Flash BT, XL?

[Rallyshark]

Great idea for producing the barrel band. Looks really good. I asked a pro once how they handled the dust from rotary cutting CF and he said they cut flat work with a 3 axis CNC table and plunge router and the table was in a tub so it could be flooded. All the cutting work was done submerged. Kept the tools cool as well since CF is about the most abrasive material out there to cut. They could stack up several sheets at a time for high volume work.

There are certainly better ways to do it, than my way.  I went to school for composites, which is why I happened to have a thick piece of tooling carbon floating aroundz(race car stuff).  I don't mess with it much anymore, or have the resources I once had to work with it, so dremel it is for me,lol. 

I ran out of time for testing today, so I hope to have a thorough report on what works with it by next weekend at the latest.  I know for sure the barrel on it likes NSA 18/21 grain from when it was on my other gun.  Assuming I haven't introduced any new issues, it should at least like some of the slugs.  I will test it with NSA 15.5/18/21 grain slugs, followed by Griffin 23/24 grain flat base, and 24 grain cup base slugs.  All of which do fit the magazines

[rdtricks]

I really like the looks you have achieved.  Hopefully all the work in this project of yours will result in a real shooter.  Looking forward to read more of your exploits as this all comes to fruition.   Some of your ideas may even work on modifications I am considering to my synthetic Flash QE.  Being first and breaking trail is one thing, but learning from someone that has gone before seems a bit less risky.

[Rallyshark]

I really like the looks you have achieved.  Hopefully all the work in this project of yours will result in a real shooter.  Looking forward to read more of your exploits as this all comes to fruition.   Some of your ideas may even work on modifications I am considering to my synthetic Flash QE.  Being first and breaking trail is one thing, but learning from someone that has gone before seems a bit less risky.

Thanks!  All of those tricks have been applied to my synthetic Flash as well(including the BT cylinder)   That is the gun this barrel was on, prior to the Flashpup.  The regular Flash has a better barrel band, and is much less prone to POI shifts.  The reason I "moved" this project over to the Flashpup was length more than anything.  The regular Flash rifle is quite long with a 24" barrel 

[Rallyshark]

Looks like it has all come together quite nicely .  Great job!

Thanks man, I know you understand the PITA that is involved with these "special" projects,lol.  I'm hoping it will like the 15.5 NSA's as much as it does the others, so I can run it on a lower power regulated house gun tune too  

[rdtricks]

Hey, are you running this beautiful new beast of your regulated?  I know Huma makes a regulator for the Flash as I have one yet to be installed into my gun.  It would be interesting to know how your new toy handles under all conditions (regulator pressures) and what pellets/ slugs are prefered at the various levels.  Just thinking with the keyboard.   

[Rallyshark]

Hey, are you running this beautiful new beast of your regulated?  I know Huma makes a regulator for the Flash as I have one yet to be installed into my gun.  It would be interesting to know how your new toy handles under all conditions (regulator pressures) and what pellets/ slugs are prefered at the various levels.  Just thinking with the keyboard.

I'm not currently running a regulator on it, due to the high power testing I'm doing.  A regulator is the wrong tool for the job, when you're shooting 24 grain .177 slugs at 925 fps as tune.  The reg just can't make that power level, even with a big plenum.  If it likes the 15.5 grain slugs at lower velocities, then I will give it a go with the regulator.  I just want to wait until I can finish up my high power testing first.  I can say the barrel(LW unchoked polygon) really likes the 18/21 grain NSA slugs, since I got to test them when the barrel was on my regular Flash.  I haven't gotten the chance to test yet, since I put the barrel on this gun.  I should be able to get that done by next weekend sometime at the latest. 

The regulators do a great job on mid and lower power tunes for sure.  I got over 50 shots at 15 fpe in .177 with the regulator, and over 30 in .22 at 30fpe, both with the factory air cylinder.  At those power levels, a reg is a no brainer to me.  The guns tend to do better without a regulator on the high power tunes though. 

