GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: K.O. on September 18, 2015, 08:24:31 AM
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any accuracy reports... hammer forged barrel... :D
http://bsaguns.co.uk/air-rifles/pcp-airguns/Buccaneer-SE.aspx (http://bsaguns.co.uk/air-rifles/pcp-airguns/Buccaneer-SE.aspx)
This will probably test a few other barrels...after a while...
edited title*
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any accuracy reports... hammer forged barrel... :D
http://bsaguns.co.uk/air-rifles/pcp-airguns/Buccaneer-SE.aspx (http://bsaguns.co.uk/air-rifles/pcp-airguns/Buccaneer-SE.aspx)
This will probably test a few other barrels...after a while...
I think it's exactly like the coyote, other then the stock. I was really hard pressed to not press the add to cart button on Amazon last night. My next rifle will be a BSA or a Daystate and I did not want to be disappointed. I've been researching them a bit and those with "accuracy" issue tend to put the blame on the barrel band. The other BSA's don't use bands but apparently because the Buc and Coyote use that Gasmo trigger they also use a different breech that "needs" the band. Good luck, let up know how it works out.
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It's just a Coyote in a nicer stock with BSA stamped on the breech.
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It's just a Coyote in a nicer stock with BSA stamped on the breech.
I was misled by the Amazon picture! It doesn't show a barrel band and the Coyote pic has one. I tried to cancel but it was too late. May have to return it....
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May very well not.
BSA barrels love being free floated for accuracy. Before you send it back you should at least see how well it shoots
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May very well not.
BSA barrels love being free floated for accuracy. Before you send it back you should at least see how well it shoots
The picture of the free floater barrel is why I jumped on this deal, but turns out that the Buccaneer has a band just like Coyote. Maybe I'll see how everyone else likes their's before I open up mine. :D
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well I am just a touch miffed...
I am used to Crosman they keep twist rate proprietary but have good info on all models, EVP/Manual, nothing that I can find for the Buc and if you press the link at the Yote's page it gives the sad O.M. of the Dyna Max not the yote manual...
I find it interesting that the Yote has Made in E.U. when if it is the same gun as the Buc then it is made in England...
I am an info junky so want more specifics on the barrel like what twist are they using... what style of rifling, strait bore or tapered , non choked or choked (and how much) and so on
guess I will look for info on the all of current BSA PCP line and see what I find...
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May very well not.
BSA barrels love being free floated for accuracy. Before you send it back you should at least see how well it shoots
No personal experience om this but our local gunsmith who worked on one said that it would work without the barrel band.
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Here is the barrel spiel it say that like they have been for a good while tapered bore /groove and I know some of the older barrels had a choke.
So I do not think the Buc's barrel would be a departure from the norm..
http://bsaguns.co.uk/about/production.aspx (http://bsaguns.co.uk/about/production.aspx)
I have read that the twist on the Meteor is 1:19 but that is a lower fps springer...
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Doubt it's any different from other BSA barrels (good barrels). Visually, like the BSA stock a good bit more than the Gamo (not having handled them side by side, visual is all I have to go on). Barrel band doesn't seem to be an issue, it's in a location that isn't critical and doesn't really hog-tie the barrl to the tube (acts more like a bump-stop), but it it irritates you it does seem like it would come off without any real problem.
So it cost about $100 more than the Gamo. Like the BSA stock better, and for at least some shooters, not having the Gamo stamp might be worth the increase alone.
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;DJust had to sneak that little jibe in there didnt ya
But in all seriousness. Gamo pcp effortcls through the years have consistently yielded less than stellar results.
Maybe the idea is to market the Spanish gun as England made as a test to see where their reputation is. Maybe its just rebranded overstock. Who knows.
Lets all just hope this one brings a performance better than the usual Gamo pcp standard and doesnt make the BSA track record take a blemish.
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Doubt it's any different from other BSA barrels (good barrels). Visually, like the BSA stock a good bit more than the Gamo (not having handled them side by side, visual is all I have to go on). Barrel band doesn't seem to be an issue, it's in a location that isn't critical and doesn't really hog-tie the barrl to the tube (acts more like a bump-stop), but it it irritates you it does seem like it would come off without any real problem.
So it cost about $100 more than the Gamo. Like the BSA stock better, and for at least some shooters, not having the Gamo stamp might be worth the increase alone.
Actually, with the current sale price on Amazon the BSA is over $100 LESS than the Gamo. That's one reason I found the deal to be irresistible. This is probably a pricing anomaly though.
The Scorpion 1200 SE was only $100 more (last night anyway) than the Buccaneer... Shrouded and free floated barrel with BSA trigger, but plastic stocked. I like the wood better but can live with plastic. Can't live with loud, so will likely need aftermarket quieter for the Buccaneer. Cost ends up being a toss up.
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Yes, I did have to sneak that in there. Gamo has made, and is making, some good stuff under their logo, but the "other" stuff tends to detract from the name.
Guess the eaiest thing to do it find the time to shoot the BSA for a day or two as soon as it gets there. Carefully save all the packaging and be very careful not to ding it up/bugger a screw/or scrape it with ill fitting scope mounts. If at the end of a couple of days it's not a "winner", box it up, send it back, and get store credit towards what you do want.
