My Next Truck Is Bulletproof!!!

[avator]

LOL, yeah, I don't see much value in the bulletproof thing. Maybe protection against a rogue shopping cart or door dings by idiots that have a whole parking lot to park in but choose to park within 12" of you but that's about it.

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

I have a friend that bought a new Ford Maverick PU 2.5L Hybrid and drove it from CA to CO where it broke down in his brother-in-laws driveway. It was towed to the Dealer where it had to sit for six months waiting for the part needed for the repair. He and his his wife had to fly back home and when it was finally repaired he flew back and drove it home where he immediately traded it in. Ford did not have the proper support in place for the Maverick. it looks good on paper though.

[Rob M]

OK.
Assuming zero maintenance on IC car and zero energy cost on EV

I’m at 200,000 miles to break even for our car vs model 3.
And 145,000 miles for our truck vs the cyber truck.

For the record, I change my own oil, and simple stuff like brakes, pcv valves, valve cover gaskets, etc.

Yeah, apples to oranges comparison then. Don't most ppl pay to have their cars serviced? So if you account for this higher service cost, and as the EV needs to account for its electricity cost (which most EV owners charge at home, usually later on at night at greatly reduced rates, while they sleep) the EV always comes out ahead.

Define “ahead.”

I just plugged the numbers into a EV vs ICE calculator, assuming I got a car for 13,600, and assuming I took out a loan for both cars. (The numbers for an EV radically don’t work if you’re paying cash, the only reason they could work is if the difference in fuel cost was greater than the difference in monthly payment.)

I think were starting out at an unrealistic  price for a 2022 model 3 base
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/vin/5YJ3E1EAXNF373738/?radius=100

new price would be around 41k.
But i also agree that a gas car makes more sense for most people as of now ( only because of the charging infrastructure

[anti-squirrel]

I'm in the "They are building the wrong type of EVs if they want fast adoption rates" camp.

Provide the public EVs like a base model Versa/Civic or a super-stripped Colorado/Ranger.  IE: cheap, basic, functional.  An entry cost of $30K+ is not affordable to the folks who buy used cars in the 10k-and-under range.  And it is those cheap-car-buyers that would be the ideal demographic for EVs.

To me, the future is PHEVs; plug-in hybrids allow a day's local driving on all electric, and road trips you get the range of your tank of fuel with fast fill-ups.  Since we tow equipment regularly, our 09 Tahoe Hybrid (regular hybrid, not PHEV) was a great starting point into the world of hybrids.  Our next car will likely be a used late-model PHEV unless EV costs come down.

I see a lot of Teslas and often enough I see Ioniqs and Rivians on the regular.  I don't have issues with any of them- except the focus still seems to be offer EVs at the highest cost with the most luxury people will pay for.  That is literally the opposite of what Joe Six-Pack would buy.

Now if somebody offered an EV 4wd (dual motor) pick-up that could handle mudholes, offroad trails, pull a 16' camper and still offer minimum 400 miles range with said camper at $35k, I'm fairly certain it could catch up to the CR-V and Camry hybrids for sales volume.  I know I'd be in the line.   I also think the entire ICE market missed the boat.  Instead of all the idiocy sunk into diesels since DEF came to North America, we should have focused on EV heavy equipment.  Several of my customers purchased EV electro-hydraulic trash trucks a decade ago and those vehicles now MAKE money thanks to the radically reduced cost of operation and repairs.  Data doesn't lie.

Back to OP (Mr Bulk)- I think you're making a good choice based on what you're looking for.

[mrbulk]

And here it is if the ICE econo box gets a 60 month loan. The calculator doesn’t allow a 60 month loan for a Tesla.

Note, both have “Years to break even = NA”

Then the calculations are restricted by software.
Use something that compares both in an apples to apples situation, and I'll be more likely to believe it.

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

I'm in the "They are building the wrong type of EVs if they want fast adoption rates" camp.

