at a 45 degree angle every time I take a shot. Any ideas on what could be causing this and how to fix it?
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My .22 does the same thing Paul and I noticed the magnet on it isn't aligned as good as my other two. It didn't do it at first but it's doing it occasionally now. I'm thinking that whoever it is that's getting going on the second generation of these guns (if in fact they actually do make them) they'd better be doing some extensive testing of the older models because they're going to find many things wrong with these guns that haven't been discovered yet. I sure do wish they'd hurry up with their magazines though cause I could sure use some.
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Mine just started doing it yesterday, I was wondering if maybe there is an o-ring inside the chamber area that might need to be replaced? These really are great little guns, it's too bad there are so many minor QC issues. Hopefully, the Gen 2 models will have addressed and fixed all these. A huge plus 1 on getting those magazines! I'd like to have at least 3 per rifle, even though at the current tune, I can only make it through 2 before having to refill with air!
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Paul did you replace the o ring inside of the regulator too, it's a -12 and Jason replaced his with a 90duro one, I did the same thing and my slow leak disappeared.
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Paul did you replace the o ring inside of the regulator too, it's a -12 and Jason replaced his with a 90duro one, I did the same thing and my slow leak disappeared.
Not yet, they are in the mail and should be here tomorrow. So far mine’s not leaking but I’m sure it will start if they are the cheap Chinese ones like yours and Jason’s.
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Hey guys, I got to thinking about the regulator construction and decided to diagram it out on a piece of paper, and I think there is another O-ring down in the slender portion of the regulator body. When you take out the knurled brass thumbscrew (the valve seat) and look up inside the regulator body, you'll see a brass ring that can be removed with a slotted screwdriver. I'm pretty sure it traps an O-ring that seals against the OD of the stem portion of the regulator spool. When I was working on mine, I was in a hurry to get finished up so I could put the little ones in the tub and I didn't bother to remove the brass ring to see what was behind it. Thankfully my leak was solved but I wanted to give you guys a heads up to look for it because you probably want to replace it given the track record of O-rings on this rifle.
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You are correct
There is a small Oring inside the regulator.
I have replaced it with a white Viton oring and will see how it holds sometime next week.
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Hi Ron, okay thanks for confirming the other O-ring. Did you happen to notice if the original had the flakes that Wayne and I found with the O-ring on top of the spool?
By the way, today the DAR laid down its best 5 shots at 43 yards...0.183in CTC, comes out to 0.41 MoA. The more I shoot it, the more I like it.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6069)
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Fantastic Jason!
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Jason, very nice, Great gun and shooting.
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Thats an amazing five shots you did with the DAR25 Jason !!! You'd really appreciate the other two calibers I'm sure, I have a photo still in my camera of a red squirrel I took out yesterday for yard guard using my DAR177 while I was casting pellets, I cast another few hundred very nice 23 grainers in .22, I'll be continuing to stock pile my cast pellets because my first attempt at casting yesterday it was just too darned cold out and the lead oxided really fast with cold hitting it, I had to wait until it got warmer and was successful then with some quality.
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Thanks Greg! Thanks Bob! I was chasing a wandering POI just prior to those shots...was trying different things with the barrel band and stock to see if I could remedy it. Still need to test some more, particularly after it has been stored overnight. That’s why I was procrastinating about taking it down to address the slow leak. The POI was stable but after reassembly, it wasn’t.
No doubt there’s a bit of luck involved because my setup wasn’t very stable. Forestock on a pillow and the buttstock shouldered so I was really focusing on my hold and timing my heartbeat. At the same time, I could probably set up the shooting bags and go through a whole tin of pellets without duplicating it.
Wayne, you do a great job on the castings. Very nice! Seems like you’ve recently gotten 2 or 3 different dies. So far what is your best combination? Pellet and rifle.
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POI wandering - I was having this issue a day ago when I was shooting my Stormrider .22. I got dramatic POI shift(jumps). I figured there may be a pellet clipping the muzzle suppressor issue based on the sound, so I looked throughthe barrel and and rotated it trying to center the suppressor. Afterward it became much better. But still there are shifts. I assume that was due to speed change as the rifle is not regulated, but still, it seems moved more than I expected.
I did add a second barrel band right behind the muzzle, not sure if that is the best position, or if that is the cause of the shift.
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Good point, one of the first things I did was remove the shroud to check the baffles. I found one barely perceptible marking on one. Rather than drill them out, I wrapped each one with a couple turns of tape until they were a slip fit to the shroud. But after reassembly, the wandering POI was still there.
I hope the barrel band fixes your Stormrider. My FD-PCP was behaving similarly and a 2nd band out near the end of the air tube totally transformed it. Won’t always be the case of course but it’s a good thing to try.
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I saw on a youtube video the extra barrel band was installed right at the front of the stock and the owner claim much improved accuracy (he has a drooping barrel issue). I installed at the end of the air tube. I will try a few different positions to test.
I wonder with unregulated air rifles, if the barrel harmonics changes with different air pressure. Regulated air rifles are more likely to have the same harmonics due to the same pressure driving the movements.
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Jason I think my favorite mold is probably the 217-24-RF mainly because most of my guns are .22, I also really like the .22 BBT's as well as the .25 Magnum hunters as well, those magnum hunters in .25 are really accurate at 40 yards from my DAR25. NOE makes some really quality molds for sure. Jason what type of material do you recommend for a probe o ring cause my SPAM16 needs another one already(the harbor freight ones don't last long at all), I'm sure the best would be something durable yet flexible. I also want to get a stronger hammer spring for it because the original got stressed and lost it's tensile strength, I need one that I'll have more adjustment with rather than cranking it all the way. That SPAM16 really shoots the .22 BBT 30 grainers very nice at 42fpe and very accurate too. The Prod actually likes them as well.
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Wayne, polyurethane is the best for bolt O-rings because of its tear- and abrasion-resistant properties. However EPDM and Buna-N are both good materials as well so I wouldn’t sweat it if polyurethane isn’t convenient to get. Just keep in mind a harder material doesn’t abrade as quickly so use 90 durometer when possible.
FWIW, usually if I encounter a bolt O-ring that doesn’t last long, it’s usually because the bolt and barrel are slightly misaligned. The DAR bolt, for example, allows a little lateral movement so it can find center and slip into the O-ring without undue abrasion. Some may interpret it as sloppy tolerances but in my opinion it’s a good design. Barrels often have a slightly off-center bore and sometimes the bolt itself is slightly off.
Regardless, an O-ring in the barrel that seals against the bolt (mag fed) has a harder life than one that’s on the bolt itself (single shot). Every time it’s cycled, the O-ring has to pass 3 bumps—the head, the skirt, and the bolt—so yeah it really pays to get it right.
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I was chasing a wandering POI...was trying different things with the barrel band and stock to see if I could remedy it. Still need to test some more, particularly after it has been stored overnight. That’s why I was procrastinating about taking it down to address the slow leak. The POI was stable but after reassembly, it wasn’t.
Okay guys, about this wandering POI after reassembly...
The issue stunk of vibration/harmonics or barrel movement so I tried a few different iterations of isolating/coupling the air tube to the stock, and playing with different fitments of the barrel band to the air tube and barrel. Unfortunately nothing seemed to hold POI for more than a few shots. Meanwhile I also noticed my first shot after being idle for a while was at a reduced velocity, indicating some prominent regulator creep.
So I decided to go back into the regulator to check things out. A couple of the things I wanted to look at were the condition of the valve seat surfaces and the O-ring that seals the shaft of the regulator spool. The valve seat looked fine under a loupe. To be clear, the seat is where the narrow end of the regulator spool meets the plastic piece embedded into the brass thumbscrew. Nevertheless, I went ahead and dressed them with 400->600->2000 grit against a glass plate while I was in there.
Then I removed the little brass ring and inspected the O-ring and it looked fine. Likewise I went ahead and replaced it anyway given the track record of the factory O-rings. That's when I noticed the spool was slightly scarred where it passes through the brass ring. Turns out they were mating with a slight interference fit so I wrapped a piece of 320 grit around a dowel and carefully relieved the opening until the parts moved with a slip fit. A slip fit because I don't want the spool to have any lateral play, I want it to be guided to the same spot on the plastic seat so it cycles with as stable a setpoint as possible.
I think that fixed it up. I shot it a good bit this evening. The POI has remained stable, and the first shot of the day (after ~20 hours idle) was dead on. So was another first shot after 3 hours.
Let's just say I have my fingers crossed.
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Again Jason, fantastic job . Hope the fix sticks.
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Thanks again for some very good info there Jason. I think it's time I put the -12 o ring in my .177 because it's definitely got a very slow leak and I'd be willing to be it's more than likely the internal reg o ring. I'm tempted to do it right now but for today I'm going to be using the DAR25 if I manage to get out and that all depends on the rain situation, I'll be keeping a lookout on the radar before I leave though. Later today I'll be doing some tinkering with my DAR22 because the parts I ordered for possibly fixing the safety should be in the mail today.
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Good point, one of the first things I did was remove the shroud to check the baffles. I found one barely perceptible marking on one. Rather than drill them out, I wrapped each one with a couple turns of tape until they were a slip fit to the shroud. But after reassembly, the wandering POI was still there.
