20FPE vs 20FPE : Pumper vs PCP

[DavidS]

Can you actually get 20 fpe with a pumper?  Maybe so, if you have the longest barrel, best internal parts, put some time in the build .  And then pump how many times?
A pcp, can get that out of the box, easily.  Stock.  And if you miss a critter, the follow up shot will be possible.

Just arguing with you, as I am building a 1322 now.  They are fun.  But I see the value of PCP too.

You can get more than 20FPE with one of the oldies.     A Crosman 140 with a flat head piston can produce 20FPE at 15 pumps.      So yes the Pumpers can produce more than 20FPE at low pump counts.

See:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=18193.0

[DavidS]

Can you actually get 20 fpe with a pumper?  Maybe so, if you have the longest barrel, best internal parts, put some time in the build .  And then pump how many times?
A pcp, can get that out of the box, easily.  Stock.  And if you miss a critter, the follow up shot will be possible.

Just arguing with you, as I am building a 1322 now.  They are fun.  But I see the value of PCP too.

And thank you.    You brought up a good question, for a separate thread.

[farmerjoe99]

Hmm kind of tough question because a lot of it is personal needs;here are my thoughts on why I went with a pcp.
Like you say they can both be made very quiet.
(although it might be possible to make a pcp quieter than a pumper at higher fpe)

But I wanted to be able to reload without moving much, I understand that a pumper can made
quiet to pump, but can you reload from a shooting position with only a slow movement of your hand?
that is what I like about pcp's.That movement can give me away when I'm hunting, possibly scaring off other local game.
Plus my back-up shot is a full 20fpe(say to take another rabbit that stood up when you shot etc.)
And it actually take less total pumps for me to take 10, 23fpe shots from my disco
then for a pumper that take 10 pumps per shot for a 20 fpe shot
It takes me less than 50 pumps to fill my disco but it would take a pumper 100 pumps
I can do all mine at once and relax while the pumper is continually upping his heart rate.
If you are always out in the woods for days at a time and are shooting tons of round then yes a
pumper has an advantage but if your total is only 60ish shots there are many fairly light weight pcp that
will do that on one fill.So for my uses I went with a pcp, but I still respect pumpers and their abilities.
Joseph

[DavidS]

Reloading with out having to move much is a good point.   I usually only have two shots before I have to pump (one from my main Rifle, and one from my 2289).      And there have been times that my potential second or third target has spotted me as a result.

[AudiS4]

I like that you argue for your light weight pumper, and now you are carrying two rifles??? A PCP pump, do not weigh that much, so your logic is clearly flawed.

[DavidS]

I like that you argue for your light weight pumper, and now you are carrying two rifles??? A PCP pump, do not weigh that much, so your logic is clearly flawed.

It does not matter what kind of AirRifle I carry, I will always have a backup.   So 2 PCP's and 2 PCP pumps??

If you really want to harp on what extra I carry my .36 revolver weighs more than any two of my AirRifles.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I like that you argue for your light weight pumper, and now you are carrying two rifles??? A PCP pump, do not weigh that much, so your logic is clearly flawed.

.....just a very bad case of Envy, that continually needs to be justified over and over again

[Sfttailrdr46]

  David having back up is not a bad idea ever when I had my 28ft fishing boat I had 4 working bilge automatic pumps and a manual back up pump and a 12ft inflatable for if it really hit the fan . When I hunted for big game always have a 44 mag Ruger Red Hawk w/8" barrel. I have always been a belt and suspenders kind of guy when in the field or on the water. Back up is not a bad thing.

[DavidS]

I like that you argue for your light weight pumper, and now you are carrying two rifles??? A PCP pump, do not weigh that much, so your logic is clearly flawed.

.....just a very bad case of Envy, that continually needs to be justified over and over again

No i have had a couple of HPA AirRifles, and did not like them do to external equipment requirements.

Though when I have tried Springers, HPA/PCP, and CO2 I have found myself envying pumpers, so I end up going back to what is good for me, pumpers.

[DavidS]

David having back up is not a bad idea ever when I had my 28ft fishing boat I had 4 working bilge automatic pumps and a manual back up pump and a 12ft inflatable for if it really hit the fan . When I hunted for big game always have a 44 mag Ruger Red Hawk w/8" barrel. I have always been a belt and suspenders kind of guy when in the field or on the water. Back up is not a bad thing.

Yes definitely.

It seems as if so long as I have the backups I never need them, though if I do not have the backups I will invariably need them.    I know that it just seems that way, though it really does seem that way.

[grauhanen]

I may have missed something in this discussion, but are there many stock pumpers that can be had that are 20 FPE rifles?  The Benjamin 392 and ...? 

