GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Racer X on September 12, 2016, 12:15:38 PM
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I have decided to build a Crosman 2300 S and build it up using almost no Crosman parts. Rather than go to the custom shop. Then spend more money modifying things. I decided to build up a pistol from scratch. Yes this will cost a lot. But in the end I will have a great pistol that will be built to my liking and not have any parts left over.
I will use this pistol for ten meter off hand target shooting . I want to try silhouette and my ultimate goal is Field Target hands only pistol class competition. I love field target and have enough room in my yard for a 35 meter range. So I can practice every day when the weather permits.
The basics...
I want black metal and stainless steel look. Only the trigger will be brass.
I want to use as much aluminum as I can to reduce weight.
I am going with a lothar Walther 10.1 barrel in .177 caliber.
A field target suitable scope. I need advice on that.
I will use 12 gr powerlets. I am toying with bulk fill and might go that route. But I need to do more research
I am going to purchase each piece one at a time. The total budget is 700.00. Nothing but the barrel cost more than 50.00. So every week or two I can order things and collect all the parts. Each piece can be fitted and I will document them here as I go.
This is a winter project and don't expect to fire a shot this year. Any advice or comments are more than welcome.
The first part is the trigger. Brass with roller bearing . And I polished the blade.
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I have considered the same thing. I'll be watching this thread
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Good lock on your venture. That's pretty much what I've built as my avatar picture. Mine is a mic of aftermarket parts and standard crosman parts. Hard to get away without using some factory parts. Here is a better picture.
(https://s20.postimg.org/wochk3665/CameraZOOM_20140515185410211.jpg) (https://postimage.org)upload img (https://postimage.org/)
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That is a beautiful pistol
I don't have anything agenced the factory parts. But there are better options out there so I am going with a lot of the top end choices. I really like that power adjuster. I have seen it before. Did you make that?
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That's from cothran machine shop. The tube, breech, barrel bands and power adjuster are from there. The trigger group is a 1701/p-rod. The barrel is the lothar barrel from a 2300kt. Valve is a disco/ pro-top setup. More money than what it's worth but it is fun and shoots pretty well.
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Ooooo they have lots of shiney stuff!
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i think you're goin the right way by not starting with a pre-made gun. but don't discount crosman parts. i made this pistol with the exact idea of my son using it for 10m, silhouette, and perhaps pistol field target. i used the p-rod trigger group with stainless 2-stage trigger blade from don cothran (d.c.) . no trigger mod will match the quality of the p-rod trigger, for 10m a good trigger is a must. i also had him make me a batch of square style breeches in aluminum and some in brass. i just prefer the look of the square breeches. i had the breeches anodized locally (ohio at the time) and his initials engraved. he is right handed, but i got the bolt on the left for the pistol so he doesn't have to change his grip for the cocking/loading sequence.
for 10m the normal 2240 valve is fine and can be tuned to 75 consistant shots easily. changing to a boss 12 gram valve only takes a couple minutes. i use the challenger hammer/striker/acetal pin set-up with the p-rod end cap. the end cap allows for hammer pre-load and throw adjustments to be made with no disassembly. the end cap needs drilled and tapped between the 2 holes where it would normally attach to the p-rod tube. set up as a 10m i use a 2240 spring with a couple coils cut off. for field target/silhouette i use a stiffer spring and the boss 12g valve.
it has the l.w. barrel . s.s. safety , stainless tube and gas cap and bolt by d.c. wood by me.
if i forgot anything let me know. hope it gives you some ideas.
peace
kj
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/bbb151/044_zpso8vygmtz.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/bbb151/media/044_zpso8vygmtz.jpg.html)
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/bbb151/039_zpsqfqsdjon.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/bbb151/media/039_zpsqfqsdjon.jpg.html)
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/bbb151/033_zpsl0kbqrpr.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/bbb151/media/033_zpsl0kbqrpr.jpg.html)
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/bbb151/046_zpsd36mnvyv.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/bbb151/media/046_zpsd36mnvyv.jpg.html)
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Thank you very much for this information. It is very valuable and maybe a little expensive. ???
I just bought a trigger. Grip frame and side plate. Now I want to order the Prod trigger. It comes with all those parts. So I guess I will have to build two guns. I can order the p rod trigger and buy a 2240. Then use what I have to biuild a 2240 that is mildly upgraded and start shooting. And use the p rod trigger as the base for my 2300S . Two guns are better than one. ;D
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Now this is of interest to me, I have a 2300s, shoots as well very well with rest . The first big improvement for me would be the trigger, for off hand. Can I buy and install a trigger from someone to smooth out the pull? Now the fact, I am not a tuner by a long sight needs to be simple install. The second would be front sight and this might be due to my glasses in other words a clearer sight picture. Was thinking a little grind to a point, may be a complete new front sight? 30 feet I use a 2 in circle with a dot a little smaller then a pencil eraser. The 2300s is straight from crosman nothing done YET. The right pellet is a big deal, I bought a sample pack from P.A. and a few cans I had. Thank you for any information.
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After a little research I am going to stick with a single stage trigger. I am building a 2300 and there is a footnote about going an extra step to apply the P rod trigger. It seems simple enough to do. But I am not looking for a one pound trigger. My hands are a little harsh from 40 years as a mechanic. So I want just under two pounds. My rifle has a little over one pound and a two stage trigger. I really like that in a rifle. But I might be wrong. But I think a single stage trigger will work for me.
I have watched a number of videos and I want to try to get a super smooth single stage trigger just under two pounds with minimal travel. And if that does not work then I will go for the P rod trigger.
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SUBSCRIBED!
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(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/bbb151/044_zpso8vygmtz.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/bbb151/media/044_zpso8vygmtz.jpg.html)
Those pictures play tricks on the mind! It took a while to be able to tell where one gun begins and where the other stops. With the two blue guns next to each other like that they sort of look like some kind of futuristic modular two-barreled lazer cannon...
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Part number two is in. It's an aluminum trigger frame cover from Magnum Airpower. It looks super. And will be better than the factory plastic piece. I am going to paint the outside black to match the trigger frame. Then I need to fit the two pieces together so it is perfectly flush.
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smooth is what I am looking for, had a tune by Flying D and that was nice. Will wait to see how yours turns out.
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I just discovers the super sear from Adcher Airguns. I am getting mixed reviews. I might order one later and see how it workes. Anyone have any experience with it?
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Part number two is in. It's an aluminum trigger frame cover from Magnum Airpower. It looks super.
Thanks for posting that. The factory plastic piece is what's been keeping me from striping smoothing, and polishing my frame.
While I could have used some silver paint on the black plastic ...it wouldn't look "right".
I might just pick up one myself ;)
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To polish the plate like chrome will be tricky. It's somewhat soft. Sand it with a 600 grit and be very careful around the bumps. I sanded my plate for paint and then thought about buffing it. I could see streaks in the metal. Going front to back. I did not put them there with the sanding. I would try buffing first then block sand wth a 600 -1200 grit. Then buff polish and clear coat.
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The frame arrived today so I can get to work on the trigger group. It has all the mold lines removed but is not perfect. And it is powder coated but it will have to be redone.
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The first step is to fit the side plate.
It is metal so I have to first remove any powder coating from the frame that makes contact with the side plate. Then I bolted the side plate down and file then sand the two pieces so they make a near perfect fit.
I had to make the first big decision today. I want black over all. And a lot of the parts are stainless steel or blue or flat black or raw aluminum. I decided that I will build the entire pistol. And make all the finish work complete. THEN send all the parts out and have them powder coated at the same time.
I can't send out the barrel. So I will plan to powder coat the parts a dull black. The is will hopefully make everything look like gun metal. But not show fingerprints.
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I think what you're doing is cool but personally I would have started with the 1701P trigger group instead of the 13xx.
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Me too. But I did not know about that. My research is a little behind the curve. Live and learn I guess.
