Expected Accuracy from NP Airguns? What am I doing wrong?

[tektrixter]

What groups are "normal" for a NP springer in 22 caliber? I've seen everything from people saying it's no good past 20 yards, to people claiming to hit dimes at 40 yards.

I got a Crosman nitro Venom a few months ago. So far I've replaced the scope (with an airgun rated one) and done the RC bearing trigger mod. I still cant manage to keep good groups at 10 or 20 yards from a bench (folding table, stack of wood, rolled sock at top for a bit of give). I'm getting around 1 inch groups at 10 yards and 3-4 inch groups at 20 yards. Sometimes I'll get a good grouping for a few shots, then its all over the place again. Seems to do better at first, then get worse as I shoot more. If I take it out a few hours later it works well for a while again.

I'm experienced with rim fire 22s and have an expert rifle badge form the Marines (a couple of decades ago!) so I know the marksmanship basics and researched airgun specifics. I've tried several variations of the artillery hold, but seems to do better with a light bit of pressure into my shoulder. The front of the airgun is resting just in front of the balance point. I'm using a pellet setter to ensure consistent depth. I've tried a few different cans of pellets (Daisy pointed, Benjamin Destroyers, Crosman Premier pointed, Daisy hollow point) and none seem to work well.

I've read that a lot of the inexpensive airguns have bad piston seals from the factory, could that be the issue? I've noticed that I get a white buildup around the breach seal after shooting, does that indicate anything?

[mobilehomer]

First, except for follow through and trigger control, forget everything you know from rimfires. The big thing is consistency in hold location. Most break barrels prefer about an inch in front of the trigger guard. Even a quarter inch difference will affect the group. And practice, practice, practice!!! When I first got mine I could hold about an inch and a half at twenty yards. After several hundred shots, the group started shrinking. Then I started getting 3/8" or so at twenty. It takes time and lots of pellets. But, you will get there.

[longhunter]

Try this. Hold the fore end by placing your thumb and forefinger in the stock bolt recesses. Let the gun rest in your palm, centering the cocking lever slot on the " ball ", that is the first joint of your index finger. Rest your hand on the sock. Adjust the amount of grip, on the fore end, as necessary.
Also, keep your thumb on top of the wrist, of the stock. ( this keeps you from torqueing the rifle, as you grip the stock ). I had two different nitro venom dusks that would give me one slightly ragged hole groups, at 15 yards.
I also shoot consistent 1/2" groups, at 40 yds., with a Diana 98k, using the same basic hold.

[Roadworthy]

You've seen some good advice there.  My Nitro Venom was good for 3/4" five shot groups at twenty yards but that must have been me because with practice I got it to 1/2" groups.  Realize that when you pull the trigger the recoil begins but the pellet hasn't moved.  By the time the pellet exits the barrel the gun is no longer pointing where it started. That is why a consistent hold is critical.  For the barrel to end up at the same point at the instant of pellet exit Everything leading up to it must be the same.  The trigger must be pulled smoothly straight back the same way every time.  I don't know about the trigger mod or how hard your trigger is to pull.  I got the GRT III from charliedatuna.com and was impressed with the change.  Later I got an NP2 trigger pack, tweaked it a bit, and liked it a WHOLE lot better.  If you have not yet cleaned your barrel I recommend you do so.  Check the crown though the Nitro Venom crown is pretty well protected.  Be sure stock and scope screws are snug.  Practice, practice, practice.

[fv22]

All the pellets you mentioned that you tried will not shoot good at all through my Benjamin Trail NP. Experiment with a lot more different pellets. Mine shoots best with H&N FTT 5.54. That doesn't mean yours will but they're worth trying. Try different  H&N's, JSB's, etc. With more practice of shooting these abominations and finding the right pellet you might find it shoots half way decent. On the other hand you might get sick of it and get a different type of air gun altogether!

[jentry]

I have the same advice as others, so I agree with what's being said: artillery hold and 5.53+ pellets.

Once I figured out it didn't like being shot from a rest and put some H&N FTT 5.53mm pellets through it, I could make five shots touch.

I can send some 5.53s if you need them.

