Mobile and lightweight HPA filling solution

[rsterne]

I wasn't suggesting that the regulator output pin valve would do the job at 4500 psi.... and once opened, it may well be nearly (or completely) impossible to close.... A different valve would be required, and could, very easily, have the restricting orifice designed as part of it.... I use such a design for my bleed valves.... It uses a seat identical to that in your regulator body (small raised area with a very small hole) and the seal is a 3/8" NF bolt with the end drilled and a piece of Delrin inserted.... Unscrew the bolt, valve is open, screw it in, and it seals.... perfect for a bleed valve that vents the pressure....

This design would have to be changed to not jam at 4500 psi from the end force on the bolt.... a pressure balanced design (or one with a small shaft seal) would be required....

Bob

[Pursang]

Our engineer thinks that trying to depress the activating pin on the top of our regulator might be tough to press down with a full 4500psi coming out.  This is something that we've noted though and will be looking at in the future.  We would much rather put out a product that has a set output pressure to ensure someone does not overfill and reduce that liability but I see how an unregulated system might be a better solution for users that have multiple guns with different fill requirements.

Thanks again, Bob.  I dont think our Engineer is going to get much sleep over the next year with all of the projects he's working on

Yes, Bob, I was thinking of an unregulated valve.

Rob, what we strive for in a PCP guns tune is the maximum number of shots with the least variation in muzzle velocity from the first shot to the last.(Extreme spread) The velocity usually follows a bell curve, for example, a gun may shoot 850fps on shot 1, 865 on shot 10, 880 on shot 15, and work it's way back down to 850 on shots16 through 30. That would be 30 shots with an Extreme spread of 30. That's not too bad.

Now if your gun starts off at 800 on shot 1 and climbs to 880 on shot 15, back down to 800 on shot 30, an ES of 80fps is not very good, and will result in a different point of impact during the shot string due to the large velocity difference. In this situation, the correct thing to do would be to fill to a lower pressure to "tighten up" the ES, and probably have fewer shots.

These variables change depending on the power level you have the gun adjusted to.

The ability to fill to different pressures is very important to most, and not having it would be a dealbreaker to many.

Would it be possible to regulate to 3300psi, and stop the fill before 3300 is reached by using a gauge, or the gauge on a gun?

[NinjaPaintballRay]

Understood and noted, Bob.  I am going to pass this recommendation along to our owner and Engineer.

Pursang - Hypothetically speaking, we should be able to eventually come out with a regulator at 3300-3400psi.  We've head about some of the air rifles requiring pressures above 3000psi but we were told it is a very small segment of the market.  We needed something that would cover a majority of whats on the market today.  Higher output regulators, externally adjustable regulators, and the such are all things we are considering for the future.  If we do release something at 3300psi, you wont have to rely on the gauge on the gun to tell you what you're filling up to since the regulator will prevent you from overfilling.  However, its always good to have some type of indicator/gauge for piece of mind while filling.

[rsterne]

I think what Pursang was referring to is a regulator to set the maximum pressure, but then close the valve before it reaches that pressure if you need to fill a gun to a lower pressure.... That would require, IMO, a much finer control than what the typical pin-valve actuator can do.... Once they are pressurized in the "on" position, they are often quite hard to close.... impossible if the shuttle is too big for the regulator output pressure....

Bob

[Pursang]

I think what Pursang was referring to is a regulator to set the maximum pressure, but then close the valve before it reaches that pressure if you need to fill a gun to a lower pressure.... That would require, IMO, a much finer control than what the typical pin-valve actuator can do.... Once they are pressurized in the "on" position, they are often quite hard to close.... impossible if the shuttle is too big for the regulator output pressure....

Bob

Right again Bob


The point I'm trying to make is how important it is to be able to fill to different pressures. If the new Ninja tanks had this ability, they would be game changers with the lower price.

[cherokeesteve]

Just wanted to post up I noticed the Ninja setup has gone from the preorder stage at Pyramyd to being in stock.