On the other hand, there are many 20 FPE PCP's from which to choose.

[DavidS]

I may have missed something in this discussion, but are there many stock pumpers that can be had that are 20 FPE rifles?  The Benjamin 392 and ...? 

On the other hand, there are many 20 FPE PCP's from which to choose.

Crosman 140, 1400.   There are others, all older ones.   There are reports that some Sharp Innova II's will do 20FPE, though that seems to be hit and miss from what I have read.     I would guess that if you get lucky and get the high end of QC possibly a .22 Webley Rebel.

Show me a stock 392 that can do 20FPE and I will be impressed.   Now a tuned one yes it can be brought up to shooting greater than 20FPE.    I think it likely that the older 392's may have been able to perform in that range stock.

[Habanero69er]

Stock? Only one I know of is the FX Independence/Indy, which in .22 is rated @ 30 FPE. My Steroided Benji 342 makes 20+FPE with 12 pumps.

[DavidS]

Stock? Only one I know of is the FX Independence/Indy, which in .22 is rated @ 30 FPE. My Steroided Benji 342 makes 20+FPE with 12 pumps.

You forgot the Crosman 140 .

[rsterne]

I seriously doubt that a STOCK 140 or 1400 will ever see 20 FPE.... The pump cup will deform before you reach those pressures, especially with stock port sizes.... Once you fit an F-T-P, and hog out the ports, then yes, but the trigger pull is so hard as to be nearly useless....

Will a STOCK 392 hit 20 FPE?....

Bob

[Habanero69er]

I seriously doubt that a STOCK 140 or 1400 will ever see 20 FPE.... The pump cup will deform before you reach those pressures, especially with stock port sizes.... Once you fit an F-T-P, and hog out the ports, then yes, but the trigger pull is so hard as to be nearly useless....

Will a STOCK 392 hit 20 FPE?....

Bob

+1

[DavidS]

I seriously doubt that a STOCK 140 or 1400 will ever see 20 FPE.... The pump cup will deform before you reach those pressures, especially with stock port sizes.... Once you fit an F-T-P, and hog out the ports, then yes, but the trigger pull is so hard as to be nearly useless....

Will a STOCK 392 hit 20 FPE?....

Bob

Thank you for the correction.   As I have not yet gotten my 140, I was going only on the numbers that others have posted for there stock 140.

[StevenG]

How are you keeping game refrigerated for weeks while out hunting? Conversely if you some place very cold how do keep from it ending up freezer burnt? Not to even mention the other issues, I have friends who climb mountains, amatuers but dedicated, they don't typically stay out for weeks and they get their gear delivered to base camp with helicopters.

You must sleep somewhere leave you pump there, any PCP holds enough shots for one days hunting.

Also I question your math if a pumper takes 6 pumps to get to 20fpe for thirty shots that is 120 pumps no way can a PCP take more pumps. The pump volume on your typical standup pump is much larger than any pumper. I don't know how much bigger, but I bet professor rsterne does.

 The only pumpers I know of that can even hit 20fpe are the Indy and the millennium pumper the good professor created and is now being put into production.

[grauhanen]

This discussion, then, is about a modified pumper or one that is no longer made (Crosman 1400?) compared to a PCP, both shooting at about 20 FPE?  And it is also about which is best to take for an extended hunting trip of a week or more with the aim of filling a freezer full of rabbits, squirrels, birds, and whatever else that is in season that might fall to a 20 foot pound air rifle?  And further, one should take a "back up" gun along for the ride in case the primary gun fails so the hunt can continue in order to "feed the family"?

It seems that this kind of paints the discussion into a corner.

[bubba zanetti]

How are you keeping game refrigerated for weeks while out hunting? Conversely if you some place very cold how do keep from it ending up freezer burnt? Not to even mention the other issues, I have friends who climb mountains, amatuers but dedicated, they don't typically stay out for weeks and they get their gear delivered to base camp with helicopters.

You must sleep somewhere leave you pump there, any PCP holds enough shots for one days hunting.

Also I question your math if a pumper takes 6 pumps to get to 20fpe for thirty shots that is 120 pumps no way can a PCP take more pumps. The pump volume on your typical standup pump is much larger than any pumper. I don't know how much bigger, but I bet professor rsterne does.

 The only pumpers I know of that can even hit 20fpe are the Indy and the millennium pumper the good professor created and is now being put into production.

Because SteveG, when one lives in "Cloud-Coo-Coo Land" ANYTHING is possible. It doesn't have to be true, one just has to believe its true and then it magically is!

BZ