GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: tracker1955 on July 25, 2018, 03:00:49 PM
-
When Aim Sports sent a new rifle to me I'd hoped I would be out of the woods, but I guess not. Went out today to do some chrony testing on the DAR 22, set my chrony up on the tripod, got my chair, Ipad and ammo, charged the rifle to 2900psi and got about three shots across the chrony when air began to leak out the breather hole in the shroud. I can only assume an o-ring let go on the regulator, rats. Pellet velocity was 851-854 and then hisssss. Contacted Rich and Ryan again by email and am waiting on a reply. My wife said to just send it back to them and get a refund, but I want to give them one more chance to make it right. Man they gotta do something about those o-rings. If I'd known these were gonna be such a problem I coulda just waited on the Fortitude from Crosman, seems now I'm waiting either way. :-\ :( >:(
-
I ordered AS568-117 B70 (NBR) Buna-N Nitrile 70 Duro O-Ring from the o ring store myself. I put 4 of them in the airtube and valve and my leaks disappeared.
-
Go down to your local hardware store and get some #117 Buna N Dura 70 o-rings. You'd be surprised at how easy these guns are to work on.
Regulator O-Ring Replacement:
1. Pull the stock (one hex head bolt)
2. Remove the barrel band (2 small set screws)
3. Unscrew the air tube from the breech
4. Unscrew the fill adapter/gauge from the air tube
5. Use a wood dowel to slide the regulator out of the air tube
6. Replace the two garbage o-rings on the regulator
7. Reassemble in reverse order
8. DONE!
Now, go enjoy shooting and don't worry about another air leak!
-
They ship them fast too.
-
Go down to your local hardware store and get some #117 Buna N Dura 70 o-rings. You'd be surprised at how easy these guns are to work on.
Regulator O-Ring Replacement:
1. Pull the stock (one hex head bolt)
2. Remove the barrel band (2 small set screws)
3. Unscrew the air tube from the breech
4. Unscrew the fill adapter/gauge from the air tube
5. Use a wood dowel to slide the regulator out of the air tube
6. Replace the two garbage o-rings on the regulator
7. Reassemble in reverse order
8. DONE!
Now, go enjoy shooting and don't worry about another air leak!
They have to be -117
https://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_24&products_id=1191&zenid=75c65b4496cab23812e258af11c901cd (https://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_24&products_id=1191&zenid=75c65b4496cab23812e258af11c901cd)
-
I got mine from Amazon, a pack of 100 was a whopping $7.05 and they ship fast too! Or, PM me your address and I'll mail you some, I have plenty! I sure wouldn't send it back to Aim Sports, that just takes away from your shooting time!
-
Paul I got 46 of them left myself ;D
-
Go down to your local hardware store and get some #117 Buna N Dura 70 o-rings. You'd be surprised at how easy these guns are to work on.
They have to be -117
I'm not sure I understand Wayne. You mean the #117's I got won't work?
These are the o-rings I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015O2YWCK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015O2YWCK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
The ID is 13/16" and OD is 1" What size are the o-rings you got from the O-ring Store?
-
I'm quite certain that with new o-rings I could fix it, just want Aim involved so they see and feel the issue. At the same time, I shouldn't have to buy o-rings for a new rifle that's under warranty. I would be willing to fix it myself if they spring for the o-rings, would cost them less than freight to and from Cal. again. I may order some from the o-ring store but will wait for their reply.
-
Same size, I seen those but I wanted to make sure the ones I got were the Buna-N's
-
Same size, I seen those but I wanted to make sure the ones I got were the Buna-N's
They say they are "Buna Nitrile Rubber, 70 Durometer Hardness", I just assumed that meant Buna-N Dura 70! Hopefully they will work. Even if they only last a few months, I have a lifetime supply! :o
-
I remember when Mike@Mrodair went through the same thing with his early shipments from SPA, he called SPA to get them to install the better o rings. My Airmax Dominator has never need any o rings except for two little ones in the fill probe port, those are only a 20 minute job going real slow. Probe port o rings are the ones that take the most abuse.
Even the spare o rings I got with my Dar just split and cracked as soon as I tried them.
-
Paul it looks like you got the same exact orings that I got just from Amazon instead of the O ring store.
-
Waiting not worthy, placed an order for some, thanks guys. Gotta love how this reinterprets what you really said. Oh well.
-
I'm quite certain that with new o-rings I could fix it, just want Aim involved so they see and feel the issue. At the same time, I shouldn't have to buy o-rings for a new rifle that's under warranty. I would be willing to fix it myself if they spring for the o-rings, would cost them less than freight to and from Cal. again. I may order some from the o-ring store but will wait for their reply.
I wouldn't doubt that Gertrude brings the better o rings to their attention, he was supposed to be meeting one of them guys over the weekend I think. I'm sure that factory in China would probably start using the better o rings because that's very menial when it comes to the cost.
-
Paul when I looked up the measurements on line, the closest I could come to the size was -117 so I typed that in at the o ring store and there's for different kinds, the Buna-N was one that was on there and I went for it.
-
another option for orings like this are your local farm equipment dealers. I work for Case-IH and the 117 oring is number 238-5117 buna 70 or 277634 buna 90. they cost more but may be a quicker local option. I can cross a lot of std sizes over to 70 or 90 buna if you need them. just thought I would throw that out there
-
I wouldnt waist my compressed air on the orings that come in this rifle.. Reoring it right away out of the box and enjoy it.
Mike
-
I wouldnt waist my compressed air on the orings that come in this rifle.. Reoring it right away out of the box and enjoy it.
Mike
LOL! True dat! Like Wayne, I tried the spare o-rings that came with the rifle and they were garbage also. I actually have 2 -116 o-rings on my regulator right now because I had those on hand and the -117's hadn't arrived yet. They are still holding air, so I'll leave them be till they start leaking than then I'll replacement with the -117's. No sense poking a sleeping bear!
-
Just read an email from Ryan at A.S. they are sending new o-rings to me, in addition to the ones I purchased earlier at the o-ring store. They are going to do a phone consultation with me when the rings arrive, I will do the work and my warranty won't be affected. I told them that if the ones they are sending are of the same quality as the ones already in there, that I'd prefer to use the ones I just ordered that have worked well for others with the same issue. We'll see what they say about that one when I hear back. Personally, I think they should recall any remaining stock from Sportsman Guide and replace all the o-rings in them before any more are shipped out. They know there is a problem with them, now is the time to get in front of it and prevent further issues.
-
I wonder what those o rings are that JSAR uses on the SS valves, those are hard core o rings, I'm kinda thinking they might be viton but don't know for sure.
-
Mr. Tom, not wanting to get on your case Sir, but you have been around here long enough, and enough post on the subject of the low quality "O" rings in chinese AG's. (PCP's). I is not a distributor, dealer issue.
Returning a low cost PCP for low quality o rings would be tantamount to returning a new car, with all the issues involved in such a thing, because you decided you didn't like the tread pattern on a tire. Change the darned tires!
It's not like your a green nubie. LOL!!! ;D ;) 8)
Knife
-
YA, Knife !!!!
-
My issue is not whether I can do it, or if I know about cheap chinese o-rings, the issue is not voiding a warranty on a brand new rifle with issues and then having no recourse. My wife wanted me to return it, I've chosen to fix it but with Aims blessing, no warranty voided if done the route I've taken. I would have been willing to get into the rifle the first time if I'd had their blessing. Regardless of the cost of an airgun, it's not unreasonable to expect it to function as it should be it a DAR or an inexpensive Crosman.
-
My issue is not whether I can do it, or if I know about cheap chinese o-rings, the issue is not voiding a warranty on a brand new rifle with issues and then having no recourse. My wife wanted me to return it, I've chosen to fix it but with Aims blessing, no warranty voided if done the route I've taken. I would have been willing to get into the rifle the first time if I'd had their blessing. Regardless of the cost of an airgun, it's not unreasonable to expect it to function as it should be it a DAR or an inexpensive Crosman.
Regardless of price it should work as stated by the seller period.
-
The DAR is alot more rifle than the Fortitude, but it has sime shortcomings that the end user will need to fix. $300 take your pick- 15-20 trouble free fpe with a lotta plastic and a 7 ib trigger that isnt adjustable, or a gun that has minor issues you'll habe to fix but endless potential.
Kinda the same story with Chinese breakbarrels. If Mike Melick starts getting the DAR, it will be on!
-
Mr. Tom, not wanting to get on your case Sir, but you have been around here long enough, and enough post on the subject of the low quality "O" rings in chinese AG's. (PCP's). I is not a distributor, dealer issue.
Returning a low cost PCP for low quality o rings would be tantamount to returning a new car, with all the issues involved in such a thing, because you decided you didn't like the tread pattern on a tire. Change the darned tires!
It's not like your a green nubie. LOL!!! ;D ;) 8)
eh I have to disagree Knife... you should not have to do a complete tear down of a brand new 300$ rifle to replace all the o-rings...corroded trigger parts are a worry also...and no I do not give a pass on calling beech select walnut either... The importer does need to fix the situation before selling the rifles...sorry you do not pass on the problem... you either get lower price so you can fix them before they go out or you don't import them...or lower the price and let the customer know if he buys it he/she has probs to fix...
I do not give Crosman a pass on them not giving their barrels a decent leade either...Crosman kept getting called on the bad .22 Mrod barrels and now we have some very good barrels made in the U.S. like the Maxi barrels...
point is it is a problem that needs dealt with... if not I do not trust promises of parts and customer service...it is not a good way to start in my opinion...
not everybody wants/is willing to work on their new rifle... they just want it to work out of the box and that is a reasonable expectation...
But for the tinkerers well they will figure out ways to make Bam B50 parts...
Knife
-
I am willing to bet some one will figure out a 40+ fpe 22 fortitude.. ;) and parts do have a history of being available if you mess one up with the tinkering...aftermarket parts will most likely come because the rifles are know to be supported for a long time...
I hear promises so to some members from the importer...vs proof form crosman.... and some about how to tune by tinkers... some guys have the tools to make the Dang Air R ifle into something real good...
Heck a while back Bob showed the way to a 50 fpe Disco...short shot count but hey...
so whatever... they are different... but a "lot more rifle remains to be seen" in my eyes...
-
I just checked and my .177 is scheduled to be here Friday, I ain't even going to try shooting it until I go through it, I'm hoping that this one hasn't been exposed to the salt air as bad as my .25 was. This will be my first .177 pcp ever. Another thing that's nice is I'll be able to swap some of the parts around from one to the other if I want to. I hope the stock is finished better than my .25 because the 25 has some thin spots on the finish that stick out like a sore thumb, I'm thinking seriously about putting a better finish on it too.
-
I'll be refinishing the stock on mine this winter. It came with a small knick in it and I've already added a couple more.
-
I agree with you 100% Kirby, "BUT" we all know the Chinese PCP AG come with poor quality O Rings before we hit the buy button. It is the way it is. Saying it is not right, doesn't change a thing, and we have all been forewarned.
This is a Big reason I was happy to see Diana pick up the M-16 from Spa.
FRom what Diana has stated, this should be a non issue when purchased from them. 8)
Knife
-
Dang it the -117's let loose throughout the night so I order some in 90duro and 1 size up the -118's in 70, 90 and 90duro vitons as well. I'll get this thing to stay sealed up eventually.
-
I'll be refinishing the stock on mine this winter. It came with a small knick in it and I've already added a couple more.
They seem to Knick real easy Peculiarly easy when an over zealous 4 legged friend plowed into my shooting bench and my dar took a tumble >:( Im going to find out what the wood looks like real soon....
-
I agree with you 100% Kirby, "BUT" we all know the Chinese PCP AG come with poor quality O Rings before we hit the buy button. It is the way it is. Saying it is not right, doesn't change a thing, and we have all been forewarned.
This is a Big reason I was happy to see Diana pick up the M-16 from Spa.
FRom what Diana has stated, this should be a non issue when purchased from them. 8)
Knife
I never had o ring problems from mine, I have replaced a couple of the fill probe o rings but I've fill the gun many times, all the other o rings in it Mike ordered special from SPA.
-
Sorry I couldn't make it out to your place Tom to see the chrony test and checkout the new gun. Sounds like it would've been a short trip with the air leak trouble.
I am concerned about the scattering of the groups. I don't think I would tear into it and install quality O-rings until I knew for sure the accuracy was on point. Accuracy is everything. Good luck my friend and look forward to getting together soon.
-
Heard back from Ryan today at Aim, they were going to send me the same o-rings that I already purchased from the o-ring store, so in lew of the o-rings, they are sending me an extra magazine free. It pays to be nice to people when dealing with a problem, I know from working retail myself for the last 12 years that nice goes a lot further than when you get nasty. USPS tracking says o-rings should be here Saturday. Will be watching for the mail.
-
Heard back from Ryan today at Aim, they were going to send me the same o-rings that I already purchased from the o-ring store, so in lew of the o-rings, they are sending me an extra magazine free. It pays to be nice to people when dealing with a problem, I know from working retail myself for the last 12 years that nice goes a lot further than when you get nasty. USPS tracking says o-rings should be here Saturday. Will be watching for the mail.
Tom, did they happen today mention the cost of the Magazine and if they have them available for sale yet? I need the give them a call, one of the set screws on the barrel band on mine was stripped when I got it, I’d like to purchase a replacement and it would be great if I could get a couple magazines as well.
-
Sorry Paul, nothing was said about costs or if they had gotten the magazine order in from China, What I understood was that they would be similar in price to Marauder Mags. They may not even have the one they said they would send me until that order comes, Don't know. I felt bad just having to contact them again, but they have been very nice and have responded to every email, can't ask for more than that.
-
I need another magazine also, mine has a small crack in the clear plastic part, it was there from the beginning but is growing, still working though.
-
My DAR in .22 is due in Monday, guess I need to stock up on pellets!
-
I need another magazine also, mine has a small crack in the clear plastic part, it was there from the beginning but is growing, still working though.
Now that you mention it, mine has had a small crack since I got it, but luckily, it has not grown. The magazine still functions fine, so I'll keep using it till it fails. I do what to get 2 spares though. At my current tune, I can shoot 3 magazine before I need to refill, so having 3 on hand should do the trick.
-
You both might try wicking super thin super glue into the crack, they make one especially for plastics called UFO available through hobby shops.
-
yep,
The one I have is cracked too. :(
and it has less than 250 shots fired. :( :( :(
-
I might send them an email about my cracked magazine because for all the stuff that I've done to the 25 so far it would seem like they'd at least send me a new one in good shape. I did get my .177 today, filled it with no problems, I was going to let it wait til tomorrow to see if it was leaking but I couldn't help myself, just had to do an out of the box chrony test with the Benjamin 7.9's. I'll probably fill it back up to test 13 of the Skenco's that I have cause it's shooting the 7.9's too fast I think, I doubt they'll be stable at a distance but I am pretty much inexperienced shooting the .177's at these velocities ???