[airpuffhunter]

yep I ordered 2, for my friends, they will be here in couple days

[cherokeesteve]

yep I ordered 2, for my friends, they will be here in couple days


Truly a great deal considering you get the carbon fiber 90cu in, 4500psi tank(same as the Benjamin kit), steel braided hose w/female disconnect and bleeder, and regulator for 3000 psi output (Benjamin kit is not regulated) for 299.99 vs. 399.99 for the Benjamin package.

[Pursang]

Just wanted to post up I noticed the Ninja setup has gone from the preorder stage at Pyramyd to being in stock.

Now that the tanks are in stock, the "no coupons allowed today" has disappeared from the listing. That makes the price $270 plus shipping.

[sperho]

Seems like this option coupled to a Freedom 8 would allow nearly unlimited tethering for a gun that was tuned to a 2900 psi fill pressure.  I'm calculating at least 250 shots on a .22 Marauder before going off regulator and then a lot more before the pressure drops outside of the useable pressure window. This is a good bit of shooting for me and if one had two of these bottles, one could be filling on the F8 while you were shooting off the other.  Shouldn't take more than 45 min to go from 3000 to 4500 at 8 CFM and I know that I'm not going to be shooting 250 pellets in that amount of time under normal circumstances....  Then, you'd have 2 mobile bottles as well.  The only limitation would be if you were out in the field and wanted massive amounts of air or you had a gun that you wanted to fill at > than 2900 psi, which in this case, you might be shopping for a bigger bottle.  Am I thinking about this correctly?  Would this regulated bottled be safe to tether from on a bench?  I'm going to be buying something soon and I'm trying to come up with the best combo, which will include a Shoebox...

[cherokeesteve]

Seems like this option coupled to a Freedom 8 would allow nearly unlimited tethering for a gun that was tuned to a 2900 psi fill pressure.  I'm calculating at least 250 shots on a .22 Marauder before going off regulator and then a lot more before the pressure drops outside of the useable pressure window. This is a good bit of shooting for me and if one had two of these bottles, one could be filling on the F8 while you were shooting off the other.  Shouldn't take more than 45 min to go from 3000 to 4500 at 8 CFM and I know that I'm not going to be shooting 250 pellets in that amount of time under normal circumstances....  Then, you'd have 2 mobile bottles as well.  The only limitation would be if you were out in the field and wanted massive amounts of air or you had a gun that you wanted to fill at > than 2900 psi, which in this case, you might be shopping for a bigger bottle.  Am I thinking about this correctly?  Would this regulated bottled be safe to tether from on a bench?  I'm going to be buying something soon and I'm trying to come up with the best combo, which will include a Shoebox...

Don't know if I understand fully, but what you're thinking about doing is leaving a tank hooked up to your gun? If this is right it sounds to me like what a lot of paintballers do, use a "remote" hooked up to their markers and feed off that. Sounds like it would work to me, would only use for plinking/target shooting, not hunting that you do any stalking .

[cherokeesteve]

Just wanted to post up I noticed the Ninja setup has gone from the preorder stage at Pyramyd to being in stock.

Now that the tanks are in stock, the "no coupons allowed today" has disappeared from the listing. That makes the price $270 plus shipping.
[/quote]

Sorry, didn't notice that before. That makes this set up a great buy!

[NinjaPaintballRay]

Just wanted to post up I noticed the Ninja setup has gone from the preorder stage at Pyramyd to being in stock.

Now that the tanks are in stock, the "no coupons allowed today" has disappeared from the listing. That makes the price $270 plus shipping.

Sorry, didn't notice that before. That makes this set up a great buy!
[/quote]

Hows your system working out for you so far cherokeesteve? 

btw, I had a chance to go shoot it up at CPX a few weeks ago.  700+ players the day before Easter.  Can you say target rich paintball environment? 

[cherokeesteve]

Hows your system working out for you so far cherokeesteve? 

btw, I had a chance to go shoot it up at CPX a few weeks ago.  700+ players the day before Easter.  Can you say target rich paintball environment? 


Working great. Average 5 fills before needing to top off. 35 shots takes gun from 2 bar down to 1 bar. Set up is very light weight as well. Submitted 7 paintball to Crosman's fill station map and noticed it was on there.

700+ paintballers? Ray Charles could've had a good day there!

