What caliber do you think is the most versatile?

[avator]

What caliber do you think is the most versatile? (You can specify twist rate also if you want to)

P.S. I'm still thinking about it......IMO being able to limit range and ricochet potential is an important consideration.

LMBO......
It always amazes me how far off topic folks take these threads just for the sake of argument.
Once again, read the original post. Heck I even made it simple with blue highlight. And this is, at least, the second time it was said. There is no absolute right or wrong general answer unless each of the responders are using the exact same guns for the exact same purposes. Even then it comes down to personal preferences. Or for that matter, individual gun preferences. Often times two of the exact same guns prefer different pellets. I certainly wouldn't think a pellet that my particular gun doesn't shoot well as 'versatile'.
I have guns in only 4 calibers, .177, .20, .22, and .25. How on Earth could I possible suggest any other caliber than one of these 4 calibers be more versatile for me?
LOL.... I don't need to defend my choice.

[triggertreat]

why did i subscribed to this thread?

now someones talking about lead balls and back spin while Manny is thin skinning people.

man, one of these days...ill give gta a rest

That's about the size of the GTA these days.

[Luis Leon]

I typically let insults slide... and it’s all good within the context of the thread... it is infotainment.

[rsterne]

Obviously, the only way backspin can be applied is if the ball fits loose enough in the bore that it isn't touching, or the friction would stop the rotation almost as soon as it had begun....

bob

[UnderPressure]

Obviously, the only way backspin can be applied is if the ball fits loose enough in the bore that it isn't touching, or the friction would stop the rotation almost as soon as it had begun....

bob

Yep, that is true and why a 6mm BB is actually 5.95mm +/- .01mm (examples here ---> https://www.pyramydair.com/product/we-precision-series-6mm-airsoft-bbs-0-36g-black-2-000-rds?p=1078 , https://www.airsoftmegastore.com/29147-g-and-g-0-25g-psbp-perfect-0-25mm-airsoft-bbs-3000rd-bag-gng-g-07-125 ) and the air soft smoothbore diameter is classically 6.08mm.

P.S. There is also something called "tightbore" airsoft barrel which has a smoothbore diameter of either 6.01mm or 6.03mm. (The rifled 6mm airsoft barrel I linked earlier is labeled 6.03mm (which is .237") but this is very likely the lands diameter as the purpose of the rifled barrels is not to engrave the BB)

[UnderPressure]

Obviously, the only way backspin can be applied is if the ball fits loose enough in the bore that it isn't touching, or the friction would stop the rotation almost as soon as it had begun....

bob

Yep, that is true and why a 6mm BB is actually 5.95mm +/- .01mm (examples here ---> https://www.pyramydair.com/product/we-precision-series-6mm-airsoft-bbs-0-36g-black-2-000-rds?p=1078 , https://www.airsoftmegastore.com/29147-g-and-g-0-25g-psbp-perfect-0-25mm-airsoft-bbs-3000rd-bag-gng-g-07-125 ) and the air soft smoothbore diameter is classically 6.08mm.

P.S. There is also something called "tightbore" airsoft barrel which has a smoothbore diameter of either 6.01mm or 6.03mm. (The rifled 6mm airsoft barrel I linked earlier is labeled 6.03mm (which is .237") but this is very likely the lands diameter as the purpose of the rifled barrels is not to engrave the BB)

The Apex 2 Paintball tip (mentioned in reply #196---> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=175694.msg155988621#msg155988621) doesn't apply backspin until the ball has left the barrel.....so the ball could be sized to the barrel in that case.

[UnderPressure]

Backspin will make the trajectory flat over some useful range, but it won't make any given shot accurate.  Nor the next one.

How would one impart backspin to a lead ball?  By means of a sharp "speedbump" at the muzzle perhaps.  The end of the barrel would need to be raised or bent up slightly, to offset the downwards reaction from running into the speedbump.  The round ball will suffer considerable damage from running into the speedbump.

The problem here is that a plastic sphere is very strong for the change in momentum induces force required to induce backspin.  Lead is heavy and soft, so the change in momentum to impart that spin will take so much force that the lead is deformed significantly.

Perhaps a curved smoothbore tube, that is formed as part of a down-pointing spiral could be used.  It would roll a lead sphere more gently and use friction against the upper wall to roll the ball.  You might have better results with a steel ball....

