HW 35 with lots of rust. What to do?

[Redharris]

Hi Everyone.... I am new to the Forum and only recently got into the airgun hobby with any seriousness.
Long story short. A friend of mine handed over an HW 35 that was owned and loved by his Father who had passed away a couple years ago. The rifle was then stored in the Garage and got Rusty . He Hopes I might be able to get it working.

The rifle works, but the velocity is low. I'm guessing that the seals are toast. The barrel LOOKS ok. Its a bit Dusty but I see no pitting or rust inside the barrel.

I THINK this is a pretty old gun,,,,,1970's, and maybe even older.
Are parts available for this rifle?
Is there a Manual with I.P.B  available?
Is this gun Salvageable?
Here are some pics.

[lizzie]

The best place to look for parts is probably Gunspares in the UK. They may be a little slow in getting back to you via email, but I have found them to be very helpful. http://www.gunspares.co.uk/

I know I've seen a couple of members here suggest using some Ballistol on the metal parts to help get rid of the rust. Iirc, they suggest spraying it on, letting it sit for awhile, wipe down, and repeat.

That should be a great gun if you can get it restored back to good working condition. Sounds like a fun project to me.

[airnutz]

Hello Redharris.

Parts for this wonderful gun are readily available. 

The rust is unfortunate, but can be removed with chemicals.  It appears however, that the rust has become "pits" (I think this is the terminology).  Hence, it appears to have eaten it's way somewhat into the metall.  This cannot be made pristine.

You may however, remove the rust, sand the metal smoother (many tips online) and re-blue.  The pits will for the most part still be visible, but the metal will look altogether at a glance as if the gun is up-kept.

I would, if you don't mind my opinion, do this;  Keep the gun, repair it, and keep your Grandfather in the best of memories.  He apparently had good taste, and a true sense of quality.

My old Diana 35 was purchased by my Grandfather in 1954,  I am refinishing it and it still shoots like a champ.

Greetings.

[Smackey54]

It's a complete Wreck! Send it to me and I will melt it down and make something useful out of it!
Just kidding. They are very easy to work on. I have an article that someone in England wrote on tuning the gun. I also have instructions on making a leather piston seal (if it has not been upgraded). If you are interested, I can send those to you. Personally, I prefer the leather seal. Very consistent...and replacing it with synthetic will require an adapter. Springs and rear spring guides are available through PA (look under Beeman parts), and also ARH. Jim even has a drop in tune kit...and the adapters. The record trigger is very nice. If you can get it to shoot about 740-750 fps with CPHPs, you will have about all she can give.
Is the stock beech or walnut?
You can also find the front globe sights and the inserts for it.

[Redharris]

Thank you all for the advice. I do indeed intend to restore this gun as best I can. It looks like it will be a fun Project and a good Test of my skills.
What I need most at the present time is to learn how to disassemble the gun in a safe manner, so that I can evaluate any wear/damage. I have searched You Tube for disassembly videos, but have found nothing for the HW35. This gun is different from all the Springers I have seen, in that the Spring is not removed from the Rear of the receiver tube. It LOOKS like the spring is removed from the Front of the receiver, after the barrel and hinge assembly is removed. Not Sure if I need a Spring Compessor,,, and I dont want to find out the hard way, and have the Spring shoot out and put a hole in my wall  .......

I am mechanically inclined and good with Tools, but I am in-experienced with air guns. I have a couple Crosman Pistols (1377 and 2240) that I have worked on and modded, but that is about the extent of my air gun knowledge......I will appreciate all the help I can get!!!

@ Smackey......I would very much appreciate you sending me that Tuning Article and instructions on how to make a leather seal. Would you be sending the Articles via E-Mail or do you need my postal address?.....I do not know how to tell the difference between Beech and Walnut, so I'm not sure what the stock is, lol.

I googled  "Balistol" and found it to be a lube/cleaner. It looks like it will not attack the Blueing, but I am not sure if it will remove my rust...... I know that "Naval Jelly" will remove the rust, but it also completely removes the Blueing, and leaves the steel bare. If I use Naval jelly,,,,,It would be best to refinish the gun immediately to stop any new rust from forming.

[lizzie]

This link may be helpful to you.

http://fuzzylimey.net/oddsnends/sprguntune.html

[Smackey54]

The link Lizzie gave you is very good, but with the 35, you don't even need a spring compressor. I will forward you what I have. I think that Lizzie might also have those articles.

[dwk54rak]

I am a huge fan of Balistol. I have worked with some very rusty old 22 rim fires and it does a very good job. It will not of course remove pitting, but it will hide the heck out of it. Try it on all your guns and you may be surprised that the Anchutz you have had for 30 years has a light film of rust on it. Mine did. as mentioned above put a light coat on, let is sit while you have a cup of coffee. then start rubbing, with an old towel or cotton something. Repeat until satisfied.
Darrell   

[Smackey54]

@ Smackey......I would very much appreciate you sending me that Tuning Article and instructions on how to make a leather seal. Would you be sending the Articles via E-Mail or do you need my postal address?.....I do not know how to tell the difference between Beech and Walnut, so I'm not sure what the stock is, lol.

