Barrel time, input/opinions wanted

[Rallyshark]

Donny & Michael, what type of Epoxy did you use and any special suggestions in bonding the tubes together? Did you rough up the surfaces?

For me, it depends on how tight the tubes fit.  If it is a tight fitting tube, you'll never get it on there if you use JB Weld, but I will use it when there is a looser fitment.  On the stuff that is really snug, I epoxy, because it is more forgiving with the install of the tubes when the fitment is tight.  I use the slow setting stuff too.  You run a high risk of ending up with a tube half way on and stuck, if you use that 5 minute stuff.  Ask me how I know    I will rough up the mating surfaces if I can, before hand with some 150 grit sand paper. 

Oh Man! I would love a Lathe. But my shop is crammed full as it is. Lots of equipment in a small 12x16ft building. Hardly room to move. LOL 

I gotta say, I should have listened to Mr. David a long time ago, and got one.  I've only had mine a couple of weeks and I am already wondering how I lived without it!  I don't really have space for one either.  I ordered a little shop fox tool stand that is rated to 700lbs, and bolted the little lathe to it(you can add wheels to them too).  When I want to use it, I just move it out into the carport and go to town with it  

I just got the new barrel installed on the gun a little while ago.  I didn't have time to test accuracy, because it was dark.  I did run a few over the chrony though, and it will definitely not have any issues slinging almost any slug out there in .22.  I took the barrel port up a notch from what I'd usually do, since this barrel is intended for slugs and heavy pellets.  It is slightly oval and measures .205 x .196.  I had a few of the older NSA 30 grain slugs laying around, so I cranked the HS to see what that extra barrel length would do.  The fist three shots over the chrony were 1014, 1009, 1017 fps   I turned the HS down after that to get them around 900 fps, and put it up for the night.  69 fpe out of a Flash ain't bad at all, and I think it is safe to say it will be over 70 fpe with the 34 grain Beasts.  I very pleased with the power, now I just gotta wait until I can put it on a target in the next few days! 

[Rallyshark]

I need some more help guys    Something is up with the new slug liner barrel that I can't figure out.  I got my NSA .217 sample pack in, and was able to do some testing on a target today.  I was doing my testing at 30 yards, and know slugs don't always do great at shorter ranges.  I can't get a single one of the slugs to work worth a @#$*.  The only thing I haven't tried yet, is upping the speed on the heavier slugs.  I tried everything up to the 23 grain from 850-925fps, and they were all shotgunning.  I tried the 27.5/28.5 grain from 825-900fps, also shotgunning.  We're talking all over the place.  All of the holes are round, no keyholes.  Now the odd part is that it shoots the 25.39 Monsters(old and redesigned) great.  I never got a single flyer from those.

I was thinking the tail must be wagging on the bullets, causing them to clip the LDC, or some crazy turbulence with the LDC.  I put a shorter LDC on there, AND drilled out all the baffles to .312 to make darn sure it wasn't clipping.  It was still shooting all over the place.  I get the same results, regardless of which LDC I use.  I checked the alignment, and it is dead center with the bore.  Before anyone asks, no I can't try it without an LDC where I'm shooting   I didn't do anything to the slug liner, and the transition from the thimble to the liner is as smooth as can be with no variation in diameter.  Of course, it is possible there is a problem there and I just can't see it or feel it, but I don't think there is? When I push a slug though, there are no odd scuffs or anything on the slug, just the smooth twist rifling.  It has some resistance, then gets pretty snug towards the end of the barrel.   

One of two things is happening.  I did something wrong with the barrel and I'm getting clipping some how, or it simply doesn't like those .217 slugs.  I would think I would see some clipping with the Monsters too, if that was the issue, but they are shooting lights out.  Is it possible that the barrel would work that much better with .218?  Still, I don't think it should be shotgunning like it is with no consistency with the .217.  I would think it would be more a matter of larger groups, but not 3-5" groups?  I'm much more inclined think there is an error on my part somewhere.  I should have some Beasts to test tomorrow, if it isn't raining.  Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[rkr]

What does your liner slug at? Without knowing that it's trial and error to find a right size.

[bear air]

My 22 barrel hates the NSA .217 23gr slugs. All over the place like you said. I have some AVS 23gr HP/Cup base and they seem to do alright so far. I was thinking about trying some .218 slugs from NSA just to see.

[Rallyshark]

What does your liner slug at? Without knowing that it's trial and error to find a right size.

I honestly have no idea,lol.    It is made using an FX 600mm slug liner A.  The way I see it, I have two choices in ammo, .217 or .218.  I have zero interest in casting, so ammo has to be some I can buy. 

My 22 barrel hates the NSA .217 23gr slugs. All over the place like you said. I have some AVS 23gr HP/Cup base and they seem to do alright so far. I was thinking about trying some .218 slugs from NSA just to see.

