Is This Really The Kind Of Representation American Airgunners Need?

[Taso1000]

Now that I'm done going off topic as I normally do, sorry,  I agree that Sig Sauer's interest is sales.

As for more people learning of the full range of capabilities of air rifles?  I've always believed knowledge is power. 

I believe the more family, friends and co workers we expose to air gunning the better it is for our hobby and sport.

There will always be people to use knowledge for nefarious agendas.  They can only influence the ignorant.

WE all know air guns are not toys.  Should dangerous things be kept away from ignorant and irresponsible people?  Yes.  Should they also be kept away from people with criminal intent?  Yes.

Those beliefs may be a little polarizing but WE as airgun ambassadors have to protect our air gun hobby and sport's image.  No one else is going to.   

Thanks,

Taso

[Novagun]

Thank you for that Taso1000. I didn't know that.  I looks like I have pushed the topic to the edge at least in off topic. but I can't see that it does any harm to discuss. I should have been more circumspect. I surely don't want to be banned.

On a happier note, I to like shooty airguns especialy the ones you can shoot in the garden and the workshop. That is one of the joys.

[Buldawg76]

Criminals don't care about or obey gun laws anywhere in the world so only law abiding citizens will be affected by gun laws. So would you rather trust your life to the authorities for them to protect you in a criminal encounter, or trust yourself to eliminate the threat. I know what my answer is and will be without hesitation. It will never change until I leave this world when the Big Guy is ready for me. 

That's what it means to be an American citizen, the right to choose for your self.

Mike

[Taso1000]

We are in agreement more than you think Mike.    

Criminals don't care about or obey gun laws anywhere in the world so only law abiding citizens will be affected by gun laws.

Agreed!

So would you rather trust your life to the authorities for them to protect you in a criminal encounter, or trust yourself to eliminate the threat.

Definitely not.  By the time the authorities arrive it's too late.  I am well prepared multiple times over, wink wink nudge nudge, if you know what I mean.   


So we have to find a balance that works right?  This is a great topic for a different thread though.   

Thanks,

Taso 

[Buldawg76]

Taso
All I can say at least for me there is no balance other than zero infringement on my right to protect my family and property as I see fit, which is with guns or other deadly items to include motor vehicles . For me its a GOD given right that no man can take away or alter in any way.

There is no middle ground when it comes to my family and property.

Mike

[Killo Coonadillo]

I just wonder if Sig Sauer, and those who welcome their support have considered any detrimental negative consequences. Or have they been blinded by "instant gratification"? Immediate sales... A new way of hunting... A new level of "respect"... I just can't help but think that some haven't really thought this through, as well as they should have...
If this were a Crosman, and native air gun hunters, I'd have much less of a problem with this. It's their rights no matter what outcome. But for a foreign interest to do so, and to be welcomed at that; seems reckless. Especially when it has the potential to effect us all.

I personally have neutral feelings towards Sig (so don't take this the wrong way), Sig actually has manufacturing and Engineering  facilities here in the US.
I believe their air gun division is here...somebody can investigate but I believe this is true.

Sure, I believe they doing this to make more money and could care less about potential consequences.

Bottom line...enjoy your airgunning freedoms while you can.
Things tend to change and many times for the worse when bureaucrats get involved.
But it seems the changes hit those States with large city populations first.

So personally, I am not worried about the laws changing anytime soon for my State or those States that surround it.

Haha, this reply is about as far as I can go without violating forum rules.

[QVTom]

Living in one of the MOST Regulated states in the union ... what frightens me most is the Conviction manufacturers such as Sig Sauer that the market and consumers NEED tactical look like copies of actual assault weapons
IMO would agree to the youth leaving computer gaming, Air soft etc where Tacti-cool is all the rage, In the real world among those who take AIR GUNNING serious these guns are a joke !!  They simply are a false representation of a type & power of gun there NOT !!
In a society suffering gun violence coast to coast and the attack of Non shooters agaist those who do .... What the he ll are these tactical look like guns doing to our image and long term survival of the air gun sports overall ?

