Need to tear up my gun and do some maintenance need some advice

[byhsu]

I will be opening up my HW35, I think I might have a bad Piston Seal, sometimes the shots are high sometimes not.  I am considering the Custom Air Seals, anybody used them?  I want to get something that I don't really have to resize, from their website it says is low friction.

Also, while the rifle is open, i will polish the ends and put some lube.  I am also looking to add a Top hat and a tighter fitting spring guide, from what I've seen , the HW35 doesn't come with a top hat and the spring guide could be more tight fitting to minimize vibration.

Now I don't have a Lathe.  Is there anyway to make a top hat and spring guide without?  Or Where can I buy them for a factory HW35 spring?  I am also considering the TbT tuning kit for HW35.  I am not interested in increasing power of my rifle, so I am not considering the Vortek kit.

Thank You

[Stinger177]

You don't state what year of HW35 you have, so that would be a bit helpful. Send us the serial number and we can date it, unless you know what vintage it is.

Vortek does not necessarily mean an increase in power. Tom at Vortek can cut coils or otherwise get you a kit and customize it to the power level that you want.

While on the subject of Vortek, I would recommend their Vac-Seal as it's moly impregnated and will soon seat itself to fit.

 

[byhsu]

You don't state what year of HW35 you have, so that would be a bit helpful. Send us the serial number and we can date it, unless you know what vintage it is.

Vortek does not necessarily mean an increase in power. Tom at Vortek can cut coils or otherwise get you a kit and customize it to the power level that you want.

While on the subject of Vortek, I would recommend their Vac-Seal as it's moly impregnated and will soon seat itself to fit.

 

Is a newer one with the synthetic seal. bought it new in 2018

My spring is still good that is why I didn't want to do a Vortek kit, plus is more money.  Also i've heard that the power goes up and is harsh to shoot, then later the power goes down, and spring life is not as long as Factory spring.  My spring is still good, i've only shot it maybe 1000 ~ 1500 shots.

serial # picture attached.

Thanks

[Stinger177]

Well, the power does not go up (necessarily) just because it's a Vortek kit. As I said, you can have Tom at Vortek tune the kit for your preference. AND, I install Vortek PRIMARILY to reduce the harshness.

I understand that if all the other parts are good, no need buy things you don't need. What i do like about Vortek is the sleeve, and everything is plug-n-play, but again, there is $$ involved.

So that being said, I guess the only advice I can give you is on the piston seal - the Vortek Vac-seal.

 

[byhsu]

thanks I will check into it.  No need to resize ?  I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?

Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.

[Stinger177]

There are people here that do the custom stuff. I'm surprised that they haven't chimed in.

Again, I would talk to Tom at Vortek, but my only expereince with his product is with HW77, 95, 98, and HW30's.

I'll send you a PM.

 

[Bayman]

thanks I will check into it.  No need to resize ?  I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?

Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.

Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals

[byhsu]

thanks I will check into it.  No need to resize ?  I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?

Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.

Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals

what i mean by custom parts, is just parts made to fit on the OEM spring.  I just don't need the spring. Don't want to spend $79 or 89 for a kit with guides and spring that don't match up to my OEM spring.  Don't know why there is a need for you to put me down.  I have been very respectful to all members on this forum don't see why you have to have this tone.

I have other HWs, and I have checked for what you are describing, it doesn't happen with my HW97k, R1, HW50s or HW30s.

[Stinger177]

Pablo, read my PM.

We're not here to offend or contest you. We're just providing suggestions and trying to help.

The thing is, by the time you buy a special tophat or guide, how do you know that it will actually fit the OEM spring? Doing it that way, you could be just a few $$ short a fully tuned kit, including the spring.

As I said in my PM to you, I have not yet purchased individual tophat or guides to fit the OEM spring. I just don't see it as cost effective. Especially if things don't fit.

The whole spring individual component thing can get very complicated; O.D. of spring, OAL, coil count, coil diameter. Will this fit that, does that fit this?

That's all way too much brain drain for me, and I need to retain whatever brain matter I still have left after 67 years.

JMHO

 

[Guzziman]

Hi
My 35E is about a year old and I know where you are coming from. Cheapest solution I know of is buy a TBT kit.  By the way they offer a sized guide 15.8mm and 15.5mm kit. The newer guns like ours are supposed to use the 15.5 kit.  I ordered an Aussie green seal when my FPS recently fell off pretty abruptly and I have about 1000 shots in mine. The Aussie seals  take awhile to get to the US right now. 

Used a TBt kit with factory spring in my 50S with complete debur and polished tube and trigger. My 15 year old gun was transformed , accurate smooth and holding nicely in at  11.5 FPE.  I used a vortek seal with this build.

I am ordering a tbt kit for my HW35E shortly.

Bruce

[byhsu]

Thank You good to know 15.5 is the kit i need. Once i get my tools to take it apart then I will open her up and check the actual ID of my spring to make sure.

