GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: Motorhead on July 26, 2013, 02:31:02 AM
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Seems fatigue does take it's toll on parts, but not after JUST doing a tune up :P
Came to me as a used rifle not a month ago getting all tweaked and tuned then returned to customer shooting like a laser only to FAIL in this fashion :o
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCI0079_zps1f3160da.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCI0080_zps7882f599.jpg)
(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCI0081_zps5e082232.jpg)
Next task to search around finding a T-6 piston assembly # 30777300 >:( in this country ... huh :P
If any of you have leads OTHER THAN Umarex direct .... please do forward any info you can !
Thank You,
Scott
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Scott, I never had a Diana apart. Does the sear that grabs that rod contact on the bottom only or is a double gripper type of mechanism? It seem to me that those rods are loaded slightly off center and could eventually work themselves loose. That's a heavy knurl but not much depth/diameter ratio. Obviously there's not a design issue or they would be popping out left and right, I'm just surprised that's all that holds it together :o
Tom
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Yikes! The rod snapped where it threads into the tube?
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Oh, it didn't pull out, it snapped! Ouch!
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Seems I've read a few posts where that's happened. You might want to ask about this on the Dianawerk forum. John in PA might be someone who could point you in the right direction since he works on lots of Dianas.
Scotty
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Scott check this out bro!! QUICK!! I can't access...can you???
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1374762510/FS-+HMO+oringed+piston+for+diana+48-54 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1374762510/FS-+HMO+oringed+piston+for+diana+48-54)
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I read where somebody had his welded, never heard how well it worked. I think they are a loose fit so they will alighn up when cocking . and somebody on the dwc was making replacement pistons. id go search the dwc or ask red feather he might remember who it was
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I remember the same thing happened to another member a few months ago. Same rifle, brand new. Sent back for warranty, but never heard back from him.
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Scott check this out bro!! QUICK!! I can't access...can you???
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1374762510/FS-+HMO+oringed+piston+for+diana+48-54 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1374762510/FS-+HMO+oringed+piston+for+diana+48-54)
Done ... Posted an INTERESTED requesting an e-mail contact
Sent a g-mail inquire also
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never seen that before :( that not worthy :-\ I hope you get that piston it looks like a good 1 ;) :P
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That's a warranty issue. I know the guns was opened but maybe you can exchange the piston for a new one? They certainly can't argue that.
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That's a warranty issue. I know the guns was opened but maybe you can exchange the piston for a new one? They certainly can't argue that.
Just got off the phone with AOA where rifle was purchased actually in February of this year.
There words were ....
we Do Not do warranty work here at AOA .... ONLY Umarex does and it's up to them in honoring. And because gun has been dismantled they won't honor it anyways. Then went on to say broken piston stems come from shooting too light a pellet or dry firing. Tyhen the last question being can I purchase parts to fix from AOA ? .... NOPE, states Umarex won't even sell them parts or anyone else for that matter current production gun parts
What a crock of POO that is !! .... no dang wonder Umarex's name when it come up is followed by nothing positive to say >:(
O'boy where too from here ???
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Not surprised one bit. No word from yellow guy Scott???
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I know this may be a bit of a stretch, but is there any way to machine the part? Since you have the original, you have something to work from. Just a thought, even it's it's crazy....
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I know this may be a bit of a stretch, but is there any way to machine the part? Since you have the original, you have something to work from. Just a thought, even it's it's crazy....
Somebody had to make it to begin with.
BTW, that may be the most beautiful yard I have ever seen.
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Not surprised one bit. No word from yellow guy Scott???
Nope ... nothing in response yet 4:35 PST :P
Just got an e-mail from OP @ 4:55 pst .... talking now ;)
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and don't leave us hangin, its like it was our gun too
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We got the piston Robert!! Whew!!! Thanks to Clark on the Dianawerk who pointed me to the post on the yellow, and to Scott for getting in touch with the seller.
Totally sick that this happened....cannot tell you how great that rifle was shooting after Scott set her up.
The ONLY pellet I ever used in her was JSB Heavies...period. I take very good care of my guns and see absolutely no reason for this to have happened.
I did a search and found another thread that stated the same exact problem with a brand new 56.
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That's a warranty issue. I know the guns was opened but maybe you can exchange the piston for a new one? They certainly can't argue that.
Just got off the phone with AOA where rifle was purchased actually in February of this year.
There words were ....
we Do Not do warranty work here at AOA .... ONLY Umarex does and it's up to them in honoring. And because gun has been dismantled they won't honor it anyways. Then went on to say broken piston stems come from shooting too light a pellet or dry firing. Tyhen the last question being can I purchase parts to fix from AOA ? .... NOPE, states Umarex won't even sell them parts or anyone else for that matter current production gun parts
What a crock of POO that is !! .... no dang wonder Umarex's name when it come up is followed by nothing positive to say >:(
O'boy where too from here ???
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/noaoa_zps5bb7757c.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/NPetey/media/noaoa_zps5bb7757c.jpg.html)
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Maybe that pup should have a bag in each hand Pete!!! Ugh
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I thinks that's equal to a "Full Diaper".
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We got the piston Robert!! Whew!!! Thanks to Clark on the Dianawerk who pointed me to the post on the yellow, and to Scott for getting in touch with the seller.
Totally sick that this happened....cannot tell you how great that rifle was shooting after Scott set her up.
The ONLY pellet I ever used in her was JSB Heavies...period. I take very good care of my guns and see absolutely no reason for this to have happened.
I did a search and found another thread that stated the same exact problem with a brand new 56.
That's awesome you got the replacement piston!
When you examine the broken part, can you somewhat determine what kind of flaw caused it to fail?
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BTW, that may be the most beautiful yard I have ever seen.
Thanks, nice of you to say. :D
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If there is a golden under lining to all this .... it very well maybe ( Given compression chambers concentric ) that the R&D of others being an O-ring type piston seal and precision tolerance piston further increases this rifle shooting potential ???
Tad bit or rework involved and some careful bore gauge measuring to see if compression chamber is actually round and suffering any degree of taper ? .... Lucky to have access to buds with SUNNEN hone machines if the need arises :P
Deep breath ..... tell one's self, Toy guns toy guns ;)
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If need be.......I have access to several Studer cylindrical grinders, too......in case that need arises.
I hope it doesn't for you, though.
Mike
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Tough break Joe no pun intended that reall not worthy :o I know you liked the way that rifle shot
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Exactly, that 56 was a hummer at long range, what a PITA to have that happen to it.
But, looking to the bright side as mentioned above, the HMO piston might wring out some more performance in the old shootin iron for ya Joe.
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I so appreciate everyone's help and concern. If you follow this thread you will find what makes this place great!! Everyone looking to help in anyway they can. Awesome!!
Little patience, and faith in the Motorbada$$!!!! Like Scott says....toy guns..toy guns....
PS Does anyone have an idea on how this happened or what would cause this failure?? The ONLY pellet fired is the JSB 10.3 domes. AOA says light pellets will cause this...they were NEVER fired from this gun. Lotta lead thru her, but don't think this should've caused this issue. Shooting laser beam accurate one shot....the next...no lock up.
???????????
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Fatigue pure and simple my take on it. Cracks origin clearly at root of the knurling which would be / is a stress riser being there at all.
As a spring guns hammer falls that long lock post becomes essentially a tuning fork vibrating down it's length with every shot taken.
Not an engineer, but clearly seeing first hand different methods manufacturers use in attaching there cocking rods to pistons head, this Diana way pretty obviously is designed less than optimal ???
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I have heard of this but never seen it. Is the stem threaded or just pressed in the piston head? Just not a good thought of that happening.?Good thing for the RWS BEAR TRAP working while cocking .
I wonder if it snapped after firing or just let go after cocking. That would have bent a trip on on the break barrel and the gun loaded, well would have fired on either type gun.
Safety on or not it would have fired if it just let go.
:o
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Can NOT tell how rod was attached being HEAD of piston still has the END of the rod within it.
Knurling present indicates little being it is lengthwise, load placed upon the rod and if pressed in would just as easily pull out :P
Some thing else in the design holds the rod in place and that detail is hidden from view by that portion still in place ... unless I cut piston in half to get a cross sectional view can only guess :-X
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I have heard of this but never seen it. Is the stem threaded or just pressed in the piston head? Just not a good thought of that happening.?Good thing for the RWS BEAR TRAP working while cocking .
I wonder if it snapped after firing or just let go after cocking. That would have bent a trip on on the break barrel and the gun loaded, well would have fired on either type gun.
Safety on or not it would have fired if it just let go.
:o
Hey Fanger!!
Was shooting perfectly. Took a shot, on target, cocked gun and it did not feel or sound right at all. Tons of pressure when trying to return cocking lever to closed position. Held back on it, released near trap, closed lever. Lever would not stay in place, flopped open bout an inch. Pulled trigger and got nothing but a small click.
No warning or sign of a problem till she failed.
I e mailed Diana, but haven't heard a word. AOA wants nothing to do with the issue.
Thank God for the Motormouth! Not sure what my options would be otherwise.
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I always thought they were pressed in but never new for sure. I do know you can drill and pin them when they get loose or just drill a plug and then mig weld the plug. After that you can clean the weld up and you are tight now. By the picture, which it is hard to tell, looks like it had a stem type setup. At the brake is there any type of a void on the end of the stem where it broke?
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I posted on top of you. So by what I understand the thing let go maybe after the shot. The you cocked the gun the stem stayed in the trigger group. The clicking was the trigger letting go of the rod that was still in place. I know when I remove the spring and play with a spring setup or trigger the guns will click to release the piston with no spring. Then you just pull the psiton forward a tad and re set the trigger. Must to have let go after the shot. Either way it is bad deal but if it had let go while cocked on any of the guns the thing would have fired. Just think when you load one and set it down for the next bird or what ever or just picked the gun up and it went of. HOLLY COW!!!! THAT IS WHAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT THE STEM ON THE PISTON GUNS.
You were lucky!!! ;)
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Yup. This is a PITA, but a trip to the hospital would be much worse!! Also, judging by the amount of pressure on cocking lever...if that thing snapped back fingers would go flying.
Is the piston we picked up just like the stock one that failed?? Any differences??
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I THINK the rods in these pistons is not really a true press fit. The knurling, at least in the 34's, 350's and clones seems to serve more to keep the rod from rotating, but is probably a bit of an interference fit when first put together. The rod is installed in the cap before the cap is crimped into the piston body. I THINK it is locked in place by a sort of lip on the rod end that prevents pullout, which is why these rods can be sort of loose and move around without pulling out. If I'm right, it looks like this one snapped the end lip off.
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My take is that the straight knurl is used to reduce the need for a high tolerance interference fit. If a proper press fit tolerance and finishes were used, I'd bet the knurl would be unnecessary.
Tom
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Come to think about it, when I got my D-34 T-06 tuned, my tuner told me something about a piston problem some RWS T06s were having. He said they were pressed on and he had a fix for it if it was needed. He said something about tapping it. In my case it was not needed. I am not mechanically inclined so it just flew right over my head and never thought anything about it until I heard about Joe's loss, and Motorheads resurrection.
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Yup. Mine is the third I've heard of with a similar problem. I e mailed Diana last week and haven't heard back from them.
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Yup. Mine is the third I've heard of with a similar problem. I e mailed Diana last week and haven't heard back from them.
Please keep me informed, even if it is with a PM. If support is not given to you, I will not give them any more support with my $$$. I know I am just one person, but I am one person who does not want to be promised a gold mine and get the shaft instead.
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Will let everyone know what the out come is Jess. I sent another e mail this evening. I also e mailed Weihrach the same day. I got a notice that e mail was received and got an answer the next day. They are also sending me a free hat just for reaching out to them. Hope I at least get a response from Diana.
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Doody bags aside, I wasn't referring to AoA as a warranty center but contacting UmarexUSA, directly, maybe with pictures. I'm sure they have a spare piston or two laying about. AoA does zip point doo-doo when it comes to warranty work. As catastrophic a failure as your piston experienced, I should think that UmarexUSA would want to stand behind it. Then again, it's been a long time since we've enjoyed the same level of service as was given by the old warranty center in New Jersey. At any rate, it might be good to have the factory piston on hand should your HMO not work out.
BTW, I'm wondering if these rods aren't crimped in somehow? Can't see how a press fit would really last. Maybe M&G has changed something? These kinds of failures in the past were very few and far between.