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well I found the factory tour and heard 1:19 twist mentioned I think I read that they are all that twist regardless of caliber..?
and I seem to remember 12 lands and grooves for the .22s at least..?
get to see an few bits of plumbing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhm1HnJkDfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhm1HnJkDfQ)
Since there is not much out there about them I guess they needed to get some out.. ;) ::) I mean the barrel & running off 3300 for just a bit more than a disco mine was 280 after TAX... but had a 30 dollar gift card..
at the price I trust it outshines the disco by a good bit..
I think I need an adapter for my Benji pump...
***linky removed***
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I think I need an adapter for my Benji pump...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhm1HnJkDfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhm1HnJkDfQ)
Good point Kirby! I didn't think about that. Post a link if you locate the right one please.
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;DJust had to sneak that little jibe in there didnt ya
But in all seriousness. Gamo pcp effortcls through the years have consistently yielded less than stellar results.
Maybe the idea is to market the Spanish gun as England made as a test to see where their reputation is. Maybe its just rebranded overstock. Who knows.
Lets all just hope this one brings a performance better than the usual Gamo pcp standard and doesnt make the BSA track record take a blemish.
Are you talking about the Coyote I do not know where it is made...
But the Buc is made at the home of BSA...
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The .177 Bucaneer is currently $315 on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VF37PLS/ref=pd_aw_sbs_200_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=013X67MFCPD6JVYPWR0T&th=1&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VF37PLS/ref=pd_aw_sbs_200_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=013X67MFCPD6JVYPWR0T&th=1&psc=1)
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Link remove above was supposed to be to this 16$ shipped adapter...
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-male-quick-disconnect-1-8-bspp-female-threads-steel-rated?a=3550 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-male-quick-disconnect-1-8-bspp-female-threads-steel-rated?a=3550)
I think it is the right one?
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Some specs I found on the Buccaneer, I can get it for $750 Canadian, no deals up here.
.22 calibre (5.5mm)
30+ ft/lbs - 1000 ft/sec
10-shot magnetic rotary magazine
Bolt-action
Solid ambidextrous beech stock
11mm scope rail
Two-stage adjustable trigger
BSA hammer-forged rifled steel barrel
Built-in manometer (air pressure gauge)
Self-regulated valve
232 bar (3,365 psi)
153cc air reservoir capacity
Specifications:
Weight: 7.7 lb
Overall Length: 39”
Barrel Length: 18.5"
Made in UK
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Congrats on the purchase. I too, was following it on amazon yesterday and today. It got as low as $281, tempting but I resisted on pushing the buy button.. Maybe, because I just picked up a german air pistol and a 22lr just last week.
enjoy
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But in all seriousness. Gamo pcp effortcls through the years have consistently yielded less than stellar results.
Maybe the idea is to market the Spanish gun as England made as a test to see where their reputation is. Maybe its just rebranded overstock. Who knows.
Huh? I thing Dynamax was pretty close to stellar for 399$ that they were selling. It was just a rebadged BSA Sportsman HV with synthetic stock.
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Well rkr I had a Gamo Dynamax, got it about 6 months after they came out. And I like many others found it to be wantibg in more than a few aspects. I had issues with the trigger, just not smooth or as agjustable as I'd like. Then there was the accuracy issue, that gun would shotgun pattern pellet no matter what I tried. And I tried everything, from different weights and shapes and brands of pellets, to muzzle weights to polishing the bore. Nothing worked. I sold it at a steep loss after only 5 weeks. For a gun I would own long term thats nowhere near acceptable to me.
Maybe you won the lottery on yours, but I & others I know took a hit with the Dynamax. And that first attempt at a pcp from gamo was enough to teach me to at least wait till they got it right before I got another pcp from them. In my opinion its a fine gun for someone that has the time & desire to dig deep into the guts of a gun from the muzzle backwards to get it to perform. And thats typical of most starter pcp's. Its just that for the amount of time & effort I put into it with no positive results, and that I have heard and seen similar from other Dynamax owners, just lead persons to come to the conclusion that the Dynamax generally wasn't a very good unit to begin with.
If you think its a pretty stellar gun for the price thats all well & good. But I personally will not be purchasing another Dynamax within this lifetime.
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Hi,
Great rifle and great accuracy.
I own the 0.22 model with 30 foot-pound power plant.
no regulator is required for it but you have to get accustomed to Gamo's CAT trigger.
I have bought GRT-4g trigger but did't have the time to install it on the rifle.
here are my shot strings:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/sotkz4.jpg)
(pellets: Crosman premiers)
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Congrats on the purchase. I too, was following it on amazon yesterday and today. It got as low as $281, tempting but I resisted on pushing the buy button.. Maybe, because I just picked up a german air pistol and a 22lr just last week.
enjoy
I feel pretty happy about it... I am thinking I hit Mrod weight at a near disco price... Mrod is up on Trigger and shroud... but shot count and fpe?
Heck for those with the $ I think the BSA name on the breech might get it into the Bowkett spa..? If you so chose... But then he might not blueprint the Buccaneers.. ::)..?
I just realized if I put the Beretta barrel on it, then it would be a Buccaneer Hakim( pirate governor ;)) of Spanish, Italian and Welsh descent just like my grandmother... (She was a very good shot)
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Hi,
Great rifle and great accuracy.
I own the 0.22 model with 30 foot-pound power plant.
no regulator is required for it but you have to get accustomed to Gamo's CAT trigger.
I have bought GRT-4g trigger but did't have the time to install it on the rifle.
here are my shot strings:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/sotkz4.jpg)
(pellets: Crosman premiers)
Thanks for the response I wonder if the .22, .177 and .25 have basically the same power plant?
what adjustments does it have to tune fpe?