Provide the public EVs like a base model Versa/Civic or a super-stripped Colorado/Ranger.  IE: cheap, basic, functional.  An entry cost of $30K+ is not affordable to the folks who buy used cars in the 10k-and-under range.  And it is those cheap-car-buyers that would be the ideal demographic for EVs.

To me, the future is PHEVs; plug-in hybrids allow a day's local driving on all electric, and road trips you get the range of your tank of fuel with fast fill-ups.  Since we tow equipment regularly, our 09 Tahoe Hybrid (regular hybrid, not PHEV) was a great starting point into the world of hybrids.  Our next car will likely be a used late-model PHEV unless EV costs come down.

I see a lot of Teslas and often enough I see Ioniqs and Rivians on the regular.  I don't have issues with any of them- except the focus still seems to be offer EVs at the highest cost with the most luxury people will pay for.  That is literally the opposite of what Joe Six-Pack would buy.

Now if somebody offered an EV 4wd (dual motor) pick-up that could handle mudholes, offroad trails, pull a 16' camper and still offer minimum 400 miles range with said camper at $35k, I'm fairly certain it could catch up to the CR-V and Camry hybrids for sales volume.  I know I'd be in the line.   I also think the entire ICE market missed the boat.  Instead of all the idiocy sunk into diesels since DEF came to North America, we should have focused on EV heavy equipment.  Several of my customers purchased EV electro-hydraulic trash trucks a decade ago and those vehicles now MAKE money thanks to the radically reduced cost of operation and repairs.  Data doesn't lie.

Back to OP (Mr Bulk)- I think you're making a good choice based on what you're looking for.

 The Data that doesn't lie says they aren't for everyone!


  Joe Six-Pack isn't alone, there's nothing attractive to Moe Ice-Tea, or Dan Lemonade either! Up Front Costs total functionality counts most for "my kind".
 My car choice has to be able to do whatever whenever I need it to. In Rural So. CA they can't even keep my lights on reliably enough to be acceptable there is NO way I can depend on the transportation electric support too.

[brewbear]

I'm in the "They are building the wrong type of EVs if they want fast adoption rates" camp.

Provide the public EVs like a base model Versa/Civic or a super-stripped Colorado/Ranger.  IE: cheap, basic, functional.  An entry cost of $30K+ is not affordable to the folks who buy used cars in the 10k-and-under range.  And it is those cheap-car-buyers that would be the ideal demographic for EVs.

To me, the future is PHEVs; plug-in hybrids allow a day's local driving on all electric, and road trips you get the range of your tank of fuel with fast fill-ups.  Since we tow equipment regularly, our 09 Tahoe Hybrid (regular hybrid, not PHEV) was a great starting point into the world of hybrids.  Our next car will likely be a used late-model PHEV unless EV costs come down.

I see a lot of Teslas and often enough I see Ioniqs and Rivians on the regular.  I don't have issues with any of them- except the focus still seems to be offer EVs at the highest cost with the most luxury people will pay for.  That is literally the opposite of what Joe Six-Pack would buy.

Now if somebody offered an EV 4wd (dual motor) pick-up that could handle mudholes, offroad trails, pull a 16' camper and still offer minimum 400 miles range with said camper at $35k, I'm fairly certain it could catch up to the CR-V and Camry hybrids for sales volume.  I know I'd be in the line.   I also think the entire ICE market missed the boat.  Instead of all the idiocy sunk into diesels since DEF came to North America, we should have focused on EV heavy equipment.  Several of my customers purchased EV electro-hydraulic trash trucks a decade ago and those vehicles now MAKE money thanks to the radically reduced cost of operation and repairs.  Data doesn't lie.

Back to OP (Mr Bulk)- I think you're making a good choice based on what you're looking for.

 The Data that doesn't lie says they aren't for everyone!


  Joe Six-Pack isn't alone, there's nothing attractive to Moe Ice-Tea, or Dan Lemonade either! Up Front Costs total functionality counts most for "my kind".
 My car choice has to be able to do whatever whenever I need it to. In Rural So. CA they can't even keep my lights on reliably enough to be acceptable there is NO way I can depend on the transportation electric support too.

