Chinese High Side Filter Dryer Hack

[Loren]

Here is my set up right now.  The vertical filter has two to the bronze wool pads in it, which takes up about 6 inches of the filter, and then the balance of the space is activated charcoal.  The horzontial filter is filled with the molecular sieve material.  I do get water out of the vertical filter drain valve so that is working as planned. 


Bleed/Drain Valve

[Kmaz]

Anyone consider trying to isolate the gold filter so when you bleed the system you don't lose the air pressure that's already in it?
I'm thinking it waste so much time filling multiple guns and tanks when you need to repressurize the entire filter.

I'm thinking about installing ball valves on both sides of the gold filter. that way I can bleed the gun and bleed the compressor separately.

Anyone have ideas on a good source for ball valves, and additional bleeders?

No need to put a ball valve before filter just hook line to filter by way of a one way paintball fill nipple. Go to napa and get a 1/8"male to 1/8"female adapter. Screw the adapter into filter using tape and a dowdy washer. Screw the the paintball nipple into the adapter but first make sure the check valve part is bigger than the seat area inside the adapter. If not , put an appropriate sized washer inside. bleed at compressor as usual and filter stays charged. I installed valve to isolate then bleed port to relieve pressure to gun or tank.
DISCLAIMER.. 1/8"npt threads worked great on my filter housing. Does not mean it will work on yours.😁
Kris

[Kmaz]

Here is my set up right now.  The vertical filter has two to the bronze wool pads in it, which takes up about 6 inches of the filter, and then the balance of the space is activated charcoal.  The horzontial filter is filled with the molecular sieve material.  I do get water out of the vertical filter drain valve so that is working as planned. 


Bleed/Drain Valve

Don't you want your air to enter your first filter at the top? Why would you want to collect condensation on the bottom only to continue to blow moist air through the system? Maybe I'm missing something, if so , sorry.
Kris

[Taso1000]

Kris,

You need to keep liquid water from touching the molecular sieve or this will happen:



It will release a lot of heat and may lead to a sudden over pressure condition as the compressed air is heated.

Traps and bleeds at low points are very good practices to remove condensation.

Taso

[Kmaz]

Kris,

You need to keep liquid water from touching the molecular sieve or this will happen:



It will release a lot of heat and may lead to a sudden over pressure condition as the compressed air is heated.

Traps and bleeds at low points are very good practices to remove condensation.

Taso

I guess that makes sense... I like the bleed there, just feel like the majority don't have any bleed. I'm not really concerned the amount of water we're introducing to the sieve is going to create an overheated condition. Very interesting...thanks
Great... now I have to rethink my whole setup!😮😁
Kris

[Loren]

Here is my set up right now.  The vertical filter has two of the bronze wool pads in it, which takes up about 6 inches of the filter ***in lower half of filter***, and then the balance of the space is activated charcoal.  The horizontal filter is filled with the molecular sieve material.  I do get water out of the vertical filter drain valve so that is working as planned. 


Don't you want your air to enter your first filter at the top? Why would you want to collect condensation on the bottom only to continue to blow moist air through the system? Maybe I'm missing something, if so , sorry.
Kris
[/quote]

Gravity is working for me to keep the water in the bottom of the filter and at the bleed valve.

[Taso1000]

I built a similar configuration for my Shoebox outlet.  I am going to remote connect the trap and alpha filter because the weight is twisting the fitting in the vertical aluminum block.

Taso

[Loren]

I would put the visual moisture indicator on the output side of the filter, so you are monitoring the air coming out of the filter and not what is going into it.   

[Taso1000]

I would put the visual moisture indicator on the output side of the filter, so you are monitoring the air coming out of the filter and not what is going into it.   

Loren,

That's the plan eventually.  First, I want to see how effective my low side water removal system is.  I'm hoping it is beneficial for all the money and time I invested.  Or I will find it is not and let everyone know not to waste their time.

Molecular sieve has very little capacity.  I was hoping to remove more than 99% of moisture with my low pressure filtration system. 