[Rallyshark]

I got a chance today to do some more testing, and the Turkenstein loves the NSA 15.5 slugs too!  Time for some regulation now me thinks   The bad news is it will not shoot the Griffin slugs to save it's life   I still continues to key hole them.  I don't know if it is the diameter, twist rate, or if the leade isn't deep enough for those little javelins, but they are a flat out no go.  Oh well, it does like all the NSA's sol I can work with that.  I'm gonna tension the barrel, and re-test, just to be sure.  It likes the every weight of the NSA slugs even going well over 1000fps. 

It was shooting a ragged hole with the 15.5s, and I just guessed on the HS when I turned it down to test.  After I came in, I decided to see what speed they were shooting.  I put a few over the chrony, and they were shooting 1040 fps,lol.  I guess I needed to go another couple turns down on them    I've got enough adjustment to get them as low as 850 fps, so I think I'm gonna see if I can do a regulated tune with them around 900 fps.  It should get a pretty decent shot count with that tune, even if it is almost 28 fpe in .177.  The Turkenstein breathes pretty well, so I'm gonna try it with a standard plenum, and not the XXXL plenum

[anti-squirrel]

This build is one of the most exciting and interesting I've seen since I joined the GTA, Donny.  I know I'm not the only person excited by a high-energy .177 slug-gun.

[Rallyshark]

This build is one of the most exciting and interesting I've seen since I joined the GTA, Donny.  I know I'm not the only person excited by a high-energy .177 slug-gun.

Thanks Peter   It will be most exciting for me when I finish,lol.  I'm working on tensioning the barrel with 20mm OD carbon fiber tube, and the clearances are TIGHT...  I got the carbon tube finished a few minutes ago, and the bushings for the ends.  I can already tell it will help a lot with overall flex and rigidity of the gun/barrel.  My main goal is to have a gun I don't have to worry about knocking off zero very easily.  I gotta get some more camo wrap to redo the barrel sleeve, and then I'll work on getting the reg installed and set properly. 

I've got the power department covered, because the gun can darn near send the 21 grain NSA slugs super sonic if I wanted.  Obviously, I won't be going for that.  It will do a solid 20 shot tune with those around 970 fps un-regged, which I will try for a porker with at some point.  I'm hoping I can manage a pretty good regulated tune with the 15.5 grain in the 900 fps range as well.  I just have to play with set points and plenum sizes to see what works best.  The weather will be junk the next two days, so that will give me time to finish tuning and put everything back together and get it back on a target by Sunday   More to come!

[Rallyshark]

I put the reg in the Turkenstein today to see what kind of tune I could get with the 15.5 grain NSA slugs.  I used the standard BT65 plenum on the reg, and not the XXL plenum.  I set the regulator around 145 bar, which I figured would be higher than I need.  I did that, because I wanted the flexibility to turn the HS up a little and shoot the 18 grain NSA slugs if I want.  I was right about the bar needed, 145 is a bit too much.

It is coming off the reg around shot 41 or 42, followed by a bit of a spike until it drops down just below the tune around shot 57(as expected).  With the current setup, the ES is bit high if I shoot it through 56 shots(4 magazines).  With it as is, I got 56 shots averaging 906 fps(28fpe) and an ES of 39.  If I stop at 3 magazines(42 shots) the average is 903 with a more tame ES of 22.  The speed picks up into the mid/high 920s after 3 magazines.  Still, it is quite usable with that extra magazine of shots off reg.  I know the ES will go down once the gun itself smooths out some in the hammer channel and spring.  All of this being said, I should be able to get a much tighter ES if I leave the reg where it is and tune it in the 925 fps range with the 15.5s, or in the 890-900 fps range with the 18 grainers. 

