Is it me or the scope?

[OldFlyRod]

I sent my Leapers 3-9x40 back to the factory a few weeks ago because I could not get it to hold center on my NP2. The factory sent it back stating, they could not find anything wrong with it. After insuring it was optimally centered, I put it on my .25 Marauder and ran a few clips through it and everything was fine. I put it on my NP2. It was shooting a little high, approximately 3" at 25 paces, so I centered it to my gun. It shot well for about 50 shots then jumped off center. Over the coarse of the next week, I recentered it several times. I started getting longer shot strings before having to recenter it. It now seems to be holding center. I shot approximately 100 rounds through it today and it is still on target.
I like this scope but I have lost my confidence in it (Booger) so, I ordered a Hawke Sport 3-9x40. I picked it up for $85 from Airgun Depo.
If I like the Hawke, I'm thinking on selling the Leapers for $50 bucks or just keeping it for a back up.

[Bullit]

Tough question because if a guy starts to "chase zero", he can have problems.
Changing from one rifle that it worked on, and then to another rifle, where it's 3" high at 25 paces (which is a lot of Turret adjustment for that short of a distance).  Remember that the 1/4"@ 100yds Turret click means that you also need FOUR times the clicks at just 25 yards.  Those erector springs inside can get pretty loose that way.
If it worked well at the Factory...and it worked well on your Marauder.... I would be suspect that your NP2 has "droop", and may be more of the root.   
Droop (UP or Down) could be a problem with that rifle.  Optical Centered Scopes are accurate.
But only 100 shots (with so many variables), isn't a very well defined evaluation of the shooter & rifle. 
Perhaps spend a few more short sessions, over more time, with max. consideration to technique?   
Springers and Marauders are different techniques.   Don't chase zero though.

[Scotchmo]

You said that you "recentered it several times". I assume that means that you adjusted the vertical turret.

UTG/Leapers scopes can sometimes be sticky in the erector. Especially when near the max extension of the erector spring. 3" at 25 yards is only about 1/2 turn out so you should still be near middle. But you readjusted several times, so who knows.

Rotate the vertical turret all the way "UP" (CCW), counting the turns as it goes. If I have at least one full turn until it tops out, I'm usually comfortable with that. Don't wrench on it. Shoot it a few times to insure that the erector settles "UP". Then crank it back "Down" (CW) to the original setting. You should be good. If I have to make any fine adjustments, I like to shoot a few to allow it to settle in position. I don't chase the zero with single shots.

[OldFlyRod]

Technique, could be at the root of of my problem. Maybe, I should had purchased an adjustable mount instead of a scope in an attempt to get it it a little closer to matching the optical center or attempted to bend the barrel. Nether option appeals to me. I have the scope as close as I can get it to the barrel without the bell touching. Just when I'm thinking on attempting to bend the barrel. Maybe, I'll start shooting better.

[OldFlyRod]

Scotchmo, I'll give it try this weekend and post my results. Didn't think of shooting it out of center to see what happens. When rotating the vertical turret do you suggest the windage turret be at optical center or leave it where it's at?
Bullet, when I get frustrated with my NP2, I pull out my Marauder. I just enjoy shooting my spinger more.

[Motorhead]

Also LIGHTLY tapping turrets after an adjustment is made helps settle in the erector mechanics.
Use your knuckle, or other not marring means on top of turret knob or reattached cap.

[Scotchmo]

Scotchmo, I'll give it try this weekend and post my results. Didn't think of shooting it out of center to see what happens. When rotating the vertical turret do you suggest the windage turret be at optical center or leave it where it's at?
Bullet, when I get frustrated with my NP2, I pull out my Marauder. I just enjoy shooting my spinger more.

The reason that you might want to shoot it while full "UP", is to get the spring to extend by jarring it with a good recoil. Then crank it "Down" compressing the spring while going back to the correct adjustment. A sticky erector is more likely to accurately follow the clicks when going "Down".

You'll probably be using mil-dots for your holdover at various ranges. Unless you are wanting to click on for every target distance, you don't have to be AT optical center. within 1 or 1.5 turns of mechanical center is good enough. When I go to mount a scope, I center the turns for both turrets. I don't care if it is "optical center". I adjust from there and hope I don't need more than 1 or 1.5 turns of adjustment.

