Flash BT, XL?

[anti-squirrel]

Donny, builds like this and the use of slugs are going to change airgunning in a huge way.

[Rallyshark]

Donny, builds like this and the use of slugs are going to change airgunning in a huge way.

I believe you are correct.  I mean, this gun shooting slugs can do stuff no .177 should be able to do!  Plus, I can order the ammo, without having to cast my own  

[Rallyshark]

Okay, I got the "Turkenstein" Flashpup XL slapped together a few minutes ago.  It looks much better than I expected, because I wasn't sure how wonky it would look with that big air cylinder.  The parts/mod list is:

-Wood Flashpup .177
-BT65 air cylinder
-23.8" LW UNchoked Polygon barrel(carbon sleeved)
-Neil Clague LDC
-Falcon M18+ FFP MOA 3-18x44 scope
-PEEK valve seat(.215)
-Bore size porting, with .165 area(oval) barrel port
-PEEK probe guide
-Modded HS cup for single screw adjustment in stock
-Heavier/slightly longer HS
-Mossy Oak Obsession shotgun camo wrap
-20fpe-50+fpe depending on tune/ammo

That basically sums up what I've done to it.  I will probably do more to stiffen up the cylinder/barrel in the stock, but it is pretty rigid as it sits.  I'm sure there's something else I haven't thought about yet too.  Now, I just need some decent weather and time to do some more ammo testing.  The NSA 18 and 21 grain slugs are know accurate in this barrel.  I'm hoping the Griffin 23 or 24 grain will prove to be as well, and maybe the NSA 15.5 grain?  That's my update at the moment, but I'm sure there's more to come   Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised with how well the Turkenstein looks at the moment!  Below are a few pictures I took, but it was almost dark.  I also put a picture of the PEEK probe guide I installed in there.

[mcoulter]

Wow.  Just wow!!!

[anti-squirrel]

The big tube actually looks better than OEM.  Very nice!

Makes me contemplate things- that's for sure.  The wealth of small-bore slugs means more ammo can be carried with less weight while keeping energy levels up but using less air than comparable energy for a larger caliber (at least that's what I'm thinking).

Makes me thing the next revolution will be using small-bores with decent size plenums and adjustable power- thinking externally adjustable regulators.  Wanna reach out and go p-dawging at 120 yards with .177 or .22 slugs?  Crank it up.  Wanna poke hole in rats inside a dairy farm?  Drop the power and switch to wadcutters.

[Rallyshark]

Wow.  Just wow!!!

 

The big tube actually looks better than OEM.  Very nice!

Makes me contemplate things- that's for sure.  The wealth of small-bore slugs means more ammo can be carried with less weight while keeping energy levels up but using less air than comparable energy for a larger caliber (at least that's what I'm thinking).

Makes me thing the next revolution will be using small-bores with decent size plenums and adjustable power- thinking externally adjustable regulators.  Wanna reach out and go p-dawging at 120 yards with .177 or .22 slugs?  Crank it up.  Wanna poke hole in rats inside a dairy farm?  Drop the power and switch to wadcutters.

Thanks!  I think that 24" barrel makes that larger cylinder look better.  The small bore definitely has some good attributes, and with that much power behind that .177 diameter slug, it can handle much larger critters than one may think.  It will out penetrate my .22 that is tuned to 60 fpe.  In other words, there aren't many noggins that it can't get through   Of course, it would be quite effective at low power with pellets for smaller stuff too.

The Turkenstein isn't currently regulated, but can be easily(and with a .30 cal XL plenum too).  However, the power is externally adjustable with only a 4mm allen key or driver.  I don't have to take anything apart, I just insert the allen through the rear of the stock  and adjust.  That is one of the main reasons I decided to do this to a Flashpup, because I knew I could modify the HS setup for easy adjustments with one tool and no disassembly.  The only thing I have left is to make a second barrel band/support to make things extra rigid.  It is a hunting gun first, and I can't have a gun that is easily knocked off zero.  I'm still mulling how I want to accomplish that in my head... 