[Yogi]

thanks I will check into it.  No need to resize ?  I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?

Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.

Call Motorhead!

-Y

[Bayman]

thanks I will check into it.  No need to resize ?  I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?

Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.

Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals

what i mean by custom parts, is just parts made to fit on the OEM spring.  I just don't need the spring. Don't want to spend $79 or 89 for a kit with guides and spring that don't match up to my OEM spring.  Don't know why there is a need for you to put me down.  I have been very respectful to all members on this forum don't see why you have to have this tone.

I have other HWs, and I have checked for what you are describing, it doesn't happen with my HW97k, R1, HW50s or HW30s.

I wasn't putting you down. If you took it that way I apologize. What I meant is that it sounds like you're saying too different things. You don't want to spend money on a kit but you want custom parts. Having custom parts made for your spring would best be done with your spring in hand and would require time and money shipping the spring back and forth. IMO the kits are worth every dime and they're not life changing giant money. If a kit ends up costing you an extra 30 bucks over "custom" parts it's well worth it.

The other part of my response is geared towards helping you fix the actual cause of your problem, instead of throwing your money away and wasting your time on the guts of the rifle. I gave you good advice on where else to start looking first. My point If I were putting you down I wouldn't be trying to save you money. I know some people are easily offended and or don't understand New Yorkers and sometimes there's other language issues but I in no way meant to be disrespectful. I meant to give you usable practical advice that was intended to help you solve your problem.

Another well meaning suggestion is that you get a chronograph if you don't have one. I didn't see any velocities listed which would imply you don't have one. Chronographs are key for diagnosising the health of air rifles.
 
Another thing to note is original equipment Weihrauch springs don't last forever and are prone to breaking. I've had several break in my Hw30 and Hw95. So I don't know how many shots you already have on your 35 or if the Hw35 springs fair better than the ones in the 25&26mm guns but you may be looking at getting a new spring soon anyway.

Whatever you decide to do it's your gun and I apologize if my message offended you. It wasn't my intent. My intention was to say I didn't understand your logic and provide you directions to diagnose the problem at hand. Could it have been done in a more universally understood nicer manner? Sure! but heck I am a NY car mechanic it's just kind of the way we talk here.

[tjk]

I will be opening up my HW35, I think I might have a bad Piston Seal, sometimes the shots are high sometimes not.  I am considering the Custom Air Seals, anybody used them?  I want to get something that I don't really have to resize, from their website it says is low friction.

Also, while the rifle is open, i will polish the ends and put some lube.  I am also looking to add a Top hat and a tighter fitting spring guide, from what I've seen , the HW35 doesn't come with a top hat and the spring guide could be more tight fitting to minimize vibration.

Now I don't have a Lathe.  Is there anyway to make a top hat and spring guide without?  Or Where can I buy them for a factory HW35 spring?  I am also considering the TbT tuning kit for HW35.  I am not interested in increasing power of my rifle, so I am not considering the Vortek kit.

Thank You

Just out of curiosity, what pellets are you shooting and what is the condition of your gun. Old, new, fresh action, broke in action, etc. has your barrel been cleaned  recently, how often do you clean your barrel.  Before digging too deep into a diagnosing a potential problem, i would look at the simpler possible causes first. Ex, pellets, barrel condition, Barrel pivot tension although that should be less of a cause being the 35 has a positive locking mechanism.

[Madd Hatter]

Pablo, read my PM.

We're not here to offend or contest you. We're just providing suggestions and trying to help.

The thing is, by the time you buy a special tophat or guide, how do you know that it will actually fit the OEM spring? Doing it that way, you could be just a few $$ short a fully tuned kit, including the spring.

As I said in my PM to you, I have not yet purchased individual tophat or guides to fit the OEM spring. I just don't see it as cost effective. Especially if things don't fit.

The whole spring individual component thing can get very complicated; O.D. of spring, OAL, coil count, coil diameter. Will this fit that, does that fit this?

That's all way too much brain drain for me, and I need to retain whatever brain matter I still have left after 67 years.

JMHO

 

Oh Dennis, just go have a few beers and it'll all start to make sense 😂. Works for me every time!

[byhsu]

Bayman: 

What I meant was, if there is any other supplier that produces Spring Guide and Top Hat like TBT that I should be looking at, or if they are the only company that offers these parts for OEM Spring.  Never done any tuning by myself so just looking for options now.

I know my spring should be good, obviously I will have to open the gun to verify that, but its only got less than 1500 shots.  And you are right, I would not want to send my spring and piston to someone to make parts and then pay shipping again to get it back.  Might as well get the Tuning Kit you were referring to.

TJK:

It is a pretty new gun. i've done no more than 1500 shots, pretty sure more than 1000 shots on it.  I do have a chrono, and the 7.9gr Crosman Premier Hollow Points are doing about 800fps ,  When i was testing velocity i was not concentrating on hitting a target, but i did see a few that were 500fps.  maybe 1 or 2 in 20 chrono readings. 