I hope the barrel band fixes your Stormrider. My FD-PCP was behaving similarly and a 2nd band out near the end of the air tube totally transformed it. Won’t always be the case of course but it’s a good thing to try.
The aluminum baffles in the shrouds of all three of my DAR's seem to be one thing they got right with these guns because I haven't had any clipping from any of them.
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Thanks again for some very good info there Jason. I think it's time I put the -12 o ring in my .177 because it's definitely got a very slow leak and I'd be willing to be it's more than likely the internal reg o ring. I'm tempted to do it right now but for today I'm going to be using the DAR25 if I manage to get out and that all depends on the rain situation, I'll be keeping a lookout on the radar before I leave though. Later today I'll be doing some tinkering with my DAR22 because the parts I ordered for possibly fixing the safety should be in the mail today.
I'm curious to see now the 1911 detent fits your DAR safety. Good thinking.
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Got a replacement 25 the other day. Like a kid on Christmas. So glad to have one back. Of course o-rings failed after a couple of days shooting. Looking on different thread for the o- ring list and now getting eye strain for scrolling. Still have not found it. Anybody know where it is?
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James, the o-rings for the regulator and both ends of the air tube are -117 duro90.
My .25 let go yesterday, all the air went right out the barrel. I tore it down and all the o-rings looked good, so I suspect it was the valve poppet. I swapped the cone shaped spring to the valve I previously removed from it, put it back together and all is good!
As for the baffles, I'd still like to try some of Rocker1's baffles in it to see if that will quiet it down any. I did receive an adapter and put a Rocker1 LDC on it and that made a significant difference! I'd still like it quieter though...
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James, I put up a miniature O-ring manifesto here https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1521409#msg1521409)
Also, Ron (Gertrude) had posted a photo of a packing list with O-ring sizes...you could probably find it fairly quickly with the forum search. Put him as the author, ring as the search term, in the last 0-60 days.
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I use -117 70duro on both ends of the airtube, -117 90duro on the outside of the regulator and -012 90duro on the inside of the reg. Jason also replaced another internal o ring as well on the regulator which I haven't replaced on any of mine.
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I received my new DAR today.. It had around 1800psi in it so I Scoped it up and cut one off at the bullet trap. Immediately started leaking from bleed hole Arr reg orings.. Ohwell put the good ones in and move on.
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Mike, just a thought reading that description. Firing would not expose the O-rings on the reg body to any stress, but it does to the reg’s internal O-rings, particularly the -012 size on the top of the brass spool. Just saying I would not chance only replacing the -117 O-rings on the body.
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Agreed ! I am going to replace all of them..
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Thanks guys, had the 117-90s from before. Thought I would get an order together and do them all cause I know the others will be failing soon.
Thanks Jason your list shows what I will was looking for.
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Thanks again for some very good info there Jason. I think it's time I put the -12 o ring in my .177 because it's definitely got a very slow leak and I'd be willing to be it's more than likely the internal reg o ring. I'm tempted to do it right now but for today I'm going to be using the DAR25 if I manage to get out and that all depends on the rain situation, I'll be keeping a lookout on the radar before I leave though. Later today I'll be doing some tinkering with my DAR22 because the parts I ordered for possibly fixing the safety should be in the mail today.
I'm curious to see now the 1911 detent fits your DAR safety. Good thinking.
Here's that detent/spring assembly that I got in the mail today, I'm thinking I can get something to work here ;D
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1911/44397225244_c7a4b3afea_b.jpg)
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New dar problem for me?
Put the 177-90 Duros I had laying around on the reg and both ends of air tube. Adjusted the regulator some. Loaded up a mag and shoot ten 50 fpe shoots and had a big smile on my face. I was happy to have a dar 25 back in my possession. Put a scope on made a target and tried to zero it in.
Smile faded. Shooting very low and no matter how much I turned the elevation knob could not get it zeroed . Maxxed out the knob. Maybe the scope? Tried two others off other guns and same thing. I’m stumped.
So went in side to the ac and now thinking about. I did have to shim the rings but I did that last time and no problems. Same scope and rings as I had on the one I sent back and worked great.
Even though I could not get the scopes dialed in the gun was shooting great groups,just to low and a little bit left. Never had this problem on any gun before. Any ideas from you guy will be appreciated.
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The barrel band takes the barrel anywhere the air tube goes so check to see if the air tube pulls down when you install the stock screw.
The other starting question would be, does it group? It’s low but do 5 pellets land close to each other if you keep a single point of aim?
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Yes Jason it groups very well but even maxing the scope can only get the group about 6 inches away from bulls eye.
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Okay good, it’s not a bad barrel or clipping or something like that.
What about the air tube pulling the muzzle down via the barrel band when you put it in the stock? If you can’t see something obvious, set up with some bags so you can shoot a group without the stock attached and see if that brings the POI up.
Another possibility is a bent barrel. One that you can’t get on paper at a modest distance (under 50 yds) will be pretty obvious to the naked eye. Unthread the shroud and sight down the outside of the barrel relative to the receiver. It the barrel is banana-shaped or if it sags relative to the receiver, there’s the culprit.
Come to think of it, make sure first that the two grub screws securing the barrel into the receiver are good and snug. If not, the barrel may be drooping.
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Sounds like that’s what I’m going to do tomorrow. Thanks
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These guns do have some very thick barrels on them too. I'll be putting my DAR22 back together later today when the loctite on the trigger cures. I'll also be replacing the internal -012 o ring in the reg with a 90duro. I'll be leaving the regulator where it's at for now because it's got plenty of power the way it is. I still need to get over to Menard's to find more appropriate hammer springs for these guns, I'm thinking I'll be able to find one size that will work for all of them because of such a short throw these guns have. I also think that leaving the regulator on this gun where it's at will be good for the next mold that I'll be buying from NOE. I'm sure that it'll be slinging the JSB18.13's into the 900fps category but I'm not going to use them on a chrony string because I don't have many left.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1857/44752902501_b768287b17_b.jpg)
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Wayne, if you do find a better hammer spring could you please post the information so I can get a couple. Would also be interested in a cone shaped valve spring. Thought I would build up a little back up parts bag for my dar 25. Sure would be nice to find some back up mags. I do have a 22 mag that I don’t need any more If someone needs it.
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The hammer spring on the .25 is way too strong, at least for any power level fitting of its small plenum and middling barrel length. To get reasonable efficiency in the 45-50fpe territory, I had to install one that was something like 0.4” shorter. I just lucked out and had one in my assortment but I was just going to start shortening the original if not.
If you can’t get the velocity to drop by backing off the preload to where the cap is flush to the back of the receiver, it’s time to start cutting coils.
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Jason I've never checked the wire diameter of any of the hammer springs in them but I'm willing to bet they're all the same. That .4" is probably about how much of the spring protrudes before putting in the end cap. I'm sure once I get a better spring in all of mine the efficiency will improve 100% after getting them all adjusted right. You can see what I mean by that last chrony string I posted, way too much variation but the darned guns do shoot really good but using too much air I think. I'm still getting 30 good shots the way it is and that could probably be 35 good shots with a well adjusted hammer spring.
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This my be common knowledge, but someone commented that they didn't like the fact that DAR mags could not be topped off. They can; the first pellet in is the first pellet out. To top off follow the same procedure that you use when the mag is empty. Spin the face plate to first slot insert first pellet skirt first from the front, then fill empty slots from the back. Easy-peasy.
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Charles the thing I like about the magazines on my SPAM16 is if I happen to have a pellet that's already chambered and ready to shoot I can insert the mag on an empty chamber. Evanix and others have the same type mag, it's the higher end SPAmags that are like that.
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Wayne, I hadn't thought of that, it is a good feature. I got two extra mags for my Outlaw from SPA, man their parts inexpensive. I hope they to continue to sell them to us directly.
I am loving my two DARs. I think I enjoy the tinkering part about as much as the shooting part. My 22 is a laser, and after smoothing and polishing the trigger is pretty darn good. My 25 isn't as accurate (yet) as the 22 but it's getting close. The trigger is not as light either, I suspect the hammer spring is heavier. When I get a chance I am going to exchange them to test that theory. I haven't had any leaks in about 2 weeks from either.
Also I would like thank all of you guys for your great post and pictures on these guns. Sure has made working on them a whole lot easier.
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Charles when I'm shooting the 26 grain pellets from my DAR25 at an average of 905fps the thing is extremely accurate, when I had it adjusted to shoot my 34.5 grain cast pellets for a 10 shot group it was very accurate as well, I think the length of the heavy cast pellets seem to be much more accurate in the 900's, I even noticed an improvement in accuracy going from the mid 800's up to 900fps with the long pellets. The same goes with the .22. If NOE doesn't get the 22 cal hunter mold soon I might just turn the regulator up on my .22 to get it shooting in the low 900's with the long 23 grainers as well, the way that it's adjusted right now it would probably shoot the 18.13 extremely well.
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Here's a little update,
I spoke with the DAR rep today and asked for a conformation , (on if in fact), extra magazines were coming.