I can also say that the trigger on this one is very good, I won't even mess with this one except inspect things when I get the air out of it. That would be really cool if I didn't have any problems with the o rings on this gun but I've got some ordered to fix my DAR25.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/853/43684478441_65f904681b_h.jpg)
15.8g Skenco
1. er 14. 1054 27. 1081 40. er 53. 1066 Well I just had to try out the --------------> 1. 781.3 =21.42fpe
2. 1047 15. 1060 28. 1066 41. 1046 54. 1057 Skenco's so I topped the gun 2. 792.2=22.02fpe
3. 1045 16. 1052 29. 1056 42. 1055 55. er back up to 3K again. 3. 770.6=21.93fpe
4. er 17. 1072 30. 1059 43. 1062 56. 1038 4. 798.0=22.06fpe
5. 1052 18. 1058 31. er 44. 1071 57. 1048 5. 787.6=21.76fpe
6. 1053 19. er 32. 1076 45. 1074 58. 1058 <-- most likely the lasted regulated shot (120bar) 6. 788.5=21.81fpe
7. 1048 20. er 33. 1058 46. er 59. er 7. 783.9=21.56fpe
8. 1048 21. 1049 34. 1061 47. 1072 60. 1036 8. 785.7=21.66fpe
9. 1065 22. 1076 35. 1072 48. 1071 61. 1029 9. 802.5=22.59fpe
10. 1065 23. 1061 36. 1063 49. 1072 62. 1017 10. 775.8=21.12fpe
11. 1074 24. 1053 37. 1058 50. er 63. 1018 11. 771.2=20.87fpe
12. 1063 25. er 38. 1060 51. 1058 64. 1021 12. 770.3=20.82fpe
13. er 26. 1061 39. 1057 52. 1065 65. 1006 13. 794.2=22.13fpe
-
Wayne, those first pellets are shooting way to fast, doubt they'll be very accurate at that speed. If you can order some AA 10.34gr I think your FPS and FPE will be right where it needs to be. If your skenco's shoot good they're a bit slow but will pack a wallop. Glad to hear you like the trigger better in this one, mine seems to be getting a little better with wear but it has a lot of creep.
-
Just a word- those Chinese o-rings are not cheap quality... They fail super-fast for several reasons:
1: improper assembly method- you should use a brass "spoon" with no sharp edges to gently stretch an o-ring over lands to drop into a groove. And yeah, the edge between the land and groove should be free of burrs or rolled edges. I can easily see some poor factory worker manhandling those o-rings and knicking the vast majority. In the Navy, we always moved those guys to the "outside machine shop".
2: wrong durometer and wrong type. They would work fine in a hydraulic system, especially when teflon o-ring retainers sat on each side in the groove. The problem is air is a much thinner fluid than any hydraulic fluid, and given the type of load on the o-rings in a PCP, they fail right away.
I base this on working in a hydraulic shop and HPAir shop (31-A and 31-F at TRF/Bangor) in the Navy, and having both QA'd and rebuilt many millions of dollars worth of hydraulic/HPA/compressed gas valves. Simple stated, wrong o-ring for the job and a poor quality of assembly. They are not the lower quality one sees in a Harbor Freight o-ring pack where casting seams are visible. The difference is a cheaper-quality but harder o-ring made out of the RIGHT material (Viton or BUNA-nitrile) will last where the overly-soft incorrect O-ring will fail.
I'm not saying the Chinese ones won't fail, but my SPA pistol is still on the OEM O-rings several years after purchase with many tins of pellets down the bore. And FWIW, I have seen o-ring with millions of cycles in dynamic operation stay leak free. It all boils down to quality of assembly and maintaining a system free of foreign material.
Now back to the main story... Wayne, that .177 is a screamer. GEtchoo some Skenco Ultra Shocks as well the JSB Ultrashocks. They are incredibly destructive on small critters. Some other heavy-weights are the Beeman Silver Jets pointed (they shoot incredibly out of my SPA pistol)... I am sorely tempted to skip getting a .25 for my next PCP and just opt for for a .177.
-
Peter the only o rings that have failed in any of my SPA's were the fill probe o rings, all the others are still original and I use those guns too, they don't set idle for too very long.
Fill probe o rings take a beating and I don't care what gun it is, they're eventually going to probably the first to let loose in most of them..
It hasn't been that long since I went hunting with my PP700SA, I simply love that pistol, it never fails me, pretty much all my SPA's are really quite reliable.
-
I just installed new o rings in my .25 that I got in the mail today, The -118's have too big of an ID so I used the -117 90 duro and they fit much tighter than what the -117 70 duro fit, I think they're the exact size that you need but you just need the hard 90duro because the 70 duros when they let loose with the the Buna N's simply because they were too soft I think. I'll probably take the 25 out tomorrow and give it another thorough test tomorrow weather permitting, I doubt very much that it's going to leak because they were how an o ring is supposed to fit, nice and tight.
-
Wayne, the Duro 90 still Buna-N or are they a different material? I can't get the 117's I got to hold a seal, sometimes they'd hold for one fill, or blow at about 2000 psi as I was filling. Sure makes you jump when they go, scares the dogs too. Please post if you have any problems with the new seals, if they hold I'll make a trip over to Nashville rubber and gasket after work Monday and see if they have some. Did you put them just on the regulator or at the ends of the air tube also? I want this thing to work so bad, had high hopes that the Duro 70 would fix it.
-
Tom I only used them on the regulator, I just checked it again and I think the 90duro's are just what the doctor ordered. The -117's are definitely the correct size though I did get about 3 days on the 70duro but they finally opened up and once they open up it's dump time. The O-rings were still good but they were just too soft to handle the constant pressure. The O-rings on either end are good @ 70duro, they're a compression fitting rather than the application used on the regulator. I'll eventually be taking my .177 apart too when it fails (just a matter of time) and measure the ID of the air tube, I'm going to figure out something for a depinger on these guns because they do create some harmonics.
The reason for the harmonics is the fact the regulator is recessed up in the air tube with the spacer that it still makes quite a ping, I remember in another thread about these guns Bob Stearne was curious as to why there's a ping when there is a regulator and this is the best reason that I can think of.
-
Tom:
You've got that right about the sound of an "O" ring letting go on a full fill when you least expect it!
I had a Hatsan let go in my home one night while I was surfing the web.
Came close to having to change my britches!
Scared the b'geezers out of me, and re positioned my heart from my chest into my throat!
~ deerflyguy
-
Well I took mine out shooting this morning with absolutely no problems, I put 60 shots through it with 3 refills without a problem, she's working great. Pretty dag gone accurate too I might add ;D
-
Well I took mine out shooting this morning with absolutely no problems, I put 60 shots through it with 3 refills without a problem, she's working great. Pretty dag gone accurate too I might add ;D
What's the serial number on that DAR177 Wayne? Just curious how far along they are, sounds like QC has improved!
-
Me right now I am a bit bummed my oldest son needed a bit of help...had a black wrap pre can on the end BSA Buc .22 on pre order 299$... had to cancel... and now they are in stock... Have had my .177 (277$) for a good while now and 0 probs...
I do think for us here it is good to have options and if parts and support turn into a reality and for long term these may be a good option... heck guys are keeping their B50s running...
but the bad threading on the flying dragon tubes... mix it with the oring probs on these and spa rifles... it just makes me leery of the specs all around... just really want to feel good about attention to detail with 3000 psi...
for those with knowledge of PCPs and know what to look at fine... but for a neophyte..? I would recommend wait a while longer while you guys give them a good shake out and the parts supply is proven...
-
Tom the serial on the .177 is DW12170006. Thats a much lower number than my 25.
-
Thanks Wayne for the info, will try Nashville rubber and gasket tomorrow for the o-rings. I was thinking about this today at work, wondering if the ID on some of these air tubes are larger than others by a few thousands making a difference in how well the o-rings seal. I also wondered if the tube being aluminum may be stretching or swelling a bit causing the o-rings to fail at their outer rim. (why did it take mine awhile to fail) I just know I have never put more than 3000 psi in the tube, and to add to that the gage on my fill station and the one on my rifle match exactly so they both confirm it. There has to be a common link between why some DAR rifles are having trouble and some aren't. Would like to know what the inside tube measures across multiple rifles and if this is another quality control issue needing attention. inquiring minds want to know.......
-
Tom another odd thing about some of them is the fact there was some sort of shimming tape under the o rings. All 4 of the big ones for the airtube and regulator had that stuff wrapped in the groove.
-
Mine had it in the grooves under the o-rings at both ends of the air tube but not under the rings on the regulator. Makes you suspect the depth of the groves were over machined. I put a 117 ring at each end and they seem to be sealing fine, it's just at the regulator that the outer edge keeps shredding.
-
For anyone putting new o rings on the valve and airtube I highly recommend taking a magnified look at all the o ring grooves because whatever it is that they used can almost be transparent when there's silicone oil on it.
-
Well, not wanting to let this thing beat me I took another stab at it tonight after church. The first thing I did was put some air in the tube and confirm with soapy water that the only place I was getting a leak from was the vent hole for the regulator. Yup, no other leaks, air tube ends seal fine as well as valve poppet, no air coming out the barrel shroud. Took the rifle apart and checked to see if shimming the regulator forward 3/32" would cure the problem in case the vent hole was to close to the o-ring, nope that's not it. This time I took the duro 90's out and replaced them with a metric set that I had around as a repair kit from my old Bam B-50 that I had tuned and given to my grandsons, they were just slightly bigger in diameter than the #117's. They felt good going in but still would not hold air. I'm at my wits end with this thing, I really didn't want to let this thing beat me but without a way to close the gap between the air tube and the o-ring I guess it's won. Didn't hear back from Ryan at Aim Sports Friday afternoon and suspect he's off for the weekend so will have to wait till Monday to see what he can suggest. Don't know if it need's a different regulator, air tube or both.
-
Tom if it was a slow leak and didn't dump the air I'd be inclined to think there might be a burr on your vent hole ??? I was able to get my finger up inside the tube far enough to feel mine. I never did check for a burr with my 177 but it's still holding air fine. I've probably had the 177 apart and back together 5 times adjusting the reg with the same two 90 duro's and they're still sealing good.
-
If its a small leak i would be inclined to dissemble the regulator and replace the orings inside it then look Very close at the area where the regulator sildes in the air tube, all the way to where it rests..I had some machine marks so I ran a brake hone in mine after the second time mine let go and replace with viton orings (the only thing i had on hand) and it has held ever scene ..
Mike
-
Played with the DAR some more, seem to have the o-ring from a Bam B-50 repair kit sealing the regulator, at least for now. Got to shoot three mags after work before having to do other things, holding air to 3000 psi at the moment but very skeptical about it lasting. I would love to see it prove me wrong. No burs inside the air tube at vent hole, even looks pretty smooth inside, just think tube ID is oversized.
-
I'm looking forward to when the parts for these guns are available, I'm hesitant about taking the regulator apart at the moment on these because they seem to work so good for consistent shots throughout the shot strings. Hopefully the parts are reasonably priced as well like most Chinese airgun parts are, even most of the Crosman stuff is made in China now I think and they're prices are really inexpensive as well. It would be nice if DAR came out with a whole line of products like SPA has because from what I've heard many of the SPA models are only available in north America with the Diana name on them now and from what I've heard they have exclusive rights for dealing many of the models.
I'm convinced that the 90duro's are going to be just fine in both my 25 and 177 because the leaks have disappeared in both of them. I had the 177 out in the woods early this morning and christened it with it's first squirrel, a red squirrel at a good distance too.
-
Well the fun was short lived as I rather expected, got home from work, checked the rifle, still holding at 3K, shot through 3 mags then whooosh. :'( and to top it off no replies from Aim Sports from Fridays email to Ryan. Glad others have gotten theirs to hold air. I didn't buy this to have a pretty paperweight.
-
Well the fun was short lived as I rather expected, got home from work, checked the rifle, still holding at 3K, shot through 3 mags then whooosh. :'( and to top it off no replies from Aim Sports from Fridays email to Ryan. Glad others have gotten theirs to hold air. I didn't buy this to have a pretty paperweight.
Dang Tom, was that with the Dura90 o-rings? I'm still chasing a slow leak, it loses about 10-20 bar over a 24 hour period. I have the Dura90 o-rings on the regulator and the Dura70's on both ends of the air tube like Wayne, but I'm about ready to swap the 70's for 90's for the ends of the air tube and see if that fixes it.
-
Tom Im sorry to hear your having such a time with the dar ! Has any one measure the tube ID and the OD of the regulator to see how sloppy the fit is on the guns that are having trouble sealing? My regulator fit nice without Orings so I knew it should seal with good orings .
Again on mine i ran a fine stone brake hone in where the reg sits. im using 75d viton orings they are rather soft compaird to the 90d some others have had successes using.. One more thing that crossed my mind the oring groove on the regulator should be polished very smooth on the top edge.. Just typing out loud :)
-
Really hate reading about all the troubles with the DAR Tom. I'm beginning to think DAR stands for dang air rifle or worse. Hopefully since AIM is not responding in a timely manner, maybe you might can dispute the cc charges.
-
Well the fun was short lived as I rather expected, got home from work, checked the rifle, still holding at 3K, shot through 3 mags then whooosh. :'( and to top it off no replies from Aim Sports from Fridays email to Ryan. Glad others have gotten theirs to hold air. I didn't buy this to have a pretty paperweight.
I too emailed Thursday night, then decided to call on Friday at which point they said they had forwarded my email to the Dar rep, which I guess is Ryan. They assured me he would be in contact on Friday, well it's Monday and still no email. Might be buried with returns on this rifle as seems like a working one out of the box is the exception and not the rule.
-
I have the 70 duro on the ends and they seal fine, the problem all along has been at the regulator. The 90 duro wouldn't hold either, the ones that just let go tonight were a metric set from another rifle that went to my grandsons a couple years ago, they were in repair parts I'd hung onto for it.
-
Maybe it's time to add some dental floss to the grooves on the regulator like they came from the factory! Seems odd, but if it works...
-
Played with the DAR some more, seem to have the o-ring from a Bam B-50 repair kit sealing the regulator, at least for now. Got to shoot three mags after work before having to do other things, holding air to 3000 psi at the moment but very skeptical about it lasting. I would love to see it prove me wrong. No burs inside the air tube at vent hole, even looks pretty smooth inside, just think tube ID is oversized.
Just curious here, does the area of the ID of the tube where the o-rings seal appear to have been machined? If so, one should be able to see a slight step inside of the tube, down past where the o-rings sit.
On my SPA M-10s, the ID of the tube is bored (just past the threads on both ends, where the end cap & valve o-rings seal) to true up the slight out-of-round condition present in the tube stock used for the reservoir. That's standard practice when designing pneumatic/hydraulic thingies.
-
I'm still waiting for someone to open the inside of the regulator on these, I just haven't had the inclination of doing so because both of mine sealed fantastic with the 90duro's. I've since degassed both of them after putting them in to readjust the regulators on them and reassembled them both having great results. One of these days I'll get an assortment of smaller ball hones just for using on the PCP guns because my Mrod really does need a ball hone put through it to smooth things out.
Victor these Dynamic air rifles are actually a whole horse of a different color from the SPA guns, I've also got an Airmax Dominator which I bought from Mrodair when they first hit the market, the gun is a real nice solid gun all the way around, I have only had to replace 2 of the probe fill o rings in it after thousands of rounds through it. I've also modified it a little too and am getting about 40 shots at 43fpe with the 30grain .22 BBT's which shoot extremely well from it.
I'd really like to see JSAR be able to get either the M11's or M22's because they're one of the better bolt guns out there in my opinion, they're super powerhouse guns indeed and have some really fantastic barrels on them as my Airmax Dominator does. My dominator has a mono block design for the main internals though. They have the Mrod beat hands down in my opinion too, my .25 Mrod is a wimp compared to how the M10's are in the power department.
I can't really recall just how well the grooves are where the I.D. of the o rings make contact, they could probably use some polishing up if you're still having sealing problems.