I looked long and hard at hybrid vs. EV and finally decided on the hybrid. I hate saying this but... I drove a Hyundai Tucson made in Korea (the second year production for the model/year) and my hybrid Tucson is also made in Korea. The Korean made ones have better fit and finish. Not trying to denigrate the American made ones but... it's those little details that eventually add up. In the 15 years I owned the first Tucson I only did the scheduled maintenance, no other problems encountered.

[Horatio]

I'm in the "They are building the wrong type of EVs if they want fast adoption rates" camp.

Provide the public EVs like a base model Versa/Civic or a super-stripped Colorado/Ranger.  IE: cheap, basic, functional.  An entry cost of $30K+ is not affordable to the folks who buy used cars in the 10k-and-under range.  And it is those cheap-car-buyers that would be the ideal demographic for EVs.

To me, the future is PHEVs; plug-in hybrids allow a day's local driving on all electric, and road trips you get the range of your tank of fuel with fast fill-ups.  Since we tow equipment regularly, our 09 Tahoe Hybrid (regular hybrid, not PHEV) was a great starting point into the world of hybrids.  Our next car will likely be a used late-model PHEV unless EV costs come down.

I see a lot of Teslas and often enough I see Ioniqs and Rivians on the regular.  I don't have issues with any of them- except the focus still seems to be offer EVs at the highest cost with the most luxury people will pay for.  That is literally the opposite of what Joe Six-Pack would buy.

Now if somebody offered an EV 4wd (dual motor) pick-up that could handle mudholes, offroad trails, pull a 16' camper and still offer minimum 400 miles range with said camper at $35k, I'm fairly certain it could catch up to the CR-V and Camry hybrids for sales volume.  I know I'd be in the line.   I also think the entire ICE market missed the boat.  Instead of all the idiocy sunk into diesels since DEF came to North America, we should have focused on EV heavy equipment.  Several of my customers purchased EV electro-hydraulic trash trucks a decade ago and those vehicles now MAKE money thanks to the radically reduced cost of operation and repairs.  Data doesn't lie.

Back to OP (Mr Bulk)- I think you're making a good choice based on what you're looking for.

 The Data that doesn't lie says they aren't for everyone!


  Joe Six-Pack isn't alone, there's nothing attractive to Moe Ice-Tea, or Dan Lemonade either! Up Front Costs total functionality counts most for "my kind".
 My car choice has to be able to do whatever whenever I need it to. In Rural So. CA they can't even keep my lights on reliably enough to be acceptable there is NO way I can depend on the transportation electric support too.

That’s my joke about CA. “They’ll do what they can to encourage EVs, then neglect to make sure the power stays on.”

[lefteyeshot]

I drove tractor trailer over the road most of my life when I wasn't in and out of the Army the rest of my life. I never owned a pick-u or SUV. When I totlly retired a couple of years ago I down sized. All we have in the drive way now is two 2010 Dodge Charger SXT's.

[Thumpa]

My fellow countryman, John Cadogan has strong (well informed) views, and a very sharp wit relating to Elon Musk's rampant BS and the CyberTruck.  You'll find him on YouTube if you're up for it 
Warning: Tesla fan boys and girls, you may not appreciate John's opinions.

[Nomadic Pirate]

any sticker shock when they announced the new pricing ? are you getting the single , dual , or tri motor variant ?

Actually I felt no real sticker shock after I did the math and added the tax credit to the old prices (for an apples-to-apples comparison) and then subtracted the tax credit from the new prices. After adjusting for inflation between 2019 and now the prices are about the same or in the case of the single motor, about $3,500 cheaper today...except for the top trim tri-motor CyberBeast of course, I believe they priced that one way high because although everybody thought they would be getting the latest/greatest EV truck for super cheap, I think Tesla wants to position the CyberBeast as their halo vehicle given the lagging sales of the older former halo cars the S and X.

I won't go into the advantages of EVs over gas cars because, after owning three of them so far (including the wife, she is now SOLD on EVs after experiencing the positive change in our automotive lives ever since we got our first EV), I can tell everyone that living with them is indeed better, both financially and convenience-wise, despite all the negative disinformation put out by big oil and the gas car industry who unfortunately are fighting for their very existences as EVs really start to catch on like they already seem to be.

