Must be .177, must be quiet - is a HW30/R7 the right fit?

[splitbeing]

I have no experience with Cometas directly. I have been reading anout them here. In addition to Mark and others, Jon also posts here and he is the one selling them from Pennsylvania.

I like this one:  https://keystoneairguns.com/products/cometa-fenix-400-usc-premier-star

The shorter barrel makes for an easier gun to shoot. The HW30 and Diana sidelevers have shorter barrles too and that is part of the shooting experience folks like so mixh.

The built in moderator quiets the report. I don't like fiber optic sights (except on my Diana EMS for some reason) and this gun does not have them.

Walnut stocks are generally a whole class above beech ones, at least on guns I've owned. The adjustable cheek rest might be helpful but is a take it or leave it thing for me.

Cometa triggers need some work to become great, I have been reading. Mark and others can help you with that if interested I bet.

My newbie 2 cents on the Cometas I've yet to shoot.

[AntiRodentTaskForce]

Beginning to wish I hadn't mentioned my own "best-guess" solution in my OP: HW30s + a moderator That mention was the result of the path my thinking/research took over the winter as I deliberated, and also my bias of familiarity, since I've used/enjoyed one before.

Let me clarify my priorities/constraints:

--Objective--:  clean, ethical kills on Eastern Grey Squirrels and chipmunks, from 10-25yds range (accuracy)

Constraint 1:  stay under .18

Constraint 2:  I must try to keep it quiet

Constraint 3:  total budget ~$400 max


So it seems my larger question is: "what .177 do you recommend someone with a 300-400 budget, which is most accurate and quiet ?"


Notes:

• I'm open to PCPs, in general
• open to paying a premium for a rifle I can keep and enjoy for years.  quality/durability/reliability/reputation, etc.
• open to buying used

[Robert 5mm]

Here is one of my pesting .177 airguns, Beeman 2027 with Buck-Rail accessories, shooting Crosman 10.5 gr pellets at 800 FPS, mouse fart quiet.
You will need a pump to fill it.

https://buck-rail.com/product/beeman-marshall-tactical/

(currently out of stock )

[Rick67]

OP said no pistol type.

Could be a state law thing.

The Gamo sale would have been perfect, particularly their .177 Coyote Whisper PCP for about $250 shipped,  but it ended last week.

From what I know, they're actually made in the UK, not Spain, or at least their venerated barrels are.

Oh, the Benjamin Fortitude comes to mind as well. With codes, they can be had for less than $300.

[Rick67]

https://gamousa.com/product/coyote-whisper-fusion-pcp-177-caliber-rifle/

They were on sale a week ago. All you need is a cheap hand pump, but here is another with a most excellent CS and uber easy to pump as well:

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-fortitude-gen-2-pcp-air-rifle-regulated?m=4569

Use GATEWAY-PYRAMYD

[AntiRodentTaskForce]

OP said no pistol type.

Could be a state law thing.

After digging deeper, I found clarification that "Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter , so pistols are in the conversation, if they can be accurate + quiet

[Rick67]

OP said no pistol type.

Could be a state law thing.

After digging deeper, I found clarification that "Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter , so pistols are in the conversation, if they can be accurate + quiet

I suggested the 1701P from Amazon, but you would need a moderator and a carbine stock for that one, adding to the cost... and may need to change the transfer port for more loop mph 'cuz it's a low power but very accurate pistol with its Lothar Walther barrel.

[north country gal]

Rob, if you are open to used, I'd definitely consider PCP, but you'll need to be careful to get a model that allows for doable and practical filling via a hand pump to stay within your budget. If you have to go compressor, you'll spend your entire budget just on that. Going used, though, may get you a rifle with a hand pump. And don't forget a moderator. Without a moderator, PCPs can be very loud with more of a high pitched crack.

The trick here is to select a gun with a small volume reservoir or lower psi or a combination of both. Here's a couple I've picked up over the years.

This is an old Benjamin Discovery, aka Disco, in 22 cal. I bought it used with hand pump and add on moderator for $150. The reservoir only runs at 2000 psi, so 50 pumps to fill to min to max. Even old granny me can manage it. That only gets me 20 shots, but at 900 fps in 22 cal, this is actually more powerful than any of my springers. With the add moderator, it is whisper quiet. Also very accurate, as in sub one inch at 50 yards. Also made in 177, of course.


