Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned



Author Topic: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned  (Read 1202 times))

Offline Motorhead

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 12:09:50 AM »
Being an original owner of a DIANA 75HV GISS 10 meter rifle .... When purchased circa @ 1981 was nearing 700.00
Even then the guns got a lot of stamp steel spot welded parts & pieces that when viewed side by side to say an FWB 300 is crude and unrefined.   yet in shooting is like magic !! being so smooth and virtually recoiless having a trigger that is simply AWESOME !!!

Now here some 40 years later could such a gun be made again for nearly the same coin .... WOW, nice hat trick if it could.  add to it being of greater power and a more practical air weapon to own & use as a sporting arm ... yea you got my attention !
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 01:18:15 AM »
I want one, maybe 2?

In a heartbeat. 8)

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Offline Yogi

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 01:19:19 AM »
If you have ever shot one you would know. ;)

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Offline EricFR

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 03:04:10 AM »
If it has PCP power level (+25 fpe), in .22 or .25 and totaly recoilless, why not?
I don't have any PCPs, I'm sometimes thinking about it. But I don't like the idea you need a bottle or a pump and taking a quarter of an hour for filling it... I'm not talking about 100+ fpe where hand pumping will need an hour or more for 30 shots (or less) ! lol.
I really would love the FX Boss, but the price and half liter bottle hum...
I love the idea of a self powered rifle, all in one, that's why I like more springers. The only drawbacks are, one shot, limited power and not recoilless for high power / long range (80-100 yds).
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2019, 01:23:03 PM »
Thanks, my friends!

All your opinions are extremely interesting and valid.

At present it is just an idea we're toying with. We will have a bunch of meetings at IWA and after, and then we will know better if this will become a project for 2020-2021, or not.

I am, personally, not too inclined to the "jack of all trades, master of none" thing. I do understand the need to have 12 ft-lbs as a base power point. And then have a 5.5 ft-lbs version for those that do not want to bother with PCP's for Match Style shooting, nor do they want to go to the heavy cocking forces of the SSP's. But there are ways where almost the same rifle can produce the two different power levels, however the changes are at the heart of the gun (and it is not only the springs), so people wanting to do two styles would have to get two guns. In the end it is probably for the better, because the stock's dimensions and shapes can be so different between games that it is not only the powerplant what you need to worry about.

In spring-piston guns, weight and power go together. I do not see a technical problem getting 12 ft-lbs out of a 9 lbs gun. Getting 25 . . .  that is wishful thinking. But maybe 14-16 is doable and it is the region where good hunting pellets in 0.177" are most accurate anyway.

The methods of old were what they were. Modern methods should allow us to make properly all the parts. PERSONALLY, I like the durability and corrosion resistance of the ceramic matte finish (not a paint) better than the polished blued steel, but I understand that aesthetics are personal things. That is a relatively  minor point.

And yes, Minelli would definitely be involved if we go forwards, LOL!

Again, thanks my friends, thanks for enlightening us!

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM
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Offline EricFR

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2019, 04:19:02 PM »
The D54/56 has already 22+ fpe and is "recoil free". If weight is not a concern it's possible indeed. Yep 14-16 seems quite interesting. Would it be the same principle as a Whiscombe? This guy was just a genius, but it's such a sensible mechanic and totaly out of price. Too bad it hasn't been more exploited and no more made.
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Offline dan_house

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2019, 04:46:13 PM »
IVe got a D75 with that system in it.

Id buy another one, but now that Hector has mentioned it, I'll wait and see what that group is up to.....

Ill echo the 12 ft lbs request, and my biggest complaint with the D75 is the lack of stock adjustments. My SSP Anschutz SuperAirre 2002 has what I consider stock perfection, at least ergonomically......

synthetic would be fine as long as I can fit it and adjust it to fit......

ANd I'll also volunteer to test it in the high montana alpine deserts and snowfields...... 8)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 04:50:48 PM by dan_house »
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Offline Louis Loria II

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2019, 05:43:08 PM »
Recoil-less Spring-Piston Airgun?

Ideas, comments, and pro-positive suggestions welcome.

TIA!





HM

I would love to try one out. As for price? For the right gun, yes.

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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2019, 08:18:08 PM »
The D54/56 has already 22+ fpe and is "recoil free". If weight is not a concern it's possible indeed. Yep 14-16 seems quite interesting. Would it be the same principle as a Whiscombe? This guy was just a genius, but it's such a sensible mechanic and totaly out of price. Too bad it hasn't been more exploited and no more made.

Eric;

The Giss was patented in 1956 by Kurt Giss and Mayer & Grammelspacher (DIANA), John Whiscombe started making airguns in the late 80's and 90's, last guns made were probably around year 2K.
Whiscombe used EXACTLY the Giss mechanism, but he inserted a ratchet mechanism to allow for multiple strokes cocking.

Whiscombes are notoriously temperature sensitive, that is why you do not see them much in FT (I only know of two that have competed in the World's with them) and they usually bring problems along the three days of competition due to their complexity.

The sled patent was also a DIANA original patent. FWB licensed it for their 300's series. Anschütz followed a different route. Diana used the Giss for Match airguns until it was replaced by the SSP (DIANA 100). After that, DIANA only made KK Match guns under special order.

