Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10

[darryl]

this stuff is getting more interesting daily. OK so I hold off on the new barrel. But I'll check the trigger-pull out once I get the other new parts in.  Stephan, thanks for posting the o-ring chart. Also, 40 shots? I mean really. You and I need to trade rifles. Those are some great spreadsheets. I was getting similar shot curves with the H&Ns and the JSB Heavys, but only across 30 shots.
While I'm waiting, I might as well check the air valve to see if there's any dirt in there. I was so careful! Once I get this thing sorted out someone's going to get a great rifle.

[Stefan]

I posted the string that I used for testing. Now, I only fill to 175 bar and shoot 24 shots inside 4%.
Spring has same strength as stock, but less coils and its a bit thicker.

[darryl]

Stephan I finally got to cross-reference the o-rings I used on my barrel against the list you posted. They are of the exact dimensions of your -011. Here it is a #6 o-ring. So I can almost discount that as a cause of erratic FPS. Now to call Andrew at UMAREX.
darryl

[darryl]

OK I called Andrew. He researched, and found that UMAREX has the same drawing for the Pneuma Elite 10 as posted by Stefan (sorry about prior spelling) and is the one I already have. Now UMAREX will go over the drawing and see which parts correspond to it's parts list for the single shot inventory, and which ones need to be ordered for the 10-shot version. It will then order the parts it does not have. It was a bit of an ordeal, but I hung in there. I also got my parts ordered (they are in common with the single-shot version, and so were in inventory. I should get free shipping except I forgot to ask for it). phew!
darryl

[SAADE]

bandit:  Did you ever setlle on a PCP?

Air Arms, Daystate, BSA (higher-end), FX and others are the way to go.

Seems that (nearly) all the $400-$500 PCPs need another $200-$300 before they are worthy? Just my 2 cents worth after reading all the MRod, Disco, Pneuma posts about valves, barrels, triggers, stocks, hammers, etc, etc, on this and other forums.

Better to keep saving for that "jewel" that makes you smile right out of the box?

[Stefan]

nah, that wouldn't be fun

[SAADE]

True dat, way better to cobble together a "custom" MRod that can't be sold for the extra $500 plowed into it!

Makes that $800 Air Arms look pretty smart after all!

[TOM aka critter99]

how can they call it that???  I have had a bad experience with them , and so has a close friend.  Umarex is the last place that will actually fix something mostly what I have seen is they say all is fine even when it is obviously not

Like you said below

"I found nicks in the outer barrel o-rings, which seemed to cause an accuracy variation that got a lot better after I replaced those o-rings (this after I sent the rifle to UMAREX; it was returned with a report of "no problems found".

[darryl]

well, in for a penny; in for a pound ( I keep saying that for some reason). If I want to sell this rifle and put the cash towards something better, I want to cure it of it's ills first off. If I keep it, I want to cure it of it's ills, and enjoy it for it's promised potential.

Saade has a good point about top-tier brands. Just something to save for now.

Tom, I wish I knew why the velocity on mine varies  now. I was feeling good about having solved the accuracy issue with those new o-rings and finding that burr, and having fun tweaking the performance with the plugged-hole modifications used by Bob. Then SOMETHING happened, and now I'm back to square-one. The inconsistent FPS is probably the reason for the odd grouping I'm seeing again, but it's symptomatic if whatever the cause is.

Today I'll check the air valve for proper operation and dirt as suggested. I'll know I've got this rifle sorted out when I can get decent 10-shot groups at 40, and 50 yards. That seems to be the norm for a good one.

[TOM aka critter99]

Look on the bright side.....in between troubleshooting sessions you can shoot that S200 *_*

I would step back from it for abit....get a full set of orings ready and later after being rested and a fresh set of eyeballs do a complete teardown and inspection.

 

[coax]

Here are 2 other 30 shots strings for those interested;

H&N Barracuda 5.50mm 21.4 gr.
1 835 2 842 3 843 4 846 5 847 6 850 7 854 8 858 9 862 10 860 11 860 12 863 13 864 14 870* 15 860 16 858 17 854 18 850 19 844 20 836 21 830 22 827 23 824 24 821 25 814 26 804 27 796 28 790 29 782 30 775
HI 870 LO 775 AVG 837 ES 95 SD 26 (Best 20 shot average is 852FPS @ 34FT/lbs)

JSB Jumbo Monster 5.50 25.4 gr.
1 760 2 767 3 766 4 757 5 773 6 786 7 782 8 787 9 794 10 794 11 801* 12 795 13 796 14 794 15 799 16 796 17 801* 18 800 19 795 20 794 21 790 22 788 23 788 24 777 25 773 26 764 27 758 28 754 29 744 30 739
HI 801 LO 739 AVG 780 ES 62 SD 18 (Best 20 shot average is 791FPS @ 35FT/lbs)

This is as the rifle came out of the box.  I'm playing with the barrel bands due to POI shifts as the air reservoir loses pressure causing vertical stringing, I believe (helped a little with front barrel band removed and now waiting to test with rear band removed).  I think after getting as much as possible from removing barrel bands and/or free floating it's time to look at a cleaned up lead-in and recrown.