But working with what I have I made some progress on the trigger. I'm still waiting for the adjustable shear spring. That will be in tomorrow.
Today I got the sear from Alchemy airworks. It is stainless steel and beautifully polished on all the proper sides. And it is the proper thickness. I had to fit a pin for it. I used a 1/8x1/2 pin and machined it down to .465. I also drilled both the frame and side plate so it had a nice fit. Then polished the pin so it has zero play, and no shims. It just spins nicely and will get better with lubrication and use.
I also drilled the frame and added a very light spring under the trigger. This is an idea from "Gun Slicker" on U tube. It keeps the trigger in constant contact with the sear. It is sitting on a 6-32 stud that is locked in with lock tight. And adjustment will be made by cutting coils or adding washers to the spring.
Now I have to sand blast all the parts and then polish them for powder coat. Then move on to the main tube and those parts.
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I think what you're doing is cool but personally I would have started with the 1701P trigger group instead of the 13xx.
I actually never even knew the 1701p existed until I read about the trigger stuff. I think I might just get that whole gun and go full Dark side next year.
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I think what you're doing is cool but personally I would have started with the 1701P trigger group instead of the 13xx.
I actually never even knew the 1701p existed until I read about the trigger stuff. I think I might just get that whole gun and go full Dark side next year.
Not a bad idea at all!
I do like it on my 1377 but the worked over, softer sprung 13xx trigger is what I prefer on my 2289g carbine.
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I just want a smooth consistent trigger. Single stage and a little over 1lb of pull weight. No creep no grit just pull it a little and pop.
The last piece of that puzzle arrived today. The adjustable pull weight spring. From what I read. After everything is done. I am to adjust it all the way down. Then trim the coils a little at a time until the gun will not fire when the trigger is pulled. Then turn the adjustment up until it fires. Then go about another 1/4 turn.
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The spring that comes with the adjustment screw has a three pound pull weight without the valve atached. I went through my box of springs. This one has a nice one and a half pound pull. I also have a lighter one. But need to get things finished before that can be tested.
Next step is to order the main tube and all its parts
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Just back from sand blasting the frame and side plate. I sanded all the old powder coat and paint off and finished all the machine work. Drilling ,sanding ,deburing and just wanted to get a uniform finish. Man I like the feel of it now.
It seems different. The parts seem smooth and lighter for some reason. I am not a big fan of silver guns. But j do like sand blasted aluminum. I have a stainless steel Smith and Wesson 2206 and this reminds me of that. I might have to think about my color choice again. Maybe black grips on a silver frame would be good.
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That's looking pretty good. It'd be interesting to see it mocked up with the black grips. If you WERE to go that route, what would you do with the air tube and barrel and such?
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Not sure if you know this but you can get pretty much a whole pistol form Cothran machine made in stainless. His tubes in raw form are beautiful not to mention his RVA's.
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That's looking pretty good. It'd be interesting to see it mocked up with the black grips. If you WERE to go that route, what would you do with the air tube and barrel and such?
The problem is the barrel is black. Can't do anything with that. But I am getting the aluminum breach and barrel band. I can sand blast the rest and it will all match. And get silver scope rings. The barrel ,grips and scope will all be black. That might be very attractive. As for the main tube and power adjuster and end cap in the stainless and sand blast it to a dull matt finish.
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That's looking pretty good. It'd be interesting to see it mocked up with the black grips. If you WERE to go that route, what would you do with the air tube and barrel and such?
The problem is the barrel is black. Can't do anything with that. But I am getting the aluminum breach and barrel band. I can sand blast the rest and it will all match. And get silver scope rings. The barrel ,grips and scope will all be black. That might be very attractive. As for the main tube and power adjuster and end cap in the stainless and sand blast it to a dull matt finish.
Just for grins I did a search on Crosman barrels on fleabay. There's a couple of vendors offering them with a mirror polish... One would have to keep them well oiled, I suppose, but that might go with your project. On the other hand, a two tone look has a lot going for it as well.
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I could polish the barrel. I don't think it's a great idea to powder coat a barrel. But I want to Lothar Walther barrel. I really don't want to do anything to it. I just will have a good time doing some research. I can't buy any parts for another week. The next thing I need is the main tube.
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I found a picture of a silver 2240. It is beautiful but I am not really that crazy about it. Still want to do a lot more research befor I make a final decision.
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I found a picture of a silver 2240. It is beautiful but I am not really that crazy about it. Still want to do a lot more research befor I make a final decision.
Hmm.....
Looks powder coated or possibly 2 part auto paint sprayed with polished barrel.
MIGHT be rattle can silver on the tube and trigger frame but for some reason I don't think so.
I would put a different brake and front sight on it too. Not really digging it.
The barrel steel is really easy to polish and not particularly hard. I think it would rust really easily but can't say from personal experience.
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I found a picture of a silver 2240. It is beautiful but I am not really that crazy about it. Still want to do a lot more research befor I make a final decision.
Looks like a Crooked Barn breech. That's an interesting setup, but I'd prefer a different rear sight and front sight myself (am contemplating what I'll do on my own current build) The black bits really set it off, much better than all silver.
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I want no sights and a scope.
I am looking for an air stripper breach for the front. I am not going to do anything to the barrel. I want to use this as a target pistol. And will probably powder coat all the pieces I can except the barrel. That will remain black. The trigger will be brass and the bolt will be stainless steel. I like the tear drop one.
Target guns are always cool. And not a carry or hunting gun. So I could even go with bright red. And some black Accents. Just to be different and stand out.
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It's funny how we all have different perspectives. For ME, "target pistol" denotes good quality open sights. 8) I was raised with the "scopes do not belong on handguns" perspective and so far I've been able to live up to that. However, the longer I live, the harder it is to see some types of open sights. Still haven't given in to the "scopes belong on handguns owned by old guys with bad eyes" group, but one of these days I may just have to give it a try. A couple of years ago a friend had me shoot his S$W Model 41 with a red dot sight. That was a sweet platform and amazingly easy to hit with. I may just have to give one of those a try on a 2240 some day.
As stated before, I'm looking forward to seeing how this build turns out for you. Some find the 22XX platform boring. For me it's fascinating to see how different folks take the same basic thing and turn up with completely different outcomes.
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Dave at Alchemy Airwerks sells polished steel, a shorty stainless steel, and even Nickel plated tubes for 2300's
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p40/MODEL_NickelPlatedTube2240%2F2300.html (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p40/MODEL_NickelPlatedTube2240%2F2300.html)
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It's funny how we all have different perspectives. For ME, "target pistol" denotes good quality open sights. 8) I was raised with the "scopes do not belong on handguns" perspective and so far I've been able to live up to that. However, the longer I live, the harder it is to see some types of open sights. Still haven't given in to the "scopes belong on handguns owned by old guys with bad eyes" group, but one of these days I may just have to give it a try. A couple of years ago a friend had me shoot his S$W Model 41 with a red dot sight. That was a sweet platform and amazingly easy to hit with. I may just have to give one of those a try on a 2240 some day.
As stated before, I'm looking forward to seeing how this build turns out for you. Some find the 22XX platform boring. For me it's fascinating to see how different folks take the same basic thing and turn up with completely different outcomes.
I could not agree more about pistols with scopes. To me it makes them look bulky and feel top heavy. The scope destroyes the balance. But for field target it is a must have item in order to range find.
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Oh! Field target! Gotcha... Still haven't tried that with a pistol. Eventually...
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The only time I have ever done it was at the US Nationals in North Carolina. That was last year and it was fun. I used a P1 magnum and was only trying to hit face plates. I managed to knock down seven targets. I finished last but had a lot of fun. It is challenging to say the least.
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After a lot of thought and web searching I decided to go with a factory finish. I found a main tube from a 2300T. It has all the markings etched into it. Unlike the stamped tube from the 2240. I kinda like that.
