.38 bullets in the Bulldog .357 experiment

[VaporTrail]

you've been quite the busy beaver, my friend! Look at you, with your 224FPE Bulldog!

I'm gonna have to say that's pretty good air usage and impressive numbers. Accuracy is pretty good too!

Me, I picked up a Pitbull Carbine recently. She's the heaviest hitter right now at 220FPE, but she also seems to be the least accurate. I use 108gr HPs, 122gr semi-cone flats, and 105gr SWCs. It's like a cone with a flat tip.

[redlined_b16a]

I alot of bullets today.
My goal was to find the most accurate at 40 yards then try for 100 yards.
I settled on the gt bullets .380 (sized .357) 88 grain hollow points and the Hornady 158 grain LRN

40 and 102 yards.
You can see the 158 grain ran vertical line from pressure changes with each shot.

The 10mph gusting winds took its toll on the 88 grains.
However I'm very pleased.

[VaporTrail]

Hey that's not bad. I get touching holes at 40 with the 108gr, but that's only on a 2500PSI fill. I think I need to fill up to full 3K. Maybe that'll help stabilize and increase accuracy. The 105gr seemed to work out alright, but I'll need to try a 3K fill and see how they do at that pressure.

I have some 86gr HP EPP/UGs, and those were going 910 at the 2500 fill. Not the greatest accuracy, though. Rick has some 90gr solid point versions of that slug, so I think I'll be giving those a shot too.

It's a shame GT don't ship out here. Those 88gr look pretty good. What speeds were you getting with those two slugs?

[redlined_b16a]

Last time I chronographed them the 88 grains I liked them at 900 fps but I can go faster
The 158 grains were 850ish

P.m. me your address and I'll see what kinda quotes I can get to send you a couple to try.
If they work out and your will to pay the shipping we can get you some GT Bullets.......if its possible

[VaporTrail]

Hmm...those are pretty good speeds. Looks like your Bulldog is a firebreather! Nice!

Thanks for the offer...I really appreciate it. Lemme take a look at their site again; I think I'm slowly making a switch from HP to solids.

Thanks again!

[redlined_b16a]

No chrono since it's raining but here is a prime example of "Tune the hammer spring to each bullet.
Bulldog .357 and the GT Bullets 88 grain .380 sized .357"

Started at with the hammer spring cap flush and increased turns in until I found what velocity the bullets performed best.
Every 5 shots topped off to 2900psi
40 yards

[mackeral5]

No chrono since it's raining but here is a prime example of "Tune the hammer spring to each bullet.
Bulldog .357 and the GT Bullets 88 grain .380 sized .357"

Started at with the hammer spring cap flush and increased turns in until I found what velocity the bullets performed best.
Every 5 shots topped off to 2900psi
40 yards

When shooting the GT 88gr in my OEM Bulldog barrel they do not like being pushed beyond the mid 800's range, maybe up to the 870's.  It prefers them closer to 850fps.  I believe this is due to the relatively fast rate of twist.  When shooting them from my TJ's 1:26 equipped gun they do fine up to the low 900's.  In my TJ's-equipped regulated Bulldog  they shoot 1" at 100 yards...



Shy of sending your gun off to have the barrel tensioned, there is another DIY method of increasing barrel stability in the Bulldog.  IMO, forget the loose fitting barrel/shroud spacers offered by various manufacturers.  So far I've had a couple different types and none fit tight enough for my preferences.  Purchase 2-3 more rear shroud adapters from Crosman.  The Crosman rear shroud adapter is made to much tighter tolerances plus it has the oring to help maintain barrel/shroud alignment.  Make shims from brass stock to make up the difference between the barrel's forward section that is 5/8 OD vs the rear that is 11/16".  This will all but make the barrel/shroud one solid unit, and your groups will tighten significantly. 

[redlined_b16a]

Thas an amazing group for sure.
I really like the 88grains.

[Nomadic Pirate]

If you like to experiment more Matt's bullets has a pretty nice selection,
I used to shoot his stuff back in the day and liked it a lot,.....you can ask him not to put the lube or gas check in the bullets as he makes them.

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65

[redlined_b16a]

If you like to experiment more Matt's bullets has a pretty nice selection,
I used to shoot his stuff back in the day and liked it a lot,.....you can ask him not to put the lube or gas check in the bullets as he makes them.

