Bullpup trials...awnser is "no"

[Dbez1]

have yall anti-bullpup guys even ever shot a Taipan veteran ?

just a warning..... the hook is very sharp and it will get you 

+1 John.  Honestly, I don’t care for the bullpup design in general but where else am I going to find a gun for the price that’s built like a tank, very accurate out of the box, a superb trigger, and doesn’t break down?  I want to shoot, not tinker. Yes, it takes a little getting used to, but as another member here said...every time you pull the trigger it brings a smile to your face. However, if Taipan built a conventional rifle, I would jump on it. JMO

[anti-squirrel]

Should I reiterate what said in my first post?

Full-length barrel in compact package.  Good for offhand shooting with the gun held in close to the body.  Locations?  Think tree-stands.  Tight quarters- not just dense forest but dense forest with heavy underbrush.  A good example is new-growth woods here in VA where creepers and waist-to-head high plants (not just trees) are all you really see.  I could see them being very effective in a cherry-picker or bucket truck doing pest control-less gun overhanging the edge of a long drop, too.  I had to shoot a lot out of bucket-trucks during my stint in pest control- never was fond of the overhang with either a pumper or springer... though I also had to shoot pigeons suspended from a 5-point harness 30 feet above the CA Aqueduct in Morgan Hill underneath an overpass- and I would have given several bodyparts for a bullpup at that time!

A carbine by definition is typically a shortened rifle, so while a carbine is great at mobility, the bullpup is even better if you want a full length barrel.  Some bullpups are horrible designs.  The Hatsans are just top-heavy and quite ugly- despite being very functional tools.  The Taipain and EdGuns are the opposite end of that spectrum.

Ultimately, bullpups have some functionality advatages over standard rifles, just as rifles have some over bullpups.  I think ultimately, it's a choice much like wearing shorty boots versus mid-calf boots.  Each has advantages.

[Scotchmo]

I've recently started using a bullpup. I like the way it handles. Half way between a pistol and rifle. Also, I can have a full length barrel without requiring a super long hard case. That makes for a more compact/efficient package and easier transport.

There is no scope in the way of the loading port so they are very easy to single load. My standard configuration scoped PCPs are awkward to single load so I almost always use magazines with them.

For precision shooting, balance is nice in the sitting and kneeling positions.

[Ribbonstone]

If it's brushy/close quarter conditions (where shortness is a plus) why would you need long range power? If it's open country where long range is the rule of the day,why would you need a short stumpy rifle?

I'll give you that it's a "style" issue...you like 'em or you don't.  Setting aside the "style" issue (and I'll freely admit, it could look like a dog-$)((# so long as it performs.... I can't see where short-n-stumpy is a plus out in the wide open areas (bullpup or carbine)....or where long rifles/long range power is a plus in the "thick nasty".

But maybe you can talk me into it.....even though it seems counterintuitive, I'll consider the argument for a long range open country bullpup.

[coolhand]

I love my Edgun R5 .30 standard! Until you've shot one you can't possibly understand. JMHO.

[Ribbonstone]

Ok...lets assume I'll never know.

But I'll ask you.  If you added 4" of butt pad and moved the pistol grip and trigger back 4", how would it be less amazing?

[SteveP-52]

Have the Flashpup in .25 and while it ticks the boxes for lightweight and maneuverable, that rear bolt leaves some to be desired. If they'd used the side lever action like my Galatian has and mounted it in the middle (someone already mentioned the Wildcat), the rifle would be easier and more fun to shoot and being 6 pounds lighter than the above mentioned Galatian doesn't hurt one bit.
Have a bipod if i want to shoot from the bench, but for now it has a Vism pistol grip/weapons light mounted on the front that seems to balance things out better for offhand night critter shooting and I'm well past any possible return so I'll just keep playing with it and maybe it will grow more on me.

[Scotchmo]

Ok...lets assume I'll never know.

But I'll ask you.  If you added 4" of butt pad and moved the pistol grip and trigger back 4", how would it be less amazing?

The scope would obstruct the loading port.

It would not balance the same.