After a couple frustrating attempts at painting the frame I found appliance epoxy paint. It is super strong. Is fairly scratch resistant and I can repair it . The grips will cover most of it anyhow. That will save powder coating.
The main tube won't need coating. I can't coat the barrel. The breach comes powder coated so that is it. No more flipping through images of pistols trying to decide on a finish. I do want slotted black screws and I will paint the power adjuster black.
Friday I will order the main tube and it's components.
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1701p from where? thanks
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1701p from where? thanks
Crosman parts
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the smoother the pull on any air gun, make you a much better shot with your 380, 9mm, .45, 45lcolt . at a lot less cost. But printing a small group still makes you feel really special even out in the garage all alone.
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The trigger is as smooth as I can get it. I used Pellgunoil spairingly on all the pivots and the roller in the trigger blade. The two springs are set in notches so they can't slide. Everything is lined up and none of the moving parts touch the frame. The original spring had three pounds of pull. That's with out any hammer or anything on the shear. Now with all the parts finished and lubed it is at 8oz.
I'm looking forward to the next phase. That is the main tube. After that is the valving. I'm putting in a custom rally ported valve from Alchemy Airworks. Also a custom Stainless steel hammer. The power adjuster will come from Cothran.
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If shot to shot consistency is important you might want to use a Disco valve body and stem in conjunction with a Pro-Top. Using a Pro-Top will enable the use of a harder stem, and loosing the OEM 2240 stem mounted piercing pin makes a noticeable difference.
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If shot to shot consistency is important you might want to use a Disco valve body and stem in conjunction with a Pro-Top. Using a Pro-Top will enable the use of a harder stem, and loosing the OEM 2240 stem mounted piercing pin makes a noticeable difference.
This is interesting please provide more information on why the disco valve body? Must it be used with the Pro-Top because of design of the Pro-Top? And where does one source a Pro-Top? Also why is the harder stem better and what is the noticeable difference, flater variance in FPS per shot or something? Do you get greater shot count with a reduced extreme spread in FPS?
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NICE BUILD
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If shot to shot consistency is important you might want to use a Disco valve body and stem in conjunction with a Pro-Top. Using a Pro-Top will enable the use of a harder stem, and loosing the OEM 2240 stem mounted piercing pin makes a noticeable difference.
This is interesting please provide more information on why the disco valve body? Must it be used with the Pro-Top because of design of the Pro-Top? And where does one source a Pro-Top? Also why is the harder stem better and what is the noticeable difference, flater variance in FPS per shot or something? Do you get greater shot count with a reduced extreme spread in FPS?
OK here's why I use the disco valve body and stem with the Pro-Top
The brass 22xx valve would be the better body IF it was made with better QC, and had a better tube to anchor screw fit. If you look at MOST 22xx valve body seats with a 10x loop, most of the ones that I've examined had some nicks or scratches in the seat. These will not seal a harder (Disco) valve stem reliably. They do seal ok with the soft OEM 2240 stem. Which you will notice after some use will have a fairly deep ring pressed into it from seat contact. Why use a harder stem? The best response time, and least amount of "Masking" (minimum seat contact ring) is achieved by using the hardest stem that will still seal. This gets more gas through the valve using the same lift, and dwell time, as there is more gas flow earlier, and later in the lift cycle. The reason for this, because the stem doesn't get as deep a groove in it complying to the seat. That groove actually masks the seat and shortens the valves full flow capability time. Now we're dealing probably with micro secs, but the whole function of the guns cycle is probably measured in the same micro secs. The more control, output, and consistency of the valves operation makes your efforts to improve performance of the gun, go better.
Next, if you've noticed, the OEM 22xx valve body uses a 6-40 anchor screw that has a loose, sloppy fit to the tube. The reason for this I believe is so the woman on the Crosman assembly line can get a reasonably inexpensive gun together more quickly. Stabilizing the valve in the tube is also going to make a favorable difference in shot to shot consistency.
The OEM Disco valve body (also the Boss Disco valve body) has 3- 8/32 anchor screws that secure it to the tube, for the 22xx on 12g powerlets all you'll be concerned with is using the one bottom hole.
Now the following is a simple way to make a precision fit anchor screw. (Assuming that a lathe is not available) Because there is potential danger of Bodily Harm inherent with the use of power tools, or the final installation of the screw I AM NOT TELLING YOU TO DO THIS if you choose to go forward, I ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY..That said, buy an 8-32 x 3/4" button head allen screw from a local Ace hd'wr, chuck it in an electric drill and while spinning it hold a file to the head and "turn" it down until the head is a snug fit to the hole in the tube. This procedure will secure the valve far better than the loose, sloppy fit 6-40 screw that holds the OEM valve body to the tube. After trimming the head down, cut the screw off with a Dremel
and cut off wheel leaving 3/16" of thread. The last thing is to check to see after assembling the valve in the tube is to see if there is any interference with the new screw head and the trigger frame, if there is just relieve the frame a bit with a rotary burr in a Dremel so it clears.
If you are using a breech that mounts with the 4/48 screw in the forward location. The Disco valve body will need a small notch Dremeled in it to clear the screw.
Now,there is an easier alternative to this that yields results that are CLOSE to the above.
Buy from Crosman a P'rod valve anchor screw #1700-010
O K..that's the Why. If anyone needs more info on the benefits of the Pro-Top itself, just ask.
Anthony
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This is what I've done with my 22xx guns per Anthony's instructions. It works great and his pro-tops are top shelf.
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Thank you very much for this information. Is there a source for the pro top or is it all hand made ? And I guess the peorcing pin would have to be eliminated also.
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Thank you very much for this information. Is there a source for the pro top or is it all hand made ? And I guess the peorcing pin would have to be eliminated also.
Yes, if using the oem valve body and stem the piercing pin gets cut off right where it meets the brass. If using the Disco valve body, and stem no mod's to the stem are needed.
Pro-Top's are available. PM me for info.
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I got the main tube and end cap in today from Aliance Hobby I really like the lettering being etched in and not stamped. The blue end cap is a perfect color match. And the threads are super smooth.
I also got the brass safety and spring today from Alchemy Airwerks. I have to give a shout out of thanks to these guys. Fantastic service and products. I placed the orders on Thursday night around 10 pm and the parts are in the mail box Monday. You can't ask for better service.
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I agree 100% about Alchemyairwerks. Dave is excellent to deal with.
Reminds me I need to throw him some more business.
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One thing that I found to work really good on my 22xx's is using an old kitchen hone stone for polishing all the contact points on the seer, it really makes the trigger smooth. The only other thing I've considered was to buy a Marauder pistol trigger group, however after using my present trigger in my modified 2240 even at higher pressures it really is working good for what I use it for which is mainly hunting.
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One thing that I found to work really good on my 22xx's is using an old kitchen hone stone for polishing all the contact points on the seer, it really makes the trigger smooth. The only other thing I've considered was to buy a Marauder pistol trigger group, however after using my present trigger in my modified 2240 even at higher pressures it really is working good for what I use it for which is mainly hunting.
Hey another SW Michigan airgunner!
You own a Prod so you know first hand how the two triggers compare.
Another tip for the OP, spend some time polishing the chamfered face at the bottom of the weight where the sear contacts it if you haven't already. After some fine grit sanding, I polish all these parts using an old 3/4hp electric motor with a buffing wheel on it and red rouge compound. You can do it with a dremel and felt bobs and wheels too but that hammer weight is hardened and takes more work to get it really smooth. I think this area makes a big difference in the feel of the pull, especially after lubing with dry slide or your prefered formula lube.
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Thanks, yes the sear and trigger are polished. I bought the trigger and sear from Alchemy and it is already polished. The trigger has a roller and it is all super smooth.
I had plans to do this work. I have a knife sharpening system I comes with a clamp that holds the stones and shear in an exact angle. It is made to sharpen knives and worked really well for small parts.
I got thenparts together and it is starting to look like a pistol now.
