I Got Avenger 25 Back Still Leaking After AV Leak Fix

[CableStop]

" corners are being cut somewhere to get the price to where it is, "
Slave labor.

Saying this is what got me in trouble before so I don't want to pass any judgement on that front.  I'm just trying to bring more nuance to the argument that Chinese items are "poop" since they do make some good stuff, but they also absolutely make some real equine feces too, it all depends who's making it.  Most items we consume today are made by robots no matter the country of origin so really it's all down to material choices and QC standards.

But as it stands talking about economic and political policies isn't allowed on the forum and we should focus on the items themselves rather than the system that produces them.

[darkcharisma]

" corners are being cut somewhere to get the price to where it is, "
Slave labor.

Bingo...maybe not in the same factory, but they do have state sponsored slave labor in mining and other industries. I try my best to avoid anything with the words China on it. Love the people, but not the dictatorsahip that controls them. Also modern day concentration camps? Hard pass

I seen many chinese airguns shoot tight groups at 100 yards. Actually an Avenger 22 cal from Airtact Hunting does close to 1 inch.


What does "dictatorship and concentration camps" has anything to do with Chinese airguns being poop? do you use iphones? because those phones are made in China. Almost everything is made in China and imported from China, Even the building materials could potentially be imported from China.

[Texpatriate]

What does "dictatorship and concentration camps" has anything to do with Chinese airguns being poop?

It has a lot to do with who I want to give my money to. No, I don't use an I-phone. It's one thing to buy Chinese because there is no other remaining choice. Something else to openly support them.
 
There is more to producing a quality product "some of them can shoot tight groups".

[darkcharisma]

What does "dictatorship and concentration camps" has anything to do with Chinese airguns being poop?

It has a lot to do with who I want to give my money to. No, I don't use an I-phone. It's one thing to buy Chinese because there is no other remaining choice. Something else to openly support them.
 
There is more to producing a quality product "some of them can shoot tight groups".

This would be my last post about something off topic, sorry in advance guys. I dont wanna troll around here any longer, I dont have the need to convince you that chinese airguns are great. who cares. do what you want to do with your money. BUT...

IF you INDEED can tie "dictatorship, concentration camp" to AIRGUNS. then you can decide if you wanna buy that airgun or not. Thus I ask, have you any proof if dicatorship and concentration camps are related to airguns?

When I said "many chinese airguns shoot tight groups" NOT "some of them can shoot tight groups". It means do your own "dam" research before you commit into picking what you think is the best. Not just automatically assume...oh, all of chinese airguns are poop. FX and many big airgun companies made bad products too, not just chinese. remember the FX revolution, that was a nightmare...I am sure you can spot some defects with current line ups too if you look hard enough.

[JimD]

I will say in advance I am not a great shooter but for the ones that want to call everything from China "poop" please post some pictures of your groups at 33 or more yards.  Include information on what the gun costs.  If you doubt my 1/4 inch 3 shot groups and 3/16 5 shot I will be happy to post those. 

The Avenger got a bit overhyped in my opinion but it is a nice gun.  The trigger, for instance, is not great but with a change to the sear screw it is decent.  I've seen reviews that raved about the trigger.  That is what I mean by over hyped.  Either his gun was a lot different than mine or he was very generous in his praise.  The screw to fix this cost less than a dollar, however. 

I think it is wise to be a little leery about things that seem too good to be true.  But the Avenger is honestly a nice rifle.  Highly tunable, accurate, light.  I also do not think it ships with a reasonable tune (they turn the reg up to 2900 psi on the 25 caliber.  It cannot use that much pressure, the velocity will be no higher than it is at a 2400 reg setting).  But other than the leak mine came with I have no serious complaints.  We'll see longer term but for now I am enjoying my $300 50 ft. lb. air rifle that shoots nice little groups.  Air Venturi fixed my rifle under warranty and it holds air well now.

I don't try to buy from Chinese companies but when they offer what I think is the best value for something I want to buy, I will buy from them.  If you don't want to, that's fine by me.  As long as the vast majority of my purchases are good values I will continue to do so.   

[CableStop]

What does "dictatorship and concentration camps" has anything to do with Chinese airguns being poop?

It has a lot to do with who I want to give my money to. No, I don't use an I-phone. It's one thing to buy Chinese because there is no other remaining choice. Something else to openly support them.
 
There is more to producing a quality product "some of them can shoot tight groups".

I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating that this kind of talk isn't allowed on the forums.  When I said something about it before I apologized and acknowledged my mistake and moved on since everyone, including you and me, are allowed to have their own opinions as long as we don't impose them upon others at inappropriate times.  I got PMs from several people about it and had polite exchanges with them where we all resolved the issue amicably and I realized I was in the wrong.  No matter your opinion on certain subjects this is an airgun forum and we're here to talk about airguns, others may have different views on political and moral issues than you do but this isn't the place to discuss such differences. 

Hence why I was trying to avoid the subject of working conditions in my original post and stick to the fact that manufacturing a high quality product costs a certain amount regardless of where you produce it.  The material cost, expertise, and QC process are all expensive pieces that are independent of the work force which produces the final product.

