Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock



Author Topic: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock  (Read 29387 times - 1 votes) 
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Offline TimmyMac1

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Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« on: April 24, 2014, 09:02:17 PM »
How to Soft Bed Spring Piston / Gas Ram Pellet guns.  (by Mike Hancock)
Purpose: Floats spring tube metal on a thin, mushy layer of Neoprene up off of the stock wood.
Result: Reduces felt vibration, allows BENCH RESTING on firm sandbags which aids accuracy!

Get 1/8th-inch thick Neoprene from E-Bay- $4.95 includes shipping. Adhesive backed material.
It's the principal of floating metal off the wood.  Use a box cutter and straight edge to cut 3/8th wide strips.
Peel paper off sticky back of neoprene strips. Single edge safety razor really helps get paper started off sticky back.
Place strips in bedding channel about 1/16 up from drop-off edge.  It will mush down and fill the gap. 
Put Two full length strips in channel (one on each side) leaving a gap back at the trigger from half way between trigger pins to the back of inletting. Small pieces fill back end of inletting leaving gap for cross pin and cut out to allow room for trigger group.
Full SOFT BEDDING COMPLETE Now you need to install the action into the wood.
Use "C" clamp to get front stock screws down far enough to start since they are now sitting on 1/8" of  neoprene. Make sure you don't strip the screws. This is especially tricky when you have cups fitted. Start front stock screw holes first. Then do trigger guard screws. 
INSTRUCTIONS AFTER BEDDING 

1.  Tighten all screws tight
2.  Let sit overnight
3.  Day 2 -- Morning -- Tighten Again
4.  Day 2 -- afternoon -- Tighten Again -- shoot 20
5.  Day three -- Tighten again -- DONE! 
6.  Periodically test screw tightness.

YOU HAVE A SOFT BEDDED PELLET GUN THAT WILL SHOOT SOFTER, QUIETER, AND MORE ACCURATELY.

YOU CAN HARD BENCH-REST YOUR  SPRING PISTON AND GAS RAM GUNS NOW! 
Principal Works for any GUN.   

All guns have different stock inletting and cut-outs.  Just put Neoprene on all wood surfaces where spring tube metal contacts the stock wood.
YOU WANT TO FLOAT THE METAL ON VERY THIN LAYER OF NEOPRENE SO IT'S NOT TOUCHING WOOD ANY LONGER. 

Mike has done this to the following models with equal success on all. TX 200 / HW 97K / HW 77 / R-9 / R-7 / HW 50
Webley / Benjamin NP's / etc.  He supplied Mac1 with this information so we could share it with everyone.

If you would like a 7250KB Word file with Pictures I can send you what Mike sent me. Just send an email to mac1airgun@gmail.com and Put "Soft Bed" in the subject. Large file no dial ups. I would be glad to forward you the 97 word document complete with pictures Mike took when doing the process to an R1 Beeman. He illustrates specific things he did to other models as well.

I've shot Mikes guns and it is a very nice discharge characheristic. Dead calm without tuning and majic with a good tune.

I'm not convinced it will eliminate the need for a soft hold to achieve the ultimate spring gun accuracy but Mike is Convinced he can now rest any springer and shoot good groups. I'd say he is onto something. It'll cost you only $5 to find out. Chump change.

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Offline cooter472

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 10:56:08 PM »
Awesome Tim, you are always looking at and for innovation. Thank You
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Offline Austin E

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 12:40:12 AM »
Will give this a try with my R1 and report back soon.
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 04:20:52 AM »
so are we talking about using adhesive backed weather stripping similar to this ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-x-1-8-50-Closed-Cell-Neoprene-Weatherstrip-Foam-/390164532024?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad79e4b38

If so, it should be available at any home improvement store.
I may have to try this on both my RS2 and my D48
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Offline Fowlpursuit

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 09:25:35 AM »
Sounds like a legit idea however, wouldn't tightening the screws down as stated compress the neoprene so much that it would no longer offer the desired cushioning effect?
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Offline wilsonj1018

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 09:34:26 AM »
even with the screws tight, it would still provide a dampening effect, much softer than contact with bare wood.
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Offline cvasquez

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2014, 08:53:56 AM »
Just ordered my sheet. I thought the same thing - why not weather strip sized like 1/2" or 1" but maybe that width is crucial so I wont change a thing. Tim ,your the man!!!  Thanks
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Offline Fowlpursuit

