Bullpup trials...awnser is "no"

[mackeral5]

You gave it another try and should be applauded for being willing to revisit something you were previously opposed to. 

I am still a fan of the pups, but can't argue against the fleas that come with the dog---awkward off hand, hold sensitive, etc.  But to me, shortness, lightweight with proportionately high shot count and power make those fleas much easier to live with.

[anti-squirrel]

Still not seeing bullpuppyness as a universal solution...although the bullpup fans have put up a good argument, it still boils down to shortness.

Do gree that bigger critters would be better taken with higher power....just don't see where shortness is a universal solution.

So I'm going to give the bullpuppy some credit for shortness with power. HAs some drawbacks that fans evidently aren't willing to see....and evidently, from the reactions, some plus points I haven't yet been able to find.

It is stimulating me to pull the working parts of this one out of it's puppish stock, fit it into a traditional stock, add a "normal" trigger, and try it that way.

Robert, I bolded the part where you put words in our mouths.  Those of us who like bullpups see them, just like, carbines, rifles, and pistols, as having tradeoffs from one platform to another and are willing to live with those tradeoffs.  I never thought I'd like bullpups, but after shooting a few, I appreciate the places (listed in one of my earlier posts in this thread) where they would excel for me.  For what I currently hunt, my PP700 suffices.  If I wanted more power in a given small size, I'd be stuck either with a carbine or 'pup, and both have pros and cons.  And having swung around to shoot critters from a suspended harness, I really wish I'd had a bullpup back then (never mind having a PCP!)

Now- if you compare all the various bullpups out there from the $2k version down to the Flashpup, you'll see various configurations- some leaner than others- and some that are very tall and others that slip by with svelte grace.  The Priest, for example- offers a small vertical profile, as does the Impact, when comparing to the Bullboss and Flashpup.  But then, we're also talking a huge difference in price, never mind the sheer mass and bulk of the Hatsans.  The Kral Puncher Breaker is a much cleaner execution of a bullpup than the Flashpup, IMO, and it handles notably easier.

In the end, these are all opinions.  Find what works for you and run with it.

[Motorhead]

Don't like em ... don't buy or use one .

Dang how simple is that

[anti-squirrel]

Don't like em ... don't buy or use one .

Dang how simple is that

Wait a sec now, Scott.  You mean I'm not being forced to like them here? 

BTW, righteous GIF!

[Pelletjunkie]

My Taipan Veteran is truly a remarkable shooting gun. But only off a bag or bipod. Truly miserable offhand. They are compact powerful guns but it takes twice the effort to shoot one as good as you shoot a regular rifle but it can be done. Not worth it for some and I don’t blame them.

Frank,
it took alot of practice to get the tai-vet to shoot good off-hand.
i just through it all together while teaching myself to shoot left handed,
and both tasks became natural. 

When I can buy another stock for my Taipan, I will take about a pound of wood off it and make it a better offhand shooter. Right now it’s like I am holding a 2x6 with a grip. Like someone mentioned, drop the Taipan action into a Brocock simi-bullpup stock, oh my, what a gun that would be.

[gendoc]

When I can buy another stock for my Taipan, I will take about a pound of wood off it and make it a better offhand shooter. Right now it’s like I am holding a 2x6 with a grip. Like someone mentioned, drop the Taipan action into a Brocock simi-bullpup stock, oh my, what a gun that would be.

if its a drop-in fit to the brocock, i'd be interested in that also !!

[Pelletjunkie]

Still not seeing bullpuppyness as a universal solution...although the bullpup fans have put up a good argument, it still boils down to shortness.

Do gree that bigger critters would be better taken with higher power....just don't see where shortness is a universal solution.

So I'm going to give the bullpuppy some credit for shortness with power. HAs some drawbacks that fans evidently aren't willing to see....and evidently, from the reactions, some plus points I haven't yet been able to find.

It is stimulating me to pull the working parts of this one out of it's puppish stock, fit it into a traditional stock, add a "normal" trigger, and try it that way.

Robert, I bolded the part where you put words in our mouths.  Those of us who like bullpups see them, just like, carbines, rifles, and pistols, as having tradeoffs from one platform to another and are willing to live with those tradeoffs.  I never thought I'd like bullpups, but after shooting a few, I appreciate the places (listed in one of my earlier posts in this thread) where they would excel for me.  For what I currently hunt, my PP700 suffices.  If I wanted more power in a given small size, I'd be stuck either with a carbine or 'pup, and both have pros and cons.  And having swung around to shoot critters from a suspended harness, I really wish I'd had a bullpup back then (never mind having a PCP!)

Now- if you compare all the various bullpups out there from the $2k version down to the Flashpup, you'll see various configurations- some leaner than others- and some that are very tall and others that slip by with svelte grace.  The Priest, for example- offers a small vertical profile, as does the Impact, when comparing to the Bullboss and Flashpup.  But then, we're also talking a huge difference in price, never mind the sheer mass and bulk of the Hatsans.  The Kral Puncher Breaker is a much cleaner execution of a bullpup than the Flashpup, IMO, and it handles notably easier.