[johnbrown]

I have 2 Avengers (17 and 22, $300 each, 2 Nova Liberty (177 and 22, $240-250 each) and a Nova Freedom 177 ($250).

They are all made by the same company, which is indeed Chinese.

They are the best value in air guns at the moment.

The best days of American manufacturing have ended years ago, and I understand why so many people have a problem with many of these jobs moving to China.
The root cause of these jobs moving to China lays with the American politicians, American businesses and American consumers, all chasing the lowest price and their self interests.

[Texpatriate]

"IF you INDEED can tie "dictatorship, concentration camp" to AIRGUNS"

I can't believe we have been permitted to get this far into the weeds but here we are so I'll make one last statement. You cannot separate Chinese industry from the CCP. That's what communism is. The facade of capitalism is all for show. The Party controls everything.

[BnHappy]

Wait, you thought something made in China was going to be quality?

what is this statement supposed to be? that all chinese airguns are poop? there are alot of chinese airguns that will shoot really well and very good quality!  pp700, gauntlets, spa m10, Nova liberty...you name it.

this is strictly about the customer service from Air Ventury.
=====

Op, If its leaking from the valve and poppet. you can make a delrin poppet or modify the valve like i have done in the picture. may need a lathe.

Thanks for checking it out, you're the man I need to talk too from what I hear. I don't have a lathe and I'm going to have to get the parts or someone to fix this for me. I've got a video finished on it that I haven't posted, but to make it short, it leaks worse than when I sent it to them, and the regulator is maxed, I'll need a poppet and I don't have a lathe.

I'll be in touch, I'm obviously not getting this fixed from AV, they made it worse than when I sent it to them. I've been steaming for a few days so I've ignored the post while testing.

Yeah, the "Chinese poop" is pure "poop" within itself, ignorance and hate, like we need more of that. Sheesh. Thanks again.

[Madd Hatter]

I have 2 Avengers (17 and 22, $300 each, 2 Nova Liberty (177 and 22, $240-250 each) and a Nova Freedom 177 ($250).

They are all made by the same company, which is indeed Chinese.

They are the best value in air guns at the moment.

The best days of American manufacturing have ended years ago, and I understand why so many people have a problem with many of these jobs moving to China.
The root cause of these jobs moving to China lays with the American politicians, American businesses and American consumers, all chasing the lowest price and their self interests.

I wouldn't have tried telling guys who bought the liberty, or aspen/freedom 6 months ago that. The poppets would fail and until only recently weren't available except through people like Duy who are making replacements. I've got a aspen aka freedom out in the airgun shed that little more than a paper weight because the check valve system is leaking like a sieve. These are made by the same company Nova Vista that makes the origin, and the avenger and is a chicom company. If you know how to mod these guns they are just fine but for beginners or especially those who have little or no mechanical skills they should avoid them IMHO. Beleve it or not, I never had any problems with the poppet or the pump on my aspen just the check valves leaking.

[Dan H]

China gun's do not have a very good track record when it comes to reliability , if you do buy 1 make sure you can get a full refund with at least 1 year warranty ... out of 2 Avenger's, and  2 Dar guns   3 of those guns had to be returned , so on those 4 gun's we / I  have a failure rate of 75% with those guns ... ,

On the other hand I have a .25 refurbed Gauntlet that will shoot with about any FX out there shooting 25.39 JSB ...  ... it has held air for over a year ! trigger was junk out of the box so I had to modify it , and now it is pretty good ...

I just bought 2 AEA air guns  .357 challenger 24inch barrel ,and the .30 bullpup 32inch barrel challenger .... so far with around 200 shot or more each they seem to be working good with no failures pretty accurate none reged big bores holding air at this point .... triggers are very heavy with a short pull before break , I still have to polish the trigger mech's ,and see if that improves the trigger , it most likely well  ....

Myself I would prefer not to   buy CCP Chinese product , but the way manufacturing has gone world wide it is very hard not to , or buy a gun that some of the parts are not made in China , one of the only other countries that really competes with them is Turkey = Hatsan / Kral / Cattleman's , and other's from that country ....

China gun's are great for people who make parts to fix them ... that is how they stay busy - correcting defect's to make the cheap gun's perform correctly ....

[RunsOnAir]

If you know how to mod these guns they are just fine but for beginners or especially those who have little or no mechanical skills they should avoid them IMHO. Believe it or not, I never had any problems with the poppet or the pump on my aspen just the check valves leaking.

I am a PCP beginner and received my avenger last Fall (Ordered early June of 2020) with a slow air leak that was resolved  following simple steps to follow by other forum members. I understand that I may have been lucky, as it has not required a return under guarantee so far.

Still, I could not be happier in that I have an entry level PCP I can use for anything, plinking with my sons (it is nicknamed the 'can opener'), practicing target shooting, or hunting ground squirrels and sparrows (those explosions of feathers are oddly satisfying, by the way).