[darryl]

Tom, I stepped back, went to Lowe's, then Home Depot looking for the duct seal shown on their websites.  Neither had the stuff. I was looking forward to building a new back stop/pellet trap.

coax, how much of a POI shift are you getting? You're having too much fun, dangit! I assume you don't have an LDC on your rifle.

A friend is trying to get me interested in a BAM 50. He and another own it and a B51. At least they can hit something at 50 yards. My Pneuma can too if it's as big as a Saturn 5B. (sigh)
 

[rsterne]

coax.... You're getting 20 shots with the Baracudas and 23 with the Monsters within 4%.... and the first shots are pretty much bang on 4% below the peak (OK, with the Monsters you could fill maybe 5-10 bar less).... I'd be pretty happy with those strings for a stocker.... The gun I worked on was 2 FPE below your numbers (same pellets).... so you've got a strong one.... With those pellets I was getting 26 shots within 4% and 30 within 6% of peak.... Higher power = less shots....

Bob 

[eddielee70]

Home depot have Duct Seal.  It's in the electrical department where the small fuses and small connectors are.  don't look in the high power electrical department.  it's in the same isle as the light bulbs and small switches.  I found them at the same isle in 10 Home Depot.  also best to call to see how much do they have in stock.  

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100212441/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Lowes have them also, but cost $2.50 per stick, instead of $2 at home depot.  I bought like 120 of these to make 4 duct seal of 14" x 14"

[coax]

Darryl, with both barrel bands on, from the first 5 shot group to the first the centers dropped, 2nd grp 0.468", 3rd grp 0.889", and 4th grp 1.50".  After removing the front barrel band only, the drop was only 0.419" over all 4 five shot groups.

Some of the drop can be attributed to loss of velocity as the fill goes down, but not the amount I originally was getting.  Also, my rifle likes to be filled to 200bar, unless shooting the JSB Heavy Monsters.  Even then the Monsters like about 185-190bar.  I would have never known this without buying another chrono, because my old one quit functioning correctly shortly after getting this rifle.  Now that I know my shot string info, I need to test again at 50yds while incremently removing contact with the barrel.  If I go to a total free float and am happywith the accuracy, then I'll look at boring out the barrel portion of the barrel band for clearance, while still maintaining some stock integrity and barrel protection from hard knocks.  No LDC on there.  My lead-in to the barrel doesn't look great either, but I'm not trying to spend more $$ than I have to.


I do get some sub-inch groups, but it seems to rely on reservoir pressure.  They are not the norm for this rifle though.

[coax]

Bob, I've been tracking your great work and was hoping you were in overwatch.  I am pretty happy with the shot strings.  Looking at your work, and not wanting to make a cheap rifle expensive while getting it to serve my purposes is the goal.  The vertical stringing was/is my group killer and is the major thing I'm looking to eliminate.  I think reducing the shifts from reservoir pressure and re-diong the lead-in, it will get where I want it.

If I didn't have to send the first Pnuema back and having to troubleshoot this one, I would have bought another at the price.

[rsterne]

I don't know if you ever saw my results for the full-power AT44-10.... Here are the shot strings for the stock gun with different pellets....



In all cases, I recorded the best 30 shots relative to the velocity peak.... You can see the classic shift towards lower pressure fills as the pellet weight increases.... If you make a note of where the first and last shots are on each string and then look at the pressure at that point.... you can see where the optimum fill and refill pressures were for each pellet.... In each case, the slowest shots were about 6-7% below the peak velocity.... The heavier the pellet was, the higher the FPE.... and also the higher the efficiency.... It ranged from 0.93 FPE/CI and 25.7 FPE avg. for 11.9 gr. Hobbies.... to 1.20 FPE/CI and 33.1 FPE avg. for the 25.4 gr. Monsters.... over the 30 shots string....

Bob

[Stefan]

I have cleaned my barrels with JB Bore paste yesterday. I was lazy, didn't disasamble the rifles (AT and Disco), so I cleaned them from the muzzle. I used a brass rod and brownells cleaning patches. After that treatment, I went through with non-brass bore snake in opposite direction.
I was shooting kinda in a hurry, it wasn't warm outside. Targets are at 30, 50 and 100 meters.
I used the stock air cylinder, and a regulated air cylinder that has a heavier valve spring in it (which I changed after today's tests to the stock one).
Shots are front rested, at 32x magnification. I didnt bother too much to zero the scope for every pellet I tested.
Later I'll attach the shot strings, it takes time to fill in the data

[coax]

Bob, I've seen your work on the rifle down to the finale.  In my mind, it is some of the best work and documentation ever!  When my chrony broke I was using your stuff.  I was surprised after I got my new chrony that my pressure peaks and velocity were so different.  Normally, when I see strings etc... on the net, my guns follow the same patterns almost exactly.  Again, you do some fine work and thanks for helping us all out!

[Stefan]

shot strings are in attachments