Max power valve / build for .25 Armada / Marauder ? ? ?

[Gertrude]

This past weekend, a few of us got together at one of our permissions to do some long range pesting. One of the guys was shooting his .25 Armada and ask's me, ....

  ... " If I wanted to do a Max Possible Power Build on my .25 caliber Armada, and I only care/need to get 1 full magazine per fill, (but 2 magazines would be nice), with the intention of shooting NSA slugs, ... What valve/parts should I buy ?"

I told him that a lot of you guys have done some impressive builds, and some of the vendors are making big strides with various aftermarket valves, transfer ports, etc.

I told him I was not up to full speed on all the latest changes,
 but mentioned these valves to him. ( and there may even be others too ?)

https://hillairgun.com/products/hill-complete-valve-assembly-2/

http://wickedairrifles.com/store/p16/Cothran_PowerHouse_Valve_for_the_Marauder.html

http://www.jsairrifles.com/Marauder-SS-Balanced-Valve-Large-Port_p_56.html

He says.. "OK, so if the main priorities are --- a .25 slug shooting Armada that gets 1 to 2 magazines of consistent/useable shots,... Which Valve will deliver the highest power ? "

I said, "I'll tell ya what,... How about we start a thread asking, the folks who have tried, build, sell them ".
   So here we are,     
 What do you guys say  ? ? ? Pro's, Con's, Advantages, (and/or) Disadvantages between them ? ? ?

THANKS for any and all replies.

[YEMX]

This post might help:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139580.0

Also, maybe look up Ced's 17 HMaiR build.  Yeah, it's .172, but you could use some of the same parts...

Maybe go with a longer tube from JSA and regulate it? 

It's definitely something I'd like to do sometime- a .25 slug (only) shooter...

[Motorhead]

Big power and Consistency over the fill pressure range .... good luck with that

[porkchopexpr3ss]

Big power and Consistency over the fill pressure range .... good luck with that

im betting he could dial it in over 8 shots, but yea otherwise im guessing im at 6% es over 20 shots.  this is with a 40 grain slug, not max power marauder. id assume max power marauder is 80-100 fpe

[oldpro]

 We just built a new SS valve just for regulating and over the weekend testing was exceptional at even high powers.

[Gertrude]

Big power and Consistency over the fill pressure range .... good luck with that

Not planning on going over the fill pressure of the gun. That's why he said if it only gets one clip full of useable consistent shots he would be ok with it.
So far, We've been having pretty good luck on higher power pushing Nicks slugs.

Has anyone ever done a comparison between the JSAR and Cothran valves ?

[oldpro]

Big power and Consistency over the fill pressure range .... good luck with that

Not planning on going over the fill pressure of the gun. That's why he said if it only gets one clip full of useable consistent shots he would be ok with it.
So far, We've been having pretty good luck on higher power pushing Nicks slugs.

Has anyone ever done a comparison between the JSAR and Cothran valves ?

Lot of people have . Myself /Matt/ Bob Sterne/Lloyd etc etc. Theres plenty of information here.

[Gertrude]

Big power and Consistency over the fill pressure range .... good luck with that

Not planning on going over the fill pressure of the gun. That's why he said if it only gets one clip full of useable consistent shots he would be ok with it.
So far, We've been having pretty good luck on higher power pushing Nicks slugs.

Has anyone ever done a comparison between the JSAR and Cothran valves ?

Lot of people have . Myself /Matt/ Bob Sterne/Lloyd etc etc. Theres plenty of information here.

Thanks Travis,
Per my limited knowledge on the available aftermarket valves, He is certainly leaning towards your valve, but he also was aware that there were a few different guys making them. That's why he is asking and was hoping to find some comparative performance numbers on them.

It will be a designated slug pusher, and he's content to accept it may only be a 1 clip per fill gun. He's hoping it will prove to be coyote worthy/acceptable at some longer distances than the stock gun would be capable of. Coyote worthy at 200 yards is kind of the goal.

I sent him a link to this thread last night, so Joe, where are you ? Don't be skeerred of posting, these guys don't bite, jump in here and ask any questions you have 😀.
Travis, Scott, and others, have also done a LOT of R&D on better performance hammers too.

[nielsenammo]

Not sure which valve is the best but his ammo choice is spot on.

[fishinglakes]

If for no other reason, that killer NSA logo should be enough!

[YEMX]

His best bet is probably going to be JSA's new valve, regulated, mds hammer, with a longer main tube, if you're not going to bottle it.  If you are going to bottle it, add the Cobra block...  Probably going to be best bang for your buck.  JMHO

[porkchopexpr3ss]

"Coyote worthy at 200 yards is kind of the goal"

seems a little inhumane at your own pleasure,   things need to get handled,understood. grab a 223 or actual rifle cartridge and be done with it.
wouldnt feel a marauder the proper tool, at least not in my hands.

