Author Topic: Is a .25 cal considered a big bore???? (Read 13339 times))

Johnny Quest · « **on:** August 20, 2011, 12:29:08 AM »

Just checkin cuz I wanna play over here also....

rsterne · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:44:09 AM »

Not according to the description on the Forum.... but WTH do I know.... I think others post about them here on occassion....

Bob

Johnny Quest · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:48:26 AM »

WELL I'll call Gene tommorow and get that crud changed......

I'm building a .243 right now and thats not a small bore.....

joe k · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:56:54 AM »

.243 is a nice bore.
joe

rsterne · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:18:12 AM »

GO Johnny GO!!!

Bob

Tpatner412 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:31:36 AM »

I would say by the definition of Tom Gaylord and other writers no. They consider .25 and under to be small bore. That being said I think maybe an FPE limit should be put on it. Like anything over 80 FPE is considered big bore because the only PCP insmall bore that can do that are .25 that I know of

Butcher45 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:50:13 AM »

Caliber-wise.....nope. Bigbore Airguns don't shoot pellets, and .25caliber is a well-established "pellet gun" caliber. Lot's of .25 springers out there.

Performance-wise......well a .25 Sumatra or Condor is the starting line where airguns start to get really, really POWERFUL compared to a "regular" .22 or .177, and .25 is the caliber where boolit-type projectiles start to harness the power, and make more sense than skirted pellets.

Big Bore=.308-and-up makes sense to me.....but the powerful .25 is definitely the "Gateway" caliber to the world of bigbore airguns (no pun intended hehe). I think a .25 Sumatra, or old-school .25 Career holds a special place of it's own (it is "The" medium bore), and will do anything a .22lr will do but usually with better accuracy from what my friends that enjoy them tell me.

It will make more sense once more people start using .270, .284, 7mm etc barrels on their AirForce rifles.

JonnyReb · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:59:44 AM »

I agree with Tyler, they should rate it by ftlbs maybe. If you were to hold one of jerry's 6 ring .25 slugs or another 60gr.+
"pellets" you would definitely not see it as a smallbore, it's a serious chunk of lead! Throw it out of a worked rifle at 900fps and you have a powerful combination no doubt but i guess it never really can be technically classified as BB. That said if you can get up some kinda petition or something Johnny i'll gladly sign it

melloroadman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2011, 02:23:46 AM »

It once was but is no longer . But it sure is fun to shoot .Marvin
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,13083.msg110870.html#msg110870

lloyd-ss · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2011, 10:05:17 AM »

If the gauge is FPE, I had a butt-ugly powerful .25 cal set-up about 3 years ago. Just don't ask me about air usage or accuracy. I didn't have any of these nice heavy bullets I'm seeing here now.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,12886.0.html

Lloyd

melloroadman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2011, 11:11:31 AM »

Lloyd that was good . Some day I am going to have to try 3200psi and see what happens may be . Still not at the top of the curve . But I don't want to push the Korean to far either . Marvin

melloroadman · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2011, 11:37:30 AM »

Lloyd In truth you have already done what I have been told my AR builders can not be done .But I could not except their response . My theory is if a PB can make a bullet accurate at super sonic so can air . Not a pellet but a bullet . Yes it must pass far enough past the barrier to be stable long enough to be efficient but the rules are the same . These objects are none thinking and not altered by the nature of their power . How fast do you think a AR can push a bullet ? I know you did not do accuracy testing but that is on me or who ever . And the bullet is on me or who ever . But with the limits we have on psi as of today what are your thoughts .Marvin

rsterne · « **Reply #12 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:15:16 PM »

Lloyd has shown that a .25 cal can hit about the same energy as a .22 LR.... ~140 FPE.... IMO to warrant discussion in this forum if the gun isn't over .25 cal then it should be over ~150 FPE.... Let's face it, if it doesn't have more power than a .22 LR it ain't "Big Bore".... JMHO....

Bob

rsterne · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:32:46 PM »

Since this topic is heading off track anyway, here is some food for thought.... The average speed of air molecules at 70*F is 1645 fps.... That is the velocity they have when colliding with each other and the walls of a container.... In theory, therefore, it should be impossible to exceed that velocity for a column of expanding air in a parallel tube (eg a barrel).... In order to expand, each molecule has to get "whacked" by one behind it.... That would indicate a theoretical upper "speed limit" for a PCP because at that velocity the molecules of air cannot move any faster.... and therefore cannot provide any additional force on the bullet/pellet.... NOTE, we're talking air here, not Helium.... different gasses have different molecular velocities.... Since the velocity goes up with temperature, we are also not talking about Springers where the compression of the air adds heat.... This is strictly for PCPs working by expanding the air to propel the bullet/pellet....

Sounds plausible, right?.... I mean look up the molecular velocity yourself and try and present a possible method by which any pellet can be propelled faster than 1645 fps by expanding air.... I couldn't come up with one.... so I started a thread on this a few months ago.... All the engineers and physicists who chimed in agreed that 1645 fps should, in theory at least, be the maximum speed anyone could get with a PCP (at 70*F)....

Wouldn't you know it that some smart alec with a .177 Condor would crank the power wheel to the top, put in the plastic sabot (only) from an RWS Hypervelocity pellet (it weighed about 1 grain).... and managed to get 1715 fps....

Oh well, so much for theory....

Bob

Johnny Quest · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:46:21 PM »

Guys this is all good info... But a .243 ain't a standard over the counter .25 AR.
It should be accepted and reveled upon by the BB guys....

melloroadman · « **Reply #15 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:56:41 PM »

I under stand JQ But we still do not fit the terminology of BB . Energy wise knocking on the door . But caliber size we are not . Marvin

Butcher45 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:04:04 PM »

It's big bore, not big fpe. We are talking about bore size when speaking bigbore, and the .25 bore size just doesn't qualify as being "big".

The .25 is a medium bore (even when shooting slugs rather than pellets)........why confuse the issue by denying it it's true identity, and trying to make it something it's not?

.25 is an awesome caliber no question, but a bigbore it is not.

Johnny Quest · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:07:04 PM »

It started out a crosman 2400, And is not anything close to one now... HPA 2000 PSI fill. It will only achieve about 25fpe. But thats a big bore for a rat killer.....

here: the stainless 18" .243 barrel is in the mail

Johnny Quest · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:08:51 PM »

Am I buggin ya'll yet... lol

only1harry · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:56:25 PM »

Well .243 is smaller than a Condor's or Sumatra's 0.251" slugs or pellets so if .243 can be classified as big bore, so can .25 cal. I can get 110-120fpe with my .25 Condor using Jerry's Barnes 70-80gr 0.251 and 0.252" slugs.

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Is a .25 cal considered a big bore????

Author Topic: Is a .25 cal considered a big bore???? (Read 13339 times))