I have no doubt I could still get 42 shots with a great ES tuned in the 29 fpe range with the 15.5 grain slugs, and still over 30 shots in the 32 fpe range with the 18 grain slugs.  That isn't stellar efficiency, but it ain't bad at all for a .177 at these power levels   I mean a regulated 30 fpe .177 is a serious hunter with great range and penetration!  The little slugs buck the wind great, and penetrate quite well with all that weight behind that tiny diameter.  Also, not a lot of holdover for the weight.  If the accuracy holds up after I get done tensioning the barrel this weeked, the Turkenstein will be one heck of a sweet little pup me thinks

[JayV21]

Yes it is.  I was so dang happy when I finally found a barrel that likes the .177 slugs!  I don't mean does okay, but actually shoots really well with them.  The combo of power/low noise/long range effectiveness/penetration offered by this combo is pretty awesome in my book.
[/quote]





Have you tried the H&N piledrivers in that barrel?

[Rallyshark]

No, I haven't, not in this unchoked polygon.  I have tried them in a choked polygon with no luck.  I gave up on them a long time ago, because they were so inconsistent in size and accuracy.  I imagine this barrel may do okay with them, but the pile drivers have always been kind of a one trick pony with not much benefit for me.  I'll take the 21 grain NSA slugs over them all day long I spoke with Nick at NSA a few days ago, and he has the tooling on the way to run the .177 slugs on the high speed machine, which means the prices will get much better!  That is great news, as those little suckers are expensive at the moment...

[Rallyshark]

Welp, tensioning the barrel is gonna have to wait a few days.  The carbon tube I was going to use isn't straight    I finally figured that out after fighting trying to get it to fit correctly...  This dummy should have realized that sooner   At least I know I have good regged tune waiting for it when I do get finished.

[anti-squirrel]

That's kinda sad.  I'd be sorely tempted to play with the new toy regardless.

What this is proving more than anything is the .177 NSA slugs are no joke with the right barrel- but I then k we all know this already   Make me sorely reconsider keeping my Varmint and getting an unchoked barrel.   I also think the pellet manufacturers should re-evaluate their offerings. 

[moorepower]

Sounds like you have an all day sucker with that kind of shot count!

[Rallyshark]

That's kinda sad.  I'd be sorely tempted to play with the new toy regardless.

What this is proving more than anything is the .177 NSA slugs are no joke with the right barrel- but I then k we all know this already   Make me sorely reconsider keeping my Varmint and getting an unchoked barrel.   I also think the pellet manufacturers should re-evaluate their offerings.

I may be playing with it anyway, because I discovered something a few minutes ago that really makes me feel like a dummy, sort of.  I may not tension this barrel after all.  As it showed in the pictures I posted, I had wrapped the barrel in a vinyl camo wrap.  Well, I pulled that off in preparation for tensioning the barrel.  After I found out the CF tube I was going use was warped, I was sitting there playing with a bushing I had made to fit the barrel snug through the front rail support/barrel band.  This bushing was one from another gun that wasn't wrapped.  I stuck it in there just goofing around, and the barrel got super stiff?!  It turns out the wrap on the barrel was allowing the barrel to flex around more inside that bushing, making it not as stiff as I expected.  That soft vinyl wrap was squishing inside the bushing    Now, without the wrap in on the barrel, it is pretty darn stiff!  Moral of the story, don't put camo wrap on a barrel where it will be supported,lol.  I'm going make a little longer/tighter fitting bushing, and then probably apply the wrap around the part of the barrel that doesn't fit through that rail.  I think that will do the trick. 

Yes, the little slugs are awesome, provided you can find a barrel to shoot them!  They really do bring the .177 up a notch in ability.  What you give up in outright fpe over a larger caliber, is gained back in BC/penetration/expansion/energy maintained to the target. 

Sounds like you have an all day sucker with that kind of shot count!

 

Very true!  The weight is still very good too, so it won't tire you out carrying it around Oh, and the noise... It is deceptively quiet in .177!

