Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock

[Hawkeye51]

Hey guys

I have reread all of the posts I could find on soft bedding as I have a Diana 34 and a Crosman Summit slated for this procedure in the very near future. Primarily interested in reducing perceived recoil, and some hold sensitivity.

Pelletcaster, did the formed silicone liner made a big difference in recoil?  Accuracy affected either way?

I saw two posts where people were going to try Sorbothane for its superior dampening properties, but no reporting or feed back post installation.

Noene makes insoles that are thin and have incredible vibration absorbing properties (shark-tank demo). Has anyone tried tbat material?   Old thread, but good material, I hope some guys jump back in with new reports.

[FWB-Springer124]

Aloha, I had good luck with self stickum silicone cabernet bumpers. go to home depo these bumpers come in all sizes and alot of thickness. I used round flat watch battery size about 1/8" thick. place circles ( get some squares too) about where you want to put the silicone mark and apply contact peel and stick.
the little contact cement before you apply the silicone will insure good adhesion. less that comes off if you take stock off.  litely tighten 1 hr. later 1/4  turn on stock screws 1   hr. 1/4 turn and so on. did my FWB-124 AND WITH A HOME TUNE (V-MACH) MAKES IT LESS HOLD SENSITIVE. KILL ALOT OF FELK VIBRATION  RECOIL. put behind main stock lug & removed some wood I'm redu, got some 2" x 1/8" self stick um. silicone.
SPRINGER

[Jshooter71]

I’m going to try the foam tape that Don mentioned. I work in HVAC too, and when I read his comment, that was confirmation for me. I have tons of rolls, different materials and sizes. For those that don’t know where to get the stuff, this one should work best I think. Looks like it can be had at nationalsupplydirect.com.

[FWB-Springer124]

Just finished, this time I REMOVED ABOUT 1/8" of wood on all contact areas, I'm using neoprene fender washers 1/16" & 1/8".
And what I did difference was observed a 1" hole where the main trigger screws in to the reciver. cut a 1" 1/4" circle and hole for the bottom where the reciver nut contacts the stock , and put a 1" rubber groment over there receiver round nut. THEN  added the neoprene bedding the stock used 1/4" on the back contact point. I carved the contact point under the safety to fit the 1/4rubber buffer. NOW the front stock screws I USED A rubber grommet sandwiched between 2 flat washers and A star washer Tvthe screw head and the flat washer.

[Hawkeye51]

Kory

Let us know if you can tell a difference when your done. I ended up using a thin felt for mine, and the difference in  perceived recoil is minimal @best.

[wolverine]

i bought a roll of the suggested material and installed it on one of my rifles, but i can't remember which one.  may have been the 34 i sold.  i'm doing some maintenance cleaning on all my rifles today so maybe i'll go ahead and install it on the break barrels.  if i get around to it, i will post back.  problem is, waiting several days to shoot it, i'll forget how it originally felt. 

[MartyMcFly]

I’m going to try the foam tape that Don mentioned. I work in HVAC too, and when I read his comment, that was confirmation for me. I have tons of rolls, different materials and sizes. For those that don’t know where to get the stuff, this one should work best I think. Looks like it can be had at nationalsupplydirect.com.

John, were you satisfied with the Armaflex tape? I went in the same direction and tried the AP/Armaflex 1/8" thick tape from Armacell. I bought it at homedepot, model #TAP18230. Unfortunately, I did not see noticeable improvement. I believe this tape is either too thin or compresses too much due to its cell structure.

That said, I found that the best way to remove it afterwards is to use the rounded side of a popsicle stick and then use a pencil eraser to remove any remaining adhesive.

I'm going to try a denser material next...

-Marty

[FWB-Springer124]

Just finished, this time I REMOVED ABOUT 1/8" of wood on all contact areas, I'm using neoprene fender washers 1/16" & 1/8".
And what I did difference was observed a 1" hole where the main trigger screws in to the reciver. cut a 1" 1/4" circle and hole for the bottom where the reciver nut contacts the stock , and put a 1" rubber groment over there receiver round nut. THEN  added the neoprene bedding the stock used 1/4" on the back contact point. I carved the contact point under the safety to fit the 1/4rubber buffer. NOW the front stock screws I USED A rubber grommet sandwiched between 2 flat washers and A star washer Tvthe screw head and the flat washer.

