Max power valve / build for .25 Armada / Marauder ? ? ?

[nielsenammo]

Been through this process fully.... You will get 100 FPE for a shot or few and then declining. If you want a full magazine at 100 FPE, you will end up with a Brod.

Then you will also likely start seeing what you can do to accurize the barrel because at that power level it needs some help if you will be shooting to 200 yards.

Then you will also end up probably going to a 257 long barrel, like I am currently working on (32 inches long). I will have that installed in a few more weeks. This is how you then end up with 150+ FPE. I already have all 3 of Nick's 257 slugs in hand to try.

I think this is the info the OP is searching for.  How are guys getting the power.  He is not looking for 150 fpe, he is looking for 70-80 so he can maybe get a few more shots with it.  Since I can custom make any ammo he needs and he is in my shooting group, for him it will not matter .250 or .257 but he may need to go longer barrel as you suggest.  Caliber up to him and if he wants a .257 I could make him a new probe.

[oldpro]

70-80 fpe is easy and very doable. JSAR valve and full bore porting or even .190 will get you there. Fill to 3200 on a Mrod with stock spring and hammer will yield 1 magazine. Other ways to do it also but that’s what I know for a fact.

[PCPhack]

Port the barrel to .1875, use the regular JSAR .25 valve (.1875 port), and a .1875 transfer port (freezer or brake line piece) to get 5 shots at 80 FPE. Tune it for less power for more shots, probably 8 shots at 70 FPE.

To get a few shots at 100 FPE, use .2 or greater barrel porting, and full .25 valve and TP porting. You will need to machine a retractable bolt to get the last few FPE.

[nielsenammo]

Thank you Travis and Davis, that is exactly what Joe, the gun owner, is searching for.

[PCPhack]

70-80 fpe is easy and very doable. JSAR valve and full bore porting or even .190 will get you there. Fill to 3200 on a Mrod with stock spring and hammer will yield 1 magazine. Other ways to do it also but that’s what I know for a fact.

You posted while I was typing. Same story.

[screwwork]

My .25 cal mini-rod aka (Prod) with a Mrod barrel using the Prod SS Valve makes 79fpe with a .187 porting shooting NSA 44gr slugs. If I oblong the port to .187 x .2 it would help get a little more fpe. I would bet the .25 cal Mrod can get to 80fpe using an SS Valve & increasing barrel/valve port to .187.

[rsterne]

Yep, I'll just take my keyboard and shut up now....

Bob

[nielsenammo]

Very impressive out of a Prod.  I think Ron (OP) is going to help him put this together and I think he has what he needs.  I think the idea was to use the JSAR valve and see what else it took to get there from guys who have actually done it so they don't have to experiment so much.

[Gertrude]

So in all probability, it appears 8 shots within (lets say a 5%-6% ES) will likely be unachievable,
 (with the factory air tube, at factory max fill pressure). OK, fair enough.
 
David has already suggested it will likely need to be a "bottle build".
Does anyone here have any experience putting a bottle on a Armada? Any pics, links, examples, or parts lists ?

and yeah,... If we THEN determine,  the barrel will STILL need to be longer,
  then it would likely be changed to a .257

FWIW, the Coyote I took last year, was with Nicks custom AF Condor .257
 Now I'm not sure what the FPE is on that gun, and it is certainly far greater than the Armada will likely produce. I'm sure Nick knows exactly what those numbers are.
BUT,
The shot was made at 103-105 yds with the yote facing directly at me... his head held low.
 The .257 entered low on the neck/high on the chest. (admittedly not my best placed shot).
 The slug passed through the entire length of the body cavity, certainly took out lungs, (and probably heart too), and exited at the right rear leg just forward of the hip joint. No doubt several other major organs were also hit with that direction of travel.

The coyote spun two full turns and expired in under 5 seconds.
 I would post a pic of that yote again here,.. but this is not the hunting gate, where forum rules dictate pics of kills must be posted.

Thanks for ALL the replies so far.
 I think a lot of good info has already been shared... and I'm sure others will also find it useful.
 Lets keep this going.
 It is a good thread, with all opinions held in high value.

So if Joe has to go with a bottle build, then so be it. He may have to dig a little deeper into the piggybank.
Can anyone here post a pic of a bottled Armada ?
Is a block and bottle already available ?
 Any source links ?

Thanks

[triggertreat]

Well I've done 77 FPE unregulated with a 43gr and a SS valve and never really tested the max velocity since that wasn't my goal at the time.  I can tell you the valve had more in it.  I would expect at least 90 FPE for a few shots unregulated.  .220 porting on my setup.

[screwwork]

Ron,
I haven't hunted any yotes so I do lack some experience, most hunters when calling in yotes get 1 to 3 shots of per stand if lucky enough to even have some yotes show up to the caller. You can refill between stands and be ready for the next shot(s) when the opportunity presents itself.
Unless I am missing some piece of the puzzle 4/5 high power shots (70/80fpe) should be more than enough to take down the intended target(s) without the need for a bottled gun and extra weight.

