Gradually narrowing down pellet selection

[lizzie]

I'm am not certain if pellet quality is gradually declining, or I'm just noticing what seems to work best in most of my guns lately.
I used to consider the CPHP a general all-around, all-purpose pellet, and one that would generally "make do" for most of my guns.

When I bought the first FWB124, The JSB exact 8.44 gr was recommended, and that's what I've been using since I bought it in 2011. Over the time since, I've acquired a few more German springers and a couple of Gamos, plus another few odds and ends guns.

When I   bought the first HW30, I had good success with RWS Super H Point, and have shot those exclusively until recently.
The R7 that I bought recently shoots GREAT with the Falcon Accuracy Plus 7.33 gr.
I have been trying them in most of my guns that I shoot at least on a regular basis, even if not often, and almost across the board, my guns are accurate with them. Th CPHP's seem to be losing a little in quality and consistency lately.

I have even switched from the JSB in my FWBs, and they were shooting quite impressively with them this afternoon.

The quandry.....it appears that they are very unavailable...Sigh.
Anyone here have a source?
Have any of you found them to be versatile with regard to being shot in a moderate to wide  variety of guns?

[Frank]

I am sure that the JSB Diabolo RS 7.33 is the same pellet. I see PA is out of the AAF 7.33 right now. The head size is the same at 4.52. The JSB  is a dollar cheaper than the AAF, and in stock.... 

[lizzie]

Interesting...I have a tin of JSB 7.33's...
Maybe they just aren't as uniform in size.

[Booger]

I have found that my go to pellets are Air Arms, JSB, & H&N. I have and had other pellets but these usually get the job done best.

[uglymike]

I have some AA 7.3gr, PM sent Lizzie.

[nced]

Interesting...I have a tin of JSB 7.33's...
Maybe they just aren't as uniform in size.

I've posted in the past that I found the 8.44 JSB Exacts to be very inconsistent in head sizes. While the "head size inconsistencies" might not affect the accuracy of guns with barrels that have a leade small enough to "squish" the pellet head to a consistent size when loading. My .177 R9 bore has a leade large enough that variations in JSBs and H&N FTTs head sizes are obvious, plus the accuracy isn't consistent with those popular pellets. Here is a target I shot "bucket and sticks" at 50 yards comparing some "new to me" pellets with the die lot stamped and dated boxed 7.9 grain Crosman Premiers that I normally shoot in the R9......

Since that target was shot I've received a .177 HW95 and noticed that the CPLs that fit the leade of my R9 "perfectly snug" are "sore finger tight" in the HW95 so perhaps I'll revisit the JSB Exacts in the future because the tighter leade of the HW95 just might "swage down" the larger Exacts to the point that each (or most) pellet heads are consistent. I was so frustrated by the inconsistency of the fit of supposedly 4.52mm Exacts (same problem with the H&N FTTs) that I spent a few hours measuring the heads of a few thousand pellets and sorting them into groups. LOL.....the sorted pellets did fit my leade consistently (looser to tighter) within each size lot so the sorting did serve it's purpose. The issue was that I was tossing out a LOT of pellets with smaller heads and the size on the tin had to resemblance to the actual contents. I had JSB Exact pellet heads from the single 4.50mm labeled tin I bought that were larger than many of the pellets from the 8 tins I bought marked 4.52mm (and visa versa)...........

After measuring and shooting I really wonder how much some head size variation matters as long as the barrel leade is small enough to "swage down to a consistent size" when pushing the pellet home.

In one of your posts you mentioned that the "lowly" CPHPs are accurate from your guns and to my surprise I found the same with my HW springers as long as the fit in the leade is snug. Well.....I don't know how consistent the Benjamin hollow point pellets are from tin to tin but I was surprised by these pellets in the 750 count tin..........

To make the "die lot marked and dated" CPLs with the larger than normal pellet heads work well in the tight leade HW95 I made a pellet head sizer that also rounded/expanded the skirts a bit........