Anyway, it is just an idea we're toying around.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

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Offline Eddie_E

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2019, 08:32:23 PM »
Could a modern sled type action be made a little cheaper than the Giss system? The used market seems to favor the FWB300 over the Diana 60's and 75's, even though the FWB 300 doesn't work as well above the typical 10M energy. (9 FPE?)
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2019, 01:04:21 AM »
There was a guy in the UK a few years ago who made a recoilless spring gun, cancelling springs if I remember.
He was trying to get funding to go into production.  Guess he never got it. :-\

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Offline El Greco

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2019, 08:25:43 AM »
Honestly,
I would just be happy if my Diana 54 air king was available in a synthetic stock. Even a pound off would make a difference.
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Offline MartyMcFly

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2019, 09:16:59 AM »
Honestly,
I would just be happy if my Diana 54 air king was available in a synthetic stock. Even a pound off would make a difference.

I’d be interested in this idea as well. A lighter 54 sounds great, assuming that the current weight doesn’t provide the majority of the recoil dampening performance and the sled is doing its work.

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Offline dtdtdtdt

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2019, 10:05:10 AM »
A lighter 54 would be great to have.  My 300S is at 5fpe, the 54 in .177 is about 17, the 54 in 20 is about 20.  Each serves up dead chipmunks whenever the need arises.  All shoot well.  The 54s with scopes mounted are around 12lb each. 

The comment about some of the recoil reduction being from the stock weight?  I don't think so, as I shoot a lot off a bench and don't see/feel any significant movement.  Actually when I do my followthrough properly (about half the time?) the crosshairs end up exactly on the center of the bull and the pellet does too. 

My interest in the Giss system would be to see if I could get even better accuracy than I already have.  I could move over to PCP guns but just don't need the additional pile of toys in my gun room!!  I only have so many corners to fill!!! 
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2019, 04:29:30 PM »
Honestly,
I would just be happy if my Diana 54 air king was available in a synthetic stock. Even a pound off would make a difference.

Ahhhh!, but that is ANOTHER project, LOL!

You'll hear more about this after IWA.

;-)







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Offline dtdtdtdt

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2019, 05:19:03 PM »
I haven't weighed them separately but think most of the mass is metal not wood.   I'll take the stocks off and weigh each piece and report back in couple days. 

I switched a 30/06 from wood to synthetic a couple years ago.  The negative was a move in the center of mass from my hand to definitely front heavy.  Weight reduction was about 1lb. 

Maybe not such a neat idea????
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:21:55 PM by dtdtdtdt »
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Offline mbouchpcp

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2019, 07:08:41 PM »
Two more comments to add.    First, a 12 ft/lbs (+) rifle should have either a anschultz or a picatinney rail if for no other reason than to hang a removable sling stud.  I can however, foresee hunters wanting to hang a bi-pod or set of sticks off the front as well.  I personally would like to mount a adapter block that would sit within a front rest.

Any rail should be long enough so that an attached device can be positioned at the proper balance point for the rifle and attachment.

Second, the bottom of the buttstock should be parallel to the barrel so that the muzzle will not rise when a rear sand bag is being adjusted under the rifle.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.
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Offline gonzav

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2019, 10:18:03 PM »
Hector,
I will be interested if the rifle is accurate (30 shots inside 25mm at 50m) and consistent (temperature insensitive). I do not mind a heavy rifle but it needs to be well balanced - not front heavy. A field target stock would be an option of course. It would have, adjustable cheek piece, thumb up pistol grip and safety position. A fat (tall) forearm belly for shooting off the knee and standing.
Regards,
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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2019, 07:24:06 AM »
Hector,

I like "springers" because they are "always ready".  I appreciate the lack of vibration from PCPs, but like "simple".  So, a springer with the shot cycle of a pneumatic interests me:

Dual opposing pistons, with only one "active", seems like paying for and carting the weight of a 5 liter V8, running always on only 4 cylinders.

If you want a low power version of a dual opposing piston rifle, could you achieve that by having two sears?  A shorter stroke for 5.5 ft.lb, and a longer one for close to 12?  That way, the user gets to choose what is most useful for their immediate applicable.  An extra sear slot in each piston won't add a lot of cost...

Regardless of power, unless I am shooting off a bench or prone, weight and balance are very important to me.  Ideally, 6 to 7 lb; and shorter than 42"; although feel and balance are more important.  An 8+lb weight, shooting at only 5.5 ft.lb sounds like a dedicated target rifle.  I prefer a bit more power, configured as a sporter.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 08:23:22 AM by subscriber »
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Offline Springrrrr

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Re: Open Question: Would you buy, at around $800 a newly built Giss_ Actioned
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2019, 08:07:22 AM »
I got to shoot a John Whiscombe air rifle last year at a meet.  There were only a few hundred made and from what i read, there was a guy who bought up about 100 of them.

It takes two strokes of the lever to cock it and the opposing pistons work opposite of each other and come together in the middle to push the air through a port like in a PCP.

There is absolutely no recoil, but again from reading, you never want to accidentally not put a pellet in the breech or the gun may go into self destruction.

 Frome what I was told, the gun I shot was sold to the owner for $7000, but before the word "crazy" comes up, if his gun ever failed, he could probably get his money back in spare parts if he had to.

In this design, the opposing pistons both work to push air, not just cancel out vibration and recoil.
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