Here's a pic is the stock screws and some removal COCKING ARM RIVOTs. for FWB-124/127 HW77K. AND A TRIGER GUARD I MADE FROM A HW-35 TO FIT MY FWB-124 . the round rubber grommets go on the reciver nut round disk with hole goes in the hole. I enlarged the hole for the reciver nut to fit. the stock screws , reciver nut and the thicker rubber at the back if the reciver, made the most differance in vibration and recoil . I have 3 FWB'S 2X 124 & A127 .22CAL. AND A EXTRA NON DELUXE BEACH STOCK . I EXPERIMENTED WITH THE CHEEP STOCK BE FOR I DID MY WALNUT TYROLEN STOCK. IF I HAVE TIME TOMARROW I'LL TAKE IT DOWN & POST PIC'S. SINSE I HAVEN'T SHOT IT ENOUGH ALL I CAN TELL YOU I TUNEN IT HOT AND THE RED NECK WAY I TESTED IT WAS I PUT THE RECOIL PAD ON MY CHIN AND SHOT IT , LIKE GETTING PUNCH. NOW FEELS NOT SHARP JUST LIKEVA NUGE. ONLY SHOT ABOUT  100 RND. AND OF SHOOTS GREAT , BUT IT ALL WAYS DID. WHEN I FINISH MY OUT TESTING OUT DOOR RANGE I'LL POST.

The removal of  1/8" of wood from the stock made it much easier to attach to the stock with out clamps. the removal cocking rivot
I can adjust and lock tight the barrel pivot pin. t
for good . leave barrel on an nd still remove piston  .
Springet

[FWB-Springer124]

FWB-124 SOFT BED. PADDING THE RECIVER NUT. WELL WE PASSED THE RECEIVER , THE REMOVAL OF 1/8 OF WOOD FROM CONTACT AREAS , WAY EASTER TO REASSEMBLE TO STOCK WITH OUT Clamps. put two rubber groments on the RECI we nut .widens the hole where the reciver nut fits in to the stock. if you think about how much virbrasion is transfers to the stock thrpugh a metal to wood recover nut. 2  tight stock screws . Here are the 2 stock front  trigger GUARD screw goes in to reciver nut. home made removal cocking arm rivot, trigger GUARD for FWB-124 MADE FROM HW-35 TRIGGER GUARD I'm using "1/8 & 1/4" nepream from a bag of auto fender washers I got from a auto body shop that was closing and a ton of O- rings. I like it because it's stiffer than weatherproofing. the 1/4" was used behind reciver , bottom of reciver hole the rubber grommets on the reciver nut are a thich 4.38mm. , I shoot it with out the stock screws passed & the unpadded reciver nut , up against my chin ,it was smart , and after the stock screws & reciver nut padding , only a NUGE cut vibration and recoil by 60+ %. Hope it will give some one ideas to do one better will post after I shoot 500 rounds at 40yds. Now my Fwb-124 was tuned kind of hot , that was my 1st. tune last year 7 he. 889fps. Beeman LASERS low 900's. but felt harsh. now smooth! well have fun
Aloha

Springer

[DanD]

That's brilliant removing some wood so you have room for more dampening material between the stock and action.

[Jshooter71]

John, were you satisfied with the Armaflex tape? I went in the same direction and tried the AP/Armaflex 1/8" thick tape from Armacell. I bought it at homedepot, model #TAP18230. Unfortunately, I did not see noticeable improvement. I believe this tape is either too thin or compresses too much due to its cell structure.

That said, I found that the best way to remove it afterwards is to use the rounded side of a popsicle stick and then use a pencil eraser to remove any remaining adhesive.

I'm going to try a denser material next...

-Marty
[/quote]


I haven’t tried it yet. I have 2 rifles I think could benefit from this. My Diana is a synthetic stock that shoots fantastic groups out to 70 meters, but has some buzz in the stock during the shot. My Octane Elite is a handful, but needs a trigger job/mod in the worst way. I want to do the Octane first with the trigger job at the same time. I need to order the trigger component and then I’m going to do it, that rifle gave me fits until I got the Diana AMO3. Now I hardly shoot the Octane.