[GarthThomas]

Dont pull it tight to your shoulder

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

There are exceptions to the rule. My MTR77 likes to be held firm and tight. I am not saying the artillery hold is not best for most, just don't rule out trying something else if it doesn't work with that rifle.

[xtred1]

It looks like Rick had the same problem with that gun. Is this the same gun?

[DanD]

I recommend H&N Field Target Trophy 5.53 pellets out of a clean barrel.
They shot well in my two .22 NPs.

[superchikn]

There are exceptions to the rule. My MTR77 likes to be held firm and tight. I am not saying the artillery hold is not best for most, just don't rule out trying something else if it doesn't work with that rifle.

Have to agree, don't rule anything out.  I have guns that like loose hold and ones that like tight hold.
The pellets you listed are at the low end of the spectrum, I'll say quality wise.  Although they may shoot well for some guns, and some in your list do for me, but there are many more worthwhile pellets to try.  Personally i have not found pointed pellets to be worth a darn in any of my guns.
My Summit Ranger shoots JSB 14.xx domes the best, dimes and nickels at 30 yds.  Some other pellets will come close, but those are best in my gun.
Don't give up.
Even if in the end you find this gun does not fit your needs the journey is absolutely worthwhile!

[mac]

I have a Crosman Vantage (same as yours with a different stock), Crosman Optimus and a Benjiman np2. The two Crosman guns have to be held loosely with just my thumb of the trigger hand resting on top of the grip. Like everyone said consistency is key and what takes practice. All three of mine also won’t shoot any of the pellets you listed worth a darn but they all shoot the Winchester domes pellets real good and crosman domed pellets pretty good. I’m going to have to give the H&N 5.53 a try.

[mikeyb]

With very few exceptions, the pellets you listed have TERRIBLE accuracy in my break barrel rifles.

I think you need to test some more pellets. Every break barrel rifle, even two of the SAME model, will have its own set of preferred pellets for best accuracy.

As others have mentioned, almost everything learned about shooting powder burners accurately will be need to be unlearned when shooting break barrel air rifles.

When you feel and respond to powder burner recoil the projectile has already left the muzzle. A break barrel air rifle (coil spring or gas spring powered) does a double recoil dance with vibrations that you react to BEFORE the pellet leaves the muzzle. Any tiny movement before the pellet leaves the muzzle will provide shotgun pattern groups. Proper hold and follow-through consistency are as critical as proper pellet selection.

I started shooting break barrels late 2017. My best groupings were over 1" at 30'. After learning the proper hold for the rifle and about 6 months PRACTICE (2000+ pellets), my groups shrunk to 3/4" -1" at 30'. Now I'm down to 3/8"-1/2" groups (10 shots) at 30'. Practice (lots of it) and good pellet selection are the key.

[tektrixter]

Thanks for the advise everyone. Over the 500+ pellets I've shot so far I've attempted several variations of the artillery hold, but will try the ones you guys suggested too. I've been trying the pellets I can get locally first, but it looks like I'll need to get better ones. Is the "Straight Shooters Pellet Sampler .22 Caliber" a good option (I'm too new to post the direct link)?

My goal is to get groups inside a quarter at 20-25yds (squirrel head shots), which sounds like it shouldn't be hard once I find the right hold and pellets.

[jentry]

Thanks for the advise everyone. Over the 500+ pellets I've shot so far I've attempted several variations of the artillery hold, but will try the ones you guys suggested too. I've been trying the pellets I can get locally first, but it looks like I'll need to get better ones. Is the "Straight Shooters Pellet Sampler .22 Caliber" a good option (I'm too new to post the direct link)?

My goal is to get groups inside a quarter at 20-25yds (squirrel head shots), which sounds like it shouldn't be hard once I find the right hold and pellets.

I think several of those pellets are too heavy for your gun, so I wouldn't waste time. I have some H&N FTT 5.53mm and 5.54mm pellets you're welcome too. Send me a PM with address, and I'll ship this week.

If you really want to know if you're existing pellets are engaging your barrel well, recover a few and check the rifling. If it's shallow, the pellets may be more of the problem than your technique.