Here is someone that used magnets on the top of his .177 BB shooter as a means to not only flatten trajectory but also increase accuracy:

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/05/can-a-common-bb-gun-be-accurate/#comment-346629

Bought a Daisy Grizzly just for plinking but was astounded at the lack of accuracy. Watching the BBs fly was like watching Phil Niekro pitch. I was looking at a 1 foot pattern at 50′. I measured the bore: .230 so I started to think about sleeves and there is off the shelf precision tubing that would bring that down to .187 with an OD of .25… Then I started thinking about a magnetic ring to maybe center the shot?…It then occurred to me that pulling the shot to the top of the barrel might solve the problem. If I could get the BBs to roll out the top side of the barrel it would straighten out the shot and put a back spin on the BB thereby leveling out the arc as well (similar to a softballers rise pitch) I had a bunch of fairly powerful button magnets (1/8″ dia x 1/16″) which I lined up on the top of the barrel 3/8 of an inch center to center. Now It’s shooting less than 1″patterns at 50′ at a much flatter trajectory. Those magnets are just taped there now but I’l be breaking out the epoxy soon.

Maybe this could be a relatively cheap and reversible mod for a Seneca Wingshot or Double shot?

[subscriber]

Russ,

I think for an external magnet to "see"  a steel BB inside the barrel to apply the rotational friction, the barrel needs to be non-magnetic, and thin walled.  So, steel is out; unless you somehow magnetize only the upper "strip" of the barrel.

My concern is the amount of blowby you will get from a ball that is so loose that it makes contact only with the "friction" side of the barrel.  Even more importantly; loose fitting projectiles are anathema to "accuracy".  So, perhaps a short tight section at the muzzle would be required (that does not brake out all the rotation you battled to induce). While clever and all, how much velocity can one get from such a system, using ball of sufficient weight to do more than puncture paper?

This thread started with you asking for the most versatile caliber.  While some might lament the scope drifting away from that, tolerating such drift is how new ideas are spawned.  For instance; what if you used the principle that applying a vacuum to a barrel before shooting, enables much higher velocities at lower driving pressures?  How do you like 2500 FPS delivered by 80 PSI input pressure? (third video below)

Yes, this is more of a lab arrangement, than something to keep the wolves at bay.  But since this thread has taken a turn, so to speak; perhaps more turns can't hurt:









https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=supersonic+ping+pong+ball+

[anti-squirrel]

The theoretical versatility of the .30 and above calibers in airguns are vast. But how many shooters are actually plinking at sub 12 FPE? And then taking out sparrows, and then finally an elephant with an airbolt? Covering the vast range with one caliber? In theory yes, in a practical sense not so much. In a general sense I believe that the .22 is most versatile (price, variety, availability). At some point a powder burner does make more sense.

Hahahaha, moving the goal posts
ok let's play that game.

So now is, ho yes .30 and .357 are more versatile, but who does really use them ? it's not practical !!!!!! LOL .....I do, as I've shown you I target practice in the yard, I take squirrel sized game and I don't have elephants but I hunt the biggest toughest game I have around and if I had bigger I would do to.

falling back to ..." Ho well at a certain point just bust out the firearms " as got nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Also as much as I search, .......price, variety, availability doesn't show up in the definition of "Versatility" LOL

Yeah bit of a moving goal post there, price, variety have nothing to do with the original question.

It’s not moving the goal post. How can a PCP caliber be versatile if it’s too expensive to shoot regularly? Hundreds of rounds per week or more?  Or not available locally? Offers less choices in projectiles?

I guess my friend you just have cotton in your ears and ham on your eyes LOL

But carry on, it's actually kinda funny,...LOL

The only one with cotton in the ears and ham on the eyes is the one getting nasty about it.

It’s just a discussion and if you get butthurt or wanna insult someone for a different opinion maybe you need to grow up a little.

Thread titled “what caliber DO YOU THINK is most versatile.”

We all know “YOU THINK” the .357 is the most versatile.  No need to bully anyone with a different opinion.

Do you even realize that he's only argument for caliber versatility is cost of ammo LOL

So yeah it's getting kinda funny,..and if you think that's bullying, my friend you got thin skin

Yes, Manny my ONLY point has been cost of ammo? Really? Then you are not reading. From sparrows to small hogs with a .22 with abundantly available ammo choices at good prices. Not knocking the thirty... for a high percentage of backyard shooters in small lots. It’s impractical to lob .30s in close proximity to neighbors, houses, etc. Are you killing pigs everyday? No. Same here I hunt and pests, but not everyday. I do shoot almost everyday. I couldn’t afford to shoot a .30 everyday... that makes it less versatile to me in a practical sense.

So Luis, your take on versatility means it must be economical to shoot, so you are exerting your own bias on the definition of versatility I mention earlier in this thread.  That's perfectly in line with the OP's post: "which caliber to you think..."

