This Is What Can Happen.....

[45Bravo]

 I am glad they posted it to show the dangers of working with a pressurized system.

Hopefully, we all can take something from this video.


Yes, it's a 2250 or a 2400, the small forearm in the video denotes that.
And yes, the hipac is designed to seal on the valve face,
hence the black seal that is included with the hipac when new.

On the subject of the bandages.
It seems like a small bandage for the wound, and standing there, leaking blood, does make me wonder about the ER that did the work.

When you are sent home, you shouldn't still be leaking like that.

But that's just my opinion...

[LDP]

"Leaking" blood does not indicate a poor job done by the ER. Depending on the type of wound it may not be completely closed to allow draining hence the leaking blood. I had a cyst that was left open to drain after it was lanced and was only packed with gauze. It was a deep hole and every day the gauze had to be removed and repacked until it was fully healed from the bottom up and yes it leaked blood. If it is closed there is a greater chance of it becoming abscessed again.

[Gippeto]

Wow.
I converted and regularly shoot a similar gun. I DO NOT PRESSURIZE THE CROSMAN TUBE. My conversion is a 2400 with a hipac unit screwed into the front have of a 2400 valve screwed into the back half of a disco valve. (Brass 2400 front half scrwed into back half aluminum disco valve). The hipac unit in this setup uses all included parts of the hipac(thinner tube slides into crosman tube while thicker tube matches outer diamter of crosman tube and remains outside of crosman tube.) I only have one retaining screw, a disco valve retaining screw that I reduced the head diameter to fit into the 2400 tube so that the force of the valve rests on the head and not the shaft of the retaining screw (just like a disco, albeit one screw instead of multiple screws) I have been shooting this gun for about two years in various configurations. It never gets filled past 2000 psi. It has been degassed and taken apart several times during which I have inspected the retaining screw. There is no visible deformation of the screw head or shaft.

With my current setup am I running the risk of makimg my children fatherless?!?!

What needs to be done and why...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1328765973/Examining+the+hipac....the

Al

[chekbone]

I haven't been here in a couple of weeks. My last post got taken so far off track and here it is happening again with the quality of work done in the ER. I haven't been at this long but why would somebody work on any hpa gun with that much pressure in it? That's like a mechanic getting under a car without using jack stands. It just don't make sense. What i don't get is how it blew out both ends. I understand how a laugh-n-fart happens out both ends but this puts a twist on probability. Wonder why he didn't tell the guy it had 2k pounds of pressure in it. It's a "dang" dangerous thing and glad he's OK, but something just don't make sense.

[Case Stuffer]

This thread reminds me of this one

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=96148.0

in that like Breaking News Stories  it often takes days or longer to get the facts gathered and sorted out. 

                  j

[Poorman Plinker]

Here is my guess about what happened from watching the video many times. They used the Hipac as a tube extension and cut off the valve sealing end to allow for more volume and to use the Discovery head. (You need the threads of this end to attach to the gun or some other connector with male threads). They installed a Disco valve with one screw and pressurized the gun to 2 or 3Kpsi. The screw began to fail and they had problems "for days". He forced the tilting valve screw out and the valve was resting on the front grip frame screw only. Even against all that pressure he forced the frame screw( "removed the stock" ) out of the way of the valve and the valve shot into his leg pin end first. Just a guess.
As for the Orings... I have ripped them up pretty good by installing them from the rear. I imagine that exiting from the rear would have the same effect.
It is pretty hard to admit to doing something stupid without sounding stupid. Nothing wrong with the Hipac was user error. Thus the missing 4 min.  
"It is a poor workman who blames his tools."

[rsterne]

Franklink.... IMO you should be fine with an 8-32 Disco screw securing the valve in a HiPac.... For those of you using a bulk fill or HPA, however, which pressurizes the tube and loads the front of the valve with a lot more force, here is a video that may interest you.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=72672.

Note on page 2 of that thread the summary.... A single OEM Disco screw is capable of withstanding about 1000 lbs. of force at failure, which works out to just over 2250 psi.... However, that is a single test, not repeated cycles.... To obtain a 3:1 safety margin, the MSWP should be limited to 750 psi, which is not high enough to even use Bulk Fill CO2, let alone HPA.... If you are pressurizing the tube in a 22XX.... you MUST install extra screws to secure the valve.... ONE SCREW IS NOT ENOUGH !!!

