20FPE vs 20FPE : Pumper vs PCP

[OleTomCat]

Why not have the best of both worlds with a Millennium Pumper.....

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=77542.0;topicseen

  will you gift me the $1000 (or what ever it costs)?

Follow the plans and build you own.....

[rsterne]

why did not you keep your Crosman 140 and figure out a way to improve the trigger and keep the extra power?

Simple, when I go hunting, I'm not going to exercise my biceps and provide cardio for my heart.... The 140, at 20 FPE, is a BEAST to pump, and you have to do that for every shot.... Plus, it's a LOT heavier than either of my Grouse Guns.... A good gun, yes, but not my idea of an ideal hunter.... For about the same size and weight I have a QB79 HPA that gives me 80 shots at 26 FPE on a tank....

Bob

[Charles Outdoors]

 Kind of like the difference between a muzzleloader and a bolt action rifle or a Semi-auto for that matter.
When squirrel and rabbit hunting with a shotgun I never carried more than 20 rounds and never shot half that many. My disco would cover that easy. Set up 25 fpe my TalonP carbine would get 20+ usable shots for sure. Both these guns are light and easy to handle. No way to know how many hours I spent hunting with pumpers. Countless times I wished for a quick second shot. Miss a squirrel or rabbit and many times I've pumped as quietly and quickly as possible to get a second shot if presented. Hard to do with Clack clack clack clack clack , 5 will do it, dang it too late. I have ran through the woods pumping and following a squirrel from tree to tree. Now that I'm older I find an tree with lots of squirrel activity and sit back and wait. One shot, if lucky maybe 2 wait a bit and it's not long till the woods return to normal. Not so easy with a pumper.
  Plinking I don't mind pumping for a while. Shooting 5-10 shot strings much easier with a PCP and my big ole bottle sitting beside me on the table.
 PCP is just easier once you have a tank and shoebox.   

[Sfttailrdr46]

  If light weight and stealth the PCP has the edge because as a powerful "repeater the occasions of needing a follow up or second target of opportunity when it only takes 1 sec to reload and shoot the second target . If you are talking self contained for prolonged wilderness survival the springer has a definite edge since all you need is the rifle and a supply of its favorite pellet . there are pros and cons for all AGs and some of the decision is based on user prefrence. For me I would want three rifles maybe 4 Daystate Regal XL  .25 , D460 .177  TX 200 MK III .22 and my newest addition the Beeman RX2 .20. I can take anything up to a White Tail and down to a field mouse or anything in between with ease and survive well for years.

[Motorhead]

Shoot what you want, carry what your willing, enjoy your choice.
All the other talk or arguments made is simply defending that choice or pushing an agenda.

Just sayin 

[K.O.]

I love pumpers but when we pump we stress the gun slightly and in Bobs case I do believe he was bending the tube getting the last bit of power out of one during testing...

I stick with a pump cup and use large valve volume to get 20fpe I feel accepting the lower pressure limit puts less stress on the gun  but even

with a valve large enough to get 17.5+ fpe on about 1000-1200 psi (17 pumps) you can feel that it stresses the gun some...

This is the same gun you want to be accurate... over time it takes its toll... the pcp on the other hand switches most of the stress elsewhere...

[bubba zanetti]

Shoot what you want, carry what your willing, enjoy your choice.
All the other talk or arguments made is simply defending that choice or pushing an agenda.

Just sayin 
[/qurote]

Amen.

BZ

[K.O.]

We can gain some of the multi shot advantage by adding a thick walled valve extension and tap it to add a small tank to our pumpers... I have not done the math but I believe the mk tube can do a 1 shot 40-50 fpe or two 20 ish fpe shots on about 60 pumps with the right size tank...

it still stresses what we want accuracy from but I do like self contained.

It could be done for about 200 dollars... the more you spend the better parts you can get. just like you can beef things up to take the stress better but you will pay($ and weight).

[Dead-On]

the pcp on the other hand switches most of the stress elsewhere...

Yeah, my wallet!

J/K 

[K.O.]

the pcp on the other hand switches most of the stress elsewhere...

Yeah, my wallet!

J/K 

So I guess you are voting pumper

[LAalex]

Shoot what you want, carry what your willing, enjoy your choice.
All the other talk or arguments made is simply defending that choice or pushing an agenda.

Just sayin 

+1.  Springers are my favorite.  I want another multi-pump, probably a Sheridan.  I want a pcp one day too.  But I don't plan to sit here arguing which one is "best".  Its the Ford vs. Chevy; 9mm vs .45; .270 vs 30-06 etc. type deal.  The bottom line is it's an argument nobody can win.

Scotty

[Dead-On]

the pcp on the other hand switches most of the stress elsewhere...

Yeah, my wallet!