I can not find a download of the manual so just have to wait...
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I bet you have to change striker spring and transfer port to adjust fpe... I wonder if a power adjuster mod is possible... any links to a BSA or Gammo valve..?
I wonder just how much fpe the design has in it with a 25.75" .22lr barrel... Could I get a magazine worth of 50-60 fpe with 30 grain boolits?
even with +7.25" added barrel length and 3300 psi the tank, might be to small for that..?
I have some BSA learning to do... I wonder if the valve is a one off or borrowed from another model... Did John and BSA part ways?
off to the search
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Did find this about the Yotes fill valve...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8c7AfZL3ko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8c7AfZL3ko)
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Well rkr I had a Gamo Dynamax, got it about 6 months after they came out. And I like many others found it to be wantibg in more than a few aspects. I had issues with the trigger, just not smooth or as agjustable as I'd like. Then there was the accuracy issue, that gun would shotgun pattern pellet no matter what I tried. And I tried everything, from different weights and shapes and brands of pellets, to muzzle weights to polishing the bore. Nothing worked. I sold it at a steep loss after only 5 weeks. For a gun I would own long term thats nowhere near acceptable to me.
Maybe you won the lottery on yours, but I & others I know took a hit with the Dynamax. And that first attempt at a pcp from gamo was enough to teach me to at least wait till they got it right before I got another pcp from them. In my opinion its a fine gun for someone that has the time & desire to dig deep into the guts of a gun from the muzzle backwards to get it to perform. And thats typical of most starter pcp's. Its just that for the amount of time & effort I put into it with no positive results, and that I have heard and seen similar from other Dynamax owners, just lead persons to come to the conclusion that the Dynamax generally wasn't a very good unit to begin with.
If you think its a pretty stellar gun for the price thats all well & good. But I personally will not be purchasing another Dynamax within this lifetime.
Hmm, my 100M bench rest gun is still Dynamax apart from breech and barrel (.25 conversion) and it was the best pellet gun this year. IMO there's nothing wrong with Dynamax trigger unit. I've only heard good things about the accuracy of Dynamaxes so far, your's seem to be the first bad apple.
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I bet you have to change striker spring and transfer port to adjust fpe... I wonder if a power adjuster mod is possible... any links to a BSA or Gammo valve..?
I wonder just how much fpe the design has in it with a 25.75" .22lr barrel... Could I get a magazine worth of 50-60 fpe with 30 grain boolits?
even with +7.25" added barrel length and 3300 psi the tank, might be to small for that..?
I have some BSA learning to do... I wonder if the valve is a one off or borrowed from another model... Did John and BSA part ways?
off to the search
What's your source for .22lr bullets? I've been wondering about building a BR gun using .22lr or .224 barrel but getting the ammo seems to be a bit problematic.
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well I am hoping that I can size the NAA cap and ball 30 grainers and if I have to carve down the Lee 225-55-rf and the Bator special order by the same number
http://northamericanarms.com/accessories/cb-accessories/cb-parts.html (http://northamericanarms.com/accessories/cb-accessories/cb-parts.html)
the barrel is rather unique also it is a 1950s Beretta I think it might even be hammer forged?
I need better tools to measure but heck its choked enough to send CPHP out...
Can you imagine carving a big Sniper magnum out of the Bator to handle the choke...
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I am just about finished with hillbilly re-profiling a Marlin 883N .22mag barrel to a straight ~9/16 and then .5" for the Breech... As an alternate barrel for my .25 mrod...
practiced on a worn out Marlin model 60 barrel first...
Did some push thru work to see what I had to work with...
Trying to see if I can pull off a combo Boolit/pellet shooter...
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that is long term stuff... like finding out how a daisy 1: 15 .177 barrel does with pile drivers beast and snipers...
Right now I enjoy the Mrod out of the box 9 50fpe within 1% es shots... have not touched a thing...
I will enjoy the Buc stock for a good while also... but am getting set up for casting... Worked as a mold/core maker on the sand side of an aluminum Foundry for a year so hopefully that helps me with casting lead n tin...
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hmm...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1283613640/The+subject+of+the+John+Bowkett+Hammer+Debounce+Device+came+up+on+the+Chinese+page--- (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1283613640/The+subject+of+the+John+Bowkett+Hammer+Debounce+Device+came+up+on+the+Chinese+page---)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0Y-F03z0A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0Y-F03z0A) bet the Buc is the same..?
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I'm interested in this rifle but wondered one, if you can convert the caliber easily and two, if you can even buy a moderator for it legally in the US.
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That hdd was used in super ten, not in today's pcps.
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well it looks like the hammer springs are interchangeable... no specs given tho...