He assured me that he HAD in fact ordered them, (quite some time back), and they were supposed to be here by now.
He was just as frustrated about it as anyone, and He clearly understands that several people want to buy extras when they do become available.
He will let me know as soon as they arrive, (He said we will be the first to know).
I will update you all when that happens.
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Thanks Ron
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Thanks Ron for the update. I thought they had forgotten about us DAR owners. I will be watching. Would love to get two more 25 mags. Did they say anything about any other parts for the DARs?
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Thanks for the update Ron, we are lucky to have you as a spokesman, you keep us on the leading edge!
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Yes Ron thanks a lot for the update !!!
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Well gentlemen, it looks like the DAR rifles have been an overall bust.
Aimsport has recalled all the unsold guns, as well as offering those who bought guns the option of keeping them or sending them back for a full refund.
Initially the guns were supposed to be recalled through Sportsman's Guide, but SG was pleading ignorant to that.
Aimsport had a talk with SG and worked out their issues and SG began taking back the guns.
They really don't have many recalls as only somewhere between 50 & 100 guns were sold.
I had 3 of them, in all calibers, with two not holding air right out of the box.
I decided that I didn't want the trouble that so many others were having, and opted to send mine back.
SG arranged for FEDEX to pick up my guns at my house, and I sent them back last week.
SG received them yesterday, and now I am waiting for a credit to show on my card, which will complete this deal that has been in progress since the first part of July.
It's a shame that the guns didn't hold up to expectations, as they seemed to be a great deal at the onslaught of sales.
It's just as well that I sent mine back, and I am very happy that Aimsport is a company that stood behind the sales.
I understand that the long awaited spare magazines that many owners wanted to buy will not be coming!
That's a real bummer, as what will you will do with your gun if your magazine should break, or you lose or misplace your mag? That will render your gun useless.
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I understand that the long awaited spare magazines that many owners wanted to buy will not be coming!
That's a real bummer, as what will you will do with your gun if your magazine should break, or you lose or misplace your mag? That will render your gun useless.
Bill, who told you there won't be any spare magazines available? It's my understanding they are completely redoing these rifles and Version 2 should be released early next year. Hopefully, they will use the same magazines and spares will eventually be available. I'm looking forward to the next generation and plan on picking up one in .22 to complete my set!
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Well I'm hanging onto mine. It does ragged holes at 43 yards with all 3 .25 cal pellets on the shelf, and thus far no critter inside of 60 yards has walked away.
So they will get mine back when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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LOL! I agree to a point, my biggest concern is lack of parts when something breaks. So far we have only had to worry about o-rings which are readily available. But what happens if, say your poppet fails? Is this a standard size that may be available for another air gun??? If so, please let me know because I have one that leaking!!!!
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If you have a drill press, you can make a replacement poppet. It's easier with a lathe but a drill press will do.
Regarding the magazine, yeah I wouldn't want to be without it but I single loaded quite a bit when testing early on and it wasn't that bad. If it came down to it, I would make a single shot tray for it. Seems likely spare magazines will be available at some point.
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Not sure I have the skills or th materials needed to pull that off! i was hoping maybe a Crosman poppet from something might be the same size! They look very similar...
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I'm still skeptical as to whether or not they actually will be getting any magazines myself, Ron was saying that Aim Sports is saying they WILL be getting them but they're way over due already. I'm wondering if indeed they even will have a second generation also.
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They do have a product with good potential so hopefully they will see the potential market. I would get a big bore if they go that way.
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They are definitely the easiest air guns I own to work on! Very simple, yet effective design. I sure hope they don't go away!
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Paul:
I was told directly by Aimsport that they would not be ordering spare parts, including magazines, for the few guns that were sold and not returned for refund. It is because the company would have to order a greater quantity than they would be able to sell. Also, the upgrade to the guns, including parts and magazines, that won't be available until the distant future, will most likely NOT be interchangeable with parts and magazines used in the first version.
What I got out of the conversation was that those who choose to keep their guns are on their own with very limited or no support. The company has offered a full refund for any buyers that choose to return their guns, and rather than to endure a future of unsupported problems, and only one magazine for each gun, that's exactly what I did! I think that Aimsport has done it's best, and I am satisfied with how they treated me.
Bill
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Glad I returned mine also when I did while Ryan was still there.
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Well, I will stick with mine for now. The magazine is a concern. Who is the actual manufacturer? Could it be SPA? The design of the magazines are very similar.
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I wonder if it is too late to return them to Aim Sports? If they are going to come out with a redesigned rifle with different magazines, I don’t need a refund and am willing to wait for the new one. I fear being stuck with something I can’t fix if they are going to use the same parts or interchangeable parts in the new design.
Bill, who did you speak with at Aim sports and do you have contact info you could PM me? Thanks.
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Paul:
Call Aimsports in California. Ask to speak to Ed in the DAR division if you must, but if you re read my last post, I have already answered your questions, and I'm not sure what you have to gain by calling Aimsports?
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Paul:
Call Aimsports in California. Ask to speak to Ed in the DAR division if you must, but if you re read my last post, I have already answered your questions, and I'm not sure what you have to gain by calling Aimsports?
Thanks Bill, I just got off the phone with Ed, he's going to look into the next generation and see if they are a total redesign or if they will use the same or interchangeable parts on the next generation. Best case, they will use the same magazine and other parts, worse case, I send my 2 back and wait on the next generation to be resealed!
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Then again those who keep them may have collectors items :)
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Hopefully someone will come up with a way to modify an existing magazine to fit the DAR's for us guys that decided to keep our functional DAR's.
I'm still pleased with my .25 and I don't see any problems in keeping it working.
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Hopefully someone will come up with a way to modify an existing magazine to fit the DAR's for us guys that decided to keep our functional DAR's.
I'm still pleased with my .25 and I don't see any problems in keeping it working.
Till your valve poppet fails and you can't find another that fits! O-rings are one thing, the other parts are a bit more challenging.
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Hopefully someone will come up with a way to modify an existing magazine to fit the DAR's for us guys that decided to keep our functional DAR's.
I'm still pleased with my .25 and I don't see any problems in keeping it working.
Till your valve poppet fails and you can't find another that fits! O-rings are one thing, the other parts are a bit more challenging.
I own two lathes and a mill so duplicating or fabricating AG parts is not a problem.
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Awesome! Can I put in an order for a couple replacement poppet valves???
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I have a lot of fun with all my DAR's, I think I've been shooting the .25 more than both the .177&.22 put together. These latest pellets I've been casting shoot really nice out of it.
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After my DAR177 failed, I contacted Aim Sports and decided to box up both the DAR177 and DAR25 and send them back. I want to get the Gen 2 models when they are released the 2nd quarter of 2019, but SG is only offering me a refund. I'm waiting to hear back from Aim on how to proceed. I used the SG CC to purchase both, and that card gets paid off at the end of each month, so it carries a zero balance. The last thing I want is a balance of over $400 just sitting on it.
Once I hear back from Aim, I'll call SG and see what's up. I really like these rifles, which is why I'd prefer to get replacements once the new models are released. I'd keep these because both are super powerful and extremely accurate, but the lack of parts and support have driven me to the decision to return them. I just hope I can get it worked out...
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Paul:
For the reasons you have stated, I made the same decision, to return mine for a refund. SG is thee only place that can make that happen - not Aimsports! Originally, I was told that SG would credit my credit card account after i return the guns to SG. They sent me a return authorization and paid for the Fedex pick up at my home. They got them last Thursday and I had not seen any credit to my card as of yesterday. I called SG to see what the problem might be. They told me that because my purchase was made on June 29th, it went back too far for them to issue credit to my card. Instead, they cut me a check for the entire amount and mailed it yesterday! I won't be getting credit to my card, but will be receiving a check in the mail! Maybe they will do that for you, too? Good luck! My suggestion to you is to take the refund any way you can get it!
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What about the option sending the rifles back and waiting to receive the replacement, without getting refund?
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That is an option, but why would anybody take it?
There is absolutely no way of knowing that the 2nd generation guns will ever make it to market, and if they do, when they might arrive? I think it is much simpler (and smarter) to take the generous offer of return, get your money back, and then, if the 2nd generation guns are ever sold, just buy them at that time!
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I hope if they could not deliver the 2nd generation then they should refund. Of course there is always the chance the company will belly up and we may end with a loss
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That is an option, but why would anybody take it?
There is absolutely no way of knowing that the 2nd generation guns will ever make it to market, and if they do, when they might arrive? I think it is much simpler (and smarter) to take the generous offer of return, get your money back, and then, if the 2nd generation guns are ever sold, just buy them at that time!
Well, apparently that is the only option as far as SG is concerned! I spoke with them and Aim Sports this morning. According to Aim, there was a letter that supposedly went out to all SG Customers who purchased the DAR air rifles that gave the option of being put on a reservation list for the 2nd generation DAR air rifles, or receive a refund. I never received this letter.
According to SG, the only option is a refund back to the payment source used to purchase the air rifles. In my case that's the SG Visa, which is paid off each month so I don't pay interest charges. I did speak to the folks at the SG Card Services and they assured me they can transfer the funds to my Checking Account once the funds are back on the card, so the money won't be held hostage to only be used for future purchases from SG! BTW, one was purchased on July 3rd, the other on Aug 22nd, so I guess I'll have to wait and see how they get processed.