They will bring attention to us and be at the root of further regulations ... IMO

Scott, I have to agree.  There is no reason to make an airgun look like firearm.  I know they say training purposes but if you are training with a bb gun you are fooling yourself.  Also, the firearm branding is ridiculous too. 

Tom

[avator]

I'm of a bit different opinion on this Tom...
The Daisy Red Ryder was absolutely designed to look like the rifles that tamed the West. And virtually every kid, when I was growing up, had to have one. Now, I'm not at all into the tactical looks of the modern day offerings but I can almost see why kids these days are. Back then we had cowboys as heros.... not so much today.
Blame it on G.I. Joe and FPS video games.

[DevilsLuck]

I'm of a bit different opinion on this Tom...
The Daisy Red Ryder was absolutely designed to look like the rifles that tamed the West. And virtually every kid, when I was growing up, had to have one. Now, I'm not at all into the tactical looks of the modern day offerings but I can almost see why kids these days are. Back then we had cowboys as heros.... not so much today.
Blame it on G.I. Joe.

Something that irks me is this habit of manufacturers branding items “tactical”! Completely disregarding the meaning of the word. Are picattiny rails, muzzle brakes, poly stocks, or forward grips, “tactical”? No. They aren’t. Though they can be... Confused yet? If the features, and items you have attached to, or built into your gear, are put there specifically to aid in the execution of a tactic you are specifically training for; then yes. Said items and features are in that case “tactical”. If the only reason you have things like this attached to your gear is because you are trying to emulate something you saw, and are merely trying to shoe-horn it into your own methods... This isn’t tactical. At all.
Unless adding unnecessary weight, and unbalancing your gun, for the sake of “looking cool”, is somehow part of a tactic you plan to employ...
Light weight, minimalist, high speed, low drag set ups are every bit as “tactical” as the ridiculous LEGO monstrosities we see cobbled together on many guns. Probably more so. Especially if the gun is set up to efficiently aid your shooting style, and intended use of the gun, per the tactic you have chosen.
In short... if it isn’t specifically selected, and implemented as a part of your own purpose built tactic, it isn’t tactical. It’s (I let you fill in the blank...).

[QVTom]

I'm of a bit different opinion on this Tom...
The Daisy Red Ryder was absolutely designed to look like the rifles that tamed the West. And virtually every kid, when I was growing up, had to have one. Now, I'm not at all into the tactical looks of the modern day offerings but I can almost see why kids these days are. Back then we had cowboys as heros.... not so much today.
Blame it on G.I. Joe and FPS video games.

I understand and you are correct about the Red Ryder.  Unfortunately its a different world for many of us.

At least with the RR it was designed in time when bb guns were a right of passage.  You can also make the argument that the lever is perfect for a bb gun because if has a legitimate purpose.  A break barrel AR is much harder to justify IMHO.

Tom

[steveoh]

The problem with the left wing is they are not willing to learn anything about any type of guns whatsoever. Its difficult to teach those who have no desire to learn much less think rational or logical. Its not in their agenda to compromise or negotiate.

Mike

I would be very careful with the name calling and generalizing and labeling of fellow citizens. That is precisely why the country is so divided. As soon as you name Call or generalize in a negative way then you shut down any possibility of talking and finding middle ground and things you agree on.

I am socially pretty far left. Taint none of our business if a man loves a man or a woman loves a woman, or if a feller never quite indentified as a feller. No harm to me. Freedom you know?

 I am good with the whole freedom of religion thing we have, just don’t try to shove your religion down my throat, or prevent my other neighbors from practicing their religion. Freedom you know?

I can’t stand a current crop of “fiscally responsible “ politicians filling their pockets up as hard as they can, flying first class, outfitting their offices with high dollar furniture etc while insisting on austerity for the extreme poor, sick and elderly.

I happen to love AirGuns, big and small caliber, and I like firearms also. I’ve been a good citizen and have never been charged with a crime and so I can own either. I think it’s reasonable that we have some regulation. That hothead neighbor of mine surely would use an RPG on me for using my chainsaw before noon on a Sunday.

Some folks here are all about not getting their god given right to own their (insert your favorite) but don’t want to help out fellow airgun owners who want to hunt deer with their big bore AirGuns.

