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Better accuracy by deburring pellets
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Better accuracy by deburring pellets
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Topic: Better accuracy by deburring pellets (Read 10033 times))
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
on:
November 02, 2017, 03:52:13 PM »
Okay guys, this little experiment was interesting so figured I'd share it with you. I got some .22 and .177 CPHP last month when they were on sale at Amazon. Like most of the tins I've gotten over the last couple of years, they both showed a good bit of flashing around the mold parting lines and the skirts...the .177 worse than the .22 this time.
Groups at 25 yards were pretty disappointing from several rifles. Last night I decided to see if manually tumble deburring them in a wire strainer would do anything. Unfortunately I didn't have the presence of mind to set up and take a
before
closeup but here is a representative shot of the
after
:
I think the parting lines on the .177 were too substantial to remove but the .22 cleaned up pretty nicely. So I gave them another try and the .177 were still pretty dismal but the .22 are showing promise. Before deburring, I was getting groups of about 1.25" on average at 25 yards with the FD-PCP. Here's what the first 2 groups looked like after deburring:
So these groups shrunk to less than half the size. Not going to win any awards but they're now vaporizing 1/2" Mardis Gras beads with confidence. That's good fun for a cheap pellet, and it means they are now suitable for woods walking for gray squirrels.
I have no idea how repeatable this may be. It might be one of those correlation doesn't equal causation things so if you try it, please report back with your results.
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MS
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gandalfretlaw
Sharp Shooter
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Real Name: Walter
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #1 on:
November 02, 2017, 07:57:19 PM »
I honestly find it more economical to just buy a better brand of pellets such as RWS. Gamo and Crosman make horrible pellets in my opinion.
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Rio Vista, CA
Walther Talon Magnum, Benjamin NP XL 1100 22cal, Gamo Whisper, Gamo Big Cat, Gamo Hunter 200, Beeman RS2 Dual Caliber, Beeman Sportster, Ruger Air Hawk, Benjamin 312 (1964), Gamo Cadet-Delta, Shanghai Airguns Under-lever, Crosman Backpacker 2289, Crosman 2040 Ratcatcher 22cal, Crosman 1008, Daisy BB Gun
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #2 on:
November 02, 2017, 08:23:52 PM »
Oh, I agree with you 100% on that. I was looking at this as more of a general observation.
I really haven't saved any money by buying Crosman pellets over the years! They are better than Daisy and Gamo, that's the most positive thing I can say.
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MS
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d27447
Marksman
Posts: 451
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Real Name: Charlie
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #3 on:
November 02, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »
Very interesting Jason, thanks for sharing!!! Huge difference in accuracy. You need it for those tough little grays!!!!
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Conroe, TX, USA
Nvreloader
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4386
Real Name: Don
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #4 on:
November 02, 2017, 09:28:23 PM »
Jason
Very interesting results.
Do you think that removing the parting lines, from the nose/skirt areas,
reduces the gyro effects of these parting lines grabbing the air flow around the outside of the pellets,
and causing the wild dispersion/lack of accuracy, along with the slight weight imbalance of the parting lines etc?
As we know, the air flows around and over these areas, during the pellets flight etc
Tia,
Don.
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Western NV
4 Sheridan 64/67 yr models - 20 cal/Hammerli 850 Air Mag -17 cal x 2, + 22 cal /QB-79 - 22 cal /Guantlet - 22 cal / Crosman 150 - 22 cal, Second Variant Model / Crosman 160 - 1st Variant Model - 22 cal /MRod Varmint 22 cal /Sentry 705-2 - 22 cal /Sentry 705 - 9T - 25 cal / Dar 17 cal /22 cal Discovery / Dragon Fly I- 17 cal & DF II 22 cal / Diana Storm Rider 17 and 22 cal, plus
CF 4500 45 min SCBA tanks x 3, w/SB F-10 compressor
"Speeds fine, but Accuracy is final"
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker,
It is time to restore the American precept, that each individual is accountable for their actions."
Ronald Reagan
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #5 on:
November 03, 2017, 12:07:36 AM »
Hi Don, yes I think that's a good description of what's happening. The perimeter of the head is particularly critical. I certainly don't recall ever getting good results from a tin of pellets that have pronounced parting lines. The .177s are a fine example.
Oh and to make sure those groups weren't a fluke, I shot another one before the sun went down, this time with a different hold and it printed a 3/8" ragged hole.
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MS
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CraigH
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3584
Real Name: Craig
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #6 on:
November 03, 2017, 07:47:47 AM »
Excellent, simple experiment that displays a great result. Thanks for adding to our knowledge!
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Lone Tree, Colorado
With freedom comes a terrible responsibility
mobilemail
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4558
Real Name: Mark
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #7 on:
November 03, 2017, 09:04:28 AM »
I think I did this by accident once.
I bought a tin of .177 CPHP at Walmart and ran them through the Pellet-Gage to see how consistent in size they were (NOT!!) In the process of sorting, I found that putting them through a size hole that was a bit tight, as in a size down from proper fit, it removed the flashing.
There was such a large variation of size in that bunch that I ended up leaving them sorted, and use them when I get a new gun to find out which head size shoots best. When staying within the particular head size the gun likes best, the pellets have been pretty accurate.
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Greene County IL 62016
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Xraycer
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 17197
Black Guns Matter
Real Name: Dinh
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #8 on:
November 03, 2017, 09:35:23 AM »
Quote from: nervoustrigger on November 02, 2017, 08:23:52 PM
I really haven't saved any money by buying Crosman pellets over the years!
Being a mainly a plinker, if I can consistently hit a 3" target out to 50yds, I'm satisfied. CHPH does that for me with the guns I own. That said, CPHP saves me nearly $10 per tin over my other pellet choice, JSB, so I think that is significant savings when I'm going through more than a tin a month.