[Rallyshark]

More shenanigans are going on with the barrel.  I'm pretty sure I'm fighting harmonics with it at this point.  Even though the barrel is quite secure and solid, my groups are a bit larger than I know the barrel is capable of.  I made a little spacer that fits semi-snug between the barrel and air cylinder, just to absorb fine vibrations.  It is held in place by slight pressure between the barrel and cylinder, nothing else.   Just moving the little spacer 3" fore or aft can cut the group sizes in half.  That little spacer is the difference between hitting most of the shots in a 1/2" circle or literally being able to shoot pellet sized groups.  I never saw these issues when the barrel was on the regular Flash, and think it is simply because the barrel support was in a different place on that gun, so the harmonics were different.  The barrel is actually more rigid on this gun...

Obviously, a spacer isn't a solution I'm happy with, if I'm gonna be wandering around hunting with it.  My next move is going to be going back to tensioning the barrel(with a straight piece of CF tubing).  It won't be simply a matter of tensioning it though.  I'm going to add some snug fitting derlin "bushings" inside that tensioned carbon about 6" apart after the front rail support just to change the harmonics a bit.  Hopefully, that will get me a permanent solution here.  The folks I ordered the CF tubing from are sending me another for free, since the one I recieved was warped.  We'll see what I come up with when I get some more CF in my hands to play with. 

[Rallyshark]

I had another go at tensioning the barrel with some CF tube that is straight.  I think I've knocked out the harmonics issues, and it is shooting pretty good with the 15.5 grain NSA slugs regulated.  It isn't quite as good as I'd like, but that has more to do with speed.  All of the NSA slugs shoot great out of this barrel at 950+ fps.  They are just decent in the 900-925 fps range.  I mean, it is sub dime size all day long at 30 yards at the current tune, which is fine for minute of pest in my yard.  I need to test it at longer ranges to see if they level out or not at this speed.  At higher speeds, they are one hole accurate, but I don't want to be shooting slugs at 975-1000 fps around my house.  They would just fly through smaller critters at that speed, and then I'd have to worry a bit more about where they are going after the shot...  The high speed tunes will be used on not so small critters at some point though

Speaking of, I need to try out some of the JSB Beast 16.2 grain with this current tune.  They actually shoot a little faster than the NSAs do.  I guess that is because they are sealing up better.  I wish somebody made a .177 HP pellet that was heavier than 10 grains.  I do need to test the Turkenstein out at lower power levels with other pellets at some point though.  I imagine the shot count would be nuts!

[VaporTrail]

That's interesting. The NSAs I've shot were all traveling below 900FPS, and groupings were right around 1". Perhaps I need to revisit them using the RallyBoss.

Also interesting stuff about the sleeving. I ordered a Clague LDC, so I might be taking off the shroud of my stock Boss and attaching the Clague straight to the barrel. I'd imagine some sleeving will be needing prevent flex.

It also looks like I'll need to play around with mounting points of barrel bands, too.

Oh...and on a related note, I passed on a refurb .22 Flash. Took every ounce of restraint I could muster, but I did it.

For now. 

[Rallyshark]

That's interesting. The NSAs I've shot were all traveling below 900FPS, and groupings were right around 1". Perhaps I need to revisit them using the RallyBoss.

Also interesting stuff about the sleeving. I ordered a Clague LDC, so I might be taking off the shroud of my stock Boss and attaching the Clague straight to the barrel. I'd imagine some sleeving will be needing prevent flex.

It also looks like I'll need to play around with mounting points of barrel bands, too.

Oh...and on a related note, I passed on a refurb .22 Flash. Took every ounce of restraint I could muster, but I did it.

For now. 

You should wait a bit longer on the Flash anyway.  They are coming out with a side lever version of the synthetic flashpup very soon.  I got the email about it from Hatsan, but it isn't in stock yet.  In all of my testing, the polygon barrels tend to like speed in most cases, fwiw.  Mr. Clague's LDCs are top notch in my experience.  The Turkenstein is wearing one after all    I don't know if you'll need to play around with the barrel bands on the BB.  It has a thicker barrel than the Turkenstein does.  If you sleeve it with 20mm OD CF, you should be fine.  Or you could just make an insert that holds the barrel tight in the barrel support too.  Your BB is much less finicky about the barrel than the Flashpups are when you remove the QE.