Hatsan Sniper Long

[Racing]

Ah,yes. The Hatsan barrel lottery. Or?
Some might remember that i asked about this puff a while back and all said i took the bait. These are on special order only around here, so took a while to get it.
The Sniper Long (for a friggin name btw) is based on the Factor and the Factor, well the early ones at least leaves some to be desired. Iīve had them in the door to the letter falling apart with use, with a barrel machined from the wrong end and what not.
NOT ideal.
It was said though that Hatsan "got their *hit together" with the Sniper Long why i thought.. sure.



Those in it for a long gun, here ya go. N then some. Barrel is on a measured 760mm.

In many ways i guess this one could be put up for comparsion vs the Rex Meta Premium. The latter then on a 700mm barrel, and let me be blunt and to the point...
The Meta takes a few mods to get there. Read - it needs to be ported to be all it can be. That done though the Meta is IMO a formidable pcp by any measure, one that iīd put against my M3 any day of the week.
In short, the Sniper Long reaches for it butīll have to contend with the tier below. However.. plz read along.



A neat little feature of these units is that the sport like rubber feet to cover the lower rails when these are not in use. Kinda neat, provides traction as well as coverage for when you toss the unit up on various supports.



Ah. The barrel. Itīs been claimed that these, on the more expensive models here in Europe, are by Lothar Walter. As to the truth of that no idea, but suffice it to say that this time someone at least took the light of day n TRIED hand it a muzzle crown.
Sorry to say... dull tooling, wrong speeds and what have you why that crown is full of machining chatter. Simple enough to remedy on the lathe, and of course i did.

Now.
Just as the Meta Premium the Sniper Long.. Well, the Hatsan sports a diffusor aīla the FX which we KNOW to handle the goods. Not torqued down though and as i did the shroud assy turned out to be a rather specific 8,5mm to long.
If you take a look at the pictures the actual shroud comes to an end approx at the end of the plenum assy, and from thereon in vs the reciever thereīs a piece of tubing for looks... However, that for looks piece of tube first up centers on the rear face of the shroud and then in turn registers on a cutout on the actual reciever. In short, sorts of partly an added "hold in place" for that overly long barrel and... in a word it seems to work. But, weīll get to that.



Plenum is a rather massive proposition. Said to be on 100ccīs but from my calculations itīs actually even a tad more. Gauges in turn seems to be rather on the money - referenced vs a pro one.



Valve though, same ol same ol. Just this time out all them holes we recognize from BT-65 and so forth, this time out theyīre on a full 6mm diameter.



The by now fabled quattro trigger. No. No, itīs NOT a "match" anything but.. can sure be adjusted to hearts content and thus be had to work within reason and then some.
I still try and get to terms with them tho, in all honesty.



Ah. Then the valve housing. Although it doesnīt come across that well in the picture, again a part with massive amounts of chatter before threading the thing. Itīll work but as a sorts of machinist i have to say that as we see it in more than one place on the gun... nah.



Yeah well, that poppet. No. Just no, so turned an insert i threaded M6 out of bearing bronze and done deal.

[Racing]

....



Which leaves us with that there. As iīve experienced many many a time how well the 2mm diameter spindle trick works, yes.
In short summary just yes.
No. Youīre correct. That modification before iīve even shot the thing. Correct.



So. Whatīs the point of the Sniper Long then? That. Right there iīd say, cause the thing will shoot and it doesnīt care one yota if pellets or slugs. That in the pic being 1o shots taken at 36 meters measured. Just like the Meta Premium.
That being said i havenīt gotten around to really fool around with the unit as far as setting and that there target is NOT as i sit down to go ape on it but much more so just throwing the gun up on the bench letting her rip.
So yes. Thereīs no doubt room for improvement why i calmly state that yes. Yes it will shoot.









Uhu. Sheīs a tall girl no doubt. With the moderator added a VERY tall girl even.

Itīs to be noted that the stock shroud, i added some filler to that which was just the ticket. In turn with one of my own cans out front the thing is about dead silent really.
Guess thatīs from the overly long barrel coupled with the shot cycle at hand.

