HW 35 with lots of rust. What to do?

[airnutz]

Yes Smackey54, The HW's are different than Dianas.  I only meant to reiterate "safety first".

I had at first trouble with centering the spring mechanism as it would definitely drift (turn) while compressing or de-compressing (removal) of the spring.  I chose to grind the end of the compressing piece to exactly fit the counterpart of the spring holder.  This saved from the spring wanting to travel and move while compressing.

[airnutz]

Redharris, from my own very recent personal experience, you may have much pleasure and satisfaction with the following procedures;
1.) I removed the old Blueing and Rust with "Tetra-Gun Blue and Rust Remover".
2.) Sanding with various metal grit paper,  then the finest steel wool.
3.) High shine polishing with brushes on a bench lathe and steel polishing compound so that the surface shines almost like chrome.
4.) Follow procedures with one of the various "cold bluing" products available.

Sir, you will see that the old piece will shine again,  and from 2 feet look like new.  I feel a worthy attempt and a decent attempt to keep an old piece "up and running".  If I might add, this is also quite a favourable experience!

Greetings.

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

 A couple of caveats concerning cold blues--------

Different steels react differently to various cold blues. I've recently had tremendous luck using Brownell's Oxpho Blue on old Crosmans. But it wasn't equally effective on the barrel of an HW30 where it had rusted from hand acids from cocking it many thousands of times. Acceptable but not superior as in the case of the Crosmans.

 Also-----

A high polish can prevent cold blues being fully effective----again depending on the steel and the blue formula. In case you encounter that phenomena you can try different blues as well as varied surface finishes.       Tom

[airnutz]

Excellent info Tom!

I know that HW's react VERY well with for instance the Ballistol Bluing Agent.

I would even say, from the situation at hand, even a lesser brand would do the old rusty gun well.  Interesting though, the info of metal differences from brand to brand.

My info is, with German Steel and re-bluing, a High Shine, then warmed metal will provide an acceptable new blue-black finish.

Once again though, anything would be better than what Redharris has shown.

Greetings.

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

"My info is, with German Steel and re-bluing, a High Shine, then warmed metal will provide an acceptable new blue-black finish."
****************************************************
Not unlike my own methods. I normally polish to the chrome like standard you mention then heat the metal with a propane torch to 'sweat' out oil in the pores followed by a quick wipe-down with a clean, lint-free cloth containing mineral spirits. I repeat the sweating as many times as I deem needed and after the final wipe down with 90% alcohol I follow it QUICKLY with the cold blue to avoid the almost instantaneous film of rust that will form on totally oil-free steel. I follow that with a quick polish with 4/0 steel wool or white Scotch-brite and more coats of blue and polish until I see no further improvement. If the shape of the part being blued lends itself to it I do all of that in the lathe while the part turns on the low speed setting. FWIW---the white Scotch-brite makes a good application pad for the bluing.
 Surprisingly good results can be attained if the bluing formula and steel are compatible.    Tom

[airnutz]

Thanks Tom!

What is a "white Scotch-brite" pad?  We don't have this stuff over here, but perhaps something similar.

Could you suggest anything?

Thanks.

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Thanks Tom!

What is a "white Scotch-brite" pad?  We don't have this stuff over here, but perhaps something similar.

Could you suggest anything?

Thanks.

 Hmmmm----it's an abrasive pad by 3M products that is a random matrix material impregnated with an abrasive substance. The most common form is the 'green' found in the kitchen accessories dept. of the big box stores where it is sold as a scrubbing/polishing pad for kitchen utensils. It seems particularly suited to reviving the surface finish of stainless steel vessels.

 It is available in 4 abrasive levels IME. The red/brown grade is the functional equivalent of jewelers rouge. Now is where I always confuse myself--I can't keep the abrasive properties of the green & gray pads firmly fixed in my mind, but the white is the least abrasive by a rather wide margin---in effect it is a polishing medium. They are used in a wide spectrum ranging from metal polishing to musical instruments to gun stocks. They can be substituted for various grades of steel wool and are in many cases superior in use and results.
 Frankly I can no longer even imagine trying to cope with rifle revival tasks without them!  HTH, Tom

[Smackey54]

I believe the Scotch Brite pads are described as follows:
Green:     Course Grade
Maroon:   Medium Grade
White:     Light Duty Grade
Gray:      Ultra-fine Grade

[airnutz]

OK guys, gotcha.

We do have stuff like this, and I agree.

PS:  I used the stuff once on  the wife's Tea Pot.  Got real clean by the way, shined like new.  You should of heard her cuss for messing up her favorite Tea Pot!  I had to buy a new expensive one, and I was no longer allowed to touch anything in the kitchen.  She said it will take ages for the Tea to taste good again.

[Redharris]

I just received my F1 Shooting Chrony in the mail last night and put it to use this morning.
My HW 35 is shooting @ an avg of 542.7 fps....Low@ 518,,,High@ 563 fps.
Now I have a Baseline to see Before and After results of cleaning/tuning/repair (if necessary).
Here are the actual results...
1.)  518 fps
2.)  526
3.)  550
4.)  542
5.)  540
6.)  563
7.)  556
8.)  558
9.)  553
10.) 521

[Brutuz]

I fixed a broken 35 for a friend last summer, am not at home so can't check performance at the moment.

If you can't get spares you could order in Germany http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportwaffen-schneider.de%2Fproducts_new.php&langpair=de|en a trustworthy company where I bought airgun parts many times in the past (my location is the Netherlands)

A while ago I got a dumpster find from my uncle, brand doesn's matter, but it was rusty too.