Anyway, both DAR air rifles went back today and once they receive them, I should receive a refund. At this point, I'm not sure if I'll be purchasing the 2nd generation DAR even if it does materialize in the future. I preordered an Evanix Air Speed from JSAR and once the refund processes, those funds will be going toward that air rifle. Hopefully, I'll have better luck with it!
The last few air rifle purchases I have made lately have been real lemons! First the 2 DAR air rifles with all their issues and then the Hatsan BullBoss with all it's issues! It's boxed up also awaiting a response from HatsanUSA and hopefully a return label as well. I've requested a refund for it also and those funds will go toward the Air Speed as well. What an ordeal these last few air gun purchases have been. I'm certainly hopefully the Evanix will be a quality air rifle without any issues!
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If they will honor the original price on the 2nd gen, a refund is preferable for sure. I paid $200 and I have some concern the new model will be back up around the $300 price point. Even considering the amount of effort I have in mine, I feel like that was a steal. I suppose that's because I generally do a full takedown/deburr/polish on all my rifles so it's really no different in that respect.
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If they will honor the original price on the 2nd gen, a refund is preferable for sure. I paid $200 and I have some concern the new model will be back up around the $300 price point. Even considering the amount of effort I have in mine, I feel like that was a steal. I suppose that's because I generally do a full takedown/deburr/polish on all my rifles so it's really no different in that respect.
Jason, f I had the resources and skills, I probably would have kept these. I also got a good deal, especially on there DAR25 where it was on sale, and fear the 2nd generation will increase in price due to the additional effort needed to make them right. But, with my limited skills and resources, I'm afraid I'd end up with a couple broken, orphaned air rifles that I can't get parts or service for. At this point, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. It's a shame though, both were very powerful and accurate air guns! I guess I'll wait and see what the 2nd generation have to offer...
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I never received the letter either. Ed never mentioned that in his email to me.
I am probably less skilled than most of you here so I am still debating what to do. I guess by the next year we will have better and cheaper models, given the low price of the hand pumps (and electric pumps too). PCPs may go the way the break barrels went, with companies competing on lower prices
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I never received the letter either. Ed never mentioned that in his email to me.
I am probably less skilled than most of you here so I am still debating what to do. I guess by the next year we will have better and cheaper models, given the low price of the hand pumps (and electric pumps too). PCPs may go the way the break barrels went, with companies competing on lower prices
I wouldn't wait too long, I don't know exactly how long Aim and SG will be offering the refunds, but I was told it won't be for very much longer, which is what prompted me to send them back now... Aim is supposed to be sending me a copy of the letter, I'll let you know when I receive it.
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I've got all three and plan on keeping them all, I head shot a red squirrel with the .25 at about 35 yards in the head today with it, the darned things are accurate.
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My 177 still has a slow leak after replacing the tube and reg orings with 90 duro as suggested. I really like the rifle and hate to give up but I just don't have time for it right now while remodeling my son's first house.
I guess I'll get ahold of SG for a refund. BTW: I never received a letter regarding refund or replacement.
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I have a sneaking hunch SG never sent the letters out. It sounded to me like Aim Sports sent the letter to SG and SG was supposed to contact everyone who purchased one, which makes sense since SG would have the sales records not Aim.
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SG never got hold of me until I tried getting the barrel band and bad screws from them, they said to send it back to them for a refund but wouldn't send the parts, that's about the time Ryan got hold of me and sent me the parts.
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are these still available to purchase ? where at ??
SG shows discontinued.... ::)
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are these still available to purchase ? where at ??
SG shows discontinued.... ::)
John, the 1st generation has been pulled and recalled due to the issues with the seals and a couple other things. They are no longer available for sale. The 2nd generation is supposed to be available sometime in the 2nd quarter of 2019.
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are these still available to purchase ? where at ??
SG shows discontinued.... ::)
John, the 1st generation has been pulled and recalled due to the issues with the seals and a couple other things. They are no longer available for sale. The 2nd generation is supposed to be available sometime in the 2nd quarter of 2019.
ok, thanks...i will be waiting 8)
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They were awesome little air rifles despite their issues. The .177 was an absolute laser! H&N Sniper Mediums at 990fps stacking one on top of another, and it held its POI! Side lever, regulated and had a 14 round magazine! It was definitely worth the money spent on it, and if it weren’t for the fact it’s essentially been orphaned with no parts or service available, I’d have kept it!!! It was really hard to let it go!
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Paul I flipped a coin to see which gun I packed tomorrow, the DAR177 won over the Prod. They're both pretty darned quiet too is why I opted for these two to flip on. I'm going for the stealth mode in the morning, I even have a blind to sit in that's been there for a long time. I'm thinking it's probably someone's deer blind from a year or two ago, it's even got a chair in it but I'm bringing a bucket to sit on. I'll be using the JSB 13.43 grain in it. I made sure the mag is full and I'll keep pellets with me too. I'm getting about 25fpe with it which will even be capable of a raccoon if I happen to see one. I haven't used it in quite a while and the pressure is already topped off from the last time I was thinking about using it.
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My bet is that absolutely NOBODY got a letter, an email, or a phone call, regarding any recall of the DAR DYNAMIC. If a copy of a letter turns up, almost assuredly it will be a fake! I bought three DAR's in all calibers on two occasions, and never got a letter! Were it not for this forum, I wouldn't have known about it!
I'd like to hear from anybody who got a letter? So far nobody admits to getting one?
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It's the first time that I seen a gun just appear without any previews of it prior to putting up for sale on a website. I'm almost thinking these guns were put together in late 2017 but really don't know for sure. I haven't seen another with the bulbous shaped mono block like these either, they're a unique design if you ask me. They've sure got thick barrels on them too. I really like the whole design myself, the hammer slides so smoothly inside the polymer sleeve too. I still haven't cut the hammer springs in any of them yet but I really should because they're using too much air the way they are right now I think.
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Paul I flipped a coin to see which gun I packed tomorrow, the DAR177 won over the Prod. They're both pretty darned quiet too is why I opted for these two to flip on. I'm going for the stealth mode in the morning, I even have a blind to sit in that's been there for a long time. I'm thinking it's probably someone's deer blind from a year or two ago, it's even got a chair in it but I'm bringing a bucket to sit on. I'll be using the JSB 13.43 grain in it. I made sure the mag is full and I'll keep pellets with me too. I'm getting about 25fpe with it which will even be capable of a raccoon if I happen to see one. I haven't used it in quite a while and the pressure is already topped off from the last time I was thinking about using it.
Wayne, I'm going to miss that .177 the most! If I buy a Gen 2 when they are released, it will probably be the .177. I'm curious as to what would need to be changed to make it to where you could convert one to different calibers? I'm thinking maybe just the bolt, barrel and TP, what do you think?
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Sent an email to SG customer service and they replied with a shipping label today. I just hope the 2nd Gen is the same minus the leaks. At least it put two squirrels in the pot while it was here.
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Paul I flipped a coin to see which gun I packed tomorrow, the DAR177 won over the Prod. They're both pretty darned quiet too is why I opted for these two to flip on. I'm going for the stealth mode in the morning, I even have a blind to sit in that's been there for a long time. I'm thinking it's probably someone's deer blind from a year or two ago, it's even got a chair in it but I'm bringing a bucket to sit on. I'll be using the JSB 13.43 grain in it. I made sure the mag is full and I'll keep pellets with me too. I'm getting about 25fpe with it which will even be capable of a raccoon if I happen to see one. I haven't used it in quite a while and the pressure is already topped off from the last time I was thinking about using it.
Wayne, I'm going to miss that .177 the most! If I buy a Gen 2 when they are released, it will probably be the .177. I'm curious as to what would need to be changed to make it to where you could convert one to different calibers? I'm thinking maybe just the bolt, barrel and TP, what do you think?
My DAR's are about the only guns I've been using lately, mostly the 25 cal.
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They are tack drivers, I hope the Gen 2 model is essentially the same minus the o-ring issues and stripped grub screws. The design is extremely easy to work on and the power and accuracy are amazing.
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Now Nova Liberty is here and looks really good with the 4500psi air tube, two level power, adjustable regulated, and my .177 DAR leaks air again.decision, decision.
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Well, gents, this is the day I have been waiting for!
The mailman just left my refund checks for the three DARs that I bought!
Aimsport, and Sportsman's Guide both came through for me!
I have only praise for their customer service and how they stood behind the DAR's!
I think everyone involved in this unfortunate episode must have learned a lot from the experience?
Now, I can go on and get myself involved in yet another escapade, hopefully with far less ramifications than the summer of 2018!
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Emailed Ed of Aimsports the weekend, no response. Called Aimsports yesterday and I was told they will find their airgun guy and get back to me, but nobody ever called back. I called them today several times and reached no one.