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65

Very interesting for sure.
Thanks.

[Lani52]

Rick Morrill on the AA Airgun Classifieds sells 358 bullets of the correct diameter for the Bulldog and the correct alloy, what your shooting is not  good bullets for the Bulldog, they are too hard.  I bought some of his 122 grain bullets, they were very accurate, enough so that I purchased the mold.

I cast  3 different bullets for my Bulldog, I get good accuracy with the NOE 152-358 , they are 152 grain hollow-points, at 865 FPS. I use 40-1 alloy.

Matt, from Pitbull, used my 178grain Lyman 358429 to hit a 300 yard golf ball.

Regards,

Roachcreek

[mackeral5]

Rick Morrill on the AA Airgun Classifieds sells 358 bullets of the correct diameter for the Bulldog and the correct alloy, what your shooting is not  good bullets for the Bulldog, they are too hard.  I bought some of his 122 grain bullets, they were very accurate, enough so that I purchased the mold.

I cast  3 different bullets for my Bulldog, I get good accuracy with the NOE 152-358 , they are 152 grain hollow-points, at 865 FPS. I use 40-1 alloy.

Matt, from Pitbull, used my 178grain Lyman 358429 to hit a 300 yard golf ball.

Regards,

Roachcreek

RC, I want to respectfully add some info that is not 100% in alignment with yours...  I don't have a lot of slug experience and no casting experience, so this is based on limited experience with 3 different .357 barrels (2 OEM Crosman, 1 tj's.)  Of the 2 OEM Bulldog barrels, one prefers .356, the other .357.  Neither like .358.  I size with the NOE system.   The TJ's does well with .358 and .357, with a slight edge going to 357. 

Regarding hardness, the bullets from GT Bullets are cast in 2-2-96.  I don't know what this means, but I can tell you that they aren't too difficult to push through the bore and shoot very accurately.  The little 88gr expands pretty well too.  here are a couple of pics when shot in water jugs at 60ish yards.  MV around 915fps IIRC.  The slug passed through one jug and was captured in the second.  If the ammo was too hard, I would expect to see things such as lower velocity, poor accuracy, little or no expansion?  Are there other indicators of the bullet being too hard?  Thanks in advance...

[Lani52]

I personally have had better luck with .358 and 40-1 lead and use it in all my casting Having said that you are certainly getting good results.  Your

Bullets that are too hard would probably blow breech/barrel o-rings if they do anything.

Matt at Pitbull is a great guy and If I did not cast, I would probably buy from him or Morril. 

The diameter of your barrels indicate the importance of slugging a barrel, as different batches and in your case, you have matched the bullets to the barrels correctly.

My Bulldog seems to prefer the .358 and 40-1.

I prefer to roll my own.  In past years when I have purchased bullets, I have found them to be of a quality that would make fine remelt.  As a home caster and being retired I have the time to weigh each individual bullet and to also I Check for defects, a chore my wife helps me with due to my poor vision.  Buying commercial cast bullets that are specific to airguns. also gave me a chance to test that particular design before buying the mold. 

These days I use in order of preference for molds, I  prefer Arsenal and Accurate molds as I can request the diameter to match what ever barrel I am using and also the alloy. NOE comes next due to the design offered and their sizing system they designed.  I used Lyman molds for decades, but they drop what I consider to be diameters way over what I would consider correct, mainly due to the fact that if you size a bullet too far you risk deforming it with most sizing systems if you try to do it in one pass.

Examples of this are the 257420 molds  made by Lyman and Arsenal.  My Arsenal molds drop my bullets right at  my requested diameter of .258, while my Lyman mood 257420 drops at .261.  If you size oversized bullets in steps, with successive smaller dies  with the NOE system you can avoid sizing damage by Lyman/RCBS designed sizing press, but why would I want to if I can buy a mold that drops bullets that are so close in diameter to my barrel that I can shoot as cast.

And again it is why I cast my own, if a commercial caster does what I do, the bullets will be vastly more expensive.  However some commercial caster do this.

I encourage you do become a caster, with your airgun Smith skills you would become one of the ultimate slug shooting air gunners. Having said this I do realize physical, life partners and residence requirements prevent this, myself I am sure my children, wife and relatives would prefer that I give up my Braille casting, but they know how much I like rolling my own.

