1000 yards 2 inch group or less



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Offline wimpanzee

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 05:17:45 PM »
Here's a weird thought for you all....helium seems to be the go to gas for trying to get more speed and power while air gunning.  Just heard last night that there is a helium shortage - it's not a man made gas and needs to be mined far below the earth's surface and we're experiencing a shortage right now.  Seems that helium may be working itself out of the air gunning world...

It's definitely a finite resource. Mined and used helium floats out of our atmosphere into space.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 01:03:24 AM »
Here's an interesting factoid for you.... The US Military is selling off it's HUGE reserves of Helium that are stored underground, and has been since the days of Airships….  ::)

Additionally, they have recently discovered some huge deposits in Africa.... I personally think it's just scare tactics to increase the price....  :o

The one fact that is indisputable is that Helium floats to the top of the atmosphere, and occasional collisions boost the velocity of individual atoms to escape velocity, and that Helium is indeed lost to space.... so whatever is on Earth is all we will have.... until they start mining it on the Moon....  ;)

As for using it in PCPs.... when you can't buy it for Party Balloons any more.... then maybe I'll worry about wasting it....  ::)

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Offline Wildcatter

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 03:51:41 PM »
A finite resource is a finite resource.  When you can no longer purchase it for your party balloons, it will be too late...
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Offline rsterne

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 12:36:53 PM »
Just to put this subject in context.... To qualify as a NUAH Master at 1000 yards would require a 5-shot, 10" group within or touching a 20" 10-ring.... and the target would have to be at least a 40" circle, with no other holes in the target....

Bob
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Offline truckr6969

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 06:24:12 PM »
After talking to a few Texan .308 owners it seems I will have to re barrel the Texan before I try any long range shooting.
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Offline Wildcatter

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 08:00:26 PM »
Is this the hunting folks Brian?  Yup, need a longer barrel and faster twist rate to reach that far.  Good luck, man, pullin' for ya!
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Offline crosman999

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 10:35:34 PM »
Just to put this subject in context.... To qualify as a NUAH Master at 1000 yards would require a 5-shot, 10" group within or touching a 20" 10-ring.... and the target would have to be at least a 40" circle, with no other holes in the target....

Bob
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Offline jhm757

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2018, 11:21:17 AM »
I think the first step would be to qualify as master in the NUAH Long Range Club at 100yds.

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2018, 12:23:27 PM »
I think the first step would be to qualify as master in the NUAH Long Range Club at 100yds.

Jim - jhm757

Wouldn't you just LOVE to see a .2" CTC 5 shot group at 100 yards? At that point, I'd mount the target, the rifle, and pictures on the wall like something from a trophy hunt!

I think it's a great idea to jump into the deep (DEEEEEEEP) end first.  That way when you dial back the distance to 100 yards it'll feel almost too easy.

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Offline rsterne

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2018, 01:47:08 AM »
IMO, this is the best long range shooting we have seen used for NUAH qualifications.... https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=142820.new#new …. That qualified Doug Noble as a Master at 200 yards.... 1.25" 5-shot group....

Bob
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Offline Pandur_HR

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2018, 06:17:00 AM »
This is great shot, slightly above 1 MOA group on 200 yards. Almost bull eye. This would be a good result even in firearms category. For air rifle this is more than outstanding.

Just some numbers from firearms world.

- Standard mechanical deviation for hunting rifles is about 2-3MOA.
- Snipers are about 1MOA.
- Competition custom built longe range rifles are about 0.5MOA, with custom built bullets.

0.5MOA on 1000 yards is 5". That is tightest group you can get in theory (wind, atmospheric condition and bullets imprefection is ignored), with commonly seen rifles. Someone managed to achieve 0.1MOA group at 1000 yards, that is a world record.

If anyone ever get a group of 2" (0.2 MOA) at 1000 yards with air rifle, please post the details here.
I would enjoy reading it. Honestly.

Yes, you should built your own barrel to achieve that.

And, think about SFP scopes, FFP are handy for hunting, but here you will need SFP. Largest tube diameter (more light, clearer image), with high quality glass and 1/8MOA click turrets, as much zoom as you can get. Adjustable mounts, scope shims etc.etc.

And you will need to think a tactic. Shooting over a lake was a good one. Water from lake is keeping temperature and atmosphere constant throught out all projectile trajetory. A day without wind. Same air and ground/water temperature, so that you don't end shooting a mirage. Shoot at North to eliminate gyroscopic effect of Earth rotation.....

The largest problem you have is your power. To keep projectile stable at 0.2MOA at 1000 yards you will need a lot of power. For .308, something like 2000 ft-lbf and more. Does such air rifle exist?
You should avoid transsonic flight before hitting a target. Transsonic flight (near speed of sound) destabilize projectile and increase groups.

A lot to do.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:53:51 AM by Pandur_HR »
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Offline rsterne

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2018, 05:03:02 PM »
Ivan, the 1.25" group that Doug shot at 200 yards is actually 0.6 MOA, because 1 MOA at 200 yards is 2.094" (although for NUAH we consider it to be 2.000")…. That rivals what the average shooter can accomplish with a PB using handloads, and exceeds the expectations for factory ammo.... My best ever group with a .222 Rem handload was 0.6 MOA....

Bob
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 05:05:26 PM by rsterne »
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Offline Pandur_HR

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2018, 05:26:32 PM »
Yes, my mistake. That makes that shot even more outstanding, just as your Bob.
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Offline Traum

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2018, 09:04:53 PM »
I still haveny  gotten my nuah target done. So a 1000 yard shot would be incredible. I would like to see the progrems from 100 yards on up. Alot more work marking off distance setting up targets waitingfor days where the wind is reasonable foe the distance etc.  I would love to see you get it done though. good luxk
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Offline anti-squirrel

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2018, 01:49:17 PM »
I think the 2 biggest obstacles to overcome will be consistency and wind-drift.

This is no more than lobbing projectiles and taking into account the effects of your environment.  I've shot a pie tin with 10 arrows out of 12 from a 30# PCV bow at 70 yards.  I had to account for ballistic trajectory and windage, but I made it happen and won a bottle of tequila as a result.  Heck, I've hit milk-jugs 6 out of 6 with marbles at 60 yards with a plain old wrist rocket.   This is no different...

Put the projectile in the air after doing the math for trajectory, drift/windage, and gravity.  Once you're consistent, its just the exact same as a ballistic round from any other projectile-launcher (be it a one-niner-eight or a featherweight bow hurling arrows) putting "ordinance" on target.

Translation: get it in the air and see what happens :)
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Offline DHunter

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2018, 05:52:09 PM »
I came across these:

Composite Scenes Of The 1108 yd Hits-257 Condor


AirForce Texan Big Bore Airgun - 1250 Yard World Record Longest Air Rifle Shot
(The target was a trash-can lid which he hit about 12" off-center.)
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Offline DHunter

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2018, 02:04:22 AM »
Snipers who shoot at 1000+ yards kind of have to be mathematicians.  You have to be able to compensate for the earth's rotation, air temperature, altitude, spin drift, etc. in addition to the usual trajectory and wind.  Even the humidity comes into play (more-humid air is actually slightly less dense), and in PBs, even the temperature of the gunpowder.  (Warmer powder makes for a slightly higher MV.)

I am in favor of whatever advances the state of the art for airguns though.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 12:52:40 AM by DHunter »
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Offline DHunter

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Re: 1000 yards 2 inch group or less
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2019, 05:09:13 PM »
I ran across this video showing gizmos you can mount the scope on to get radical angles way beyond what the elevation settings on the scope allow, and get repeatable settings too:
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