I've recently adjusted my DAR25 for a 10 shot power string, I was basically getting it ready for testing the 25 cal BBT's which I'll be casting within a couple of days, I just checked a little while ago and the mold has been shipped and is due here Wednesday 8) When I did this string I used cast pellets I also made from an NOE mold and I weighed each pellet individually and kept them all close to 34.5 grains
After I've put some of the .25 BBT's through it the tune indeed might be changed
FPS FPS
1. 900.8 34.58g 62.32fpe 6. 914.7 34.66g 64.40fpe
2. 910.2 34.42g 63.33fpe 7. 899.2 34.48g 61.92fpe
3. 914.4 34.64g 64.32fpe 8. 872.4 34.66g 58.58fpe
4. 918.4 34.42g 64.48fpe 9. 895.4 34.52g 61.46fpe
5. 900.4 34.62g 62.33fpe 10. 891.3 34.32g 60.55fpe
-
TheSaint
Real Name: Mike
Re: Does anyone recognize this regulator ?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2018, 03:25:27 PM »
Quote
The regulator is an expanding piston type. There is a spring behind the piston. To disassemble the regulator, use a pin wrench or snap ring pliers to spin off the brass disc/keeper. Thread the appropriate sized bolt, I thing it's an m5 into the center of the piston. Put the reg in a padded vice, and use pliers to pull the piston out with the bolt. The only thing that adjusts the pressure is the knurled knob.
-
Paul, I tried dental floss, teflon tape, both without success. I still believe this tube is oversize on its ID.
-
I would really like to mic the air tube and the regulator so we can get to the bottom of this!
-
I would really like to mic the air tube and the regulator so we can get to the bottom of this!
I have a cylinder hone arriving today. I will be disassembling it to try and smooth the area where the regulator sits and will be swapping the 2 Dura70 o-rings on either end of the air tube for Dura90 0-rings to see if this will stop the slow leak I still have. I will measure the ID of the tube and the OD of the regulator before I do any smoothing to the inside of the tube. I'll post what I find afterwards.
-
I've got a pretty good feeling that Dynamic won't be around long. They brought a product to market that I've now decided wasn't even Beta. More like Working Prototype. And now emails and phone calls aren't being returned. I'm giving them til the end of today to resolve my issues with the .22 I have, which is now relagated to Paperweight status, also. If I don't hear anything, then Sportsman's Guide is getting an earful tomorrow morning. We really shouldn't have to be going thru this. A little tinkering is one thing, but doing Aim Sports in field R&D for them, free of charge, is unacceptable.
-
Tom,
Have you verified where the leak is coming out of the gun ?
Soapy water at all possible leak paths ? Balloon over barrel ?
Have you measured the ID that you suspect to be oversized ?
It seems odd to me that this rifle is having so many problem with leaks.
Heck, I reassembled mine using the original orings and it is holding air just fine.
I did notice some floss/tape under the regulator o ring on mine too. I simply tucked it down into the groove and used some silicone grease on assembly. It went together very easy.
My group of buddies ordered 4 more of these rifles, and we should be seeing them within the next week. They had to take a detour through Az on there way to Ca. I am hoping they will all be good on air when they arrive. We'll know pretty soon.
-
I've got a pretty good feeling that Dynamic won't be around long. They brought a product to market that I've now decided wasn't even Beta. More like Working Prototype. And now emails and phone calls aren't being returned. I'm giving them til the end of today to resolve my issues with the .22 I have, which is now relagated to Paperweight status, also. If I don't hear anything, then Sportsman's Guide is getting an earful tomorrow morning. We really shouldn't have to be going thru this. A little tinkering is one thing, but doing Aim Sports in field R&D for them, free of charge, is unacceptable.
Agreed. If changing a few o rings produced a working gun, though I shouldn't have to, I was willing. But to receive a gun that didn't work out the box and something more than simple o rings is unacceptable. Now to not have email response to my problem tells me they are overwhelmed with returns from a gun that was never ready for the market. Just think these guys were selling how other new products , parts, and other places to buy where soon to come. at the same time their first gun was failing at an alarming rate.
-
Sorry you're having so much problem, I have SN ...044, .22 cal., and have had zero problems, Holds air, very accurate and 30 shots at 880+ with 18 gr pellets. From what I'm hearing there may be more good ones than bad out there.
-
Here are the dimensions I got when I took it apart this afternoon to swap the Dura70 o-rings for Dura90's. The OD of the Regulator is .98", the ID of the Air Tube is 1.038". No to caveat that, I could only get the caliper in far enough to measure the ID of the threaded portion, and there is a slight step in from the threads to the section of the air tube where the regulator sits. So, the section where the regulator sits may have a 1" ID which would still give .02" clearance. It's hard to say for sure.
I did a very light honing with the brake hone. I sure didn't want to increase space between the regulator and the air tube any more, just smooth it a little.
I aired it back up and will let t sit for 24 hours to see of the Dura90's and honing helped. It has been losing between 10 and 20 Bar over a 24 hour period, so it should be easy to see if it's holding or not by tomorrow afternoon.
-
I'd say poor gunsmith work in that factory, if they do want to continue they'd better up their products.
-
Speaking of bad gun smithing: NEVER dry fire this rifle without air in the tube. The hammer face is concave, and will pinch closed the poppet valve shaft holder. The shaft will then stick. That holder will also back itself out. Lock-tite is apparently in short supply at the Dynamic assembly plant. Also, if your chronograph numbers start going wonky, take apart the regulator. After you get the piston and spring out, you'll find a slotted piston stem guide set screw (looks like an old school carb jet) and you'll probably find that it was not screwed all the way in. The more I dig into this rifle, the more I begin to have buyers remorse. But I have learned quite a bit about how NOT to build a regulated pcp. Whether or not Aim Sports comes up with a fix for my current issue, it's going back to SG tomorrow. Gonna order the MrodAir version of the Diana Outlaw (because of the extra magazine) the second I get a RMA from SG. I'm sick of this thing. Reminds me of my old Norton Commando. Ride for an hour, wrench for four.
-
I'm beyond disgusted at this point, no email again today. Sent a new email to Rich Neighbor at Aim who is the sales rep to Sportsmans Guide, told him of multiple emails between myself and Ryan and now no returns. Told him I will be home tomorrow if they want to talk to me in person, otherwise, want a shipping label sent and a refund of $319.99 for what I paid SG.
As far as leak testing goes, soap tested all potential areas and each time was at the vent hole for the regulator. Have tried multiple o-rings and all have failed to date. Now I'm done being the test dummy.
-
To TheSaint, good luck getting an RMA from SG as they will just refer you to Aim Sports just as they did me. >:(
-
I’m a relative newb when it comes to PCP air guns, especially regulated ones. I have installed regulators in both my Marauders and neither one has a vent hole that I’m aware of. What is the purpose of this vent hole? Seems I had less trouble with mine holding air when that vent was plugged with a shred of rubber from the o-ring! It appears the air tube is machined the same on both ends, I.e. the offset from the threads. I know because I’ve assembled it backwards! If there were a way to plug that vent hole, would the rifle still function? Sorry if this is a dumb question!
-
My understanding is regulated guns are vented to the atmosphere hence the vent hole. If a regulator were added to my synrod it would vent through the gage hole in tube, or vent hole would be drilled through tube if gage block and gage are kept.
-
My understanding is regulated guns are vented to the atmosphere hence the vent hole. If a regulator were added to my synrod it would vent through the gage hole in tube, or vent hole would be drilled through tube if gage block and gage are kept.
Interesting... So, how does it vent through the gauge hole? Both mine still have the gauge firmly attached to the gauge block. They sealed and held air before the regulator was installed and in both applications the regulator just slid s in and sets next to the gauge block inside the air tube. I did remove one o-ring off the gauge block nearest the regulator as part of the install, but both held air just fine before and after the regulators were added so the structural seals essentially did not change from what it was before.
-
I noticed that one other guy got his barrel band replaced, mine was stripped out on the 25, I was going to tap it to bigger threads but if I can get them to send me a good one I'll be happy. Who should I contact about this ???
-
ryang@aimsportsinc.com
-
Yep, what Tom said! I contacted Ryan and had a new barrel band in about 3 days!
-
PaulT58, as I understand it there are more than one choice of regulators for the mrod/synrod platform, some require removing the gage block, some work with the gage block but require removal of one o-ring, others work with gage block but require a hole drilled in the air tube. The removal of the o-ring is what allows it to vent to the atmosphere on the one you described.
-
I’m a relative newb when it comes to PCP air guns, especially regulated ones. I have installed regulators in both my Marauders and neither one has a vent hole that I’m aware of. What is the purpose of this vent hole?
On the DAR, it's there so you have an audible signal to let you know when the regulator o-rings have failed. ;D
-
Good one :-X
-
ryang@aimsportsinc.com
I just sent them an email, hopefully I get a good response ???
-
Speaking of bad gun smithing: NEVER dry fire this rifle without air in the tube. The hammer face is concave, and will pinch closed the poppet valve shaft holder. The shaft will then stick. That holder will also back itself out. Lock-tite is apparently in short supply at the Dynamic assembly plant. Also, if your chronograph numbers start going wonky, take apart the regulator. After you get the piston and spring out, you'll find a slotted piston stem guide set screw (looks like an old school carb jet) and you'll probably find that it was not screwed all the way in. The more I dig into this rifle, the more I begin to have buyers remorse. But I have learned quite a bit about how NOT to build a regulated pcp. Whether or not Aim Sports comes up with a fix for my current issue, it's going back to SG tomorrow. Gonna order the MrodAir version of the Diana Outlaw (because of the extra magazine) the second I get a RMA from SG. I'm sick of this thing. Reminds me of my old Norton Commando. Ride for an hour, wrench for four.
Mike if you do get the Airmax Dominitor I'm sure that you'll like it a lot. Mine is .22 and I have modified it a little since I bought it, I've now got it shooting the BBT 30 grains slugs like a laser@43fpe. The big difference when I bought mine was I had to wait for the tail end of the slow boat from China however the wait was well worth it. When you order something from Mrodair it will be at your doorstep in a matter of less than a week, he ships the stuff that he's already got in stock pronto with UPS.
This is the last pictorial shot string that I did with my Dominator, since then I've been into casting the 217-30-FN boat tail slugs, my Dominator is the main reason that I bought the mold because it's now got the power to sling them slugs nicely. I'm pretty much a hunter with air guns only however the slugs shoot just as accurate as any of the JSB's that I've fed it. I doubt you'll get the energy out of the 25 Dominator without doing modifications to it to get the 60+fpe that I'm getting from my DAR25 though and it's still basically just been tuned for what it's doing now without modifying anything except the better o rings.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/961/41101558234_49e06fcb7b_b.jpg)
Mike@mrodair even called me on the phone when I ordered mine, he said mine was the first one ordered so I was the original guinea pig for this gun anywhere, all the foreign distributors at the time hadn't actually gotten them yet so I was in the dark about the gun as well as Mike being in the dark himself. I don't know how many of these guns he has left but you just can't beat the price. I haven't talked with Mike since then but I've ordered several things since as well as the prior PP700SA(like the pistol a lot) I got from him. I hope that Diana hasn't clinched the market on these models like I've heard because the U.S. really needs a distributor here rather than being a third party through Diana.
-
I'm about at my wit's end! I replaced the Dura70 o-rings with Dura90 and it's still not holding air. The pictures below are from when I filled it at 4:30 P.M. yesterday afternoon till when I checked it at 6:40 A.M. this morning. I sent an e-mail to Ryan asking what next? The rifle isn't usable to me in this condition and I've pretty much run out of option, time and patience to continue troubleshooting this rifle without any compensation! LOL! I specifically asked if I should contact SG about returning it. It will be interesting to hear what he proposes as my next step. I really wanted to love this rifle, but I don't think it's quite ready for the mainstream market. If I end up returning it, I may try one of those refurb Hatsan FlashQE's in .177.
-
I am now curious to see who wins the Ryan sweepstakes and actually get a reply from him!!! To suddenly vanish as complaints mount is not good customer service.
-
I did get a reply, will be contacting him by phone today to discuss my options, was also told they had server problems and that he didn't get my last email from Friday.
-
Tom glad you finally got a response. I have heard nothing.
-
I e-mailed him this morning and sent the pictures of the gauge to show how much air leaked out over night. Having changed all the o-rings with no fix, I wonder if these have a bad batch of regulators and those need to be replaced with some that hold air. I guess I need to do a leak test on the vent hole and see if that where it's leaking. Although I am getting tired of spending more time tinkering with it then I am actually shooting it! :o
-
Ok guys, here's what's happening, I just spoke with Ryan and they are going to ship me a new air tube, regulator, barrel band, and barrel with a shroud to replace the ones giving me trouble. They do have a tolerance issue on some air tubes, and are beefing up the barrel band with US screws for future rifles. Ryan said anyone with questions or problems feel free to call him by phone at 909-923-2228 ext 125 and he will be happy to speak to you. Tom
-
Wow Tom they're sending you a boatload of stuff, very cool 8) I don't have long distance myself unless I put some time on a dollar store phone that I have, If I can't get him by email I'll go put some money on that dollar general phone I've got for emergencies ;D
-
Got an email from Ryan too. Gave me his number to discuss my problems. If the new air tubes and regulator fixes my rifle I would be ok with that. I just want a working rifle. So far haven't gotten through to him.
-
What is the email address for them !
-
ryang@aimsportsinc.com
-
Talked to Ryan, sending me a new regulator with o rings. Tells me they are having tolerance issues with regulator, tubes have been consistent, hmmmm. If it fixes it I will be happy, if not I'll be calling again again again.
-
Both of mine seem to be sealed fine, about the only thing I need is a new barrel band for the 25. I was out shooting the 177 again yesterday, that thing is really accurate too. Today I cast up 170 each of the hollow point and the flat nose 25 cal bbt's, I'll be headed out tomorrow morning to see how the hollow points are shooting from the 25, I'll bet they do good but I'll find out for sure in the morning.
-
Wow Tom they're sending you a boatload of stuff, very cool 8) I don't have long distance myself unless I put some time on a dollar store phone that I have, If I can't get him by email I'll go put some money on that dollar general phone I've got for emergencies ;D
+1 Way cool that they are responding and working hard to help resolve the issues!
-
Nice to know they back up their merchandise...won't mind when they start selling refurbs at discounted price. 🙃
-
Well, I haven’t heard from Ryan and when I tried calling him it went to voice mail, which was full, so I couldn’t leave him a message! I guess I will continue to wait patiently for him to call me...
-
Well, just got off the phone with Ryan, he’s sending me a new set of o-rings to try. If that doesn’t work then he wants me to send him the entire rifle and they will tear it down and see why it refuses to hold air.
-
Paul sorry to hear you didn't get through to Ryan. I kept trying and finally left a message on his answering machine and he actually called me back twice, getting me on the second call. He said he's swamped on the phone trying to fix problems, of which I have no doubts.
-
Well, just got off the phone with Ryan, he’s sending me a new set of o-rings to try. If that doesn’t work then he wants me to send him the entire rifle and they will tear it down and see why it refuses to hold air.
He offered me the o rings first but I told him I had tried the duro 90s he has and it still wouldn't hold air, that's when he said he would send me another regulator.
-
Well, just got off the phone with Ryan, he’s sending me a new set of o-rings to try. If that doesn’t work then he wants me to send him the entire rifle and they will tear it down and see why it refuses to hold air.
