How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank



Author Topic: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank  (Read 20079 times))

Offline nervoustrigger

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2018, 05:24:50 PM »
In inches, you want 0.625" OD, 0.3125" ID, 0.032" thick.
which in metric equates to 15.88mm OD, 7.94mm ID, 0.81mm thick

Closest match in the chart is the 16,0 8,2 0,9
Its 50% deflection rating is a pretty close match (157lbs vs 142lbs).
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 05:28:39 PM by nervoustrigger »
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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2018, 09:39:45 AM »
[quote ....

Slide check valves are made for CO2 pressures, I have destroyed quite a few even at 1200 psi.... The O-ring blows out....

Bob
[/quote]
 I recently purchased a coiled hose fill setup with side check, rated @ 4500 PSI, I only run it at 3000  with no issues as of yet.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2018, 11:15:32 AM »
Nice to know they are now available for HPA.... a link to your source would be helpful....

Bob
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Offline porkchopexpr3ss

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2018, 12:54:25 PM »
if youre quick in a twisting motion it doesnt seem to eat the oring. i tried to solder a 28g needle into the hole it has to jump but the aluminum sucked up all the heat and was too lazy to break out the torch.  ended up getting the ez fill and stop playin around. wasnt so easy, its leaking out the hose end.........
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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2018, 09:40:10 PM »
Nice to know they are now available for HPA.... a link to your source would be helpful....

Bob
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EIVBYTC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2018, 11:31:43 PM »
Unless I misunderstand that Ad.... that slide check is intended for a Paintball marker, which would be fed from a regulator set to roughly CO2 pressures.... and certainly protected with a 1.8K burst disc on the output side.... as you would always use on a Paintball gun.... The "system" pressure is 3000 or 4500 psi.... but the working pressure would normally be about 850 psi.... JMO, and if you are using one at 3000 psi, I'm glad it's working for you....

Bob
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Offline NitroBobby

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2018, 11:20:11 AM »
Unless I misunderstand that Ad.... that slide check is intended for a Paintball marker, which would be fed from a regulator set to roughly CO2 pressures.... and certainly protected with a 1.8K burst disc on the output side.... as you would always use on a Paintball gun.... The "system" pressure is 3000 or 4500 psi.... but the working pressure would normally be about 850 psi.... JMO, and if you are using one at 3000 psi, I'm glad it's working for you....

Bob

that's correct Bob.

I used a similar hose when I played PB. the hose in the ad should only be subjected to the PB reg pressure of about 800-850psi max. anything higher and you will very likely see a catastrophic hose failure.

Also, there's no bleeder valve. must be a PITA to disconnect after filling.

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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2018, 02:45:01 PM »
I think most slide-checks are "self-bleeding", at least the ones I had were.... That was the problem, when the vent hole slid past the O-ring it blew out at much over about 1100 psi.... I gave up on them for that reason.... I had a coil-hose blow at 3000 psi, even though it was rated at that (stamped right on the side)…. scared the …. out of me....

Bob
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Offline ChapoChoo

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2018, 03:17:27 PM »
I think most slide-checks are "self-bleeding", at least the ones I had were.... That was the problem, when the vent hole slid past the O-ring it blew out at much over about 1100 psi.... I gave up on them for that reason.... I had a coil-hose blow at 3000 psi, even though it was rated at that (stamped right on the side)…. scared the …. out of me....

Bob

If these slide checks aren't reliable at the 1200-1500 psi that people are going to be using them at to adjust the Ninja reg, what's the best way to measure the reg output?
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2018, 05:11:52 PM »
I have never used one, but Tim @ Mac1 Airguns sells this unit, with a slide check, and says it is good to 2000 psi....

http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/product-p/reoute.htm

You do need some way to bleed off the pressure downstream of the regulator, I made a bleed valve like this....



There is a Foster on the end of the flex hose where I attach my gauge.... I also use a "tiny" tank so that I don't waste air when testing.... You can see it in the middle of this photo with the regulator attached....



Bob

« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 12:30:59 PM by rsterne »
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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2018, 09:22:44 AM »
 I was thinking I may be getting by due to the fact I am using it on a retrofitted air force pistol bottle. By the time I top off the pressure is much lower than 3000.
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Offline falvesjr

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2018, 06:14:51 PM »
Bob,

I would love to get a "tiny" air tank like you use. Can you tell me where you got it? I assume it will hold 3000psi?

Thanks,
Fernando

I also use a "tiny" tank so that I don't waste air when testing.... You can see it in the middle of this photo with the regulator attached....



Bob
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2018, 06:28:28 PM »
I made it.... a piece of 1" diam. CRS drilled and tapped 5/8"-18NF that the regulator can thread into.... with a small recess for the O-ring to fit into and seal....

Bob
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 07:16:43 PM by rsterne »
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1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline falvesjr

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2018, 07:16:46 PM »
Awesome! Sent you a PM.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2018, 07:18:21 PM »
FYI, I don't make parts or guns for anyone else.... no time....

