Are the New Crosman 362 and Benjamin 392 pump rifles soon to be replaced?

[Eagle Eye]

With the new Air Venturi / Seneca Dragonfly Mark II just being announced where does this leave the future sales of our Crosman / Benjamin pumper rifles?  The features included on the Seneca are improvements a lot of us have been asking from Crosman for years. 
     The biggest being include a metal breech with a dovetail or picatinny mount for a scope. We don't want a proprietary barrel mounting kit, we wanted a proper non proprietary breech for mounting scopes and rear sights. Crosman has been manufacturering steel breeches for years but they have continued to play the game of buy this extra piece for extra money aftermarket or in the custom shop for too many years. This one piece with a proper common sized dovetail mount should have been added and included with at least every rfile produced for the last 20 years. And in the last five years made to fit a small Marauder style magazine.  Instead the Crosman customer has had to find and buy aftermarket products like the GravMag. Truely frustrating because I would like to keep the American manufacturering jobs not just the shell office.
     This lack of making small improvement to the rifles and pistols that use this platform over the years may cause the loss of our beloved Crosman / Benjamin / Sheridan air rifles. It's so sad to watch bad management decisions continue to cost Amaerican jobs.  I watched Sheridan fall locally when they were bought out. Then Benjamin fell and if Crosman doesn't improve and innovate.  Are they not far behind?   

[Back_Roads]

 Have a Dragonfly II preordered, but I will not have much fun tinkering with it, any luck it will be point and shoot. SPA makes some nice airguns.

[Ronno6]

The Dragonfly II is at a price point comparable to the 392s, but double that of the 362.
And, as Mr. James pointed out, not much tinkering to be done on the DF II (Deuce)

I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........

[CraigH]

There are some Dragonfly advantages - but the front end looks a bit flimsy.   Especially if pumping is as difficult as mentioned above.

The price point of the C362 (I do not have one) protects it very well.

The 392 market is , at least a bit, "retro".   And I like old 1960's Crosman guns, but the current 392, Maximus, Discovery, and 2260 triggers are poor.   Not unexpected that the 362 is similar.

Of the three (DF, 362, 392) I would buy the 362 and make it "mine" for another $50.

[Wayne52]

I'm pretty much done buying SPA products and I have my reasons.

[triggerfest]

If the mass market opportunity for pumpers would be really that bad... Would you think that Crosman still launched this new 362 then ?

[Firewalker]

With the new Air Venturi / Seneca Dragonfly Mark II just being announced where does this leave the future sales of our Crosman / Benjamin pumper rifles?  The features included on the Seneca are improvements a lot of us have been asking from Crosman for years. 
     The biggest being include a metal breech with a dovetail or picatinny mount for a scope. We don't want a proprietary barrel mounting kit, we wanted a proper non proprietary breech for mounting scopes and rear sights. Crosman has been manufacturering steel breeches for years but they have continued to play the game of buy this extra piece for extra money aftermarket or in the custom shop for too many years. This one piece with a proper common sized dovetail mount should have been added and included with at least every rfile produced for the last 20 years. And in the last five years made to fit a small Marauder style magazine.  Instead the Crosman customer has had to find and buy aftermarket products like the GravMag. Truely frustrating because I would like to keep the American manufacturering jobs not just the shell office.
     This lack of making small improvement to the rifles and pistols that use this platform over the years may cause the loss of our beloved Crosman / Benjamin / Sheridan air rifles. It's so sad to watch bad management decisions continue to cost Amaerican jobs.  I watched Sheridan fall locally when they were bought out. Then Benjamin fell and if Crosman doesn't improve and innovate.  Are they not far behind?

I have a different take on the issue. I use airguns as entertainment and therapy, the tinkering part is also a piece of that entertainment so as I look at a $200 gun vs a $100 gun that is also a Lego gun with hundreds of interchangeable parts available, I tend to lean towards the gun that encourages a longer effect.

If I shoot a mediocre gun with so-so accuracy,  I'll get bored and it becomes a closet queen. If I can tweak and mod, that boredom is delayed years or even a lifetime.

The 362 will keep me entertained for a long while. 

[TerryM]

  I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered.  I'd give them a year, two years tops.  I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.