Here's another one that is easy to fill with a pump. It's a now discontinued CZ 200 S(Sporter) in 177 that I also bought used. Ran me $350, no moderator, no pump, but I already had a pump. The CZ 200S runs at 3000 psi, but it uses a smaller volume reservoir, so also 50 pumps or so to fill. With this one, though, I get 60 shots at 750 fps, similar in power then to my HW50 springer. Higher quality throughout than the Disco - much better trigger and more accurate to boot. Easy sub inch shooter at 50 yards. Just a delightful, handy, fun to shoot PCP. One of my favorite air guns, period. You'd have to go add on moderator, but those are easy to find.


The big advantage to PCP for my shooting is the better average group size, of course, but more importantly for your purposes, PCPs are much less sensitive to change in hold or shooting position than springers. Definitely a better choice for improvised, grab and shoot kind of situations. Note, too, no air gun rated scope needed.

[Cslinger]

You are in analysis paralysis. .

Get the HW30/R7 in .177 and you will love it.  I cannot imagine it won’t do what you want it to do within 20-30 yards. It’s fairly quiet, has an excellent trigger, is super accurate and easy to shoot, very light and handy, has a robust support structure and is just a plain great RIFLE notice I didn’t say air rifle because it’s just a good RIFLE PERIOD.

[splitbeing]

Benjamin Fortitude if going PCP given your priorities.

[splitbeing]

You are in analysis paralysis. .

Get the HW30/R7 in .177 and you will love it.  I cannot imagine it won’t do what you want it to do within 20-30 yards. It’s fairly quiet, has an excellent trigger, is super accurate and easy to shoot, very light and handy, has a robust support structure and is just a plain great RIFLE notice I didn’t say air rifle because it’s just a good RIFLE PERIOD.

I also agree with this post.

[Rick67]

Benjamin Fortitude if going PCP given your priorities.

...and it's mag-fed for hasty follow-up shots.

No need for a moderator 'cuz it's shrouded.

To reiterate, Crosman's CS is nonpareil.

[Yogi]

You are in analysis paralysis. .

Get the HW30/R7 in .177 and you will love it.  I cannot imagine it won’t do what you want it to do within 20-30 yards. It’s fairly quiet, has an excellent trigger, is super accurate and easy to shoot, very light and handy, has a robust support structure and is just a plain great RIFLE notice I didn’t say air rifle because it’s just a good RIFLE PERIOD.

I also agree with this post.

Yes it is a great rifle.  However, it is not as quiet as a moderated PCP.

-Y

[Methuselah]

You are in analysis paralysis. .

Get the HW30/R7 in .177 and you will love it.  I cannot imagine it won’t do what you want it to do within 20-30 yards. It’s fairly quiet, has an excellent trigger, is super accurate and easy to shoot, very light and handy, has a robust support structure and is just a plain great RIFLE notice I didn’t say air rifle because it’s just a good RIFLE PERIOD.

I also agree with this post.

Me too ... it may not be what you described, but it and the old Benjamin/Sheridan pumpers are simply fall into the "you can't go wrong" category. Sure, it's possible to get one that needs work, but get one that's on, and it tends to be the last one you will ever want to part with.

(no, I don't know this from experience, but from what I've read on the HW30's and from what I got a quick look at in 2015 and to this day regret not grabbing up. See my tagline? My next gun/s will be those two)

[Cslinger]

While a suppressed mid power PCP is absolutely the quietest solution by far and PCP rifles do come with absolute advantages there are a couple of caveats as I see them.

-the need for ancillary equipment (pumps/bottles etc) and their costs
-the need to periodically fill vs picking up and shooting as long as you like without dragging gear.
-the fact that cheap PCP’s really aren’t made all that well in my experience. At least at the level I would want.
-the fact that it will likely leak at some point. Not a big fat hairy deal but it’s a deal. Will a spring gun need a spring or seal, maybe but I’ve seen a lot of OLD springers running just fine.

I’m not poo poo ing PCP rifles and I think they can be amazing, and are basically shooting with cheat mode enabled but there is a bit more to them then just grab a gun a shoot.