@ Smackey......I would very much appreciate you sending me that Tuning Article and instructions on how to make a leather seal. Would you be sending the Articles via E-Mail or do you need my postal address?.....I do not know how to tell the difference between Beech and Walnut, so I'm not sure what the stock is, lol.

This link will show you some pictures of my hw35 with a walnut stock.....just for reference

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,24280.msg219473.html#msg219473

Also send me a PM with your email address, and I will send you the articles...and how to.

Mark

[Redharris]

Thanks Lizzie.....That is Good info and will help me out a lot.

@ dwk54rak.....I will get Balistol and give it a shot...

@ Smackey PM sent....I looked at those links. The Stock on my gun does not have the beautiful wide grain, like in those pictures. I am thinking that my stock might be Beech.

I got a chance to work on the rifle a bit at work during Breaks ......
The trigger mechanism was intermittent. Sometimes the gun would not fire after cocking. Sometimes it would fire at unexpectedly, which is a Scary situation... I found the trigger mechanism contaminated with a lot of old, dried, hardened grease. It was causing the trigger to Stick. I cleaned it out with an orangewood stick, some Breakfree, and some Remington Cleaner/Lube spray. Trigger works nicely now...... I also dug out the old, Petrified Barrel seal and replace it with a couple O-Rings I had laying around my workspace. Cleaned the barrel a bit and applied a small amount of oil to the rifling. The rifle shoots reliably now with some fair amount of velocity......It Buries a pellet a couple mm into a 2x4 at about 6 feet distance. I dont own a chrony yet, but I can tell the velocity is better than my Crosman 177 pistol at 10 pumps (around 500fps), because the rifle sinks its pellets  deeper into the board than my pistol does......The rifle is missing its front sight, so I cant hit the Broad Side of a Barn even approaching 5 meters. Gotta find a front sight for this thing,,,,,or mount a Scope on it,,,,before I know  how its accuracy is.....

[airnutz]

Yeah, that Ballistol stuff is amazing.  Did you know it is not even petroleum based?  You can even drink the stuff.  Really.  It was developed real early 1900's, and was readily known for it's medicinal household remedies.

Yep.  Grandma used it for hemorrhoids.  I even heard once, since Hitler was abstinent,  he would even take a swig now and then. Ole Aunt Eva would get irritated though....probably why she was not around much.   

It does cover up rust though.  Amazing.

PS:  You really can drink the stuff.

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

"This gun is different from all the Springers I have seen, in that the Spring is not removed from the Rear of the receiver tube. It LOOKS like the spring is removed from the Front of the receiver, after the barrel and hinge assembly is removed. Not Sure if I need a Spring Compessor,,,"
**********************************************************
Go to

<http://www.gunspares.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=24562&cat=HW35>

Run your cursor over the image to enlarge part # BE002. That is the breech plug which is threaded into the extreme rear of the compression tube. Even tho they are so finely machined and matched to almost become invisible the junction is clearly visible in your 5th & final pic in the opening post.

NEVER try to work on ANY spring powered gun without benefit of a spring compressor!! It is beyond 'common sense'. Yes---there are some guns that can be worked on without but to learn which ones they are a compressor is mandatory----unless you're ready to test your new health care benefits under Obamacare.

 Get the Ballistol and never look back!

 And if your friend is suffering great guilt for allowing his Father's rifle to get to this sorry state I'll be happy to relieve him of his load of guilt for $50.          Tom

[Redharris]

Tom......
 You are Right!......
I looked VERY closely at the base of the end cap and I can BARELY see a seem, even with my 10x eye loupe. It is mostly obscured by rust. I am probably going to have to soak it in penetrate to loosen it up for removal. The articles that Smackey e-mailed me show the same Illustrated Parts List and step by step instructions for disassembly. (Thanks for those Documents Smackey  )

 I have spoken to many folks about disassembling this gun. Some say I need a Spring Compressor, some say I dont for this Particular gun. Others say I MAY need one, because the gun MAY have been modified, and who knows whats inside. In any case, I will take your advice and build myself a spring compressor....Better Safe than Sorry, especially since this is  a first time experience for me.....

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

"It is mostly obscured by rust. I am probably going to have to soak it in penetrate to loosen it up for removal."

 The Ballistol will serve well for that purpose and loosen the rust as well. The main ingredient of Ballistol is mineral oil----which is why it can be ingested safely. (NOT by me!) That is why it is safe to use on the ENTIRE gun including leather goods, stock finish and rubber and plastic. While I have for decades maintained a stock of specialized lubes conveniently to hand in fine-tip dispenser bottles I most often reach for the Ballistol.

