Advice before contacting pyramid air on bad pellets

[bigben]

So I have been having accuracy issues recently and I have mulled it over and over and over, some initial steps were taken as seen here: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=92283.0

Historically before I bought this gun from a friend i have put 10 in a row on a 1/2 inch twig at ~50 yards with diablos and last summer it shot diablos well and this summer at my firneds house out of HIS TIN it shot diablos really well at 36 yards.  This year i got a set of diablos off amazon and they shot like @$%^ but they looked bad, really bad.....  so i order new pellets from pyramid air (Diablo heavy 18gr, diablo 16gr, hunter extreme 19gr) and figured I would be fine.  Right now it shoots diablos like &^^&!

So today I went out after swabbing the barrel with 15+ wipes until 2 came out spotless (which i think cleaning was unnecessary but oh well) and inspecting crown and baffles for any signs of pellet impacts and all looked fine to my eye.

What I found was that at 15 paces (15 yards +/- 1 foot) i was shooting like &^^& as seen in the first 4  pics below.  I had what i considered a lucky group with the hunter extreme, but even that had a couple flyers and while i didn't put it together at the time I think this is an important group I'll get back to at the end.  I was filling to 3K and shooting down to 2k which is what i have always done nothing crazy going on there. 

So I took a longer look at the pellets and they looked kinda bad, so i got curious and i was super selective with the hunter extremes as they looked the best out of the three, and i shot a group after a tank refill as seen in the 5th pic, I ASLO saved alllll my rejects when compliling that perfect magazine and shot those *defective ugly* rounds as well as seen in pic 6 and i think that speak for itslef!

So I picked one more magazine of hunter extremes and was even more picky, i refilled, and i pushed out to 30 paces (30 yards +/- 2 feet) and got what appears in the last pic.  Which while not amazing is again i believe pretty telling, this is also why i think that first *lucky* group with the extremes seen in image 3 was maybe due ot hunter extremes being a harder lead, now thats just my person opinion that H&N's are harder than JSB but my buddy agreed with me and thus i think they are less prone to damage. 

That being said ANY dome should shoot better than ANY hollowpoint right>!?!?!  And I picked JSB domes OVER H&N Barracuda Match domes 3 years ago based on groupings i did, cause the JSB was just more consitent, so am i crazy to call Pyramid and ask for a refud or re ship of my order or is this to be expected?!!?!?

TL;DR i think i got a &^^& batch of pellets from pyramid overall agree/disagree?!?!?1

[Roadworthy]

Pyramyd historically packs the pellets well for shipping, but they don't manufacture them.  You might check with Pyramyd for advice on what to do as far as contacting the pellet manufacturer.  You can probably buy poor quality pellets by the same manufacturer from Amazon or even Walmart with the same results.  If quality in a given line of pellets has gone down, it's not the vendor's fault, though if they get enough returns they may discontinue that line of pellets.

[Rdsail]

in my experience the hunter extremes dont shot well in any of my guns or guns that I have tuned.

for me JSBs and specifically JSB 18.1 always do the trick in PCPs.

This is a few thing I would do. that the shroud off and shot a few pellets to check accuracy, Then put the shroud on without the baffles and check again, Then put the baffles on and test.

As far as returning them, If there is no damage on the tin there is no point on returning them. I have many tins of pellets that I have ordered that just sit there in hopes that one day they will shoot well in on gun or another. At times I find someone that can use them and I will send them to them.

[Rdsail]

Have you checked the gun well. Make sure that everything is tight. like breech screws and barrels screws.?

[maraudinglizard]

Also check your scope mounts, reticle, and turrets. If you have another scope that you know works try it. Try some different brands of pellets and heavier as well. It doesn't hurt to try but you will never know if don't. Good Luck.

[Habanero69er]

Maybe I missed it. But, what gun are you using?

[Frank in Fairfield]

If this story is fact and he is not fooling around, he is only 60-70 miles from PA Headquarters.
I would rive up there.

[Habanero69er]

If this story is fact and he is not fooling around, he is only 60-70 miles from PA Headquarters.
I would rive up there.

Cincinnati is a lot farther than 60-70 miles to Solon. They are at opposite ends of the state. It's about 260 miles.