Part-No.-16-6615
BSA Hammer Spring High Power
fits Hornet, Scorpion & R-10
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4654/BSA-Hammer-Spring-HP-Part-No.-16-6615/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4654/BSA-Hammer-Spring-HP-Part-No.-16-6615/)
this one looks to be the one used @ 16joules
BSA Hammer Spring .177-.22
Part-No.-16-6605
Fits Ultra, Ultra SE, Hornet Single, Multi Shot & Scorpion SE
Also fits R10 & Dynamax
Also fits: Buccaneer (in all calibres from 16j - FAC) & Gamo Coyote & BSA Dynamax
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4297/BSA-Hammer-Spring-.177-.22-Part-No.-16-6605/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4297/BSA-Hammer-Spring-.177-.22-Part-No.-16-6605/)
then this one and it just says
BSA Hammer Spring
Fits BSA Scorpion & R-10
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4589/BSA-Hammer-Spring-Part-No.-16-6712/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4589/BSA-Hammer-Spring-Part-No.-16-6712/)
Part-No.-16-6712
Watching the exploded view a bit more closely and it looks that there is an air restrictor in the muzzle end of the valve body...
as for transfer port well hope they just used what they already had
here is the Ultra MS .177
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4620/BSA-Ultra-MSTransfer-Port-.177-Part-No.-16-6903/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4620/BSA-Ultra-MSTransfer-Port-.177-Part-No.-16-6903/)
and for the .22-.25
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/11339/Scorpion-SE-Transfer-Port-.22-Part-No.-16-7819/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/11339/Scorpion-SE-Transfer-Port-.22-Part-No.-16-7819/)
and the .157"/4mm t-port for the R-10
looks the same but for the larger I.D.
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4547/BSA-Transfer-Port-R-10-Part-No.-16-7445/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4547/BSA-Transfer-Port-R-10-Part-No.-16-7445/)
so It does look like once the warranty is gone It might not be to hard to mod for more fpe...
might not be to hard to add a power adjusting rear cap...
It would be nice if BSA would sell you a .22 or 25 barrel and sundries to switch between calibers as long as you had bought the .177 or .22 or .25
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Watching the exploded view a bit more closely and it looks that there is an air restrictor in the muzzle end of the valve body...
as for transfer port well hope they just used what they already had
here is the Ultra MS .177
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4620/BSA-Ultra-MSTransfer-Port-.177-Part-No.-16-6903/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4620/BSA-Ultra-MSTransfer-Port-.177-Part-No.-16-6903/)
and for the .22-.25
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/11339/Scorpion-SE-Transfer-Port-.22-Part-No.-16-7819/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/11339/Scorpion-SE-Transfer-Port-.22-Part-No.-16-7819/)
and the .157"/4mm t-port for the R-10
looks the same but for the larger I.D.
http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4547/BSA-Transfer-Port-R-10-Part-No.-16-7445/ (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/4547/BSA-Transfer-Port-R-10-Part-No.-16-7445/)
so It does look like once the warranty is gone It might not be to hard to mod for more fpe...
might not be to hard to add a power adjusting rear cap...
It would be nice if BSA would sell you a .22 or 25 barrel and sundries to switch between calibers as long as you had bought the .177 or .22 or .25
FAC guns in .22 and .25 use 4mm transfer port typically. That's also the diameter of barrel port in those calibers while .177 is 3mm I believe.
You can piece together caliber conversion kits for "real" BSA PCPs from Knibbs offering, I've done it a couple of times. As Buccaneer/Coyote parts become available you should be able to do that for those guns as well.
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By real I guess you mean those produced with "J.B." assistance ..?
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By real I guess you mean those produced with J.B. assistance ..?
Well yes although BSA did some development of their own after JB left (SE models). I was referring to those PCPs that are not equipped with Gamo trigger unit. Goldstar SE came out after Buccaneer so I hope the Gamo trigger will only appear in low end PCP models.
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ah, I understand
I like the Mrod trigger but once I get used to a trigger I am not all that picky... Heck once I got the feel for it I used my 2100s trigger like it was a 2 stage instead of a very long single... as long as it is smooth predictable and not really mushy I am happy... would not know what to do with a match grade trigger...
heck I think even a stock 13xx works pretty durn good once you get the spring right...
So unless it is truly horrible I think I will be able to adjust to it... we will see... I do understand the preference for a very good trigger tho.
Me I mainly worry about long term durability a smooth consistent shot cycle and of course the barrel... and have made Crosman barrels work very well with some work...
I think you could teach me quite a bit about the BSA PCPs and I do think that the Higher end BSA rifles are coming close to finely tuned art...
But to show a bit of high-end itis by labeling the more Budget conscious model not a "real" BSA well it is forgetting that a guy familiar with the Remington 512 he grew up with can outshoot the guy with his new Anschutz at times...
now getting into benchrest and FT type competition then well $$$ matter more but for the field I just want a good solid durable accurate rifle...
I will be surprised if the Buc is not a very accurate rifle... its just not a competition rifle... in the end the high end market is limited and having a high quality for the $ model is a good move if they do not sacrifice to much functionality in the wrong places to have that budget model...
Have you had a chance to shoot a Buc or Yote yet... I mean is it a truly unmanageable trigger or just not Match grade...
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It's not a match grade trigger. It is better than Gamo springers since the hammer pushes the sear much less than a spring piston. It can also be improved by CDT blade and polishing. The regular BSA PCP trigger becomes very close to match grade (I find no difference to my Anschutz/FWB triggers) when you do the polish, adjust and use lighter springs for it.
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I almost pulled the trigger on the scorpion .177, but I worry I won't be getting the most out of a PCP without at least a .22 caliber barrel. Seems that the velocity between .177 and .22 are so close that .22 would probably be better for longer distances. This will be my first PCP although I have a lot of experience with springers and co2 rifles. Good to see that it shouldn't be too hard to convert down the road if parts become available.
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In the end I am glad they came up with the Buc & Yote and I was able to snag the Buc for $280...
I just do not think that the nicer BSA offerings should be modded to the point that I want to mod the Buccaneer to... they should be sent to the J.B. spa and passed down in the family...
