Is it me or the scope?

[cav707]

I was wondering if it is the break barrel lock up. I could not get the scope zero'd in so I put a united 3 x 7 that I had on a Marlin Glenfield model 60 that I could shoot a dime at 50 yards with. Zero'd @ 20 yds. the united on the impact and then with in 5 or 6 shots it would drift 2 to 5 inches. Re zero and the same. I took the scope off and could shoot 5 shot quarter size groups with open sites all day even with my old eyes. Just asking if anyone else thinks it's poor lock up of the barrel. The scope sits back of the barrel and the open sites are on the barrel? Just wanted to ask? Thanks for reading!

[William]

I was wondering if it is the break barrel lock up. I could not get the scope zero'd in so I put a united 3 x 7 that I had on a Marlin Glenfield model 60 that I could shoot a dime at 50 yards with. Zero'd @ 20 yds. the united on the impact and then with in 5 or 6 shots it would drift 2 to 5 inches. Re zero and the same. I took the scope off and could shoot 5 shot quarter size groups with open sites all day even with my old eyes. Just asking if anyone else thinks it's poor lock up of the barrel. The scope sits back of the barrel and the open sites are on the barrel? Just wanted to ask? Thanks for reading!

Lockup may be the problem but if you close the barrel and it locks good and tight I wouldn't think that is the problem. You have either a scope that cannot handle the recoil of a springer or barrel lockup or maybe both!

A lot of scopes cannot handle the recoil of a springer, it recoils in both directions giving the scope a good slamming forward and backward. You could put that scope on a 30.06 powder burner with a heavy load and it may work just fine, this is due to scopes are not made to withstand recoil in both directions, you need a scope that is Airgun Ready these scopes are made to withstand a beating from a springer!

William

[mpbby]

Rod, I don’t know if I’m missing something..(always possible), or you’re telling me a breakthrough to my needs.

It seems to me it’s VERY (!!!) wise your approach to check a scope’s current capability to hold the ‘optical center’ when you don’t work with the turrets. 

Indeed, during these tests, the POI itself doesn’t even matter, and you may isolate the scope as a single cause to POI shifting, no matter other possible causes, as rifle issues, shooter, pellet,..
If, even at its more comfortable circumstances and after a 'recoils' test', the scope is not holding the erector tube position, we all know in advance the POI will shift.

If you please, am I missing something?

[OldFlyRod]

Marcos, the POI seems to matching the crosshairs when I put the mirror up to the scope. It seems the cross hairs are not staying in one spot. Also, I noticed the feel of the turrets seem to change at times from easy to tight.

My Hawk Sport w/o lamination will be in this week. I'm curious to see how it sits on the gun. Also I plan to Lapp the scope, something I didn't do with this one.

[Bullit]

I'm kinda thinking that you may have a more consistent (comfortable) cheekweld on 1 rifle, versus the other.  Sounds like the scope is good,,,but cheekweld consistency, may be throwing you off a little, with parallax differences.  If it only needed 10 or less clicks to zero it, that scope is "good to go".   Do you notice comfort differences when you mount both of the rifles to your eye?

[OldFlyRod]

Hey Bullit, now you have opened a can of worms  I'm approaching 57 years of age, When, I was first sent to a Catholic school in the 60's. I was told by the nuns not to write with my left hand and forced to write right handed. (left hand of the devil thing) They thought I was "special" and wanted me to be evaluated for special ed classes. I couldn't write my ABC's until the end of 1st grade. But when it came to baseball or boxing the priest wanted me because I was a South Paw and said, I would be an assest to the team. Go figure,  I'm still confused. Then came duck hunting. My first gun was a 20 ga. right handed pump so, I naturally shot right handed so the spent shells would not hit me in the face. From day one I have shot right handed, wrote right handed , but played ball left handed. When I take the eye dominance test my right eye is dominate. Just don't ask me to shot a bow or sling shot. Long story short I was 40 years old before I realized I was left hand dominate, right eye dominate.

This is a reason I asked a friend who is an proficient PB shooter who has set up many scoped guns to shoot with me to ensure it's not me making a mistake and blaming it on the gun. He also noticed some shift also, but had admitted it could be due to his lack of springer experience. 

PS. I won a small scholarship for exceeding in academics under hardship conditions in college. Sorry for the rant long day at work.

[condor22]

 Your scope is bad, send it back for refund or exchange, tell them it won't hold zero. Sell the exchanged scope to recoup your loses.  I think you have information overload here.  You need some trigger time, rest, and some more trigger time.  I think it's time to zero or center the scope and shoot some daily for a few days and absolutely don't change anything on the rifle.  Or the scope, don't turn turrets, or the focus.  Do you have someone else to test your scope, do they get the same or different results.     

   Practice on form (cheek weld) and follow through.  This way over time the scope will continue to drift from center/zero getting progressively worse, bad scope, or you'll begin to get more bullseye and less fliers.  If the pellets pattern like a shotgun it's definitely not you. Good luck.  Use the center of the reticle, for aimpoint and always aim at the same spot regardless where the pellet hits. Don't chase point of impact POi with Point of Aim POA. Always use the same POA and let the POi tell the rest of the Story. 

 Your springer is a 'Known Scope Killer', most likely it'll kill the Hawke, eventually, probably not quite as quick as the UTG/leaper?

[OldFlyRod]

No doubt, I'm over thinking this. Cheek weld, consistent trigger pull are defiantly factors that I need to be worked on. One thing is for sure when I put this scope on my PCP it stays dead on. While my friend is not an avid airgunner, is a good shot and for the most part can outshoot me with this gun. Over the past month he has shot my NP2 almost as much as me and has noticed changes in the POI vs POA. Again, thanks for everyone's help. You have made me a better shot and better listener. Hopefully, I can pass your knowledge on as you have.