[moorepower]

Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic  Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!
 

[Rallyshark]

Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic  Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!

Thanks!  With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup.  When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case.  It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC.  I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun.  The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill.  I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels.  I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope. 

[QueeQueg]

Fascinating!

I wonder how much I could get a Titanium air tube made for. I would like to stay at stock length or shorter maybe with a Donny Tanto and CF shroud. and still get some more air capacity if possible. Should be no problem filling to 250 bar and would be able to add a couple inches of length to the tube with the QE shroud gone.

I have an abundance of CF tubing laying around the shop from years of flying RC helicopters. Found some 1MM thick that is alloy reinforced internally on the ends to 2MMs. It is exactly the same OD as the QE shroud. I should be able to cut it to a length that will allow me to use the Moderator to tension the barrel and get reasonable support from the barrel band.

[Rallyshark]

Fascinating!

I wonder how much I could get a Titanium air tube made for. I would like to stay at stock length or shorter maybe with a Donny Tanto and CF shroud. and still get some more air capacity if possible. Should be no problem filling to 250 bar and would be able to add a couple inches of length to the tube with the QE shroud gone.

I have an abundance of CF tubing laying around the shop from years of flying RC helicopters. Found some 1MM thick that is alloy reinforced internally on the ends to 2MMs. It is exactly the same OD as the QE shroud. I should be able to cut it to a length that will allow me to use the Moderator to tension the barrel and get reasonable support from the barrel band.

I think you have the right idea in tensioning the barrel for sure.  That is the one area that Hatsan got it right in using the QE shroud/nut to tension the barrel.  You'll need 20mm OD to fit the barrel band good and tight.  I don't know if having a titanium tube made would be cost prohibitive or not?  I chose to use the BT cylinder, since it is a readily available part and not that expensive($99).  I do know the valve can handle 250 bar, since it is the same valve used in the 250 bar Nova/Nova Star.  I still may end up using some 20mm OD carbon myself to tension the barrel, before all is said and done...

[QueeQueg]

The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.

I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.

[Rallyshark]

Very cool, let us know what you find out! 

[moorepower]

Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic  Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!

Thanks!  With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup.  When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case.  It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC.  I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun.  The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill.  I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels.  I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope.

I was meaning the thread size on the tubes. I think you sead the Flash syn and wood used a different thread, and the Woodpup and syn pup used different tubes? I kind of had a Synpup in my sights. I don't think the oal is bad at all esp. for transporting. Do you know the I.D. of the tube by chance? kind of wondering about a bottle adapter too.

[moorepower]

The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.

I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.

Just remember if the regulator fails you are putting full 5000 psi to valve and retaining screws.

[QueeQueg]

The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.

I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.

Just remember if the regulator fails you are putting full 5000 psi to valve and retaining screws.

I'm only looking to fill to 250bar and may use a Huma .30 cal reg so if it fails it would at most go to 3600 psi. I'd be willing to bet you could go 5000 psi now without blowing up the gun. Probably wouldn't function very well but usually any hazardous application like HPA should have at least a 2 to 1 safety factor design. Certainly not recommending going over Hatsan's 200 bar limit. But just like the Benjamin Bulldog which is rated to 200 bar but has been tested to 10,000psi without failure and shot at 300 bar as well, you could get away with more than 200 from a flash.

Come to think of it the 10,000 PSI test with the bulldog was done with an extended tank that was made of 7075 aluminum which is cheaper than Ti and much easier to machine Hmmmm.

[Thane]

That is one strong .177!

The BT65 air tube is an awesome find. I am also dealing with locking down the rail lateral motion. You have confirmation that the QE provided more than just sound dampening.

[Rallyshark]

Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic  Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!

Thanks!  With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup.  When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case.  It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC.  I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun.  The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill.  I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels.  I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope.