Yeah, I'm a bit dumbfounded at this point.  I have literally tried 10 different slugs from 17.5 grain all the way up to 30 grain.  That includes BBT solid and HP.  They are all .217 sized.  I guess my next move is to try .218 of some sort.  I just can't help but believe one of those many slugs should have at least managed some sort of group.  They were flat out all over the place   To make it worse, it will shoot any pellet I put in there better.  I tried 7 different pellets from 16 grain up to 25.39 grain, and all but one grouped under 1".  3 of them grouped under 1/2", or basically a ragged hole. 

I went back and tried the heavy pellets again from 925-1000fps, just to see if they needed more speed.  I took one of my LDCs and opened up the baffles to .375, to insure there was no clipping.  I even tried a few shots with a .30 Huggett Belita(short), and got the same results.  I'm at a loss really.  I should have some Beasts to try out tomorrow, if the weather holds.  If I got something wrong building the barrel, I can't find what it is.  The fact that it will not shoot any of the slugs I tried, makes me think I must have got something wrong though.  I've never had a barrel that shot that many slugs this poorly.  Loading is smooth, and there is no dragging or damage when a pellet is pushed through.  The only thing I can think of is there could be too much free bore from the thimble into the barrel?  Of course, it wouldn't matter if that is the problem, because there isn't anything I can do about it now.  Maybe, I should just set it on fire, and walk away,lol. 

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, I had the same issue with the first thimble barrel I built with Hobby's help. It turned out to be a three way issue, that made it a booger to figure out.

First, the lede in the barrel was too loose, tilting the  the bullets before they hit the barrel liner. Second, the jump into the rifling especially with the off center tilting was a real issue.

But last and very important, the bullets were simply sized incorrectly for the barrel.  going from .217 to .218 may help a lot. However, I like to use sizing inserts from NOE and hone them out until I get accuracy. I buy two inserts @ 20 bucks total and keep honing the on I did accuracy with and keep honing until either that accuracy drops off, or the start to loose fpe due to higher friction.

This is when I switch to the unmolested insert sizer and bring it up to the size that gave the best combo.

Very often going a full .001 is far too much. I have seen drastic differences in accuracy in as little as .0002". But then again, I'm a stickler for accuracy.

Mike

[KnifeMaker]

What the heck is with the tiny print? GRRRRR!!!


Mike

[rkr]

Donny, I had the same issue with the first thimble barrel I built with Hobby's help. It turned out to be a three way issue, that made it a booger to figure out.

First, the lede in the barrel was too loose, tilting the  the bullets before they hit the barrel liner. Second, the jump into the rifling especially with the off center tilting was a real issue.

But last and very important, the bullets were simply sized incorrectly for the barrel.  going from .217 to .218 may help a lot. However, I like to use sizing inserts from NOE and hone them out until I get accuracy. I buy two inserts @ 20 bucks total and keep honing the on I did accuracy with and keep honing until either that accuracy drops off, or the start to loose fpe due to higher friction.

This is when I switch to the unmolested insert sizer and bring it up to the size that gave the best combo.

Very often going a full .001 is far too much. I have seen drastic differences in accuracy in as little as .0002". But then again, I'm a stickler for accuracy.

Mike

What Mike says. With bullets the size is much more critical than with pellets. Slug you barrel and you'll get a good starting point for bullet size. Too large bullets deform and too small tend to enter and exit a bit lopsided.

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, you mentioned that you oculdn' test at the time as it got dark outside.


I have leaned to use night time for the most important testing. I mounged a 1200 lumen out the front, tight spot beam and mounted it on the gun.


this allows me to see the full trajectory thru the scope as the cast bullets shine like tracers in the bright beam. Any wagging or spiraling is instantly seen and really helps in diagnosing any issues.


Last night, I spent all my time converting the RS II to a left hand action. I am left eye dominate, and shoot ambi, bout the best accuracy is left eyes.


That, and Author is kill'n my right wrist crossing over my chest and having to use mostly wrist movement to cock the heavy two springs system.


Using the side lever on the left hand of the action, I am able to use my arm and shoulder muscles to cock the gun rather than just the rist. So much smoother and much faster for single loading as I can now hold the action open with the left hand with the AG still shouldered, and insert a bullet with my right hand. Can't wait to get a .22 RS magazine in order to mod it for the long bullets I am shooting. 


Mike
Mike

[Rallyshark]

Thanks for the input Mike!  I ordered a .218 sample pack from NSA to see if that gets me more in the ballpark.  How much oversized was the leade you did?  I didn't do the leade of the thimble, until I had the slug liner fixed to it, so I would have less chance of drastic changes going from the thimble to the liner.  I also put a slight taper on the number 2 bit I used, and took it in until it just started touching the liner, so the transition should be smooth.  I couldn't go any smaller on the leade, or the probe wouldn't fit in it.  Of course, I could always turn down the probe a hair, if I decide to attempt this again.  The problem certainly could be in the thimble area though.  If that is the case, I'm kinda stuck with what I have, and I may just have to mark this barrel as a pellet only barrel  

Donny, I had the same issue with the first thimble barrel I built with Hobby's help. It turned out to be a three way issue, that made it a booger to figure out.