Called Sportsmansguide 1-800-888-3006 half an hour ago, discussed my options and we agreed on the following:
I will keep hold of my guns until the new updated version is released, then I will get a label to ship the guns back to the SG to
1. Either even Exchange for the upgraded guns
2. Or get refund in case there is no upgrade or if the upgrade is not desirable.
I hope the version 2 will work out and be competitive. The Nova Liberty is very enticing but I think I will hold off on that and wait for the upgrade.
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Emailed Ed of Aimsports the weekend, no response. Called Aimsports yesterday and I was told they will find their airgun guy and get back to me, but nobody ever called back. I called them today several times and reached no one.
Called Sportsmansguide 1-800-888-3006 half an hour ago, discussed my options and we agreed on the following:
I will keep hold of my guns until the new updated version is released, then I will get a label to ship the guns back to the SG to
1. Either even Exchange for the upgraded guns
2. Or get refund in case there is no upgrade or if the upgrade is not desirable.
I hope the version 2 will work out and be competitive. The Nova Liberty is very enticing but I think I will hold off on that and wait for the upgrade.
Nice! I wasn't offered the option of holding on to them and shipping them back when the Gen 2 is released! I hope, for your sake, you got this in writing and got the name of who you spoke to! The person I spoke to gave me the option of returning for a refund, or being stuck with orphaned air guns!
Mine were delivered to SG today, so now I wait for the refund. I'm currently debating what to do. I may go for one of the Nova Vista Liberty's in .177 and hope it's as accurate as the DAR177 was. Then part of me says hold off and get a Marauder in .177 and know what you're getting. Then another part of me says wait and see what JSAR has up their sleeve come December... Decisions, decisions... ::)
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Greg,
I am not sure that SG had given you accurate/correct information.
I have remained in contact with AIM / DAR, and it is my understanding they are currently drafting a letter regarding the recall and full refund offer, that should be made public in the next few days.
It is my understanding that the refund/exchange offer is going to be limited to a deadline of Dec. 1, 2018.
This would mean that whoever has purchased the DAR rifles will have until Dec. 1, 2018 to decide if they
1- want to send these guns back by Dec 1 2018 for a full refund,
or,
2- send the guns back by Dec 1 2018 to be put on a list for a replacement upgraded gun once they arrive from the manufacturer.
It will NOT mean there is an option of holding onto the gun(s) you currently have until the upgraded guns arrive.
If SG had told you that, I think they are mistaken.
I will update you all as I hear more.
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This would mean that whoever has purchased the DAR rifles will have until Dec. 1, 2018 to decide if they
1- want to send these guns back now for a full refund,
or,
2- be put on a list for a replacement upgraded gun once they arrive from the manufacturer.
Well, that just added a 4th option! :o
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This would mean that whoever has purchased the DAR rifles will have until Dec. 1, 2018 to decide if they
1- want to send these guns back now for a full refund,
or,
2- be put on a list for a replacement upgraded gun once they arrive from the manufacturer.
Well, that just added a 4th option! :o
Paul,
I do not see where this adds a 4th option (?).
as far as I have been told and all along from DAR,.. there has been,... and STILL ONLY is,...
...the original 2 options.
This is what I was trying to explain to you in my recent PM to you.
I can understand that some folks have misinterpreted, misunderstood, or simply chosen to ignore what DAR's offer has been.
The bottom line is this,
They have stepped up to the plate in an almost unprecedented manner.
They have accepted that the guns did not perform up to their quality standards, and they have made a open honest attempt to make it right to EVERYONE who has purchased the Gen 1 guns, by offering a basically "no questions asked" 100% refund.
AND,...They did this in a rather timely manner, WITHOUT outside pressure or leverage.
They taken all of this "on the chin" as an unexpected, unfortunate financial loss on their part.
What other airgun manufacturer or parts supplier has done this in recent history ? ? ?
Personally, I think they should be APPLAUDED ! ! !
To me,...that shows a business who is truly committed to their customers,and wont leave them hanging with "Orphaned" guns.
I have a lot of respect for a company who shows that much interest in their customers, and I for one, will be a repeat customer just for that fact.
Sure,...I'm disappointed that this happened.
Sure,... I loved my Gen 1 DAR.
Sure,... I could have just gone and Fabbed some parts and fixed my personal gun myself and been quite happy with it.
But instead,
When I saw the initial design (and potential these guns seem to show), I chose to contact them in a friendly and non contesting manner, to see if I could help.
I did not ask them for anything in return. I told them I am an avid airgunner, that I liked their product, and I would be happy to help them make the necessary corrections, so that we ALL could have a impressive budget minded shooter.
When they realized I was for real, and that the PCP community I was representing was greater than they had expected... They wasted No Time accepting the advise and assistance I was offering... As well as demonstrating to me (and ALL of us) that they are not some garage hobbyist that may be here today, and gone tomorrow.
I respect them for that, and I will gladly wait for the upgraded models to arrive.
So to summerize,
There are only TWO options for the recall as I have already explained.
IMO, They are rather generous options, and everyone has their own chance to either take them up on it, or not.
It is each of our own choice.
What is NOT our choice (or rights) is to expect, or demand, anything beyond the refund or replacement, as they have offered.
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To me there are only two options. Love or money.
If you love the gun then keep it. For better or worse.
If you don’t. Take the money
Always remember. You can always buy another.
Hobby or addiction? I sure don’t know.
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SG said they will make a note on this. But who knows, if Aim had a new policy SG may have to oblige. Will see.
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Wow! Ron, I think you may have misinterpreted my post above. I was referring to my options, not the options offered by Aim! SG did not give me an option to receive another DAR, not to say that won't change once they receive the letter from Aim, but at the time I spoke to them, they only offered me a refund. As for the options, that's just me trying to decide what I want to do, i.e.:
1. Purchase a Nova Vista Liberty in .177;
2. Purchase a Marauder in .177;
3. Wait and see what JSAR is importing next (not to be announced until December), or
4. Wait for the release of the Gen 2 DAR177 and get that.
Again, SG did not offer me any option other than get a full refund or keep the rifles. Hopefully, once they receive the letter from Aim, that may change.
As for Aim, I have nothing but praise for how they handled the situation. Specifically in my case, they went well above and beyond with how they handled my issues! They definitely have my loyalty and regardless of what I decide in the near future, I definitely plan on owning a Gen 2 DAR, it's just a matter of do I want to wait for a replacement, or purchase something else now and then purchase a DAR when they are released in the future.
I hope you did not take my comment above as anything negative toward Aim, because it sure wasn't intended that way!
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I would have a hard time giving mine up right now, is there anyone else out there still using theirs beside me ??? I'm just having nothing but a lot of fun with mine, they're about the only guns that I've been hunting with at all since I've bought all three. My .177 is absolutely trouble free since I replaced the regulator o rings in it, I've had to baby sit my .25 a little but for the last month it's now trouble free, the .22 I simply haven't been messing with it much since the last time I shot it, it did leak out but I'm sure it's probably o rings at fault.
From what others have been saying is that the second generation will not be interchangeable at all, it's hard to see exactly what to expect from them for the GenII if indeed it ever comes out ???
Heck I'm seeing those new Crosmans having as much if not more trouble than what I've been having with my DAR's ???
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I also still have my .25 DAR which I'm still pleased with after I got all of the bugs out. Right now I have no intentions of parting with it unless the GEN II has major improvements and they give me a decent credit towards a upgrade. It's such a clean simple platform with a decent barrel and side lever I can't see a lot of improvements other then MUCH better quality control and premium O-Rings. I don't abuse or force any of my firearms so I expect to get good service out of it and I'm considering a GEN II in .22 if it meets my fancy. My big question is, what are they going to do with all of the returns, recondition, CRUSH or upgrade?
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If Gen2 is different from Gen1 then hard to see how they they would refurb it and sell.
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Wow! Ron, I think you may have misinterpreted my post above. I was referring to my options, not the options offered by Aim! SG did not give me an option to receive another DAR, not to say that won't change once they receive the letter from Aim, but at the time I spoke to them, they only offered me a refund. As for the options, that's just me trying to decide what I want to do, i.e.:
1. Purchase a Nova Vista Liberty in .177;
2. Purchase a Marauder in .177;
3. Wait and see what JSAR is importing next (not to be announced until December), or
4. Wait for the release of the Gen 2 DAR177 and get that.
Paul, I was considering the same things. Especially the Nova vista Liberty sounds very atractive to me with its laser accuracy and 4500psi fill. The price is very low considering its features. Still, I would like to keep DAR if it's GEN2 materialize and quality under control. I would keep my current DARs if we still could get parts but that seems not possible now
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ok guys,
Regarding the recalled Gen 1 rifles, I just received this letter from DAR Customer Service Dept.
They asked me to share it here.
on edit - My lack of 'puter skills is showing here, so I'll see if I can get someone to help me out.
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Well, gents, this is the day I have been waiting for!
The mailman just left my refund checks for the three DARs that I bought!
Aimsport, and Sportsman's Guide both came through for me!
I have only praise for their customer service and how they stood behind the DAR's!
I think everyone involved in this unfortunate episode must have learned a lot from the experience?
Now, I can go on and get myself involved in yet another escapade, hopefully with far less ramifications than the summer of 2018!