I was meaning the thread size on the tubes. I think you sead the Flash syn and wood used a different thread, and the Woodpup and syn pup used different tubes? I kind of had a Synpup in my sights. I don't think the oal is bad at all esp. for transporting. Do you know the I.D. of the tube by chance? kind of wondering about a bottle adapter too.

My best guess is they wanted to keep the same air capacity, but use a shorter tube?  I know on the SFP the front of the stock is closed, so the aluminum tube would be too long.  Of course, you could open that up if you wanted to swap out the valve and go with the BT cylinder.  I don't know what the threads are, but seems like I remember the ID being somewhere near 30 mm.  The ID of the steel cylinder is definitely larger than the aluminum cylinder.  As far as I remember, the steel cylinders Hatsan uses on their other guns(AT44/Bullboss/etc.) are actually smaller in diameter, so this may be a new diameter and thread(for Hatsan) used on the Flash series with the steel cylinder.  Where there's a will, there's a way to do anything you feel like tackling

That is one strong .177!

The BT65 air tube is an awesome find. I am also dealing with locking down the rail lateral motion. You have confirmation that the QE provided more than just sound dampening.

Yessir, she's cooking pretty good for a .177.  I just got done re-enforcing that front rail mount with some tooling carbon I had floating around, and it definitely helped in that department.  I'll post some pictures in a bit.  But yeah, the QE tensioning the barrel did seem to be a good remedy to barrel movement.  A remedy as far as the gun not getting knocked off zero as easily.  I'm not saying I would rest the barrel on something and expect the POI to stay the same though

[Rallyshark]

I made that front rail/barrel band better   I happened to have a piece of really thick(and stiff) tooling carbon laying around, so I decided to put it to use.  First let me say, I don't recommend this to anyone not handy with a dremel, and not without a mask.  I was wearing a mask, and I still have carbon boogers,lol!  Anyway, I matched it to that front rail mount, did the outline on the carbon, and went nuts with the dremel.  It turned out a pretty good match.

I secured it to the rail mount/barrel band with two M4 machine screws and one M3 machine screw at the bottom.  It took very careful placement of the screws to avoid any clearance issues.  I did have to dremel out the inside of the stock just a bit for the added thickness of the rail mount to clear.  I used longer than needed screws, so I could put nuts on there to really cinch that carbon down.  Turns out, I didn't have to use the nuts, because the screws have really good bite in the rail mount.  I may add them later.  I also added a section of balsa wood in the carved out section of the stock where the picatinny mount is, so the cylinder would rest on it and not be free floating as much.  Finally, I drove my derlin insert inside the barrel band to secure the barrel nice and tight.  It goes into the hole in the carbon as well, so very sturdy.  Oh, and I cut a sliver from a piece of thin plastic tubing and pushed it in between the cylinder and rail mount(kind of like a very thin sleeve) to make the barrel/cylinder/mount even more rigid. 

After it all was said and done, the whoe bit is much more sturdy with zero slop between the gun and stock now.  The barrel flex is drastically reduced now.  I also made a thin derlin insert(not pictured) that I can fit between the barrel and cylinder, if needed to deal with harmonics down the road.  It fits nice and snug in there, and can be moved fore and aft for dampening purposes.  I don't know that'll need it, but better to have it and not need it...  Below are some pictures for reference, along with a few of the Turkenstein in it's natural environment(I got out the real camera for those)

[mackeral5]

Looks like it has all come together quite nicely .  Great job!

[QueeQueg]

Great idea for producing the barrel band. Looks really good. I asked a pro once how they handled the dust from rotary cutting CF and he said they cut flat work with a 3 axis CNC table and plunge router and the table was in a tub so it could be flooded. All the cutting work was done submerged. Kept the tools cool as well since CF is about the most abrasive material out there to cut. They could stack up several sheets at a time for high volume work.