And it would not fit in my gun case.

[Ribbonstone]

Eh,,,it is a style. Don't do anything "better" than other rifles in the same price range. Pups are short, which has some situations is a plus....and some situations where it isn't.

[Bullfrog]

If it's brushy/close quarter conditions (where shortness is a plus) why would you need long range power?

Its not "long range" power. Its just about power and/or efficiency. Not to mention an extra helping of quietness. As in, "I'm going to shoot a whitetail deer at 50 yards" kind of power and "I want as much extra FPS as I can squeeze out of my tune while conserving as much air as possible." Or "I'm going to brain shoot a hog at 50 yards, but I also want enough efficiency to also shoot 12 squirrels as I sit in during the same hunt without a refill and stay within my bell curve" kind of balance between power and efficiency a longer barrel provides. Sure, you can squeeze extra power out of a short barrel with the right valving. And you can turn your power way down to have more efficiency with the short barrel. But the longer barrel lets you have both higher power and higher efficiency together.

The maneuverability not about swinging the gun around in brushy undergrowth as if the hunter is belly-crawling thru a briar patch. Its about swinging the gun around on a tree stand or out of a blind (such as a pop-up blind). Having the shortest gun possible makes all of the difference in the world when your withdrawing the gun from one window of the blind and aiming it out another window without it rubbing up against blind material, poking far out of the blind, or being awkward to move on shooting sticks. Or when shifting the gun around on a shooting rest across a tree stand.

The bullpup design is for the hunter that doesn't want to sacrifice power and efficiency while keeping the shortness of a carbine. And I suppose it doesn't have to be only the hunter who wants to have a carbine's shortness without the negative consequences that go with shorter barrels.

The drawback to a regular rifle with a long barrel is that its more awkward to handle. The drawback to a carbine is that is sacrifices maximum power and efficiency in exchange for easier maneuvering. The only drawback I can really see to a bullpup is personal to the shooter. Either the design is one that the shooter can handle with comfort. Or it isn't, in which case the shooter who can't gel with a bullpup is basically in the same position as the shooter who cannot gel with a long-length barrel.

Where barrel length makes such a difference in air rifles for power and efficiency purposes, it really makes all of the sense in the word from a performance standpoint that bullpups would find a niche in airgun design.

[Bullfrog]

Eh,,,it is a style. Don't do anything "better" than other rifles in the same price range. Pups are short, which has some situations is a plus....and some situations where it isn't.

Take two airguns of the same length. Lets say 34". Both are identical in every way, except that one is a bullpup and has a 24" barrel, while the other is a carbine with a 16". All other variables are the same. Valving, air tank size, ect. are all identical.

Can you really say the bullpup with the 24" barrel isn't going to do something "better" than the gun with the 16" barrel in terms of maximum power or efficiency?

[Ribbonstone]

Not going to link efficency with power...if anything,it's EASIER to get an efficient (in terms of air use for power out put)at lower power than at higher power (it's that "diminihsing returns" thing).

Will frrely give the pups their shortness....that's why they exist...and about the only thing they have to offer over the same air volume/barrel length/tuning.

Will aslo freely give you that 26" of barrel (with the same power plant) is going to give more energy for the air use than 16" of barrel.

But in the close quarters where shortness really counts,don't really need the extra power for airgun type critters (lets say squirrels/rabbits/etc.). If it is close enough cover where shortness is a big plus, won't be getting the long range shots where speed/energy is really needed.

Will keep this one...although fell a lot more free to seriously mod it to maximize the bullpupishness.   

Shoud and built in LDC is coming off, leaving a gare barrel and a detachable LDC. Will attach the LDC for when I need quiet,detach it when I need serious shortness and don't care about noise (which is mostly all the tine duing hunting season...out with the firearms guys, a bare-barrel PCP is still quieter than firearms).

It's not that bullpuppyness is a bad thing...it's just that I haven't found it to be a univerisally good thing...and yet that seems to set some folks off.

[Bullfrog]

Not going to link efficency with power...if anything,it's EASIER to get an efficient (in terms of air use for power out put)at lower power than at higher power (it's that "diminihsing returns" thing).