 Before you break the gun down you should be aware that it may not be necessary at all. Leather piston seals can often be rehabilitated in situ. The 1st step is always establishing a base line. By whatever means necessary get it chronied to find out how it's shooting. IIRC a healthy leather-sealed HW-35 should be in the 650-700 bracket. (google that---don't trust MY memory!) If it's currently shooting above 550 there's a very good chance that PROPERLY lubing the piston seal will revive it to past glory. Doing so is a process.

 Acquire some 100% silicone oil. Beeman & RWS used to list it but I'm not current on their product lines. Any good fishing tackle shop should stock it as reel oil. Model shops have it under guise of model car shock absorber oil and most motorcycle shops will stock it in a fork oil. IOW it's not exactly hard to find!
 At this point a bottle with a precise dispenser tip is a distinct advantage.
 Break the barrel joint lightly and cast your eye on the very front of the compression tube where you will see a small hole (@ .125" in diameter) that serves as a duct to direct the high pressure air from the compression chamber into the barrel immediately behind the pellet. This simple hole is the 'transfer port'---because that is its' function---to transfer the high pressure air into the barrel to drive the pellet. (BTW---don't be offended if I seem to be over-simplifying---there may be many not so astute that will benefit from it!)

 Holding the barrel partly broken open use your dispenser tip bottle to introduce 3-4 droplets of the 100% silicone oil into the transfer port. Stop and allow it to drain into the compression chamber. Close the barrel/breech. Set the rifle---muzzle up---in a corner in a warm place. Go away and leave it for a few hours while you paint the bathroom, mow and edge or make a beer run. Whichever will earn the most points from SWMBO. When you've 'earned your stripes' or can no longer stand it pick up the rifle and ---still maintaining it vertically---distribute the silicone onto the piston seal by cranking the barrel back & forth several times WITHOUT going too far and actually setting the sear.
On a very old and dry gun a repetition of the process a time or two may be advantageous but only the Chrony will tell you if you're making progress. If nothing is gained then a full tear-down becomes warranted.   HTH, Tom

[lizzie]

LOL airnutz!

[Smackey54]

For Silicone oil, try some "shock" oil from your local hobby store. The oil is pure silicone and comes in various weights. Try the 20 or 30 wt. Will cost $3-$4 for 2 ounces, which should last you a long time.

[Redharris]

Good to know........A Chronny is next on my LIST of "things to buy."
Also....I'm a Remote Control Hobbyist, so I have all sorts of Silicone oil laying around......

Suppose my seal is lubricated with organic (vegetable?) oil.
Can I assume that mixing oil types will not Bugger up the works?

[Smackey54]

Good to know........A Chronny is next on my LIST of "things to buy."
Also....I'm a Remote Control Hobbyist, so I have all sorts of Silicone oil laying around......

Suppose my seal is lubricated with organic (vegetable?) oil.
Can I assume that mixing oil types will not Bugger up the works?

If someone lubed the Seal with vegetable oil, they should be shot (with something bigger than an air rifle)...with the size of the compression chamber and the leather seal, it is even recommended that you treat it with either a mixture of 30 weight (non-detergent) motor oil and neatsfoot oil, or silicone and neatsfoot oil.

As for the spring compressor, it is very difficult to use a spring compressor on that rifle, as the rear of the reciever and trigger block screw out...and you may have to use a "persuader" to break it loose (as mentioned in the article I sent you). I followed the directions in the article to tear mine down and replace the rear spring guide and tune/lube the gun. The leather seal was in great shape, but the "grease" on the spring had started to stiffen.

[airnutz]

OK Redharris, here is the real scoop;

Firstly, the old deep rust will not disappear, regardless of the method applied.  Pits remain.
Secondly, the old leather breech seal can be made like new.
Thirdly, use a Spring Compressor when you fumble with springs. Period!

I have removed the blueing of my vintage 1954 Diana 35 and polished the metal so that it shines like chrome.  The metal was lightly rusted.  All gone now.  I will soon re- blue the metall.

Leather breech seals should be removed and soaked in motor oil for 24 hours, re-inserted with a very thin (0.2mm) metall shim first, then the leather O-Ring.  You may see that the seal has swollen and will re-seal nicely.  The gun will perform nicely again.

The piston seal will need to be replaced.  This is mandatory.

The end effect will be;

1). A wonderful Air Rifle with good punch and accuracy that will last another 30 years.
2.) An almost (from 2 feet visibility) perfect metall blue finish. Small pits will become invisible.
3.) Fun and pride in achieving the above.

[Smackey54]

"Thirdly, use a Spring Compressor when you fumble with springs. Period!"

You can use a spring compressor but.....and I mean but....you will have severe difficulty backing out the threaded end plug and trigger block, AND keeping the spring compressor centered, unless you build one or buy one like the one shown in the attachment that Lizzie posted. It is NOT held in by pins, but by threads. The spring comes out about 2 inches when the threads let go.

FOLLOW the instructions in the article I sent you, Red...and you will have no problems.
Mark