Author Topic: Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 (Read 61783 times))

coax · « **Reply #80 on:** December 05, 2011, 10:54:56 PM »

Bob, the price for the LW barrel doesn't seem too bad. I don't know how bad shipping and customs would be out of Canada though. I've seen the Hatsan website. The longer models with the Turkish walnut are beautiful! Once/if I get this one squared away there could be another Hatsan PCP in my future. I'm definitely not into paying more money for just the prestige of a name.

darryl · « **Reply #81 on:** December 06, 2011, 02:30:51 PM »

coax, any closer to sorting it out?

coax · « **Reply #82 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:57:55 PM »

Quote from: darryl on December 06, 2011, 02:30:51 PM

coax, any closer to sorting it out?

I am making small strides. I can say w/o a shadow of doubt that this Pneuma hates 5.53mm FTTs. I got like a 5 shot group of 3 inches. Then I hit a praire chuck target at 52 yards 3 times almost tearing the 1 inch pasty off of it, only to have it miss wide right with the wind on the 4th shot, and then miss way left into the wind on the fifth shot...strange.

I tried with only the front barrel band on; JSB 18.1gr. averaged 1.30" with somewhat vertical groups and the group center point of impact shifted more than others, Barracuda 5.50mm 21.4gr. averaged 1.20" bucked the wind better and had more circular groups than the JSBs, JSB Jumbo Monsters 25.4gr averaged 0.92" with circular groups (one group was 0.442") seemed almost impervious to the wind till it started creeping up to 7-10mph. These were at 50yds. I then shot a 1.8" twenty shot group (which would have been 1.2 inches if the wind hadn't caught 4 shots and carried them in a group to the right. I should mention the groups were shot in single digit temperatures and I was kinda in a hurry on my work breaks.

I guess the next step is test without any of the barrel bands next. I'm pretty sure I could cut a 1/4 to 1/2 inch off of these groups by sorting pellets, but I hate doing it and it will wait. Progress is a step at a time.

darryl · « **Reply #83 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:11:44 PM »

coax that's great work you're doing. I'm anxious to get mine back together so I can adjust the trigger engagement to see if that will even out the fps. If I can do that and get some decent accuracy I think it'll be good to go. After all I had some great-looking spreadsheets before it went bonkers. I'd be happy getting the results you have now.

From the testing results, your rifle seems to handle the heavier pellets much better than the lighter ones. good stuff!
darryl

coax · « **Reply #84 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:31:24 PM »

That tip Bob gave about the trigger was interesting. I may go back and adjust my trigger a little stiffer, but with the monsters all the shots sound the same. Yep, your strings did look good. I think these Pneumas prefer heavy pellets unless modded. If I lived back east and only wanted a woods hunter, I would have been done. This thing is a killer with iron sights out to the 36 yards I tested. Out here in Colorado, sometimes the shots are out past 50, depending on where you're hunting, and the tighter your long range grouping the better in the wind too. On that vertical stringing with the JSB 18.1s, I took a headshot at a PD today at 64yds while he was grazing. I think I hit his hand cuz he was hopping around like it was hot. Had it been tighter shooting and not stringing groups, he would have been in the bag.

darryl · « **Reply #85 on:** December 07, 2011, 11:00:49 AM »

it would be nice to have a rifle that can head-shot the pd out to 70 yards. I wonder if the Pneuma has it in it? Hope my parts got mailed on time. Meanwhile I just ordered a BAM B50/.22 from Flying Dragon Air rifles (Mike Melick). $216.95 shipped. Somehow I need to recoup that money.

coax · « **Reply #86 on:** December 07, 2011, 12:23:15 PM »

I've heard and seen many good reports on the BAM 50/51 from years ago. Hard to pass on a deal like that. I have a broken B40 that was one of my all time favorites. Now to take the next steps on the Pneuma.

darryl · « **Reply #87 on:** December 07, 2011, 01:11:38 PM »

I was a closet BAM fan since I owned and sold a B30. I still get to see it when I catch up with the buyer. I've liked the B40 too, but never found the right situation to buy one.

The next steps on the Pneuma? This sounds exciting!

coax · « **Reply #88 on:** December 07, 2011, 08:28:27 PM »

Latest test is with both barrel bands off at 50 yards. So, the barrel is totally free-floating. I almost forgot to mention that without the barrel bands the heaviest part of the rifle has no support. The Pneuma is making progress.

I tested the JSB 18.1s first and the average for four 5-shot groups was 0.91". A reduction in average group size of 0.40". One of the groups would have been a 0.60", if it hadn't been for a flyer. No point of impact change.

I decided to skip testing the Barracudas due to time. I also figured that these two pellets would tell me most of what I wanted to know. I fired 10 shots to season the barrel for the new pellet and then shot four groups of 5 with the JSB Monster 25.4 grainers averaging 0.56". This is a reduction in average group size of 0.36".

The barrel bands definitely hinder accuracy on this rifle. However, the front end of the stock is flimsy without them. I plan to put both back on, but hopefully can bore them out to free float the barrel and provide a little protection, so that they look alright. There is not a lot of plastic to play with between the holes for the barrel and the air reservoir.