Well just for grinns I tried to size some CPHP pellet heads using my 4.48mm die and a lot of the pellet heads were too small from the tin to be sized..........

Almost all the pellets from the "Benji tins" however had heads large enough to be reduced as the were pushed through the "sizing ring" so they may be an alternative to the boxed CPLs. Only some actual 50 yard groupings will prove if the sized Benji's are equal, accuracy wise to the sized CPLs. For me the "fly in the ointment" for both the CPHPs and the "Benji's" is the fact that they can be real dirty, and in the case of the "Benji's" there was a lot of lead swarf in the tins. Both the CHPS and "Benji's" required washing and lubing before use. For years I've been lubing my Crosman pellets to reduce the barrel fouling I got when shooting those hard lead pellets when unlubed.............


This is from the "Benji tins" after washing...........


Anywhoo......if you don't mind the "dirty CPHPs" perhaps the 750 count Benjamin hollow points are worth a try. They do have slightly larger and more consistent head sizes than the CPHPs yet their heads are smaller than the boxed CPLs with very consistent but large heads like this.........

 

[lizzie]

Thanks Ed....both for the interesting insighte, and fir taking the time to test all these things out!

If I understand correctly, you are saying that if the head fit is tight, that they are more likely to be accurate in the HWs...?

[nced]

Thanks Ed....both for the interesting insighte, and fir taking the time to test all these things out!

If I understand correctly, you are saying that if the head fit is tight, that they are more likely to be accurate in the HWs...?

When the boxed Crosman CPLs had "head size consistency issues" with a lot of undersized pellets in the box (around die #7 years ago) I found that as long as the pellet fit the leade properly it would be an accurate pellet. To judge a "proper fitting CPL" at that time I would drop a CPL in the leade of my R9 and visually check how high the skirt set above the breech. If the pellet skirt sat "properly high" it was then seated with the finger. If the pellet dropped too low in the leade it was shaken removed and replaced with another since the "low sitter" would usually be a "flier".  Anywhoo......since tossing CPLs during a FT match (or hunting) was distracting I would "pre sort" the CPLs by dropping them in the leade of a spare barre. I remember one 1250 count box of Die #7 CPLs at that time (almost two decades ago when living in West Virginia) had 130ish "pee-wees" and three dozen of those "pee-wees" dropped straight through the R9 barrel without even getting hung up on the choke! I'm pleased that the QC of the CPL cases I've bought during the last few years have been very consistent so I haven't pre-sorted them for years. Sized the pellet heads to fit the tighter HW95 leade.....YES.....but haven't needed to presort due to pellet head size variations. Hummmm.........in one of my recent Die "B" CPL boxes I did find the pellet on the left that no amount of sizing would fix, and I do find an occasional bent skirt however few and far between............


Back at that time my brother bought a tin of CPHPs and tested them from his R9. He found that if the CPHP sat at "the proper height" it was as accurate as the boxed CPLs. The problem was that fully 1/3rd of the pellets from the CPHP tin were "low droppers" and tossed. This made the WallyMart "cheap tins" more expensive than the die lot marked and dated 1250 count boxed CPL that we bought for about $9 plus shipping if a whole case of 4 boxes were ordered.

As a side note, my tight leade HW95 would still shoot unsized CPLs accurately as long as the pellet was seated in the leade properly. The "finger hurtin' tightness" also caused the occasional pellet to not be seated correctly when the barrel was re-latched, this would occasionally happen to the pellet skirt...........

[lizzie]

Ohhhhh. Thanks for that explanation. I learned a good bit from that information!

[nervoustrigger]

Lizzie,
 
For what it’s worth, I’ve had a similar experience with Crosman pellets of late.  A few years ago, most of the time their CPUMs and CPHPs in .177 and .22 ranged from what I would consider good to excellent.  For 25 yards, I mean usually no worse than ½” to 5/8” groups, and sometimes a really excellent batch would dance around MoA (1/4” CTC).  Lately it has been rare to get some that will do better than 1”.
 