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Hey Feather. I e mailed Diana and Umarex about the failure. AOA just washed their hands of the whole issue.
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Hey Feather. I e mailed Diana and Umarex about the failure. AOA just washed their hands of the whole issue.
When a company washes their hands of a product they sell, I will wash my hands of being a customer. I believe deep in my heart that PA would take care of you if they had sold it to you.
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Judging by past experience with PA I agree with you Jess.
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Joe how is the saga progressing any good news yet on the rifle repair? :( That really stinks to have that kind of failure and bupkus for support from the seller
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Seller AND the manufacturer Don. Ugh.
We're waiting for the piston that was found on the yellow to be delivered. I am missing that sweet shooter!!!
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Seller AND the manufacturer Don. Ugh.
We're waiting for the piston that was found on the yellow to be delivered. I am missing that sweet shooter!!!
I'm thinking that Diana needs to rethink their replacement parts policy or they will loose a lot of new potential buyers and open the door to after market quality replacement parts form another source
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Joe how is the saga progressing any good news yet on the rifle repair? :( That really stinks to have that kind of failure and bupkus for support from the seller
Were getting it back together, tad bit of fiddling required to get the Vortek kit to work with the after market o-ring piston set.
Too many variables in allowed tolerance for it to be just a simple drop in swap and fix ... :P :P :P
Rifles in able hands .... so there is LIGHT down yonder tunnel ;D
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Seller AND the manufacturer Don. Ugh.
We're waiting for the piston that was found on the yellow to be delivered. I am missing that sweet shooter!!!
As much as I hate to say it RWS has gotten their last dollar from me, and AOA will not get its first. Sometimes companies need to step up to the plate, even if they lose a dollar here or there. In the long run they will make money hand over fist just because they care about their good name. JMHO and dollars that I use to vote with.
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What's the full story on this gun? Was it purchased from AoA, sent for a tune and then broke or was it purchased used and tuned (or subsequently tuned)? One of the buggaboo's with most all brands is, if you crack it open, there goes the warranty. In that case, it's hard to get a dealer to accept the gun back. Not defending AoA, mind you. The problem of the piston rod separating actually should go to the factory warranty service center, UmarexUSA. Even if AoA offered to repair your gun, they could not since UmarexUSA is the sole provider of spare parts and they don't even like their dealers working on guns. That's been discussed here just recently. Why I suggested you call and raise cane with UmarexUSA as the piston coming apart is more than simply a broken spring or torn seal. Like I said earlier, I'm not defending either the vendor or wholesaler. Just offering a different perspective. Personally, were I running UmarexUSA, I would simply exchange pistons. If only to sweep this under the rug.
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Hey Feather. Not expecting Umarex or AOA to fix anything bro. I'd just like them to replace the piston, free or not, and maybe let me know how something like this could happen to a brand new gun. AOA says light pellets will cause this failure. The ONLY pellets used are JSB 10.3 or Cuda Match 10.6...period.
Rifle was purchased new in Feb of this year. Had a kit installed and tuned. Don't really care about warranty repair as cost of shipping and turn around time are pretty brutal. Also would rather have my rifles worked on by reputable tuner.
I didn't expect AOA to do anything more than give Umarex a call on my behalf to get the piston replaced....whether I had to pay for it or not. They won't even do that.
E mailed and called Umarex and haven't heard back for 2 weeks.
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Hey Feather. Not expecting Umarex or AOA to fix anything bro. I'd just like them to replace the piston, free or not, and maybe let me know how something like this could happen to a brand new gun. AOA says light pellets will cause this failure. The ONLY pellets used are JSB 10.3 or Cuda Match 10.6...period.
Rifle was purchased new in Feb of this year. Had a kit installed and tuned. Don't really care about warranty repair as cost of shipping and turn around time are pretty brutal. Also would rather have my rifles worked on by reputable tuner.
I didn't expect AOA to do anything more than give Umarex a call on my behalf to get the piston replaced....whether I had to pay for it or not. They won't even do that.
E mailed and called Umarex and haven't heard back for 2 weeks.
At this point I think that the manufacturer should be heavily invested in the problem if it happened 3 times with the same type of catastrophic failure they have a serious issue to be addressed. Until I hear otherwise no new diana's in my gun closet and I will explore products that are better supported by the factory
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I'd have to agree Don. I in no way expect anyone to free ship and fix it, but no response from manufacturer or main distributor? This is a nasty problem that could be dangerous. Seller wants nothing to do with the prob and offers no help at all.
If Scott wasn't willing to tackle this mess, what other options would be available?? Shelf a 6 month old gun??? The real shame is that it is a HECK of a rifle!!! And was thinking of getting another in 22. Not so sure now. Hopefully I'll get a response this week....will post it up if it does show.
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I'd have to agree Don. I in no way expect anyone to free ship and fix it, but no response from manufacturer or main distributor? This is a nasty problem that could be dangerous. Seller wants nothing to do with the prob and offers no help at all.
If Scott wasn't willing to tackle this mess, what other options would be available?? Shelf a 6 month old gun??? The real shame is that it is a HECK of a rifle!!! And was thinking of getting another in 22. Not so sure now. Hopefully I'll get a response this week....will post it up if it does show.
Well there is always the nitro piston option and I think that Scott is up to the challenge ;D ;D And yes keep us all up to date on this. I could better understand the attitude if they were the only game in town but that is not the case and there would not be the Air gun depot and Pyramyd air if there was not tons of money to be made. Umerex USA is being very foolish and shortsighted and Dianawerks is really falling down on their part. :(
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Nitro pistons will not work in Diana guns so far as I know. Why they don't offer it.
Just for S's and Grins, ask Umarex how much for a piston? Sit down before reading the reply. Curious if they will sell one. They will sell barrels for 34's but at a steep price.
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If they ever respond, that's what I plan to do Red. I also sent them the link to this thread. I want them to see the pics and responses.
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As the tuner here 2nd go around ... ( Gun was tuned 1st after purchase by another person and my getting into it @ 1 1/2 months ago was the second go around ) ..... Now my reason for even going here is simply to get it our there so the rumor mill of "DEFECTIVE PARTS" is really kept in check.
Only Joe knows how many pellets were cycled threw the gun from February 03 to @ June 03 prior to my tune work.
* But did ask how MANY SHOTS run threw gun in the month or so from my tuning to this failure ??? ..... said @ 3000 :o :o :o
WOW .... 3K in a month makes me realize in spite of rifle 7 months in service age, has been subject to use seldom seen by rifles 20 years old IMO. So yes FATIGUE is a very relative thing here that needs to taken into consideration before we start stating Diana's no more :o
Umarex has PR / Service issues, that's not in question ... Diana germany too letting them deal with the US market as they wish appropriate.
Just sayin ;)
Scott
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Ummmmmm pretty sure I said at least 3,000 Scott!!! Rifle has to have about 7 - 9,000 total. TX has twice that and it keeps on getting better.
Glynn, xsquad, had no where near that amount and his had the same prob. His was not even 2 months old and bone stock. Took almost 2 months to get the rifle back from Umarex. He paid shipping.
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WOW .... 3K in a month makes me realize in spite of rifle 7 months in service age, has been subject to use seldom seen by rifles 20 years old IMO. So yes FATIGUE is a very relative thing here that needs to taken into consideration before we start stating Diana's no more :o
Umarex has PR / Service issues, that's not in question ... Diana germany too letting them deal with the US market as they wish appropriate.
Scott
I shoot 500 or more pellets on a week end. :)
The boss of a company is responsible for his employees, so in my opinion Diana should be held responsible for Umarex. When I was working I took many butt chewings for my employees, and would not have had it any other way.
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Ummmmmm pretty sure I said at least 3,000 Scott!!!
At LEAST ... your killin me here Joe ;D
Do you ever sleep ?
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Dude!!! I'm a pool player.....synonymous with vampire!! We never sleep!! And believe it or not, air gun fundamentals have helped pool stroke!! Maybe I should just move in next door!!
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Umarex has PR / Service issues, that's not in question ... Diana germany too letting them deal with the US market as they wish appropriate.
Scott
I shoot 500 or more pellets on a week end. :)
The boss of a company is responsible for his employees, so in my opinion Diana should be held responsible for Umarex. When I was working I took many butt chewings for my employees, and would not have had it any other way.
[/quote]
Things aren't quite so simple when dealing with international sales for any company. Diana (actually Mayer & Grammelspacher) could sell their guns here with their own employees but that would take more effort on their part. After all, they are set up to operate in Germany and to some extent, Europe. Things change dramatically when you jump the pond and it isn't worth their time and $$ to figure that out when they could just sell the rights to wholesaling their guns in the US. Makes things much easier for them and the money continues to come in.
They obviously lose control of many aspects of how/when their guns are sold, how warranty issues are handled, what guns will actually be sold, etc. Sure, I'd love it if M&G would get Umarex to back out of their arrangement and someone else would step up to the plate and offer more focused attention to the Diana line. There is certainly a market here for them to expand.
...Back to the previously scheduled thread topic...
I would like to know how the new piston works out for you. It should be good!
Clark
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30%. That is what someone said the USA represents of Diana's global market. Think the model 280 would sell here if priced under the R7? You bet! Can we buy one? Nope! UmarexUSA won't import them. No vision whatsoever. A fancy $600+ commemorative 34? Sure, they'll offer that. Hard to see your market when your head's up your butt.
Do hope you get that big 56 talking again.
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Do hope you get that big 56 talking again.
Seconded, and do it soon man.................... ;)
As another voice adding to the din, I would seriously have expected SOMEONE from Umarex or RWS or Diana, or somewhere to have responded with some sort of information, support, an offer of a crying towel, or at the very least a message to the effect of 'BUZZ OFF'.
Considering that the 54/56 platform is the flagship of their product line, and the fact that it is named AirKing, not AirDuke, AirPrince, or AirCaptain, but KING, one would expect a potential design failure, no matter how remote or isolated, to be addressed with at least a modicum of concern.
Consider also, that the exposure such a failure receives on this forum is just about as close to bad press as you can come without printing it in the Sunday New York Times, there should be some sort of communication on the subject other than Joe firing Letters off into interweb neverland never to be answered in our lifetime.
All other factors aside, the tuning, the number of shot cycles, the fact that it was bought used, or whatever, to simply dismiss the problem as "NOT UNDER WARRANTY' seems to be a rather cavalier attitude to adopt for a manufacturer or importer of a product that is nothing more than a luxury offered to those with disposable income.
Free rifle as replacement- NO
Email to Umarex instructing them to sell Joe a Piston- REASONABLE
Package from Germany containing piston- DIANA PRAISE ABOUNDS ON GTA, RWS NOTICES MARKED INCREASE IN PRODUCT SALES.........................
Then again maybe not
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Just got me a new piston from umarex usa for my 460 t-05 it was 54 dollars it wasn't outrageous price but I always call them. Hope everything works out for you.
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::) ::) Expecting a manufacturer to respond to a mechanical issue that has the potential to cause property or personal harm should be the norm for those in the corporate world, that does not appear to be the case this time. The fact that this forum has a large and active membership should be raising red flags in their customer support operation. As I stated earlier on this thread as much as I enjoy both of my Diana rifles there are other manufactures of comparable pellet rifles at the price point of the Diana that seem to have a much better interaction with the customer base. Those manufacturers will be given my business until I see an acceptable level of customer support from Diana/Umerex
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Just got me a new piston from umarex usa for my 460 t-05 it was 54 dollars it wasn't outrageous price but I always call them. Hope everything works out for you.
Hey Daniel.
What happened to yours?? Lots of lead thru the gun?? Same symptoms??
I'd like to clear something up here if there are any questions.
I do not expect anything for free from anyone. I am not staying up at night waiting for the air gun fairy to place a new rifle under my pillow. I've been in a mechanical business for 38 years and I definitely know stuff happens and things fail. I know the warranty was voided and I did so gladly. I am more than happy to pay for the part and the cost of installation. But this isn't a spring or a small matter.
There has been absolutely no flaming of anyone here.
I can almost understand AOA's responses to Scott and I.....almost. Just no is sometimes not enough, but that might be not picking because I know there isn't much they can do.