But with the Buc, I will have no guilty feelings about putting the 26" hakim barrel on it while modding for a short shot string and higher fpe...
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In the end I am glad they came up with the Buc & Yote and I was able to snag the Buc for $280...
I just do not think that the nicer BSA offerings should be modded to the point that I want to mod the Buccaneer to... they should be sent to the J.B. spa and passed down in the family...
But with the Buc, I will have no guilty feelings about putting the 26" hakim barrel on it while modding for a short shot string and higher fpe...
A bit like the Gamo Dynamax. Got mine for 200 euros in .22 and have modded the *(&^ out of it since. Short barrel, long barrel, bullpup conversion, regulated, longer air tube and it finally ended up as BSA Scorpion in .25 ;) For the money spent I could have just bought the Scorpion but it sure was fun and it ain't over yet.
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Got some time to look over the Buccaneer some more. Took action out of the stock to compare to Scorpion. Unfortunately stocks do not swap. Not just because of air gauge, but trigger group completely different. This was expected, but one can dream. Top end very similar to Scorpion. I like the Buccaneer wood stock MUCH better than the synthetic on the Scorpion. Buccaneer also handles a lot better. Scorpion is very front heavy- probably a combination of longer air tube, shroud, and synthetic stock.
Really dislike the thin plastic fill cover on the Buccaneer. Seems a bit fragile.
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It seems no one like the plastic cover.. ;)
The Scorp is back up to 700$ already... I think you have some good Karma and the ability to make decision doing you well...
I bet the heavy .177 like the JSB monsters do well... I have the feeling the Buc just might break the 20fpe mark with them... The Beast might be a bit heavy for the shorter barrel..?
It will be fun to find out how it does with all the different pellets...
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If I wanted less power, would this be the place to start ? See part circled in picture.
Looks like shortening that would result in a less preloaded hammer spring. Assuming the spring is actually compressed to start with, of course.
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In the long run I plan on replacing with a power adjuster setup to allow for variable preload... Something like the disco end cap/preload adjusters in this thread
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=82722.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=82722.0)
I actually want to be able to go from about 700-800 fps with 14.3 to as much as I can get(up to about 950fps) with 27 grain PDG bombs & destroyers and cast .224 up to about 30g-35g-40g... this would be thru a rather unique 26" 1950s Beretta Hakim .22lr Barrel...
If you go to 1:22 in the vid and grab a shot of the valve and post it here I would appreciate can not figure how to myself... what you will see is an air/power restrictor... in the muzzle end of the valve...
so between the restrictor and transfer port/porting size and a preload adjuster maybe...
I think this will be key in the hunt for 28 to 50-65 fpe in .224 ...
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I bet you have to change striker spring and transfer port to adjust fpe... I wonder if a power adjuster mod is possible... any links to a BSA or Gammo valve..?
I wonder just how much fpe the design has in it with a 25.75" .22lr barrel... Could I get a magazine worth of 50-60 fpe with 30 grain boolits?
even with +7.25" added barrel length and 3300 psi the tank, might be to small for that..?
I have some BSA learning to do... I wonder if the valve is a one off or borrowed from another model... Did John and BSA part ways?
off to the search
What's your source for .22lr bullets? I've been wondering about building a BR gun using .22lr or .224 barrel but getting the ammo seems to be a bit problematic.
well it looks like 10 cents a round( before whatever shipping is) but there are these 41.5 grain .224 RWS
http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/airgun-pellets-rws-5-7-mm-41-5-grain.html (http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/airgun-pellets-rws-5-7-mm-41-5-grain.html)
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In the end I am glad they came up with the Buc & Yote and I was able to snag the Buc for $280...
I just do not think that the nicer BSA offerings should be modded to the point that I want to mod the Buccaneer to... they should be sent to the J.B. spa and passed down in the family...
But with the Buc, I will have no guilty feelings about putting the 26" hakim barrel on it while modding for a short shot string and higher fpe...
A bit like the Gamo Dynamax. Got mine for 200 euros in .22 and have modded the *(&^ out of it since. Short barrel, long barrel, bullpup conversion, regulated, longer air tube and it finally ended up as BSA Scorpion in .25 ;) For the money spent I could have just bought the Scorpion but it sure was fun and it ain't over yet.
I have some very High hopes for the Beretta barrel as a combo Boolit/pellet barrel for it... If I remember right some of the high end .22lr (Anschutz n such) have a bit of choke... But honestly have not seen a .22lr choked as much as this one .218-.219 groove .212 land...
If it does as well as I hope it just might stay...
Partialy in honor of my maternal grandmother... Her father("a son of Madoc" (Mad dog)) was Welsh and my great Grandmother half Spanish and half Italian... so Welsh/Spanish/Italian just like the Buc would be with the Beretta barrel...
Also I could call it the K.O. Buccaneer Hakim 212 fireball... ;)
(K.O. = Knock out but also Kirby O. , Buccaneer = pirate, Hakim=ruler/governor/judge, 212 fireball= for the bore and a tribute to wildcatters...
But like I said I am going to enjoy it as a .177 for a good while first... With the BSA barrel I bet it even does well with the CPUM 10.3
and spits them about 950fps/20.6fpe stock...
