Barrel time, input/opinions wanted

[Rallyshark]

You guys have got the gears turning in my head right now   I have considered that thimble idea, and an FX slug liner.  I've seen where people have had good results with slugs and pellets with them.  In other words, it seems to be a proven solution.  Part of the decision may have temporarily been made for me, because I have a friend that was getting a choked poly barrel machined that never got finished.  He sold the gun, but still has the barrel.  It is still full length, so there is still plenty there for me to work with, and it would be a bargain barrel, should I mess up   

I'm not done with those other ideas you guys have mentioned, fwiw.  Denis, I'm right there with you on learning the lathe stuff.  Well, I know how to use one, but it has been a long time, and I got my hands on one the mini lathes used from someone.  I'm going to go through it and get everything up to snuff first.  On that note, I would have thought I'd need a faster twist than 1:20 for slugs in .22?  What caliber was that barrel for?  Also, do any of you have a list for what barrels are available from TJs?

Bear air, I already have a choked poly barrel in .177 for my other gun, and it works quite well!  I want this next barrel for the current gun to be .22 though. 

Knife, that is good to know about the probe o-ring.  That would definitely make the o-ring process much easier, if I wanted to go that route.  I just haven't decided if I want to or not.  We are talking about self indexing Hatsan magazines here, so they may find a way to mess that little o-ring up, haha. 

[Hobbyman2007]

Donny , here are the barrel lists , both Powder and air . I do believe there are others that aren’t listed , that’s where the 1:20 falls in . You haven’t mentioned the gun you plan on using as a base . For  what it’s worth  if I could get my hands on a LW barrel I would use that first , they are on the big side for airgun use and would make it easier to size bullets for .

[Rallyshark]

Donny , here are the barrel lists , both Powder and air . I do believe there are others that aren’t listed , that’s where the 1:20 falls in . You haven’t mentioned the gun you plan on using as a base . For  what it’s worth  if I could get my hands on a LW barrel I would use that first , they are on the big side for airgun use and would make it easier to size bullets for .

You just mentioned one of the biggest reasons I haven't put so much thought into the TJs.  That being how tight they are in .22.  Any slugs or pellets I shoot will be straight out of the box/tin.  All of this is pointing to,  I really need to see what I can do with that bargain poly barrel I'll be getting my hands on in a few days I think.  If I don't get what I'm looking for out of it, then I can proceed down the rabbit hole of maybe doing the thimble/FX slug liner or some other barrel.  The best I can figure out, I don't think the twist rates are as critical as many think in the .22 barrels shooting stuff in the 25-ish grain area.  It think it comes down more to tuning and finding the right speed/projectile to work with the barrel.  Still, I would like to continue to hear people's ideas and thoughts on this barrel thing.  I feel like there is a lot of very good info that is showing up in this thread that may not otherwise be in one thread, so lets keep it going  

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, the 1-16 twist I have in the liner from Brownells shoots the 39 gr very well. the shorter bullet from Denis's decked mold shoots fair.  I do see a bit of tail wagging past 80 yards though. It does make a difference.
the 1-16 39 gr combo is shooting in still air 1/2" most times when the RS II's trigger will corporate. And it still shoots better than most of  the .25's bullets in the wind. Seems it has a good bc.


That being said, the 39 gr. bullet I am currently shooting did not shoot well in his barrel. they are both 1-16 bought at the same time from Brownells. So no hard and fast rule apparently.  I have a 1-20 that will be here tomorrow or wed. Supposedly with this weather, Grrrrr+ Grrrrr! man I hate cold weather.



I will be able to test the different twist with the same bullets in the same platform. Should tell a tail. I am waiting for the cf tubing and more brass to make either the thimble, or bolt. Or both. LOL

[Rallyshark]

Donny, the 1-16 twist I have in the liner from Brownells shoots the 39 gr very well. the shorter bullet from Denis's decked mold shoots fair.  I do see a bit of tail wagging past 80 yards though. It does make a difference.
the 1-16 39 gr combo is shooting in still air 1/2" most times when the RS II's trigger will corporate. And it still shoots better than most of  the .25's bullets in the wind. Seems it has a good bc.