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Did we talk about grips yet?
I coulda swore I remembered you were thinking of using factory grips but I can't see any reference to them now after skimming back through the first pages.
If that is the case I have the black plastic ones I took off my PC77 you can have if you want them. They are the older style but feel pretty nice and are new take-offs. Alchemy also sells a Pachmyer over-grip for this style as well.HERE (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TACTICAL-BLACK-GRIP-GLOVES-Crosman-pistols-13xx-22xx-1701-P-Marauder-Pistol-/291121106106?hash=item43c82b8cba)
Mine look just like these...
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/images/g/Y2IAAOSwQItT4TrM/s-l225.jpg)
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I'm on the fence about the grips. I want target grips and will probably have a custom set made. I am thinking about it for now.
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I'm on the fence about the grips. I want target grips and will probably have a custom set made. I am thinking about it for now.
I want a set as well.
The factory grips are fine but too small for my hands and nowhere near what I would like on my 1377.
I plan to make some eventually and even bought a spindle sander a few weeks ago. Haven't had time to even get it setup yet.
There's a guy on Youtube with a channel Mountain Storm. He makes custom ones from Walnut and shows how he makes them.
There may be forum vendors that make them but I haven't looked into that. I just watch the videos this guy makes and try to learn how he does it.
He starts with blocks of hardwood about 4.5x4.5x1.25 and then cuts away .125 areas on one side for the grip mount. He drills holes for the screws and the safety and then traces out the grip frame shape on the other side. He uses forstner bits and a band saw to rough cut cut the thumb and lower finger rest areas of the hand and shape the grips then the spindle sander does the rest of the work.
They are amazing looking. This video is the one I've watched a half dozen times but he has others that better illustrate the process. Eventually I will post my project in the wood working section.
By the way, this guy does make them to order for people based on what he's saying in his videos. I have watched a number of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Lv8MX0eXw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Lv8MX0eXw)
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And here's another that shows a finished set in Walnut.
Beautiful stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NedLSWB2zw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NedLSWB2zw)
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Can't wait to see this go together! You have my interest. Especially with those grip videos.
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I have seen his videos and that is what I was thinking of doing. I would not try to make them myself. I like grips that fit perfect to a one handed target position with a bottom shelf. Like a Hammerli.
But I think the factory grips will be good for two handed position with a seated rested position.
My new decision is the breach. Definitely want Aluminum and I don't want open sights. Even though I like them on a pistol. Field target will require a scope.
My delema is right or left hand bolt. I shoot right handed and never considered a left side bolt. But then I am thinking I can load and cock the gun with out moving my right hand. This might be a good thing.
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My delema is right or left hand bolt. I shoot right handed and never considered a left side bolt. But then I am thinking I can load and cock the gun with out moving my right hand. This might be a good thing.
As you are building a target pistol and you are right handed, it makes a LOT of sense to get the "left handed breech". It makes it much handier and doesn't require you shift your grip for each shot.
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That is one thing I wish I had done different with my build.
Even though I read a right hand bolt/breech isn't nescessarily mean for a right handed person.
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That is one thing I wish I had done different with my build.
Even though I read a right hand bolt/breech isn't nescessarily mean for a right handed person.
I run my 2240 with the bolt on the right hand side OK, but it doesn't have target grips. My IZH 46M has target grips and all the controls (open breech, pump, insert pellet, close breech) are done with my left hand. No need to release my grip with my right hand. In theory it produces a more consistent grip and thus more consistency from shot to shot. I'm still studying on which breech to use for my continuing 2240 build. The possibliity is that I'll use my Crooked Barn breech and replace the Mellon Air flow through bolt for one that will allow me to place the bolt handle on the left side. Plus there's a good chance I'll keep it 22 this time and the flow through bolt I have is .177. Any way you look at it, the bolt on the left is handier for a right hander and the standard bolt on the right is handier for a southpaw or for a right handed rifle/carbine build.
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Here's the grips that I ordered when I ordered my 2300KT, they're nice grips but I've also been carving on a pair that will be more compact for carrying in a holster. I heard a while back that Crosman's supplier for these grips isn't doing it anymore, I haven't checked the grips available through their kit guns lately.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns/2300KTwithHiPAC.jpg)
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I installed a travel stop for the trigger.
It is an 8-32 stainless grub screw. Sharpened ,rounded and polished. It is flush and smooth with the bottom of the trigger guard. The stop is set to the point the sear just clears the bottom of the manin tube. Now the trigger has a super small amount of smooth travel.
Drilling the hole caused the paint to chip. I don't know why I can't get paint to stick to this frame. I have tried cleaning sanding and primer and a couple different paints. It is just not working out. I'm just going to go with sand blasted for now.
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Careful with the clearance ... You may discover that you need to back it off a little more if power is low or ES is high ...
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I believe the important thing is to keep the sear from touching the hammer. I assume it's important to hold the trigger until the shot cycle is complete. I don't want to tap the trigger. But squeezing the trigger like follow through with a springier
I got some more parts today. The power adjuster from Cothran Machine shop arrived today.
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Drilling the hole caused the paint to chip. I don't know why I can't get paint to stick to this frame. I have tried cleaning sanding and primer and a couple different paints. It is just not working out. I'm just going to go with sand blasted for now.
Personally I think the blasted frame and the same treatment to that aluminum side plate would look awesome with some black grips.
;)
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Ya that is what I need, black grips and the silver frame. It is definitely a good look and very durable. I put a little paint on the power adjuster just to see how it would look
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I want a power adjuster from Alchemy for mine but am still a little unclear to their function... unless to allows me to dial it down to conserve CO2.
Or can I crank it up to get more from my 2300KT?
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I believe the important thing is to keep the sear from touching the hammer. I assume it's important to hold the trigger until the shot cycle is complete. I don't want to tap the trigger. But squeezing the trigger like follow through with a springier
I got some more parts today. The power adjuster from Cothran Machine shop arrived today.
Do those allow you to swap springs without removing the whole kit and kaboodle? That's what I like about the one I got from Mellon Air, remove the adjuster, slide out one spring, slide in the other one. What it DOESN'T have is a lock screw to keep it from moving after adjusted - but so far that's not been an issue, not that I've shot it a lot since installing.
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I want a power adjuster from Alchemy for mine but am still a little unclear to their function... unless to allows me to dial it down to conserve CO2.
Or can I crank it up to get more from my 2300KT?
The power adjuster allows you to change the amount of preload on the spring. Some, like Mellon Air's offering, allow you to swap springs by just removing the screw in part and sliding in a different spring then replacing the screw. Right now I've got the one in my 2240 just barely touching the spring, zero preload. This gives me well over 40 shots per cartridge, 50 IIRC. I've not run it over the chronograph yet, but for punching paper it works dandy. By increasing the preload you can increase velocity, to a point. Of course one also can then run through a LOT more CO2 than before as well. Some are going with the SSG instead of the RVA as it also eliminates hammer bounce, leading to even better conservation of CO2.
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I used some Birchwood Casey super blue. I faded out the etching that said it is not a toy and the web page stuff. I left the cereal number and the caliber information. I also used it on the frame. The frame is an odd alloy. it just soaked it up and turned a soft black. Its very consistent and does not rub off. I painted the metal side cover. I never had problems with the paint on that. The grips will cover most of the frame anyhow.
Next I used some valve grinding paist on the threads of the power adjuster. There was s slight gritty feeling. After cleaning out the grinding paste. I applied a very thick grease to the threads. This left the power adjuster super super smooth. With a little resistance. It feels very nice.
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I used some Birchwood Casey super blue. I faded out the etching that said it is not a toy and the web page stuff. I left the cereal number and the caliber information. I also used it on the frame. The frame is an odd alloy. it just soaked it up and turned a soft black. Its very consistent and does not rub off. I painted the metal side cover. I never had problems with the paint on that. The grips will cover most of the frame anyhow.