I love both of the Daisy 953s I have (both were gifts, one was from vigilandy(THANKS again... ;D Morgan loves it)) but other than those I have been a Benji/Crosman guy exclusively for many 40+ years (for good reason in my mind)
I have only wanted to buy one other brand/model of air rifle and that was when the Titan Mohawk MP came out so I guess that there is a bit of symmetry to this purchase being from a company that was smart enough to hire its creator.. ;)
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If you go to 1:22 in the vid and grab a shot of the valve and post it here I would appreciate can not figure how to myself... what you will see is an air/power restrictor... in the muzzle end of the valve...
Here you go .
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Thank you,
in the vid I could not tell if it was two more holes or what I just made sure of, it is held in with a C-clip... so yep would need to have a few with different openings for differing power levels...
open for max power...
Have to do some thinking and studying to figure most efficient balance at a given power level...
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You're welcome.
good luck with your project.
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You're welcome.
good luck with your project.
Thanks it will be a while I need to finish the Marlin .22 WMR Barrel for the Marauder project first...
But that's the cool part they are very capable pellet shooters as is...
Hmm I bet the Mrod shroud system will close to fit right on... Hmmm and I think the barrel threads are the same as the Hatsan air stripper?
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I wonder if the new R-10 mk2 shroud will fit. I think my R-10 mk1 shroud will be too short. I have another hour and a half togo before I get home and finally able to open the package ups dropped off this morning. Can't wait too see how the buc compares to the R -10. Still wont be able to shoot it until tomorrow, dang.
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I may only get to look at mine for a few days while I wait for the adapter to Foster, the did not ship it till yesterday... I think I picked the right one...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M37FYA/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1/178-2084860-1498833?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0MCTEVS1SJ224R2A0K9E&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_i=B00F0NSJKU (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M37FYA/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1/178-2084860-1498833?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0MCTEVS1SJ224R2A0K9E&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_i=B00F0NSJKU)
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It seems no one like the plastic cover.. ;)
The Scorp is back up to 700$ already... I think you have some good Karma and the ability to make decision doing you well...
I bet the heavy .177 like the JSB monsters do well... I have the feeling the Buc just might break the 20fpe mark with them... The Beast might be a bit heavy for the shorter barrel..?
It will be fun to find out how it does with all the different pellets...
I'm not much a believer in Karma and in fact my wife considers me a pessimist.... On the other hand, I did give away some unused items from my collection recently. And wouldn't you know it, I've picked up some bargains that more than made up for the cost of the things I gave away.
If all goes well, I will mount a scope on the Scorpion tonight and put some pellets downrange tomorrow. I really did get lucky with that- the price went up pretty quick. I just need to decide what to do with the Buccaneer.
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Thank you,
in the vid I could not tell if it was two more holes or what I just made sure of, it is held in with a C-clip... so yep would need to have a few with different openings for differing power levels...
open for max power...
Have to do some thinking and studying to figure most efficient balance at a given power level...
It would be easier to adjust the power with transfer port and just have big enough opening in the valve housing. It seems that removing the breech is a three screw deal only.
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I wonder if the new R-10 mk2 shroud will fit. I think my R-10 mk1 shroud will be too short. I have another hour and a half togo before I get home and finally able to open the package ups dropped off this morning. Can't wait too see how the buc compares to the R -10. Still wont be able to shoot it until tomorrow, dang.
There's no point in using R10 shroud, it's not even backvented. I'd suggest asking Huub if his shrouds can be mounted.
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Thank you,
in the vid I could not tell if it was two more holes or what I just made sure of, it is held in with a C-clip... so yep would need to have a few with different openings for differing power levels...
open for max power...
Have to do some thinking and studying to figure most efficient balance at a given power level...
It would be easier to adjust the power with transfer port and just have big enough opening in the valve housing. It seems that removing the breech is a three screw deal only.
I agree... I think they did it that way for differing export fpe restrictions? or does it help with the contraction/shock of sudden psi loss..?
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I wonder if the new R-10 mk2 shroud will fit. I think my R-10 mk1 shroud will be too short. I have another hour and a half togo before I get home and finally able to open the package ups dropped off this morning. Can't wait too see how the buc compares to the R -10. Still wont be able to shoot it until tomorrow, dang.
There's no point in using R10 shroud, it's not even backvented. I'd suggest asking Huub if his shrouds can be mounted.
Mine has to have an American Made shroud even if I have to make it... then it will be a bit me continuing the family parallel thing
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Thank you,
in the vid I could not tell if it was two more holes or what I just made sure of, it is held in with a C-clip... so yep would need to have a few with different openings for differing power levels...
open for max power...
Have to do some thinking and studying to figure most efficient balance at a given power level...
It would be easier to adjust the power with transfer port and just have big enough opening in the valve housing. It seems that removing the breech is a three screw deal only.
I agree... I think they did it that way for differing export fpe restrictions? or does it help with the contraction/shock of sudden psi loss..?
It restrcicts the maximum power and flattens the power curve at higher pressure region. Not as accurate as hammer spring adjustment though.
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For anyone wanting to see how the buccaneer compares to the R-10. So far that trigger feels OK, much better than any of my break barrel triggers.
RKR what do you mean by back vented. I bought my R-10 used and it did not have baffles inside the shroud, instead I found what I now believe is some sort of air stripper. Its 3 inches long and has several holes. The barrel has also been modified. The shroud has 4 vent holes at the rear and the barrel to shroud adapters have tiny holes drilled into them. I don't know if that is stock configuration for a mk1.
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For anyone wanting to see how the buccaneer compares to the R-10. So far that trigger feels OK, much better than any of my break barrel triggers.