That being said, the 39 gr. bullet I am currently shooting did not shoot well in his barrel. they are both 1-16 bought at the same time from Brownells. So no hard and fast rule apparently.  I have a 1-20 that will be here tomorrow or wed. Supposedly with this weather, Grrrrr+ Grrrrr! man I hate cold weather.



I will be able to test the different twist with the same bullets in the same platform. Should tell a tail. I am waiting for the cf tubing and more brass to make either the thimble, or bolt. Or both. LOL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are referring to the powder burner barrel, right?  I do have that one stipulation on my barrel that it can also handle some pellets, if need be. 

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, the TJ's pb barrels are perfectly capable of shooting pellets just fine. The slug/pellet barrel from JSAR are pb liners. And far higher quality than most any factory pellet barrel. 


Is your goal paper punching at short ranges. Say 30 yards. stick with pellets and forget slugs. It can be done. but takes research.


Hunting, or longer ranges, Nothing in pellets can compete. Nothing. Only the need to put a drag chute on your projectiles to greatly limit range  would call for a pellet. Once you start shooting them, with the much better wind resistance. less drop, and hugly heavier impact, Well, I don't buy pellets. Ever!

[rkr]

Donny, the 1-16 twist I have in the liner from Brownells shoots the 39 gr very well. the shorter bullet from Denis's decked mold shoots fair.  I do see a bit of tail wagging past 80 yards though. It does make a difference.
the 1-16 39 gr combo is shooting in still air 1/2" most times when the RS II's trigger will corporate. And it still shoots better than most of  the .25's bullets in the wind. Seems it has a good bc.


That being said, the 39 gr. bullet I am currently shooting did not shoot well in his barrel. they are both 1-16 bought at the same time from Brownells. So no hard and fast rule apparently.  I have a 1-20 that will be here tomorrow or wed. Supposedly with this weather, Grrrrr+ Grrrrr! man I hate cold weather.



I will be able to test the different twist with the same bullets in the same platform. Should tell a tail. I am waiting for the cf tubing and more brass to make either the thimble, or bolt. Or both. LOL

It will be interesting to hear how that 1:20 twist works with slugs, I use 1:20 in my .357 and short slugs. My understanding is that a tighter twist would be good in .22, something in 1:12-1:16 range depending on the bullet length.

Here's data from LWs website (in millimeters), as you can see airgun barrels have same groove size as .22lr allowing them to be used with pellets as well:

Bore-Groove
.22 Airgun 5.46-5.62
.22lr 5.49-5.62
.22 Hornet 5.51-5.64
.22Mag/.222 Rem/.223Rem 5.56-5.69

I think that a .22 Hornet would actually be a rather good pellet/bullet barrel as it comes with 15.4" twist rate.

[Hobbyman2007]

Of the multiple .22 caliber barrels I have , the Impact slug liner shoots best ( no surprise) and a close second is the Evanix . Both are real close to 1:16” twist and both shoot pellets and bullets equally well. To be fair I haven’t really had a chance to shoot enough lightweight bullets ,say under 30 grain from either much past 40 yards . I’m interested in the slower twist .

I wonder if the Eun Jin ( big OD) pellets would work in a .22lr barrel.

[Rallyshark]

Knife, I've shot slugs in the .22 poly barrel I had on one of my other guns, and it absolutely loved the NSA 21 gr, but NSA isn't making those anymore, so I don't know how his new offerings would do yet.  So yep, I'm very familiar with the benefit of slugs over pellets   I'm not a paper puncher most of the time, but I do shoot targets every once in a while.  The fact that I'm getting another LW poly barrel for basically free, dictates that I give that one a try though,lol!

rkr,  I didn't even realize that LW's pb barrels were that close to the air gun barrels in specs?!  I see they have 8 lands vs 12 too.  I bet those would work great with the right slugs.  I need to keep that in mind down the road.