He offered me the o rings first but I told him I had tried the duro 90s he has and it still wouldn't hold air, that's when he said he would send me another regulator.
You must have gotten the last spare regulator! I told him I had started with the o-rings that came with it, then went to the Dura70’s and currently have the Dura90’s on the regulator and both ends of the air tube! He did agree to send me a complete set of o-rings so I can swap them all out and then go from there. If that doesn’t fix it then he wants me to send it back so they can see where it’s leaking.
I also explained how I had tested for leaks everywhere I could think of and found no evidence of a leak, yet it continues to lose air at a rate of 10 - 20 Bar per hour. I had sent him the pictures showing where it had lost 70 Bar overnight.
He does want to get to the bottom of the problem and assured me if they can’t fix it they will replace it, so I’m going to stick with it and see what happens.
-
Sounds to me like Aim Sports is stepping up to the plate in a very unfortunate situation.
Patience will be a virtue here. They didn't expect to have these issues either.
-
Since I agree to try and new regulator, when I got home decided to disassemble the gun again. Replaced o rings on each end of tube with the 70s and the regulator with the 90s, this time taking the valve out of the block so I could have the whole assembly in my hand to search better for leaks. Aired it up and this is what I found. Any thoughts on what has gone wrong?
-
Since I agree to try and new regulator, when I got home decided to disassemble the gun again. Replaced o rings on each end of tube with the 70s and the regulator with the 90s, this time taking the valve out of the block so I could have the whole assembly in my hand to search better for leaks. Aired it up and this is what I found. Any thoughts on what has gone wrong?
The poppet is not seating properly.
-
Can anything be done with this other than replace valve?
-
Interesting, if the poppet wasn't seating and it was leaking wouldn't you see bubbles from the end of the barrel?
-
Interesting, if the poppet wasn't seating and it was leaking wouldn't you see bubbles from the end of the barrel?
yes you would. It was leaking slowly at first. This time when I aired it up it was leaking much more rapidly. Took the poppet stem out, then the brass guide, brass guide had a gouged place on the bottom, wondering if that material is whats in there causing it not to seal? Cleaned and put it back together, aired it up, and now there's no noticeable leak, will let it set overnight to see if it losses air.
-
Yep, air can't get there unless it's going past the poppet in the valve. How does it look around the valve stem, could it be sticking partially? Don't remember who had said it but one of our guys was having problems with the valve because it was dry fired and bent the brass around the stem causing it to stick. I would empty the air so you can get a better look at the valve without air pressure being on it.
-
Posted at the same time, glad you found it, hope it holds for you.
-
Yep, air can't get there unless it's going past the poppet in the valve. How does it look around the valve stem, could it be sticking partially? Don't remember who had said it but one of our guys was having problems with the valve because it was dry fired and bent the brass around the stem causing it to stick. I would empty the air so you can get a better look at the valve without air pressure being on it.
See above Tom, this is exactly what I did. There was a gouged place on the brass guide, I am thinking that material is what is in there causing the poppet not to seat. Hopefully I got it out.
-
I asked because when I was checking for leaks earlier today I put a microfiber cloth soaked in soapy water over the end of the barrel with a rubber band to hold it in place and there were no bubbles at all. No bubbles anywhere else either, but it's still losing air. I suspect it will be empty by morning, so I may tear it down and look at the valve as well.
-
We are all learning together Paul. Before I wasn't taking the valve out the block and using on the tube, doing this made it easier to find, well that and the fact my leaking had gotten much worse.
-
We are all learning together Paul. Before I wasn't taking the valve out the block and using on the tube, doing this made it easier to find, well that and the fact my leaking had gotten much worse.
I'm doing a ballon test on the end of the barrel. If the valve is leaking, it should inflate the ballon, right?
-
Yes it should inflate the balloon. Had a thought, if you have a slow difficult to find leak, would it cause any harm to the tube if you just submerged it in water? With the pressure pushing outward I don't see how it could, of course you would want to dry and oil the valve & fill end afterwards.
-
Yes it should inflate the balloon. Had a thought, if you have a slow difficult to find leak, would it cause any harm to the tube if you just submerged it in water? With the pressure pushing outward I don't see how it could, of course you would want to dry and oil the valve & fill end afterwards.
I thought about doing just that. I’d have to fill the bathtub, it’s the only thing big enough. I guess I could also fill a bucket and just dip one end and then the other and see if there are any bubbles. I’ll see if the barrel ballon is inflated in the morning, so far it hasn’t filled at all. There’s 200 bar worth of air in the tube, it’s got to be going somewhere!
-
Air is like water in that it will take the route of least resistance to get out.
-
I'm the guy who told you not to EVER dry fire this rifle, as it will pinch the striker rod holder closed around the striker rod itself. Please read on if unsticking the striker rod holder doesn't stop the leak....
If you've got a leak, and have no signs of air escaping around the regulator, end caps, or gauge, you may need to increase the tension on the poppet valve spring. Take the air tube off the poppet housing. You will see a metal compression disc with four holes in it. Tighten it down untill the leak at the transfer port stops. I had to turn mine in untill it was close to 6mm deep from the top of the poppet valve housing. This also decreases your dwell time, so any tuning you've done is gonna have to be re-done.
That metal disc is what the poppet valve spring sits against. It's a terrible design, as the spring is not pinned in place by anything. The spring can migrate around the inside radius of the poppet valve chamber at an angle not straight on to the poppet valve and cause the cheap plastic poppet valve to not seat, or break. Ask how I know.
Also, that tension disk will walk itself out of the chamber over time. Lock-tite would have solved this, but as I said before, the design is completely FUBAR. You need to improvise a holding pin for the spring, and also put a thrust washer on the poppet valve where the super stiff, unfinished end, sharp as a knife, METAL poppet valve spring sits on the super-duper cheap, PLASTIC poppet valve itself. Like I said, the design is just wretched.
-
Yes it should inflate the balloon. Had a thought, if you have a slow difficult to find leak, would it cause any harm to the tube if you just submerged it in water? With the pressure pushing outward I don't see how it could, of course you would want to dry and oil the valve & fill end afterwards.
I thought about doing just that. I’d have to fill the bathtub, it’s the only thing big enough. I guess I could also fill a bucket and just dip one end and then the other and see if there are any bubbles. I’ll see if the barrel ballon is inflated in the morning, so far it hasn’t filled at all. There’s 200 bar worth of air in the tube, it’s got to be going somewhere!
The problem with the barrel balloon as I thought about what mine was doing is that air will escape also from breach around the bolt probe too, might not go down the barrel to the balloon. I did as you said last night, took me a cup deep enough, put water in it and submerged each end of the air tube in it, saw no bubbles. Doesn't appear any air is missing this morning, will wait till this evening and check again, at this point I am so gun shy I just expect it to fail at any moment.
-
I'm the guy who told you not to EVER dry fire this rifle, as it will pinch the striker rod holder closed around the striker rod itself. Please read on if unsticking the striker rod holder doesn't stop the leak....
If you've got a leak, and have no signs of air escaping around the regulator, end caps, or gauge, you may need to increase the tension on the poppet valve spring. Take the air tube off the poppet housing. You will see a metal compression disc with four holes in it. Tighten it down untill the leak at the transfer port stops. I had to turn mine in untill it was close to 6mm deep from the top of the poppet valve housing. This also decreases your dwell time, so any tuning you've done is gonna have to be re-done.
That metal disc is what the poppet valve spring sits against. It's a terrible design, as the spring is not pinned in place by anything. The spring can migrate around the inside radius of the poppet valve chamber at an angle not straight on to the poppet valve and cause the cheap plastic poppet valve to not seat, or break. Ask how I know.
Also, that tension disk will walk itself out of the chamber over time. Lock-tite would have solved this, but as I said before, the design is completely FUBAR. You need to improvise a holding pin for the spring, and also put a thrust washer on the poppet valve where the super stiff, unfinished end, sharp as a knife, METAL poppet valve spring sits on the super-duper cheap, PLASTIC poppet valve itself. Like I said, the design is just wretched.
Thanks Mike you are a wealth of knowledge on how these things go together and are suppose to work.
-
This info is very helpful. I think I'll tear into it again today and have a look at the valve and see if it's leaking. No air in the ballon this morning, but lost about 40 Bar of air overnight, so it may be exiting at the bolt probe if my leak is at the valve like yours. Hopefully yours will still be holding air tonight. Thanks to David, Tom and Mike, we may figure these things out after all!
-
I may have found the source of my leak! Based on Mike's comments and Tom's findings, I disassembled the valve to have a look at what was going on. The first thing I noticed was both the retaining disk Mike talked about and the brass poppet valve guide were very loose!
I removed both and pulled the poppet to see if there was debris like Tom found, thankfully, there wasn't. But, the plastic poppet head sure wasn't square on the end of the shaft and since it's a very hard plastic, I suspect it is not seating evenly and that's where the leak is coming from.
I reassembled it, tightened the brass valve guide and applied a drop of blue locktite to the retainer disk and snugged it up against the spring. It could have gone much further, but I have no idea how tight it really needs to be.
I aired it back up to 200 Bar and put my rubber glove finger over the end of the valve and the transfer port and am letting it sit to see if it fills the finger with air.
I e-mailed Ryan also and sent him the picture of the poppet, hopefully, they have some spares and he can send me one that sits square on the shaft when he sends the o-rings. It would be great to get this resolved!
-
Well I am almost afraid to say it but the Dar.25 is holding air. Got home from work and it was still at the same pressure I filled it to yesterday 170-180 bar, wasn't able to get a 200 bar fill because tank is low. Mounted scope and now to see what happens when I shoot tomorrow. Already having remorse for not disassembling down to the poppet before putting back together, we shall see what happens, used my other tank to finish filling to 200 bar and let it sit again overnight.
-
That is encouraging news David! Mine was still holding air this afternoon so I ran two magazines of H&N Sniper Mediums through it. It dropped from 200 Bar to about 170 Bar, so I should easily get 3-4 magazines on a fill. I topped it off and will let it sit overnight and see what it looks like in the morning. I wonder if the loose retainer plug and valve guide had more to do with the leak than the o-rings?
While I had it apart this morning, I put some RWS Chamber oil on the contact points in the trigger assembly. I haven't mustered enough courage to take it apart to polish the contact surfaces, so I thought the oil would help some, and it did. The trigger was much smoother. Accuracy is getting better too. I was getting 1" groups at 50 yards. If I can get the leaking under control, this should prove to be an exceptional air rifle!
-
Glad to hear you are seeing some success to Paul, I think we were do something other than frustration for a change. Aired mine up totally to 200 bar and it is still holding there, mounted me a scope and hoping to get outside with it tomorrow and run me some magazines through it while I site it in.
-
i realize this reply is late, but I highly doubt a balloon over the barrel (shroud) would fill with air from a poppet leaking.
This is because I also highly doubt the shroud is air tight around the breech end of the barrel.
just food for thought.
-
i realize this reply is late, but I highly doubt a balloon over the barrel (shroud) would fill with air from a poppet leaking.
This is because I also highly doubt the shroud is air tight around the breech end of the barrel.
just food for thought.
Ron, I thought of that as well and I think you're correct in your thinking. I tried it because it did work when I have a bad seal on the poppet of my Marauder. Obviously the Marauder shroud sealed better than the DAR did.
It's still holding air this morning, or at least better than it was. It's down maybe 50 Bar from full, but this could be from the air cooling in the air tube overnight. I did fill it with my YH compressor, so that air does get warm filling to 200 Bar. I still think it needs a new poppet that sits square on the end of the shaft, I've not received a reply from Ryan since I sent him the picture of my cockeyed poppet yesterday morning.
-
Well my viton 75 orings went south! I guess its time for a full and complete tear down, measure everything and locktite any suggestions and pointer so i dont miss anything would be great
Mike
-
Go back and reread the posts from the last couple of day, specifically those about the valve and poppet. The Dura90 o-Rings seem to be holding well for me, I used them on the regulator and both ends of the air tube. Don’t tighten the set screw closest to the trigger guard, that will seize the poppet valve, otherwise make sure all others are good and tight. With the o-Rings and everything on the valve snugged down, hopefully you will be set. So far that seems to be working on mine.
-
Paul I'll be out in the morning testing how good the H&N Sniper Magnums work with the .177, last time I was out with it I got a red squirrel with the EunJin's.
-
Well here is where I am at now: Had it holding air on my last report, held it for a couple of days before I got around to doing some shooting. Set up my target to zero my scope, started at 10-15 yards and got it close with 2 shots, then moved out to 25 yds and my last adjustments put me right on, so I decided to finish the mag, I was shooting off sticks because my table wasn't available, so I knew my accuracy would suffer some, began to fire them off got to shot 9 and they were grouping real well and I am telling myself don't mess this up with the last shot, well shot 10 did go awry but it was because it gave way as I felt the air rushing out the breach.
Break it back down but this time I take the poppet, spring out, as others have said the retaining screw wasn't tight. Poppet, spring, both looked good to me nothing I could see was wrong. So I put it all back together, aired it back up, poppet still not sealing as air is coming out the port again. Scratches head and take it apart again, this time take a fine nail file and gently file on the poppet surface thinking there might be something there that I might be missing. Put it back together air it up and still leaking. So I think maybe I am not geting retainer tight enough on spring, so this time I screw it all the way down, then back out 4 or 5 turns to where it feels like poppet is opening and closing smoothly, air it back again and this time success it is holding air.
All this time I have been taking pictures and communicating with Ryan. Honestly I can't say he has been much help, the best help has been this forum and the kind members who have taken time and shared their knowledge with the rest of us. Ryan just seems to want more pictures. How much do you need to see to know that I have a problem with my poppet seating? Shouldn't he be at least sending out a poppet, complete valve, or something to help me fix this gun? Seems like a nice guy but I am not sure he knows a lot about these guns. Seems to be long on conversation and short on getting parts out to try and get a gun fixed. I am now worried that the stall game I feel is happening is because the parts aren't available.
-
They (Aim Sport) have a fix for the poppet valve. I know this, cause my buddy two farms over also bought the .22 around the same time as I did. Actually, his wife got it for him for his birthday. He Had the same problem with the poppet valve, and said the exact same thing about the spring being way too strong, and moving around the poppet valve chamber. Wound up with a broken poppet valve, like me.
So I guess he went a couple or six rounds with Ryan, gave up on trying to get anything replaced under warranty and just BOUGHT $100.00 worth of spare parts. They came today, and he brought his .22 over to my place to help him. He's 70 and his eyesight isn't that great anymore. So here's what he bought: a new reg, as his sealed fine, but the cylinder was drilled at a slight angle and the piston wouldn't move. Three or four new poppet valves and striker rods, two of the four holed valve spring keeper disks and two new poppet valve springs....
Guess what? The springs they sent aren't what came with either of our guns. They are cone shaped, with the small end a tight fit over the poppet valve, and the big end the EXACT inside diameter of the keeper disk. So now the poppet valve is always centered. The springs are also "progressive rate", and actually work. How long did they plan on keeping this a secret?
Long story short, we both have two really nice shooting guns now. Guess all it took was an old farmer (I didn't know this till I saw a hand written note to him from Rocker1, but Rocker affectionately refers to Rob as Country A@@ Redneck...) who just decided to pick his battles and just shell out some $ to get what he wanted. He doesn't seem to care, but it really gets my hackles up.