I received a brand new TX in Jan and blew a spring in a little over a month. No big deal, send it to Scott and gladly pay for him to hook her up. No gripes at all. But this is a major failure. I will gladly pay for the repair, but a little interest shown from someone is all I'm asking. Just glad this failure happened to me and not one of my younger shooting buddies. Not sure if it could've happened, but what if one of them tried to force the anti bear trap closed and that cocking lever slammed closed?? That would not have been pretty at all.
Thanks for all the concern guys.....really appreciate it!!!
Now get that sweetheart shooting Scott!!!
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Just got me a new piston from umarex usa for my 460 t-05 it was 54 dollars it wasn't outrageous price but I always call them. Hope everything works out for you.
Hey Daniel.
What happened to yours?? Lots of lead thru the gun?? Same symptoms??
I'd like to clear something up here if there are any questions.
I do not expect anything for free from anyone. I am not staying up at night waiting for the air gun fairy to place a new rifle under my pillow. I've been in a mechanical business for 38 years and I definitely know stuff happens and things fail. I know the warranty was voided and I did so gladly. I am more than happy to pay for the part and the cost of installation. But this isn't a spring or a small matter.
There has been absolutely no flaming of anyone here.
I can almost understand AOA's responses to Scott and I.....almost. Just no is sometimes not enough, but that might be not picking because I know there isn't much they can do.
I received a brand new TX in Jan and blew a spring in a little over a month. No big deal, send it to Scott and gladly pay for him to hook her up. No gripes at all. But this is a major failure. I will gladly pay for the repair, but a little interest shown from someone is all I'm asking. Just glad this failure happened to me and not one of my younger shooting buddies. Not sure if it could've happened, but what if one of them tried to force the anti bear trap closed and that cocking lever slammed closed?? That would not have been pretty at all.
Thanks for all the concern guys.....really appreciate it!!!
Now get that sweetheart shooting Scott!!!
Joe,
I understand what you are saying. We have spoken before on PM. I know you were not asking for a freebie. This is a matter of communication and they refuse to communicate. It is my opinion that AOA should have at least tried to help. Saying just NO is not good. Also saying the only way this can happen is using light pellets is wrong (I have heard of this problem with the T06 trigger and I am a moron when it comes to mechanical work). Investigation is part of communication, and AOA is at fault on that one. If a company wants business it should try to help a customer, and by not doing so it will hurt their bottom line. Customer support is more important than selling quality items. Diana and Umarex are also guilty of not communicating, and for that reason I am totally disgusted in your situation.
Please do not flame me or hold it against me for my opinion, because it is my opinion and mine alone.
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Everybody here knows that you pay your way home slice, that's really what I find disappointing in the whole affair.
You're not trying to get free stuff, you're trying to point something out that may be an issue, and the response is ......................................
Silence
No matter man, the KING SHALL RETURN!!!!
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Jesse!!! Flame you my friend??? Never!!! You make me laugh too much bro!!! Also we agree on paying the price to the correct people that know more than we do to make our stuff better!!
The only person I would ever flame is Niko.......mainly cause he shoots much better than me!!!
Thanks Chuck!! Just want you guys to know where I'm coming from.
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Just got me a new piston from umarex usa for my 460 t-05 it was 54 dollars it wasn't outrageous price but I always call them. Hope everything works out for you.
Hey Daniel.
What happened to yours?? Lots of lead thru the gun?? Same symptoms??
I'd like to clear something up here if there are any questions.
I do not expect anything for free from anyone. I am not staying up at night waiting for the air gun fairy to place a new rifle under my pillow. I've been in a mechanical business for 38 years and I definitely know stuff happens and things fail. I know the warranty was voided and I did so gladly. I am more than happy to pay for the part and the cost of installation. But this isn't a spring or a small matter.
There has been absolutely no flaming of anyone here.
I can almost understand AOA's responses to Scott and I.....almost. Just no is sometimes not enough, but that might be not picking because I know there isn't much they can do.
I received a brand new TX in Jan and blew a spring in a little over a month. No big deal, send it to Scott and gladly pay for him to hook her up. No gripes at all. But this is a major failure. I will gladly pay for the repair, but a little interest shown from someone is all I'm asking. Just glad this failure happened to me and not one of my younger shooting buddies. Not sure if it could've happened, but what if one of them tried to force the anti bear trap closed and that cocking lever slammed closed?? That would not have been pretty at all.
Thanks for all the concern guys.....really appreciate it!!!
Now get that sweetheart shooting Scott!!!
Mine had pretty good wobble up and down just didn't feel safe so got another one just for safe measures. Had to replace one on my 350 magnum also it was loose enough it wouldn't cock.
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Just got me a new piston from umarex usa for my 460 t-05 it was 54 dollars it wasn't outrageous price but I always call them. Hope everything works out for you.
Hey Daniel.
What happened to yours?? Lots of lead thru the gun?? Same symptoms??
I'd like to clear something up here if there are any questions.
I do not expect anything for free from anyone. I am not staying up at night waiting for the air gun fairy to place a new rifle under my pillow. I've been in a mechanical business for 38 years and I definitely know stuff happens and things fail. I know the warranty was voided and I did so gladly. I am more than happy to pay for the part and the cost of installation. But this isn't a spring or a small matter.
There has been absolutely no flaming of anyone here.
I can almost understand AOA's responses to Scott and I.....almost. Just no is sometimes not enough, but that might be not picking because I know there isn't much they can do.
I received a brand new TX in Jan and blew a spring in a little over a month. No big deal, send it to Scott and gladly pay for him to hook her up. No gripes at all. But this is a major failure. I will gladly pay for the repair, but a little interest shown from someone is all I'm asking. Just glad this failure happened to me and not one of my younger shooting buddies. Not sure if it could've happened, but what if one of them tried to force the anti bear trap closed and that cocking lever slammed closed?? That would not have been pretty at all.
Thanks for all the concern guys.....really appreciate it!!!
Now get that sweetheart shooting Scott!!!
Mine had pretty good wobble up and down just didn't feel safe so got another one just for safe measures. Had to replace one on my 350 magnum also it was loose enough it wouldn't cock.
If this is something that is appearing across the Diana magnum product line then the manufacturer needs to step up to the plate and offer a replacement /upgraded part at a reasonable price and not restrict the replacement part to only the distributor when this seems to be a design flaw and one that can potentially be a dangerous failure at that
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Man I just spent like 15 minutes reading this thread and the only thing I feel like doing now is :'(. Man I can't begin to think of how P.O.'d I would be if I spent big $$$ on a gun like that to have almost no support from the dealer or from the manufacturer :o. It's really a shame that NO ONE at this point is willing to do anything, not even to sell you the dang part :o. This kinda reminds me of what those poor Edgun fellows have to go through: wait 6 months on a "waiting list" for a 2k$ gun, finally get it and after 1'000 shots the regulator fails, then be forced to wait another 3 months to get the replacement reg :(. All I can really say is good luck Joe and the rest of y'all that are having difficulties getting in contact with RWS/Umarex, I'm sure that the situation will resolve itself sooner than later :-\. Keep us updated.
Caleb C.
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Little update....very little. >:( >:(
Sent Umarex an e mail in regards to this failure. I included the link to this thread.
I got a response this afternoon requesting that I give the service division a call. Hmmmm. Cool. I called and don't think I've been spoken to in such a condescending way since 6th grade.
Each time I tried to get a point across I was cut off and told to send the rifle to them in AZ. Tried to explain I had no interest in sending them the rifle or looking for a warranty repair. I just wanted to know if they found my problem a recurring one and if there is a fix for it. I was told he has no idea what I'm talking about. I explained the link with pictures to explain the prob was in the e mail. He said no link in the e mail. I will re send......don't bother because the gunsmith has no access to e mails. Gunsmith??? Tried to explain....again.......what I was calling about......I was told to expect a return form by e mail. For what?????
To say I was rushed off the phone is an understatement. Not a good experience. Literally no help at all with a really smelly attitude. Ugh
Mods......no flaming whatsoever here!! Just passing on info to the many members who have been following this thread. Was hoping to relay good news......really can't tho.
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Ugg is about right .... :P :P
No worries ... getting her back into BETTER THAN NEW operation as we discuss this unfortunate situation. ;)
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Can't thank you enough Scott!!!
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**** UPDATE ****
IF ANY ONE uses one of these o-ring type after market pistons be aware :o :o :o :o
At the o-ring end within spring cavity had missed seeing manufacturer has made an integral spring centering shoulder / pilot that is @ 5/16-3/8" high ;) ( built in & NOT removable )
:o Using the Vortek kit which has a plastic top hat / spring centering component on that end had it resting on this shoulder within piston adding @ 5/16 - 3/8" PRELOAD to the spring was installed ... THIS CREATED COMPLETE COIL BIND upon cocking and action would not lock up :P :P
Discovering this, REMOVED the Vortek top hat allowing spring to rest on the machined in shoulder within piston.
Action now Cock & Locks as it should.
Oups :P
SO BE AWARE .... Mix and matching AFTER MARKET PARTS can bite ya in the butt if you assume it should all just fit as factory parts do ;)
Where on the way to 100% success after a couple small things yet to do .... YAY !!!!!!!!
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If you end up wanting a factory piston, ask over on the Dianawerk Collective if anyone into the "54/.20" buy would be willing to part with one. Those guns are coming with an HMO piston, although this group buy has been messed up with the special pistons being delivered but not installed as promised. Anyway, someone might be willing to sell you a brand new factory piston. Come on over, in any event. The members there would be interested in your gun, etc. No membership required aside from an N54 handle.
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** Update #2 **
Well had to go back in and get that 3/16" top hat spacing back into place, without the extra pre-load rifle was shooting too soft :P
only managing to muster @810 fps with AA 10.3's. Took the hat over onto the lathe and back bored it to go over and around that darn shoulder. That done and 3/16" added to the pre-load velocity jumped to @ 865 .... Sweet !
So now we are sitting within 30-35 fps of where it shot before failure, this is great for an o-ring type piston BTW.
Think we have it where it needs to be, now to get her broken in again which in Joes case should be within a day or three or receiving it back into his lair of AG nirvana (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/smilies/av-101150.gif)
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Good stuff Scott!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Something Ain't Right
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(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/1695_zps47693ad7.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/NPetey/media/1695_zps47693ad7.jpg.html)
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I think that's the guy I spoke to yesterday Petey!!!
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Good news at last!!!
Not that there wasn't complete confidence in Scott getting it back in shape mind you.
Thanks for sharing the insight into installing the HMO piston and what to watch for, that's priceless information.
The KING rides again.
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With all the insensitivity I have been hearing for a while concerning Umarex and the Az company, I think I won't be doing business with either one. Hope y'all get all your issues resolved. Word of mouth travels far these days.
Bill in SC
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (I'm happy for you Joe!)
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glad to see that things are going to work out for Joe. It still stinks that the manufacturer and US distributor continue to have such a cavalier attitude, but if enough people begin to vote with their wallets and other manufacturers step up and step in to fill the product void the offending parties will begin to feel the pinch and will step up their customer service to repair the negative press Scott the package arrived Thank You very much
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I am voting now. I will not do any business with either company, and will not recommend them either. I am considering selling my D-34s on top of that.
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I am voting now. I will not do any business with either company, and will not recommend them either. I am considering selling my D-34s on top of that.
I bid $25 apiece . im not selling any dianas over this post, but id sell 1 and its just because its a little more than I can handle . but why sell a gun that isn't doing a bad job just because anothers is messing up? I have a friend that has a pickup just like mine and he keeps having trouble, im not getting rid of mine because of his. and exactly how many dianas are having big problems? compaired to how many are out in users hands ? I bet the percentage is like less than 10% are having a problem and some were opened up and modified . if you do that id say your on your own risk . I opened up a few and a few went bad too, not dianas but other brands and some others had no problems at all. my big cat was 1 and it never was a very good gun, I swore no more gamos but I didn't say all gamos are bad either my quarters worth
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I am voting now. I will not do any business with either company, and will not recommend them either. I am considering selling my D-34s on top of that.