[StevenG]

  I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered.  I'd give them a year, two years tops.  I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.

Not sure on the latter, but yes on the former.
It's low production, uses solder instead of screws so repair-ability suffers as well as production cost, low demand item that won't fit in a big box store.

[sticman77]

i feel the 362 was made to phase out the 392 altogether.

crosman is a universally recognized name for pumpers IMO.  but the market for folks who want to tinker etc. may be smaller than some think.  i think the majority of folks these guns are made for are to ppl who hand them to a kid or just start shooting.

will be hard to beat daisy and crosman name recognition wise, but if you need to go off brand to get wood furniture, and it works well who knows what will happen

[sticman77]

The Dragonfly II is at a price point comparable to the 392s, but double that of the 362.
And, as Mr. James pointed out, not much tinkering to be done on the DF II (Deuce)

I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........

check their promo vid out.  looks like the pump is made to work similar to the aspen/freedom which was notoriously easy to pump for the pressure it reached (250 bar)

[Firewalker]

  I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered.  I'd give them a year, two years tops.  I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.

It may but they may have different offerings such as a steel breech, metal trigger, wood stock, etc. The real money maker is parts and longevity. How many here have several Lego guns? How many still shoot? How many parts just sit in a box.

This may be the "One pumper to rule them all"

....or not...

[2K1TJ]

I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........

Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.

At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper 

[RBQChicken]

That video really caught my interest.  I then read about the gun on PyramidAir, and I got to thinking - 15 pumps?  The max velocity looks nice ( I was looking at .22 cal. - 730 fps with 11.9 grains = 14.08 ft. lbs., so a heavier pellet will get even more power.  How much, I don't know.   Sounds good, but wait!  It takes 15 pumps to get there?  Almost double the max pumps of a benji or sheridan?  I'll wait to see what kind of power it gets on 8 pumps. 
Very nice looking gun, I'll bet the accuracy is good, and it looks like they solved the free floatiing barrel issue that many objected to on the first iteration of this gun.  AND, looks like you could easily put a dovetail type Williams peep sight on it.

2K1TJ has a point about the weight.  Not too bad a weight, but I really like the 5# or so weight of the old time benji/sheridans.
Still, I'm going to keep an eye on this one.

[EdinGa]

I look at the Crosman lego guns as the 10/22s of the airgun world. There are tons of aftermarket parts and endless ways to customize them. I think the 362 will be with us for a long time at this price point.

[Keepingitsimple]

The 'new' 392 being replaced? The one with the ugly stock? That one?

Of course its being replaced. It's being replaced by the 362.

Wood stock Benji 392's will likely increase in price. I know I'm not ever going to sell my peep sighted (with the 0.150 aperture), 392. Even though my new 362 is going to become my main air gun (quite possibly for the rest of my life), I'll never let go of my 392.

Nor will I be letting go of my legos either.....

Have fun with the Dragonfly, guys. I'm going to be having way too much fun with my 362 to even think about one.

[Spacebus]

I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........

Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.

At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper 

I may end up getting one just because I already have the PCP pistol and rifle version. The pump linkage looks novel, and it is much easier to put on optics right out of the box compared to the c362 or 392s. If the DF II can make 16+ FPE it will be a winner to me, especially with the handsome German Beech stock. The stock on my CR600/Stormrider hybrid is beautiful and every bit as nice looking as the stock on our Eagle Claw.

[Back_Roads]

 15 pumps yes, but they say every pump will seem to be the same effort. 

[sticman77]

I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........

Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.

At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper 

I may end up getting one just because I already have the PCP pistol and rifle version. The pump linkage looks novel, and it is much easier to put on optics right out of the box compared to the c362 or 392s. If the DF II can make 16+ FPE it will be a winner to me, especially with the handsome German Beech stock. The stock on my CR600/Stormrider hybrid is beautiful and every bit as nice looking as the stock on our Eagle Claw.

easy to put on optics AND a moderator!  comes pre threaded.  i feel like they are building what people have been asking for for a long time

[Firewalker]

What I find the most interesting is that you really dont have to close the pump handle (if the video is accurate) as the piston stops at about 60 degrees from the horizontal. The remaining motion just folds the pump handle.

Or am I mistaken?