-
They (Aim Sport) have a fix for the poppet valve. I know this, cause my buddy two farms over also bought the .22 around the same time as I did. Actually, his wife got it for him for his birthday. He Had the same problem with the poppet valve, and said the exact same thing about the spring being way too strong, and moving around the poppet valve chamber. Wound up with a broken poppet valve, like me.
So I guess he went a couple or six rounds with Ryan, gave up on trying to get anything replaced under warranty and just BOUGHT $100.00 worth of spare parts. They came today, and he brought his .22 over to my place to help him. He's 70 and his eyesight isn't that great anymore. So here's what he bought: a new reg, as his sealed fine, but the cylinder was drilled at a slight angle and the piston wouldn't move. Three or four new poppet valves and striker rods, two of the four holed valve spring keeper disks and two new poppet valve springs....
Guess what? The springs they sent aren't what came with either of our guns. They are cone shaped, with the small end a tight fit over the poppet valve, and the big end the EXACT inside diameter of the keeper disk. So now the poppet valve is always centered. The springs are also "progressive rate", and actually work. How long did they plan on keeping this a secret?
Long story short, we both have two really nice shooting guns now. Guess all it took was an old farmer (I didn't know this till I saw a hand written note to him from Rocker1, but Rocker affectionately refers to Rob as Country A@@ Redneck...) who just decided to pick his battles and just shell out some $ to get what he wanted. He doesn't seem to care, but it really gets my hackles up.
The cone shaped spring is what's inside mine. That just isn't right for a customer to have to shell out his own hard earned money to get a working gun when you paid for one already. This this is starting to feel like a sham. Ryan does nothing but stall, asking questions and asking for pictures, yet at no point does he talk about "X part is on the way to you, give it a try."
-
Robs been married for over 50 years. Says he didn't want to bother with fighting with someone he wasn't married to, with the same outcome...
Here's something I forgot to mention. Apparently you've got to get the poppet valve to take an initial seat, as the valve is hard plastic sealing against a slightly countersunk aluminum surface.We put the air tubes together as assemblies, regs installed, both end caps, etc. Good luck doing the next part without a compressor: fire up the compressor, and soon enough you'll start to get air coming out the transfer port. Take a small hammer or piece of aluminum rod, or whatever is handy and start tapping the striker rod. After two or three hard taps, both our guns filled fine. Btw, we sank the keeper disc 5mm down from the top of the poppet valve chamber.
Shot my .22 down to 1000psi, then degassed it with the bleed screw on the bottom of the poppet valve chamber. Cocked the gun, and it aired right back up. It's sitting at 3200psi now. I'll report back tomorrow to tell you if it held air overnite.
-
I got mine holding air too now. After I get home from work tomorrow I will put it back together and try some shooting it and see if it holds up this time. I wonder why mine didn't seat when I had it holding air? It seated 9 straight shots but came loose on the 10th.
-
What I want to know is why they didn't bevel/truncate the poppet valve and its seat. Seems to me that getting a pretty much flat, hard plastic valve to seat into even harder anodized aluminum, even if it is ever so slightly beveled just shows lack of any kind of engineering skill.
-
That's what I thought as I looked at the poppet and valve seat, "how in the world is this thing going to seat?" Worse possible design, no seat that can readily be seen for the hard plastic poppet that appears mostly flat to seat in. I don't know why all of the guns don't leak from an unseated poppet.
-
Paul I'll be out in the morning testing how good the H&N Sniper Magnums work with the .177, last time I was out with it I got a red squirrel with the EunJin's.
Wayne, the sniper magnums did okay in minor, but thr sniper mediums are the best I have found thus far.
-
I still haven’t heard back from Ryan since sending him a picture of my crooked poppet. My spring isn’t cone shaped either, just a straight spring that doesn’t appear to be centered which is probably why my poppet is crooked. Any idea the cost of Judy the cone shaped spring and a new poppet? That’s probably all I need to fix my leak!
-
I sent Ryan an email too but never heard back from him ??? So are parts available for these now?
-
Wayne I have become very doubtful on them having parts. Ryan IMHO is playing the stall game, emailing back and forth but never saying "here try these parts". Is there a single gun on this forum or anywhere that Ryan was instrumental in fixing?
-
I'm still waiting on the promised parts thought they'd have come yesterday, now looking to Monday. Also didn't get an email indicating they'd been shipped like they did when they replaced the first rifle. I know what all to check for besides the leaking regulator now, will make certain parts are secured on the valve before reassembly when parts do come. Hadn't had any problems there but no reason to let it start.
-
Mike (TheSaint) needs to ask his neighbor who he ordered the parts from. I think if I get a new poppet and cone shaped spring, I should be good to go. It would be nice to get them free from Aim Sports, but I wonder if they even have any on hand. I'm still waiting on the o-rings they are sending me, but I now doubt the o-rings were as much of the problem as the valve is. Since tightening both ends of the valve, the leak has slowed considerably, but I still think some is getting past the misaligned poppet.
-
I had my 177 out this morning and man is that thing accurate, I managed to get a red squirrel with it too, I was shooting the H&N Sniper Magnums.
-
Great shooting Wayne! Another good pellet I found was the Crosman Gold Tips. Similar to the H&N Hornets, they pack a heck of a punch and are quite accurate at 50 yards.
-
Update from yesterday: Both of our rifles didn't lose a single pound of air overnite. And Aim Sports HAVE spare parts, they just have no intention of giving any away. I asked rob who he talked to and he said Ryan. Told me he was emailing and on the phone with him at least two or three times a day for almost two weeks. Ryan said they had "limited parts" that they were saving for warranty work. Ryan's tune changed 180deg when rob said he was tired of the bull manure and would just buy the parts he needed.
These part numbers come right off the invoice Ryan sent rob.
Quantity 1. Item 002-REGAS, Regulator Assembly. Unit price $90.00
3. 002-0107, Poppet Valve Assembly. $0.00
3. 002-0108, Poppet Valve Rod. $0.00
1. 002-0061, Barrel Band. $0.00
1. 002-0602, Barrel Band Set Screw Set. $0.00
What I didn't know til this morning is that they also sent him the two cone style poppet valve springs and two spring keeper discs. Those were free of charge, too. But no parts numbers. They also sent a complete poppet valve chamber assembly that had all the bits in it, also for nothing. He's of the impression that it came off the same rifle that the regulator came out of.
Rob said that as soon as he emailed Ryan telling him that the invoice was okay, one of Aim Sports secretaries called him almost immediately, took his credit card info and told him shipping was gonna be another $3.50. This was last Wednesday afternoon, Central time. He got the package yesterday. So two days total.
I asked rob why he thought they sent him the extra goodies. He said that he mentioned to Ryan that he only lives a three and a half hour drive from Sprotsmans Guide's Corporate HQ in St. Paul MN. Said he might of also mentioned that it'd probably not go over so well if him and a half dozen or so angry old farmers, all of them 'Nam combat vets, showed up at SG's office and started complaining. Loudly. Don't know if you guys in the Cities know any farmers, especially the old ones, but they're the nicest guys in the world, til they're not. Then very bad things start to happen, very quickly.
So robs happy. I'm happy that he shared parts with me, cause I got NOWHERE with Aim Sports or SG for that matter. But I still don't thing he should have paid a dime. However, I'm not about to argue with my friend. Partially cause I like my nose and teeth in their current positions, lol!
-
Just wow, charging a customer for parts because "we want to save them for our warranty work"? Isn't that what we all are doing here? New rifles where some didn't work correctly out the box if at all or soon had issues not long after coming out the box.
-
Yeah, really nice customer service. Here's the catch-22. The second you crack open the rifle its out of warranty. In order to get warranty service you've got to get permission from Aim Sports, who never return emails or phone calls. If you do manage, you have to fight with them to get them to pay shipping. Then, you've got a very good chance of getting a rifle back that still doesn't work, or a new rifle with the same problems. SG has basically washed its hands of the issue. All they do is tell you to contact Rich Neighbor at Aim Sport. Good luck with that. And Ryan is a flat out Corporate Toady/conman in my opinion.
If somehow you do get permission to work on your own gun, forget about getting parts support. Unless you're willing to pay for it, in which case they're the easiest people on the planet to deal with.
It's too bad. This rifle really does have tremendous potential. But making it live up to that potential is gonna be a total DIY thing.
-
I’m going to give Ryan a call tomorrow and talk to him about the poppet and valve spring. If I can get a hold of him I’ll see what he has to say. Worse case, the poppet, shaft and spring can’t be that much, even with shipping. I just really want this rifle to work as it should because it really is a nice little rifle for the money. If SG continues to get complaints about Customer Service and Warranty repairs, I really can’t see them continuing to carry the Dynamic line for very long. I just hope they carry it long enough for me to get a couple spare magazines!
-
I’m going to give Ryan a call tomorrow and talk to him about the poppet and valve spring. If I can get a hold of him I’ll see what he has to say. Worse case, the poppet, shaft and spring can’t be that much, even with shipping. I just really want this rifle to work as it should because it really is a nice little rifle for the money. If SG continues to get complaints about Customer Service and Warranty repairs, I really can’t see them continuing to carry the Dynamic line for very long. I just hope they carry it long enough for me to get a couple spare magazines!
UPDATE: I received a reply to my e-mail to Ryan. He is shipping me the parts I need as part of my Warranty Claim. He also apologized for the delay as he is getting hit hard due to these QC issues. He did say that a warranty claim needs to be established before they can fix the issues. It sounded like he's getting a lot of requests for parts based on posts to this Forum. If you haven't done so, be sure to request warranty coverage for any problems you may be having.
I will say I am happy and satisfied with the service I have received from Ryan and Aim sports. Hopefully, the factory is making adjustments and these issues will be resolved going forward. I really want to get a .25 also, but I'll wait a while till I know these things have been addressed.
-
I had the 177 out again this morning shooting JSB Monsters and man does it like em, I got a red squirrel today with it again.
-
I’m going to give Ryan a call tomorrow and talk to him about the poppet and valve spring. If I can get a hold of him I’ll see what he has to say. Worse case, the poppet, shaft and spring can’t be that much, even with shipping. I just really want this rifle to work as it should because it really is a nice little rifle for the money. If SG continues to get complaints about Customer Service and Warranty repairs, I really can’t see them continuing to carry the Dynamic line for very long. I just hope they carry it long enough for me to get a couple spare magazines!
UPDATE: I received a reply to my e-mail to Ryan. He is shipping me the parts I need as part of my Warranty Claim. He also apologized for the delay as he is getting hit hard due to these QC issues. He did say that a warranty claim needs to be established before they can fix the issues. It sounded like he's getting a lot of requests for parts based on posts to this Forum. If you haven't done so, be sure to request warranty coverage for any problems you may be having.
I will say I am happy and satisfied with the service I have received from Ryan and Aim sports. Hopefully, the factory is making adjustments and these issues will be resolved going forward. I really want to get a .25 also, but I'll wait a while till I know these things have been addressed.
Good news Paul. I believe I have mine narrowed down to bad poppet, so far nothing from Ryan today. Guess he alternate between responding to emails, probably just not enough time to respond to all the complaints he is getting.
-
So I received an email from Ryan today after we talked Wen about replacing the orings with the 90d.. (Hello Mike, after some deliberation over the weekend we have decided it would be best to put your rifle through the standard warranty process. This will allow us to inspect your issue in person and ensure that you get a functioning rifle. Could we have the address the rifle will be shipping from?) Il be surprised if they warranty it after i disassembled it to put the orings on the regulator. If they dont Its my fault .. I think its great that Ryan & Aim sport is trying to make everyone happy with their rifles!
Mike
-
I won't be revealing the source of the information that I am about to reveal, but..............
- As I have heard, there were 400 guns in the first batch to hit the market.
- Of those 400 guns, more than 300 have been sold and are in service.
- Of those 300+ guns, less than 10 buyers have reported having chronic problems.
So, it would seem that, while some guns do have aggravating issues, the numbers of those guns are within reasonable numbers for problems associated with first issue guns?
Of course, if you happen to be one of those owners, it's a given that you would be quite put out over the situation.
Those whom have had dealings with customer service seem to have, for the most part, been treated courteously and fairly by AimSport CS, although perhaps not so much by SportsmansGuide CS.
My personal opinion is that SG should honor a return policy for guns that did not arrive in working order, or which failed quickly after arrival. It owes that courtesy to its customers. SG should then take up that issue with AimSport!
AimSport, does have the obligation to provide warranty repairs to all guns.
Guns that have been tinkered with, without first seeking the advanced permission of AimSport, void all warranties, and the guys who have done so should already know this.
-
I find this hard to believe. When you talk to Ryan he says he is swamped under dealing with issues, don't believe 10 guns would do this.
-
I have been following this gate since day one and I would like to think the next batch of DAR Dynamic air rifles will have the details improved/resolved.
One thing I have not seen; maybe I missed it. Can these airguns be decocked? How many of the problems might be caused by dry firing them?
I did see the post saying NEVER DRY FIRE AN AIRGUN. I did not see any replies denying that they had done so?
Will SG offer free returns of airguns that have not been tinkered with in the 30 day window like the other suppliers offer?
I am surprised that Wayne aka Gertrude is having terrific results with power and accuracy. Luck of the draw?
These airguns seem to be the best bargain out there if they fix the leaking poppet issues.
Why are there no reviews at SG yet?
-
I have been following this gate since day one and I would like to think the next batch of DAR Dynamic air rifles will have the details improved/resolved.
One thing I have not seen; maybe I missed it. Can these airguns be decocked? How many of the problems might be caused by dry firing them?
I did see the post saying NEVER DRY FIRE AN AIRGUN. I did not see any replies denying that they had done so?
Will SG offer free returns of airguns that have not been tinkered with in the 30 day window like the other suppliers offer?
I am surprised that Wayne aka Gertrude is having terrific results with power and accuracy. Luck of the draw?
These airguns seem to be the best bargain out there if they fix the leaking poppet issues.
Why are there no reviews at SG yet?
Just for clarity, Wayne is "Wayne52", and not the same as myself (Gertrude).
Yes, I have been having some impressive results from this rifle, and although I have seen some of the QC issues that others have described, I feel they are minor design flaws by the MANUFACTURER that can be easily and cost effectively corrected. I also feel that Aim Sports HAS demonstrated good customer service and reasonable response times. I feel that Aim Sports is so.ewhat "caught in the middle", with this first batch of rifles, and they are doing the best they can with the very limited supply of parts they CURRENTLY have on hand. I do think it will get better.
Aim Sports is not solely a air gun distributor. They.are new to the world of Airguns, and certainly did not anticipate the issues that a few of these guns have experienced.
I feel the DAR guns have a LOT of potential, and show promise of being a VERY GOOD VALUE,for a VERY REASONABLE price point, once a few bugs gets worked out.
I have reached out to Aim Sports to offer my help in accomplishing that goal. I am actively working with the one gun I currently have to identify problem areas for quality improvement suggestions to them. My group of shooting friends have ordered 4 more.of these guns that we should be receiving this week. My buddies will undoubtedly be looming to me to make any changes or improvents needed on those rifles as well.
I realize that a handful of other customers have been very frustrated with the rifles, and have been quite vocal about it. I do believe that some of the problem issues were misdiagnosed and attempts to correct the problems they were seeing were not effective. That is unfortunate, and really should not be a black eye on the gun OR Aim Sports.
I do hope that Aim Sports takes my offer of help into consideration.
My biggest fear is that they could decide it is not worth it to continue supplying these airguns.