Oh and RIP John McCain. Though I often did not agree with your politics, I never took your service to the country for granted. You truly suffered and gave of yourself and sacrificed. Salute!

 

[avator]

LOL.... just can't help poking a finger in it, can we?

[steveoh]

LOL.... just can't help poking a finger in it, can we?

Nope

[selittle]

The problem with the left wing is they are not willing to learn anything about any type of guns whatsoever. Its difficult to teach those who have no desire to learn much less think rational or logical. Its not in their agenda to compromise or negotiate.

Mike

I would be very careful with the name calling and generalizing and labeling of fellow citizens. That is precisely why the country is so divided. As soon as you name Call or generalize in a negative way then you shut down any possibility of talking and finding middle ground and things you agree on.

I am socially pretty far left. Taint none of our business if a man loves a man or a woman loves a woman, or if a feller never quite indentified as a feller. No harm to me. Freedom you know?

 I am good with the whole freedom of religion thing we have, just don’t try to shove your religion down my throat, or prevent my other neighbors from practicing their religion. Freedom you know?

I can’t stand a current crop of “fiscally responsible “ politicians filling their pockets up as hard as they can, flying first class, outfitting their offices with high dollar furniture etc while insisting on austerity for the extreme poor, sick and elderly.

I happen to love AirGuns, big and small caliber, and I like firearms also. I’ve been a good citizen and have never been charged with a crime and so I can own either. I think it’s reasonable that we have some regulation. That hothead neighbor of mine surely would use an RPG on me for using my chainsaw before noon on a Sunday.

Some folks here are all about not getting their god given right to own their (insert your favorite) but don’t want to help out fellow airgun owners who want to hunt deer with their big bore AirGuns.

Oh and RIP John McCain. Though I often did not agree with your politics, I never took your service to the country for granted. You truly suffered and gave of yourself and sacrificed. Salute!

Indeed!

[Buldawg76]

I have stated my beliefs and opinions and stand by them. Be thankful for the ability to speak your mind without fear.

We just agree to disagree, Nuff said.

Mike

[Tater]

Guys, once again please don't let this get political. It's a good topic and I'd hate to see it get shut down.

[DevilsLuck]

Guys, once again please don't let this get political. It's a good topic and I'd hate to see it get shut down.

Thank you.

[DevilsLuck]

Even the “group” that Sig has partnered in forming is designed to help generate sales.

“So we worked with game officials and legislators in New Hampshire to amend a bill to allow hunting of small game with air rifles, such as the new SIG ASP20 break barrel air rifle.”

“The bill legalizes small game hunting with air rifles having a caliber of .22 or larger. The minimum Muzzle Energy required is 12 Ft/Lbs.”
^^^^^^
||||||||||

Gee... I wonder where they got the idea for 12Ft/Lbs...?


“A primary focus of the Airgun Sporting Association is to strengthen relationships between state wildlife agencies and representatives of the airgun industry.”

Nowhere in their schpiel are they concerning themselves with the shooter. It’s marketing, and nothing more.

[DevilsLuck]

Huston himself is nothing less than a shill For Sig Sauer... from the article...

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/05/sig-sauer-hires-industry-veteran-joseph-huston/#axzz5PMv2z4SR

“Huston will report directly to Ron Cohen, president and CEO of SIG SAUER, and is responsible for the management and development of the company’s Advanced Sport Pellet (ASP) line.”

 This new “group” (Airgun Sporting Association) isn’t some grass roots organization, started by airgunners, with American air gunners as its core concern. It’s nothing more than a marketing/PR/lobbying wing of Sig Sauer. It serves, and directly reports to Sig Sauer. And represents only Sig Sauer...

[YEMX]

I've said this on a few occasions...

I enjoy the relative obscurity and niche of our sport.  It guarantees a certain level of freedom that powder burners don't see.  I DO NOT like the idea of large, powerful brand names of firearms getting involved.  I knew this was coming as soon as I started seeing the firearm company's branded and replica bb guns.  I shook my head and thought to myself that "this WILL bite us squarely...".  My opinion hasn't changed.  I do NOT feel this is a good thing.