Bill,
How long did it take for SG to get you the refund check? I received notification of my refunds, one said it would be refunded to the CC used to purchase it within 1 to 2 cycles, whatever that means. The other didn’t give a method in which they were going to refund it. That was the first purchase.
It will be interesting to see if SG will reach out to anyone and offer a replacement since that wasn’t an option when I spoke to them about returning the 2 I had.
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It will be interesting to see if SG will reach out to anyone and offer a replacement since that wasn’t an option when I spoke to them about returning the 2 I had.
SG will not be offering a replacement.
They were only the Retailer.
They can only offer a refund.
The replacement offer is coming directly from DAR/Aim Customer Service Dept.,
And, when the new models do come in,... The folks who opted for the replacements will be fulfilled directly by the DAR/Aim Customer Service Dept.
Please see my post above, for the official letter they just sent to me today.
They asked me to share it with the members here.
(hopefully I did the attachment correctly ?)
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It will be interesting to see if SG will reach out to anyone and offer a replacement since that wasn’t an option when I spoke to them about returning the 2 I had.
SG will not be offering a replacement.
They were only the Retailer.
They can only offer a refund.
The replacement offer is coming directly from DAR/Aim Customer Service Dept.,
And, when the new models do come in,... The folks who opted for the replacements will be fulfilled directly by the DAR/Aim Customer Service Dept.
Please see my post above, for the official letter they just sent to me today.
They asked me to share it with the members here.
(hopefully I did the attachment correctly ?)
Ron,
Yep, I read the letter, unfortunately, when I spoke to Joe at Aim, I was told I could only return ithem both to SG, which I did. SG said they would only issue a refund, so both rifles have already been returned and the refunds have already been processed. Also, the letter mentions a 1st letter, which I never saw, and when I questioned Joe about sending the rifles back to Aim to get a replacement instead of a refund, he said their established procedure was to return them to SG, so that’s what I did.
Essentially, I feel it’s too late now for me to get the replacement, which I would have preferred. I guess I’ll just wait till the Gen 2’s are released and see what my situation is at that point.
Aim was great to a point, but I really feel they let me down with the instruction I was given, just 2 short week ago because it sure wasn’t what was offered in that letter.
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I think AIM was confusing. Ed offered me either return to SG for refund or sent to AIM for replacement, I chose to repair myself. Only after a month my DAR leaked again, I started to contact AIM to see if I can be in queue for a replacement with upgraded, but could not reach any one then. Now this letter suddenly leaves no options.
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Now this letter suddenly leaves no options.
"no options" ? ? ?
here is a copy/paste of the options, directly from the above attached letter.
1. Full Refund - Contact the Authorized DAR Air Rifle Dealer that you purchased the rifle from, Sportsman’s
Guide, for return instructions and a subsequent full refund. Please contact them as soon as possible to initiate the
refund process to ensure that the transaction is completed before the Dec. 1st deadline.
2. "Trade-in Program"- DAR will work directly with you to take back your current Gen 1 model. Once we receive
your rifle you will be put on a list for a replacement out of the first units of our new and improved 2nd Gen. models
for the caliber (s) you traded-in. We anticipate that these new models will become available in the 1st quarter of
2019. This trade-up carries no additional cost to you. To take advantage of this option contact us at:
RMA@aimsportsinc.com as soon as possible. To speed up the process, please be sure to include the following
information in your initial email: Full Name, mailing address, contact E-mail, Phone number, Caliber and the serial
number of your current 1st Gen. Air Rifle(s).
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Paul:
After they received the guns, it took about a week before SG mailed my refund checks to me, and then 6 or 7 calendar days for the refund checks to reach me via snail mail. The checks were deposited into my credit union account and have not yet bounced!
Bill
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Ok Ron that is good. I will contact them for trade in. 1st quarter 2019 sounds good to.
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Paul:
After they received the guns, it took about a week before SG mailed my refund checks to me, and then 6 or 7 calendar days for the refund checks to reach me via snail mail. The checks were deposited into my credit union account and have not yet bounced!
Bill
Thank Bill!
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Is there anyone that's keeping their Gen 1's besides me, I think I seen Jason say that he was going to keep his DAR25 ???
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Wayne, that’s right. Everything is sorted out on my .25 cal and it’s a great shooter so I’m keeping it. Not the slightest struggle with that decision.
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Is there anyone that's keeping their Gen 1's besides me, I think I seen Jason say that he was going to keep his DAR25 ???
I'm keeping my DAR .25
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I would have kept my .25 also, but after talking to Aim and being told parts would no longer be available, I decided to return it since I don't have the means to produce parts on my own if needed in the future. I'm looking forward to the release of the Gen 2 and the continued support by Aim. I fully expect the new model will surpass the first generation in function and reliability!
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My story regarding the Gen 1 DAR Dynamic guns that I bought, and food for thought to those who are keeping their guns vs those who sent them back for a refund.
When Ryan was the DAR representative, in discussion with him regarding the early advertising of all Dynamics, he agreed to a point that I made to him that the Dynamics were sold as "walnut stocked", not walnut stained as they arrived. I told him that the walnut stocks were a prime reason that I was sold on their products, and that Walnut stained hardwood (no matter how good it looked) is not as valuable as true walnut, and is why I bought all three calibers, and that they needed to make some sort of consideration to me to make it right. It seems that most, if not all of you, were willing to overlook that detail, but I wasn't. I was open to any reasonable offer on their part.
Eventually, because there would not be replacement walnut stocks to send me, and no partial refund was ever offered (at that time), knowing that I always wanted to purchase spare magazines anyway, Ryan offered to send me three magazines for each gun - 9 total. That was a reasonable resolution to my thinking, and I sat waiting for the mags, but they never came. Ryan went on to other things, and you know the final resolve to the story of the DAR Dynamics.
As it were, I was told that Ryan didn't leave much in the line of communication to his successor, no one knew about our deal regarding the 9 mags, and I doubt that AimSport would have ever come through for me with those extra mags - but who knows? Anyway, with no spare parts to come, no mags available except for the one that came with each caliber gun, and the guns being recalled, I saw no other feasible decision to be made except to return the guns for a monetary refund, and re purchase the Gen 2 models when they become available, and then only after they are proven a tried and true successful replacement for the Gen 1 guns.
I think that those of you who are keeping your guns are making a big mistake. With only one magazine and no replacements yet available, only a promise to have them available in the future, what are you going to do if your one magazine breaks, or more likely you misplace it? You might be capable to repair the internal components of your guns, but how many of you are capable of manufacturing your own mags? Do you really think that AimSport is going to do a production run of magazines (in 3 different calibers) for the small handful of you guys who are keeping your Gen 1 guns? I find that hard to believe? Unless Aimsport parts out the guns that have been returned for refunds and amasses a small pile of used mags and spare parts for those who kept their Gen 1 guns and might want one or more in the future, what are you guys going to do?
~ deerflyguy
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I am keeping both mine. No hesitation.
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From what I gather from what Gertrude (Ron) was saying about his last communication with AimSports is the magazines will be available in the first quarter of 2019 and I'll definitely be getting a spare for all mine, especially the .177 and .22 because having a couple with me for the .22 and 3 for the .117 is a must when out hunting. As far as parts go hopefully people will be able to buy parts for them too because I doubt very much that any of the major parts will be changed too much, it sounds to me like the o rings were about the biggest issue with these guns.
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From what I gather from what Gertrude (Ron) was saying about his last communication with AimSports is the magazines will be available in the first quarter of 2019 and I'll definitely be getting a spare for all mine, especially the .177 and .22 because having a couple with me for the .22 and 3 for the .117 is a must when out hunting. As far as parts go hopefully people will be able to buy parts for them too because I doubt very much that any of the major parts will be changed too much, it sounds to me like the o rings were about the biggest issue with these guns.
I am not sure if they are going to just fix o-rings or have a major overhaul. If the former then keeping them would be a fine option. But if they want to up the ante giving the competition then there could be major changes. I have called them to give me a clue but they could not tell. If they are going to deliver by 1st quarter next year then I am sure they should have the design finalized.
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My initial thoughts about my 25 cal when I first got it weren't all that good because I was kinda thinking down the line that Bill (deerflyguy) was about not getting the walnut stock that they claimed, that was a real letdown until I found how easy it was to achieve 60+fpe by only adjusting these guns. There's no way you can take an out of the box 25 cal Mrod or a 25 cal out of the box SPAM16 for that matter and adjust them with what you have to even get close the energy that I can get from my DAR25. They have some really innovative perks on them the others don't. One big one would have to be the hammer sleeve that's in them, it's simply much slipperier than the metal to metal contact you're going to get from the others. I'm guessing that a person will be paying much more than the $250 that I paid for mine and it will probably be more like $350-$399 when all is said and done.
Time will tell . . . . ???
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My initial thoughts about my 25 cal when I first got it weren't all that good because I was kinda thinking down the line that Bill (deerflyguy) was about not getting the walnut stock that they claimed, that was a real letdown until I found how easy it was to achieve 60+fpe by only adjusting these guns. There's no way you can take an out of the box 25 cal Mrod or a 25 cal out of the box SPAM16 for that matter and adjust them with what you have to even get close the energy that I can get from my DAR25. They have some really innovative perks on them the others don't. One big one would have to be the hammer sleeve that's in them, it's simply much slipperier than the metal to metal contact you're going to get from the others. I'm guessing that a person will be paying much more than the $250 that I paid for mine and it will probably be more like $350-$399 when all is said and done.Time will tell . . . . ???