That would be a real shame.
Again, I DO FEEL these guns have a lot of potential. They just need to have a few minor issues corrected. Once that happens, I feel they could certainly secure a solid place in the Airgun market.
Just my thoughts.
-
Deerflyguy,
Anonymous Sources. You sound like you work in Politics/MSM.
Names, or it didn't happen.
Ron. So you're looking for a "side gig" with Aim Sports?
You didn't get a &^^&-O-la gun, and go thru a tidal wave of &$@$ trying to get your problem solved. Thanks for the oh so helpful input to those of us whom do have issues with this product.
Do you always have to be RIGHT, or are you just that way on the interwebs?
-
I have been following this gate since day one and I would like to think the next batch of DAR Dynamic air rifles will have the details improved/resolved.
One thing I have not seen; maybe I missed it. Can these airguns be decocked? How many of the problems might be caused by dry firing them?
I did see the post saying NEVER DRY FIRE AN AIRGUN. I did not see any replies denying that they had done so?
Will SG offer free returns of airguns that have not been tinkered with in the 30 day window like the other suppliers offer?
I am surprised that Wayne aka Gertrude is having terrific results with power and accuracy. Luck of the draw?
These airguns seem to be the best bargain out there if they fix the leaking poppet issues.
Why are there no reviews at SG yet?
Charles, I'll try to address some of your questions below...
Can these airguns be decocked? Yes, pull the trigger while holding the cocking lever to the rear and then let it ride forward until closed.
Will SG offer free returns of airguns that have not been tinkered with in the 30 day window like the other suppliers offer? While I did not try to return mine since Aim Sports is taking care of me, but I do have the box next to my order that I can click for a return. Will it work? At this point I don't know.
Why are there no reviews at SG yet? There are actually 2 reviews under the .22 Model, a 5 star rating and a 1 star rating. I have personally submitted 2 different reviews for the .177 Model, yet neither has appeared yet. I gave it 3 star rating just because of the QC issues with the o-rings and poppet. But other than that gave it good rating.
-
Deerflyguy,
Anonymous Sources. You sound like you work in Politics/MSM.
Names, or it didn't happen.
Ron. So you're looking for a "side gig" with Aim Sports?
You didn't get a &^^&-O-la gun, and go thru a tidal wave of &$@$ trying to get your problem solved. Thanks for the oh so helpful input to those of us whom do have issues with this product.
Wow Mike, having a bad day?
Wow Mike, having a bad day?
Do you always have to be RIGHT, or are you just that way on the interwebs?
-
Ron, you make some excellent points! Aim Sports has been pretty responsive to my needs and I should have the parts I need to fix mine by the end of the week.
As I see it there were 3 distinct issues with mine.
1. Cheap o-rings. The set that came in it blew a chunk out of one of the regulator o-rings. The spares provided with the air rifle didn't last either. I tried some #117 Dura 70 o-rings, but they didn't hold air. I think this is pretty well fixed with the Dura 90 o-rings
2. The valve, part 1... My poppet is misaligned and the valve spring may have been part of the problem. Other reported having a cone shaped spring that helped keep the poppet centered. My spring was just a regular spring and it slides to one side which may have caused the poppet to become misaligned. Ryan is sending me a new poppet and a cone shaped spring, so that should completely fix the slow leak I still have.
3. The valve, part 2... Both the retainer disk that hold the spring against the poppet and the brass sleeve the poppet shaft sits in were very loose. I believe that this also contributed to the air leak because once tightened, the leak slowed even further. If the retainer disk had stayed tight, the spring may not have shifted off center and caused my poppet to become misaligned.
To summarize, I feel that those still having problems can probably get a fully functional air rifle by just replacing the regulator o-rings with #117 Dura 90 o-rings and ensuring the retainer disk and brass sleeves are tightened. I did put a drop of blue locktite on the threads of each to preclude future loosening.
-
Deerflyguy,
Anonymous Sources. You sound like you work in Politics/MSM.
Names, or it didn't happen.
Ron. So you're looking for a "side gig" with Aim Sports?
You didn't get a &^^&-O-la gun, and go thru a tidal wave of &$@$ trying to get your problem solved. Thanks for the oh so helpful input to those of us whom do have issues with this product.
Do you always have to be RIGHT, or are you just that way on the interwebs?
This is completely uncalled for and serves no benefit to the issues, the members, nor this discussion.
-
Guys with working guns sitting around trying to convince guys with problem guns how great these guns and customer service is, will illicit an angry response. Basically trying to say there's nothing to see here.
Some guy saying that only 10 out of 300 sold has been a problem at the same time that Ryan at Aim Sports openly tells he is swamped with problems.
These guns have issues and anyone denying this either has their head in sand or a built in agenda that makes them pro Aim Sports.
I have never bought a gun from anywhere that I have had for this long and not been able to shoot it.
-
Kingrude1.
Amen.
-
Discussion is healthy...as long as you keep it that!!!
Seems there are some problem guns in this batch. Let's work together to discuss and hopefully help the issue, not cloud it with personal attacks of different opinions and results.
I will take this opportunity to remind EVERYONE that all posts on this forum WILL remain respectful. And I will advise folks to take a refresher look at the forum rules.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0)
Pay very particular attention to Rule #1. And it's rule #1 for a reason.
Also refresh yourself with rules 2 & 13. This post will serve as a public warning. Any further violation of these rules by anyone involved in this thread will be dealt with accordingly.
So, with that said, let's keep the helpful discussion going while keeping the unnecessary junk OUT!!!
-
The biggest gripe that I have about my DAR's is the 25 was so badly corroded from salt air I'm sure, I still haven't been able to get the lever pin out of it but I might have some luck trying a torx on it after a long soaking of penetrating oil. Right now I've got the scope back on it cause I plan on trying out some H&N's and other cast pellet sortings. Both of mine flat out had to have new o rings in them though cause what was in them didn't work. The odd part of it is the serial number on the .177 is 6 whereas the .25 is 74. The only scenario I can think of is the .25 box must have been exposed to the elements more because the .177 is immaculate compared to it.
-
I completely agree that there are some QC and fundamental design issues that need to be addressed for these guns to show their full potential.
Others have shared several of their findings, and I have started to list some of my findings and concerns here,
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.0)
As my trigger and tinker time allows, I intend to continue defining the discrepancies (and/or potential discrepancies) for the purpose of improving the performance and function of these rifles. Hopefully it will be to the benefit of all who have purchased, or are considering purchasing one of these rifles.
-
Any one else get the return email notice from aim sports ? I just received an email that they want my DAR22 back and sent a return shipping tag! I hope they can get it to work like it should . I really like this gun and talk about shoot well and It is just a fun gun!
-
Yes I got that email too. After trying everything I could think of the gun just wouldn't seal. So it will be heading to Aim Sports via UPS today.
-
I didn't get an e-mail with an RMA, but the parts I need should arrive today. Hopefully they will fix my leak and I won't have to send it back. I hope you both get trouble free rifles after all you've been through!
-
I was fortunate to have two of them that sealed great with the 90duro o rings and neither one of them has dumped since.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1775/43356677604_1c559ef024_b.jpg)
-
It's a beautiful thing! These arrived today and are about to be installed!
-
Congratulations I hope this stops your leak and you can get on to the business of shooting your gun!!
-
Thanks David! I ran 3 magazines through it and have aired it back up and will let it sit for a day and see what happens. Big difference in these springs! Below is a picture of the new poppet and spring next to the old poppet and spring.
The last remaining issue I have is the crack in the magazine cover, but since the spare magazines are still on the slow boat from China, I may have to deal with it and hope it stays together.
-
Looking at my poppet you would think they would have made a taper seat and tapered the valve.. Would be a great upgrade in the future..
-
I did a little reading about valve design, the reason for the concave surface is so it takes very little pressure to knock the valve open as only the outer edge of the poppet is making a seal. Apparently this is not an uncommon design.
Sad to say my parts didn't arrive today, Ryan emailed on Monday that the parts were being shipped that day, supposed to have been shipped three day but UPS never showed, maybe tomorrow. :(
-
Paul, how far in did you screw the valve spring retainer disc? How many threads did you leave showing or did you just guess at the depth? I had asked Ryan this question but didn't get an answer on that one. I did put locktite on the brass poppet guide as it was already loose, didn't want it to get bent by the hammer impact.
-
Paul, how far in did you screw the valve spring retainer disc? How many threads did you leave showing or did you just guess at the depth? I had asked Ryan this question but didn't get an answer on that one. I did put locktite on the brass poppet guide as it was already loose, didn't want it to get bent by the hammer impact.
Tom, I have asked the same question, waiting to see if I get an answer. I suspect he probably doesn't know. I have my disc tightened to about 3 threads inside the valve body are showing, so not much beyond flush. I put a drop of locktite on both the brass guide and the disc. So far it's holding air and shooting good. It like the Winchester Domes and H&N Sniper Mediums the best.
-
DAR poppet valve fix.
While I was writing up this post, I noticed some of you received a new valve with a conical spring; I hope they fix your leaks, but my gun came with the conical spring and developed a leak after about 3 weeks. If after replacing your valve and spring, you still have a leaking valve this post may help.
I determined my valve was leaking by removing the air tube from gun, airing it up and immersing it in a bucket of water. There was a steady stream of bubbles coming from the transfer port and the end of the poppet valve. No other leaks were visible.
I degasses the tube via the small set screw on the valve closest to the tube. I then removed the valve assembly from the tube. I then disassembled the valve assembly. My gun did have the conical spring.
The first thing I noticed, the spring was canted on the valve and the end coil had gouged into the plastic to such a degree that there was a thread of plastic hanging from the spring and valve. First, I used a small Swiss file to knock off the sharp edge on the end of the spring. Then I ground the top coil down until it was sitting flat on the valve. Though maybe not as important, I also ground the large end of the spring flat.
Next, I used a Dermel and 600 grit lapping compound to seat the valve with the valve seat. To accomplish this I used a Q-tip to apply some lapping compound onto the valve surface where it mates with the seat. I inserted the valve into the valve body with the end of the rod sticking out of the (oiled) guide bushing. I then chucked the rod into my Dremel (standard 1/8” collet), and held the valve body in one hand and turned on Dremel. The idea is to use the abrasive to mate the two surfaces, so pull the rotating valve into the valve seat. After about 30 seconds, I turned off tool, un-chucked stem, removed valve, reapplied abrasive, and repeated process. I didn’t want to overdo it so only did it twice. Apparently, it was enough.
I cleaned everything with Ballistol, rags and patches. Before reassembly, I lightly oiled spring, valve and valve stem with silicone oil. I then greased o-ring and put poppet valve assembly back into air tube. I then aired up air tube. As it was airing up, I dipped the valve end into water bucket; a steady stream of bubbles was coming from the valve. So, with the gauge end sitting on a foam pad, I took a hardwood stick and gave the valve stem that was sticking out a whack (recommended by another member) resulting in a loud crack, and a release of air. I then tipped the valve end back into the bucket of water; the bubbles had diminished. I repeated, and after three whacks, the valve had seated and no more bubbles.
Since I seated the valve, (three days ago) I have had no signs of leaks. I have aired it up three times and shot it down, aired it up, left it overnight each time and it has held air. As they say, your millage may vary, but it has worked for me (so far).
-
Hoople , that pretty much describes the process I use when I make new valve poppers from PEEK. Some sel up on the first attempt some take a few tries .
-
Hobbyman, you lost me, I am clueless. lol. But I do prefer the term remodify.
-
Wow , I just reread my post . I swear I’m not dislexic. I’m gonna blame the auto correct on my phone . What I meant to say was that burnishing a valve poppet with an abrasive is usually a good practice even with a hard material such as PEEK. I however use low RPM with a cordless drill .
-
Without a good airtank and adaptor I probably would have had a tough time sealing both of mine up cause it takes a jolt of air to even seal the poppets IMO, when they're seated they're good to go until I degass them.
Next time just for the heck of it I'll try pumping one up by hand from the get go and see if I have any luck. Now that both poppets are broken in good it might just work fine but before break in I doubt it would be too easy.
-
Without a good airtank and adaptor I probably would have had a tough time sealing both of mine up cause it takes a jolt of air to even seal the poppets IMO, when they're seated they're good to go until I degass them.
Next time just for the heck of it I'll try pumping one up by hand from the get go and see if I have any luck. Now that both poppets are broken in good it might just work fine but before break in I doubt it would be too easy.
Yep, 100% agreed
-
Ron there's probably a good chance that if these guns had been shipped with air in them there probably wouldn't be the poppet problems because that way the poppets would have had a better chance to seat better. I'll probably be buying the newer short 25 cal pellet mold that NOE is making and for sure I'm going to get their 22 cal pellet mold. I'll probably get the 22 cal first though.
-
we just received the next 4 that we ordered.
3 of those 4 are suffering from some various leaking issues.
we took 2 of those 3 apart yesterday. We are seeing some various discrepancies in the orings that I will detail after we investigate it a little more. what I will say for now is that it appears the chinese origs are "coming apart" or "splitting" rather that being torn/chipped/broken during assembly. Looks kind of strange. kind of like the orings are deteriorating under pressure.
Bad rubber compound (?) of the oring ? , ... I don't know yet.
I have exchanged a few emails with Ryan today, and he is also interested to learn what our findings will be. He is being very receptive and demonstrating very good customer service in a timely manner. I have no complaints with his service.
We may go see him this weekend, or next week, to show him our findings.
-
The o rings that came with both of mine aren't good at all, like you say they crack at the seams and chunks break out of them. If I knew what kind of o rings were on the SS valves I'll bet the right sized one of those would work good, I know they're hard but I don't know what they're made from but they're clear. The BunaN90duro seem to be just fine for the regulator, on the ends I'm using BunaN70duro and they're holding up really good as well.
-
we took the factory supplied chinese replacement orings, to a local oring supplier today.
They measured the chinee orings and said they were not in spec for either metric or SAE standard.
in other words, they were oddball in size.
They tried to match them with good quality alternatives as best as possible, leaning/favoring to thicker or bigger in sizes.
The new quality orings fit the barrel just fine, but the ones for the regulator still did not fit well.
We will be returning to this supplier with the rifle parts disassembled for them to measure the grooves in all the parts to determine what will/may work.
This will also help to determine how far out of spec the grooves are, and it MAY help to explain why the manufacturer put the teflon tape in the grooves too.
-
Gertrude, if you get a chance to go see Ryan at Aim that would be something I'd like to hear about. A face to face with him showing him the problems found could go a long way, although all he can do is report the problems to the chinese manufacturer. I'd like to see them get things sorted out, not good to hear they are using custom or out of spec o-rings. Begs the question what does someone do about o-rings when our rifles are out of warranty in a year. If standard metric o-rings won't fit we're dependent on the ones from the manufacturer through Aim only. That's not cool.
-
The Biggest problem I see is the clearances are far to loose. The regulator is way to loose in the bore of the air tube the threads on both ends of the tube are on the loose side . I am a machinist and I tell you this stuff way to loose even for 90d orings to do their job. the 90d are just a bandage for loose tolerances. My 2cents
-
I thought we had come to the conclusion that the combination that Wayne found of the 90s on the reg and the 70s at each end of tube were good matches. They did seal my tube, it was my poppet that was leaking. I guess at some point the remaining orings will have to have replacements found, definitely don't want to use their replacements. It is hard for me to see Dar. making it through this bad early period of operation. 3 out of 4 guns not working right out of the box?