[jusanothajoe]

I tried this on my hold sensitive D34, I could tell no difference in the hold sensitivity, and it made the breech block and barrel start rubbing the stock while cocking.
I had high hopes, but it didn't work on my gun.

[wolverine]

I tried this on my benji trail np2 last  November and forgot about it! I'll have to pull it out, check the screws, and put some pellets down range.

[rudygu]

I’ve tried twice on my Benjamin Trail NP2 - First with the Home Depot armaflex tape and then with the 1/8” solid neoprene adhesive strips. The armaflex compressed too much and didn’t really do much of anything, but the neoprene definitely softened  the sound. Unfortunately, I couldn’t test from a bench because the strips managed to shift and interfere with cocking the gun after about 24 hours. I’ll experiment with strip size/placement and give it another shot pretty soon.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed over the years to this thread. This is the kind of info that makes GTA such an amazing resource!

[Fate]

First, my undying thanks to TimmyMac1 for this thread, and to all those who have contributed to it.

When I did this to my old '81 RWS/Diana 35 last year it was the final gilding of an already excellent shooter. Over the years I'd already attended to everything I could to refine its accuracy and had been happy with dime sized 10m groups. But of course I wanted better. The soft bedding was the answer. After bedding it I could bench rest it and get one hole, often as many as five in a single pellet hole and no group larger than a half pellet more. Oddly, while such accuracy was indeed satisfying, there was nothing left to conquer, and it became, in a way almost boring.

So this year I got my first new air rifle after nearly 40 years, a new Diana 48 T06 a week ago. What a difference from my 35! I had to learn how to shoot all over again... and though I changed scopes twice and varied all my knowns it still produced what seemed like scattergun groups... varying between 1 and 3 inches. After the accuracy of my 35 I got discouraged. Blamed the gun, the scope, my shooting, and even considered giving up and sending everything back. It was depressing.

After reading until my eyes bled about the artillery hold, then practicing it the best I could, I found the more than ten pounds of rifle and scope too much for me to hold accurately that way, though it did make a difference I knew I'd never achieve the accuracy I required using it. Too wiggley for me at the best, though groups did shring of course. So I tried my bags again and it got worse... every shot the rifle would shift POA by two inches at the target. Every. Shot.

Yesterday, deciding to grab the last straw and "soft bed" it like I did the 35. I'm posting this because what I've done on this D48 is what I did on the 35... but was afraid of the feedback if I revealed what I used. However, now that it's done even more for my D48 than it did for the 35 I'm taking the chance I won't be tarred and feathered when the method I used is revealed. But the results are extraordinary and I must. I can, as TimmyMac promised, use my bags again... and get 1/4" groups so far though I expect better as time goes on. And I love this gun now. It's a beast to me but worth every penny as opposed to being a vast disappointment a day ago.

After finishing the bedding job last night I shot a single group off my front bag, flat side up with a microfiber towel on it as usual... and got a sub-half inch group!. I was thrilled and quit for the night right there. Encouraged this morning I decided to add my rear bag, but with a difference, because I now understand what the artillery hold mechanics are all about. I used the rear to only steady my guiding hand on the bottom of the gun's butt rather than resting the gun in it the way I've always done. I put 10 JSB Hades into a 1/4" hole.

When I took the action out of the stock I was impressed with what Diana does on this gun, but also saw reason for bedding it. There was obvious chafing betwen the left rear of the action and stock with marks on the wood and residue on the action, for one. I also noted the rear protrusion over the stock beneath the safety had left a small dent, as well as contact at the front mount where the metal washer had dented the wood instead of being separated by the flexible bushing/washer there. I first sanded it all smooth inside and cleaned it up with acetone to ensure a good gripping surface. Interestingly, it seems the action's mounts are slightly offset to the left in the stock, leaving no possibility for the action to contact the wood anywhere on the right side... so bedding material would need to be everywhere but there. I also used the bedding material as a rubber washer under the front screw's metal washer, leaving only one metal-to-wood contact in the gun the rear screw in the trigger guard. Then of course I used Vibra-Tite VC3 on the screws and tightened it very firmly and put red witness marks on the screws.

