Avenger Divots?

[triggerpost]

So PA sends out guns AGAIN with problems and is silent until the end buyer is mad ?    Time to get some better people in QC department or just say give us your cash and shut up...This stuff is getting old PA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[triggerpost]

a 4000+ psi thin wall china made who tube with grub screw digs in it ?   ya right it's safe....Lol Lol...........

[triggerpost]

the way we see it ,the tube is no stronger than its thinner grub screw digs, Maybe Sterne can hop in on this one ?  I would say it is NOT cool and ship it back.....4000psi is no joke!!!!!

[oldpro]

 I thought they had Titanium tubes? Looks like alloy to me

[KnifeMaker]

I honestly think that a better barrel band should be made to replace what I'd consider a defect in engineering.  If the air tubes are made of titanium it wouldn't seem like that divot would be right in the metal like they are, it's not a good design IMO.  I see a corner cut that could possible be a future leak after use   Not really what I'd consider a safe design.

Whether ti or alu., it is easy enough to learn the difference. Steel=Magnetic, Alu. will be soft and easy to de-burr with a sharp knife blade. It will cut smoothly. Ti, very tough and near impossible to de-burr easily.


Knife

[triggerpost]

well Knife we just might see a factory first in using carbide set screws!!!!     Lol!!!!!!!

[RunsOnAir]

I haven't heard from P.A for my pre-ordered Avenger, expected to be shipped before 9/22 as per their website, but it's getting close.
I am hoping there will be enough clearance to add a thin square of powder coated aluminum or zinc inside the band to spread some of  the pressure at the impact point and avoid the divots.
If clearance is an issue, I'll see if I can thin the wall of the band in that area and add a bent square.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that thinning the band by 1/32 in places would be jeopardizing the gun's structurally integrity.
Otherwise, using plastic screws as previously offered might work. I'm just used to overbuild (not over-engineer, that would be too smart) and that solution doesn't seem overkill enough to be my first choice.

EDIT:  Can someone share what the diameters of the .22 shroud and top air tube are?

[avator]

I get the concerns about safety.
So any of you guys that "dink" a divot in the finish of your guns during normal use of the gun over the years give me a holler.... I'll make you an offer on that dangerous gun.... 
I may be wrong but I doubt if any of those divots are deeper than the threads cut into the tubes.

[FuzzyGrub]

I thought they had Titanium tubes? Looks like alloy to me

It looked like that to me, as well.  Stephen commented on how light they were.

[FuzzyGrub]

If it is just the finish that is getting disturbed, that is just cosmetic.  There are plenty of crosman guns, prod, 1720T, Fortitude that run set-screws to the air tube.  The tubes are steel, and no damage to them.

If the material is getting damaged or eroded by the set-screw, which is suggested by "divots", might be a concern over time, especially if it requires continued tightening to maintain accuracy. 

[FuzzyGrub]

I'm sure that Air Venturi is perfectly aware of the divot issues already !!!  If not then they're not very savy to their imported stuff

Accurate, and already working on a solution.  Sadly these things take some time to implement.  For what it's worth, the guns have been pressure tested to over 7500 PSI (yes, with tubes with "divots" in them) with no issues.

No expert in this area, but think you would want to test to 9000psi for a minimum 2:1 safety margin.

[pat585]

I would like to know what material the cylinder is actually made out of? Nova Vista never advertised their cylinders as being titanium that i could find anywhere. I wonder if it wasn't just a rumor that started with the Liberty & never got verified?

  https://mrtitanium.info/2008/03/17/how-to-tell-if-a-piece-of-metal-is-really-titanium/

[Tpatner412]

I'm sure that Air Venturi is perfectly aware of the divot issues already !!!  If not then they're not very savy to their imported stuff

Accurate, and already working on a solution.  Sadly these things take some time to implement.  For what it's worth, the guns have been pressure tested to over 7500 PSI (yes, with tubes with "divots" in them) with no issues.

No expert in this area, but think you would want to test to 9000psi for a minimum 2:1 safety margin.