[nielsenammo]

"Coyote worthy at 200 yards is kind of the goal"

seems a little inhumane at your own pleasure,   things need to get handled,understood. grab a 223 or actual rifle cartridge and be done with it.
wouldnt feel a marauder the proper tool, at least not in my hands.

Inhumane based on what?  Have shot multiple coyotes with 25 caliber.  They go right through both sides of the yote. Do you have experience suggesting airguns are not humane hunting weapons?

[K.O.]

Sorry but I tend to agree at 200 yards I would much prefer a .223 varmint grenade... but that  would be how I go about things... and do not hunt yote while understanding there is also at times a need to...

I have killed one in my life that was sick and dazed at 15 or so yards with a 18 ish fpe head shot from a Benji .22 pumper using the green tin Benjamin (they buttoned out well by the way)...

we all have our way of doing things...

[triggertreat]

Gonna need a lot of scope and offset rings for 200 with a slug and a Marauder/Armada.  You may get a lucky shot in.  There are better guns for the job.

[Gertrude]

Before this thread takes a southern turn for the worse and gets too many "ruffled feathers", maybe I should come back and clarify a bit.
 200 yards is simply a goal to strive for.
 As Airgunners, we clearly understand that Accuracy trumps Power.
 This is because we also understand that, AS AIRGUNNERS, we are not afforded the "luxury" of massive wound channels familiar to much higher powered firearms.
 SO,... it then comes down to a few things.

 First priority,  is always having the confidence to consistently deliver accurate shot placement.
 Second, is BC and energy level delivered at POI. (this is where bullets are FAR better than pellets)
 Third, is level of projectile expansion to retain that energy in the target. (this is where NSA HP bullets excel).

We also have a particular unique advantage.
Having Nick in our little group of shooters, benefits us as well as NSA. We get to help develop his bullets through EXTENSIVE field testing, through ALL KINDS of guns we own in the group, on our private range, that reaches out to 200 yards.
 Nick gets the benefit of tweeking his bullet designs to perfectly match a particular gun at a particular tune.
 We shoot paper for accuracy and consistency testing.
 We use Chrony's and LabRadar for accurate BC testing.
 and we use dead chickens, live GS and Rabbits for verifying projectile expansion in flesh / bone.
  (unopened soup cans with bullet catching backstops works pretty well too).

Once we evaluate the results of these tests, we are better equipped to determine the actual effective range capabilities, of both bullet and rifle.
Who Knows ?,... it may just turn out that this gun (with a hopped up valve) will only be a good rabbit/GS gun at 200 yards, and only 125-150 yds for Coyote. We'll have to build it to find out.

We set our goals high to challenge ourselves and push ourselves to achieve top performance.
Everything is theoretical until the testing numbers are in.
 Obviously we are looking to build a pretty maxed out .25 Armada.
 This build and theoretical / (hopeful) "Goal" will pivot on, how much power the chosen valve is capable of making. If necessary, We will make a custom bullet to best use the available power.

 This is why we are asking about comparative results from the various aftermarket valves.

[K.O.]

well 200 yards that's about 2/3 of a second  travel time (@950fps)plus lock time... wonder if that nervous sucker is going to hold still...the larger uncertainty for me calls to loud...  I would like the security blanket of more  fpe cause the moa accurate (2") capable  rifle just tried to hit a target that moved...  .357 up hollow point  and 75-100-150 yards may seem like overkill but quicker travel and a much better wound channel... uncertainty reduced by a small magnitude...Jmho...

...

[YEMX]

Gentlemen- the OP has simply set a lofty goal of "200 yards accurately" (well, his friend did anyway) with a modified .25 Armada/Mrod.  I completely understand the need to ensure clean, ethical kills.  However, and as the OP  has said- that range is just a goal.  Not a literal, consistent range from which they're going to be culling yotes.  JMHO. 

Personally, I'd like to see what kind of rifle will come out of this discussion!! 

[nielsenammo]

With a 100 yard zero 4 mildots would be your hold over depending on your zoom if you can shoot a 39 grain slug with a BC of around 0.1 at 900 fps for 200 yards.  So no special rings needed, no special scope just an accurate range and a capable shooter.

So IF (which is what the thread is all about) they can get the power out of the gun how is this gun not capable of a 200 yard ethical kill.  It will still carry over 40 fpe to the target.  My longest kill on a coyote is 150 yards with a .308 airgun at similar speeds.

You shoot coyotes when they stop and yes they will sit there long enough for a 900+ fps slug to hit them.

[invarjoe]

Hi guys so I finally got a chance to jump in due to being really busy at work.im the the friend wanting to build up my .25 armada.( and for those wondering,yes he really does have a friend) .but I was also wondering if the best valve for the .25 armada would be the best option for my .22 marauder as eventually I will be building that up as well.if anyone has any links I could check out they would be highly appreciated thanks