Bob
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Offline nervoustrigger

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2018, 07:42:17 PM »
Just to give my perspective, it’s fairly easy to make one with simple tools.  In other words, it doesn’t require a mill or lathe.  I used a rectangular block of aluminum.  The drilling and tapping is straightforward.  The only thing that took some creativity was making a groove for the O-ring.  I managed to use a carbide router bit (an ogee profile, if memory serves).  It has a removable ball bearing guide that I swapped out temporarily for a stack of washers so it would cut a recess just the right diameter to capture the O-ring on the underside of the regulator body.  In other words, the original ball bearing is sized so the bit will cut a narrow shoulder.  It needed to be somewhat wider to accept the O-ring so I improvised a smaller diameter bearing out of a stack of  washers so it would plow a wider groove.  It worked beautifully.  You wouldn’t know it wasn’t made on a CNC mill if I didn’t tell you.
 
If you were to do something similar, the best order of operations is:
1.       Drill
2.       Cut the O-ring groove
3.       Tap

Offline falvesjr

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2018, 10:50:56 PM »
So, how long are your tanks? How deep did you drill, and how deep did you tap? Also, how deep/wide does the O-ring groove need to be?

Thanks for the tips, guys!
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2018, 12:24:49 AM »
Copy the O-ring groove from a tank the regulator fits.... You only need to drill and tap a bit deeper than the threaded shank of the regulator.... I drilled in about 3", but if I were making another one would only drill in about 2" and then tap deep enough that the regulator would screw in easily by hand all the way without any O-ring in place.... You don't need any "volume" to test a regulator, all you are doing is sealing the bottom of the regulator.... Make sure the wall thickness of the "tiny tank" is enough for it to withstand 11,000 psi (for a 3000 psi reg.) or 16,000 psi (for a 4,500 psi one)…. So that you have at least a 3.5:1 safety margin....

Bob
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Offline cgish

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2018, 12:54:15 AM »
Thank you for this thread and the information in it.

I used this information to reset the output pressure on a ninja hpa tank. It came from the factory at just over 700 psi out of the regulator. This was with a spring and three shims.

Replacing the spring with a belleville stack yielded the following pressures:

) = .022
) = .032
| = Shims that came with the Ninja regulator
) ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) (  ( |   = 1100 PSI
) ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) (  ( | |  = 1300 PSI
) ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) (  ( | | | = 1500 PSI


This is close to Bob's chart on page 1 (if I am reading it correctly). It is a little higher, but in line with the progressions he charted.

Make sure the wall thickness of the "tiny tank" is enough for it to withstand 11,000 psi (for a 3000 psi reg.) or 16,000 psi (for a 4,500 psi one)…. So that you have at least a 3.5:1 safety margin....

I picked up one of the lathes out of the $368 lathe thread, and am liking the look of the tiny tank. It looks like a good project to play with. A section of cold rolled steel bar would allow me to mess up a few times without it being too expensive.

So, if I understand this 3.5:1 safety margin (thinking about Bob's tiny tank), one would need to make sure the walls of the tank are thick enough to stand 16,000 psi. (4500 x 3.5 = 15750, rounded up to 16,000)

How does one go about finding this information? I assume there are base figures from the manufacture that give a pressure rating per x of thickness. I cannot seem to figure out the correct search query either here or on Google to find this information. I assume it is because I am missing a specialized term (or terms) to search for. (or maybe I am missing something painfully obvious?)

If someone has a direct answer, that is great, but I would like to understand enough to hunt down my own answers.

My background is carpentry and farming. Metal work (other than rough welding) is all new to me.

So, educational sites? Proper search terms? Threads here on GTA to read?

Thank You,
Cody
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Offline rsterne

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Re: How to change output pressure on a regulator ninja tank
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2018, 05:14:34 PM »
Use Barlow's formula to determine burst pressure.... Here is a calculator....

http://www.worldwidepipe.com/barlows-formula.html

Enter the OD (1") and the wall thickness (for a 5/8" thread use that for the ID, so use 0.187" (don't enter the pressure, you want to calculate that).... You can use either the yield strength (point to where it stretches) or the tensile strength (where it ruptures) of the material used for the Allowable Stress.... Most CRS round bar is 1018 grade, but you can ask when you buy it.... Here are the specs. for 1018....

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6115

Let's use the yield strength to be conservative, which is 53,700 psi.... Enter those 3 numbers in the calculator, and you get 20,083 psi for the maximum pressure.... That is well above the 16,000 needed, so as long as you use 1018 with a 1" OD, you can be comfortable with the hoop strength of the tubing wall.... Leave the end (beyond the point of the drilled hole) at least twice that thick (3/8") and you should be OK for strength.... providing the threads are within allowable specs (if you drill the right size, and use a good tap, they should be fine)….

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
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Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

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