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2014, 10:10:52 PM »
I'm really on board with this idea as I just minted a bi pod on my NPXL 1100. I've been lookin at the gun and I just cannot see how the neoprene will fit in there as there is no space at all.  And honestly I'm afraid once I start torquing the screws down my stock is gonna split because of the pressure. Am I overly paranoid ?
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Offline zmike

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 03:42:57 PM »
MIKE HANCOCK HERE:
When I say tighten screws I mean to normal "tight" not major "torque" down tight.  You will find that after the first "normal tighten," the next day the neoprene will have crushed down and you can get another 3/4th turn to get back to normal tight again.  The third and forth "tightens" you can get about 1/2 and then maybe 1/4 turn to "normal" tightness.  You WANT the spring tube to be able to vibrate on top of the neoprene a small amount or you might as well not do this and go back to being bedded directly on the wood.  Firm tight might be a better way to describe it.  I don't have a dog in this fight.  I make no money, I don't want to do other people guns for free or for profit, I just told Tim about it and let him shoot my HW 90 that was done this way. He liked the way it felt.
I've also done some of my buddies guns and they report what I describe.  It takes out the loud "THWACK" you feel in your cheek on the stock.  I can shoot off sandbags (front and rear) and not even touch the fore-stock.  I use my fore-stock hand to squeeze and manipulate the rear bag to get the cross hairs on target just like with my powder rifles.  And I shoot one ragged hole groups all day long at 20-30 yards with the right pellets.  (you can read my sign up profile to see how/why I even thought of trying this) 
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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 07:31:21 PM »
 Mike and Tim,

THANKS ! for sharing, This is just another fine example of why the members of the GTA are The BEST !
I just got back from my local Rubber and Packing supply with 12' in hand. Will be doing this to my RS2 Ram model, and my RWS D48.
 (Austin, I've got plenty for yours too ;D).

now where did I put those Allen Wrenches ?  ;)

I'm kind of curious as to if applying the Neoprene stripping just forward and aft of the front mounting bolts, (lets say 1" on both sides of each bolt), and then another 2 short strips at the rear trigger guard bolt might possibly do the same thing, and/or possibly work even better ?, as opposed to applying it to the entire length of the stock ?

 My thinking being, this would create even less contact area between spring tube and wood.
 HMmmmm,.... may just have to give it a try.

Your thoughts ?



« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 07:59:48 PM by tri-5-ron »
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Offline palonej

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2014, 08:03:17 PM »
I'm in!!!
Will try it on my 98 first!
Thanks Timmy and Mike!! Sounds like a great idea!!
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Offline TimmyMac1

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Question for Mike Hancock
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 02:00:33 PM »
Mike,
Have you taken one out of the stock yet that has been bedded? A good customer was asking that as soon as I told him about it. I had to say I have no clue if a release agent or talcum powder should be used to make sure you can get the two apart.
We do need to service these things so it is a good question. I sure like the way Mikes gun shot when I tried it. Thudlike.

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Offline BobbyHumphrey

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 12:29:28 PM »
I did this to my WFH [springer] and my Benji 1100. All I can say is wow! What a difference. The WFH has a wood butt that I added. I hated the plastic one because it was loud , too long , and didnt feel right. After adding the neopreme it was so much quieter and more accurate . Thank you for this wonderful idea. And yes it was a pain to get the 1100 stock back on. I used a c-clamp , patients , and it went on .
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Offline zmike

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 02:10:14 PM »
ATTENTION ALL HW 90 / Beeman RS 1 and 2 Owners. 

There is a bit of extra work involve in bedding these guns because of their large trigger box cut-out (for their re-settable trigger safety mechanism).   "IF" the large block trigger box is so tight it has to be almost forced down into the stock cut-out...
(1) you need to take a small jewelers file and relieve the cut-out front sides all around (just a little bit) so the box has some room to vibrate within the cut-out.  Otherwise you are just back to bedding against solid wood (as before) in this area and you'll still get the harsh felt recoil.
(2) You need to cut out two 3/4" wide rectangles of neoprene the exact length of the trigger box cut out and place one each side of the box (instead of just using a 3/8th wide piece like you do for other guns).   I made three attempts at bedding my HW 90 before I discovered this one worked.
WOW!  And this is the gun Tim shot that prompted him to ask me for my soft bed recipe.   I believe the extra wide piece of neoprene is needed here because the trigger cut-out is so wide you don't really have a bottom edge to offer support with just a normal 3/8th wide piece.  You need the extra softness up the sides of the spring tube to provide enough softness. I think I included a pic in my document I supplied to Tim.
Again -  good luck.
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Offline zmike

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2014, 02:35:00 PM »
TAKING OUT OF THE STOCK AND THEN REPLACING -- AFTER SOFT BEDDING.