[mobilehomer]

Just to throw another monkey on the fire. My NP2 and Nitro Venom both vary greatly depending on temperature. They stay pretty much the same as long as the temp doesn't change by more than a few degrees. But go from 30 to 50 and the POI jumps several inches. I have finally decided to not chase zero 'til the temps get above 50 and stay.

[OldFlyRod]

More goes into making a good shot than meets the eye. How many variables are we looking at. Let's see, this should get you started.
1.Temperature, 2. Cheek weld, 3.Trigger pull, 4.Type of pellet, 5.Scope drift, 6.Fatige

[jaraxle1zx]

Went and set my scopes today.......center point just wouldn't get its act together would hit bullseye then very next shot 3 inches down then 6 inches up. Shot about 25-30 pellets and same thing here there and every where pellet placement.
At44 with a loaner bushnell and bt65 with new scope both set fast and held.
Center point scope I guess would be real nice shooting at a large flock of birds on the ground.
Guess I need 2 more scopes........or i might buy the bushnell if it keeps holding its aim.
This really blows because I liked the center point but I guess it's time to move on.

[OldFlyRod]

Let us know what you decide Jason. Hopefully, I won't still be in the hunt.

Got my Hawke Sport today. The Turrets look like they're going to be a little harder for me to grab with my gorilla paws. Glass looks good. As with anything new, I'll get used to it. Didn't realize how much I liked the Leapers.

[jaraxle1zx]

Might be the gun, I tighten all bolts, cleaned barrel, cleaned ldc. Even put the bushnell on the Benjamin and same thing. Random shots, if I keep shooting they will group in different places. Maybe it was the drop of Rmcoil I put in the air chamber like crossman says to do every so many shots. Seems like it started doing this after I put a drop in. Over 200 shots later and gun is still over shooting smoke and all.
I checked ldc and pellets are not hitting it.

On bright side I got a great buy on a Leupold lll 4.5x14-40. So at44 and bt65 have nice scopes.

I never had a problem with the np2 before and was a good gun. I will keep running pellets thro it and hope for the best. 
So maybe my old center point is still good.
Ldc does get dirty might be good to clean it for time to time

[OldFlyRod]

I sighted in my new Hawke Sport on my NP2.  I lapped this scope, I didn't lap my Leapers. When, I optically center the Leapers and fired it, the pellets were hitting approximately 2 1/2 to 3" high left. After optically centering the hawk, I'm less than 1 1/2" high left. From there just a few clicks to get it right and I'm covering a five shot string with a nickel at 25 paces. It did take more shots than I would have thought to compensate for the small weight differences of the scope when shooting from the standing position vs. using bags or my favorite shooting position leaning against a post or tree. I'm about to open a second tin after two days of shooting. Good thing, I'm somewhat ambidextrous  my left arm is feeling it.

[jaraxle1zx]

Let us know what you decide Jason. Hopefully, I won't still be in the hunt.

Got my Hawke Sport today. The Turrets look like they're going to be a little harder for me to grab with my gorilla paws. Glass looks good. As with anything new, I'll get used to it. Didn't realize how much I liked the Leapers.

Hope your new scope works out. Turns out my np2 was messed up.
I got a new np2 and the old center point scope is dead on......lol
I never had good luck out of the new AO center points but this one is an older model with locking adjustments and I kinda like this one.

[OldFlyRod]

I find my new Hawke Sport a bit harder to focus but that is getting easier the more I use it. One thing for sure, it is staying put. I've about to go through my second tin and have not touched the turrets in over 500 shots. Next mod will be to put the JM piston seal in. Also, I have had an issue with the trigger not engaging fully. At times it feels like it isn't a two stage trigger. Maybe I'm not breaking to barrel fully. It seems to do it more after I've been shooting awhile. Crosman, is sending me a new trigger assembly. When I change out the seal, I'm going to work on the trigger.

[condor22]

 There's an old saying in flight school "You have to trust the flight instruments!", same in machine shop technology " You have to trust calipers/micrometers as measuring instruments! " and now I say when shootin' " you Have to trust the scope! ".  I won't accept anything less, if it's not trustworthy, then warranty repair/exchange or refund my $. 

[OldFlyRod]

One thing is for sure. If I trust my equipment, I'm quicker to look at what I may be doing wrong instead of blaming the gun.

[SpringerForever]

Based on my experiences with scopes on my super magnums, it's definitely your scope.

I've had so many scopes fail, that the 1st thing I do if I even remotely suspect that a scope isn't maintaining POI is, remove the scope & shoot open sights. If my open sights groups are better than my scope groups at 25 yards then I absolutely know that the scope just took a dump. Especially with my eyesight! Which isn't the greatest.

Also, I've had a brother shoot the very same rifle/scope setup immediately after I suspected a POI shift & his groups ended up in the same place as mine so I had further confirmation that the scope had taken a dump.

If you've got some time & don't mind doing some reading, here's my scope saga:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=53883.0

As a result, given up on most "name brand" scopes supposedly magnum airgun rated & resorted to buying only made in Japan Tasco scopes off eBay. Unbelievably they've done far better than any other scopes I've used, including some $500+ optics.

What do you get when you mix a supposedly magnum rated scope with an actual magnum air rifle? Absolute garbage! Yeah, I'm disgusted. If you can't tell. :-)

[OldFlyRod]

Wow Springer, sounds like you have the scope company's numbers on speed dail. Have you tried the Bullseye ZR mount. Looks like it does double duty as a recoil  and droop compensater. They're proud of it for sure, a hundred bucks plus shipping.
My Hawk Scout is still holding up. I thought the glass would be clearer than the Leapers but not on my scope. I opted for the lighter scope, no need for battery powered opticals on this gun.