[Bullit]

Rod.   Like Scott and I both have noticed...
When you say you "re-center" it many times...kinda makes us both think that you mean that you actually only "re-zeroing" the scope.   That's what I was talking about as far as Chasing Zero.       There is only 1 "Optical Center" for any Scope or Optical piece. 
!st and foremost is to start with an Optically Centered Scope.  This is easy to do with a simple vertical Line on the wall, and a small box with V notches cut into it.  Lay the scope in it and adjust from there.   Do the vertical turret first, and then rotate the scope 90 degrees and adjust the windage.  When you can rotate the scope back and forth and they are both centered...you are "Optically Centered".
 You Tube it....it's easy.    This is the only way you'll know where you need to go from.

[Bullit]

X2 on "tapping the turret" when you make your adjustments.  It breaks any friction resistance.

[mpbby]

Rod, I'm almost getting crazy with my 350 x scopes don't holding zero, and I can't resist to put here my 2 cents trying it "in another words.." (even with my poor English.., maybe I'm already crazy LOL)

I think you should also do a research about optically centering a scope through a mirror.  For some scopes it's the faster and much easier way.

Then.., if you put the Leapers on the rifle, shoot (at least 3 or more shots), get a 'decent' group, but it is 3" high (25 paces), you'll still have an 'optically centered' scope, but not 'zeroed' at 25 paces.

If you can't get a decent group, I would give up about this scope; something is loose inside, lost of confidence. (period)

Btw, the only chance the scope still has to be 'not guilty' is if there is a 'reasonable doubt' about the spring and/or seals. So, you should try some chrony numbers in order to analyze the rifle internals' health.
 
Once grouping, as far you turn your turrets for 'zeroing' the scope, as far it leaves the 'optical center'.   At the optical center, a little spring that pushes the erector tube stays much more "comfortable" to be able to hold position..

So, in order to don't have to use the vertical turret trying to adjust "all" the 3", besides an adjustable mount or to bend the barrel (arghhh!!), you may try to shim the scope at the - front ring - to reduce the 3" gap (let's say to nearly 1").  In this case, you'll have to be SO careful when tightening both rings' screws; as the scope tube is no longer perfectly laying down on the rings' surfaces, a little bit "too much" pressure and you'll have a dent on the scope tube.

I hope you can understand and it helps you.

 

[mobilehomer]

Rod, I would mechanically center the scope. Then, at 20 yards, shoot a couple groups. Take the shroud off, bend the barrel a little, reinstall the barrel and shoot another group. Mine moves several inches with shroud off. I have bent my Venom barrel, my NP2 did not need it. Easy to do.

[OldFlyRod]

I appreciate everyones advice, as we say down here,"y'all sum good dudes" to be so patient with a Pecan Head like me. When I said recentering, I was trying to say I was bringing the scope back to optical center by counting the clicks and turning the turrets back halfway. (after forgetting how many clicks were made)  After doing this my shots are hitting approximately 3" high at 25 paces.

Ken, on my next shooting session I will mechanically center the scope and shoot 20 to 30 rounds through it to see if it jumps. I have not tried that yet, then I'll follow Bullit's and Marcos steps. Hopefully I can get an uninterrupted session Sunday evening.

You guys have a great weekend. Tomorrow, I plan on taking my kayak out and try to catch a Bull Red on a fly rod and go for a "Cajun Sled Ride". I might even run into one of the Swap People putting out their gator lines.

Thanks again,
Rod

[OldFlyRod]

Well fellows, I'm leaning 80% scope 20% Rod, after, optically centering the scope with the mirror. Ya, I finally figured it out. Get the light right. It helps that this scope's bell doesn't have a built in sun shade. With the scope optically centered I fired 25 rounds. I probably pulled 5 shots but felt pretty confident about the rest. The shots were hitting approximately 3" low. The majority of shots could be covered with a quarter, but several were off by a couple inches in different directions.

I pulled off another 25 shots after checking to see if the scope was still centered. It was not. It was off both in elevation and windage by approximately 5 clicks each. Now this could have been my error. The difference this time was, I checked to see if the scope was centered after shooting a flier. It was off a bit, but did not make any adjustments just kept shooting. This time when I was hitting my mark again, I checked to see if was on and it was. This is leading me to believe the scope is drifting a bit.

As one final measure, I put this scope on my .25 cal. Marauder at the same distance in the stand and drilled 13 out of 16 shots hitting the same hole. I don't want to swap out scopes. I like my 3-12x44 UTG setup on the .25 cal.
I didn't attempt to shim the scope or bend the barrel yet. I ordered a lower end Hawke Scout that should be in this week. I want to do it right from the start. Put it on optically centered take a few shots to see were it pellets land and bend the barrel to get it a little closer to the bull before dialing it in.