Now when I was sighting my new scope, I did not shoot it thru a Chrono, it would be dead on target at around 15 yards, then a few shots are low, i have to adjust the elevation on the scope then it shoots too high later and i got to keep adjusting.  (point of impact difference is about 2 inches) By the way this is the 3rd scope.  First was Bugbuster 3-12x32AO, 2nd was Bushnell Sportman 3-9x32ao, current one is Hawke Vantage 3-12x40ao.

I should also point out this Bugbuster is on my HW50s and it is very accurate. haven't needed to adjust after zeroing it on the rifle.

These same pellets perform well in my HW30s and HW50s. 

Out of curiosity, I want to open her up and see what is going on, it really doesn't happen to my other rifles: R1, HW97K, HW30s and HW50s, they all shoot quite accurately and I don't really need to keep clicking on the scope once they have been zeroed at 15 yards.

[Bayman]

1 or 2 shots in twenty with a 200 to 300 fps drop is a serious problem internally. That's providing you trust the chronograph. When you get a big drop in velocity does the gun feel or sound different? Do you smell burning oil or get smoke from the barrel? Try to see if the POI changes when this happens. Did you add any grease or oil to the gun through the transfer port on cocking slot? Sounds like your suspicions of a bad piston seal are probably correct. If you believe the chronograph the gun has to come apart.

[byhsu]

i didn't smell any dieseling. Only oil i've added is to the barrel lock latch.  It was not closing smoothly and twice i've put the rifle on the shooting bag and the barrel got open and i fired without knowing it. So that might have caused the problem to my seal.  Hence i plan to open up to check, while I have it open, want to do some maintenance besides replacing the seal.  So far, i've picked up that the ends of the spring should be polished. and the internals cleaned and then lube applied.  Other than that, I've heard of fitted guides added.  Might go with TBT spring guide and top hat.

At first i thought maybe the chrono misread the speed, but now that I see the POI go down 2 inches, sometimes, then must be the drop in velocity. I shoot at 15 yards and all my rifles are set to that distance.  I can pretty much hit a 1/2 inch target at that distance with all my rifles, and with the HW35, is very inconsistent, when I hit it, i think is because I am getting the full 800fps, when is 2 inches low might be the 300fps drop. 

[Bayman]

i didn't smell any dieseling. Only oil i've added is to the barrel lock latch.  It was not closing smoothly and twice i've put the rifle on the shooting bag and the barrel got open and i fired without knowing it. So that might have caused the problem to my seal. Hence i plan to open up to check, while I have it open, want to do some maintenance besides replacing the seal.  So far, i've picked up that the ends of the spring should be polished. and the internals cleaned and then lube applied.  Other than that, I've heard of fitted guides added.  Might go with TBT spring guide and top hat.

At first i thought maybe the chrono misread the speed, but now that I see the POI go down 2 inches, sometimes, then must be the drop in velocity. I shoot at 15 yards and all my rifles are set to that distance.  I can pretty much hit a 1/2 inch target at that distance with all my rifles, and with the HW35, is very inconsistent, when I hit it, i think is because I am getting the full 800fps, when is 2 inches low might be the 300fps drop.

I Haven’t shot a 35 but I'm assuming you accidentally fired it with the barrel unlocked and it popped open a bit? If that's what happened it would be similar firing without a pellet. When that happens it most often ruptures the seal. It's an unfortunate accident but we've all done stuff like this. I dry fired my 50 and blew up the seal when a loose fitting pellet fell out of the barrel unnoticed. I thought maybe I spazzed and didn't load it but when another pellet fell out it landed on the scope lens and made a noise so I noticed it. It was too late the seal was trashed the first time the pellet fell out unnoticed. As a side note the Vortek seals are significantly stronger than the original ones and may survive a dry fire or a little detonation. Inspect the faulty seal  carefully sometimes they have a little circular split that's hard to pick up but it'll go clean through the other side and is enough to cause major problems. Let us know what you find. Good luck.

[Mark 611]

JMO, if ur going to have the gun apart, I realize u think the factory spring does not have a bunch of shots on it, but they don't last long, a spring costs about $20 bucks for a good 1, in my experience sometimes no matter what u do to try and keep a factory spring from buzzing it just won't, and it u want to go that route, I would not waist my time on buying a better guide and top hat, I would just use the Ghetto tune method, using plastic from a pop bottle and a Delrin washer infront of the spring at the top of the piston, ur probably going to get the same results as the guide and top hat for the cost of a 50ct washer and a 2 Liter bottle of pop! I have used this method on many rifles until I was ready to spend the money to tune them correctly and it works just as good as the money ur getting ready to waist, Theirs no big trick to doing this Ghetto tune, its easy and costs less then $3 bucks!