I bid $25 apiece . im not selling any dianas over this post, but id sell 1 and its just because its a little more than I can handle . but why sell a gun that isn't doing a bad job just because anothers is messing up? I have a friend that has a pickup just like mine and he keeps having trouble, im not getting rid of mine because of his. and exactly how many dianas are having big problems? compaired to how many are out in users hands ? I bet the percentage is like less than 10% are having a problem and some were opened up and modified . if you do that id say your on your own risk . I opened up a few and a few went bad too, not dianas but other brands and some others had no problems at all. my big cat was 1 and it never was a very good gun, I swore no more gamos but I didn't say all gamos are bad either my quarters worth
I am voting now. I will not do any business with either company, and will not recommend them either. I am considering selling my D-34s on top of that.
as much as I like my 54 and 469 RWS Diana / Umarex will not see any further purchases by me of their products at this point my next purchase will probably be a Weihrauch HW95 rather than an RWS 34 or 350 which was my next major rifle purchase. Unless I see h huge change in customer support and much better customer relations no new Diana's for me in the foreseeable future :( Although I agree with you in principal Robert I feel the major issue is lack of response from the manufacturer. the nature if the failures and the parts involved are such that the manufacturer should be concerned due to the piston rod failure if that happens the gun will fire without the trigger being touched and the safety still engaged. Gun safety is paramount and an active interest in the rod breaking really has everything to do with a possible design flaw. Joe is not the only owner to experience this failure recently. A spring breaking is at worst an inconvenience the other is a safety issue. Sorry for the rant but I suffered an eye injury that was caused by an equipment failure
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That was my concern as well Don. First thing I thought of was what if one of my boys tried to force anti bear trap and that cocking lever slammed closed??? Major major issue.
I have sent the links to both recent, and one older....bout 4 months ago, threads stating the SAME problem to Diana and Umarex. Umarex out and out refused to open the links and literally brushed me off. Diana hasn't bothered to answer at all.
I made it plain as day that I wanted NOTHING from either of them. No warranty parts or repair. I just felt this was a serious SAFETY issue that someone, other than us, should be concerned about. Also, has this been a major issue with this platform and is there a re designed fix. I didn't think I was asking that much.
Umarex service division just totally blew me off. Wouldn't even let me explain what happened, to me and a few others recently. They sent me a return form. Ugh
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;D Remember the Bristol 2 stage A/C compressor that York ,carrier and others were using in their systems about 10 to 15 years ago .I recently had to replace 2 of the in carrier equipment. Carrier and Bristol are warrantying the compressors even though the original warranty had expired and are replacing the compressor at no cost to the consumer and paying $450 towards the labor just fill out a field report and send compressor back to Carrier . In this case the distributor and the manufacturer choose to sweep it under the rug they should be asking for the failed part in return offering at reasonable cost a replacement part so they could examine the failed part and determine the nature of the failure and take steps to insure a reasonable level of performance from the part. Not necessarily free but a responsible and positive customer relations attitude. It seems that when 30% of a company's revenue comes from a particular market and that market is savvy keep them satisfied no dissapointed :( :o
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Yup!!! Copelametic did the same thing with a ridiculous tandem setup in refrig condensing units. Torture.....but they still stand behind it replacing the disaster with a different setup.
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I'm glad it worked out for you palonej I feel your frustration too and your safety concern it's good that it didn't turn out with an injury.
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Hey, don't blame Diana. This is mostly Umarex. We just concluded a custom order which Diana put together for us on the Dianawerk Collective. Model 52 in .25 with kit installed at Vortek. Diana was more than accommodating when worked with directly. (Uncountable thanks to Whitefang and Tom Gore for pulling this off!). Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. So, you won't bUY A 350? Maybe a Xisco 28 copy? Good luck getting any support from Chinese vendors, Mike Mellick aside, and only because, unlike UmarexUSA, Mike gives a rat's behind.
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
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They ALREADY have our money ... so whats the worry from them ??? ( Don't debate that statement PLEASE ) It was said with great sarcasm !
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
'Nuff said. ;)
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
If you didn't ask anything from them then I can see how they wouldn't see a need to reply. Sure, that would be the courteous thing to do but in the world of business, time is money and thank you for alerting us to this issue...
More importantly, when do you get this beast back in your hands? I've got an HMO piston that I need to install in my 54, maybe seeing your results will persuade me to get it done!
Clark
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
If you didn't ask anything from them then I can see how they wouldn't see a need to reply. Sure, that would be the courteous thing to do but in the world of business, time is money and thank you for alerting us to this issue...
More importantly, when do you get this beast back in your hands? I've got an HMO piston that I need to install in my 54, maybe seeing your results will persuade me to get it done!
Clark
Joe should have it back in hand Friday - 16th
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
If you didn't ask anything from them then I can see how they wouldn't see a need to reply. Sure, that would be the courteous thing to do but in the world of business, time is money and thank you for alerting us to this issue...
More importantly, when do you get this beast back in your hands? I've got an HMO piston that I need to install in my 54, maybe seeing your results will persuade me to get it done!
Clark
Hey Clark. When I stated I wanted nothing from them I was speaking of a free repair or parts. I asked for a response to my concerns and was blown off by Umarex and ignored by Diana.
Rifle will be back Friday!! Can't wait and will let you know how she behaves.
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Sent all pertinent info, including pics, links and responses directly to Diana over 10 days ago Red. Clearly stating I wanted nothing from them. Only to inform them of a rather dangerous issue that seems to come up quite a bit lately. I sent 3 links from the GTA directly related to this exact issue......and have heard nothing in return.
A little interest shown might've been nice.
If you didn't ask anything from them then I can see how they wouldn't see a need to reply. Sure, that would be the courteous thing to do but in the world of business, time is money and thank you for alerting us to this issue...
More importantly, when do you get this beast back in your hands? I've got an HMO piston that I need to install in my 54, maybe seeing your results will persuade me to get it done!
Clark
Hey Clark. When I stated I wanted nothing from them I was speaking of a free repair or parts. I asked for a response to my concerns and was blown off by Umarex and ignored by Diana.
Rifle will be back Friday!! Can't wait and will let you know how she behaves.
As a proud owner of 2 Diana's I can safely state the lack of response from both the distributor and manufacturer is a total disappointment Quality control and quality assurance are both sadly lacking in this instance. To be clear when equipment malfunction creates a safety issue all concerned parties should respond in a positive manner especially in today's litigious world. The piston rod breaking on a magnum springer resulting in an unexpected and unwanted manner is a definite liability for all parties involved not to mention the strong possibility of personal injury to yourself or others >:( :o
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Couldn't agree more Don.
On the other hand, I e mailed Weihrauch after seeing how well built the 98 is. I sent a couple of group pics....to show off a little!!!! Didn't ask for anything from them either. Couple of days later I got this response and they're sending me a hat.
Little bit of a difference no??? I thought this was pretty cool and good biz practice.
Dear Mr. Palone,
we refer to your e-mail of 25.07.2013 an have read with interest that you own one of our mod. HW 98.
Thank you very much for your compliments. We always try to offer our customers the best possible quality and craftmanship "made in Germany".
We wish you good shooting success.
Best regards,
Hans-H. Weihrauch
Weihrauch & Weihrauch Sport GmbH & Co.KG
Industriestr. 13, 97638 Mellrichstadt
Handelsregister: HRA 8080 AG Schweinfurt
Komplementär: Weihrauch& Weihrauch Sport Verwaltungs GmbH
(HRB 3366 AG Schweinfurt)
Geschäftsführer: Hans-Hermann Weihrauch, Stefan Weihrauch
_____________________________________________________________________________
_
Disclaimer:
Über das Internet versandte eMails können bekanntlich unter fremdem Namen
erstellt werden, oder ihr Inhalt kann verändert werden. Aus diesem Grund sind
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Joe, that is too cool! 8) And, THAT is what I look for in a company that's potentially going to get my hard earned bucks. ;) Is HW perfect? Nothing manufactured is, so that's why responsiveness and good service matter. I like my Diana, but my next rifle is VERY likely to be an HW. ;D
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I hear ya man.
I'm wanting a Mod. 48 in .177 pretty bad, but am really thinking about the HW98 instead.
If I buy a brand new .177 it will probably be a HW98 or Walther LGV. Joes experience has sort of soured me on new Diana purchases.
I'll wait for one to come up on the secondary market, or a refurb at a decent discount might trip my buy impulse.
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Joe, that is too cool! 8) And, THAT is what I look for in a company that's potentially going to get my hard earned bucks. ;) Is HW perfect? Nothing manufactured is, so that's why responsiveness and good service matter. I like my Diana, but my next rifle is VERY likely to be an HW. ;D
How true Steve!! I will usually send an e mail after I make an order to the company to give them some feed back. I had a question for Vortek this Saturday. I also sent some good feed back. Got this in a couple of hours! Might not seem like a big deal, but means a lot to me and I look forward to doing more business with companies like this. PA is also great in this regard.
Hi Joe,
Thank you for the excellent feed back regarding your Sucessful Tune!
This is good news, and can be shared around the World with others with the same interest. You can find the avenue to do so on the review page of each PG2 tune kit on our site. Heres the one for Diana48/52/46/56, etc:
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Airgun-Tuning-Kits-spring%20tar-spring-piston%20airgun-airgun%20lube?product_id=139 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Airgun-Tuning-Kits-spring%20tar-spring-piston%20airgun-airgun%20lube?product_id=139)
~HW97 FT full powr PG2 tune kit:
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Airgun-Tuning-Kits-spring%20tar-spring-piston%20airgun-airgun%20lube/HW97PG2-15 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Airgun-Tuning-Kits-spring%20tar-spring-piston%20airgun-airgun%20lube/HW97PG2-15)
Cheers, shoot safe!
Vortek Products
Confidentiality Note: This electronic message contains information, which may be confidential, legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, printing or any other use of, or any action in reliance on, the contents of this electronic message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply and destroy the original message. VORTEK
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Update!!!!
Seems Diana sent my e mail to Umarex. I got a response yesterday! I sent an e mail back and will keep you guys updated. The person who reached out to me sounds like a concerned and helpful person. Nothing like my last phone call with them!!
Hoping for the best!
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Joe, this whole thing is very strange. I would have expected Umarex to contact Diana and say "we have a problem" not the other way around. Now that word from above has been received at Umarex maybe they will show more interest, I'm not sure what they can do at this point though. If I was Diana I'd want that broken piston for analysis.
Tom
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That, in a nut shell, is ALL I was asking from them Tom. I did not have a problem accruing all shipping, parts and labor costs. Just wanted to see a little concern and proper action on someone's part. As far as I can tell Diana just forwarded the e mail to Umarex with no instruction on what's to be done. Most of all....this is a safety issue.
We'll see and I will keep all updated.
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Update!!!!
Seems Diana sent my e mail to Umarex. I got a response yesterday! I sent an e mail back and will keep you guys updated. The person who reached out to me sounds like a concerned and helpful person. Nothing like my last phone call with them!!
Hoping for the best!
Joe,
The BROKEN piston is in the side pouch of rifle case ... If they want it back ? ya got it ;)
PS. Going to be curious on what you think of the Re-tune with the o-ring piston on board ??? ... tho won't get a chance to read or hear a thing being down at the Western States FT match in Morro Bay. Be back around a puter @ Monday night / Tuesday.
Hope it's all well and Diana / Umarex give some sort of satisfaction ;D
Regards,
Scott
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Thanks so much for everything Scott!!
And good luck bro!!! Let us know how it goes and lots of pics!!!
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Message to Umarex from Germany in the tone of 'Meine gott you schweinehunde, was ist los'?
At least Umarex acts concerned after getting a rock dropped on them. Hopefully there is some recognition now, that there may be potential for trouble in the design.
By doing what you did, and being persistent about it, you have done all Diana owners and prospective purchasers, a service Joe. Thanks man.
This development may serve to moderate the hard feelings towards Diana and Umarex that have developed out of your, up to this point, fruitless dealings with them.
I know that I myself, will base my attitude towards future purchases of NEW Diana products on how this scenario ultimately plays out.
Once again, two thumbs up to you Joe, for sticking it out and finally getting some response/action out of them.
Hey, and you too Scott. Don't think that your prompt participation, mechanical wizardry, and technological contribution to this thread have gone unnoticed.
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Very well put Charles!!! It seems that I found someone from Umarex that finally listened!! What a great dude to deal with!! Please check out our correspondence.
The rifle is being delivered today.....face stuck to window once again!!!
Really glad that this worked out.
First e mail to Diana is the bottom.
No prob Joe and you have a great weekend !