Upcoming mods?
TBH what comes to mind is a more heavy duty hammer spring. The stock offering wound on a mere 1.2mm wire why that is now what sets the limit. Going to look into getting one on 1.6 to 1.7mm instead.

One a whole though as a build, this is where it comes up a tad short vs the Meta Premium in my opinion. All that AR compatible stuff, guess thatīs why.
It feels "toy-ish" for lack of better words. Iīm certain itīll hold up just fine but as you handle the unit it sends the impression it isnīt fully bolted together. Might very well be i look into that.

However. Have Hatsan gotten "their *hit together" on this one?
Reply to that, again just my opinion, is that to the greater part - yes. It seems so, as the bottom line isnīt the AR compatible stuff but how it shoots.
..and it does.

[JPSAXNC]

Good write up. Yep, if it's shooter that's the bottom line. If it stops being a shooter, I would hold the poppet design suspect.

[Racing]

Thanx.

Uhu. Agreed on the valve design. TBH iīve got a hard time getting a grip on why Hatsan insists on that valve design.
Some of what they pull off is rather talented in my book, like the replacable poppet seat out of plastic for instance. The multiple exhaust port setup on the Hatsans though, itīs just beyond me.?
So many of us have arrived on, from practical trials, that a "timed" single exhaust port does the job that much better.
Thus the reason to keep with that multiple exhaust port setup... iīve got nothing. Really.

[JPSAXNC]

I wondered about the multi port valve, no need to worry about alignment, Just introduce a bunch of lost volume, Yep. For the valve seat, I made the seat out of stainless, and the poppet out of peek, same as the original design, minus the crazy stem. I only have two Hatsan pistols, but I see they use the same guts in a number of guns.

[JPSAXNC]

The funny thing about Hatsan barrels is, someone manufactures a high quality blank, and then someone else does stupid things to the ends of the blanks. Sharing the wealth should come with a sharing of knowledge.

[mikeyb]

Nice work! Even though I don't own that specific Hatsan this kind of information is the reason I'm here! To LEARN and HELP when I can :-)

Regarding the Hatsan valve design it IS getting pretty OLD. It obviously works but has room for improvement.

It does make sense to me from a manufacturing POV considering the price point and the target customer. Hatsans ARE "bargain" air rifles overall. I'm NOT bashing Hatsan! They are my FAVORITE air rifle manufacturer BECAUSE they are relatively inexpensive AND can be improved with a small amount of effort at minimal cost.

"Clocking" a single hole alignment does provide that final tuning adjustment that some of us seek. However, I'd bet >98% Hatsan customers don't care about or need that refinement so for Hatsan to implement that change, along with the manufacturing and assembly tweaks required to properly clock a single port alignment, would not be a financially prudent move.

Out of the many thousands of rifles sold with the "no alignment required multi-port design" there have been a few dozen(?) dedicated enthusiasts who plugged and/or redrilled the valve exhaust holes to get either peak energy or peak efficiency from their airgun. It's just not enough to justify the change so I understand why Hatsan maintains that design... for now.

Regarding Hatsan barrels and crappycrowns I've seen several different Hatsan rifles recently with badly "attempted" crowns. Improperly used DULL tools leaving laughable chatter marks AND significant inside burrs. How hard can it be to simply deburr and form a simple crown? This is one QC step I think they COULD implement with minimal manufacturing/assembly cost on their end :-(

I'm not convinced Hatsan barrels are high quality blanks. IME the barrel quality varies a lot with most being simply "adequate or good enough" for the overall value. Some ARE very good and accurate but others could be considered junk. Just what I expect from a "bargain" air rifle manufacturer.

[Racing]

Yeah guys, as i work on guns iīve seen my fair share of Hatsans.
Some have been insanely good, others quite the opposite. No wonder they carry the rep they do.