Manny takes a wider stance without exerting bias- simply postulating his own view as per versatility meaning exactly what the definition means: covering the most bases for a shooting caliber. 

My own take on this subject is that the .25 should be more versatile except the .25 bolts never materialized, and given the results of recent long range competitions, .25 has given way to .30.  Anybody arguing that .30 is too large misses the point that the .30 pellets are superb short range pesting rounds and will not over-penetrate.  This in fact i one reason I prefer larger caliber with slower velocity over smaller caliber with higher velocity for pesting.  It also refutes my stance that .25 wadcutters need re-releasing outside of molds/cast.  Larger projectiles may cost more, but when they move slower they have much less chance of over-penetration, a critical factor for people who manage pests in suburban area such as myself. 

Since this is an entirely subjective conversation given the verbiage "what caliber do you..." versus "what is the most versatile", claims can be made about any caliber strictly thanks to power level adjustments.

But, strictly from the non-biased "most versatile" as per the definition, the caliber options that take pellets, bullets, slugs, and bolts are the most versatile simply because they can do things the smaller bores cannot with a wider range IE: more diverse selection of projectiles.  More options = more versatility

[Luis Leon]

@antisquirrel, my take on versatility is that I can shoot any particular caliber enough to stay proficient with it. That said, yes I couldn’t afford to shoot thousands of .30 caliber pellets per year. So the economics of shooting does factor in, but is not the prevailing factor. Ammo choice and local availability are other factors. So the .30 should an airgunners’ first choice because it oh so versatile?

[AlanMcD]

Luis,

You answered your own question - each individual airgunner should buy whatever fits their needs the best.  Versatility is not likely to be much of a factor in that, unless the airgunner in question has lots of needs and has to fill them with only one air gun.

If an airgunner only wants to shoot 10M pistol, that pretty well defines what they should buy.  But would any of us here think that person bought the most versatile gun (as opposed to just the caliber)? Answer: probably not.  Or that they made a mistake because they bought what they did? Answer: probably not.

I for one came in thinking the most versatile caliber was the .22, but now agree it is probably the .35 - but that said I will probably never buy a .35 as it is not the "best" at any of the needs that I have, and I have no needs for any of the things that it is "best" at (and like you affordability of purchased ammo could be a factor for me).  Could I tune one to do some of what I need it to do - sure.  After all, it is a very versatile caliber ( ).  But why would I buy it when it is not the best fit for me.

Best fit and most versatile are not synonymous . . .

[anti-squirrel]

@antisquirrel, my take on versatility is that I can shoot any particular caliber enough to stay proficient with it. That said, yes I couldn’t afford to shoot thousands of .30 caliber pellets per year. So the economics of shooting does factor in, but is not the prevailing factor. Ammo choice and local availability are other factors. So the .30 should an airgunners’ first choice because it oh so versatile?

No.

Buy what fits your needs.  This is something I stress assertively every single time I see any thread on any forums about "which gun and which caliber should I buy?".  Literally every single thread with this topic, this is the first thing I spew from my mouth (from my fingertips?).  BUY THE TOOL THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS.  Not "buy what everybody else thinks you need"

Alan's post sums it up perfectly.


further; I can run hot-shooting .22 slugs out of my Leshiy and I guarantee it will drop any medium size game.  I can tune down my Leshiy in .22 so it floats wadcutters with superb accuracy at 20 yards.

However, .22 is not the most versatile because bolts are not available.  Bolts would allow me to take any game on this continent (were it legal).  Bolts/arrows offer the ability to harvest much large game, yet can be used with pellets at muchn lower tunes.  Sure, you can do it with .22 except you can't cuz no arrows in .22.  IE: not as versatile.  As soon as you say "for my needs" you put your own requirement on the caliber choice, whereas if you leave your personal needs out, it becomes clear that the larger bores can be tuned up or down, just like smaller bores, but the larger bores also offer 1 extra type of projectile, hence increasing versatility as per the commonly-accepted definition of versatility: the ability to be useful in more circumstances.

I'm not knocking the sheer versatility of the .22 caliber, but- based on the definition of versatility, the larger bores are clearly more versatile.

[Bryan Heimann]

@antisquirrel, my take on versatility is that I can shoot any particular caliber enough to stay proficient with it. That said, yes I couldn’t afford to shoot thousands of .30 caliber pellets per year. So the economics of shooting does factor in, but is not the prevailing factor. Ammo choice and local availability are other factors. So the .30 should an airgunners’ first choice because it oh so versatile?

No.