All great points and the same reasons that I planned on keeping mine. Other than much better quality O-Rings and quality control it's hard to improve on the platform and features that DAR's have for the same money.
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I worry about not having a spare mag for my DARs. Hopefully Aim Sports will come through. Meantime I made up a couple single shot trays for them. I don't have a metal shop but do have a nice wood shop. Just a slip fit. They work great.
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Supposedly the mags for them will be available the first quarter next year.
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Good candidate for 3d printing if you have a 3D printer
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Is there anyone that's keeping their Gen 1's besides me, I think I seen Jason say that he was going to keep his DAR25 ???
I am Wayne, mines a .177 cal.
I must of got lucky
I had to tear into mine once to remove the teflon tape that was under the o-rings and replace them. But it has been holding fine since then ..
I love mine and it's very accurate with JSB monsters! Last time I counted I got about 55 shots @ around 830fps on reg.
It ain't going anywhere! Lol
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Great Rhett you got a good .177. Mine has accuracy problem plus leaking. Could be that I need to try more pellets. My 0.25 is very accurate with Benjamins
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I received an e-mail from Aim Sports yesterday, they have a new employee who replaced Ryan, his name is Ralph. He offered me the opportunity to purchase a Gen 2 DAR at the price I paid for the Gen 1, once they are released the 2nd quarter of 2019. I will definitely be taking them up on that offer. Looking forward to getting a replacement for my Gen 1 DAR25. Still up in the air about the .177, I may try something different, just because I don't want to wait on that one...
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Is there anyone that's keeping their Gen 1's besides me, I think I seen Jason say that he was going to keep his DAR25 ???
I am Wayne, mines a .177 cal.
I must of got lucky
I had to tear into mine once to remove the teflon tape that was under the o-rings and replace them. But it has been holding fine since then ..
I love mine and it's very accurate with JSB monsters! Last time I counted I got about 55 shots @ around 830fps on reg.
It ain't going anywhere! Lol
Rhett once I replaced the o rings on my .177 it's never lost air once since, it's probably been the best one of the three for reliability. Mine also shoots the JSB'S like there's no tomorrow, it's laser accurate.
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I received an e-mail from Aim Sports yesterday, they have a new employee who replaced Ryan, his name is Ralph. He offered me the opportunity to purchase a Gen 2 DAR at the price I paid for the Gen 1, once they are released the 2nd quarter of 2019. I will definitely be taking them up on that offer. Looking forward to getting a replacement for my Gen 1 DAR25. Still up in the air about the .177, I may try something different, just because I don't want to wait on that one...
That is a very nice offer.
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I received an e-mail from Aim Sports yesterday, they have a new employee who replaced Ryan, his name is Ralph. He offered me the opportunity to purchase a Gen 2 DAR at the price I paid for the Gen 1, once they are released the 2nd quarter of 2019. I will definitely be taking them up on that offer. Looking forward to getting a replacement for my Gen 1 DAR25. Still up in the air about the .177, I may try something different, just because I don't want to wait on that one...
That is a very nice offer.
Yep, I thought it was very nice considering SG didn’t give me the option. The Gen 2’s should be amazing if they are all the Gen 1’s are with added QC and reliability!
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Update-
Dynamic Air Rifles now has a new Customer Service person to replace Ryan.
His name is Ralph.
His email is - customerservice@dynamicairrifles.com
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I received the email from SG yesterday in regard to keeping , returning for refund or receiving a new gen 2 and it has to be decided by Dec 1 18
What is every one doing?
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Got the same email twice yesterday (because I bought two rifles?). I will exchange.
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That's pretty funny Greg I got three emails from them cause I've got all three calibers lol
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I just received my email and after looking over the DAR again I decided that I'm still going to keep it because as stated before, I like the platform, design, accuratecy and simplicity of it.
Picking up a GEN II in .22 is in the stars when they are released.
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Has anyone tried the DARs with the Piledrivers? Both in .177 and .22?
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I should have waited... SG was clueless when I returned mine.
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I just received my email and after looking over the DAR again I decided that I'm still going to keep it because as stated before, I like the platform, design, accuratecy and simplicity of it.
Picking up a GEN II in .22 is in the stars when they are released.
Aimsports has said in email that they will have the pellet cassettes ready for the gen1 so you should be fine.
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Greg that in itself tells me they're not going to completely redesign them. I figure they'll probably put better o rings in them for sure.
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Greg that in itself tells me they're not going to completely redesign them. I figure they'll probably put better o rings in them for sure.
Wayne that was my reading as well. I was hoping that they will make some improvement s such as getting a higher pressure air tube.
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If they don't increase the selling price I can't see how they can improve the design. They have to improve the materials, O-rings and quality control to make it a buyable product.
If they offer a better grade of wood or a adjustable synthetic stock as an option I don't think that anyone would complain if they have to pay more for something that they want.
Either case I will still get a DAR .22 when they are out unless they revert back to an old bolt design with the same name. I will wait and see.
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Here's the poppet after about 1000 pellets through the rifle:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6123)
Clean break at the bottom of the hole where the stem goes.
The rifle started hissing a few days ago and I was busy so I put it aside. This evening when I took it apart, I didn't yet know where the problem was. I got the cylinder off and the gauge was reading that it had some pressure, maybe 500psi. I tapped the stem with the plastic end of my screwdriver and got a burst of air so I figured I might as well pump it up and see what happens. Well I found out when the pressure got to about 1500psi...the stem ejected and smacked a cabinet and came spinning to a stop on the kitchen floor. Pleased to report that my underwear are no worse for the experience, and the family is still sleeping like the dead.
For anyone wondering, this rifle is fitted with a weaker hammer spring and preload is adjusted to be on the knee of the velocity curve, so the poppet was not getting slammed inordinately hard. I can't really say if it failed because it's an inadequate material or the cross section was too small or what.
I'm going to hunt through my parts box to see if I have an OEM poppet that I can modify to replace it, otherwise I'll make a new one from Delrin or PEEK.
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The poppet in my .177 failed the same way. I was shooting it at the time, and after a couple shots, it broke and sounded like a huge fart!
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Hi Paul, thanks for giving me confirmation it has been known to happen. I didn’t recall hearing about it.
It was really working nicely leading up to when it failed so I’m just glad to now know what happened so I can fix it. Even with my caveman tools it shouldn’t be too bad
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If any of my poppets break I'll be picking you guys brains, especially the cave man tools version of making one.
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Fwiw,
Of the (5) .25 cal guns my group of buddies has, 2 of them have broken the poppet the same way. I am fairly confident it is related to the material used for the poppet head.
This is one of the changes I suggested to DAR when I had my long meeting with them.
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Sounds the DAR needs improvement. I am glad l returned mine. Hopefully the next version will not have these problems
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Back in business:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6125)
I used a piece of Delrin rod a GTA member graciously sent me a while back. The steps were:
1. Cut a piece 0.55" long.
2. Center drilled it with a #32 drill bit to a depth of 0.325".
3. Used a wood clamp to carefully press in the stem.
4. Chucked it up in the drill press via the stem, and used a carbide burr in the Dremel to reduce the OD to 0.295" (same as the original poppet). The Delrin rod was initially 0.5" diameter so I had about 3 cubic feet of little white shavings when I got done.
5. Ground down the end for a seat for the valve spring. Only made it about 0.1" tall...the factory one was 0.3" and there's no need for it to be that long.
6. Made a lapping fixture by drilling a #31 hole in piece of scrap wood. Used a hollow punch to knock a series of holes in a piece of 220 grit paper.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6126)
Note the hole was drilled with a drill press so it's nicely perpendicular to the wood's surface. This aspect is not absolutely required. If the hole is slightly angled, you can still successfully lap the poppet, it will just have a slight taper to it.
7. Passed the poppet through the paper and through the wood, and grabbed the stem with a handheld drill and pulled against the sandpaper while spinning it.
8. Used a black marker to color the sealing face of the poppet. When the sandpaper has removed all the black, you know the surface is flat so it can seal properly. It took a lot of cycles in this case. I used all 20 holes you see punched in the sandpaper. This sandpaper was old and worn though so it probably would have been quicker had I used a fresh piece.
9. Lapped it a couple of final times for about 15 seconds each in the actual valve using J-B Bore Compound.
Once I had it all back together, it took just a few pump strokes before it sealed completely.
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Nicely done Jason
Great write up.
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Thanks for the great last reply you did there Jason, I've had this thread bookmarked since the day it showed up, if I need to make one it looks like the way to go. I've got the perfect delrin rod that I originally bought for making HiPAC seals with, it's 3/8"(.375) which would cut down on the pile of shavings.