Sprayed Balistol on the action, put it in a plastic bag overnight, wiped off most of the rust next day, repeated the procedure and after that used this trick I read about on a Dutch ag board:

I used a coin (old Dutch "cent") to rubb the action down and without re-bluing it looks fair again. Coin made of a brass like alloy that's bright and shiney new but turns dark brown after a while.

Maybe this helps.

Edit: maybe better to click here http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/index.php/cPath/40_769_1377_1361 and click the translate button right top afterwards.

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

You should of heard her cuss for messing up her favorite Tea Pot!

Er---I'll take a pass on that experience!
My first wife was German.;o)

[airnutz]

You should of heard her cuss for messing up her favorite Tea Pot!

Er---I'll take a pass on that experience!
My first wife was German.;o)

I smile big time now!
I am the German....my wife was an Ohio girl.  Tough as nails.  I miss her!

[airnutz]

@Redharris, your numbers appear to me to be fairly normal for a standard air gun for German Specs.

I would assume the internals are OK.  Still not a bad idea to check things out inside and lubricate to make sure. 

I am interested in hearing what your plans are for the outside surface???

This is the reason for your post, correct?

Here is a pic from what my similar, old Diana 35 turned out after rust removal and polishing.

Yours may look similar, after some work.

[Redharris]

@  Airnutz.....
I plan to tear this gun down and inspect/fix/replace as necessary. There is enough rust on the Outside, that I suspect there may be rust on the Inside too.
I wanted to Chrony the gun to see how it was working, before tearing into it. Now that I have done That,,,,I need to tear this thing down and inspect it. I also need to get my hands on some Balistol (I will try that first) to help with cleaning and rust removal. I will also have to find a source for seals (I am using Hardware Store O-rings for the Barrel Seal at the moment ). I may be able to make my own leather Pump Seal,,,,if I cannot buy one somewhere.

Finally, after I accomplish all of the above and the rifle shoots like it should, I will do my best to refinish the Steel portions of the gun, and make it beautiful again......

[Redharris]

I fixed a broken 35 for a friend last summer, am not at home so can't check performance at the moment.

If you can't get spares you could order in Germany http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportwaffen-schneider.de%2Fproducts_new.php&langpair=de|en a trustworthy company where I bought airgun parts many times in the past (my location is the Netherlands)

A while ago I got a dumpster find from my uncle, brand doesn's matter, but it was rusty too.

Sprayed Balistol on the action, put it in a plastic bag overnight, wiped off most of the rust next day, repeated the procedure and after that used this trick I read about on a Dutch ag board:

I used a coin (old Dutch "cent") to rubb the action down and without re-bluing it looks fair again. Coin made of a brass like alloy that's bright and shiney new but turns dark brown after a while.

Maybe this helps.

Edit: maybe better to click here http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/index.php/cPath/40_769_1377_1361 and click the translate button right top afterwards.

Thanks Brutuz.......Thats a useful Link.
I still have much research to do regarding parts, (What parts I need, where I might GET them, etc....) If I can't find local (USA) distributors, then I may have to go to the Source in Germany...

[Smackey54]

@  Airnutz.....
I plan to tear this gun down and inspect/fix/replace as necessary. There is enough rust on the Outside, that I suspect there may be rust on the Inside too.
I wanted to Chrony the gun to see how it was working, before tearing into it. Now that I have done That,,,,I need to tear this thing down and inspect it. I also need to get my hands on some Balistol (I will try that first) to help with cleaning and rust removal. I will also have to find a source for seals (I am using Hardware Store O-rings for the Barrel Seal at the moment ). I may be able to make my own leather Pump Seal,,,,if I cannot buy one somewhere.

Finally, after I accomplish all of the above and the rifle shoots like it should, I will do my best to refinish the Steel portions of the gun, and make it beautiful again......

ARH (http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251488.htm) has synthetic breech seals, and tune kits for the HW35. They are very good. Pyramid Ayr also has springs, and delrin rear spring guides.  As I rebuilt the one I had, I made a leather breech seal using leather punches. If you have a leather piston seal, I sent you instructions on how to make one for your HW35. If you have a cobbler near you, you can find scraps of leather to use. If not, an old leather belt will also work.

Mark

[airnutz]

Redharris, the parts for the gun will be no problem.  Guaranteed.  Also, there is probably a coat of some kind of lubricant on the inside of the tube, I will almost bet rust is not a problem in there.

I will soon post pics to encourage you on achieving your goal.  I just completed my re-bluing project and I cannot believe the results!

The parts are readily available, go in there and replace them for a small amount of cash, and I hope for you lots of satisfaction.

[airnutz]

@  Airnutz.....
Finally, after I accomplish all of the above and the rifle shoots like it should, I will do my best to refinish the Steel portions of the gun, and make it beautiful again......

Redharris, just for some info, here are a few pics of what you may expect when you get to it.

Greetings.

[TOM aka critter99]

http://www.evaporust.com/

I swear by this stuff I have used it to soak a totally siezed old two stroke engine till it freed up.  Used that motor to do holes for an entire fenceline and it still runs today.

It will remove the rust and the bluing as well I think.  I would look for a local gunsmith that does hot bluing and when the tanks heated for another job they might reblue the action for a decent price with you doing all the polish and prep work.  The pits will be a problem no matter how you go.