RKR what do you mean by back vented. I bought my R-10 used and it did not have baffles inside the shroud, instead I found what I now believe is some sort of air stripper. Its 3 inches long and has several holes. The barrel has also been modified. The shroud has 4 vent holes at the rear and the barrel to shroud adapters have tiny holes drilled into them. I don't know if that is stock configuration for a mk1.
On stock R10s the functional part of the shroud is only in front of the barrel. The barrel to shroud "adapter" is a solid piece and has no ventilation holes to the part around the barrel. JB designed it with ventilation holes but BSA decided to skip on production costs basically ruining the shroud. JBs shroud design was not the best but it would have been functional. People in UK usually purchase an aftermarket shroud or add silencer to their shroud to make the gun quiet. There's also the shroudless VC model with threaded barrel end.
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Ok, thanks rkr.
my r10 is very back yard freindy, much quieter than a umarex fusion. So the shroud if working, I wouldn't dare shoot without it.
I have tried and it's loud.
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How does the Buccaneer shoot, do you think it will shoot under 1/2 inch at 50 yards, has to at least do that for me.
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Thank you,
in the vid I could not tell if it was two more holes or what I just made sure of, it is held in with a C-clip... so yep would need to have a few with different openings for differing power levels...
open for max power...
Have to do some thinking and studying to figure most efficient balance at a given power level...
It would be easier to adjust the power with transfer port and just have big enough opening in the valve housing. It seems that removing the breech is a three screw deal only.
I agree... I think they did it that way for differing export fpe restrictions? or does it help with the contraction/shock of sudden psi loss..?
It restrcicts the maximum power and flattens the power curve at higher pressure region. Not as accurate as hammer spring adjustment though.
I understand those points but am thinking a bit more complicated and the whole vavle & flow path & trade offs and turbulence will post more but have a dang Migrane right now...
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How does the Buccaneer shoot, do you think it will shoot under 1/2 inch at 50 yards, has to at least do that for me.
I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet so I do not know. I will be happy with it shooting dime size groups at 25yrds. Thats what I have all my airguns set to.I have plenty of space to shoot beyond that but for now I see no need. I like to get in as close as possible before i pull the trigger. All i can say is that it shoulders well, not heavy, has good balance. Will be very loud. To be honest i just like the way it looks so even if it shoots 1 inch groups at 20 yards I will keep it, but thats just me.
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Thanks Rabbitguy.
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How does the Buccaneer shoot, do you think it will shoot under 1/2 inch at 50 yards, has to at least do that for me.
At 24 joule/~18 fpe and a .22 with heavy pellets not so well... his might need some tuning, but mostly he needed to try lighter pellets or up the power for 50m... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCeTygliUPE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCeTygliUPE)
Here is a .22 Yote at 50 yards it is I think in U.S. tune... ;) ~29fpe... It might improve with some ability to adjust power up and down to find the pellet/barrels "sweet spot"... so a power adjuster and tuning not to mention the barrel may need a bit of "shooting in" or lapping... at the price I do not think they take the time to hand lap the barrels and doing so will often tighten up groups...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LWtFRxkgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LWtFRxkgQ)
most of the stringing is horizontal which may be in part wind...
here is a .25 Yote at distance and once again having a Power adjuster could help (and with some of the pellets more++ fpe)...
~20 min in for past talking and the start of shooting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WekubgKXOOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WekubgKXOOY)
Now .177 faces challenges of its own at 50 yards but with tuning I think .5" may be achievable... But even pretty durn .75" is good for most air rifles...
At distance fpe managed right means accuracy I do think the potential is there out of the box maybe with the right pellet... with some tuning and in decent conditions...
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Thanks KO, I have seen those videos. It is always harder to judge accuracy when shooting outdoors so many variables.
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Now .177 faces challenges of its own at 50 yards but with tuning I think .5" may be achievable... But even pretty durn .75" is good for most air rifles...
All properly functioning BSA PCPs in .177 can do 0.5" ctc groups at 50 yards once you've find the pellet they like. Many can even do 0.3" ctc at that distance. There were some problematic .177 barrels few years ago but it seems that barrels made today are good.
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My .177 Buc SE showed up yesterday, got the Amazon deal, about $250 shipped. Has a beautiful stock but FedEx put a crack and some dents in it. Too bad, it fit me like a glove. Emailed Amazon this morning and I will have a replacement in two days. Not bad, huh. Regards, Tom
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Well guys I had a little time to shoot the buc yesterday and I like it a lot. I can say it is loud so you will need a way to reduce the report. My r10 came with an extra which fit the buc nicely and took care of that problem. I didn't have any issues with the trigger it's not like the r10 trigger for sure, more like a umarex 850 I think. I was only able to shoot it 32 times before the mosquitoes began their assault. Too many.
Anyway, after cleaning the barrel and mounting the only scope available a Winchester 4x32 from academy I somewhat got it close to zeroed at 25 yards.
All pics are of 5 shot groups.
Pic 1 is of shots 16-20.
Pic 2&3 are of shots 21-25.
Pic 4 is of shots 28-32.
That's all I had time for plus the needle on the gauge was getting close to the red and I did not have my pump.
Today I will shoot it over the chrony if I get home early enough to do so.
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Those are with the your Buc not the r10 right...
Well I have a tradition of posting the first groups of my builds/purchases for better or worse...
This time it is 9 shots combo zero and group... It arrived with 125 bar in the tank and fill adapter is due Monday...
