Quote from: NinjaPaintballRob on February 07, 2013, 03:28:44 PMThanks, Mark! How many shots are you getting off of the 13ci/3000psi bottle with an output of 1100psi before you need to refill the cylinder? Hypothetically speaking, if someone came out with a cylinder that is similar in width to the 13ci/3000psi bottle or maybe slightly larger in diameter but also longer, would it be beneficial to you? We're wondering if a slightly longer or larger aluminum bottle might be better or if there are any size/length restrictions which force you to use a smaller bottle.I have a 13ci Ninja tank with 1100 psi regulator for one of my QB79s. My other 2 have 17ci Catalina RAP4 tanks with 1500 psi regulators that perform better for this application. The tank diameter must be 2" max. for this application. I would like to see you make higher volume tanks in the 2" max. diameter size and offer some higher output regulators of the SHP style with orientation adjustment ring. The ability to adjust orientation is a great feature of the SHP regulator for air gunners. We could really benefit from some additional high pressure output settings above your current max. 1100 psi setting of the SHP regulator. You would then own the market for QB79 HPA conversions.
Thanks, Mark! How many shots are you getting off of the 13ci/3000psi bottle with an output of 1100psi before you need to refill the cylinder? Hypothetically speaking, if someone came out with a cylinder that is similar in width to the 13ci/3000psi bottle or maybe slightly larger in diameter but also longer, would it be beneficial to you? We're wondering if a slightly longer or larger aluminum bottle might be better or if there are any size/length restrictions which force you to use a smaller bottle.
I don't think you will find Ninja making regulators where the pressure is pushed too close to the 1.8K burst disc pressure, as they don't want the disc to keep venting, which will happen if you get the pressures too close to 1800 psi, particularly if you fill the gun indoors and them put it in a hot car or out in the hot sun.... I always use a 1.8K burst disc in my QBs because they were designed for CO2, and you should always protect them from seeing over 1800 psi.... Burst discs have a tolerance, and can fail as much as 10% below their marked pressure (ie 1620 psi for a 1.8K disc).... If you fill a gun at 70*F and then take it into 120*F temperatures, the pressure will increase about 10% above the regulator setpoint.... If that is 1500 psi, you're looking at 1650.... Combine that with a low tolerance 1.8K disc, and it WILL vent.... While this is not unsafe, it is merely annoying, it WILL scare the heck out of you, and will spoil your day of shooting if you don't have a spare with you.... I have had this happen with a regulator set at 1600 psi, but never at 1500.... maybe I've just been lucky.... At 1400, it would be very unlikely....There is another Gremlin working against you, though.... metal fatigue.... Each time you let the pressure in the tank go below the regulator setpoint, the burst disc flexes a bit as the pressure drops and then recovers when you refill.... Heck, it even flexes a tiny amount during each shot.... That continual movement of the thin metal disc in the burst disc will fatigue it, and eventually it will fail.... The closer you push your setpoint to the designed failure point of the disc, the shorter the life will be.... Most burst discs are fitted so that their rupture point is 5/3rds of the working pressure.... You will find 3K discs on 1800 psi CO3 tanks, 5K on 3000 psi HPA tanks, and 7.5K discs on 4500 psi SCBA tanks.... Working backwards from a 1.8K disc gives you 1080 psi as the appropriate working pressure for a 1.8K disc to have a "normal" life span.... The Ninja SHP tanks are obviously set at 1100 psi with that in mind, IMO.... Yes, you can bump up the pressure a bit, PROVIDED you leave the 1.8K burst disc in place on a QB or 22XX (even a Disco).... I use 1500 psi all the time, and I have used 1600 (with the occasional failure as noted).... 1400 psi would probably work just fine.... but I rather doubt you will convince Ninja to do that from the factory.... For most "converted" CO2 guns using HPA, fitting a 3K burst disc to avoid it failing is, IMO, a very UNSAFE practice.... Doing so will mean that a regulator leak will dump full tank pressure (3000 psi) into a gun designed for 850 psi, and "maybe" designed to be safe at 1900 psi (the pressure achieved by CO2 at 120*F), providing the engineers did their homework and the bean-counters followed their design.... I know of a QB79 where the tank block blew off the end of the main tube when the mounting screws sheared during a regulator failure with the tank at 2600 psi, and no downstream burst disc in the (cheap) regulator.... Nobody was hurt, but it could have been fatal.... NEVER operate a QB on HPA without a 1.8K burst disc downstream of the regulator....Bob
I was using my Fill Station last night and found it a bit frustrating.... I have one I made using a Ninja reg which was factory set to 2500 psi, and a Ninja valve which pushes the pin valve open.... It was very stiff initially, so I lubricated the threads (where the friction was) with Moly (only on the outboard side of the O-ring) and it's much better.... However, it opened really easy, but as soon as it's pressurized, it gets instantly a lot more difficult to turn, either to open or close.... Since I was trying to fill a Disco (2000 psi) I needed good control over the output so I could shut it off at that pressure, rather than letting the regulator do it's job.... Because the knob is stiff to turn, it was hard to shut it off when I needed to.... Even if I was filling to 2500 psi it still would have been hard to shut off (actually even harder from the higher pressure).... This is because of the design of the valve.... The sealing O-ring is large enough that it puts a lot of end force on the threads, causing the friction.... There is a limit to how small it can be, of course, and some similar valves with larger O-rings are impossible to shut off over 1500 psi (I know, I've had some of them).... By comparision, the valve on my SCUBA tank can be opened and closed with two fingers, it has hardly any resistance at all because it uses sliding components and a balanced design.... In order for this fill station to be more useful (and IMO safer), I think it needs a balanced design for the valve so that it can be opened and closed effortlessly and with good control over the flow.... This would be CRITICAL for the design to be used without a regulator, of course.... I hope Ninja address this issue on their new fill station.... Since it's only "on paper" at the moment, I thought it might be a good time to mention it....Bob
You can't slowly eak out the air to fill disco.
I have a ? Now that you've divulged a version 2 in the works, I'm wondering. For my amount of shooting my Mrod, this looks to be a good, not too costly a solution for me, However, would I end up with buyers remorse having not waited for V-2. Or .... is it something that will retro-fit. Can you tell us more about V-2 ? or is it hush, hush at this point ? Hope this makes sense.
I used my regulated 2000 output one for the first time today. It was very easy to control the fill rate, and I would think after trying two fills that you could stop at about any pressure in the gun you wanted.Bill
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