In most cases, actually 3:1 when testing for something like burst pressure.  That is done at the factory.  I don't recall what pressure they test to exactly, but it's up there.  The 7500 PSI test (roughly 5/3 working pressure, and standard practice for CF tanks as an example) was done here.  My apologies for not clarifying that. 

I would like to know what material the cylinder is actually made out of? Nova Vista never advertised their cylinders as being titanium that i could find anywhere. I wonder if it wasn't just a rumor that started with the Liberty & never got verified?

  https://mrtitanium.info/2008/03/17/how-to-tell-if-a-piece-of-metal-is-really-titanium/

I would like to know that as well. I know that was the common thought for the Liberty, but I am not sure if that is accurate.  Have one somewhere but have never investigated that. At least for the avenger, we have never advertised them as being Ti.  They are aluminum.  Wall thickness of the cylinders is between 2.5 and 3mm (my good calipers are at the office).  And the "divots" on the gun I'm currently staring at are just deep enough to remove the surface finish and expose the raw material. 

[pat585]

Tyler- Thank's for clarifying that up. When the Liberty came out with it's 300 bar fill i think people just presumed the cylinder must be titanium? Funny how Nova Vista's website doesn't even show the Avenger listed? Some companies are so lax about keeping there sites updated.

[Tpatner412]

Tyler- Thank's for clarifying that up. When the Liberty came out with it's 300 bar fill i think people just presumed the cylinder must be titanium? Funny how Nova Vista's website doesn't even show the Avenger listed? Some companies are so lax about keeping there sites updated.

To be fair, they don’t show any of the guns they OEM, only the guns they sell under their own brand name. That’s common practice.

They do sell the Avenger and a couple other variations of it into other markets like South America under their own name, I’d at least think that would be on their site. Then again, with all of the different guns they’re making, they may not have time to update the website 😂😂😂

[moorepower]

To me they look like scuffs. While they may look ugly, they don't look deep enough to cause any integrity issues. Possibly as SS shim behind the band would be a good idea.

[Antwuan Maxx]

Tyler- Thank's for clarifying that up. When the Liberty came out with it's 300 bar fill i think people just presumed the cylinder must be titanium? Funny how Nova Vista's website doesn't even show the Avenger listed? Some companies are so lax about keeping there sites updated.

To be fair, they don’t show any of the guns they OEM, only the guns they sell under their own brand name. That’s common practice.

They do sell the Avenger and a couple other variations of it into other markets like South America under their own name, I’d at least think that would be on their site. Then again, with all of the different guns they’re making, they may not have time to update the website 😂😂😂

Hey Tyler, is there anywhere we can watch that discussion on the Avenger you did with Steve Scialli a while back?

I recall someone asking Steve about an Avenger in a bullpup form and he mentioned it was discussed during your Instagram session. 

[fv22]

Tell you what. For any of you that are so worried about the "divots" that barely scratch the surface please just send them to me. I will pay shipping and dispose of them properly!

[T3PRanch]

Although Tyler has confirmed that the Avenger tube is Aluminum .... Titanium is EASY to spot. Just try to anodize a small spot on bare metal. You don't even need TSP as in the instructions from MrTitanium link below.


Hook 4 - 9V batteries in a series. Clip the negative lead to the item to be anodized. Clip the positive lead to a piece of cloth or paper towel and wet it with Coca Cola.
Lightly drag the wet cloth along the bare titanium and you should see a color change to a nice gold to deep purple color. No color change and it is NOT Titanium.


I am really surprised that a manufacturer has not colored their titanium tube on a gun by this process as it is dead simple unlike anodizing aluminum.



http://mrtitanium.com/anodizing.html

[RunsOnAir]

I get the concerns about safety.
So any of you guys that "dink" a divot in the finish of your guns during normal use of the gun over the years give me a holler.... I'll make you an offer on that dangerous gun.... 
I may be wrong but I doubt if any of those divots are deeper than the threads cut into the tubes.

Avator, it can also be because some of us want to keep their toys without visual defect.  You know, the borderline OCD kind of stuff... 
Yes, even the $300 ones.
I'm already looking into fixing small dings on the front end of an air pistol.