Next i used some valve grinding paist on the threads of the power adjuster. There was s slight gritty feeling. After cleaning out the grinding paste. I applied a very thick grease to the threads. This left the power adjuster super super smooth. With a little resistance. I feels very nice.
I'd never have thought of using bluing on the frame as it's non-ferrous. Now I'm curious as to what it looks like, looking forward to the next photo shoot. That's a good tip for the threads on the power adjuster, may give it a try myself.
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I changed the power adjuster. All the other parts are brass. And the stainless adjuster looked odd. Also I was thinking about the discussion earlier regarding a lock nut. So I ordered this off E bay.
I painted the base part to match the main tube. But left the adjusting knob and lock ring brass.
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I received a very nice gift today from Hoosier Daddy. A set of grips! They are in perfect shap and fit perfectly.
Thanks so much Scott.
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This completes the bottom end. I like the brass accents. Now I am moving on to the main tube. Lots of custom work going on in there. This will be the most exciting part of the build I think.
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You are very welcome... Glad they made it!
I was starting to wonder because I had not seen them here yet. Figured Columbus Day slowed things up.
I must say, they look better on your 2300 than they did on my 1377 when I got it. At least now you are one step closer to shooting.
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Nice package in the mail today.
I received my Protop and Disco valve body. Thanks Anthony. Now I will begin sourcing parts to complete the main tube.
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I have ordered the parts to complete the main tube. The spring and the hammer and its related parts.
I have to thank Fivestar45 for his help. Not only has he been very helpful with advice and supplying me with better parts than I was originally going to use. He has also saved me at least 60 dollars on the parts and even more money on parts I was looking at that might not have worked. So THANK YOU Anthony!!!
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There are a LOT of great folk that hang out here, and the spirit of helpfulness permeates the place.
This has been a fun build to watch!
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I have ordered the parts to complete the main tube. The spring and the hammer and its related parts.
I have to thank Fivestar45 for his help. Not only has he been very helpful with advice and supplying me with better parts than I was originally going to use. He has also saved me at least 60 dollars on the parts and even more money on parts I was looking at that might not have worked. So THANK YOU Anthony!!!
You Are Very Welcome Eric
As already mentioned, there are a lot of folks that want to help others with their projects.
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I made a couple parts while I am waiting for the parts from Crosman to arrive. I ordered a P Rod striker number CH2009A009 and a couple other parts plus a spring. I need to make a pin to adjust the stroke and that is 1/4-28 threaded steel. The top is hard steel and adjusts with an Allen wrench. It measures 11/32 in length. The silver one is 1/4-28 stainless steel and adjusts with a screwdriver. I'm not sure which one I will use. I think the shorter one. The tips are ground perfectly flat and polished to a mirror finish.
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I'd use the shorter allen. You don't need any more striker weight if you can avoid it.
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Thanks .
I'm looking forward to getting the striker and spring. It will be fun to make some noise.
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I received the hammer from Crosman. It has a tiny nylon pin called an acetal pin. It drops into a hole at the front of the hammer. Then the striker is threaded into it. The pin crushes and creates a resistance so the striker will not vibrate and move on it's own. I adjusted the striker until I could not feel it pushing on the valve pin. Then went one turn in. This is a starting point to adjust the stroke. I guess this will take some time to adjust. I think but don't know how this will work. I believe turning the striker in opens the valve more. This will increase velocity to a point then the velocity will stop increasing and C02 gets waisted after that.
I also cut a notch into the bottom so the sear Connot touch the hammer. Then I polished and blued the bottom of the hammer where I removed the teflon coating.
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I received the hammer from Crosman. It has a tiny nylon pin called an acetal pin. It drops into a hole at the front of the hammer. Then the striker is threaded into it. The pin crushes and creates a resistance so the striker will not vibrate and move on it's own. I adjusted the striker until I could not feel it pushing on the valve pin. Then went one turn in. This is a starting point to adjust the stroke. I guess this will take some time to adjust. I think but don't know how this will work. I believe turning the striker in opens the valve more. This will increase velocity to a point then the velocity will stop increasing and C02 gets waisted after that.
I also cut a notch into the bottom so the sear Connot touch the hammer. Then I polished and blued the bottom of the hammer where I removed the teflon coating.
Nice! I wish you could have left the tef on the bottom, but just give the tube a light coating of some good light lube. Can you continue the sear relief slot closer to the bevel in the front of the striker?
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I received the hammer from Crosman. It has a tiny nylon pin called an acetal pin. It drops into a hole at the front of the hammer. Then the striker is threaded into it. The pin crushes and creates a resistance so the striker will not vibrate and move on it's own. I adjusted the striker until I could not feel it pushing on the valve pin. Then went one turn in. This is a starting point to adjust the stroke. I guess this will take some time to adjust. I think but don't know how this will work. I believe turning the striker in opens the valve more. This will increase velocity to a point then the velocity will stop increasing and C02 gets waisted after that.
I also cut a notch into the bottom so the sear Connot touch the hammer. Then I polished and blued the bottom of the hammer where I removed the teflon coating.
Interesting so the intention behind this grove you cut into the bottom of the hammer is to prevent the sear from contacting the bottom of the hammer as the hammer flies forward toward the valve after you pull the trigger. But the teflon coating would have resulted in so little friction here I'm not sure how much this benefits anything. Have you or anyone else tested results from this mod?
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After just a couple shots I could see where the teflon was scratching off the bottom. I used tape to protect the teflon but the edge of the groove was not polished smooth. I did not take off the teflon at the corner of the bottom. And I was able to get a merror finish on the bottom. The teflon polished off and is not verry thick. I think this will be OK. I don't think the teflon will last anyhow.
I put in a powerlet and test fired it a couple times. First to test the trigger pull weight. And the check for leakageThat is now just over 2 lb. Its single stage and crisp. I am thinking about an archer Super Sear.
Anyone use it?
When I pull the trigger I hold it until the shot cycle is complete. I will see if there is any blueing being removed after a couple hundred shots before I do anything more to the hammer.
Now it's time to move up. Next I have to make the Transfer port and order the breech and barrel.
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Even thuogh I haven't chimed in lately I am still catching every update.
Acetyl is a type of plastic. Wonder if that is what the pin is made from....Trying to digest the latest teflon description.
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I am using a p rod hammer. It has a nice teflon coating. I cut the groove in the bottom along the path of the sear. The groove had a slight burr along the edge so I polished the center of the bottom portion along the groove. That removed the teflon just in that area. I then blued the silver part I polished. The other sides and the edge of the bottom are still coated with teflon. I used alcohol to clean the hammer and then coated or just rubbed the piston down with oil. This left it clean and smooth.
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That is more clear to me.
Thanks!
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Good
I set the power adjuster to the middle of its travel. Then fired the pistol. I have no breach or barrel at this point. But it is really loud. And white vapor can out. I then backed off the stroke adjusting screw inside the hammer. One turn at a time. After about three turns it just makes a little pop. Another half turn and it does not strike the valve. I then turned the stroke adjustment screw in 1/4 turn and it just fires with a little pop. I will say this is the beginning of the adjustment. Medium power and minimum stroke. Once I get the top finished I can adjust using the chronograph.
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Some very nice custom parts arrived today. The breach and bolt. Thank you Anthony!!
The breach is a lightweight aluminum model. With a left hand bolt. The bolt is brass and the cocking lever is also brass. I did a little custom work on the cocking handle to add my own personal touch. It's not a tear drop shape. More of a wine bottle than anything. And polished to a fine shine.
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Some very nice custom parts arrived today. The breach and bolt. Thank you Anthony!!
The breach is a lightweight aluminum model. With a left hand bolt. The bolt is brass and the cocking lever is also brass. I did a little custom work on the cocking handle to add my own personal touch. It's not a tear drop shape. More of a wine bottle than anything. And polished to a fine shine.