YES YOU CAN.  NOTHING SPECIAL NEEDED AND THE NEOPRENE usually DOES NOT STICK TO THE METAL.  You can take out, work on the gun, then replace over the same bedding.  You my need to do the screw re-tighten a time or two as the neoprene will rebound up a bit.  And you may need to shoot a few to get the gun settled back into it's sweet spot.  But not nearly as much as for the original bed. 
Tim, if you recall, you changed out the pivot pin on my HW 90 the day I brought it down to show you those British screw-in pivot pins I brought. You knocked out the preened pin for me.  That's the day you first looked into my 90 stock and saw all the squashed neoprene bedding for the first time.   AT WORST, if a piece of bedding does stick to the metal, you can just replace the missing section and do the above re-tighten / shoot a few to re-settle and you'll be good to go again.   

A NOTE:  TO REMOVE the bedding: The neoprene comes off very easily, but sometimes leaves the paper thin piece of sticky back on the wood.  Just use a wood Popsicle stick to scrape it out.  It's much softer than any metal and doesn't damage your bedding. 

A THOUGHT:  I know neoprene deteriorates over time.  Not sure how long it will last before that happens and you'll need a re-do.  Mine have gone a year and a half now, no problems.   It's probably a good idea to take your guns out of the stock every couple years to check for unseen problems, rust, etc. and re-lube the pivot pins anyway.   
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Offline zmike

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 03:12:07 PM »
TO: 
 tri-5-ron

 RE:  Installing Bedding in front of and to the rear of the trigger guard screws rather than just down the sides.
My thinking being, this would create even less contact area between spring tube and wood.
 HMmmmm,.... may just have to give it a try.

Your thoughts ?

*********************************************
MIKE HANCOCK HERE: 

AND ALSO TX 200 Bedding

I "think" I tried it at the very start of this project and I couldn't get the accuracy I did with just going along the sides. 
BUT, you have to do it for the TX 200.  There's only about 3-4 inches of bedding surface in one of those.   The whole spring tube is floated the rest of the way out front.  FOR MY TX 200 I got the best results with 1/8th-inch --- "thick" -- neoprene placed in the normal fashion for the 4-inchs of bedding surface that's available ...then I used --"1/16th"-- thick neoprene directly in the bottom of that 4-inch space, in between the two outside 1/8th strips.  So YOU MAY BE RIGHT in your assumption.  I have NOT tried the 1/16" trick in the bottom where the stock screws go in other guns.  It may be "the ticket!'  I do believe 1/8th is too much though. 

This project owes it's conception to my boyhood hero, a gun writer named Jack O'Connor from Outdoor Life.  He wrote that if you put thin strips of business card under the fore of a powder rifle that's not shooting well, it might provide a bit of up-force on the BBL to settle it down.  And it's worked for me for years.  Then Sims Vibration Labs comes along with a whole line of products that mitigate vibration for archery gear and rifles.  Key word here is "vibration!"
It just thought it was worth a try to see if it would work with pellet guns.  And it has for me.  I haven't had the time to try:
(1) All the materials that my work even better than Neoprene
(2) All the methods, manner and placement for these materials
That's where you guys come in.  Please do your own experimenting.
My sincere hope and wish is that somebody out there (ONE OF YOU GUYS)...keeps experimenting and finds the ultimate fix. 
Good luck!




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Offline Gertrude

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 01:18:11 AM »
Thanks for the reply Mike,

Yes, I will do some experimenting to see what works best.
 Just wanted to toss the idea out there to see what you thought.
 I'm sure it can/will vary with each guns total contact area. It will be fun and interesting to see the effects of various bedding placement.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 01:19:53 AM by tri-5-ron »
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Offline Lightninrod

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2014, 09:33:06 AM »
Only wood stocks are mentioned. Would/should this neoprene bedding be needed with a synthetic stock such as the one on my Gamo Bone Collector?

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Offline TimmyMac1

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 08:53:38 AM »
Only wood stocks are mentioned. Would/should this neoprene bedding be needed with a synthetic stock such as the one on my Gamo Bone Collector?

Dan

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Re: Soft Bedding Spring guns by Mike Hancock
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 08:30:03 PM »
what about using sorbothane instead of neoprene? last I heard it was one of the best vibration dampeners...

I think Ill have to try that, but first, a question: what thickness do you think the neoprene is eventually compressed to?
I don't think sorbothane would compress as much as neoprene...

Last question:how would you recommend attaching the dampening material to the metal? (unfortunately sorbo doesn't come with adhesive)

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