[NinjaPaintballRay]

Nice!  That is great news and Im glad to hear the system is working out for you.  So far, we've been receiving excellent feedback from people using this system to fill and also for tethering.  Had a report of someone getting 200+ shots while tethered during a competition.  Pretty interesting seeing the different uses for this

Yeah, CPX was a blast!  Cant wait to get out there to shoot it up again.  Im also getting ready to head to the Flag City Toys That Shoot show in Findlay, OH in a few days.  I can't wait to see all of the vintage guns and custom stuff at the show.

[AmBraCol]

Thanks to Ninja for listening to us.  I'm not sure if the small bottle option got dropped by the wayside or not.  A 13ci tank with a real 2" diameter is just the right size (dia) for using on a QB78/79 and is a common option for those converting this CO2 rifle to HPA.  There may be a market for a larger capacity option that went up in length but not diameter.  In other words, keep the same 2" diameter but lengthen it out for higher capacity/greater shot count.  If this could be done in carbon fiber with 4500 psi regulated down to 900-1200 PSI, 2" diameter with over 13ci there MIGHT be a market for folks using this platform.  It would come back to price, probably.

As for the compressor, 2500 is way past your typical home user, but you've indicated that you're aware of that.  The 220 volt may be a deal breaker for some, 120 is much more common and would make it more attractive. 

Once more, thanks for giving us the chance to have some input on useful articles for our hobby!

[cherokeesteve]

Noticed last night while at pyramyd's site that the fill stations are in"limited quantity "(isn't everything ) sure hope they're ordering more when they're out.

[NinjaPaintballRay]

Thanks to Ninja for listening to us.  I'm not sure if the small bottle option got dropped by the wayside or not.  A 13ci tank with a real 2" diameter is just the right size (dia) for using on a QB78/79 and is a common option for those converting this CO2 rifle to HPA.  There may be a market for a larger capacity option that went up in length but not diameter.  In other words, keep the same 2" diameter but lengthen it out for higher capacity/greater shot count.  If this could be done in carbon fiber with 4500 psi regulated down to 900-1200 PSI, 2" diameter with over 13ci there MIGHT be a market for folks using this platform.  It would come back to price, probably.

We have a 13ci tank with your choice of output pressure on the regulator.  Pressure will range anywhere from 300psi on the very low end up to 3000psi output on the high end.  We dont really want to get anything larger than the 13ci at this time because the length and diameter play a big factory on if the cylinder will fit on the gun you want to put it on.  I like the idea but I just dont think our manufacturer will invest the thousands of dollars needed to try and make and certify that type of cylinder unless there was a large market for it.

As for the compressor, 2500 is way past your typical home user, but you've indicated that you're aware of that.  The 220 volt may be a deal breaker for some, 120 is much more common and would make it more attractive. 

Good information and thank you for sharing.  I'm going to bring the unit with me to the Flag City Toys That Shoot show this weekend and see what people think.  Not sure how difficult it would be to convert it to 120 or if it can even be done but I'll mention this to our owner as a feature some people might like to see.

Once more, thanks for giving us the chance to have some input on useful articles for our hobby!

My pleasure!  I have never been a big shooter but i'll tell ya....the more I dig into this industry and see what you guys are capable of doing with these pcp guns, the more it interests me.  If any other questions come up, post in here and i'll do my best to answer.  Thanks and hopefully i'll get a chance to meet some of you guys in Ohio this weekend or at another show later during the year

[NinjaPaintballRay]

Noticed last night while at pyramyd's site that the fill stations are in"limited quantity "(isn't everything ) sure hope they're ordering more when they're out.

Yes, they have been selling very well for them so far.  Dont worry, they wont be in "limited quantity" for long

Btw, I'll be at CPX in Joliet May 17-19th for their big Living Legends paintball big game.  If you're in the area that weekend, stop by the booth and say hi.  Would be great to meet you in person

[rsterne]

Rob, there is a 22 CI 3000 psi tank that is (just a few thou under) 2" in diameter already available in the marketplace, and I recently discovered there is also a 17 CI.... They all use the same 5/8-NF threads in the neck, so the regulators will interchange....

Bob