From: Joe Palone [mailto:palonej513@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:23 PM
To: Glenn Seiter
Subject: Re: Brand new 56 failure
Will do Glenn and thank you for the help!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Glenn Seiter <glenn@umarexusa.com> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Please fill out the attached form and send along with the piston. On the form just briefly state that we talked about the broken piston and that I agreed to replace the piston and that I’d send a shirt along for you…I don’t think we have any hats but I’ll search. It’s great to hear that you are very pleased with the rifle! The RWS/Diana guns are very accurate and fun to shoot.
Thanks,
Glenn
From: Joe Palone [mailto:palonej513@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:05 PM
To: Glenn Seiter
Subject: Re: Brand new 56 failure
This is all I've been asking for Glenn!!!! Tell you what, since you are obviously feeling generous!!! I'll send the piston back, my cost, take a new piston AND.....how about a hat and T shirt for my psychological well being???? Lol
The rifle will be here Friday so I'll get the piston out to you soon as it shows. Need mailing address.
Thanks Glenn.
One other thing.....this rifle is absolutely awesome!!! Only air rifle I ever shot that will print groups at 100 yards with JSB Heavies!! What a tack driver she is!!!
Thanks
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Glenn Seiter <glenn@umarexusa.com> wrote:
Hey Joe,
I see…yes a piston w/broken stem will definitely wreak havoc. If you’ll send the piston then we could either replace it with another piston or if you’d prefer the Shooters Kit then I could send that. I want to make certain that you are happy with our product.
Thanks,
Glenn
From: Joe Palone [mailto:palonej513@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:45 PM
To: Glenn Seiter
Subject: Re: Brand new 56 failure
Hey Glenn!
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly!
I too thought maybe a pellet or debris was jammed somewhere and not allowing lock up, but no.
Please click on this link as their are pics of the problem bro. Much easier to understand if the thread is at least skimmed thru.
The rifle is on the way back and the tuner sent me the broken piston. If you'd like, I'll send it to you.
Please check this out.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50444.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50444.0)
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Glenn Seiter <glenn@umarexusa.com> wrote:
Hi Joe,
First of all I do apologize that you were not able to have a conversation with one of my staff in a manner that came across in a professional manner. We have very few piston failures and given the fact that I’m the guy ordering parts from Germany it would be obvious to me if it was a frequently used part. Of course there are thousands of Diana rifles out there and many with some age on them so there are going to be a certain % experience this problem. I asked a couple of my gunsmiths how frequently they have to replace a piston and each of them could only remember one each over the past 5 or 6 months. In regards to the situation where you had to depress the bear trap safety and ride the cocking lever back down…I’m wondering if the gun was ever fully cocked? I’ve seen numerous times when a person thought their gun was cocked but it really needed another good tug in order for the gun to sear up. I’ve decocked my Model 52 many times just as you had done with your Model 56 by riding down the cocking lever. I have also seen situations where there was a piece of debris in the trigger group which resulted in the gun not wanting to sear up. I’ve taken these guns and given them a couple good pulls on the cocking handle at its most rearward point and was able to get them to sear up and then not experience the problem again. I can send you an RWS Cleaning Kit which retails for around $50 if that would help resolve the issue. Just let me know your thoughts and we’ll figure something out.
Take care,
Glenn
From: Joe Palone [mailto:palonej513@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 10:49 AM
To: Glenn Seiter
Subject: Re: Brand new 56 failure
Hey Glenn,
I appreciate you getting back to me bro.
Hopefully you checked out the link in the previous e mail. This will explain the problem, and what was done to resolve it, much better than I am able to.
I e mailed Umarex and got a response a couple of days later from one of your guys asking me to call him. At this time the rifle had already been shipped to a pro tuner, same guy that installed the Vortek kit.
I called and was literally blown off. Wouldn't even listen to what I had to say. ALL I was asking was if this is a recurring problem and is there a fix from the factory or Umarex?? He kept telling me to ship the rifle to you. NOT why I was calling. Tried explaining this, but he blew me off and e mailed me a return form.
This is the not the first piston failure in the past couple of months.......on the GTA forum, that I know of.
The only reason I reached out to Diana and you is this is a safety issue. We, my kids and I, were plinking in the yard and I cocked the 56. Went to close cocking lever and there was tremendous pressure on the way back to the closed position. I held cocking lever firmly and released bear trap and fought it closed. My issue is what would have happened if it happened with an inexperienced shooter?? If bear trap button was forced to released there could have been serious injury.
The gun only shoots 10.3 gr ammo and is very well maintained. This seems like a very serious failure on a 5 month old gun.
I have paid all shipping and repair costs, just under $350, and am not looking for anything for nothing. Just some info Glenn. I'm 54 and an avid air gunner. I was treated like a 12 year old with a BB gun. Not cool.
Sorry for rambling but got really aggravated at the way I was treated on the phone.
Please open the link and just skim through it and tell me what you think and if you can do anything.
Again, thanks for the response bro.
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2013, at 8:25 AM, Glenn Seiter <glenn@umarexusa.com> wrote:
Hey Joe,
This morning I just received your email which was forwarded from Diana in Germany. If you could please provide an update on where you are with getting the 56 TH back to a properly functioning manner it would be appreciated. I would be more than happy to have whatever repairs are necessary be taken care of for you here in our facility. I look forward to your reply and will try to make things right with you.
Thanks,
Glenn
Umarex USA
Von: Joe Palone [mailto:palonej513@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Montag, 29. Juli 2013 22:11
An: VL_k92-Info
Betreff: Brand new 56 failure
Hello,
My name is Joe Palone and I purchased a new 56 TH from Air Guns of Arizona in Feb of this year. What as absolute dream this gun was. Extremely accurate, powerful and fun!!
I only shot JSB 10.3 domes out of her. Had a Vortek PG2 kit installed because she started losing power. Factory spring fatigued. After kit install she was even better.....for 2 weeks. Please see the link for the problem.
This is the second 56 I know of with this problem.
I was able to locate a piston and am paying a pro tuner to install it.
Is this normal??? AOA said there was nothing they could do for me and it was probably my fault. How???
Is there anything you guys can do??
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50444.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50444.0)
Thank you for anything you can do in advance.
Joe
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Good news Joe. It seems when Diana speaks, Umarex listens. The way it should be. Next time, hopefully there is not, be sure to let them know that those other Germans give away hats just for saying hello :)
\
Tom
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Oh my God!! Takes a lot for me to lose my patience. This did it. Got the rifle back today and the stock is destroyed. Ugh. UPS was supposed to get a signature before leaving the package. We were home and no one rang the bell.....they just left it at the front door.
Opened it up and saw this. Ugh
Naturally Umarex does not have a stock.
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That looks nasty Joe ,UPS is getting worse I'm using FED-X from now on. Sorry to see that .
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I was so pumped to get it back Daniel. Ugh
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Holy cow man.................. >:(
Joe, you haven't walked under any ladders recently, or seen an abundance of black cats running across your path have you?
I got 2 54s my friend, you want, I will peel the stock off of one and send it to you to get yours up, running, and broken in, until you can score a replacement. They're standard 54s, not the TH models, but still.
That's just gut wrenching, simply infuriating after all the rigamarole.
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I'll tell ya Charles....so far this summer I have slipped off the top of a walk in freezer and gave myself 10 stitches, and opened up my temporal artery, right next to my eye. That was fun. I've gotten stung by 3 very angry yellow jackets on my right wrist.....then Found out I'm allergic. Ugh. My arm looked like an over inflated water balloon!!! More fun! This is actually pretty minor, but still quite annoying!
Thanks so much for your offer bro! I'll let you know what happens when Glenn from Umarex finds out the particulars for a replacement. Real good guy over there man. Got right back to me today. Impressed.
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Cool, cool.
Sounds like someone at Umarex woke up to, or was firmly directed to recognize the fact that without customers, they got no cash flow.
Glenn sounds like the new 'GO TO GUY' on Diana product service eh?
Hopefully they can drum up a stock for you in short order.
I got a new version with the full wraparound checkered panel in front of the trigger guard, and the earlier version from a TO1 rifle that is smooth bottomed from guard to tip. Send up a smoke signal, and I will get a relief package headin your way.
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He is a pleasure to deal with bro!!
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Wow,
What a freakin' nightmare.
My heart goes out to you Joe.
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You had to see my face when I opened the box Ron. The blonde gave me a hug...and promised not to swing for the fences next time I deserve a frying pan wallop!! So I got that goin for me!!
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Really sorry to hear about the stock. I hope Umarex can get you another in short order.
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It's a shame that Umarex gets a strike for what may be the fault of shipping abuse. Now I don't know what caused it, by the pic, but looking at the cracks, I wonder if washer and pressure, as well as the grain is a 50/50, to me, based on the grain quality of the beech. But it looks dirty to me, (in the pic), so I may be mistaken. Mighta been tightened to the limit, and with some bumps along the road,,,,the wood finally cut loose. Dunno.
I will say that reading the "back and forth" communications from Glenn, is that HE has taken a C/S beating, and as such, a positive personal interest, and it appears that he's trying to do backbends, to do whatever He and Umarex can to make it right. That's about all he can do.
I grinned about the "karma". Folks of the Fold...I believe...
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SMH.....sorry to hear it Joe..
Give it some time and all will be well again.
Hang in there Brother!
Petey.
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Really sorry to hear about the stock. I hope Umarex can get you another in short order.
Thanks Tom!! Spoke to Glenn already and he'll have info for me Monday. Stock will most likely have to come from Germany.
SMH.....sorry to hear it Joe..
Give it some time and all will be well again.
Hang in there Brother!
Petey.
Thanks Petey. I'm not giving up now!!! Glenn at Umarex is on it already!!
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Oh my God!! Takes a lot for me to lose my patience. This did it. Got the rifle back today and the stock is destroyed. Ugh. UPS was supposed to get a signature before leaving the package. We were home and no one rang the bell.....they just left it at the front door.
Opened it up and saw this. Ugh
Naturally Umarex does not have a stock.
joe, if that was my gun id get some real good wood glue, spread the crack open and put a generous supply of glue in the crack. and while it was still uncured id get some brass pins and use a drill bit that is a snug fit for the pins. bore down on the top side and make sure your almost all the way to the botton , then drive the braas pins down all the way . id use about 5 pins along the crack area . I have 2 double barel 12 gauges that are all fixed like that and they are holding real good . my gunsmith did the first gun for me and I did the last gun as I bought them cheep with cracked wood . ive shot a lot of skeet with both guns. it was gonna break it should have by now. that's what id do till you get another stock. oh if you do that I forgot you need to clamp it snug till the glue dries like 24 hours
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I took the action out of the stock and will be gluing tomorrow Rob!!! Didn't think of the pins tho. Thanks bro!! Will let you know how it works out. Dying to shoot her!!
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:o It seems lately if it wasn't for bad luck you wouldn't have any be where guns and injuries are concerned Hang in there it has to get better soon
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Thanks Don!! I'm just praying it doesn't get worse bro!!!
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Robert is right on with the brass pins Joe.
That is how I attach knife scales when I make them, and the pins plus epoxy really holds up well to abuse.
A repair along those lines will in all likelihood outlast the rifle.
Use GOOD wood glue, or epoxy along the lines of Devcon 2 Ton. Devcon 2 Ton will set up pretty stiff within 30 minutes, but there is some out there that is a longer setting formula if you can find it. Titebond lll wood glue will afford you like 10 minutes of work time and will set up pretty hard in an hour, it's good stuff.
Still leave it clamped up for a day to be sure it cures out all the way.
A shame that you're all the way over in Joizey, I got everything required right here in the shop. We could transverse drill the crack and put some neat mosaic pins in it for extra support and the accuracy benefits of BLING!!
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Yep....just glue it with regular wood glue. The glued joint will be stronger than any of it's surrounding material, so there is no need for anything additional.
Mike
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Definitely sounds like a plan Chuck!!!
It's funny....worked for American Standard for 5 years and used to do 3 weeks on and one off in Tiffin Ohio. Right next to Findley. I used to drive, bout 9 - 10 hours, and loved that town. Used to be a GE and AS plants right next to each other. Together they employed around 9,000 people. Both closed now.
Shame, I could've stopped by!!!
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You probably came across Pennsylvania on I-80 right?