[Stonepark]

It doesn't look like a pellet problem to me as bad pellets give  a random spread when impacting down range as no two are the same and evidenced by your own grouping of the damaged barracudas. What you appear to have is a very closely defined lateral spread from the first two photo's which would suggest either a problem with the muzzle crown not being right or a vibration issue from harmonics. It could also be the extremes are larger headed and less prone to the effect of being bounced around inside the barrel or if your barrel is choked and you are using larger pellets and swaging them during barrel exit you will also get a lateral pattern.

Is your barrel free floating?

[bigben]

I am shooting a Gen 1 Marauder 22 cal, per some advice in chat I just returned home with some crossman pellets form wally world, all they had were HP 14 grain but im gonna run a few mags through and see how they group, a new barrel is not a cost issue im just wanting to KNOW and not just throw parts at it randomly as that takes TIME and im tired of not having any confidence in my gun....  ill be back in a bit with pics...

[bigben]

So I am convinced this is a pellet issue, I shot these two grounps wit ha store bought tin of Crossman 22 cal 14grn hollow points as they did not have domes of any kind.  To clarify all previous groups were shot prone @ 15 yards, it rained last night so that was not an option, first pic is 10 rounds at ~17 yards standing with my deck rail as a rest and the one flyer bottom right is all me i knew i pulled it before it landed, the second group was shot at ~47 yards seated from my living room, I have never shot seated so there is a flyer like 3 inches off screen to the right and the one bottom right you can see, but the last 8 made that decent grouping you can clearly see.

Given that I compared crossmans, AA, JSB, H&N etc for groupings the first week i got the gun, I KNOW that these do not shoot amazing in my gun and compared to GOOD JSB's these were mediocre, I am convinced i just have a bad shipment, given that these crossmans also LOOK visibly better around the skirts, I think this is an ammo issue NOT a gun issue, thanks for input and suggestions, all the help is great and I have learned a good amount about diagnosing flyers, and while not as satisfying as shooting well all the time this experience HAS given me time with my gun and forced me to become a better shooter!

[bigben]

PA has emailed me back and offered a reship, if these are bad ill blame manufacturer, i did offer to send current supply back so that they can look at them.

[K.O.]

I doubt seriously they were bad pellets... just bad in you rifle for some reason... any pics of the pellets?

[PakProtector]

If you pull the shroud and baffles, pull the stripper off too, else it will get blown off and lost. Then( as suggested in the linqued thread) check the shot string performance with a chronograph.
cheers,
Douglas

[bigben]

Given the history of this rifle, if you bothered to read it, and current shooting performance as imaged, and visual inspection of the pellets, you can believe what you want, but visually deformed skirts, a history of shoot that brand of pellet well (for like years with nickle groups at 50 yards), a sudden drop in accuracy WITH JUST THAT SHIPMENT of pellets, and a new store bought tin that shots same as usual, give me another alternative....  I do not have a camarea that will focus down well enough on the skirts...

[Rdsail]

Bigben.

Don't take it wrong people are trying to help you.  I'll give an example. With JSB pellets, they tend to shoot well even with bent skits.

Also, it is not unheard of to mess up accuracy after a cleaning. All you need it to do I miss align one baffle.

Just go through the advise members have given you.

Can you get your hand on some other jsbs and test them.

[Gear_Junkie]

I've skimmed through this thread, but can't tell what the pellets in question are... it sounds like they may be H&N pellets??  If so, I've received 6 bad tins of H&N pellets over the past couple months.  All of them had head sizes that were too big.  I ordered the 5.51mm Baracudas, and the heads were bigger than the 5.52mm and 5.53mm head Baracudas that I have.  The 5.51mm pellets, were even from different batches.  I've also gotten bad JSB Exact Kings before, where 20% of the pellets had bad skirts.  It's not very common to get bad pellets, but it does happen.  What I do now, is buy 1 tin of pellets from a close supplier (usually AirGunDepot), and if they shoot good, order 4 more tins of the stuff.  This practice has helped me avoid the bad batches a little better.

[bigben]

Thanks for the help all ill be fine from here on out on my own with this issue.

[woogie_man]

Remove shroud and try, install shroud try again, install baffle stack...guess what try again.

Doing this wool help find what you're issue is.  Many times a rifle will settle down and the pellet it likes will change.  But being as it sounds like you only want it to work with a pellet you choose....May I suggest many hours upon hours of frustration.  Let the rifle tell you what it wants, don't force it to shoot something it doesn't like.

[Monkeydad1969]

All this discussion, we have all been through it.  But if it wasn't hard it wouldn't be a sport.  And if it was easy we would get bored.

Joe