My avenger has put a smile on my face every single time I have reached for it because it allows me to do what was reserved to significantly more expensive air guns before that. I am learning how to tune an air gun, how to test different pellets and slugs to see how best it could perform in a specific role.
I am now looking for the air rifle that will replace my Avenger down the road, and I have a hard time finding another one in any price range that would check all of the boxes this one does.

Regarding quality issues:
Having issues with a new purchase might not be the best experience, that's for sure, and having to send it back infuriating/frustrating as the air gun is intended to be shot/enjoyed instead of traveling. At the same time, it seems that more and more of my purchases, from cars (I am talking about 100% U.S of A manufacturing right here) to foreign air guns, no matter what their perceived quality or price tag are, have flaws, defects, and other major issues that need addressing after they are put on the market.
As bob said, " The times, they are A-Changin' "

[Gone Fishing]

Hey sorry I didn't come back to this thread. I don't think the content is political but you could make it so if you want (I don't see a need). We make consumer choices everyday, so I don't see why only China made products get an exemption of critique.

What I mean by dictatorship is that China does live under a communist dictatorship, and there is forced labor camps there and there are concentration camps (Uyghur muslims among other unwanteds). So in both QC consistency and in their government, their guns are as close to poop as it comes in my opinion. Like I said in my first post, I love the people, but don't like their dictatorship. Everyone has different value judgements, and mine are that products that support a dictatorship and include slave labor among many more atrocities are just poop. I would say the same about a German guns if the same things were happening there.

Can they produce the same quality as USA products? Of course. Do they consistently, across brands, supply the same QC as other countries? No, no they do not. The reason for that is they lack the freedom of most capitalist societies, and because of that also lack the competitive QC standards and instead utilize cheap and slave labor to outdo QC with budget items. Being selective on buying products or not buying products is a conscious choice. I don't have an iPhone for the same reason. I love Chinese people and support their eventual freedom, but I decide not to support their evil dictatorship every chance I get. Most of my products are not made in China....I spend usually 2xmore but that is what it will take. Of course sometimes a product from there is the only choice, but whenever I do have a choice I make it. I love a lot of the ideas that come out of China when it comes to airguns, and some of them are really ingenious, but as a consumer I make a choice to buy from elsewhere. This is a global economy, and I can buy from any nation state and anyone I want. See it isn't political, it is just economics and we do this stuff every day even with American brands we don't like (say a grocery product whose QC or brand is unethical or so on). I will happily reconsider China as a source for products when their government is replaced wiith a democracy. Until then, if a Chinese person or any other nationality makes a gun in another nation state, other than China, I will happily buy it if it meets my needs.

I think I saw the word hate above regarding being critical of Chinese products for QC and ethical reasons. Whenever I see someone say something like "you are being hateful" as a response to a consumer decision, based on ethical evaluations during the purchasing process, I try to remember that most Americans don't think this out as deeply, and that most people use the word hateful now to shutdown a valid logical argument.

As for the Avenger, cool product at a great price. But that is, to my point, the issue isn't it: it comes with a heavy price that no one has to see, as do all their products. I am not ignorant of that.

[Trucker3573]

Great I just ordered a wood stock avenger. Sounds highly likely it might be a POS. I don’t understand some of the responses of accuracy meaning quality. What good is an accurate gun that won’t hold air? I’m much more worried about that. I could have sworn I read that PA were selling replacement poppets for these guns?  Kind of why I ordered mine.

[Gone Fishing]

Great I just ordered a wood stock avenger. Sounds highly likely it might be a POS. I don’t understand some of the responses of accuracy meaning quality. What good is an accurate gun that won’t hold air? I’m much more worried about that. I could have sworn I read that PA were selling replacement poppets for these guns?  Kind of why I ordered mine.

I believe they are selling it, but am not 100% sure. I think there are a few people making aftermarket ones too since their earlier iterations of this gun had the same issue.

[Bunyboyz]

I believe I saw the YouTube video on this.

Yet they now are charging more for wood stock same poppet.

It should come with a new poppet at this point

[Gone Fishing]

I believe I saw the YouTube video on this.

Yet they now are charging more for wood stock same poppet.

It should come with a new poppet at this point

Correct yeah. Pretty funny they don't fix the problem. #1 fail point. Kind of mind boggling that they havn't completely overhauled that whole issue but, as I always say, there is a but.

[Back_Roads]

 Rick Ustler will be giving his thoughts on the Avenger in an up coming Airgun Guys Facebook video live coming up.

[Madd Hatter]

I believe I saw the YouTube video on this.

Yet they now are charging more for wood stock same poppet.

It should come with a new poppet at this point

Nova did come out with a delrin poppet. According to Tyler the new avangers will come with the new poppet. PA also sells replacement poppets for the Aspen, liberty, and avenger.

[John4861]

My 2 Avenger's were returned for full refund with multi problems with each of them ...

Thank You!  I feel so much better now. I was talked out the AV's, and since I don't have all the tools to mess around with them, I figure to leave them alone until I can see what's really going on if I have issues.