Hurricane Horizon 4X32 (Tasco made 70s_60s) nice fine wire crosshairs... simple...
Aim was point bottom bull pulled trigger and missed the whole plate...
So moved aim point to the top tack(biggest tack hole top center)
the first two shots went way right and low and then I decide to move the scope back then got the lone hole
then some adjustment took a wild guess did not want to count clicks... Moved aim point to bottom bull was high right adjusted down and left, Counting clicks this time...
then I call the low right shot my fault... was not trying hard or watching form etc...
then I was down around 100 bar so called it quits...
CPUM from the tin... I like the first few times with a new rifle to be very relaxed not pushing for perfection point is, I think it is capable of one big hole groups at 25 yards... am a happy camper... there is a small niggle about the stain on my stock not quite done right...
But I do have enough walnut for about 6 stocks...
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oh forgot my 14.5" barreled 2289 clone from about 16-22 pumps barks just a touch louder than the Buc at a 1800 psi fill...
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K.O, yes those are with the Buccaneer. I got lucky and got it near zero in just a few shots. I am happy with it and once i get use to it I will move the target out to 50 yards and try my best.
by the way i was using jsb exact 10.3grn pellets, my goto pellet.
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Is it just me or did anyone else notice that the magazine in the Buccaneer is entirely plastic? The Scorpion on the other hand, has a magazine that has plastic sides but an aluminum center. They seem to be interchangeable though.
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Yeah Vigilandy,
Even the R10 has a mostly plastic magazine, with the two larger, flat sides being sheet metal. At first I was dismayed, however, after time I have realized they work flawlessly .......... so problem at all :D.
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Hey Andy mine is metal on the feed side and the rest is plastic but works very well...
I have been testing pellets at 20-30 yards...would shoot two magazines then refill so not all were tested quite equally...
Also the pellets tended to have two small groups with a slight space... last night I found the screw holding the action to the stock was a loose allowing movement so I think my groups will be better than the ones during testing
I am very happy with mine it is barely pellet picky... so far the only pellets that it did not like are Winchester pointed(all over the place 4") and RWS superdomes... If it had the ability to be turn down the power I think it would like them...
its favorites so far are the CPUM 10.3g, Benji hollow/CPHP 7.9g, H&N Barracuda hunter 10.34g, and the Kodiak 10.65g... <.5" groups
with just slightly larger group size are the Winchester hollow point 9.7g, Air Arms 10.3 and JSB Monster 13.4g...
It was very interesting that on the vertical plane at 20-30 yards all the pellets had very close to the same poi...
On the horizontal plane it was near the same except the JSB monsters hit about 1" left at 20 yards and almost 2" left at 30...
The AA 10.3g was .25" left at 20 and about .5" at 30 yards... Hmm implications about cylindrical pellets..?
The pellets that surprised me were the Benji 7.9 and the Crosman 7.4 points(.44 goup except for a flier out at about .5 away)
I did not expect the lighter pellets to do that well having no way to turn down the power... but do think a RVA would help even more..!
I have some light hollows and wad cutters to test seeing that the Crosman lights did well... oh have about 30 left of the Winnie domed also...
Eventually I will test at 40-60 yards but so far I am very happy with the Buccaneer .177... so far the power plant seems very consistent with arguably one of the best barrels out there( Hammer forged(read durable), tapered & choked, and solid enough to not be harmonically active(which point to the poi shifts of other barrels with different pellets being at least partially due to harmonics)...
I just checked the Buccaneer .177 price and they are back at $505(.25 is 499.99 thru P.A.)...
Makes me wonder about the .22 ever going on as good of a sale, I think I would choose it over the Discovery(.25 is still Mrod territory for my choice )
All I can say so far is GREAT JOB in Birmingham folks... I spent some $ I really could barely afford and am happy I did...
I feel with an RVA this would be the .177 or .22 to have...
Some very minor niggles on the stocks staining and the loose screw on mine but that's it...
Oh, I have only been pumping to 3000 psi...
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Oh I forgot to mention I measure grouping outside edge to outside edge not CTC...
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You may be already doing this, be sure to remove the muzzle thread protector before shooting for groups. That way you get the full effect of the nice crown they put on it. Regards, Tom
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You may be already doing this, be sure to remove the muzzle thread protector before shooting for groups. That way you get the full effect of the nice crown they put on it. Regards, Tom
Nope have left the muzzle break on will have to try without it tomorrow... also have not been running any fouling shots between different pellets either...
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Hi,
I do realise that this topic has not been posted recently, but as I have just purchased a .177 BSA Buccaneer SE, this seemed to be the place to mention it!
Unlike most of the posters on here I actually live in England (U.K.)... only about 50 miles or so from Birmingham, where the Buc. is actually manufactured... but unfortunately for export only!
I therefore purchased mine from a large gun retailer in Spain for about £150 less that I could buy a Gamo Coyote here, and it was shipped directly to my door by UPS without any carriage charge at all.
The rifle had obviously never been opened prior to me receiving it, and a free tin of JSB Exact pellets were also included.
It was actually already fully charged, which surprised me slightly, so was therefore sent by road, and sea, as opposed to air, but still arrived here in 3 days, which wasn't bad going.
I shan't have a chance to put any lead through it until I visit my local club on Sunday, who have a 20 yard indoor range, which suits me just fine.
Overall though I am initially very impressed with the Buccaneer, which has a lovely grained stock, and a lightly greased and well protected barrel, so I am looking forward to seeing how it performs! :)