First, the lede in the barrel was too loose, tilting the  the bullets before they hit the barrel liner. Second, the jump into the rifling especially with the off center tilting was a real issue.

But last and very important, the bullets were simply sized incorrectly for the barrel.  going from .217 to .218 may help a lot. However, I like to use sizing inserts from NOE and hone them out until I get accuracy. I buy two inserts @ 20 bucks total and keep honing the on I did accuracy with and keep honing until either that accuracy drops off, or the start to loose fpe due to higher friction.

This is when I switch to the unmolested insert sizer and bring it up to the size that gave the best combo.

Very often going a full .001 is far too much. I have seen drastic differences in accuracy in as little as .0002". But then again, I'm a stickler for accuracy.

Mike

What Mike says. With bullets the size is much more critical than with pellets. Slug you barrel and you'll get a good starting point for bullet size. Too large bullets deform and too small tend to enter and exit a bit lopsided.

I'm really hoping that I can get somewhere with the .218 slugs when they show up.  What is the best method to slug a barrel?  I've never done that, so any info you can offer would help for sure. 

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, the lede was a bit oversized. It was a test Piece Daniel did for our guns. Just one more thing to earn. 

[Rallyshark]

Donny, the lede was a bit oversized. It was a test Piece Daniel did for our guns. Just one more thing to earn. 

Gotcha.  I wouldn't think a .221 lead would be too much on mine, would you?  Of course, I could have messed it up as well,lol. 

[Dairyboy]

All you need to do is push a slug through the barrel and then measure the lands/grooves on the slug. Pretty easy  bummer that there not working. I planned on doing something similar with a M10 .22 but holding off for now

[rkr]

All you need to do is push a slug through the barrel and then measure the lands/grooves on the slug. Pretty easy  bummer that there not working. I planned on doing something similar with a M10 .22 but holding off for now

A slightly oversize slug to ensure that it touches the bottom of the rifling. Tapping a slug with hammer usually expands it enough.

[bear air]

Donny I'm anxious to see how the .218 sized slugs do for you. If you get some decent results with the .218's I'm going to try some too and see what happens. Good luck.

[Rallyshark]

All you need to do is push a slug through the barrel and then measure the lands/grooves on the slug. Pretty easy  bummer that there not working. I planned on doing something similar with a M10 .22 but holding off for now

Don't let my results discourage you!  There's a good chance I got something wrong in the process.  I mean, this is the first time I've tried this, and it was on a new to me used mini lathe that I have very little time on.  I've got some Beasts that are supposed to show up today that I want to try.  After that, I'll pull the barrel and slug it and see what I'm getting.

Donny I'm anxious to see how the .218 sized slugs do for you. If you get some decent results with the .218's I'm going to try some too and see what happens. Good luck.

Hopefully, I'll have the answer next week on how they do.  If they don't work, I may try it again, now that I know a little more about what I'm dealing with.  I'm determined to have a gun that shoots slugs well, one way or another.  I've seen so many good results with the slug liners in .22, which is what leads me to think I must have gotten something a bit off.  Most of the good results I've seen have been with the .217, but I've also seem some state that the barrels are meant to work with .218?  Time will tell...

[Rallyshark]

If any of you guys have an FX .22 that you could measure the leade diameter and distance to the actual liner, I would certain appreciate the input!

[Dairyboy]

Hopefully you can get it figured out! I'm just really wanting to try the .22 TJ barrels. I might wait until I get my .22 TJ raptor mini and see what it's specs are at and then order the same barrel.

[Rallyshark]

Hopefully you can get it figured out! I'm just really wanting to try the .22 TJ barrels. I might wait until I get my .22 TJ raptor mini and see what it's specs are at and then order the same barrel.

I'm curious about that one too, as far as the barrel specs are concerned...

[Rallyshark]

My Beasts finally showed up today, but it was after dark, so no target time with them yet.  Hopefully, the rain will hold off tomorrow so I can put them on a  target.  I'm thinking it will probably do well with them. 

I did send a few over the chrony, and WOW!  I'm pretty sure this might be the "world record" for power out of a .22 Flashpup.  At full tilt it hit 989 fps with the 33.95 grain Beasts for 73.75 fpe   I had to see,lol.  I backed it down after that to try and get a good 10 shot power tune.  It managed 10 shots averaging 917 fps with an ES of 27.  So, a 10 shot 63 fpe tune out of a gun with 165 cc air cylinder ain't too shabby.  I will admit, that was on a 3100 psi fill, which isn't something I would do very often.  Of course, the odds of even needing 10 shots for anything I'd be hunting at that power are next to none.  It is still fun to know what it can do just the same.

Even if it doesn't like the .218 slugs, it won't be a total bust, since it does seem to like most pellets.  We'll know about the .218 by the end of next week I hope.