Instead I will just say to check it out if you are considering a new car/truck, it will change your life for the better (or I ain't Mr Bulk).   

*contact me personally if you want to learn more 

My friend you are so right,...no matter how much they try slapping down misinformation to make them look bad, Electric vehicles are fantastic, once the charging infrastructure is in and tech is getting better everyday both for speed of charge and range of batteries the future will be bright

[avator]

Manny, I'll buy into that statement, to a point. But they also need to reduce the cost of manufacturing and the use of fossil fuels to safely and efficiently produce them and the power to run them. There are bi products to consider with the production and the alternative fuels to produce and power them.
"New and improved" is probably the biggest and most deceptive marketing lie ever used. The truth often lies between the lines and in the fine print.

[Struckat]

I am on the fence.

I work for an engine company that has done extensive research on this tech. There are glaring problems that need to be overcome before an electric can be in every garage.

I forget which metal, but there are only 5 or so strip mines in operation today that supply the material. The world will need at least 50 more to go electric.

Strip mines are bad. But hey, no one will miss those villages or the peasants now buried there.

Sure big oil put out a lot of misinformation, but the electric people are the same, just newer.
They will not tell you about what goes on behind the scenes.

Yes I realize those same strip mines provide the materials that goes into the device I am holding now.

We keep thinking we will save the earth, but we can only transfer our destruction from one place to another..

I do want an electric ever since my brother in law smoked my GTI with his Tesla….

What is the plan for the old batteries? Throw them in the ocean?

[lefteyeshot]

Just curious. Will motels let you charge the car from your room and would that work? Could one carry a little gasoline power generator in the trunk to recharge or would that be enough power?

[AKM]

I am on the fence.

I work for an engine company that has done extensive research on this tech. There are glaring problems that need to be overcome before an electric can be in every garage.

I forget which metal, but there are only 5 or so strip mines in operation today that supply the material. The world will need at least 50 more to go electric.

Strip mines are bad. But hey, no one will miss those villages or the peasants now buried there.

Sure big oil put out a lot of misinformation, but the electric people are the same, just newer.
They will not tell you about what goes on behind the scenes.

Yes I realize those same strip mines provide the materials that goes into the device I am holding now.

We keep thinking we will save the earth, but we can only transfer our destruction from one place to another..

I do want an electric ever since my brother in law smoked my GTI with his Tesla….

What is the plan for the old batteries? Throw them in the ocean?

You get it. Poisoning the ground and ground water can be far worse then polluting the air.

Once those heavy metals get into the earth and aquifers reclamation can take a century or more. It also takes huge amounts of energy (fossil fuels) to smelt and manufacture those rare earth materials.

Strip mining is horrible for the planet and manufacturing huge amounts of batteries is not the solution for saving the planet.

[mrbulk]

I am on the fence.

I work for an engine company that has done extensive research on this tech. There are glaring problems that need to be overcome before an electric can be in every garage.

I forget which metal, but there are only 5 or so strip mines in operation today that supply the material. The world will need at least 50 more to go electric.

Strip mines are bad. But hey, no one will miss those villages or the peasants now buried there.

Sure big oil put out a lot of misinformation, but the electric people are the same, just newer.
They will not tell you about what goes on behind the scenes.

Yes I realize those same strip mines provide the materials that goes into the device I am holding now.

We keep thinking we will save the earth, but we can only transfer our destruction from one place to another..

I do want an electric ever since my brother in law smoked my GTI with his Tesla….

What is the plan for the old batteries? Throw them in the ocean?

Just about the batteries - Google Redwood Materials. THEY will take any used batteries from EVs right now, and in fact they are running into a shortage of them to recycle. Not enough EV’s getting that old yet. The batteries have been known to last 300K miles.

[mrbulk]

Just curious. Will motels let you charge the car from your room and would that work? Could one carry a little gasoline power generator in the trunk to recharge or would that be enough power?