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Jason---excellent write up on making poppets. I will add that I actually find peek to be EASIER for me to "machine" and create perfect seals with than delrin. I think I get in too big of a hurry and end up fuzzing and/or melting delrin. Peek machines and even polishes almost like it was metal. It handles heat much better so I can get away with using high speed to my advantage. The hardest part is drilling a close to perfectly centered/square pilot hole to press the stem into.....but assuming the poppet is a little smaller than .375 a little off center/off square can be machined out.
After pressing the peek poppet on the stem, I chuck the stem in my dremel's flexible shaft----the flexible shaft's chuck has a wide range of adjustment so it will handle most poppet stem sizes. I rely on high rpm and a light touch to "machine" perfectly round poppet bodies and perfectly square poppet seats. The poppet seat/sealing surface is finished by running at max rpm, being careful not to get the part too hot. Step 1 is true the seat with a sharp file (the same file I use to reduce/shape the 3/8 peek rod with); step 2 is to smooth the seat with 500 grit wet/dry sandpaper; step 3 is to polish with 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Then color the seat with a sharpie, insert into the valve, and lightly burnish/lap with a cordless drill until a nice uniform circle is worn into the colored poppet face.
I hope that more members will read your post and realize most anyone with a dremel, cordless drill, and/or drill press can make replacement poppets. it just takes some time.
BTW---I recently lucked out and scored a 3 foot section of 3/8 PEEK off of Amazon for $12. Either it was clearance or a mistake on their end, but I snagged it the moment I saw it. Can you say "poppets for life" lol.....
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Mike I need to get some of that PEEK and try it some time, I've never used it. Right now the delrin 3/8" rods I bought I had researched before buying them, they're very hard and tensile strength is over 7000psi. When I bought them it was for making seals for HiPAC's which I've run at 3000psi with no leaks. I'm thinking that if I do have poppet problems with any of mine I might order some PEEK to try it out.
The seals on those HiPAC's I made replaced the original c02 sealing washer in the 22xx's.
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Wayne, the delrin you have should work very well if you follow Jason's guide. It is also more forgiving of valve seat imperfections. I prefer peek in general primarily for the reasons I explained above. But also, If you are making a poppet that seals against a tapered seat, peek is typically going to be a lot easier to knock open as it won't get wedged down in the seat like a softer material will.
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Hi Ron, Wayne, Mike. Thanks for the positive comments on the poppet. I sincerely hope it will help someone who has a favored rifle out of commission. It took a couple of hours to get it done but it was nice to be back up and running and I expect the Delrin piece will last a good long time.
Mike, thanks for sharing your experience with working PEEK. I have a rod that I thought about using but since this rig is regulated at “only” 1500psi, I decided on the Delrin. Based on comments from Bob and Scott (I think) that I ran across along the way, I kinda partitioned off PEEK in my mind as being mostly useful above 2000psi. Not that it can’t be used at lower pressures but that the advantage in ease of opening is outweighed by the unforgiving nature of it sealing.
If you have experience using it at low-ish pressures, would you mind telling me what you think?
In exchange let me share something I wish I had done a long time ago. Regarding the melting and fuzzing up problems with working Delrin with caveman tools, I’ve tried files and sanding discs and had some of the same issues. A few months ago I picked up two small assortments of carbide burrs, one with 1/8” cutters and the other with 1/4” cutters (with shanks that fit a standard rotary tool…3mm or 1/8”, whatever it is). I think each set of 10 was around $15 on Amazon.
They are amazing.
The first use was shaping a rear downslot in a steel QB receiver. It’s something I’ve done several times before…drilling a starter hole as large as possible, cutting away what I can with a fiberglass or emery wheel, and then doing the final shaping with a round file. The last part I dread, so much so that I’d procrastinate about doing it. Let me tell you the first time I spun up one of the carbide burrs, I was skeptical. Then the bit met the workpiece and little shavings started flying. So easy to control, so effortless, great results…just beautiful.
And it turns out they work great on Delrin too. Fast stock removal and doesn’t overheat the part, and leaves a surprisingly good finish that doesn’t take much time with a file to smooth out.
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Jason---I agree those carbide cutters are awesome. I have both ferrous (finer teeth) and non-ferrous (coarse teeth) versions, only in 1/8" shaft.
While peek is less forgiving that delrin, so long as you have a good round valve seat with a consistently sized sealing surface you will have no problems with peek. I've used it down to 90-100bar set points with no issues. Ultra light hammers really compliment the peek poppet at lower pressures.
Note I've never run a hammer heavier than 20 grams with a peek poppet and lower pressures. Heavier hammers may present a challenge due to the valve being so easy to open when running peek poppets at low pressure
Where it does present challenges is when your valve seat isn't close to perfect in shape and/or finish. For example, when boring out a QB78 valve throat, if you have already hogged out and radiused the valve exhaust port the drill will try to walk up a bit (towards the valve exhaust port) when boring out the throat. So you end up with a ever so slightly off center valve throat. After lapping the seat one area of the seat is sometimes wider than the other. This type of imperfection typically doesn't affect soft oem poppets. Delrin typically handles it as well. Peek can be a little more challenging with imperfect valve seats.
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Mike, thanks for detailing out your experience with making PEEK poppets. What you said about enlarging the throat on a QB valve makes sense, given the raised lip. So far I think the largest I’ve drilled it out was just to remove the upward beveled portion which meant the flat was still (mostly) present to serve as the sealing surface. I recall reading about your build...going for power so I assume you went with more aggressive porting.
I think I’m going to start with the B50 that I’ll be (finally) starting on soon. It will be a .25 cal conversion tuned for power at the full 3000psi pressure, so I’ll cut my teeth on that before trying it at lower pressure.
Meanwhile regarding the DAR, I’ve had some time with it since the repair. When setting the hammer spring for the velocity knee, it ended up needing less by almost 3/4 turn. That doesn’t sound like much but considering how coarse the threads are on the end cap, it’s huge. Most of that difference I assume is the Delrin being harder than the OEM material so I can appreciate the PEEK being another big step in that direction.
And it just makes me giddy when I sit down with a tin of the 34gr heavies. Last night I went out in the cold and rezeroed it, stopping when two went through the aspirin-sized builseye at 43 yards.
A couple hours later I took it back out again to send one pellet to the check for possible POI shift (reg creep). When I saw the glint from the flashlight reflect off the skirt as it passed through the same hole as the previous two pellets, I was in disbelief.
If they can get the QC sorted out on these things, they’re going to have a winner.
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.... And it just makes me giddy when I sit down with a tin of the 34gr heavies. Last night I went out in the cold and rezeroed it, stopping when two went through the aspirin-sized builseye at 43 yards.
A couple hours later I took it back out again to send one pellet to the check for possible POI shift (reg creep). When I saw the glint from the flashlight reflect off the skirt as it passed through the same hole as the previous two pellets, I was in disbelief.
If they can get the QC sorted out on these things, they’re going to have a winner.
I have been consulting with DAR on a regular basis.
I'm waiting to hear from them that the parts and changes we have discussed are here.
Once that happens, trust me, I will be working on it to get these rifles up to their full potential.
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These work really nice in the DAR25
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1936/44273397275_c2dd969fac_b.jpg)
very easy getting over 60fpe with it too.
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Thanks Ron, I’m glad to hear that. It can only benefit their designs to have you consulting with them, and in turn that makes them better for everyone.
Wayne, I really wish you would quit reminding me that you have yours churning out 60fpe! ;D
I’m afraid to fool with mine. It’s one of the most accurate air rifles I’ve ever used so I’m going to keep riding it out at a more modest power until I can’t find JSB Heavies it likes.
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Jason I've since turned mine down to around 50fpe shooting the 26 grainers, I get a lot more shots this way with fantastic accuracy as well.
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For those that don't want to spend the money for peek. (Mike is a lucky man, I just paid 20 bucks for 6 inch rod of peek). Grrrrr!!!
There is a product called PEP-T that is pretty much between delrin and Peek, and dirt cheap!
It does very well at 3100 psi. RKR is using it in his mega FPE builds.
but then again, It isn't Peek. Which is 40% stronger than Delrin according to a manufacturer spec sheet that makes both. It also handled higher heat! ;)
Knife.
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It's PET-P for those interested in researching it. Also sold under the trade name Ertalyte.
In a quick search, Grainger's pricing stomps a mudhole in Amazon's but I imagine shipping levels it out.
https://www.grainger.com/category/raw-materials/plastics/plastic-rod-stock?attrs=Material%7CPET-P&filters=attrs (https://www.grainger.com/category/raw-materials/plastics/plastic-rod-stock?attrs=Material%7CPET-P&filters=attrs)
https://www.amazon.com/Rod-PET-P-White-Dia-x1/dp/B01M0HA3WF (https://www.amazon.com/Rod-PET-P-White-Dia-x1/dp/B01M0HA3WF)
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The PET-p I ordered was priced the best at McMaster car for me. I didn't think to check wit granter. The PEEK I ordered on Ebay. Kinda high but no shipping charge so it worked out.
Knife
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Any news when the updated DARs will ship?
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Any news when the updated DARs will ship?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150686.50 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150686.50)
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Any news when the updated DARs will ship?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150686.50 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150686.50)
Thanks Ron. No hurry, hope they get a good one this time.