20FPE vs 20FPE : Pumper vs PCP

[rsterne]

Well there are a few modified pumpers that can hit 20 FPE, but none of them will do that in 6 pumps from zero pressure.... The only ones that have a chance on doing that are Retained Air Pumpers (also known as Air Conserving Pumpers or ACPs), which are basically a PCP with an onboard pump.... The FX and my Millennium Pumper are prime examples, and I am not aware of any others that hit that 20 FPE....

Bob

[K.O.]

well if I got the valve hot enough Maybe

[DavidS]

How are you keeping game refrigerated for weeks while out hunting? Conversely if you some place very cold how do keep from it ending up freezer burnt? Not to even mention the other issues, I have friends who climb mountains, amatuers but dedicated, they don't typically stay out for weeks and they get their gear delivered to base camp with helicopters.

You must sleep somewhere leave you pump there, any PCP holds enough shots for one days hunting.

Also I question your math if a pumper takes 6 pumps to get to 20fpe for thirty shots that is 120 pumps no way can a PCP take more pumps. The pump volume on your typical standup pump is much larger than any pumper. I don't know how much bigger, but I bet professor rsterne does.

 The only pumpers I know of that can even hit 20fpe are the Indy and the millennium pumper the good professor created and is now being put into production.

The stockpile hunting takes place when it is very cold out.    And I take vacuum bags, and a little hand pump vacuum pump for the meat (yes it takes a lot of extra work, though all of the meat is good).

Yes we sleep somewhere, in the late afternoon we find a spot near where we happen to be and make camp (meaning that we carry all of our supplies from camp to camp).

I had always thought this to be the standard method of stockpile hunting.   Now the supply is kept up through the rest of the year by simple day hunting as needed in the mornings.

As to 20FPE power levels, that is at least 12 (or 15) pumps with a power tuned 392, or 140.   Never heard of 6 pumps for 20FPE.

I am not sure about the exact number of pumps on PCP's, I know it took my last project HPA Rifle with home made HPA pump about 200 strokes, and that gave around 25 good shots.

The millennium pumper is way out of my price range even to build.

[rsterne]

A Disco takes about 3 pumps per 23 FPE shot....

Bob

[DavidS]

How are you keeping game refrigerated for weeks while out hunting? Conversely if you some place very cold how do keep from it ending up freezer burnt? Not to even mention the other issues, I have friends who climb mountains, amatuers but dedicated, they don't typically stay out for weeks and they get their gear delivered to base camp with helicopters.

You must sleep somewhere leave you pump there, any PCP holds enough shots for one days hunting.

Also I question your math if a pumper takes 6 pumps to get to 20fpe for thirty shots that is 120 pumps no way can a PCP take more pumps. The pump volume on your typical standup pump is much larger than any pumper. I don't know how much bigger, but I bet professor rsterne does.

 The only pumpers I know of that can even hit 20fpe are the Indy and the millennium pumper the good professor created and is now being put into production.

Because SteveG, when one lives in "Cloud-Coo-Coo Land" ANYTHING is possible. It doesn't have to be true, one just has to believe its true and then it magically is!

BZ

Ok I am tired of being called a lie-er to my face when I am telling the truth.   You finally managed to scare me away from these forums, at least for a bit to cool down.  I may be back in a couple of days.

[Paul68]

Lets keep it respectful guys, please.

[StevenG]

I got the 6 pumps number from your first post on this topic.

With a PCP you pump hundreds or thousands of strokes for usually about 30 to 40 consistent shots.    With  pumper you pump about 6 to 15 times per shot, just before the shot.

Either that gun was dumping air after the shot or your pump was less effective than is typical

I was not honestly aware stockpile hunting was still a thing, I thought that went out of fashion with the invention of agriculture. I am sure in your situation it makes sense. To me it sounds like a temporary job would be much easier.

[DavidS]

@Bubba Zanetti:
I must apologize for jumping on with that response.   That should have been in a PM.     I apologize for being a bit quick to anger.

[DavidS]

I got the 6 pumps number from your first post on this topic.

With a PCP you pump hundreds or thousands of strokes for usually about 30 to 40 consistent shots.    With  pumper you pump about 6 to 15 times per shot, just before the shot.

Either that gun was dumping air after the shot or your pump was less effective than is typical

I was not honestly aware stockpile hunting was still a thing, I thought that went out of fashion with the invention of agriculture. I am sure in your situation it makes sense. To me it sounds like a temporary job would be much easier.

I see the missunderstanding.    I ment that for many things you would only need to pump 6 times if you have a pumper that does 20FPE at 15 pumps.    I guess I was not clear .   My fault.

[DavidS]

I am done talking about hunting.   I seem to be to often misunderstood in that area.

My interest in this thread is the comparison between equally capable MSP's and PCP's.    I apologize for my role in taking things off topic.

[ToRmEnToR]

I'd vote PCP

[Motorhead]

Gotta say .... Stroking ones gun that much is a young mans game, those of us with a few more years behind us tend to use those hands for other tasks like massaging and rubbing

All in fun 

[DavidS]

Gotta say .... Stroking ones gun that much is a young mans game, those of us with a few more years behind us tend to use those hands for other tasks like massaging and rubbing

All in fun 

LOL.

[Nomadic Pirate]

There's just no comparison, many 20 FPE PCPs have way more than 100 shots on tap once filled ( heck 40-50 FPE PCPs have upward to 60-70 shots),
.... no need for any additional pumping once filled, how much stuff can you kill in one outing ?

again a pumper cannot even touch a multishot PCP,...not even remotely close,...in all aspects.