I'll follow up again when I put the new scope on. Any recommendations on a crony. I like to know what I'm shooting at. It's one thing I wish I would have done before I self tuned it and replaced the seal with another one from Crosman.

[William]

If it doesn't hold center its bad, it may work fine on a PCP but a springer will rattle it apart, thats all she wrote, take it outside and bury it!

Also if it is centered (optically centered) and it shoots a little high then adjusting the turret to bring the POI down is ok, it will keep better tension on the spring if adjusting POI down, now if it shoots low when it is optically centered (you have barrel droop) and when you adjust POI up it takes tension off the spring inside causing it to have less tension and being more apt to jump around instead of staying on POI.

Send it back and make them replace it,

William

[OldFlyRod]

William, I sent it back once. They could find nothing was wrong. It came back in a box with no packing expect for a smaller clear plastic box with a couple folds of 1/8 foam on the ends. I did get a call from the person I spoke with telling me they could find nothing wrong after receiving an email a week before stating a new one was on it's way.
I learned a lot from this gun and scope. Who knows I may have shot it to many times too far from optical center and ruined it from heavy recoil. I was thinking about selling it when I got my new scope, but I don't want to sell something that is broken. It will be a good back up on another gun.

I know this may sound dumb, but when I get it shooting good, I tighten down the turrets and it seems to change the POI, but could be happing with it loose too. I may have not have noticed.

I turned back the mag and placed a mirror on the scope and it is off optical center right on my first test shots hit before centering for the bull. That makes sense. Doesn't look like it is to far off as I would have thought.

[Mbob994]

I have had the same issue with several different Springers with different scopes. I finally decided to get a Discovery because I just can't seem to master the technique. There is a reason field target completions are mostly won with 12ft lb spring guns. It seems it takes us all a while to realize speed isn't everything.

[jaraxle1zx]

I did same thing today, 32 yards grouped 8 inches down for 6-8 shots then started to hit Bulls eyes for 6-8 shots and grouped 8 inches to low for over 30 shots.
I wonder if me adjusting the zoom had anything to do with it. Np2 trail and 4-16 center point scope with lock down adjustments.
Me and my brother had same trouble with AO 4-16 center points on our bt65 25 cal. Replaced scopes and started stacking pellets in same holes.

[jaraxle1zx]

My bad I just checked and the center point had a few screws backed out.
This has been the best center point I have had so far.
On a better note I took out the bt65 25 cal at same range and pellets on pellets. Shot two clips and had a blast, it's so fun having a scope that is on.

[William]

William, I sent it back once. They could find nothing was wrong. It came back in a box with no packing expect for a smaller clear plastic box with a couple folds of 1/8 foam on the ends. I did get a call from the person I spoke with telling me they could find nothing wrong after receiving an email a week before stating a new one was on it's way.
I learned a lot from this gun and scope. Who knows I may have shot it to many times too far from optical center and ruined it from heavy recoil. I was thinking about selling it when I got my new scope, but I don't want to sell something that is broken. It will be a good back up on another gun.

I know this may sound dumb, but when I get it shooting good, I tighten down the turrets and it seems to change the POI, but could be happing with it loose too. I may have not have noticed.

I turned back the mag and placed a mirror on the scope and it is off optical center right on my first test shots hit before centering for the bull. That makes sense. Doesn't look like it is too far off as I would have thought.

I had a 3x9 of the same scope do that on my gas springer, wouldn't hold POI after sighting it in every 20 shots or so, finally one day the cross hair just turned about 10 degrees counter clockwise, I thought I had loose scope rings but the scope body was level, so I Returned it and purchased a better one!

Its hard to get a good scope to hold up against a springer, they really take a beating! They will work fine on a PCP 99.9% of the time.

If the POI is changing when you tighten the turret down then something is wrong inside, it shouldn't change at all!

William
 

[William]

I did same thing today, 32 yards grouped 8 inches down for 6-8 shots then started to hit Bulls eyes for 6-8 shots and grouped 8 inches to low for over 30 shots.
I wonder if me adjusting the zoom had anything to do with it. Np2 trail and 4-16 center point scope with lock down adjustments.
Me and my brother had same trouble with AO 4-16 center points on our bt65 25 cal. Replaced scopes and started stacking pellets in same holes.

On them 4-16 center point scopes, you either get a good one or you don't. I learned the hard way on several scopes and springers! I destroyed 2 of those Center point scopes like yours and a leapers.
They may hold up for awhile but will eventually die on you!

William