Buy what fits your needs.  This is something I stress assertively every single time I see any thread on any forums about "which gun and which caliber should I buy?".  Literally every single thread with this topic, this is the first thing I spew from my mouth (from my fingertips?).  BUY THE TOOL THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS.  Not "buy what everybody else thinks you need"

Alan's post sums it up perfectly.


further; I can run hot-shooting .22 slugs out of my Leshiy and I guarantee it will drop any medium size game.  I can tune down my Leshiy in .22 so it floats wadcutters with superb accuracy at 20 yards.

However, .22 is not the most versatile because bolts are not available.  Bolts would allow me to take any game on this continent (were it legal).  Bolts/arrows offer the ability to harvest much large game, yet can be used with pellets at muchn lower tunes.  Sure, you can do it with .22 except you can't cuz no arrows in .22.  IE: not as versatile.  As soon as you say "for my needs" you put your own requirement on the caliber choice, whereas if you leave your personal needs out, it becomes clear that the larger bores can be tuned up or down, just like smaller bores, but the larger bores also offer 1 extra type of projectile, hence increasing versatility as per the commonly-accepted definition of versatility: the ability to be useful in more circumstances.

I'm not knocking the sheer versatility of the .22 caliber, but- based on the definition of versatility, the larger bores are clearly more versatile.

So if you had to settle for one gun to fit all your needs, it would be a big bore?

[Nomadic Pirate]

@antisquirrel, my take on versatility is that I can shoot any particular caliber enough to stay proficient with it. That said, yes I couldn’t afford to shoot thousands of .30 caliber pellets per year. So the economics of shooting does factor in, but is not the prevailing factor. Ammo choice and local availability are other factors. So the .30 should an airgunners’ first choice because it oh so versatile?

By your own metrics the most versatile is the .17 cal then,.....why you been arguing for the .22 this all time ? LOL

[Bryan Heimann]

I think .22 definitely falls in line with the cost and availability of ammo.

I still see the versatility of the .357 though.  It is undeniable.

But if I personally gave up all my Airguns for one .357, it would hardly see the light of day.  I have no use for it.  So how versatile would it be in my home?

I would bet, anyone that picks .22 over the .357 probably looks at it the same way I do.  Personally I still am kind of unsure.

The bolts are a game changer for sure.  If we could get a .30 bolt you could hunt deer with a  Hatsan 135 carnivore. 

Manny how much FPE does a typical long bow put down?  Ballpark of 30 or so isn’t it?

[Nomadic Pirate]

I have never looked at FPE in bows, but my Bows shoot average 160 fps with a 600gr arrow -/+ in that ball park and will put down any Game in North america,...any.

Yes this debate isn't what you are more likely to buy or need,

it's an objective subject outside of personal subjectivity.

By the way, my favorite caliber over all is .25 and I think it's the one I killed the most hogs with.
......just bough an other .25 and should have it in not to long

[Bryan Heimann]

Well if it does not suit your needs how can you say it is versatile?

Versatility is purely personal and subjective, and the main reason this discussion has gone this far. 

.357 might be most versatile for one man and more versatile for hunting overall.  But for one who has zero use for it, it has zero versatility.  If you have no use for something, it is exactly the opposite of versatile!

If versatility means it has multiple uses, and you can’t use it for much if anything... just saying.

If we could get those .25 air bolts I think it would cost PA too much in gun sales.   I bet that is why they never came out in production.

[avator]

Well if it does not suit your needs how can you say it is versatile?

Versatility is purely personal and subjective, and the main reason this discussion has gone this far. 

.357 might be most versatile for one man and more versatile for hunting overall.  But for one who has zero use for it, it has zero versatility.  If you have no use for something, it is exactly the opposite of versatile!

If versatility means it has multiple uses, and you can’t use it for much if anything... just saying.

If we could get those .25 air bolts I think it would cost PA too much in gun sales.   I bet that is why they never came out in production.

HOLY SHIZNIT !!! I actually agree with Bryan?   lol   

[Nomadic Pirate]

The Idea is to figure out which one is the most versatile caliber going by the criteria of the term versatile,.....if you start plugging in personal needs/wants/ preferences,
 then someone can come out and say the most versatile is the .50 and he would have the same weight arguing that then someone arguing for the .17

[anti-squirrel]

@antisquirrel, my take on versatility is that I can shoot any particular caliber enough to stay proficient with it. That said, yes I couldn’t afford to shoot thousands of .30 caliber pellets per year. So the economics of shooting does factor in, but is not the prevailing factor. Ammo choice and local availability are other factors. So the .30 should an airgunners’ first choice because it oh so versatile?

No.