[Eddie_E]

I have the synthetic version of that rifle and mine was a but fussy at first too.
The first thing that I'm sure of is tight to the shoulder will cause vertical stringing for sure. Try pulling gently into the shoulder and then let the gun relax forward off the shoulder to a natural relaxed spot. This works better with the front artillery hold.

 Crosman NP barrels will have a break-in period of 600 shot's or so before the it reaches it's final accuracy. Shooting a tin of hard pellets helps and ironically, GTO 11.75 gr (approximately 5.52~5.53 mm)are my most accurate pellet, even after break-in. Crosman CPHP vary a bit on sizing, but they are OK after break-in. JSB 18's are a little better than the CPHP's up to 40 yds, then they start to spiral at55 yds, but I think the H&N FTT 14.66 gr are better over all out of the lead pellets.

I assume you already put blue loctite on the forearm stock screws and the rear trigger guard screw.

[profsrgary]

Thanks for the advise everyone. Over the 500+ pellets I've shot so far I've attempted several variations of the artillery hold, but will try the ones you guys suggested too. I've been trying the pellets I can get locally first, but it looks like I'll need to get better ones. Is the "Straight Shooters Pellet Sampler .22 Caliber" a good option (I'm too new to post the direct link)?

My goal is to get groups inside a quarter at 20-25yds (squirrel head shots), which sounds like it shouldn't be hard once I find the right hold and pellets.

Wayne I have found that when I get any new rifle I try to find the spot on the stock where the rifle is perfectly balanced. I put the tip of my index finger in the cocking arm cutout. If I have to ad a little weight to make things work I will. Two years and 20,000 shots through my Gamo Mach 1 and I have gone from shooting 1.5" at 12 yards to shooting a pellet into the target for a poa and then shooting through that pellet hole. You have had excellent advice given but if you are like me you need some proof so here is my suggestion. TRY to shoot poor groups by changing holds and you will see just what hold makes you shoot right or left as well as up and down. Trigger finger placement as well as thumb pressure will change poi. Now what I say next will raise some eyebrows but here goes. I have hunted squirrels all of my  life. I got interested in air guns because of houses popping up in areas I hunted and I was passing up shots on squirrels in trees. This is my opinion after shooting squirrels with a Mrod 22 cal for 2 seasons. I take no head shots. While a 22 cal hv hollow point rimfire will devastate a squirrel head a 22 cal pellet traveling 850 fps leaves too much of a chance for a cripple if the brain is missed. I will not use a 22 rimfire roundnose for the same reason. I take heart/lung shots with H and N terminators and am pleased. I shot a squirrel off a log at ten yards and just missed the brain. When I went to retrieve him he was still alive. This was over an hour later. You can be an excellent shot but when that squirrel shows up at ten yards it is easily to shoot a little low. If I would have shot him through the boiler house a hit a half inch low would it still have been a humane kill. JMO

[tektrixter]

I assume you already put blue loctite on the forearm stock screws and the rear trigger guard screw.

I used the blue loctite when reassembling after adding the bearing trigger mod.

[profsrgary]

Wayne, since most springers and gas piston rifles are hold sensitive you will at some time have to ditch the card table. You will not be shooting from it when hunting so you are going to eventually have to practice the way you will shoot in the field. Why not practice from a shooting stick of some type. I use a Primos trigger stick. And always have a hand between the rest and rifle. While I can shoot some pretty impressive groups with mine but they open up to a shotgun pattern if I rest the rifle on the trigger stick. Just make sure you have some space for the gun to recoil and not have the trigger guard hit the trigger stick rest.

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

With My MTR77NP from a bench I get 3-4 time larger groups than I do off hand with a very firm hold on it. At 20 yards standing off hand I can shoot 1" groups with it, from a bench they spread out to 3"-4". I don't know why but it is repeatable and I have not been able to shoot good groups with it from a bench yet. For me it is more important to be able to shoot well off hand for hunting so I am OK with it. None of my other spring piston rifles like a firm hold. Until I tried holding it tight, standing off hand, I thought I just was not going to get any good groups with it. I have fun with it now that I figured out that it doesn't follow the rule.