Denis,  If I were going to do the thimble thing, an FX slug liner would likely be my first choice to try, with some CF sleeving, of course. 

All very good info guys!

 

[K.O.]

Of the multiple .22 caliber barrels I have , the Impact slug liner shoots best ( no surprise) and a close second is the Evanix . Both are real close to 1:16” twist and both shoot pellets and bullets equally well. To be fair I haven’t really had a chance to shoot enough lightweight bullets ,say under 30 grain from either much past 40 yards . I’m interested in the slower twist .

I wonder if the Eun Jin ( big OD) pellets would work in a .22lr barrel.

I have pushed them thru a older very seasoned Marlin Model 60 barrel (microgroove) and it looked like chances where good...head and skirt had good engagement... In the Model 883 .22 WMR microgroove barrel it looks like the nose will bore ride with good skirt engagement...

[KnifeMaker]

The barrel I just got in Tues. afternoon is in the shop curing to the cf tubing as I type this.


Denis and I have already installed the 1-16 twist for the full length NOE slugs, and the 1-20 is for a shorter lighter slug.


I made a modded thimble and permanently attached it to the barrel, and have two cf sleeves (tubes carbon twill), installed. an 8x10 mm and a 11x14. I will probably add  one more soon.


Denis, you said the FX. Brownells lioner in it, or you trying he FX slug liner?


If weather permits, I will test tomorrow night.


Next project, the .172. No mold for the short .22 or the .172 yet. but Denis was gracious enough to allow me to cast a good bit of the 29 gr decked NOE mold .224 bullets. 


I also modded the .257 mag. for the RS II to shoot the .22's. When hunting vermin, I don't have time to single load. LOL. that, and the RS is a pain to single load. 


Fingers crossed Guys!  Wish me luck.


Mike

[Blutroop]

Mike, what gun are you building your .172 on? I was able to fire my .172 prod/disco/double and got 739 fps with a 26 gr bullet. Will your 39gr .224 bullets fit in a prod mag?

[KnifeMaker]

Mike, what gun are you building your .172 on? I was able to fire my .172 prod/disco/double and got 739 fps with a 26 gr bullet. Will your 39gr .224 bullets fit in a prod mag?

It is a highly modded Rainstorm II. All ports, and valve have been modded in it. Wait just a sec. and I will try an MRod mag. I don't have a Prod sadly.


They barely fit the MRod mag. I may have used a ball nose end mill to help. I don't remember now. So many mod's over such a long period of time. Getting old ya know. LOL 


 

[Rallyshark]

Okay guys, I got my hands on that LW barrel from my friend that was never finished getting machined.  Turns out, it isn't a polygon.  It is a standard rifled choked barrel.  The good news is, I will still have more than enough barrel to work with, as I'll only have to chop off about 2" at the breech end.  This barrel has a pretty tight bore from my measurements.  Measuring the grooves, I'm getting .216 at the muzzle end and .219 at the breech end.  Of course, my measurements/calipers could be off a bit.  Still, that is quite a bit tighter than the .216 land/.221 groove listed as the specs by LW.   For comparison, my Hatsan barrel is .221 groove at the muzzle.  I pushed a pellet and a NSA slug through it, and it looked like the grooves and lands were riding them.  In other words, the entire surface was marked.  That could be due to some of the machining that was done on the breech end though.  I will re-test the push through after I get it chopped and cleaned up(hopefully tomorrow).  I'll also re-measure too. 

Is it just me, or is that pretty tight for a LW barrel?  I measured two other Hatsan barrels in .22, and they ranged .219-.221 groove at the muzzle fwiw. 

[K.O.]

" I measured two other Hatsan barrels in .22, and they ranged .219-.221 groove at the muzzle fwiw. "

I think you meant at the Breech...

My AT44 long is about .220 at the breech maybe a .2197... it is .215 groove at muzzle... done with a Fowler mic and a .223 slug...

have a 14"  airforce surplus L.W. .22 barrel it seems to be about .2204 at the breech end and .2157 at choke...