Dreaming is fine, reality is different.

[DavidS]

There's just no comparison, many 20 FPE PCPs have way more than 100 shots on tap once filled ( heck 40-50 FPE PCPs have upward to 60-70 shots),
.... no need for any additional pumping once filled, how much stuff can you kill in one outing ?

again a pumper cannot even touch a multishot PCP,...not even remotely close,...in all aspects.

Dreaming is fine, reality is different.

I understand your perspective, and respect it.

My personal perspective happens to be that I do not like PCP's, mostly do to the required support equipment.   A couple of other reasons as well.

We all have our own preference.   I would say that they are all correct for the person.

[bubba zanetti]

DavidS:

When you help fellow GTA members with their Daisy and Crosman MSP's, you are a an asset to this forum, and you have helped many and should be proud. As your love of MSP's has given you some knowledge that can be passed to others allowing them to take good a AG and possibly make it great. Ultimately, that is what makes the GTA a fantastic forum, the free exchange of information that is sometimes hard won or paid for in some form or fashion, but freely given to those who come seeking it out to use on their AG.

However, when a forum member decides to create threads that are nothing more than a ruse to bait forum members into a 'friendly' argument that is nothing more than veiled  arrogance at its core. I believe, when these self promotions are buried within the contact of a thread, they should be called out. Not to embarrass the author of the threads, although that is sure to happen, but to ensure the integrity of the forum and what it stands for: The love of air gunning.

Under the love of air gunning, all are welcome, all have their place and all are a joy to shoot.

So lets keep the integrity high shall we?

Peace,

BZ

[DavidS]

DavidS:

When you help fellow GTA members with their Daisy and Crosman MSP's, you are a an asset to this forum, and you have helped many and should be proud. As your love of MSP's has given you some knowledge that can be passed to others allowing them to take good a AG and possibly make it great. Ultimately, that is what makes the GTA a fantastic forum, the free exchange of information that is sometimes hard won or paid for in some form or fashion, but freely given to those who come seeking it out to use on their AG.

However, when a forum member decides to create threads that are nothing more than a ruse to bait forum members into a 'friendly' argument that is nothing more than veiled  arrogance at its core. I believe, when these self promotions are buried within the contact of a thread, they should be called out. Not to embarrass the author of the threads, although that is sure to happen, but to ensure the integrity of the forum and what it stands for: The love of air gunning.

Under the love of air gunning, all are welcome, all have their place and all are a joy to shoot.

So lets keep the integrity high shall we?

Peace,

BZ

That is the idea of this thread, keeping the integrity high.   And letting each learn more about there preferred platform.  I have said none other.

My hope is that by comparing the two each of us can learn more about what we like.     All AirRifles/AirPistols have there place, and every one has there preference.   Comparison is a good way of learning.

[Doug Wall]

I've been staying out of this, but, the Crosman 140 is a really poor choice to try to get a consistent 20fpe out of. First, it's a 12fpe gun with the recommended 10 pump max. Trying to get a lot more out of it is just asking for a stress related failure. Second, the valve, trigger on the 140 is a blow off valve. The more you pump it up, the harder the trigger is to pull. A steroided 392 might get you there, but I've pumped my 140 enough to know that you aren't going to get anything remotely resembling a quick follow up shot at game.
I don't own  a PCP, but with your 20fpe requirement, you need either a PCP or magnum springer for follow up shots.

[DavidS]

I've been staying out of this, but, the Crosman 140 is a really poor choice to try to get a consistent 20fpe out of. First, it's a 12fpe gun with the recommended 10 pump max. Trying to get a lot more out of it is just asking for a stress related failure. Second, the valve, trigger on the 140 is a blow off valve. The more you pump it up, the harder the trigger is to pull. A steroided 392 might get you there, but I've pumped my 140 enough to know that you aren't going to get anything remotely resembling a quick follow up shot at game.
I don't own  a PCP, but with your 20fpe requirement, you need either a PCP or magnum springer for follow up shots.

I can understand what you are saying.   I am expecting to get around 700FPS with CPHP equals 15.5FPE at ten pumps once I finish tuning mine, this based on the numbers from others.     The trigger is an issue, though to pump 5 times for 9.9FPE and enough for a large portion of my hunting, I will be happy to do 99% of my shooting at 5 or 6 pumps.    And i am aware that shooting a 140 at 20FPE would be quite difficult regardless of what else is done.

20FPE is just a common number for PCP's so I kind of pulled it out of my hat.    I guess it would be better to have asked for equal FPE vs equal FPE .     Would have caused less misunderstanding.

[DavidS]

I must apologize if it is felt that any of my responses are argumentive and or coersive.  That is the last thing I would want, I am aware that my interpersonal skills are poor, and as such I sometimes do not come off in the intended manner.    It was pointed how my responses are interpreted and this makes me feel bad.     I do wish more people would be willing to just PM me and let me know, as I feel terrible now.

This is one of the areas that I have had difficulty.   As a result of what I thought was indifference in another recent thread that I created I deleted all of my posts and had the moderator lock it and move it to non productive.     Another recent thread got out of hand and began containing survival related posts until it got locked, and I did not know how to keep it on track, I think if I could have better kept that one on track it would still be going.

Now I am told how people interpret my responses in this thread as argumentative and coercive, and I truly feel terrible, as that was never the intent.   I only intended to continue the comparisons.   so I offer 1000 apologies for this whole thread.