Glad everything got to you quickly. Something that I forgot to mention, although you may have taken care of it already. With the rear location 4/48 breech screw you will need a small clearance groove in the top of the striker to clear the screw. Be sure to use a clamp to compress the T/P when attaching the breech to the tube, then snug down the 4/48 screw. After attaching the breech to the tube if you can slide a pc of paper between the front of the breech and the tube you will need at least one barrel band preferably at the end of the breech to hold it down. If the front of the breech is off the tube you may suffer P O I shifts.
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subscribed
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Thanks Anthony I did cut a small relief into the hammer for clearance. I plan to use two bands one with grub screws top and bottom at the breach and another at the end of the tube with grub screws on the sides. Everything fits nice and tight now and works smooth. But I don't have the barrel or clamps yet. That is the next thing on the list.
I am also shopping for a scope and rings . But that is going to have to wait.
It's starting to look like something now.
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WOW!
8)
What did you use on the aluminum breech to give it the black color?
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After a light scuff with a scotchbright pad I painted it with epoxy paint made for appliances. I taped off the beeach and bottom and filled the cocking slot with putty.
I don't expect it to hold up but I am hopeful. I have a lead on a powder coater. After everything is finished and shooting I will think about sending all the parts out for powder coating. Except the brass and the barrel.
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I have had good luck with appliance epoxy paint on motorcycle parts that see more abuse than an airgun ever should!
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That is what I use on my motorcycle frame and other metal parts. I like Rustolium on the fiberglass fairings. The problem with paint is it will scratch and chip. The good is it can be touched up or redone easy.
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Two part automotive paint out of an airbrush would seem like the toughest and easiest to source. Powdercoating would be really durable and what I would want. Small gun parts would be ideal to coat with these small, home powdercoat setups I've seen.
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The thing with powder coat is it is a single charge for all the parts. I would sand blast them and cork the threads. I would not coat the main tube because of the factory etching. The barrel I would not do because of the heat. All the brass parts would not get coated. That only leaves the frame ,breach ,scope rings and the air stripper. With the black metal finish of the barrel and main tube and scope. I would be tempted to add color. The idea of a dark red has always appealed to me for some reason.
I am also thinking about a fore stock from a 2250. Maybe hydro graphics on them. That could get crazy. I am going to have fun while I save up for the other parts. If anyone has suggestions PLEASE post up photos. I just want to enjoy the journey
This is called translucent mahogany. A friend did his bicycle frame with it.
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If I were paying money to coat my airgun parts, I'd probablly use Cerakote.
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Thank you for that. I forgot to even look into regular firearm finishes.
That took all of five minutes. I found a Crakote applicator just a couple miles up the road from me. And they do powder coating. Now I have someone I can talk to face to face and look at samples.
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Cool! 8) Let us know what you find out. Following your build with interest...
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I ordered a super sear today. After getting everything assembled and testing the trigger pull. It is over 2 lb. it's smooth and has no creep. It feels a little heavy. I am hoping the super sear acts as advertised. Two stage and less weight. If not I will think about the P rod trigger.
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I'm seriously thinking about eventually ordering a Prod trigger group for my 2240 because I just love how my Prod is, best Crosman trigger out there IMO!
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I talked to the powder coater. He wants to see the parts before he can really answer any questions.
My questions are about color and different metal. I have a factory main tube with the Crosman logo and the serial number. Also 2300 T etched in the side. It's not stamped. I used bluing solution to remove all the warning label but left the caliber size. I don't want to loose any of that. So I am faced with choices. Copy all of it and powder coat the main tube then replace the logos and graphics. Or match the color choice to the main tube as it is. Or have the graphics lazer etched into the tube or something.
The frame is a strange alloy. The other parts are brass ,steel and aluminum. I don't want a bunch of different colors or shades. So I'm probably going to go with a mat black sort of thing. I did not ask him about Cerikote. He may do it or not. But he is very close to my house and comes highly recommended .
I am very close to the end of the parts list. I need one more barrel band and scope rings. And the muzzle brake. Once I get those parts I will take them and talk to him.
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More parts arrived today.
Brass end cap on the breach. Just for looks.
Aluminum barrel band. This needs to have the mold seam removed . Then finish and polish and powder coat. The band is the one that will go close to the breach. The grub screws are top and bottom. This will hold down the breach and secure the forward end and take pressure off the tiny philips head screw holding the breach in place under the bolt. The second band will have two grub screws going into the main tube and nothing touching the barrel. This will allow the barrel to float around as it needs to.
And the Super Sear. Fantastic is the final word. But it took a couple hours of fiddle to get there. First it needed to be polished on all sides. It is stamped and ruff. Second the washers also need some work and are thicker than needed. I decided to use them and after polishing them I polished the inside of the frame plates to get a perfect fit. Zero side play and zero drag. Then the fun began.
The modifications I did to the original sear all had to be removed. The spring I was using was very thin . And I had another spring pushing the play out of the trigger. That did not allow the sear to fully lock in front of the hammer. After a lot of trial and error I installed the factory spring and removed the pusher. Now it works great. I can turn the adjustment all the way down. It is to light at under 8oztrigger weight. That is not safe. And I can turn it up and get a nice smooth two and a half pound trigger pull. And best of all it is super accurate to adjust between the two settings. I got the 1.5 lb weight I wanted with ease.
The super sear is a real two stage trigger. The spring I added pushed the trigger into the sear and removed the first stage. That's no good. So now I need to reverse the spring. Instead of a push spring I need a pull spring. I don't like the trigger to just rattle back and forth. So that is the next thing to do.
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Ok you can't drill a hole in a hardened Allen screw. Haha
I ended up cutting a hook and wrapping the bottom ancor of the spring to it. Then a hook/loop at the trigger. Now I have a nice smooth two stage trigger. No play no slop no creep and no drag. It's adjustable for weight from 8oz. to 32oz.
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As we come to the end of the year I thought I would do a project 2230T summery. I will order the barrel Friday. Then a week for that to arrive. I am going to paint all the parts with epoxy paint to see how I like the look of gloss black. Then fully assemble the pistol.
Once it is assembled I will do some chrony testing.
The final thing will be to build a display box. That will be fun. I want to have it with powerlet's ,oil ,tools and pellets. Maybe a short barrel. All set in velvet lined foam.
This what I have so far.
Frame.
Seams removed, trigger stop added, trigger spring anchor. Aluminum side plate
Custom made pins
Breach.
Aluminum long breach. Left hand cocking slot.
Bolt and cocking arm .
Brass long probe, custom Made cocking lever.
Barrel.
10.5 inch Lothar Walther
Barrel brake. Aluminum
Trigger. Brass roller polished trigger shoe, return spring.
Super sear. Polished with adjustable spring
Two barrel aluminum barrel bands.
Factory grips with fiberglass filer for sound deadening.
Inside valve.
Pro top valve with p rod hammer. Adjustable striker, Teflon coated and relieved for sear clearance.
Adjustable hammer spring
Other goodies
Brass safety lever
2300T main tube
All screws are custom made slotted black ,rifle screws.
Total adjustments...
Trigger pull weight
Trigger stop travel
Hammer spring pressure
Striker stroke length
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This has been a fun build to follow. Thanks for sharing.
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I'm thinking about the barrel and how it is mounted into the breech. I don't want to over tighten the grub screws and distort the bore.
I have two on the breech and one on the band. I am thinking of using a thread locker like blue locktight and running it around the barrel in the area of the grub screw. Then gently tighting the screws. I'm thinking this will sort of bed the barrel and prevent it from moving and then the screws will just be a little extra security.
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I'm thinking about the barrel and how it is mounted into the breech. I don't want to over tighten the grub screws and distort the bore.
I have two on the breech and one on the band. I am thinking of using a thread locker like blue locktight and running it around the barrel in the area of the grub screw. Then gently tighting the screws. I'm thinking this will sort of bed the barrel and prevent it from moving and then the screws will just be a little extra security.