-
I got a tracking number coming from Ontario Cal which has to be the parts for my DAR25. Supposed to be here tomorrow.
-
I thought we had come to the conclusion that the combination that Wayne found of the 90s on the reg and the 70s at each end of tube were good matches. They did seal my tube, it was my poppet that was leaking. I guess at some point the remaining orings will have to have replacements found, definitely don't want to use their replacements. It is hard for me to see Dar. making it through this bad early period of operation. 3 out of 4 guns not working right out of the box?
I agree ! It is going to be hard on sales even if they get this under control. What i measured the Tube is to large ID and the best fix would be a new tighter tolerance air tube to reduce the clearance between the regulator and tube... If they wouldnt have asked me to send my rifle back I was going to make a air tube.
-
Ron, just a few thoughts after following the various threads on this issue. I suppose it’s possible that the material is somehow deteriorating at a breakneck pace…it’s rather unlikely to be because of exposure to HPA but if they were exposed to some incompatible solvent / cleaner / lube, that could explain it. However based on my general experience, I’m more inclined to think they are failing via extrusion. A few of the clues were the comments of O-rings that looked spread out like gum or with missing chunks, and that some folks are having luck with harder 90 durometer O-rings (a harder material resists extrusion). Also, the fact they were packing some of the O-ring grooves with floss is another clue. Granted, it could be because they mistakenly milled the grooves too deep, but by pushing a greater portion of material to the outside, a larger cross section of material is put between the high pressure side and the low pressure side. That will buy some time before the material extrudes through the gap but it’s not a good long term solution.
If you can post a few closeup photos, we may be able to tell so I’ll keep an eye out.
Another thought…isn’t it the seals on the regulator body that are failing most commonly? Maybe you can get an accurate dimension on the reg OD and the ID where it mates. The difference should be no more than about 0.010” – 0.012” for a 90 durometer to resist extrusion failure. Generally it should be quite a bit tighter than that. Most designs with a 3000psi fill will have tolerances compatible with 70 durometer.
But here’s the bad news, if it is in fact extrusion failure, the only practical solution for most folks will be to try a properly sized 90 durometer O-ring. If that doesn’t hold, a precision fitted backing ring would work but where would you get that? Plus the groove would need to be widened to accommodate it. It becomes legit machinist work at that point.
-
Wouldn't the best repair be for AimSport to recall all 400 guns that are out and replace the regulators with properly manufactured regulators, and other associated parts, that use common sized O rings to enable owners to replace them easily should they fail when out of warranty? Is that too much to ask? After all, we all bought this gun in good faith, assuming merchantability.
-
I think the problem has gone away from the regulator after further inspection. Yes initially the o rings on the regulator were failing and probably still are. But Wayne showed with the duro 90s you can seal that. Some of us were still having leaks after the 90s so we kept believing it was our o rings on the regulators still wasn't sealing. But then we went further into our guns and found those orings had sealed fine but the poppet wasn't seating and it was causing air leaks from the port. I don't know that I heard from anyone who used the 90s that it didn't stop the tube leak.
-
David, Jason did a good job of explaining the issues with the regulator, and I still believe the regulator is part of the problem. The Dura90's are holding for now because they are a harder material. If the regulator fit in the air tube as it should, the original o-rings or the Dura70's should have worked fine.
I like Bill's idea, but instead of having my gun recalled (i.e. having to subject it to possible damage in transit back and forth to Aim Sports), I'd prefer they just replace the regulator with a properly fitting one with good quality o-rings. I truly believe a properly fitting regulator and an aligned poppet with the correct spring would probably remedy 99% of the issues being experienced by the folks who have reported problems.
Since not all have had problems, and some folks have not experienced any problems, a total recall may not be warranted at this point, but I do think parts replacements would be the best way to remedy the problem. Or, offer the owner the choice to send it back and have Aim Sports replace the parts if they aren't comfortable doing so. This gun is so simple to work on, I'd just prefer to do it myself.
-
Agreed they are simple to work on and I was really wanting to figure mine out when they decided to bring it back in. With that said, while I have learned a lot from this gun I am extremely disappointed that a brand new gun didn't work out the box and had me spending hours assembling and disassembling trying to get it work like it should have day 1. I know it's a cheap rifle and that is no excuse, so is my Hatsan Flash and yet all it does is work and does what it's suppose to do, haven't had to put a wrench on it.
-
Ron, just a few thoughts after following the various threads on this issue. I suppose it’s possible that the material is somehow deteriorating at a breakneck pace…it’s rather unlikely to be because of exposure to HPA but if they were exposed to some incompatible solvent / cleaner / lube, that could explain it. However based on my general experience, I’m more inclined to think they are failing via extrusion. A few of the clues were the comments of O-rings that looked spread out like gum or with missing chunks, and that some folks are having luck with harder 90 durometer O-rings (a harder material resists extrusion). Also, the fact they were packing some of the O-ring grooves with floss is another clue. Granted, it could be because they mistakenly milled the grooves too deep, but by pushing a greater portion of material to the outside, a larger cross section of material is put between the high pressure side and the low pressure side. That will buy some time before the material extrudes through the gap but it’s not a good long term solution.
If you can post a few closeup photos, we may be able to tell so I’ll keep an eye out.
Another thought…isn’t it the seals on the regulator body that are failing most commonly? Maybe you can get an accurate dimension on the reg OD and the ID where it mates. The difference should be no more than about 0.010” – 0.012” for a 90 durometer to resist extrusion failure. Generally it should be quite a bit tighter than that. Most designs with a 3000psi fill will have tolerances compatible with 70 durometer.
But here’s the bad news, if it is in fact extrusion failure, the only practical solution for most folks will be to try a properly sized 90 durometer O-ring. If that doesn’t hold, a precision fitted backing ring would work but where would you get that? Plus the groove would need to be widened to accommodate it. It becomes legit machinist work at that point.
Jason,
Thank you for the excellent explanation. I think we are on the right track here regarding the regulator orings and the ID/OD fit. Unfortunately, I do not have one of the leaking guns in front of me today. They are 40 miles away at my buddies house. I will be shooting with him this weekend and can bring 1 or 2 of them home with me. I will be taking them apart and doing some measurements.
I also have reason to believe the poppet may not be square to the valve, thus causing a valve leak.
I just spent an hour on the phone with my buddy, talking him through the lapping process of the poppet to the valve body.
It appears we are making progress on that issue also.
As I determine more, I will report back. Its going to take me a few days... Simply due to logistics and prior obligations... But I'm working on it.
Thanks for your excellent input.
I may give you a call to discuss some of my findings if that is ok with you.
-
I think the o ring I.D. for the regulator fits the regulator great, as far as how the -117 size fits the tube is too loose, when assembling with the 70 duro BunaN's I kinda figured they wouldn't work but they did work for a few days til they dumped the air, I heard it when it happened. The o rings weren't extruded probably on account of BunaN being top notch o rings, the air got past them finally and opened them up with no damage to them at all. That's when I decided to order the 90 duro because I was sure they'd fit much tighter. Both guns still have the 90duro's that I put in them to begin with, I think they'll last for a long time myself.
The 25 never really had a chance to even break in at all so I had a good look see of the internals early on and since the last time I had it apart the poppet is wearing evenly, hopefully I have no problems in that department, when I had my 177 apart I just had to check out out easily that hammer slides in the delrin sleeve, it amazed me how it slid barely tilting the gun, now that is smooooooth.
The 177 is 50 bucks cheaper at a super bargain price, I think my total cost on that with a coupon I got in my email, it was like $252.95 to my door. I think this gun could be tuned easily to shoot Nielson slugs too, these little 177's have some serious power capabilities the way they are with only tweeking. I also noticed there's some room in the TP on the 177 for opening up, it's now .133 and you could go to .150 I think if you wanted to. The barrels on these things are massive like a bull barrel.
All in all after going through the rigamaroll of tinkering and waiting on o rings I'm still happy with both of them, I've had them both out in the woods hunting with great success, last time I was out with the 25 was the first time I shot at a target at any distance and I was pleased with the way it was shooting. I had a good run this morning casting 34.5 grain pellets after some tweeking on the mold pins, the skirts turned out about as perfect as I've seen yet and I'm going to try them out in the morning at the state land and maybe do a little hunting after.
-
Ron, sure thing. I’ll be running around so if I miss your call, I’ll ring you back.
-
Good news, got my stuff from Aim and actually got to shoot my rifle tonight. So far it's holding air ok and the new barrel seems to be better as it's not being inconsistent like the first one was spitting pellets on one mag and then stacking them on another. Have it topped with air for the night and will see what it's doing in the morning.
I want to correct something that was said in an earlier post about the regulator, I never was able to get the regulator to seal for more than a mag or two before it would let go and leak all the air out the vent hole just past the front regulator seal. I had no other leaks and my poppet was fine. I tried buna 70's 90's urethane and square o-rings trying to make this thing seal at the regulator and in every case, it continued to fail. They tested the new one they just sent me before sending it and so far it's holding. If I recall there was at least one other member who couldn't get his to seal at the regulator also with replacement o-rings and I think they recalled it as well. I need to get some other pellets to try in this new barrel but so far with no break in the JSB 18.13's are doing best. Want to get some JSB 15.89's to try along with some H&N field target trophy.
-
That's great news Tom! Maybe it will hold this time. I do have some FFT you can try. Maybe we can get together next week.
-
Might be time I get my hands on one of these.
-
I say go for it, could use another educated opinion and additional insight.
-
Might be time I get my hands on one of these.
Yes you should because we'll be needing some performance parts for them soon! LOL!
-
;D + 1
-
This seems to be a great "custom shop" style gun, seen no issues with barrels and great potential as hard hitting hunters.
??? Just imagine if the new regulated Marauder FT was in this price range, more people could afford them to find if there are really any issues with them ???
-
22 or 25?
-
22 or 25?
All 3, don’t neglect the .177!
-
Well, I'm happy to report that it has been 48 hours sine I fully aired my DAR177 and it's still sitting right where I left it with the gauge dead on the 200 Bar mark! Success! :D
-
I looked at the one they just sent me about 20 minutes ago, had filled it to 3000 before putting it away for the night, has lost about half that overnight. It's not leaking from the vent hole on the tube though, haven't looked to see where it's coming from but would suspect it's past the poppet. Not to concerned yet as a little more shooing and air fills may help it to fully seat in and stop the leaking. You can bet I'll be watching it closely though.
-
I looked at the one they just sent me about 20 minutes ago, had filled it to 3000 before putting it away for the night, has lost about half that overnight. It's not leaking from the vent hole on the tube though, haven't looked to see where it's coming from but would suspect it's past the poppet. Not to concerned yet as a little more shooing and air fills may help it to fully seat in and stop the leaking. You can bet I'll be watching it closely though.
Tom, have you checked to make sure the brass sleeve and retaining disc on the valve are tight? Both ere loose on mine and I thing that contributed to the leak, although I think the misaligned poppet was also a contributing factor.
-
The poppet is only seeing the reg pressure. You might set it out in the heat to help it seat.
-
Had the rifle sitting in a rest on my kitchen table a little while ago, my wife went into the kitchen to start lunch and said she heard air coming from my rifle, I picked it up and found that the o-ring on the regulator had let go and air was coming out the vent hole on the new one. One day and already leaking. I thought they (Aim) was to have gone through this one before sending it to make sure this didn't happen again. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I can't believe I have to contact Ryan again, gave them the benefit of the doubt again with assurances that they would be sure this one would work ok. Now it really is time to get my money back and have them send a label to send all this stuff back. Good luck to all you guys that got rifles that work, I hope they keep working for you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me three times and I'll never believe anything you say ever again. :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
Had the rifle sitting in a rest on my kitchen table a little while ago, my wife went into the kitchen to start lunch and said she heard air coming from my rifle, I picked it up and found that the o-ring on the regulator had let go and air was coming out the vent hole on the new one. One day and already leaking. I thought they (Aim) was to have gone through this one before sending it to make sure this didn't happen again. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I can't believe I have to contact Ryan again, gave them the benefit of the doubt again with assurances that they would be sure this one would work ok. Now it really is time to get my money back and have them send a label to send all this stuff back. Good luck to all you guys that got rifles that work, I hope they keep working for you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me three times and I'll never believe anything you say ever again. :'( :'( :'( :'(
Sorry to hear that Tom. But they can only expect a customer to be patient for only so long for them to get you what you paid for "A working gun".... Curious to see now what action they will take.
-
Dang Tom! Brings to mind the old song from HeeHaw, If it weren’t for bad luck, you have no luck at all! I hope they take care of you, no reason for me hat much bad luck with one air rifle!
-
I thought I had fixed my leaking poppet valve. I had aired it up to 3000psi and shot it several days until off the reg about 120 bar. Then aired it up and each night it had held air . Yesterday I shot it down but did not air it up. When I looked this morning it had leaked down to 0. Aired it up to 3000 and it seems to be holding. Must be a fine line on psi of it holding and not holding air. I know the higher the psi the more pressure is put valve and helps it seat, but only regulated pressure is getting to the poppet. So my question is, could you remove the regulator, air up the gun and shoot it to help seat the valve? Think it might help?
Another thought; is it possible that air is leaking around the outside of the seat, between the seat and the valve body? I didn't remove the seat from the poppet valve assembly, not sure how to even do that or how it is held in place.
-
Here's a five shot group I did with my DAR 25 @40 yards this morning. I also got a chipper and a red as well, darned gun is a winner for me so far, I got the barrel band and screw replacements in the mail for it too.
I'm really liking this last batch of pellets I cast yesterday, I'll be casting a bunch more just the way the pins are set on it now.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1816/44118276991_81eabd34c5_b.jpg)
-
Here's a five shot group I did with my DAR 25 @40 yards this morning. I also got a chipper and a red as well, darned gun is a winner for me so far, I got the barrel band and screw replacements in the mail for it too.
I'm really liking this last batch of pellets I cast yesterday, I'll be casting a bunch more just the way the pins are set on it now.
Wayne, what steps did you use to properly align the pins.
-
Well you gave the DAR product a good try Tom. Hopefully it won't quite be as dramatic to return it. I had a bad gun day today too as I blew out all of my baffles, air stripper, end cap and some TP seals. 55 FPE plus don't play around when something goes wrong.
-
Here's a five shot group I did with my DAR 25 @40 yards this morning. I also got a chipper and a red as well, darned gun is a winner for me so far, I got the barrel band and screw replacements in the mail for it too.
I'm really liking this last batch of pellets I cast yesterday, I'll be casting a bunch more just the way the pins are set on it now.
Wayne, what steps did you use to properly align the pins.
I did it basically like Bob Sterne says to adjust them.
-
Here's a five shot group I did with my DAR 25 @40 yards this morning. I also got a chipper and a red as well, darned gun is a winner for me so far, I got the barrel band and screw replacements in the mail for it too.
I'm really liking this last batch of pellets I cast yesterday, I'll be casting a bunch more just the way the pins are set on it now.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1816/44118276991_81eabd34c5_b.jpg)
that is one fine Group Wayne!
I think much of the problem I have with accuracy with them is the faster twist in my bbl. 14 in 1 rather than the typical 1 in 16 most pellet guns have. Does make shooting bullets more accurate though. As the 1 in 14 is what TJ's uses for their slug bbls in .25 and .257.