Time to put my solution out there, and why I used it. First I used it because after trying everything mentioned and everything I could think of, none worked. The gap in my two Dianas is simply too thin. A year ago just before giving up and buttoning the 35 up I had a thought and tried it, which worked as described and used on my D48 with the same but even better success.

I used... FlexSeal Flex Tape. It's thin rubber has a sticky back that will never move, never compress and need retightened, and is easy to cut to shape and fit although you only get one chance so it takes some cautious effort but it is there for good. Removing it would be a chore.

So there it is. I'm finally out in the open among the most amazing airgun gurus on the planet. Be gentle.

[wolverine]

I used... FlexSeal Flex Tape.

Okay, but did you put it on under water? 

[Jshooter71]

I used... FlexSeal Flex Tape.

Okay, but did you put it on under water? 

Haaaaaaa! Haaa!

Seriously, I still haven’t soft bed any of mine yet. But, eventually I’m going to. When I do, I’m going to start with Octane Elite. Soft bed & trigger job.

[Fate]

I used... FlexSeal Flex Tape.

Okay, but did you put it on under water? 

No... but that's why I used the Flex Seal Tape. I figured the next time I want to use it as a spear gun I'd have no worries! 

[Fate]

Update to my earlier post re Flextape:

Forget the Flextape... even if you're going to use the gun underwater LOL.

The thick sticky glue on the tape extruded out all over the inside of the stock... and glued my action in so tightly I had to patiently pry it out over a couple minutes time. It came out OK, but now I have to get the stuff out and it's proving to be a long hard difficult job.

I've ordered 1/16" (1.5mm) neoprene foam tape which won't be here for a week but that's probably how long it'll take me to get the stock clean again. Yuk. Going to seal the inside wood while I'm waiting as well. Should be done anyway but I didn't "take the time" before rushing into this.

The missus has a beautiful tat of a butterfly on her forearm with the letters EHFR beneath it in script. It means: Everything Happens For a Reason. Amazing how often that is true.

[Fate]

After more than a week waiting on my neoprene tape order... during which I finished my trigger job, JB pasted and Bore Shined the barrel then recrowned it, I decided to go a different route. I was tired of waiting, for one thing. For another, I'd had time to think... mentally modeling what was really going on. So I acted on my theory. It's contrary to this thread and against conventional thinking... but I had nothing to lose, I'd already made a fool of myself once, once more wouldn't matter.

So....

I floated the entire action, which included a slight clearancing of the stock where the factory inletting was slightly off on the front... maybe half a mm, which let the barrel shroud band touch. Not good, and accounted for my horizontal stringing I had been getting.

The rear stock mount is set on a piece of rubber cut from a left over piece of garage door seal. It's compressible, 1/8" thick, and firm. Kinda like neoprene. Cut a strip that straddled the wood at the screw and up to 1/8" of the top on each side, and punched a hole in it to fit the stock's screw hole.

Next I cut a spherical segment off of a super ball, those things that are super springy and bounces with a high coefficient of restitution. The segment is as thick as the height of the front stock mount stud with a hole I punched out in the center to fit the stud. I put a rubber O-ring around the outside of the stock yellow rubber mount there and stuck the little dome of super ball over the stud flat-side down. Then I bolted the action into the stock very tightly front and rear.

It works amazingly well. Now when it's fired I don't lose the target because of the rifle jumping around. It vibrates still on target and I see where my shot hit.

The best thing is that after all that... it's shooting one hole groups now instead of shotgunning them. How's that for some heresy and bucking conventional wisdom. But to me it made sense. It follows Diana's original design, only enhanced. All major recoil is along the rifle axis with action vibrations dissipated without being transferred to the stock, especially at the front where it will cause the most POI disruption. Shot cycle is a short thump/pop and over with.

After a long hard uncertain struggle with this gun... I am one happy camper.

PS, I cancelled the neoprene tape order.