I could be mistaken but I find it hard to believe using hand tools in a reasonable fashion you could distort the bore of a LW barrel by over tightening the grub screws. The loctite blue on the screws themselves should be adequate. I use that product on those particular screws every time I put the two together. I would think putting loctite on the barrel or in the breach bore where the barrel is installed would make it really difficult pain in the rear to remove it later should the need arise. Seems to me like needless overkilled overkill.
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I would not think so either. But when I put the forward barrel band on. I put it all the way to the front of the main tube. I did not tighten the grub screws tight at all. Just test fitting the band and it caused the end screw cap to feel tight. I know the main tube is very thin. And moving the band back 5 mm was enough to reduce pressure on the threads. This got me thinking about the barrel. I definitely did not and would not over tighten the screws.
But I was thinking a plastic like substance like locktight would be bennifical to accuracy.
I am using two barrel bands one at the breech. The first one has a top and bottom screw like the factory band. It's purpose is to secure the barrel and breech and remove pressure off the tiny forward breech screw. The forward band is from alchemy airgunworks and has two grub screws that secure it to the main tube and none touching the barrel. This is to protect the barrel from shifting mostly as added security.
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I got some more parts ready. I am still waiting on the barrel. But I got the muzzle brake and the forward barrel band.
I painted the parts with gloss black epoxy paint. It seems to be holding up. I also got a set of scope rings.
They grip from both sides of the scope rail and center well. They are not to high. I don't like to raise the scope up more than I have to. I should be able to get a pellet into the loading port OK.
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Interesting looking rings. What brand are they? One screw or two per side?
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They are from Millett. Made for 22 each side has a separate screw and clamp.
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The final piece of the puzzle arrived today. The barrel!!
Now on Assemble it.
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Fully assembled and test fired. I had to shim the scope and will need to sight in at a greater distance. But out of the box it will stack pellets at ten feet. Feels nice and slim. I can't wait to start testing it out
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SOOO Nice to see the finished product of all your hard labor!
Ya know what's funny?
For the last couple days I been putting together a parts wish list for a 2240 project and this pops up.
Perfect reference material!
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Thank you
So far I have only fired about twenty corsman premiers through it. I cleaned the barrel before assembly. But I am very impressed with how it handles.
The first shot left the pellet sticking out of a board. The spring was turned to full power . But the hammer stroke was at the minimum. I went two turns in on the hammer stroke adjustment. BANG the pellet sunk in deep. It is going to be a lot of fun testing and tuning with all the adjustments
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Reserecting this old thread
I found an old silverware chest on eBay for $10.00 and refinished it to hold my project gun
A friend gave me a scope from his rifle. It says Crosman on it and seems to work better than the pistol scope. I can hold the pistol in my folded arm and hold it very steady. Still need to do a chrony test but it has been cold laity.
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Thought I would resurrect this old thread for an update.
I have never really shot this gun since I finished it. Mostly because I have not shot anything in a couple years. But the scope is my problem. First I had a pistol scope and you hold it at arms length and shoot. Then a short rifle scope that I could shoot from a folded arm or bench. But it just does not do it for me.
So I’m going to put in an adjustable rear notch sight and a muzzle brake with a post.
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Oh, WOW! Talk about a blast from the past! Personally I REALLY like iron sights on a pistol. Have toyed with the idea of a red dot due to aging eyes, but still use irons for my pistol work. Never have tried a rifle scope and a "taco hold" on a pistol, it just doesn't "feel right". :o Lately I've been playing with the idea of using my 10 meter pistol more, but need to get it back from the young man I loaned it to. Don't forget to show us how it turns out with the irons!
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This is the sight set I ordered. Don’t know what it will take to install and get working but let’s see. I am definitely not happy with the scope.
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I've played with the idea of that muzzle brake/front sight, but never did spring for one. Williams makes fine sights, although I've not had a chance to use that particular one yet. I have one of their more rudimentary peeps on my Discovery with the skeleton stock.
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I picked that particular front sight because it said vented. And it is black but silver would do. The rear was kinda the only choice I found with dove tail. I have a terrible feeling I need to raise the rear sight up a huge amount and then a dove tail to pickatinny adapter and a much cheaper sight will work. And this rather expensive one will not. Fingers crossed.
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That is the sight set that Crosman used to offer in their (now defunct) Custom Shop. It should work fine for you, as long as it works for your eyes. I really need to get to an optometrist and get my prescription updated. Have been having quite an issue lately with iron sights (and other things). I'm looking forward to hearing how it works out for you once you get it all assembled. I'm curious as to how that front sight pin works and what it would take to swap it out for one longer or shorter or of a different width.
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Ya know I did read that. But forgot it was actually a Crosman sight. I am sorry to hear the custom shop is gone.
Thanks for putting my mind at rest. The gun is so good I hate to not shoot it because of the scope. I re read this thread last night. It was such a fun build and so many people helped out. I completely forgot about the disco valve.
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As we come to the end of the year I thought I would do a project 2230T summery. I will order the barrel Friday. Then a week for that to arrive. I am going to paint all the parts with epoxy paint to see how I like the look of gloss black. Then fully assemble the pistol.
Once it is assembled I will do some chrony testing.
The final thing will be to build a display box. That will be fun. I want to have it with powerlet's ,oil ,tools and pellets. Maybe a short barrel. All set in velvet lined foam.
This what I have so far.
Frame.
Seams removed, trigger stop added, trigger spring anchor. Aluminum side plate
Custom made pins
Breach.
Aluminum long breach. Left hand cocking slot.
Bolt and cocking arm .
Brass long probe, custom Made cocking lever.
Barrel.
10.5 inch Lothar Walther
Barrel brake. Aluminum
Trigger. Brass roller polished trigger shoe, return spring.
Super sear. Polished with adjustable spring
Two barrel aluminum barrel bands.
Factory grips with fiberglass filer for sound deadening.
Inside valve.
Pro top valve with p rod hammer. Adjustable striker, Teflon coated and relieved for sear clearance.
Adjustable hammer spring
Other goodies
Brass safety lever
2300T main tube
All screws are custom made slotted black ,rifle screws.
Total adjustments...
Trigger pull weight
Trigger stop travel
Hammer spring pressure
Striker stroke length
The Crosman trigger frame is zamak which doesn’t seem to like any paint but powdercoat, I think.
If wanting black, satin is the best, but I also had 2 done in speckled finish when I came to the US.
My 2 trigger frames and 2 barrel bands only cost me P150 in Asia, about $3.00, back then while I paid about a $100 for parts done here in the US.
CCS tubes, without the ugly roll stamps, also take kindly to rebluing, especially when done by professional.
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Here, the tube was powdercoated using metallic dark grey they use on tire rims.
I got a huge discount when they did this ‘cuz my tube went along with a customer’s rims.
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I got the muzzle brake today. Slipped on with no problems. Looks like the barrel is longer.
Now I’m falling in love all over again. Removing the scope is the best thing ever.
Now it feels very light and sleek. Not bulky and top heavy. I can load pellets much easier without the scope and at ten yards having the open sight will be great.
There is so much adjustability in this gun I can make it go puff and lob a pellet thirty yards and bounce off the plywood target. Or crank it up till there is ice coming out and it blast through 3/4 inch ply.
Now without the scope it feels like a new gun.
Still waiting for the rear sight to arrive.
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Yes, indeed. They are a nice, handy little popper!
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I was very concerned about the dovetail size and if the sight would fit. Completely ignored the fact that I have a left hand breach, luckily it all clears. But there was a second that had my heart stopped .
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Took a shot in the garden about ten yards out. Just to see if it was anything close to on paper and it did not look bad knocking some grass around. Then I tossed out a sandwich box and fired another round but the box did not move. So I figured I missed and packed it up. Then I looked at the box.