Keep hoping I hit the lotto then I promise to try a CZ 455-457 barrel..   .212 bore by their specs...

[KnifeMaker]

Donny, people keep telling me I'm wrong when I give my l/w specs always quoting the posted specs. Well, "ALL" L/W's I have here are under the published specs. Seems they need to rewrite their specifications. LOL!


I never take the spec's  a barrel maker to heart. Nor molds for that matter. Seems most are off. MP mold specs were WAY Off. They sell a .257 mold that is only a .251. GRRRRR!!!
Mike

[Rallyshark]

" I measured two other Hatsan barrels in .22, and they ranged .219-.221 groove at the muzzle fwiw. "

I think you meant at the Breech...

My AT44 long is about .220 at the breech maybe a .2197... it is .215 groove at muzzle... done with a Fowler mic and a .223 slug...

have a 14"  airforce surplus L.W. .22 barrel it seems to be about .2204 at the breech end and .2157 at choke...

Keep hoping I hit the lotto then I promise to try a CZ 455-457 barrel..   .212 bore by their specs...

No sir, I mean at the muzzle.  I was getting .219 at the breech, and .216 at the muzzle.  It has pretty shallow grooves too, so I'm hesitant to do too much polishing on that choke end.  That barrel is tight for sure.  I pushed a BBT 30 grain through it and it was a bear to get through there, especially the choke end.  It pretty much engaged the grooves and lands with that one.  I bet it will be one heck of a pellet shooter, but not so much for the slugs probably.  I had one Hatsan barrel that I measured .216 at the muzzle, but that barrel went with a gun I sold.  The other two Hatsan barrels I have are measuring larger. 

Donny, people keep telling me I'm wrong when I give my l/w specs always quoting the posted specs. Well, "ALL" L/W's I have here are under the published specs. Seems they need to rewrite their specifications. LOL!


I never take the spec's  a barrel maker to heart. Nor molds for that matter. Seems most are off. MP mold specs were WAY Off. They sell a .257 mold that is only a .251. GRRRRR!!!
Mike

Yeah, I'm thinking the LW barrels probably vary a bit, depending on the age of the tooling?  I was really hoping that barrel that I got would be a little looser, but it was essentially free.  Kinda hard to complain about that   I'm thinking I may try to get my hands on another barrel to play with..

[KnifeMaker]

Or you could stop playing the barrel lottery. You are trying to get barrels to fit the bullets. Kinda back ars backeards. Size the choke!


Heck NOE sizing system and inserts are low cost. Much less than barrels. Should yo pick another gun, your still in business. The different size inserts are only 9.99 bucks each. The die body ie 39. bucks Far cheaper than any good barrel, and can size for many different barrels of different sizes and or calibers. 


Mike.

[Rallyshark]

Or you could stop playing the barrel lottery. You are trying to get barrels to fit the bullets. Kinda back ars backeards. Size the choke!


Heck NOE sizing system and inserts are low cost. Much less than barrels. Should yo pick another gun, your still in business. The different size inserts are only 9.99 bucks each. The die body ie 39. bucks Far cheaper than any good barrel, and can size for many different barrels of different sizes and or calibers. 


Mike.

My initial plan still stands.  I just happened to have got this LW barrel for free, so I would be silly not to see what I can do with it.  Right now, I'm trying to decide if I want to go with a barrel with known performance like an FX slug liner, or if I want to try out an LW Polygon unchoked barrel.  I think my deciding factor is going to be which one do I think I'll have more trouble fitting to the gun.  I'm still learning what I can get away with on this cheapo mini lathe   

[Rallyshark]

I went ahead and ordered an FX slug liner A to play with.  Can anyone tell me what the OD of those liners are?  I'll figure it out when it arrives of course, but it would be nice if I could go ahead and gets some CF tubing on the way.  I also ordered some brass rod to fit to the liner on the breech end.  This should be fun, if I can make it work