Over here though for many a model you get to pick if a stock tube or a Lothar made one. From what iīve gathered, and have been told, their "upper tier" models like the Novastar and what not all carry the LW option.
As to the truth of that, no idea but iīve thus far to run into a "low ball" barrel on one of the more semi expensive ones.
Go figure.

Whatever though as whatīs presented in the pictures is the raw truth, and seeing the Sniper Long isnīt exactly inexpensive at least (as a pcp) thatīs just plain sub marginal. If your intent is to clear a muzzle crown up on a barrel to be installed on their flagship piece then for the love a gosh do so.
Noone in his right mind pulls that there off and walks off content.
That IS the bottom line.

That being said, as noted, since the barrel went on the merry go round on the lathe the thing shoots lights out for real. It really does, think of it what ya wish.

FWIW then.
The transfer ports on this thing are ample, to say the least. However the one opening thatīs not on par with the others is the barrel inlet, which is an oblong proposition on a mere 4mm width.
I get why, thatīs not the issue, while if muzzle performance CAPACITY is on the agenda that there thing will put a strangle hold on performance.

So today two things got done.
First up i clocked the valve exhaust. I cut n ground up a set of M8 allen stoppies to handle the task, threaded the openings on the valve body and installed.
Second up i opened that transfer port on the barrel up as i saw fit. Still oblong though, fwiw.

Itīd be a lie to state this made for a profound difference in performance, albeit no doubt there. However iīm absolutely certain itīll play dividents as this project is pushed forwards.

On that note, i wonder if Hatsan hands more than one style hammer spring for these units. Where weīre at this thing bottoms out on said HS why a stiffer replacement is in order.
The stock offering, at least on this unit, being would on 1.2mm dia wire. Not enough...

Thing is that Hatsan claims some rather stout No from this thing and as someone at least not left completely in the dark on how these things works.. not happening on that HS. That simple.

So what iīm asking is if that HS is the same no matter country of destination?
If possible please just take a pair of calipers to it and take a measurement.

Oh! N i ran into an issue. The exterior adjustment of the regulator no bueno. So need to rip that apart to see whatīs up and remedy.
In other words she still runs on 150 bar.
That being said, sure makes for a decent shot count.

[JPSAXNC]

I think the issue with Hasan parts is that Hatsan doesn't make all of there parts. They source some of there parts from other suppliers. Some parts look nice, other parts look like they were made in someone's back yard in Pakistan. I think that is why there are inconsistencies in performance.

[Racing]

No matter which really it still boils down to their rep on two counts.

How they hold together and how they shoot.

Issue iīve got with that is that iīve run into many that did neither. No wonder they keep the reputation they do and what partly *isses me off is how easy it would be for Hatsan to remedy.
In an increasingly more intl world it simply doesnīt suffice to come up second (or actually off the bottom of the chart) on after sales. If itīs so an Epic or Daystate or whatever man is fallable and as such.. *hit happens and thus an after sales dept is needed. It really IS that simple why it in reality doesnīt matter if the mans reside in Turkey, Britain, Sweden or China. Thatīs 101% besides the point.
Fact is, iīm kind of puzzled why the market (thatīs us) takes to that *rap by some.
Not cool.

Anyway.
Itīs saturday right and the stores are closed. Wanted to see what a slightly stiffer HS would bring so robbed one of my other recievers on a HS for an Impact.
Yeah.
In a heartbeat.
Going to try heavier slugs out come tomorrow, as far as accuracy.
That being said the stock spring is on a 1.2mm wire right. The Impact one is on 1.4 why iīd state that my take there with a 1.6-1.7 wire wound one would be the ticket..
I believe so.
Let it be known that the install of said Impact spring made for one MASSIVE jump in power.

[Racing]

Just came to baffle my mind a bit but..



This there picture is a few yrs old by now, and is one of the first Factor that came across my workbench.
Albeit Hatsan by now in other words have had a few years to look into the weaknessīs on the Factor i at the time had a few in the door.
Quality on them was so poor itīd be to laugh at if it wasnīt for the fact that someone had paid good money for it after all.

