215 FPE for a coon or a muskrat

[HunterWhite]

Thank you Thurmond for representing real airgun enthusiasts,  and thank you for responding to this thread.
Do you think that the new airgun rules are just?

I really would have liked to have attended the meeting.  I listened to the meeting online, but it's not the same as being there. I don't have big bore experience,  and a 7 hour drive each way, I just couldn't make it.

Hunter

[T3PRanch]

The original rule was just fine without any of the dual ft-lb / caliber minimum rules.

[HunterWhite]

I don't know the original rule.

Hunter

[Bullfrog]

I don't know the original rule.

Hunter

.30 and up for deer.  Possibly .20 and up for turkey but don’t quote me on that. No FPE minimum. Generally mimicking Alabama and Florida’s rule (and now Georgia’s).

[HunterWhite]

I could see it going back to that because law enforcement must have a method to verify that the hunters equipment is compliant. If they don't have that then the law is unenforceable.  If the game wardens need to buy muzzle speed meters, with traceable  calibration certification then it becomes a matter of economics.

Hunter

[enazle]

I am missing something here, where do you see that furbearers can only be taken with .215fpe airguns?
From Texas Means and Methods:

Air Guns and Arrow Guns

Alligator, game animals, furbearers, squirrels, and non-migratory game birds (except Eastern Turkey) may be hunted with air guns and arrow guns provided:

1. alligators, bighorn sheep, javelina, mule deer, white-tailed deer, pronghorn, and turkey (except Eastern Turkey) may be taken only with pre-charged pneumatic arrow guns, or pre-charged pneumatic air guns.
   a. pre-charged pneumatic air guns must fire a projectile of at least .30 caliber in diameter and at least 150 grains in weight with a minimum muzzle velocity of 800 feet per second or any combination of bullet weight and muzzle velocity that produces muzzle energy of at least 215 foot pounds of energy.

2.squirrels, pheasant, quail, and chachalaca may be hunted with air guns that fire a projectile of at least .177 caliber (4.5mm) in diameter producing a muzzle velocity of at least 600 feet per second.

3.arrows or bolts used with an arrow gun must conform to the same standards for projectiles for archery.
arrow guns may not be used to hunt deer or turkey during archery season.

[Bryan Heimann]

Look up the regs for nongame, non protected species.  All varmints fall into that category.

For varmint hunting in Texas (from collared doves to feral pigs) I am pretty sure that you can use “ANY MEANS OR METHODS”.

Only big game species requires the 215 fpe/30 cal minimum.  Turkeys and peccaries just happen to fall into the big game category.

[HunterWhite]

There ya go Ken, get out your airgun.
Sometimes the hunting and fishing laws are kinda confusing to me.

Hunter

[Bryan Heimann]

Also I feel that a 215 fpe and 30 cal minimum for deer is pretty dang conservative.  If you step up to 45 or 50 cal there are plenty of economical options that make 215 fpe.  To include the best known Korean single shots.  It’s like the law was set there just so you could use the light hunter and dragon claw, but allowed 30 caliber so you can use the Air Force Texan and other really hard hitting .30 caliber guns.

Not every Joe Schmoe that steps into the woods fully understands the need for a perfect broadside shot in the ribs to kill with an air rifle. 

Ever heard of a “Texas heart shot”?  I would not attempt that shot with the most powerful PCP rifle on the market.

The vast majority of Texas hunters don’t believe in head shooting anything.  Head movement and the potential to blow off a jaw or something makes it too worrisome. So for CNS shots a typical Texas hunter uses neck or high shoulder shot.  That high shoulder shot being the most common of all on deer.  I would never expect anything short of a .243 Winchester in both velocity AND energy to make it a high percentage kill shot.

I don’t know if an airgun has been built that can consistently anchor deer sized game with a high shoulder shot.  It’s either DRT or it’s long gone.

As far as personal beliefs, there are a lot of hunters in Texas that use 5.56 FMJ on pigs (because it is the cheapest and they have no respect for pigs) and a whole lot of hog doggers too.  I imagine most big bores with a good heavy slug would be a more humane option for pigs than either of those.


ANYWAY my point being, the 30 cal/215 fpe rules are for what is classified as “big game” in Texas.

For exotics and varmints you can use just about anything that will kill them.

Here is a fun fact- Elk are considered exotic species in Texas.  They have been considered extirpated for a long time.  They have been taken on Texas ranches with just a .30 cal FX air rifle... I know FX are not powerhouses.