[AntiRodentTaskForce]

This forum is wonderful.  I appreciate all of your thoughts, experiences and insights, so please keep them coming -- It is giving me a lot of thought, and it's helping to refine a solution I will feel good about.  And... helping me change my mind about things.

Crosman Custom Shop 1377 with a 14.6” Lothar barrel…

Whatever you're doing, it's working.  I'm now thinking to moneyball 2 good used airguns, one now, and another when a deal pops up.  Wish I had my thoughts together a week earlier, I missed a couple of deals.

Rob, if you are open to used, I'd definitely consider PCP, but you'll need to be careful to ...

Your writeup was exactly what I needed: it got me to take a fresh look at my use case.  Thank you!

You are in analysis paralysis. .

Get the HW30/R7 in .177 and you will love it. ...

Well yes.  But also no.  I'm now thinking i will end up with 2 solutions:  something very-quiet, and very-accurate at first (probably a PCP) ... and then an HW30 later on.   

While a suppressed mid power PCP is absolutely the quietest solution by far and PCP rifles do come with absolute advantages there are a couple of caveats as I see them.

-the need for ancillary equipment (pumps/bottles etc) and their costs
-the need to periodically fill vs picking up and shooting as long as you like without dragging gear.
-the fact that cheap PCP’s really aren’t made all that well in my experience. At least at the level I would want.
-the fact that it will likely leak at some point. Not a big fat hairy deal but it’s a deal. Will a spring gun need a spring or seal, maybe but I’ve seen a lot of OLD springers running just fine.

I’m not poo poo ing PCP rifles and I think they can be amazing, and are basically shooting with cheat mode enabled but there is a bit more to them then just grab a gun a shoot.

Now thinking along the lines of: I'll find something 2nd-hand for PCP, and then sell it on if it doesn't stick.

Now in search mode. 

[Rick67]

Some of my PCP builds in .177.

They have Lothar Walther barrels.

[Rick67]

They have removable stocks and are carbines, by the way.

Not a fan of pistols.

[triggerfest]

Rob, if you are open to used, I'd definitely consider PCP, but you'll need to be careful to get a model that allows for doable and practical filling via a hand pump to stay within your budget. If you have to go compressor, you'll spend your entire budget just on that. Going used, though, may get you a rifle with a hand pump. And don't forget a moderator. Without a moderator, PCPs can be very loud with more of a high pitched crack.

The trick here is to select a gun with a small volume reservoir or lower psi or a combination of both. Here's a couple I've picked up over the years.

This is an old Benjamin Discovery, aka Disco, in 22 cal. I bought it used with hand pump and add on moderator for $150. The reservoir only runs at 2000 psi, so 50 pumps to fill to min to max. Even old granny me can manage it. That only gets me 20 shots, but at 900 fps in 22 cal, this is actually more powerful than any of my springers. With the add moderator, it is whisper quiet. Also very accurate, as in sub one inch at 50 yards. Also made in 177, of course.


Here's another one that is easy to fill with a pump. It's a now discontinued CZ 200 S(Sporter) in 177 that I also bought used. Ran me $350, no moderator, no pump, but I already had a pump. The CZ 200S runs at 3000 psi, but it uses a smaller volume reservoir, so also 50 pumps or so to fill. With this one, though, I get 60 shots at 750 fps, similar in power then to my HW50 springer. Higher quality throughout than the Disco - much better trigger and more accurate to boot. Easy sub inch shooter at 50 yards. Just a delightful, handy, fun to shoot PCP. One of my favorite air guns, period. You'd have to go add on moderator, but those are easy to find.


The big advantage to PCP for my shooting is the better average group size, of course, but more importantly for your purposes, PCPs are much less sensitive to change in hold or shooting position than springers. Definitely a better choice for improvised, grab and shoot kind of situations. Note, too, no air gun rated scope needed.

+1 on affordable PCPs.

I have a CZ200 as well. If you can get one, go for it.



What about the Gamo Arrow ? With a build in moderator.

Or the Diana Stormrider ?

You can buy both for sub $300 INCLUDING a pump. And you're done. If you put a moderator on the Stormrider, it will beat the HW30s in terms of quietness big time.

[Rick67]

Forgot about the Gamo Arrow 👍

Very cheap and with sights.

The codes might even work.