Bob

[chekbone]

I must have missed something. The guy on AirgunWorld.com says they used a longer tube than the 2240. That would be a 2250. Then he said they used the shortest hipac. A guy asked if a 2240. He said no, they used the shortest hipac, a 2300. Aren't they the same hipac?
I was talking to a young (72yr old) engineering buddy of mine today. I explained the hipac concept to him as explained on the powermax site, i showed him some youtube hipac videos,  took my gun apart for him to check it out, then showed him the posting video. He drew a conclusion immediately that the hipac wasn't being used as suggested, duuh. Inquiring as to how the hipac flew apart he could only speculate, but suggested this. When the valve was released it created a pressure imbalance throughout the hipac. The pressure jetted out the exit port creating a rocket launch scenario. Had to pressure been released more slowly it wouldn't have become unstable. Based on the video, the lower section held, which they never show removed from the tube. Another thing, if there were three extentions why isn't the rest of it stuck in the ceiling? I mean, darn sorry it happened but there's alot here that like 1+1=3. I haven't been at this long but i read a researched my butt off before getting a hipac. IMHO, there's n8thing wrong with the hipac that not doing something stupid will solve.

[PBguns]

Wow that FB page is really heating up. Attorneys and judge threats.
Shame it happened, can count at least 4-5 things that could have prevented, but was user/builder error. Shame they blame it on the hipac (I just dont see it that way).

[RGTools]

That is scary, but you need to know the hazards of what you are messing with. Thanks for sharing.

[WHITEFANG]

Just looked at the FB page!  I smell smoke! Looks like the fire is lit.💣♨

[Gerard]

Looks like Alex is echoing what a number of others here and elsewhere are saying. Namely that the fault does not lie with his product. I agree. The rude response from that Facebook page host serves only to reinforce my opinion.

[LDP]

Sadly thats how things usually happen. Someone buys a product and uses it incorrectly and when they get burned they go after the person who made the product. To make it worse you never know if the court is going to be smart enough to see where the blame really is. Just look at some of the insane lawsuits that went the wrong way.

[PBguns]

Looks like Alex is echoing what a number of others here and elsewhere are saying. Namely that the fault does not lie with his product. I agree. The rude response from that Facebook page host serves only to reinforce my opinion.

[chekbone]

Have either of the guy, the one who caught the valve or the guy filming the video, who claims it was his gun, come forward anywhere with anything to say?

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
This is becoming a "Send Lawyers, Guns & Money -> The @$%^t has hit the Fan" episode for all parties involved.
The victim's likely not going to come clean because he's being advised to do so could open him up to huge liability.
The tape was made & shared in the fear/emotion of the moment without thinking anything other than watch out so this doesn't happen to YOU and it must have been the HiPac (not ME ). 
Time to bring in the Lawyers to tell the story .............. the Engineer's  Summary will likely be heavily tempered.

But we all get the gist of the F/U; and of course -> hope Randy's leg has a speedy recovery .

[Doug Wall]

OK, Here's a possible mechanism. - We know that the end cap was off, and the hammer was out of the gun. Bob mentioned that the Disco valve is 0.6" longer than the stock valve. With some kind of kluged seal between the Hipak and the valve, it's possible that the Hipak wasn't screwed all the way down (minimal number of threads engaging). If the Hipak came loose, it would immediately pressurize the tube to 2000psi. This could possibly shear the valve retention screw before the Hipak exited the gun. This would result in both pieces leaving at high speed. I can imaging him having the butt end of the gun resting against his thigh, and the rest is history. Engineering failure on the part of the builder, not a failure of component design?

[oldgearhead]

I just hope these events don't lead to government restrictions..

[BigTinBoat]

From the replies it looks as though when "Paul" posted his pic it shows what they did.

He posted the below pic and asked how it was possible to use the tube, disco valve and HiPac together


Airguns World reply was "the photo speaks for itself"

"Walter" asks "How did you seal the hip ac to the valve?"

Airguns World reply - "Just drill out bottom of HiPac where it would go into CO2 nipple, then you have free flow HPA air for a Disco valve to work. Easy, except the HiPacs are feeble at the threads. They do not touch."

If you watch the video starting at the 4:00 minute mark the say "The Hipac severed off", and it looks as though the part of the HiPac that is normally inside the tube is still in there. Only the "external" part of the unit is stuck in the ceiling. It did not get "blown" out of the tube like the valve, it sheared (I think it actually snapped) off when it hit the ceiling.

[WHITEFANG]

😞I have read the posting from top to bottom here and elsewhere?
As the picture in the post by BigTinBoat, the o ring area which was recovered by surgery is at the front of the retaining area? If thus is correct and they state it broke at that point severing the o ring area off?  Came out the rear and the other parts out the front?  FRONT Being  the parts lodged in the ceiling?
How did the rear area behind the o ring area miss the individual as well? 😞
Or was severed part removed prior to the real catastrophic event? Assuming that peice had the exhaust valve housed in it. Or did it defect somehow and go elsewhere?
I know nothing about the high pack so please excuse me if I am wrong. But the part in question appears simular to what the Mrod set up is.💀