I think I have decided to sort pellets to try and improve the groups sizes further. I have never sorted JSBs before, but I'm not sure they are made as well as they were a few years ago. Previously, I would have considered sorting JSBs a waste of my time. I do sort all boxed Crosman premiers though, as years ago I found that shooting 20 or 30 shot groups resulted in 2 to 4 fantastic, albeit seperate groups, by a small margin

darryl · « **Reply #89 on:** December 07, 2011, 09:20:10 PM »

hey coax those are great results with the free-floating barrel. I actually cut one of the bands down, and installed it at the end of the stock. That firmed things up, and also gave some support to the air tank. The problem I ran into was when I installed the LDC. It actually made the barrel droop to where the rear end of the LDC was touching the the end of the tank. Yes, that LDC is kind of heavy, but I was really surprised by that droop. So ever since I've had to keep one complete barrel band (cleat) on the rifle because it's extremely loud (imo) without it. I've since ordered a new cleat to replace the one I "modified". If the loudness is no issue for you, cut one down. You'd be basically cutting off the top portion, leaving the lower section complete. That's how I cut it.

congrats on the fine shooting. I hope my parts come soon. I haven't heard back about the cost of a replacement barrel. I don't think you need one though.

How the LDC sounds on the Pneuma:

without the LDC:

these tests were at in secret eastern European country.

coax · « **Reply #90 on:** December 07, 2011, 10:05:17 PM »

I've seen those vids before. Did you make those vids? The ldc is pretty effective.

I like quiet, but it's not neccesary where I live, but I do have to wear earplugs when I shoot in the garage.

The problem with just cutting the barrel bands down is the barrel has no protection in a fall. Especially when you consider how the barrel attaches to the receiver. If this darn thing would've shot like this without free-floating the barrel, I'd already have looked into the ldc. I saw your post about the droop with the ldc and put a piece of rubber under the barrel touching the reservoir one time and the accuracy still wasn't there (this was while it was still in stock configuration). The thing is, on my rifle, the pressure in the air reservoir seems to influence the behavior of the barrel too much.

rsterne · « **Reply #91 on:** December 07, 2011, 10:33:30 PM »

Can you bore one side of the barrel band to accept an O-ring and the other side to just clear the barrel?.... I have had good success with "semi-floated" barrels in O-rings on other guns....

Bob

darryl · « **Reply #92 on:** December 07, 2011, 10:45:38 PM »

having the barrel bands on only seems to aggravate the accuracy issue, if I read you right. If the air reservoir is influencing the barrel, that seems like a hard one to get by. That is to say that I don't have a solution. I'm new to PCPs so I ask stupid questions, but doesn't it seem strange that the "firing pin" extends into and over the port hole in the barrel? I watched it as I closed the cocking lever (the rifle is still disassembled) and was initially surprised by this. Seems as if it intrudes into the air charge when you shoot. Maybe it does that for added turbulence? I guess it clearly needs to shove the pellet far enough in to clear the port. Keep at it. Hope my parts come tomorrow.

Bob, I had wondered at how to let the barrel vibrate inside the barrel band. I think with the weight of the LDC on mine, the bottom of those o-rings will be compressed and offer less vibration absorption because of it; especially the band closest to the LDC. Then again, I didn't notice a great improvement in accuracy when I shot the rifle without the LDC on it. Neil Clague makes a full shroud for the barrel. Of course the barrel bands will have to go.

darryl

coax · « **Reply #93 on:** December 07, 2011, 11:02:02 PM »

Bob, the barrel bands just seem to aggravate tthe situation. It seems this barrel doesn't want to be in contact with anything. If and I'm not sure if I totally understand the question. Pardon me. As far as I can tell, the only part in contact firmly is the o-rings, but I may be wrong. Perhaps I should just try removing the o-rings first, huh? I'll probably need new barrel o-rings soon with all the shenanigans. LOL.

Stefan · « **Reply #94 on:** December 08, 2011, 02:10:21 AM »

I did remove upper o rings from the barrel bands.

darryl · « **Reply #95 on:** December 08, 2011, 09:09:48 AM »

Stefan, do you have a moderator (LDC) on your rifle? Per my experience, the barrel droops with one on it.

darryl · « **Reply #96 on:** December 08, 2011, 11:38:12 AM »

I just had an idea (Bob got me to thinking) that might work for me and my LDC. Tell me what you think. I'm thinking to drill out the one barrel band I'm using (to support the weight of the ldc, keeping it off the air tank). I would then fit rubber tubing over the barrel and into the barrel band (cleat). This piece of tubing would act similar to the bushings on your car: reducing NHV and allow the barrel to move which ever way it wanted. Maybe that would mitigate the problem coax is speaking of. The durometer of the rubber could be an issue to experiment with. I think too hard would gain nothing. Too soft likewise and the weight of the LDC would compress it to a point of uselessness.

I would mount the tube piece inside the barrel band to stabilize the barrel in one relatively consistent alignment. I saw that the barrel requires some support with that LDC on it. Of course I could always get the full shroud from Neil, but he says it's not as effective as the LDC in quieting the report.

PS can you believe this thread is five pages so far?

Stefan · « **Reply #97 on:** December 08, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »

I have LDC on my barrel. I have never tried it without bands, so I dont know would it move the barrel down. Its hatsans stock LDC.

coax · « **Reply #98 on:** December 08, 2011, 07:02:22 PM »

Okay, put both barrel bands back on, but took the o-rings out of the circle portion for the barrel. The results were dismal. JSB Monsters were shooting 1.2-1.4 inch groups, after turning in an average of 0.56 inches without them on at all. The next step is to bore out the barrel portion of the barrel bands, as this barrel likes no contact. I will post another test after I make some changes.

darryl · « **Reply #99 on:** December 08, 2011, 10:10:30 PM »

keep at it coax. I'm rooting for ya, man.

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Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10

Author Topic: Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 (Read 61783 times))