In the end, these are all opinions.  Find what works for you and run with it.

I agree 100%. There is a big difference in the comfort level and offhand shooting comfort from one manufacturer to another. I have owned several including an Impact, unfortunately the junkiest pup I owned is the greatest feeling offhand. So I dumped a ton of money in it to make it as close to right as possible. These are two 45yrd offhand nighttime victims from last night.

[Ribbonstone]

You ARE required...pretty sure it's in the by-laws (right after the GTA secret handshake but before the decoder ring instructions).

Actually, once set up on a bench or bi-pod, shoot pretty much like any other PCP.

I'd certainly hope spending 4 or 5X as much would have some advantage....while I'm happy enough with the accuracy of this one,I'd be really unhappy if I spent 3X as much.

BUT if you are going to compare a $1.8-2K Bullpup, please do it to a $1.8-2K standard format rifle....just seems unfair other wise (although some times I honestly wonder about  the perfomance cost/benefit).

It's not really in competition with expensive rifles....pretty much equal to other "standard" rifles. Not going to won any bnech rest competition,but for 10 shot groups, don't really see a giant advanatge or disadvantage.

DSCN1926 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

(it was a good day..can just ignor the Urban; the two Hatsans are a more direct comparsion..both Hatsan...bothy about the same air volume...just different shapes/calibers).
DSCN1925 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

As for putting words in folks mouths....if it was a direct quote,I'd have put it in "quotation marks"...if it were an indirect quation, I'd use the old standard of included the person it was attribuited to in the sentence.

Wasn't either of those...just a summation of the information/opinions I gleened from summation of previous tests.

And I still stand by that.  Bullpups have faults...they must have advantages....I've yet to find the big advantage.

So maybe I was totally wrong in HOW I tested it. Bigazz high power scope may have been my first mistake.

So lets assume that shortness has something to do with fast  manuvering in heavy cover/close quarters (if not heavy cover, why would I really want a short rifle?).

So if I'm talking heavy cover, why would I be worried about long range shots....better yet,why would I have gone hunting in heavy cover with a 24X scope in the first place?

[anti-squirrel]

Long range shots?  Nope.  More like full power cuz BPs got full length barrels, not the abbreviated barrel typical for a carbine.  Pros and cons to every platform. 

[Mike -]

Wow, some of you guys are really funny.
Bull pups too tall...as compared to what ?  Most have the SAME sight/scope rail mount dimension off of the barrel as most long rifles..!  Measure'm...I dare you..!  Or are you going to say that .100" is huge..!  So the M14 series rifles with their tall sights off of the barrel are too tall...  Seems that they have put down MANY targets..!

Too tall to control..?  Wow, maybe those of you with this complaint should do some weight lifting, like with more than just the weight of a aluminum can.  Some if not most of your arguments are silly, not willing to adapt excuses. 
You don't visually like them...that's the only accurate excuse for not liking the bull pup design that has been mentioned here.

I could go on, but you anti-guys probably already hate me because of my short post.
I'm new to air guns (and here), but not at all to powder fired long guns and hand guns.  Me, yea, as you may guess, I like the bull pup design.  I have them in my powder fired collection also.  I bought one of the first designs sold in the US, or at least CA. back in the late 70's, the original version of the Steyr, AUG.

My first air rifle as of about 90 or so days ago...an Edgun, Lelya (now with a modified stock), now looking into buying another (different brand)...short rifle..!

Keep shooting what you like, but acting like 4th graders (some) is really unbecoming..!

Mike

[archellas]

OK, ok, I'll bite .....

I have plenty of 'long' airguns and ONLY ONE Bullpup, the Bullboss. I shoot off a stand or bench, so it really makes no difference to me whatsoever. However, when carrying the gun and shooting standing, I DO prefer the way the pup balances, and carries itself.

Now, to be fair, yes it does not balance well VERTICALLY, due to having to put the scope higher up. Because the Bullboss is heavy, I have the smallest ?? scope (UTG 3-12x44 SWAT -glass) that I own on it. It helps compared to some other scopes I had tried.

The main issue for me with pups, is that the charging handle HAS to be close the trigger hand!! The other guns that do that - I cannot afford (read FX). Newer guns seem to be now starting that trend. Reaching back to my neck to charge (whether a lever or a bolt) is NOT going to work for me.

Do I have a preference? NO. The choices are there, so choose whatever you like and enjoy yourself!!

Cheers

[SpeedyBB]

I really thought a bullpup would be easier to offhand since there is less weight further out.
Seems the militaries of the world are moving away from them too. So I've heard.