In contrast what i was delivered in the Sniper Long is downright eons apart. Seeing my previous experiences with the Factor i of course took to picking the entire puff apart and truth be told they ARE now bolted together and they ARE now put together with parts that seems more sturdy.
Product development in its own rights i guess?

Taking a deeper dive on the SL differences within is nothing short of massive too. Back then the Factor was strangled like all over, the SL not so much. Or more to the point, not at all really.

I guess thereīs the old saying not a flaw but a feature as far as the length on the SL, cause one MASSIVE rifle it is. This of course means weight too, usually does with Turkish made guns, why i within rights presume that the SL was never intended to be fired off of anything but a bipod.

Ok.
So Hatsan did their homework?
As stated above, well yes n no. Yes in as much that i have no doubts what so ever that these units will live up to their claimed power, at will. Yes in as much that the barrel(-s) seems to be doing the trick now.
No in as much that albeit looking different vs many other a pcp itīs more looks than anything really. It still comes down to flowpath, restrictions and trigger as i regard it.
Would the SL have been a better unit designed as a bullpup to make it that much shorter?
I guess.
But herein also then that i GUESS one of the selling points of it is how massive it is.

That being said iīm really looking forwards to playing around with the unit to see where it takes me.

[JPSAXNC]

I don't remember if you said what caliber the long is, but the hammer spring issue is a head scratcher. Does the poppet have a large sealing area? What pressure are you running? tia

[JPSAXNC]

I forgot to mention that when I made the stainless seat I left it flat, with a micro radius on the edge of the hole. So that the Peek poppet just sealed on the edge of the hole, for a smaller than stock foot print.

[Racing]

With the now Impact HS itīs run at approx 150 bar (stock setting) and with the modified valve and in turn ported barrel inlet itīs tossing 40īs @ north side of 1000. 25 caliber.
Rather low key at that, as noted.

However.
Hatsan themselves claim the SL to be capable of 115 footpounds in 25 caliber, which is a rather far cry from 40s out the nose at say 1010-1020.
In all honesty though i kind of find that power claim sorts of moot, at least for my use.
Engineering exercise?
Partly, i guess?

Spent a few hrs with it today again and, it is really accurate at the limited distances iīm currently shooting at. 34/40/42 grain H&Nīs.. differences in accuracy is slight.
It, thus far, simply shoots them all well.

A few Q marks that pops up though as i spend time with the unit.
Like, that rather long unsupported barrel. Yep, all to aware that the shroud tube no doubt takes a fair share of the load. Doesnīt matter cause thatīs one LONG stick stickin out of the reciever no matter how you regard it.
So me and close friend talked it over today, going to try at least two 3D printed versions of barrel bands upcoming. Not so much for performance as protection and guide-ness.

Next up.
Going to pick that Quattro trigger apart. Going to try some different springs, want to keep it two stage but with a pronounced way more difference in weight between the two.

In turn then... A stiffer HS. Cause it needs it to become all it can be. The stock "anti bounce" setup leaves some to be desired in my book, going to look into that as well.

Cheek comb on the stock. For some reason just insanely wide to no real avail. Going to look into that to be able to "sink in" way harder on purchase knowing all to well how imperative it is to consistent accuracy.

Note.
All thatīs been brought up so far are points that no doubt CAN be handled. Not as in reengineer the entire thing but more so small bits n bobs, for lack of better wording.

Poppet in turn.
Iīm with you, hence why i didnīt even give the stock offering a second look. Been around this game long enough to know what works by now when it comes to the basics, and the truth of the matter regardless of which pcp is that going to a 2mm dia shank poppet out of PEEK is always a winner. To the point where even some of the manufacturers has finally caught up.
I still run on the stock plastic valve seat though, absolutely convinced that it moves "under fire". Hatsan for whatever reason came to halt on using a plastic seat and metal poppet sealing surface. Go figure, and keep at it to this day.
That seat though, if you give it some thought, most likely cuts down on poppet bounce as the two surfaces meet up.