Many hotels and motels now have what’s called “destination charging” meaning like the ones people put in their garage to charge overnight.

[mrbulk]

any sticker shock when they announced the new pricing ? are you getting the single , dual , or tri motor variant ?

Actually I felt no real sticker shock after I did the math and added the tax credit to the old prices (for an apples-to-apples comparison) and then subtracted the tax credit from the new prices. After adjusting for inflation between 2019 and now the prices are about the same or in the case of the single motor, about $3,500 cheaper today...except for the top trim tri-motor CyberBeast of course, I believe they priced that one way high because although everybody thought they would be getting the latest/greatest EV truck for super cheap, I think Tesla wants to position the CyberBeast as their halo vehicle given the lagging sales of the older former halo cars the S and X.

I won't go into the advantages of EVs over gas cars because, after owning three of them so far (including the wife, she is now SOLD on EVs after experiencing the positive change in our automotive lives ever since we got our first EV), I can tell everyone that living with them is indeed better, both financially and convenience-wise, despite all the negative disinformation put out by big oil and the gas car industry who unfortunately are fighting for their very existences as EVs really start to catch on like they already seem to be.

Instead I will just say to check it out if you are considering a new car/truck, it will change your life for the better (or I ain't Mr Bulk).   

*contact me personally if you want to learn more 

My friend you are so right,...no matter how much they try slapping down misinformation to make them look bad, Electric vehicles are fantastic, once the charging infrastructure is in and tech is getting better everyday both for speed of charge and range of batteries the future will be bright

Manny, I feel only those who actually experience (and not just test drive around the block) an electric vehicle in daily use will understand. It’s like a light bulb went on in my head once I realized how much better and easier our EVs made our lives.

I am speaking from personal experience because I have driven and experienced and loved all my gas burners for 50 years so when I was able to compare them to EVs it was … ”CLICK”!!! 💡

[Back_Roads]

 I could charge my EV off solar at work, if I had an EV Cloudy days there is a wind farm 2 miles away.

[Nomadic Pirate]

any sticker shock when they announced the new pricing ? are you getting the single , dual , or tri motor variant ?

Actually I felt no real sticker shock after I did the math and added the tax credit to the old prices (for an apples-to-apples comparison) and then subtracted the tax credit from the new prices. After adjusting for inflation between 2019 and now the prices are about the same or in the case of the single motor, about $3,500 cheaper today...except for the top trim tri-motor CyberBeast of course, I believe they priced that one way high because although everybody thought they would be getting the latest/greatest EV truck for super cheap, I think Tesla wants to position the CyberBeast as their halo vehicle given the lagging sales of the older former halo cars the S and X.

I won't go into the advantages of EVs over gas cars because, after owning three of them so far (including the wife, she is now SOLD on EVs after experiencing the positive change in our automotive lives ever since we got our first EV), I can tell everyone that living with them is indeed better, both financially and convenience-wise, despite all the negative disinformation put out by big oil and the gas car industry who unfortunately are fighting for their very existences as EVs really start to catch on like they already seem to be.

Instead I will just say to check it out if you are considering a new car/truck, it will change your life for the better (or I ain't Mr Bulk).   

*contact me personally if you want to learn more 

My friend you are so right,...no matter how much they try slapping down misinformation to make them look bad, Electric vehicles are fantastic, once the charging infrastructure is in and tech is getting better everyday both for speed of charge and range of batteries the future will be bright

Manny, I feel only those who actually experience (and not just test drive around the block) an electric vehicle in daily use will understand. It’s like a light bulb went on in my head once I realized how much better and easier our EVs made our lives.

I am speaking from personal experience because I have driven and experienced and loved all my gas burners for 50 years so when I was able to compare them to EVs it was … ”CLICK”!!! 💡

Indeed, performance is mind blowing as well as lack of maintenance, comfort of riding/driving, running cost and very, very little to go wrong.

Yes at the moment they lack in range and charging infrastructure but that will change rapidly as tech is moving forward at blistering speeds.