[oldpro]

 I have owned about every bullpup made at one time as well as many many air rifles both standard and carbine and my latest bullpup the Ataman bp17 is the shortest of them all and the most difficult to shoot for me and this has nothing to do with weight its very light or scope rail etc. etc. its simply the shorter the gun the livelier the muzzle gets and thats just a fact. Do I like the BP17 yes for close shooting inside 40 yards max with a fixed scope magnification other than that I would take a small carbine every time for accuracy beyond 40 yards.  The only advantage a bullpup has over a carbine rifle is it can use a full length barrel and stay compact therefore the power and report afe better than a carbine other than that Im with Ribbs on this. 

[chuckinohio]

  If nothing else, Ribbs puts up yet another post, in a long series of posts, that gets an airgunner to pondering, puzzling and discussing.
 
  My thought on the tippy, top heavy aspect is that it is a result of the trigger hand being located lower due to the pistol grip or thumbhole set up used on virtually all of the pup platforms.
  Couple that with the closer spacing of your support hand due to the compact platform, and you get the top heavy or tippy feeling. Or I could be wrong.....

  I am fascinated with mini carbines like the Ataman Ultra Compact, Vulcan Tactic and the like. The advantage 'to me' of the full blown pup platform is the longer barrel length which allows for full spin up on a pellet.
  Weeds, brush, jungle vines, or crowded bus maneuverability aside, sometimes you just wanna hit em in the bean with as many FPE as you can and do it with a compact easy to carry rig.

  Agree, disagree, like em or not, still a goid topic.

[Ribbonstone]

Did measure....more like 1" higher.  But bullpups aren't the only design that requires that kind of high mounting; AirForce,Rex,and others also need a pretty high scope mount because of their straight stocking (Well...it's not really a "stock" is it?)...so it's not a problem unique to bullpups...just something straight stocking requires.

Chuckinohio's description seems spot on for me and offhand shooting.  Shooting it today (off hand) It did feel better balanced when I used the forward folded bipod legs as my left hand's support (uncomfortable shape and a bit springy..but increasing the distance between my hands did seem to settle it down better).

[oldpro]

Did measure....more like 1" higher.  But bullpups aren't the only design that requires that kind of high mounting; AirForce,Rex,and others also need a pretty high scope mount because of their straight stocking (Well...it's not really a "stock" is it?)...so it's not a problem unique to bullpups...just something straight stocking requires.

Chuckinohio's description seems spot on for me and offhand shooting.  Shooting it today (off hand) It did feel better balanced when I used the forward folded bipod legs as my left hand's support (uncomfortable shape and a bit springy..but increasing the distance between my hands did seem to settle it down better).

I couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with a bullpup till Motörhead showed me how to stand and hold them correctly now I’m much much better. It isn’t a natural feeling thing to stand 90 degrees to the target with your elbows pinched into your sides but it sure stabilizes the short lively muzzle

[Nomadic Pirate]

Wow, some of you guys are really funny.
Bull pups too tall...as compared to what ?  Most have the SAME sight/scope rail mount dimension off of the barrel as most long rifles..!

Wrong,

Doesn't matter how you slice it but since your cheek weld on Pups is the action your scope will ALWAYS be higher then on rifles/carbines,

that's ok if you shooting at known distances, not so much when you hunting and your target distance can change dramatically.

[T3PRanch]

I want to be able to shoot ANYTHING so I own many different guns in many different configurations and strive to be good with them all. Some I like better short and some long. I have them from 30" to over 5' and each is a unique challenge I enjoy immensely. I only sit at a bench when tuning or sighting in. After that it is variable position, holds and terrain shot in. I like dynamic targets and any possible situation I can imagine. If I can be good in any conditions with any gun and any target and any hold at any distance I consider myself a successful shooter.
One oddity in my shooting is that one day I may be spot on with a particular gun and another day I can't hit anything with it but find that on those days a different gun is the ticket for accurate shooting that particular day.

[oldpro]

I can say the Ataman though lively at the barrel is by far the easiest to operate and carry plus it shoulders the best as well

[Motorhead]

Did measure....more like 1" higher.  But bullpups aren't the only design that requires that kind of high mounting; AirForce,Rex,and others also need a pretty high scope mount because of their straight stocking (Well...it's not really a "stock" is it?)...so it's not a problem unique to bullpups...just something straight stocking requires.

Chuckinohio's description seems spot on for me and offhand shooting.  Shooting it today (off hand) It did feel better balanced when I used the forward folded bipod legs as my left hand's support (uncomfortable shape and a bit springy..but increasing the distance between my hands did seem to settle it down better).

I couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with a bullpup till Motörhead showed me how to stand and hold them correctly now I’m much much better. It isn’t a natural feeling thing to stand 90 degrees to the target with your elbows pinched into your sides but it sure stabilizes the short lively muzzle

Yup ... Got to get those elbows in along side your ribs and the PUP becomes super stable to shoot offhand.  In all honesty can shoot a PUP offhand far better than a long gun.
There just different, some will like them or own one for the sake of having a different type gun, where others simply can't or won't even care.

Ask yourself this .... If RIFLES and so great, why have a PISTOL      Same argument, many similar reasons to the PUP debate.

This threads dead IMO.