Calipers indicate much more variance in the head sizes and the mold lines and flashing are more evident.  Not a lot I can do about the head sizes…can make the big ones smaller but can’t make the small ones bigger.  But even if I could, I wouldn’t.  Too much effort to individually size a 1.5 cent pellet when a 3 cent pellet from JSB or H&N doesn’t need it.
 
However there is something that I can do about the flashing and mold lines that’s not too onerous.  Tumble them.  I’ve done 3 separate trials with different batches and the improvement has been worth it.  They still won’t hang with the higher quality pellets when it really counts but it makes them enjoyable to use at modest ranges for practice and plinking with the kids.
 
My first experience with it was posted in this thread:
 https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=134454
 
What I still run into frequently is two distinct groups that are separated by, say, a half inch at 25 yards or a flier that ruins an otherwise excellent group.  Some thoughts on that here:
 https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=143295

[lizzie]

Great threads, and informative reading, Jason. Thank You!

[anti-squirrel]

I haven't been shooting anywhere near as much as last year- mostly for pesting purposes.  My experiences are that the brown box CPs tend to be most consistent.  The Benji-labeled tins are as Ed point out: filthy with graphite lube.  I haven't had as much of a problem with swarf and flashing, luckily.

I've also relegated most of my shooting to under 30 yards with an occasional 40 yard shot.  For the longest shots, I use my RWS pellets and JSBs on account of the accuracy (exception being the Silver Arrow in my SPA pistol which likes every pellet I try).  For shorter shots (20 and less yards) I make do with the CPs.  Oddly enough my CZ springer has a pronounced fondness for the bargin label H&Ns (the Excites) as well as white-box CP pointed.

What's my point?  Keep re-evaluating different pellets.  Just because you found the right pellet for now doesn't mean it will always be the right pellet as dies wear and rifling in your barrels is "seasoned".

[Oldgringo]

FWIW, my two 30S' and my R7, as well as my two 853's, seem to prefer the AA 7.33 gr. Falcons over the 7.33 JSB or anything else.  Give member/sponsor Trenier Outdoors a look for the AA pellets.  Trenier's prices and shipping has been very acceptable to me. 

[bandg]

Air Arms Falcon 7.33 are the preferred pellet in my Walther rifles and Alecto pistols.   I bought a large supply from PA quite a long while ago because they shot so well.

[lizzie]

Thanks Greg- great lead on the source. I'll check that out!

[lizzie]

Same here bandg.....I have been pretty impressed with the consistency of that one pellet in a good many of my guns.
All I can think to attribute it to is superior manufacturing processes and attention to detail.
I haven't looked it up to see....where are they made? Any idea?

[nervoustrigger]

Lizzie, Air Arms is manufactured by JSB.

No surprise they are frequently a good performer.

[lizzie]

Hmmmm. interesting!

[rafterp]

This is interesting. I too have been doing some pellet research, to find a pellet my Crosman Vantage NP likes. I started out with Crosman Premiers, Destroyers, Wadcutters in 7.4 and 7.9 grains. I got a suggestion on here to go up to a heavier pellet, so I ordered some Piranhas and Premier Copper Magnums in 10.5. I got the best group's out of the Copper pellets. Then I happened to be going though a town with a larger Walmart, and bought all the 10.5's they had on the shelf (Crosman, Gamo). Still the Crosman Copper Mags out-did them. However, none of them would fall through the barrel, but several were too big to seat; could not force them into the barrel. If they are consistently that tight, that might be why they shot better?

[Novagun]

JSB and H&N seemed to be the best in most guns and Gamo pellets the worst but there recently has become available BSA pellets. BSA Fury are a semi pointed pellet and BSA Target are regular wad cutters. They are made in the EU so perhaps could be a Gamo product to upgrade their range and they fit the lead in some rifles, including Gamo better than others.  I get them from Mr Gamo in Wainuiomata. Pretty good pellets. If you can get them in the USA they are worth a try. Both 8.17 gns.