I've been to Edison N.J. once. I went to NYC with a buddy from Edison, and saw just enough to know that I wanted to go back to Ohio.......... :o
I'm 2 hours south of Findlay, 15 miles or so above the I-75 and I-70 interchange.
We could have set up in the back field and shot out to 300 yards man!!
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Exactly!! Worked all day in Tiffin then would drive about 15 - 20 miles to Findley....great pool room with a bar and grill. Got tons of action in that room!!
I play pool in Edison and live about a half hour south right down Rte 1.
You didn't like the city bro?????
Chuck, I have 2 pool rooms, very large, in Manhattan that I handle all AC and refrig issues. Talk about torture!!!!! I take the Holland Tunnel to get home. It is 3/4 of a mile from one of the pool rooms on 4th Ave and East 11 St. It has taken me over 2 hours to get there bro. The first wonderful pic is about half way there. How could you not love this place??? Second is inside the tunnel. These are the times I am on the GTA the most!!! What else do you do??? The best part???? People still blow their horns!! Ugh
I miss Tiffin!!!
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Best wood glue I've ever used, even stronger than Titebond.
http://www.gorillatough.com/ (http://www.gorillatough.com/)
It literally IS stronger than the wood,... but you MUST clamp this stuff, as it foams/grows while drying.
and if not clamped, it will push the crack apart.
When it IS clamped, the foaming/growing works to your advantage, as it "injects itself" into the pores of the wood.
I have used this stuff to rebuild the rotted/broken out corner of a large Cab-Over Camper, (where the lifting jacks are mounted).
It is the strongest corner of the whole camper.
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In Home Depot picking it up right now Ron. I have a 10 ball tourney at 7. Should be practicing, but I HAVE to try and repair this thing.
Thanks all!!
Need a bit of luck also. Never work with wood.....copper, sheet metal, black and galv piping no prob....but I gotta try.
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X2 on Gorilla glue. Cleans up easy too! Gotta luv technology!
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Before you apply this stuff, do a practice run with your clamping method to make sure it wont slip.
You do not have to clamp the living dog-do out of it,... just clamp it so that it is real good and snug.
You might even back up any clamping with a few zip-ties around the stock.
Now once you are ready, read the instructions.
The stuff is weird and you'll think it's crazy,.. but it uses water as a catalyst.
Yep,... you will take a q-tip, cloth, or something to get the inside of the crack wet/moist... not dripping wet, but good and moist/wet.
Then apply the glue. use a toothpick or something similar to get it down into the crack as much as possible but no need to over-do it. just a thin coating kind of like honey on toast. You'll have plenty of working time before it starts to foam,... (5-10 minutes or so, maybe more), so don't worry.
clamp / strap / wrap/ zip-tie or whatever your method is, and let it sit overnight.
There WILL be some foamed dried glue that seeps out. don't worry about that,.... it's a good thing. that tells you the stuff has worked, and has injected itself into every nook and cranny. It will look sort of like a resin based expanding foam used in packaging delicate parts.
You can clean it up afterwards with a razor blade no problem.
Hey,... look at the Good Side,....
Now you'll have a good solid "Beater stock" you can slap onto the action anytime you might be out carrying it, where it might get dinged up.
Heck at that point have some fun with it and do some sort camo job, maybe a nice dip job,.... or go wild and paint it up like a Neon Zebra ! LOL!
Here's some pretty wild looking options...
http://www.splashgraphicswtp.com/Samples-sort.asp?catloc=Guns&offset=0 (http://www.splashgraphicswtp.com/Samples-sort.asp?catloc=Guns&offset=0)
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Rather than state my opinion on the matter.....here is a link to a real test.
http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf (http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf)
Strength aside......gorilla glue has the distinction of being the most difficult glue to manage for a project that you want to maintain a previous finish. The foaming cannot be managed and will definitely contaminate the surrounding surface more than any other glue that could be chosen.
Mike
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Thanks Ron!! Bought 2 small bar clamps and have thousands of wire ties. I'm goin in!!
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Thanks Ron!! Bought 2 small bar clamps and have thousands of wire ties. I'm goin in!!
::) :P Good luck in new and uncharted territory sometimes it is a good thing to leave your comfort zone ;D :o
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Thanks Ron!! Bought 2 small bar clamps and have thousands of wire ties. I'm goin in!!
Hahaha,
We'll provide you with the "cover-fire" till it's back up and runnin' LOL.
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/Gunner.gif)
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Hey Joe, I'm just getting caught up on this thread, and all I can say is your 'luck' seems worse than mine! :( Man, I'm so sorry to hear about your latest issue with that stock. Sounds like Ace Ventura delivered that package! ::) I am glad to hear that Umarex is finally stepping up to the plate on the piston, though. Good luck with the stock repair! I agree with the others on Gorilla Glue. I have used this stuff, and it is definitely stronger than the wood. And as has been suggested, firm clamping is a must. Doesn't have to be crushing the wood, you just don't want it to slip, as the glue will exert pressure as it expands. Best of luck, and looking forward to your results! 8)
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Well this is about the best I can do. Really hoping!!
Thanks for everyone's help!!
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Well this is about the best I can do. Really hoping!!
Thanks for everyone's help!!
Wow! That looks like they had to try to break that stock. Maybe they backed one of their trucks over it or threw it out of the plane over NJ.
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I'm going with the plane scenario Tom!! The thing that aggravated me was Scott sent it "signature required" and it was left at the door without the driver ringing the bell. Weird.
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I'm going with the plane scenario Tom!! The thing that aggravated me was Scott sent it "signature required" and it was left at the door without the driver ringing the bell. Weird.
That's not unusual at all for UPS around here. I recently sent out a cnc control for a cleaning, and it came back with signature required. It had a forklift fork driven through half of the box....... and it was left without any signature with the hole in the box was backed against my garage door. I called to make a claim and they said there was nothing they could do since I didn't request the claim with the driver present. Although it had been bent up, luckily, it was still functioning.
We used to get pallets of stain and finish at my cabinet shop that had been mutilated by UPS freight.....and they would dump out the leaking cans, and re-shrink wrap the pallet with black shrink wrap so we couldn't tell it was damaged at first sight. Once they had motored away, it was our problem.
Mike
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That looks like a break that was just waiting to happen from "strong arm" fastener overstressed, at the washer, against the steel. It cut loose "wide open". I wouldn't show that pic to Umarex.
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Don't think so Mike. The box was a mess. I tried to get a pic of what looks like a bad dent. Hope you can see it. Looks like the box was dropped and landed right in the middle on an edge or something.
Not sending pic to Umarex because this isn't there prob. They, Glenn, has been a pleasure to deal with.
The dent is about an inch below the duct tie.
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I have a friend who makes custom guitars from very fancy wood. I remember when he bought a van load of beautiful wood from a retiring old timer. The wood was driven from Northern CA to Southern CA in one day. When they were unloading wood on arrival it all started splitting, sounded like a bowl of Rice Crispys. Lots of choice word to say the least. The point is that extreme changes in humidity a temperature can cause havoc. The bolt may be a stress point and the parcel may have been miss handled but I'd be interest to track the package to see where it been along he route.
Nice repair Joe, now go out and make some money (win) so we can continue to be entertained in the manner we've become accustomed.
Tom
Well, posted at the same time. The box damage explains a lot!
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I think this gun is Haunted.
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On my way Tom!! I'll get about an hour of practice time. I'll be able to focus a bit now because I at least gave it a shot. Really want to put some lead down this girl. Spoke to my cue maker and he agreed on the procedure everyone suggested.
Haunted rifle Ron........more like haunted owner!! Hopefully this excorcism has cast out the demons!!
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50/50 looking at the pic. If it was that harsh, the beech dent would show "white" separation from the stain like a "crack".(IMO), since beech is a poor wood to take stain deeply.
I'm surprised you didn't post a pic of the box that you recieved ASAP. That would be my C.Y.A. action, immediately; first and foremost, if I suspected shipping abuse.
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Dude that is one very nasty set of cracks in the stock, good luck with the fix . try to remember if the UPS guy was even partially responsible for the damage it will be a strong denial story that he has rehearsed many times already. Something like "Sir that package was in pristine condition when it was delivered to your residence. If it is the same guy all the time no Christmas tip for him!!!
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Geesh, that was way worse than I ascertained from the first pictures. it looks like someone smacked the nose of that stock with a hatchet.......... :'(
I wonder if your package was on that UPS plane that went down in Alabama. ???
My bet is on UPS mangling it, due to the clandestine drop off. That old boy knew exactly what he was doing, and that was to screw you out of your opportunity to file a damage claim on the package.
I'd find his truck sitting somewhere and slap a 'I HEART FedEx' sticker on the back of it!! Or maybe one on his forehead would be better...... >:(
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I'd find his truck sitting somewhere and slap a 'I HEART FedEx' sticker on the back of it!! Or maybe one on his forehead would be better...... >:(
ROFLMBO! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Been reading. Ouch Joe. Good luck with the repair. The break didn't look that bad until I saw the following pictures, and I'll give you credit for being a trooper and taking a stab at repairing it. Hate to say it, but you might end up having a difficult time getting a decent finish with that kind of damage repair. My thoughts were also that the stock screw was over tightened, and created the stress that allowed dropping to set off the major cracking. Not much matter, since the shipper won't do much about it unless the delivery was insured. Good luck.
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I've heard it mentioned a couple of times in this thread, about the stock screw tension that is.
Is there a value for the tension of the action screws on a 54?
I tighten mine down until there is no apparent side to side wobble from the synthetic spacer washers under the sleds unless you physically push it to get it to flex a bit. Is this correct, or not? I don't tighten it to the point that the spacers are completely compressed, or go solid for all intents and purposes. I figured that they are there for a reason, as isolators, and leave a bit of a squish factor in them when Loctiting and tightening the action into the stock.
This is done purely seat of the pants, as in 'that feels about right'. I do know that if left a smidge looser, the action tends to have a bit of side to side wobble in the stock.
What thinks the membership??
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I've heard it mentioned a couple of times in this thread, about the stock screw tension that is.
Is there a value for the tension of the action screws on a 54?
I tighten mine down until there is no apparent side to side wobble from the synthetic spacer washers under the sleds unless you physically push it to get it to flex a bit. Is this correct, or not? I don't tighten it to the point that the spacers are completely compressed, or go solid for all intents and purposes. I figured that they are there for a reason, as isolators, and leave a bit of a squish factor in them when Loctiting and tightening the action into the stock.
This is done purely seat of the pants, as in 'that feels about right'. I do know that if left a smidge looser, the action tends to have a bit of side to side wobble in the stock.
What thinks the membership??
I think thats about as good a description of how I tighten stock bolts as any. Snug em down to hold firmly, and no more. I really haven't found any reliable torque specs, and doubt there are many available. Gorilla grip on the screwdriver=too much :P
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I may be going out on a limb here, and assuming too much,...
But, considering the obvious desire for this gun to be reworked CORRECTLY, without it having ANY more issues, (and therefore accrued additional costs),... and considering the level of experience as well as the history of quality workmanship of the man who tightened that screw before it was shipped,... and considering the box was dropped off damaged, and without the required signature,... I'm betting that the screw was not overtightened... I Highly Doubt there was any gorilla gripping screwdrivers going on here.
Is it possible that it WAS a stress point ??... Sure it is.
Naturally there is SOME "load" there simply because it IS the attach point between stock and action.
But that would have been the case no matter what. As well as, it is quite obvious that the cracks did not ORIGINATE from the point of the screw hole.... they simply ran right through the screw hole.
For the wood to have shattered as badly as it did, that is purely the result of it being dropped or crushed during the shipping.
Pics of the box, the stock, and a request for an explanation about WHY the box was left UNsigned for,... should be sent to the shipper. This is totally on them.
I'd even lay a little pressure on them by contacting the local district/regional management for an answer.
either way,...
My money says this damage did not originate, by that screw being overtightened.
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I may be going out on a limb here, and assuming too much,...
But, considering the obvious desire for this gun to be reworked CORRECTLY, without it having ANY more issues, (and therefore accrued additional costs),... and considering the level of experience as well as the history of quality workmanship of the man who tightened that screw before it was shipped,... and considering the box was dropped off damaged, and without the required signature,... I'm betting that the screw was not overtightened... I Highly Doubt there was any gorilla gripping screwdrivers going on here.
Is it possible that it WAS a stress point ??... Sure it is.