Taso

[Gertrude]

After watching that first video on the Molecular Sieve reaction with water, I also found this.

 


go onto YouTube and search Zeolites, and you'll quickly find more than you can imagine.

[toku58]

No need to put a ball valve before filter just hook line to filter by way of a one way paintball fill nipple. Go to napa and get a 1/8"male to 1/8"female adapter. Screw the adapter into filter using tape and a dowdy washer. Screw the the paintball nipple into the adapter but first make sure the check valve part is bigger than the seat area inside the adapter. If not , put an appropriate sized washer inside. bleed at compressor as usual and filter stays charged. I installed valve to isolate then bleed port to relieve pressure to gun or tank.
DISCLAIMER.. 1/8"npt threads worked great on my filter housing. Does not mean it will work on yours.😁
Kris

Great idea! Although I would still need a ball valve and bleeder on the gun side. But thanks for the different point of view!!

[Talldog]

I would put the visual moisture indicator on the output side of the filter, so you are monitoring the air coming out of the filter and not what is going into it.   

Loren,

That's the plan eventually.  First, I want to see how effective my low side water removal system is.  I'm hoping it is beneficial for all the money and time I invested.  Or I will find it is not and let everyone know not to waste their time.

Molecular sieve has very little capacity.  I was hoping to remove more than 99% of moisture with my low pressure filtration system.

Taso

I don't believe a low pressure filter will do that. The way high pressure compressors work is to remove 99.5% of moisture before it gets to the final high side filter. They do this by expelling the water after the 1st stage. You need at least 1400 psi and a separator at the 1st stage to do this. Inline filters installed before any compression do not really do much, even at 100psi or so. High side filters should not be seeing any water to speak of. Molecular sieve is only there to take out the last .3% of water vapour. It will become useless after one use or so if the compressor is not designed to trap water before getting to the final MS filter.

[Taso1000]

Ron,

If you have time I'd really appreciate if you could take a look at my Shoebox thread and give some suggestions and input here and over there. 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=120744.0

My plan was to use membrane drier to bring the RH level to -20 C°.  But the more I have learned from this forum I have added a trap, pmv and Alpha filter to reduce moisture.

I want to share with the forum on how effective or not my ideas were.

Thanks,

Taso

[Talldog]

Ron,

If you have time I'd really appreciate if you could take a look at my Shoebox thread and give some suggestions and input here and over there. 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=120744.0

My plan was to use membrane drier to bring the RH level to -20 C°.  But the more I have learned from this forum I have added a trap, pmv and Alpha filter to reduce moisture.

I want to share with the forum on how effective or not my ideas were.

Thanks,

Taso

I'm far from an expert on compressors but did research on what works, and more importantly, what does not work. There is a reason that even the least expensive dive compressors cost $4,000 or more. But as airgun users we may be able to get by with something less exotic. For example, I used to hand pump PCP's and never saw any corrosion damage inside the gun's air tubes even though some are adamant that we are pumping water into the guns. Maybe ... but for whatever reason I so no detrimental effects from such. Maybe it is expelled upon firing .. don't know. But to understand how high pressure water filtration should be designed try scubaengineer.com. They have an excellent paper on filter system design. Reading this over a few times gives a clear understanding of how water filtration is achieved and the end purpose of the so-called high side filter.

[gendoc]

interesting !!!

[Taso1000]

Ron,

Thank you.  I am very new to hpa so I am absorbing information like a sponge.  Pun intended!     I am not an expert but I like to toss ideas around, share information and learn.

I understand breathing air requirements are more stringent than the non breathing high pressure air we are trying to make.  So we, pcp enthusiasts, need to be concerned about moisture, combustible oils and to a much lesser extent increasing the percentage of oxygen by removing other non critical gasses as a by product of using molecular sieve.