Buy what fits your needs.  This is something I stress assertively every single time I see any thread on any forums about "which gun and which caliber should I buy?".  Literally every single thread with this topic, this is the first thing I spew from my mouth (from my fingertips?).  BUY THE TOOL THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS.  Not "buy what everybody else thinks you need"

Alan's post sums it up perfectly.


further; I can run hot-shooting .22 slugs out of my Leshiy and I guarantee it will drop any medium size game.  I can tune down my Leshiy in .22 so it floats wadcutters with superb accuracy at 20 yards.

However, .22 is not the most versatile because bolts are not available.  Bolts would allow me to take any game on this continent (were it legal).  Bolts/arrows offer the ability to harvest much large game, yet can be used with pellets at muchn lower tunes.  Sure, you can do it with .22 except you can't cuz no arrows in .22.  IE: not as versatile.  As soon as you say "for my needs" you put your own requirement on the caliber choice, whereas if you leave your personal needs out, it becomes clear that the larger bores can be tuned up or down, just like smaller bores, but the larger bores also offer 1 extra type of projectile, hence increasing versatility as per the commonly-accepted definition of versatility: the ability to be useful in more circumstances.

I'm not knocking the sheer versatility of the .22 caliber, but- based on the definition of versatility, the larger bores are clearly more versatile.

So if you had to settle for one gun to fit all your needs, it would be a big bore?

One gun?  Very good question.   The question is, what are my needs versus what were my needs when I made the first PCP purchase.  My needs have changed over the last 4 years, from strictly bird and squirrel management to now having the ability to go anywhere and harvest as desired whatever I need.  I typically go for the most versatile tool, which means caliber versatility is overshadowed by the versatility of the platform.  If I liked the ergonomics of bottle guns, I would more than likely have sprung for an Impact since it is arguably one of the most versatile platforms.  However, the Gamo big-bore  (Winchester .35 and .45) are quite appealing, quite tunable, and quite affordable.  I intend to purchase the TS-35 Winchester (along with a Leshiy 2) at some point next year, so...

So the short answer RE: would I have choosen a big-bore: if my funds allowed for it when I got back into airguns, yes.  In fact, I would have sought out something in .35 that is easily adjusted way down for paper and squirrel or way up for making holes in Bambi.  Such a gun now exists (though it did not back then): the EdGun Leshiy, which I own.  However, the .30 and .35 barrels must be ordered from overseas.  I was tempted to order the Bulldog in .357 but my budget back then precluded such a purchase.  Now I have a Leshiy with the ability to tune ad infinitum including barrel-swapping.  So instead of opting for just the most versatile barrel, I decided upon the most versatile single-shot carbine.

If the Sumatra was available in .35, came shrouded, and still had the power wheel, I have no doubt in my mind I'd own one and probably wouldn't look any further.  Since it does not, I won't.  And yet the Leshiy does.  It is not capable of the sheer power, but it will manage just fine and can still be tuned way down.  The gentleman who operates the EDGunLeshiy channel on YouTube regularly used a 9mm (.35) barrel on his Leshiy for pesting, from chipmunks all the way up to raccoon and larger.  His channel did influence my decision-making paradigm, since I too ama  firm believer in "larger and slower" versus "smaller and faster" when it comes to projectiles, and the sheer capability of the Leshiy platform in all calibers is more appealing than simply choosing one caliber for versatility.  But this again is my own personal bias toward choosing platform versatility over caliber versatility.  If a Leshiy can handle every caliber from .177 through .35, that means it has all the benefits of versatility for each caliber.

Now- I have ordered a .25 barrel for my Leshiy as it stands, since, like Manny, it suits my current needs, keeping in mind I'm not going deer hunting with an airgun.  If I was, I'd own a Benjamin Bulldog or the TS-35. 

Versatility is not the same as meeting my needs.  Versatility means the most useful for all needs, not just my own.  If you need to get to the store, a pick-up truck is far more versatile depending what you're buying.  Cement?  Lumber?  Groceries?  But if all you're hauling is a few 12s of beer or some steaks, a Smart Car will certainly meet your needs and do so far more economically (meaning with much better gas mileage).  But the pick-up is still more versatile, meaning it can do more over a wider range of capabilities.

So you folks wanting to drive your Smart Car airguns keep doing that.  Those who need mini-van airguns (such as myself with my Leshiy) or prefer using big-bore Pick-Up truck airguns do what you need.  As long as your own personal needs are met, versatility will simply be determined by EITHER the definition OR by your own personal bias.  It is both subjective and objective

I definitely agree with the .25 air-bolts.  If those came to fruition, I think everybody would be clamoring for 'em!