Great shooting Wayne!!! 8)
-
Thanks Michael !!! I cast a bunch more this morning with great success, the dang things look almost perfect. I did miss the airgun show only because I looked at my wallet and decided that the 22 mold was more important to me than more airguns. Can't wait til Al posts them in the store. Eventually I'll be getting the resizing stuff for the 25-41-FN boat tails because they're fitting way too tight in both my Mrod and the DAR.
Weather permitting tomorrow morning I'll be out with the DAR177, I really like that gun cause I don't have to bring the tank along if I want to shoot it a lot. Them JSB Monsters are what I'll bring too if I do go.
-
Ok guys here's an update on the return for credit. I contacted Ryan and he is going to take my appeal to the top at Sportsmans Guide himself to let them know whats going on. I had to send him the date of purchase and the order Number and he will take it from there. I suspect they will send me another UPS shipping label to send the stock and both actions back to them for inspection, am waiting to hear back from Ryan on that. I'll let you all follow the process as it unfolds. Tom
-
Thanks for the update tracker, It will be interesting what Sportsman's Guide take will be on this, the have been content to keep selling them, collecting the money and keep pointing the finger to Aim Sports if you have a problem.
-
I'm beginning to wonder about SG, I have submitted 2 different reviews on the DAR177, both pointing out the issues I encountered and also pointed out the virtues of the rifle. Neither have been published on their website. I think one of the reviews on the DAR22 is worse than anything I wrote, but that one shows and mine doesn't...
-
I sent them a review of my DAR25 and they returned a reply to me by email to send it in for a refund, I replied why would I want to start over again.
-
Got the return UPS labels today in my email, everything is boxed up ready to ship tomorrow, will be waiting to hear on my refund. Have been thinking about what I'll do when money is returned. Option 1 is waiting for the Fortitude to be released, option 2 is add $200 and buy the Diana Outlaw, option 3 is get the aluminum air tube and nylon hammer from JSAR and put a Huma in my Marauder, I'm leaning toward that option.
-
Good to read Tom! You are halfway there. Don't forget about the MMHF barrel.
-
The barrel would be nice Keith but I'm not unhappy with how my Marauder shoots, trying to stay close within my budget and lighten up the weight add some extra shots and lower extreme spread. ::)
-
I'm not sure if this is rubbing salt in the wound or not, but... SG has all 3 caliber DAR Dynamic air rifles on sale for $224.99! With code SH2093 it dropped the price to $194.73. I know it's a &^^& shoot, but at that price I took my chances on a .25. When it arrives, before I even fill it with air, I'll probably replace the o-rings with Dura90's, inspect and tighten everything on the valve and shim the cocking lever. That's everything I have done to my .177 and it's holding air fine and shooting great!
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147313.msg1499568#msg1499568 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147313.msg1499568#msg1499568)
-
Did you read the FAQ under the 22 cal, made by? :o
I think there is a mix up in that info.......... LOL
One extreme to the other. ;)
Tia,
Don
-
Did you read the FAQ under the 22 cal, made by? :o
I think there is a mix up in that info.......... LOL
One extreme to the other. ;)
Tia,
Don
Yea, lots of mis-information about these on the SG website. They probably should have opened a box before answering the question!!! I looked at the website for Dynamic Arms Research in Germany, they do make AR's, but they make Assault Rifles, not Air Rifles! Yea, I know, technicalities...
-
I sure wish that I had waited til now to buy one or two like I did ???
-
I sure wish that I had waited til now to buy one or two like I did ???
Great time to complete your set and get on in .22! LOL!
-
Paul thanks for the heads up on the sale. Just ordered a .25. Early present; Merry Christmas to me!
-
Paul thanks for the heads up on the sale. Just ordered a .25. Early present; Merry Christmas to me!
You are welcome! Also, for anyone who may have ordered one in the past 10 days, SG does have a best price guarantee, if it's been 10 days or less contact them and have them adjust the purchase price!
-
I sure hope you all have better luck with your rifles than I did, I really wanted mine to work but how long do you beat a dead horse. I may revisit this rifle in the future after all the bugs have been worked out. Dropped off my return carton at UPS this morning, will be waiting to hear from Ryan on how the refund process is going. In the meantime, I'll have to be happy with my Disco and Marauder. So many airguns, so little time...... (and money)!!!
-
Tom, you had a run of bad luck with you DAR, hopefully the new one I have coming will work as well as my .177 is working after new o-rings, poppet and valve spring. I fully expect I will have to replace the o-rings, but hopefully the poppet is straight and it has the correct valve spring. I have plenty of #117 Dura90 o-Rings on hand, so those will not be a problem. For all of us who did all this troubleshooting and repairs on our own guns, it would be nice if Aim Sports sent us a free magazine to compensate us for all the labor we saved them! LOL!
According to Ryan, they are already working on the Gen2 model, which is why I suspect SG is selling off their current stock at the sale price. Hopefully, it won’t be long before those are available.
-
Tom, you had a run of bad luck with you DAR, hopefully the new one I have coming will work as well as my .177 is working after new o-rings, poppet and valve spring. I fully expect I will have to replace the o-rings, but hopefully the poppet is straight and it has the correct valve spring. I have plenty of #117 Dura90 o-Rings on hand, so those will not be a problem. For all of us who did all this troubleshooting and repairs on our own guns, it would be nice if Aim Sports sent us a free magazine to compensate us for all the labor we saved them! LOL!
According to Ryan, they are already working on the Gen2 model, which is why I suspect SG is selling off their current stock at the sale price. Hopefully, it won’t be long before those are available.
Paul that's the first I've heard about Ryan saying anything about a Gen2 for these! That's fantastic news for sure, as much as I'd love to get a deal on the .22 right now I'm holding back because I've been going a little far on my spending lately. I have been broke before and I never want to be that way again. I'll be buying the NOE mold when it comes out in .22 pellet first before anything else and that might be a while yet.
-
Tom, you had a run of bad luck with you DAR, hopefully the new one I have coming will work as well as my .177 is working after new o-rings, poppet and valve spring. I fully expect I will have to replace the o-rings, but hopefully the poppet is straight and it has the correct valve spring. I have plenty of #117 Dura90 o-Rings on hand, so those will not be a problem. For all of us who did all this troubleshooting and repairs on our own guns, it would be nice if Aim Sports sent us a free magazine to compensate us for all the labor we saved them! LOL!
According to Ryan, they are already working on the Gen2 model, which is why I suspect SG is selling off their current stock at the sale price. Hopefully, it won’t be long before those are available.
Paul that's the first I've heard about Ryan saying anything about a Gen2 for these! That's fantastic news for sure, as much as I'd love to get a deal on the .22 right now I'm holding back because I've been going a little far on my spending lately. I have been broke before and I never want to be that way again. I'll be buying the NOE mold when it comes out in .22 pellet first before anything else and that might be a while yet.
It was the end of July, he said they'd be ready in about 6 months. So probably around the 1st of the year 2019.
-
That's neat to know Paul !!! Maybe by that time I might be in more of a position to order one in 22 caliber because I do plan on getting the .22 pellet mould when NOE has them in the store.
-
Wayne, I'm thinking the same thing, it would be kinda neat to have a complete set of these. I have plenty of .22's also, but at the current price I couldn't resist getting one in .25. I wanted the .25, but I was going to wait for the next generation. Oh well, at least I know what I'm getting into with this one. When the next generation is released I may get one in .22 to complete the set!
-
Paul I had fun shooting my 25 today I got two red squirrels with it.
-
Paul I had fun shooting my 25 today I got two red squirrels with it.
Awesome! Mine will be here next Tuesday!
-
Is there an exploded view and O-Ring list for the DAR .25?
-
I haven't seen one yet Bob but Ron was in the process of getting that info from AimSports the last that I heard. I haven't seen Ron posting anything about these guns recently but I know he's got 4 others now that he's in the process of getting working good I think. The way that I came up with the size of the 90duro's was measuring the regulator o rings and coming up with the -117 on "The O-Ring Store" website, I then proceeded to order the 90duro in that size.
-
Wayne, Thanks. I think that I may take advantage of the Special price on the DAR .25...sounds good.
-
Wayne, Thanks. I think that I may take advantage of the Special price on the DAR .25...sounds good.
Go for it Bob! Despite the initial flaws, they are really great air rifles. Very accurate, tons of power and extremely easy to work on!
-
Is there an exploded view and O-Ring list for the DAR .25?
We are still waiting on an exploded view from the manufacturer.
As for the Orings, we took the bag of spares that comes with the gun, to a local supplier and had them duplicate the kit in both Duro 70 & Duro 90.
(Don't pay attention to the quantity, we made up 5 kits)
-
Ron, thanks for the O-Ring listing, much appreciated.
-
Much appreciated for the o ring sizes there Ron. It might be a while before I need any o rings, but do you have any idea which ones are for the breech, I might get some in 90duro for that, I recently replaced mine because when I had the regulator turned up too high on the .25 I blew one right out of it so I matched up on the closest I could get and it seems to be working just fine.
-
Called Ryan at Aim to see what was going on with some replacement parts to get my 25 working. Operator told me he was unavailable but took a massage. Later got an e-mail from sales manager saying Ryan was no longer with Aim and wants me to return rifle to Aim so they can fix it. Now waiting for return info. Love this gun. Hope they get back to me soon, fix it and ship it back fast. Going to miss her.
-
Sad to hear Ryan is no longer with Aim sports, he was always very responsive to me. I wonder why he left and who is going to take his place? I bought a .25 just because of his responsiveness and willingness to send parts instead of making me return the air rifle. I hope that’s not the reason he’s no longer there!!! :o
-
I'm wondering where they did get their parts to send to the few that got them, did they rob them from returned guns ??? There's a lot of things I'm wondering about these guns because I sure do like mine too James.
-
Wow Ryan is gone ! I hope they get mine back soon Its been gone 10days and no word ether way from aim
-
Ryan is gone???
That's not good at all!
Ryan understood us far better than anyone else will ever be able to do.
Ryan was our friend.
I've never met him, but we have talked, and he sounded like a young man to me - perhaps in his 20's?
He tried very hard to satisfy everyone, as best his position allowed him to do.
He listened and gave us personal service that is hard to find these days.
That might have been his downfall?
Maybe the company preferred to have a hardliner instead.
I think quite possibly he was let go?
I hope his replacement will be as caring and helpful?
-
It's going to be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of weeks. Ryan did a great job at taking care of us, I sure hope that doesn't change now that he's moved on.
At one point he had told me he would be posting on GTA when the Magazines were available, so I thought he may have become a member here. It would be great if he stopped by and let us know what happened...
-
Well I'm glad that I didn't order the .22 because without Ryans support a person wouldn't be able to get parts for warranty by the sounds of it. I did send pictures to Ryan to show him the defective parts before he sent me the replacements. It is unusual for a company or mfg to send parts under warranty however I've seen it happen through SPA directly from China before from a fellow member that got a faulty compressor from Mrodair. Another thing that I'm not comfortable with is the fact they won't disclose the name of the manufacturer either. It would be fantastic if we could order parts direct from China for these guns. They wouldn't be able to ship the barrels because of their laws though. SPA won't ship stocks either.
I think that compressor the member repaired is still using his compressor. It is the one that's portable like the Nomad.
-
It's sad to hear Ryan is gone. Although some here complained about him at times he did seem to follow through for us. The poor guy must have been in total overload though with the number of problems and requests, I just hope we were not instrumental in his leaving. I won't even speculate about how he left without any facts to back it up. I'm very grateful that he came through for me several times including my return and refund from SG. I ordered the LW air tube and super hammer from JSAR and a Huma from Trenier Friday after receiving my refund, now the new wait begins. I will continue to follow this thread as I still feel connected to this whole process, just wish I'd gotten one that continued to work.
-
I called AimSport today and spoke with them about Ryan's leaving the company and to find out who will be his replacement - for future dealings about warranty repairs for the DAR guns.
I was told that the company is seeking a replacement for Ryan, who left the company for a more lucrative position with another company. Evidently, he left on good terms - strictly a career move. I was also told that Ryan left good notes on his dealings with myself and others, and that hopefully, those notes will help his replacement to continue assisting us in like fashion. Time will tell?
-
That's great news Bill !!! . . . . I can't remember which caliber that you bought, have you been shooting it much ??? I haven't been out with my .25 in a while not but I did cast up a boatload of ammo for it this morning, I sorted them also and have the choice pellets from the run ready to start shooting some more. I did get out in the heat with my 177 yesterday for a successful hunting in the dense fog for a couple nice red squirrels. That darned gun is sweet for the stealth and accuracy I must say ;D
-
I bought all three calibers!
Haven't shot any of them yet.
I'm w-a-a-a-y behind in shooting my guns.
I have far too many air guns that I haven't shot yet.
-
I called AimSport today and spoke with them about Ryan's leaving the company and to find out who will be his replacement - for future dealings about warranty repairs for the DAR guns.
I was told that the company is seeking a replacement for Ryan, who left the company for a more lucrative position with another company. Evidently, he left on good terms - strictly a career move. I was also told that Ryan left good notes on his dealings with myself and others, and that hopefully, those notes will help his replacement to continue assisting us in like fashion. Time will tell?
I was told the same thing.
-
Awesome news from Aim Sports and a hearty congratulation to Ryan, wherever he may be!
-
A .25 is on the truck for delivery today and I have some O-rings at the ready so I’ll report back on how it goes.
-
A .25 is on the truck for delivery today and I have some O-rings at the ready so I’ll report back on how it goes.
Yep, me too! I will be replacing o-rings and tightening valve parts before I even attempt to air it up this time! LOL!
-
Any one that sent their rifle back heard any thing from Aimsports? I cant seem to get a hold of anyone there!
-
Any one that sent their rifle back heard any thing from Aimsports? I cant seem to get a hold of anyone there!
This is why I hated to see Ryan leave! I would much rather they send me the parts and let me do the work. This rifle is so easy to work on and it’s much more satisfying knowing I fixed it with their warranty parts!!! Plus, I’m not without the rifle which is a blast to shoot.
-
I've always had a problem of letting go of a gun once I had it, I also prefer working on my own stuff. Pretty much anything I own I do the same with. I'm still watching a nice plasma tv that I dug out of a junk pile back around 2010 which I also fixed.
-
I hear you guys ! He was first going to send me Orings and an air tube and then changed his mind and wanted the rifle back.
-
A .25 is on the truck for delivery today and I have some O-rings at the ready so I’ll report back on how it goes.
Uh oh you're going for the gusto too Jason . . . enjoy I'm sure you will.
-
As a customer I don't see this as good news. A good company would have given you a current contact to continue doing warranty work with while Ryan's replacement was being found.
Instead all we got was "we are looking for his replacement". What does that even mean? Are we to wait till the new man is found, then get familiar with the case overload that Ryan escaped from, before we can expect to get any more customer service?
-
Well left message on their website and got a reply from Ed Morales edn@aimsportsinc.com. Ryan had me send my gun in, it arrived Friday and I had heard nothing from them, so asked about status and received email saying that turn around on warranty repair was 5-10 business days.
-
Got a pick up label e-mailed to me today for my 25 so I will ship it out tomorrow. Think the turn around will probably be about there weeks from Florida. Hope it goes fast. Still shooting my 22 (sons) but already a week with out the 25. Ordered a refurb synrod form field supply. Should be here by Friday. Have a huma reg for it that they sent by mistake and told me to keep it. That’s the other reasonto by the synrod . Now will be missing with it till I get the dar 25 back. Need a coyote and coon gun. Hope I can make the synrod shot 50 FPS for at least 8 shoots.