Regards,

Roachcreek

[mackeral5]

I personally have had better luck with .358 and 40-1 lead and use it in all my casting Having said that you are certainly getting good results.  Your

Bullets that are too hard would probably blow breech/barrel o-rings if they do anything.

Matt at Pitbull is a great guy and If I did not cast, I would probably buy from him or Morril. 

The diameter of your barrels indicate the importance of slugging a barrel, as different batches and in your case, you have matched the bullets to the barrels correctly.

My Bulldog seems to prefer the .358 and 40-1.

I prefer to roll my own.  In past years when I have purchased bullets, I have found them to be of a quality that would make fine remelt.  As a home caster and being retired I have the time to weigh each individual bullet and to also I Check for defects, a chore my wife helps me with due to my poor vision.  Buying commercial cast bullets that are specific to airguns. also gave me a chance to test that particular design before buying the mold. 

These days I use in order of preference for molds, I  prefer Arsenal and Accurate molds as I can request the diameter to match what ever barrel I am using and also the alloy. NOE comes next due to the design offered and their sizing system they designed.  I used Lyman molds for decades, but they drop what I consider to be diameters way over what I would consider correct, mainly due to the fact that if you size a bullet too far you risk deforming it with most sizing systems if you try to do it in one pass.

Examples of this are the 257420 molds  made by Lyman and Arsenal.  My Arsenal molds drop my bullets right at  my requested diameter of .258, while my Lyman mood 257420 drops at .261.  If you size oversized bullets in steps, with successive smaller dies  with the NOE system you can avoid sizing damage by Lyman/RCBS designed sizing press, but why would I want to if I can buy a mold that drops bullets that are so close in diameter to my barrel that I can shoot as cast.

And again it is why I cast my own, if a commercial caster does what I do, the bullets will be vastly more expensive.  However some commercial caster do this.

I encourage you do become a caster, with your airgun Smith skills you would become one of the ultimate slug shooting air gunners. Having said this I do realize physical, life partners and residence requirements prevent this, myself I am sure my children, wife and relatives would prefer that I give up my Braille casting, but they know how much I like rolling my own.

Regards,

Roachcreek

Thank you for your thoughtful response RC.  Life became busy for a couple days so I am a little delayed in responding.  We have a few more years of our girls being home with us, perhaps once we become empty-nesters I may take up casting.  My father and I used to cast fishing weights and roundball/maxi ball for muzzle loaders when I was young, but by no means were either of these an exercise in precision....  For now in obtaining slugs, I'm compromising on quality/precision for cost/level of effort.  I don't have access to longer ranges so these cheap cowboy bullets seem to suffice.   The information that you, Mike/Knife, and others have so freely shared helped me to at least understand the basics to the point that MOA shooting isn't an unreasonable expectation out of my guns.  And I do certainly appreciate it, has been an interesting journey thus far.  Perhaps someday I will have the opportunity to try for longer ranges. 

On another note, I do believe for the first time in many years I will purchase a hunting license this year and take an animal or two with an airgun, or two....

[redlined_b16a]

Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi

Soft soil expansion .802"

[mackeral5]

Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi

Soft soil expansion .802"

You're making progress.  Have you tried sizing to .356?  I have one BD barrel that prefers .356.... 

I shot a few of the 88gr this morning, they are absolutely surgical in my regulated, TJ barreled Bulldog.  1 inch spinner out at 70 yards is almost child's play...

Some day I will take a critter with the 88gr.......

[redlined_b16a]

Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi

Soft soil expansion .802"

You're making progress.  Have you tried sizing to .356?  I have one BD barrel that prefers .356.... 

I shot a few of the 88gr this morning, they are absolutely surgical in my regulated, TJ barreled Bulldog.  1 inch spinner out at 70 yards is almost child's play...

Some day I will take a critter with the 88gr.......

I only have a .357lee die at this time but I'm going to clean my barrel and try again today.

[VaporTrail]

Hmm...it looks like those 88s prefer a 2500PSI fill. Looks like a tighter group.

[redlined_b16a]

I did clean the barrel and found a leaking breach Seal leaking.

More shooting to come.Still at 52 yards I destroyed a large pest squirrel with a brain shot.

[VaporTrail]

nice!