Naturally there is SOME "load" there simply because it IS the attach point between stock and action.
But that would have been the case no matter what. As well as, it is quite obvious that the cracks did not ORIGINATE from the point of the screw hole.... they simply ran right through the screw hole.
For the wood to have shattered as badly as it did, that is purely the result of it being dropped or crushed during the shipping.
Pics of the box, the stock, and a request for an explanation about WHY the box was left UNsigned for,... should be sent to the shipper. This is totally on them.
I'd even lay a little pressure on them by contacting the local district/regional management for an answer.
either way,...
My money says this damage did not originate, by that screw being overtightened.
+1 ;)
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I don't think the torque of the screw had anything to do with it. It's clear by the extent of the damage that the stock would have been badly damaged even if the screw was not present.
I would be surprised if any satisfaction is obtained from UPS. The box has to be unopened and untouched for anyone to even begin the claim process......at least that has been my experience.
Mike
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Just for the sake of clarity-
When I asked my question about action screw tightness, I was in no way implying that such was the case with Joes rifle, and did not in any way intend to cast an aspersion on Scott, or his practices.
I simply did not know if you fine folks knew something about 54 action screw specs that I didn't, and figured it was as good a time as any to ask... ;D
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Wasn't you Chuck. Another member posted about that. Why???? Who knows???
I trust Scott implicitly. Period. Here, as requested, is a pic of the box. When rifle is laid next to box, the spot where the dent sits is spot on with the damaged box.
On a better note, the rifle is spitting JSB Heavies quite nicely!!! Stock seems to be holding up!!!
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Ok. She might look a little like a Frankenstein experiment.......but she held together for about 250 rounds.....and she is spitting lead where you aim her!! Thank God!!!!! And Scott!!
6 shot group at 30 yards, sitting with a front bag after sighting in. JSB Heavies.
I am very happy with the outcome. Wish none of it happened, but boy does this rifle shoot sweet!!
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Nice shooting Joe! ;D
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Thanks Steve!! Feels really good to see results like that after all it went thru!!!
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;D Well I guess a custom walnut stock or maybe a nice ebony and walnut laminate would work well on that beauty ;D ;D 8)
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Don!! If you only look at her from the top or the left side she looks fine!!
And when a rifle shoots like this.....nothing else matters!!!
100 yards 10 shots each target. What a rifle!!!
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awesome groups when you going to try 150 yds? ;D Just kidding really nice and it really is a shame that the UPS clown show caused that much damage
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Glad you got her shootin' again, Joe. Looks like Scott did his job very well. The 100 yd groups are outstanding, IMO.
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That's impressive.
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Thanks Mike!!
Hey Tom. I am impressed each time he does his magic.....especially this time. Uncharted territory. She's shooting just as good if not better than before!!
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Nice shooting glad you have it up and shooting again. UPS should be able to get you a new stock depends on how much insurance was applied. I got 150 dollars out of them years ago when my gun was sent to wrong address received it 1 1/2 week later and opened it up tried to cock it barrel flew open , already cocked man I was mad but UPS made it good.
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Joe, those 100 yd groups are amazing! There are powder burners that would be green with envy over those groups! ;) Nice shooting! ;D
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You got her back up and running in spectacular fashion Joe, that's a whale of a display on those 100Yd targets man.. ;D
Thank the watchful presence of the Air Gods that nothing got damaged in the action, or bolluxed the recoil sleds up when the UPS drones were doing pick and rolls with your package.
That UPS driver still gets my goat man, him and his tricksy drop off tactics >:(
I wonder if he likes to fish, Fredo liked to fish.................... ???
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I'd like to take a little row boat ride with him Chuck!!!
Good news from Glenn at Umarex. He contacted Diana in Germany and found out all pertinent info for me!! This guy is just awesome to deal with!! Funny and friendly dude.
New stock is less than I thought.......but will take 60 days to get. And to quote Glenn....I can deal with a Frankenstein 56 if she shoots like that!!
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Fed-X ... not UPS :P
been gone for 4 days ... what can I say about ship damage other than ugg :P
Nice shooting !!!
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Nice work on the rifle!!! Total monster Scott!!! Sounds and feels awesome!!! Even though she's a bit scarred up!!
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You might have to name your Diana, "Scarface" ;D ;D
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LMBO!! It's MUCH worse than that Larry!!! Frankenstein's daughter is more like it!!! But she shoots straight bro!! Wow! Scott does it again!!
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;D My 460 is shooting so good I am going to save the Vortech kit for later when the spring breaks as long as the piston rod doesn't break I'll be ok
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anybody have the contact info for the guy making the HMO pistons?
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Wanted to update you all on what's been happening since this mess began.
Received rifle from Scott and she was better than ever......for around 250 rounds. While shooting the other day, cocking lever comes half way down and will go no further. NO!!!!
Nothing jammed, bent or easily seen wrong. Ugh.
Fed up at this point. Figured I just got a possessed rifle and decided I would just buy another one. Went to the AOA site and was shocked when I saw an updated price of $929!!! Really????
Hmmmmmm. I decided to send Glenn from Umarex an e mail and asked him what my options were. This is his response. Can anyone ask for more????
Will keep everyone updated.
Hey Joe,
Please provide your complete physical address and I’ll generate a prepaid FedEx label so that we can get the rifle here and perform the necessary repairs. After I process the label you’ll receive a link from FedEx to where you can view/print the label. Take the packaged rifle to a FedEx location along w/label and they’ll get it headed to our facility. Please fill out the attached Return Form and send along w/rifle. Explain on the form that Glenn agreed to repair the rifle and don’t forget to mention about the Medium shirt.
Thanks,
Glenn
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:o That's really awesome good luck with the possession problems ;D
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You know a good priest Don????
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;D No can't provide a good reference but I'm rooting for you buddy
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;D My 460 is shooting so good I am going to save the Vortech kit for later when the spring breaks as long as the piston rod doesn't break I'll be ok
Good move Don. Don't forget where you stash it! ;)
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I have it in the box with all my growing AG tools ;D
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I like Glenn.
Tell him whenever he comes to So. Cal. the pizza and cold brews are on me.
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Wait a sec there Ron!!! You guys have pizza on that coast??? Come on bro!!!! If you aren't in the Northeast maybe you can call it pizza....like???
Glenn is coming here for some real pizza!!!
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What about the Chicagoland folk? Bet they'd have a question or 3. If Nonno was still kickin', he'd tell ya how we made the Cali Coaster grape and veggie growers what they are. They know how to make Good Pizzas. I kinda like some of the "Coastal" pies they came up with.
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I like the line about "don't forget to mention on the forum"
Just goes to show that the proper application of pressure can bring results.
100 clamoring voices apparently got their attention!!
Glenn is gaining some serious cool factor points through this ordeal, we need to organize a email campaign and get him promoted to head of Umarex USA.
Joe, that 56 is apparently possessed by a Poultryghost and should be buried at midnight during a full moon..... ???
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I'll tell ya Chuck, he is a real pleasure to deal with!! Especially with a PITA like me???
He is saying remind him about the T shirt so he remembers to send it to me. They are paying shipping both ways and will perform all necessary repairs free of charge!! Can't ask for more than that!! And a T shirt??? All this when I was willing to pay for it!
Super cool factor points!!!
And I'm not burying her just yet!! She shoots too darn good!!!
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I got ya.
I misread 'forum' when it said 'form'.
I need more coffee...............
Get that rifle over to the nearest cathedral, and get it exorcised man.
Wax it up real good before they sprinkle the holy water on it though man, play it safe!!! ;D
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At this point I'm willing to try ANYTHING bro!!!
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Let us know what they say it is. And I would not store that gun in close proximity to your cues were I you. ;)
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God forbid Feather!!!! The cues come to church every week with me!!!
All joking aside.....can't tell you how happy I am with the way Umarex is handling this issue. And again, I did not ask for anything free of charge! Makes it even better.
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FWIW, your experience has not been typical. A lot of squeak fetches the grease bucket, so to speak.
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;D +1 we all know that pressure properly and politely applied will most often get positive results , so when you measure total membership times potential lost sales Umarex woke up and smelled the coffee. PS don't forget to post the ultimate solution
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I tend to think the service that you are getting now has very little to do with any leverage that was applied.
I think the guy you are working with has probably always been a good customer service rep. I have difficulty believing that someone had to tell him to be nice to you because of any waves that have been created on this forum.
I don't know.
Mike
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I tend to think the service that you are getting now has very little to do with any leverage that was applied.
I think the guy you are working with has probably always been a good customer service rep. I have difficulty believing that someone had to tell him to be nice to you because of any waves that have been created on this forum.
I don't know.
Mike
I would definitely agree with you Mike. Glenn was helpful and friendly from the start.
I was NEVER a squeaky wheel looking for oil. I did however ask for a T shirt!! All I asked for was information. Glenn OFFERED a couple of solutions. I was just going to buy another one.....until I saw the price increase.....and was just going to chalk up a total loss. Stuff happens sometimes.
Very pleasantly surprised with the treatment I've received. Hoping it all works out because this rifle shoots like a dream!!
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Well then they need to promote Glenn to director of customer relations
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Well.....Glenn was good to his word and sent me a pre paid shipping lable to send my rifle to Umarex. They will repair the rifle free of charge!! Now the wait begins!!
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Well.....Glenn was good to his word and sent me a pre paid shipping lable to send my rifle to Umarex. They will repair the rifle free of charge!! Now the wait begins!!
Going to get that factory piston replaced one way or the other .... Darn this whole mess just not worthy big time :P
Hoping for the best Joe ;)
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I'm sure it will turn out fine Scott. Was ready to just bite the bullet and buy another one. Glenn offered a different option. Can't tell you what a pleasure he is to deal with!! I just shipped it. The wait will be a bit easier......the 97 arrives tomorrow bro!! Thanks Scott!!!
I started work at 5 this morn and just finished......I kinda doubt I'll be starting the truck tomorrow!!!
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Just heard on the news that Fedex , UPS, and USPS are all going on strike at 6pm tonight.
only thing left is Greyhound and the Pony Express.
man that not worthy
8)
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Just heard on the news that Fedex , UPS, and USPS are all going on strike at 6pm tonight.
only thing left is Greyhound and the Pony Express.
man that not worthy
8)
;D ;D ::) That's just plain mean picking on poor Joe that way "NOT" LOL
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I bet , yes I bet that when it comes back umarex puts it back bone stock. meaning all the extras you put in it are gone. and they will for liability purposes . I know of a gun that was heavily modded and was returned for a broken part. when it was returned it was totally bone stock . I could be wrong as I usually am but that gun was back stock
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Just heard on the news that Fedex , UPS, and USPS are all going on strike at 6pm tonight.
only thing left is Greyhound and the Pony Express.
man that not worthy
8)
Ummmmm Ron.......trying to concentrate here!!!!! Won my first 2 matches.....then read this!!!! Then I tracked it......for the 37th time today!!!! She's in Joisey!!! My wife got sick of watching me bounce off the walls and made me go play pool. Love that blonde!!!
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Consider yourself lucky, indeed! Prepaid shipping label? Is it Christmas already? I can't begin to tell how many tales I've heard where Umarex charged shipping for warranty repairs. This forum swings a lot of weight. Technically speaking, they don't have to do any repairs on that gun since it was opened and modded, voiding the warranty. Don't kid yourselves, this is a complementary service.
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It definitely is Feather. And the really cool thing????? He offered it. Very grateful!!!
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Just heard on the news that Fedex , UPS, and USPS are all going on strike at 6pm tonight.
only thing left is Greyhound and the Pony Express.
man that not worthy
8)
Ummmmm Ron.......trying to concentrate here!!!!! Won my first 2 matches.....then read this!!!! Then I tracked it......for the 37th time today!!!! She's in Joisey!!! My wife got sick of watching me bounce off the walls and made me go play pool. Love that blonde!!!
haha Bro,...
I just couldn't resist, had to stir the pot a little bit. (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/smileyvault-stirthepot.gif)
Glad it all seems to be working out.
So I'm picturing you at the pool hall with your buddies,...
You laptop on the tall table with at least 4 windows opened, (the GTA on one, your package tracking on another, and the Weather channel on the third)
You take a shot at the pool table, come back to your stool, take a sip of a cold brew, and hit "refresh" every 30 seconds.
any time your package moves, you use the forth window to check the traffic conditions in that area.