[Gertrude]

Ron,
I haven't hunted any yotes so I do lack some experience, most hunters when calling in yotes get 1 to 3 shots of per stand if lucky enough to even have some yotes show up to the caller. You can refill between stands and be ready for the next shot(s) when the opportunity presents itself.
Unless I am missing some piece of the puzzle 4/5 high power shots (70/80fpe) should be more than enough to take down the intended target(s) without the need for a bottled gun and extra weight.

Hi Randy, you make all valid points.
And yes you are correct. On the occasions that we ARE lucky enough to call one in, we will likely only get that one single shot. Opportunity for a Follow up shot is very VERY rare.
 It is not our intention or expectation to try and empty the clip. That is not the point of wanting this build to get a full clips worth of shots ( 8 ) per fill.
 The only reason for that build parameter is simply because that is what a single clip will hold.

The yotes are exceptionally skiddish on our permission. (the local farmers shoot at them almost nightly).
it is nearly impossible to get them to come in under 150 yards.
We sit at night for hours on end, hoping for that one rarely made shot.
Most nights it never happens, and we end up busting a few bunnies instead. (they are everywhere on the permission at night)

Also, on several of our other farms, we do GS pesting (daytime) often out to 200+ yds.
 Hence the desire to get a full clip per fill on this build.

Just last weekend, I was spotting for Nick, and watched him take a young/small GS at 207 yds.
 ( after the shot, he went to the dispatched GS, and I lasered him at the POI).

We generally shoot at what most here consider to be "long range".
 This is not out of arrogance or bravado. This is out of necessity.
 Wide open farms, and level ground. No trees, and few obstructions.
 The adult GS quickly learn to keep their distance. (The new spring pups are not so smart).

We generally zero all our guns between 50 to 100 yds.
  Some of our bigger bores and custom guns are zero'd well beyond that.
  Heck, my little QB/PCP is usually zero'd at 75 yds., and my M11 is zero'd at 100 !

Sometimes when the conditions are right, we will see several GS in the scope at once.
 It's like playing "Whack-A-Mole", ... Airgun Style ! LOL !
 We got over 100 GS last weekend, with my best 2 shots being at 98 and 103 yds.,  and we'll be going out again this coming weekend.
 MAN ! ! !, I LOVE the "Dumb Spring Pups" season !     

[YEMX]

For a bottle conversion:

Either a Cobra Reg (its a regulator and a conversion block) from Wicked Air Rifles (WAR) or a Gen1 WAR conversion block- IF you can find one.  Only difference: one is regulated, one isn't.

Tank options:  a Talon Tunes carbon fiber tank (only 3625 psi and 480 cc) or a carbon fiber tank from Aliexpress- 500 cc, 4500 psi.

Shorter Mrod tube.  Standard size is 11.75" long. 

That's the basic parts list for the conversion...

[PeterL]

I don't have a dog in this fight. However, with my current setup(not finished yet) I'm able to hit over 100fpe(105fpe to be exact) without really leaning on the JSAR Valve too much. All this on a 3000psi fill. Getting four solid shots. I've upgrade valve screws,modified bolt,all ports .250 through and through with a TSS for an extreme spread of 8fps, stock length barrel,MDS hammer and very intricate attention to detail on every part(polishing,deburing,honing etc.). It can be done, just takes effort and time. All this on a stock tube with a depinger.

Peter

[Gertrude]

What are the specific differences between the JSAR vs Cothran valves ?

[nielsenammo]

Ron if you are going to rebarrel and go .257 then you need to rethink your build.  .257 slugs will be much heavier and you will need much more power than 70-80 fpe.  For .257 you will need at least 130 fpe build.  My .257 is around 180 fpe.

If you staying with 80 fpe range and rebarrel we need to stay at .250.  We can buy a .250 barrel that is longer.

[oldpro]

What are the specific differences between the JSAR vs Cothran valves ?

Cothran valve is a on off valve it either opens or doesn’t open depending on hammer strike it also cannot be adjusted via hammer spring for more or less power you have to regulate it to adjust your pellet speed. I have built many guns with Dons valve but only regulated and they work great and make lots of power also plus the valve is very well made. A SS valve is also a balanced valve but of a different design it can be adjusted just like a conventional valve and make a bell curve it also makes great power but it doesn’t like to be regulated below 2k psi it defeats it purpose. So depending on how you build your gun will determine which valve you use and they both work great.

[nielsenammo]

I think the plan was to go with your valve Travis unless there was a reason not to which I don't see.  It seems the best choice for what is out there and a lot of people have had great success with it.  Now that they also have the porting recommendations to go with it I think Ron and Joe have all the needed info which is awesome.

[oldpro]

I think the plan was to go with your valve Travis unless there was a reason not to which I don't see.  It seems the best choice for what is out there and a lot of people have had great success with it.  Now that they also have the porting recommendations to go with it I think Ron and Joe have all the needed info which is awesome.

On a side note Nick do you have ammo that is specific for a TJ barrel un-choked in 25 cal?

[nielsenammo]

Would depend on the barrel.  He does not have a list of barrels so I don't know all what he has.  If it is a .250 barrel I should have it or can make it.

I have shot a few guns with TJ 25 barrels and some are good and some not as good.  Let's not change this thread but send me a PM is you have specifics of the barrel.