Will frrely give the pups their shortness....that's why they exist...and about the only thing they have to offer over the same air volume/barrel length/tuning.

Will aslo freely give you that 26" of barrel (with the same power plant) is going to give more energy for the air use than 16" of barrel.

But in the close quarters where shortness really counts,don't really need the extra power for airgun type critters (lets say squirrels/rabbits/etc.). If it is close enough cover where shortness is a big plus, won't be getting the long range shots where speed/energy is really needed.

Will keep this one...although fell a lot more free to seriously mod it to maximize the bullpupishness.   

Shoud and built in LDC is coming off, leaving a gare barrel and a detachable LDC. Will attach the LDC for when I need quiet,detach it when I need serious shortness and don't care about noise (which is mostly all the tine duing hunting season...out with the firearms guys, a bare-barrel PCP is still quieter than firearms).

It's not that bullpuppyness is a bad thing...it's just that I haven't found it to be a univerisally good thing...and yet that seems to set some folks off.

Many of us consider coons, possums, hogs, deer, turkeys, bobcats, and other medium sized animals normal "airgun critters." Thus we have to reject your premise that power doesn't matter at close range.

I don't think anyone is getting "set off." You asked for input and we're giving it. That some of us are rejecting some of your points isn't being isn't being set off. Its just friendly disagreement.

How many bullpups do you see in my signature? I may have my own reasons for rarely using bullpups. But I'd be intellectually amiss if I pretended they didn't give an advantage in how they make long-barreled gun very maneuverable, or acknowledging that long-barreled guns give performance advantages over short-barrelled guns.

[Pelletjunkie]

My Taipan Veteran is truly a remarkable shooting gun. But only off a bag or bipod. Truly miserable offhand. They are compact powerful guns but it takes twice the effort to shoot one as good as you shoot a regular rifle but it can be done. Not worth it for some and I don’t blame them.

[Pelletjunkie]

Shot 2 raccoons so far tonight with my .25 P15. Had to move my light from the rail to the scope. Gun was too dang tall to get out my window with the light on the bottom and the towering bullpup scope mounting position. Compact yes, lengthwise. Not so compact in the other dimension.

[Ribbonstone]

Still not seeing bullpuppyness as a universal solution...although the bullpup fans have put up a good argument, it still boils down to shortness.

Do gree that bigger critters would be better taken with higher power....just don't see where shortness is a universal solution.

So I'm going to give the bullpuppy some credit for shortness with power.  HAs some drawbacks that fans evidently aren't willing to see....and evidently, from the reactions, some plus points I haven't yet been able to find.

It is stimulating me to pull the working parts of this one out of it's puppish stock, fit it into a traditional stock, add a "normal" trigger, and try it that way.

[mobilehomer]

Gents, this thread is about OPINION!!! If you like pups - GOOD FOR YOU!! If you don't like them - GOOD FOR YOU!! Nothing anyone says will sway OPINIONS one way or the other. It's your money, spend it the way you like!

[gendoc]

My Taipan Veteran is truly a remarkable shooting gun. But only off a bag or bipod. Truly miserable offhand. They are compact powerful guns but it takes twice the effort to shoot one as good as you shoot a regular rifle but it can be done. Not worth it for some and I don’t blame them.

Frank,
it took alot of practice to get the tai-vet to shoot good off-hand.
i just through it all together while teaching myself to shoot left handed,
and both tasks became natural. 

[Springrrrr]

They should be about half the price of a full sizer.

[kkarmical]

Still not seeing bullpuppyness as a universal solution...although the bullpup fans have put up a good argument, it still boils down to shortness.

Do gree that bigger critters would be better taken with higher power....just don't see where shortness is a universal solution.

I believe that no one can come up with anything that is going to make that flashpup feel to you the way that my bullpups feel to me, you're either going to like the compact fit or not.
In my hands due to my experience the shorter the gun the better it feels.  Obviously you prefer the fit and feel of a more conventional rifle, so that compact almost cramped feel the BP isn't a fit.