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I'd forgotten about that possible issue between the Williams sight and a left handed (actually a right handed - on a pistol) breech. Glad it worked out for you!
Now to put it on paper and see how you're doing!
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I am lucky
The sight is meant to be at the back of the block. After looking at photos of peep sights they seem to hang off the back. And the clamp has plenty of room once it’s mounted.
The left handed breech is a custom piece from Anthony. It allows me to cock and load without changing the grip with my right hand. Thumb goes on the power adjuster and the bolt is retracted with one finger. Now without the scope I can just drop the pellet into the breech.
Tonight I might get a chance chronograph and sight in .
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I'm amazed there are not more "left hand breeches" for use on the Crosman pistols. I've got one Crooked Barn breech that can be either or. The others I just reach over like southpaws usually have to do. That's a good looking breech. On the Crooked Barn breech I rest my thumb on the bolt handle when it's set up on the left side of the breech.
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I am really excited now. Kinda sad it’s been so many years between finishing this build and actually doing some shooting. I fought the scope till the end and this switch to open sights is a game changer.
I put out a box from some pellets at 10 yards. Took five shots to bring it in to a surprising accuracy. First shot scrapped the right side of the box. Twist of the wheel and the nest was to the left. Another twist and it was to far left but all three are in a straight line. Dialed in a bunch of up and hit the top of the box. Twisted in some down and right and BANG ! This was done in a hurry and leaning on the back door with my hand. But the pellets went exactly as aimed. I am gonna do some crony test and start playing with all the adjustments.
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First actual testing and it seems pretty good. First I shot 20 Crosman premier 10.5 gr to sight in then some Benjamin 10.3 gr and had a decent spread. Gotta figure out how to shoot with glasses but that is another story.
I noticed the 10 gr pellets are hitting sideways. So I tried some 7 gr wadcutters and they punched nice holes . Did not have the crony up for them.
Then I tried some 8 gr field target pellets but they don’t load smooth but they shot ok.
I’m gonna order a selection of wad cutters and test again.
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Mistakes were made.
When I got the new sight there is a grub screw on the bottom that holds it to the barrel. Once I get the sight level I will file a notch. But the barrel has a big flat spot on the top. So I decided to flip the barrel over . But as soon as I started turning it I realized my mistake. But it was too late. I damaged the transfer port seal and put the barrel out of alignment. So it all had to come apart. Lessons learned. Don’t be stupid.
But there was a piece of the seal inside the barrel that can’t help anything.
I looked at the front edges of the muzzle brake with a magnifying glass and cannot see any signs the pellets are hitting it. But the wad cutters definitely hit flat and the heavy domed pellets are hitting on there sides tumbling or swinging side to side.
Is the instability from the weight. 500 fps with 10.5 seems slow but I don’t have experience with a pistol. Or Co2 for that matter.
What do people shoot out of the 2300 is my question?
One thread I read said 7.0 at 400 fps punched clean holes at 10 meters. I cat turn this down a lot. It actually kicks harder than my TX200.
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Those Beemans seem to want to shoot for you. I was going to say "You need a smaller aimpoint" (assuming you were aiming at the whole square) when I clicked on the image and saw the little marks you've on there. The 7.X grain wadcutters should work for you - as long as the head size is one that your barrel likes. I'd be looking at getting around 4.5 to 5.5 FPE with 7 to 8 grain (approximately) pellets. That keeps the velocity around 500 fps with the lighter pellets.
As for the heavier Crosmans, not all guns like the same pellets. I'd be tempted to try some 10.3 gr JSB's at the same velocity and see what happens. The softer skirts may (or may not) help seal and give better performance and precision.
Shucks, I really need to break out my Crosman pistols and give them a go. Haven't shot handgun much in quite a while - and I miss it.
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I’m gonna order a selection. I have a lot of adjustment to deal with. The screw on the back of the gun changes the spring pressure on the piston. And that is the speed of the piston and the speed the valve opens. Then I believe there is a screw inside the piston that changes how far the valve opens. I need to go back and look at that.
It’s quiet enough to shoot in the yard and I have 15 meters to work with. So I’m gonna play with this for a while.
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At this point I don't recall all the details on your build. I think what you're calling the "piston" is what Crosman designates as "the striker". A quick look at the 2300S exploded parts view shows the typical style "22XX" type striker with no adjustment. The CH2009 designates the same function item as "hammer assembly" and it is indeed adjustable. It requires a forward positioned breech screw, I tried to use it with the rear position type breech and it smacks that breech screw instead of the valve.
Anyway, the power adjuster on the 2300S will give you a lot of adjustability for experimentation. I've got one on... I'll have to look in the closet as I've only one such adjuster and have swapped it between pellet guns a few times. I also have a Melon Air adjuster that's not as handy for adjustments - but VERY hand for spring experimentation as on can slide the new spring in through the adjuster itself without having to remove anything but the adjustment part of the assembly.
Looking forward to your future updates!
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I was aiming at the black center mark. But basically aiming at the center of the square. Shooting for groups through the chroy with the heavy then I noticed the tearing so I fired a couple wad cutters.
I have an adjustable striker that is teflon coated. That allows me to adjust the striker pin length. All the way out and it won’t fire. All the way in and it’s spitting ice. Ten shots from a cartridge. I can dial that part in pretty well as I recall I adjusted it so I was getting 20 - 30 shots.
I have to look back and figure out the Pro top valve with p rod hammer. I honestly can’t even remember what that was.
Edit
Found this
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/attempting-to-copy-anthony-rieneckers.html?m=1
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Got some work done this morning. Two cartridges. First was to play with the power adjuster over the chrony. I turned the striker tip out till it would not fire. Then in 1/2 turn and it fires. So I backed it off 1/4 turn and it goes puff.
All the way down with a new cartridge was 275 fps with 7 gr.
Turned it in and it was sending 7 gr at the maximum velocity of 520.
So I dialed it back and forth till it was at 419. That was like twenty five shots and I wanted to start testing pellets. I was surprised when I unscrewed the cap it was still full. Lost a bunch of Co2 and iced the cylinder.
Full power is 20 shots I just got 60 good shots with plenty left after all the testing.
Then I just started shooting through the chronograph till the power sent below 350 fps.
Next I’ll shoot a string with all the same pellets. It really likes the jab 8.4 match pellets. Not everything feeds smoothly into the breach. The little premier was the best feeding so far.
This thing has a SD of 5 that’s nice.
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Sounds good. My 2240 in 177 will get around 40 good shots out of a cartridge, IIRC. That's putting them on the target in roughly the same place, not sure of velocity as it's been a looong time since I ran it over the chronograph. As it's just a paper puncher/plinker I've not sweated too much on the velocity. I can't recall shot count on the 22 version, but it's at least 30, I believe. I usually just shoot until there's a noticeable lag between shot and impact, or a noticeable drop in point of impact. Or, if someone else is shooting I'll often hear a brrrp from hammer bounce induced by too low pressure due to exceeding the shot count. An interesting exercise is to start with a fresh cartridge and run the same pellets through for a complete string from first shots to last. That gives you a good idea what it's doing. When I do that I like to shoot fairly slow, so it takes a while. I TRY to time it to 30 seconds or so between shots, or even longer, to give the pressure time to stabilize and the pistol to warm back up. There's a reason Ribbonstone calls them "The Boys Of Summer" as they perform much better when the outside temps are higher.
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If you notice the second group with the 8.4 pellets began to notice the effect time has on the shots velocity. If you shoot every ten seconds the velocity will drop ten fps with every shot. But if you wait 30 seconds between shots there is very little melody drop and I danger a standard detour 5. and it beat the bullseye up pretty good.
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I am having a lot of fun with my new 1701 PCP pistol. And I really like the trigger assembly.
It looks like I can buy a whole 1701 trigger group for 80 dollars. Part number 2220-103.
Will this a drop in to the 2300 or is there more to it ?