J/K 

So I guess you are voting pumper

Well I'm not really voting since I like them both. But if I was forced to pick one over the other I would probably pick PCP. I'm going on 47 and have health issues so I appreciate the ease of use with PCP's. If I was asked the same question in my teens, twenties or thirties I would have easily picked pumpers. 

I currently have 6 PCP's and 4 pumpers in my arsenal.

[Habanero69er]

My MSPs are my 20FPE guns & the PCPs are my 30+FPE guns. To me they're a source of entertainment & they're also tools. So what ever trips your trigger!

[oconeedan]

Can you actually get 20 fpe with a pumper?  Maybe so, if you have the longest barrel, best internal parts, put some time in the build .  And then pump how many times?
A pcp, can get that out of the box, easily.  Stock.  And if you miss a critter, the follow up shot will be possible.

Just arguing with you, as I am building a 1322 now.  They are fun.  But I see the value of PCP too. 

[Sfttailrdr46]

  I own and use all 3 and enjoy all 3 , If I had to choose it would be based on the particular occasion. For me accuracy is paramount  I will not own a rifle or pistol that does not satisfy that criteria first and foremost. Weight and effort to charge although a consideration not #1 on my list. Enjoy the debate that is what I enjoy . Another consideration is the Millennium Pumper which is still in development by a fellow GTAer  around $1,5 00  40fpe multi shot and looks to be an interesting rifle once it is in production. I will probably add one to my collection for the wow factor

[stonykill]

If those you know that hunt do so by leaving for weeks at a time, that is certainly not something I can deny.

What I dispute is that such a scenario is typical, thus my comment about "in all but the most unusual of circumstances".

Even for long hunting trips, most will be at a camp of some sort where one could certainly recharge a PCP in the evenings.

And where the goal is to build big stockpiles of meat, I don't believe for a second that the typical hunter approaches that goal with a 20fpe air rifle.  Not saying it can't be done.  Just saying most hunters don't look to fill their freezer with meat by shooting a truckload of squirrels and rabbits.  It is way more practical to do it with 2 deer and a hog, and if that is to be done by way of an air rifle, that is squarely within the realm of big bore PCPs.

I say this as someone who has a freezer full of squirrels, but I did so because I enjoy hunting them.  Most definitely not because it was an effective way to spend my time to feed myself and my family.

To each his own.  I could spend a week hunting deer and hog with my Powder Burners, or I could spend the same week hunting squirrel, rabbit, rock dove, etc and get 3 times more meat, so it is what works to feed the family.

I do hunt around home to help maintain the supply (and because I enjoy hunting).      Though that is just go out get one or two and be home in time for lunch.

  The debate is interesting. But I'll disagree with this part. In the same week of hunting I took a 180 lb 8 pointer, and a 120 lb 6 pointer. I dare you to put that much meat in a freezer in a week with a 20 fpe hunter. The 180 lb 8 point took me 4 very long evenings to process alone. One of his hind legs alone was bigger than a few dozen huge rabbits. Heck one of his back straps alone weighed more than a few dozen rabbits.

  And in full discloser I used a crossbow on the 8 and a PB on the 6.

   Point being in 4 days, yup got them 4 days apart, in the same "work week" I completely filled a chest freezer. I don't care how many hours a day you spend with a 20 fpe hunter, you are not going to do that.

  I like a good discussion. But "spin" is not one of my favorite things.

   For me, I prefer a pumper over a pcp. I also prefer a good springer over a pcp. It is all in what one likes. All have advantages and disadvantages.

   

[stonykill]

 edit for accidental double post
 



 

 

[Habanero69er]

Can you actually get 20 fpe with a pumper?  Maybe so, if you have the longest barrel, best internal parts, put some time in the build .  And then pump how many times?
A pcp, can get that out of the box, easily.  Stock.  And if you miss a critter, the follow up shot will be possible.

Just arguing with you, as I am building a 1322 now.  They are fun.  But I see the value of PCP too.

My steroided Benji 342 gets 21 FPE shooting 28 EunJins, with 12 pumps. So it's possible without a long barrel, but you definitely need some internal upgrades.

[DavidS]

Shoot what you want, carry what your willing, enjoy your choice.
All the other talk or arguments made is simply defending that choice or pushing an agenda.

Just sayin 

Now that first sentence is a truth.

[DavidS]

Shoot what you want, carry what your willing, enjoy your choice.
All the other talk or arguments made is simply defending that choice or pushing an agenda.

Just sayin 

+1.  Springers are my favorite.  I want another multi-pump, probably a Sheridan.  I want a pcp one day too.  But I don't plan to sit here arguing which one is "best".  Its the Ford vs. Chevy; 9mm vs .45; .270 vs 30-06 etc. type deal.  The bottom line is it's an argument nobody can win.

Scotty

Not looking for an argument.   Just the opinions of people.  I am genually interested in why people have there preference between PCP and MSP.