I had been trying to find the recommended humidity point that corrosion occurs.  But I have learned that that point is moot because the moisture accumulates over time if it's not removed.  So moisture will collect in our air cylinders and gun reservoirs.  I guess if you take your guns apart regularly and remove the accumulated moisture you would be ok.  But we know no one will do that every time they are done shooting their rifles.

I did come to the realization, late I should add ,  as to what compression and a pmv does.  So I added a pmv and a trap at the lowest point in my tubing for condensed water to accumulate and be removed since my Shoebox had none of this tech.

The one thing I have noticed is people saying "I don't see any water coming out of my compressor so I have nothing to worry about."  What they don't realize is that their output air is very close if not at 100% relative humidity.  This water vapor will condense out when it cools.

Another concern that I have is that I'd like to see the gold filter and its paraphernalia pressure tested to make sure it is safe.  I haven't gotten very far with that. 

Thanks,

Taso

[Talldog]

Ron,

Thank you.  I am very new to hpa so I am absorbing information like a sponge.  Pun intended!     I am not an expert but I like to toss ideas around, share information and learn.

I understand breathing air requirements are more stringent than the non breathing high pressure air we are trying to make.  So we, pcp enthusiasts, need to be concerned about moisture, combustible oils and to a much lesser extent increasing the percentage of oxygen by removing other non critical gasses as a by product of using molecular sieve.

I had been trying to find the recommended humidity point that corrosion occurs.  But I have learned that that point is moot because the moisture accumulates over time if it's not removed.  So moisture will collect in our air cylinders and gun reservoirs.  I guess if you take your guns apart regularly and remove the accumulated moisture you would be ok.  But we know no one will do that every time they are done shooting their rifles.

I did come to the realization, late I should add ,  as to what compression and a pmv does.  So I added a pmv and a trap at the lowest point in my tubing for condensed water to accumulate and be removed since my Shoebox had none of this tech.

The one thing I have noticed is people saying "I don't see any water coming out of my compressor so I have nothing to worry about."  What they don't realize is that their output air is very close if not at 100% relative humidity.  This water vapor will condense out when it cools.

Another concern that I have is that I'd like to see the gold filter and its paraphernalia pressure tested to make sure it is safe.  I haven't gotten very far with that. 

Thanks,

Taso

Sort of a bit off topic but divers need dry air mainly to keep their equipment in shape. There is always the chance of dive regulators freezing up at depth from water vapour .. not good. Tank corrosion is a secondary concern, but not the first priority based on the fact that tanks are quickly pressured and then used up. In reality, dry air is actually a detriment to breathing quality air as it quickly dehydrates divers. One of the reasons that they are to make sure that they are fully hydrated before a dive .. e.g., no drinking the day before.

Obviously, airgunners have slightly different prerequisites.

[smellyjawa]

Here is my set up right now.  The vertical filter has two to the bronze wool pads in it, which takes up about 6 inches of the filter, and then the balance of the space is activated charcoal.  The horzontial filter is filled with the molecular sieve material.  I do get water out of the vertical filter drain valve so that is working as planned. 


Bleed/Drain Valve

Hey Loren, where did you get all the fittings for the drain valve?

[Loren]

Hey Loren, where did you get all the fittings for the drain valve?

Kris, Here are my sources for the parts to make up the bleeder assembly.

Piecing it together with a Street Tee fitting with a male and female foster fittings and the bleed valve.  Using 1/8" NPT Tee and foster fittings.

https://www.nuvair.com/store/category/parts-accessories/fittings/npt/tee-cross/male-street-tee.html

https://www.nuvair.com/store/category/parts-accessories/fittings/npt/straight/male-npt-x-female-npt-reducing-adapter.html

https://www.nuvair.com/store/category/parts-accessories/valves-regulators/bleed-valves/1-4-mnpt-bleed-valves-6000-psi-max.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAINTBALL-GUN-HOSE-CO2-REMOTE-QUICK-DISCONNECT-1-8-NPT-STAINLESS-STEEL-SS/282769672017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[smellyjawa]

Loren, thanks a bunch for all that info! I'm hoping to copy your setup