At the same time there are elk herds in New Mexico that range deep into West Texas regularly.

[enazle]

I found it on the website under Texas Fur-bearing Means and Methods.  I wonder if it is actually written in the code or this is a someones interpretation? 
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/fur-bearing-animal-regulations/means-methods

Fur-thermore, pun intended, the regs add this:

Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person's land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.

So the above .30 cal limit is only limited to Fur Traders from my understanding.

[Bryan Heimann]

Ok minimum .30 cal for fur bearers.

Before this caveat I believe that fur bearers were Not yet airgun legal in Texas. 

Thanks for pointing that out.

FYI fur bearers are a separate category from the nongame non protected species.  Just because it has fur does not make it a fur bearer

[Bullfrog]

I had previously posted that I looked at the administrative code, which is the actual regs, and it appears all furbearers require .30 or up. Which seems to include coons and muskrats.

[Bryan Heimann]

In fact the closest to a Varmint I can think of in the list of fur bearers is the raccoon.  Possums skunks coyotes etc any means or methods

[Bullfrog]

All of that being said, I’m not sure that the 215fpe rule applies to furbearers in Texas. As I look at the Texas administrative code, it looks like the rule is that an airgun used to harvest furbearers must be .30 or larger. I don’t see where the FPE rule applies.

I presume coons and muskrats are furbearers and not game animals in Texas? The 215fpe rule applies to game animals. Such as turkeys (where it is demonstrated to be ridiculous).

No such caliber rules apply to hunting furbearers in Texas with firearms. The .30 rule was written specifically for airguns. So it cannot be said to be a leftover of an earlier rule.

See above.

[enazle]

I had previously posted that I looked at the administrative code, which is the actual regs, and it appears all furbearers require .30 or up. Which seems to include coons and muskrats.

Only if your a Fur Trader. Nuisance fur-bearing animals can be taken by any means. You just can't sell the pelts.

[Bryan Heimann]

No I believe that the 30 cal minimum is across the board for fur bearers.  Again, not all furry animals are “fur bearers”.

Also consider the difference between raccoon hunting or dispatching a nuisance. 

If you are in the woods hinting raccoons with a air rifle it better be .30 cal or above.  Regardless if you are a fur trader.
Dispatching a nuisance in your garden or trash is a different subject.  It is not even hunting, by the law.

[Bryan Heimann]

Travis my man I owe you and many other an apology.

Here is a link to fur bearers regs straight from TPWD:

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0065.pdf

Here is the definition of for bearer according to TPWD:

“Fur-bearing animals: badgers, beavers, fox, mink, muskrat, nutria, opossum, otters, raccoons, ring- tailed cats, skunks.”

Nuisance fur bearers regs:

“Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person’s land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.“

Even for nutria!  A nuisance by any definition in Texas.

No mention of air powered weapons anywhere in these regs.  You must find them under the regular hunting regs.

[Bullfrog]

Travis my man I owe you and many other an apology.

Here is a link to fur bearers regs straight from TPWD:

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0065.pdf

Here is the definition of for bearer according to TPWD:

“Fur-bearing animals: badgers, beavers, fox, mink, muskrat, nutria, opossum, otters, raccoons, ring- tailed cats, skunks.”

Nuisance fur bearers regs:

“Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person’s land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.“

Even for nutria!  A nuisance by any definition in Texas.

No mention of air powered weapons anywhere in these regs.  You must find them under the regular hunting regs.

Apology for what? I take what you’re saying to be the correct interpretation of Texas law. For general sport hunting, .30 and up for furbearers. No FPE minimum. For nuisance furbearers, any means may be used by the landowner or his agent. “Any means“ should include any air rifle. You just can’t keep the animal if out of season.

So if you are deer hunting on the lease and you decided to pop a coon with your air rifle, it better be a .30 you use if its not a legitimate nuisance and you aren’t the landowner’s agent. If the coon is raiding your chicken coop on your land behind the house, you can break out the .25 Condor. That’s the way I take the regs.

[Bryan Heimann]

Apology for my soapbox, lol.

Also apology for rolling my eyes when I just saw nutria on the furbearers list.

If you only knew the hassle we have had with the nutria at my mom’s place.

[enazle]

My interpretation of a nuisance racoon is one within 50 yards of my deer feeder. Matter of fact anything on that list is a nuisance in my book.