Your buddies at the other side of the pool table, calling out that it's your shot, and you feel bothered that you have to come away from the 'puter for another few minutes.
Hahahaha,... hang in there Bro,... The more you stare at it,... the faster it will come, ;D
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That's great news, Joe!
I'm smiling ear to ear for you, my friend. 8)
I'm hoping they leave that rifle alone and just pop a new stock on it and be done. That's all it really needs, right?
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Just heard on the news that Fedex , UPS, and USPS are all going on strike at 6pm tonight.
only thing left is Greyhound and the Pony Express.
man that not worthy
8)
Ummmmm Ron.......trying to concentrate here!!!!! Won my first 2 matches.....then read this!!!! Then I tracked it......for the 37th time today!!!! She's in Joisey!!! My wife got sick of watching me bounce off the walls and made me go play pool. Love that blonde!!!
haha Bro,...
I just couldn't resist, had to stir the pot a little bit. (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/smileyvault-stirthepot.gif)
Glad it all seems to be working out.
So I'm picturing you at the pool hall with your buddies,...
You laptop on the tall table with at least 4 windows opened, (the GTA on one, your package tracking on another, and the Weather channel on the third)
You take a shot at the pool table, come back to your stool, take a sip of a cold brew, and hit "refresh" every 30 seconds.
any time your package moves, you use the forth window to check the traffic conditions in that area.
Your buddies at the other side of the pool table, calling out that it's your shot, and you feel bothered that you have to come away from the 'puter for another few minutes.
Hahahaha,... hang in there Bro,... The more you stare at it,... the faster it will come, ;D
LMBO!!! Nope.....thank God for I phones Ron!!!! At least 3 GTA screens open at all times!!!
That's great news, Joe!
I'm smiling ear to ear for you, my friend. 8)
I'm hoping they leave that rifle alone and just pop a new stock on it and be done. That's all it really needs, right?
I wish Niko!!! The second session it just refused to cock. I was sick!!! Umarex is going to fix it......a new stock is just about $250. Take at least 2 months to get it. I got the old one back together so I'll wait to see how it is when I get the action back from Umarex the. Maybe order a new stock for it. This rifle is possessed!!
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I bet , yes I bet that when it comes back umarex puts it back bone stock. meaning all the extras you put in it are gone. and they will for liability purposes . I know of a gun that was heavily modded and was returned for a broken part. when it was returned it was totally bone stock . I could be wrong as I usually am but that gun was back stock
That is what Harley does when you send them a motor for a factory rebuild ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Little update. Got a package from Umarex today. Not only are they fixing the rifle, but they sent me a new piston and a T shirt!!
Too cool!!!
Greg rocks!!
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;D My 460 is shooting so good I am going to save the Vortech kit for later when the spring breaks as long as the piston rod doesn't break I'll be ok
I should have kept quiet about my 460 as you know shortly after I made this post the piston spring broke and was forced to install the Vortec spring kit. I didn't know that bad Juju could find you through the internet ;D ;D ;D
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Update!!!!
Received the rifle back last night.
She's healthy and happy slinging 10.3s at 925!!!! And hitting what I aim at!!!
Umarex, and Glenn, really stepped up!!!
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That's great news my friend, I'm glad to see the King is back at the castle and once again reasserting his dominance.
All in all, things came out good in the end, though it was looking rather grim at the beginning!!
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Thanks Chuck!! Glenn even sent an e mail to see if all was good! They repaired the rifle, sent me an extra piston and a T shirt!!
My Frankenstein stock is holding up, but I'm going to order a new one.
The beast is back!!
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Very good for you Joe,
It's been a rough road, but smoothing out now. Glad to see it. Now you have an unusual opportunity, that most would never consider...
... you can take your Franken-stock and reshape, hack, or play with it to do something wild. How many guys would ever have the nerve to try that on a D56 ? ! ? Hahaha
I say take it and run with it. How about something like a Evil-Wicked Pool Shark / Flaming Billards theme ? ? ?
;D ;D ;D
Here's a few idea's I pulled from the web just for fun....
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/poolsharksatthetable_zpsfd9c6887.jpg) (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/poolsharksatthetable2_zps0de4d3a5.jpg)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/PoolSharkattack_zps802535c8.jpg)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/flaming8ball_zpsc44e7441.jpg)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/shooting8ball_zps45f64e02.jpg)
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Hey Ron!!! I love the idea!!!
But am I the olive or the guy with all those teeth???????
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Hahaha,
Joe, Take your pick,... it's your call.
If we were talking about one for me,
it would probably be more like this...
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/MrMagoouzi_zps2e193576.jpg)
Lets see if any of the younger crowd here even knows who this character is
(so if you are over, oh lets say.., 40 years old,.. you are not allowed to say who it is !) ;D
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LOL!!!! I used to love when he drove a car!!!!
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;D ;D before cataract surgery that was me ;D ;D ;D :P
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Glad you got her back, Joe. I hope your problems are over now and you have nothing but good luck with her.
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Thanks Tom!! She is shooting great!!! I'll order her some new clothes next week!
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Joe
Just got done reading all 12 pages of this nightmare! ! :o
Holly cow!!! What a story. This sounds like a Steven King story!!
Glad you made it through this ordeal and are still sane. Quite an ordeal.
Really like a freakin nightmare for sure. This does not leave many of use a warm and fussy feeling! !! NLOL!!!
I HAVE A T06 SETUP in a 52 that had a super loose stem after 500 shots. I drilled and pinned it for now. Looks like I will be ordering a replacement for sure. I pulled it apart today after a tin had been run through it to just check out the pinning. It is still solid but I just do not trust it.
Glad you got things going your way for now.
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;D Joe just don't lose that e-mail address just in case ;D Glad the lady is almost as good as new . Did Umarex leave the tune kit in the rifle or return her to factory specs? Next is she going to be dressed in walnut or are you going to leave her in beech?
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Joe
Just got done reading all 12 pages of this nightmare! ! :o
Holly cow!!! What a story. This sounds like a Steven King story!!
Glad you made it through this ordeal and are still sane. Quite an ordeal.
Really like a freakin nightmare for sure. This does not leave many of use a warm and fussy feeling! !! NLOL!!!
I HAVE A T06 SETUP in a 52 that had a super loose stem after 500 shots. I drilled and pinned it for now. Looks like I will be ordering a replacement for sure. I pulled it apart today after a tin had been run through it to just check out the pinning. It is still solid but I just do not trust it.
Glad you got things going your way for now.
Hey FANGY!! I don't think Steven King could've written this mess!!
I have 2 extra pistons just sitting doing nothing. I have a brand new stock one and an O ring, HMO?? If you'd like either one, pm me your address and I'll ship it to you.
;D Joe just don't lose that e-mail address just in case ;D Glad the lady is almost as good as new . Did Umarex leave the tune kit in the rifle or return her to factory specs? Next is she going to be dressed in walnut or are you going to leave her in beech?
Don!! They took out the Vortek parts and brought her back to stock. She is shooting great, just a bit rough and buzzy.
Don't think Diana offers walnut.
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;D Just like Harley you send them a motor to rebuild and the motor comes back factory stock
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I shoulda made a $1000. bet with joe, I need to win 1 too like he plays pool. it came back stock. did they give you your kit stuff you bought?
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Beech with magic walnuts dust, only dipped!
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My 52 has a loose piston stem and the only replacement I can find so far is in Britain.
Can mine be recrimped, or repaired? Maybe my only option is to buy a replacement from TW Chambers but I thought I would check with you guys first.
Thx.
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My 52 has a loose piston stem and the only replacement I can find so far is in Britain.
Can mine be recrimped, or repaired? Maybe my only option is to buy a replacement from TW Chambers but I thought I would check with you guys first.
Thx.
MANY have loose stems ... or should we say a loose end cap to main tube connection where crimped together.
Being loose common as it is would not concern me and would just continue to shoot rifle ... something stratospherically fails deal with it then.
JMO,
Scott
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My 52 hangs up occasionally when cocking the spring.
About 2/3 of the way through the cock the action sometimes jams. Then releasing some tension on the spring and re-cocking usually it works fine for many shots.
My first thought was the spring was cracked or broken. After taking it apart all I find is that the stem has about a .05" wobble in it. The spring looks good.
However, I do have a JM kit on hand to be installed in this rifle. I was waiting to install it though until I replaced or fixed the stem wobble.
What would you recommend my next step to be?
Thanks.
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I had a new replacement piston sent to me by Umarex for free, but the price was $56.
The new piston had a small amout of wobble in the stem.
The problem I had when the piston let go was she would not lock up at the bottom of the cocking stroke. Ton of resistance when trying to return cocking lever!!
I have a replacement piston, aftermarket HMO, if you're interested Wolf, but I really don't think you need one. I'll check to see if that one has any wobble and get back to you shortly.
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I have talked to Umarex, told them about the wobble, but they want me to send the action (no stock!) to them for analysis. I'm not going to do that. I guess I could go ahead and install the JM kit and see what happens.
Could this be a trigger problem? I hope not.
It will be interesting to see what you measure for wobble palonej.
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A snug fitted spring guide tighter on NOT ONLY guide to spring I.D. but guide to cocking stem/rod will better center it as it is entering the trigger housing ( * where you will get the catch/snag feel when alignment errors exist )
FYI ...
A kit will also be better than factory set up IMO.
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Hey Wolf.
Here is the piston I have.
There is no wobble on the stem.
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Hmm, so know one really knows how much wobble is acceptable?
Too bad these pistons cannot be re-crimped somehow.
What do you guys recommend I do? Reuse the piston and install the new JM kit?
Palonj, where did you get that hmo piston and how much are they? Are they an improvement over the oem or where they made to only eliminate wobble?
I'm not looking for higher performance on my 52, just want to smooooth it out if at all possible.
Thanks.
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A snug fitted spring guide tighter on NOT ONLY guide to spring I.D. but guide to cocking stem/rod will better center it as it is entering the trigger housing ( * where you will get the catch/snag feel when alignment errors exist )
FYI ...
A kit will also be better than factory set up IMO.
This is what you are looking for Wolf!!
Scott installed a Vortek kit in mine and it was a dream to shoot,,,,,,till the piston went. It was then put back to stock. Very BUZZZZY and jumpy. Not as much fun to shoot.
I bought the piston off the Yellow because we were having trouble getting one from Umarex.
Not too sure would trust it as I have read some issues on the DWC.
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If you didn't mind upgrading to a T06 you could get the T06 conversion kit from Chambers gun spares in the UK it comes with a new piston as well as the trigger unit, probably around $130.00 delivered.
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Which trigger do you have Wolf??
I have a T06 on mine
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The problems that seem to arise from using the HMO pistons, stem from the fact that they are not just a drop in part.
From what I understand reading up on them, they need to be carefully sized and fitted to the compression cylinder, and then they work quite well.
Across several forums, the consensus seems to be that the Hector built HMO rifles, and especially the HMO International tuned rifles run really sweet, and the rifles where the HMO piston is used as a drop in plug and play part MAY suffer from piston slam or drag depending on the ID of the compression cylinder.
Hector Medina is still regularly active on the Yellow Forum Field Target subforum, If you are so inclined, you could probably message him from there and inquire.
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You make a great point Chuck. There's a difference between a tuner doing the job, and a person just trying to "drill/mop/drop" the part in place, with little understanding of the why and parameters for the job.
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I have the T05 trigger and I want to keep this repair simple and cost low.
I could convert to a T06, or replace the T05 piston, or reassemble using my current piston and my new JM kit.
I still am not clear about the loose stem, I think I am hearing from you guys that loose stems are common but too much looseness can cause my hang-up problem.
If the T06 pistons also have loose stems I don't see a great advantage going that route. Do they have the looseness issue?
Basically, I just want to get it running again reliably again, I might want to sell it even.
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Pretty sure the HMO piston was sold with the idea Hector Medina would be doing the tune and install of the piston. After a number of guys paid in full and waited over a year for their guns, pretty sure they were 54s, the guns were shipped without the tune and install. Ton of problems with the point my friend Chuck brings up. Not all compression tubes are identical. Ugly situation that turned into a debacle.
Wolf, if you are thinking of going the T06 route, you can have the piston on me. I have no use for it. Even then you would need a T06 trigger. Getting expensive.