Of course, if I'm looking for groupings, I go JSB
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Southern NH, USA
Nvreloader
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4386
Real Name: Don
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #9 on:
November 03, 2017, 12:28:55 PM »
Jason
You have me thinking again,
LoL,
Like your results,
The best groups so far have been 1-1/4" from this AR, with the fps running from 565 > 750 fps etc,
with 4 different pellets using both fuel types.
I can shoot 1-1/2" 5 shot groups @ 300 yds with my SP pistols, consistently, so I know how to shoot, I think.
It has to be either the pellets or the bbl, and I am closing in on the bbl, to eliminate that etc.
I have a PB case tumbler with SS pins that works wonders on brass etc,
I'll try a can of pellets in the Model "B" thumbler and run it for <1 minute, to see the results.
I can set how aggressive the action will be, by adding or reducing H2o amount etc.
I'll check my pellet stash and find the worst can for the experiment,
if it goes bad, I'll have more lead for the casting sessions, at least I won't destroy the good pellets.
Tia,
Don
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Western NV
4 Sheridan 64/67 yr models - 20 cal/Hammerli 850 Air Mag -17 cal x 2, + 22 cal /QB-79 - 22 cal /Guantlet - 22 cal / Crosman 150 - 22 cal, Second Variant Model / Crosman 160 - 1st Variant Model - 22 cal /MRod Varmint 22 cal /Sentry 705-2 - 22 cal /Sentry 705 - 9T - 25 cal / Dar 17 cal /22 cal Discovery / Dragon Fly I- 17 cal & DF II 22 cal / Diana Storm Rider 17 and 22 cal, plus
CF 4500 45 min SCBA tanks x 3, w/SB F-10 compressor
"Speeds fine, but Accuracy is final"
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker,
It is time to restore the American precept, that each individual is accountable for their actions."
Ronald Reagan
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #10 on:
November 03, 2017, 01:26:23 PM »
Don, that sounds good. I'd love to hear how it turns out for you. Just to give my perspective, I don't think it's some sort of magic wand that will suddenly make terrible pellets into one-holers but maybe it can significantly improve those with a very specific defect. And my guess is it would be pellets that have
thin
flashing at the parting lines...something that is relatively easy to break free and/or hammer flat. As you can see in the photo, the heavier, wider "pillowed" parting lines on the .177 pellets just aren't going to improve substantially from tumbling. So hopefully you have a tin that is a good candidate for this experiment.
There may even be some benefit to doing this with pellets that don't look particularly bad. I tried it with a tin of H&N Crow Magnums with very subtle parting lines but they were still pretty awful when I got done
However I couldn't find a barrel that would even attempt to group them in the first place so maybe they were doomed from the start.
The .22 CPHP on the other hand would try to group but kept throwing fliers 1/2" to 1" in random directions from the main group. And that reminds me, these have heads ranging from 5.46mm to 5.54mm and I had attributed that to the reason they wouldn't perform well. Perhaps that isn't as important in this case (this barrel?) because it's a night and day difference after the deburring.
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MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
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archellas
If it's about NOT knowing anything, then yes, I'm an
Expert
Posts: 1681
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Real Name: TJ
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #11 on:
November 03, 2017, 04:11:10 PM »
Absolutely confirms the logic! Less wind resistance, better performance (in this case accuracy)
Having tried most Gamo pellets, I will agree that they su*k! Except for the Red Fires and the Rockets. Those shoot reasonably well in both .177 and .22.
As far as Crosman, I have maybe been lucky, they shoot quite well for me, I use .22 CPHP in most of my guns, I have tried the Piranhas - they are OK (not great). Crosman domes are very good though!
In .177 I use and like Destroyers, the rest not so much. Even the .177 domes don't thrill me much!
This is where I agree with Dinh, I plink so CPHPs work fine for me and at $6.50/500 from Wally's can't be beat. For accuracy, my PCPs like JSB heavy. I shoot both - depending on which gun, and compensate as needed.
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Land of Lincoln
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Sig Sauer MPX .177 HPA, Customized, Red Dot
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #12 on:
November 04, 2017, 07:27:10 PM »
They group pretty well from a QB78 also, this one is a shade over 1/4" CTC at 25 yards:
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MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
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WesBob
Vendors
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yes
Real Name: Wes
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #13 on:
November 12, 2017, 01:20:33 PM »
Great experiment Jason, good to know it helps! Will be good to see Don's results as well. My Qb78 doesn't shoot crosman or Benjamin well so maybe I'll try this out and see if it improves. You were shaking them under water with a strainer is this right, or without water?
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Caronport , Saskatchewan, Canada
Snowpeak and Diana Air Rifles, Discovery Scopes, JTS Air Rifles and Compressors
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nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #14 on:
November 12, 2017, 01:41:34 PM »
Well, I was combining the tumbling with cleaning so I was using some Purple Power and a 1.5" paint brush while simultaneously tossing them in the wire strainer in the same fashion a cook would do in a frying pan. Crosman's alloy is pretty hard so I was doing it pretty aggressively, also swirling them so they scrub on each other and against the wire mesh to help break up the flashing.
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MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
Barrel accurizing guide
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WesBob
Vendors
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Posts: 2369
yes
Real Name: Wes
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #15 on:
November 12, 2017, 01:57:54 PM »
Ok, thanks! Do you find that purple power works well on pellets in general? Is cleaning them something you do with most pellets?
Thanks for the tips
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Caronport , Saskatchewan, Canada
Snowpeak and Diana Air Rifles, Discovery Scopes, JTS Air Rifles and Compressors
Website: Airgunarcheryfun.ca
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #16 on:
November 12, 2017, 03:01:11 PM »
Yes, I wash almost all my pellets. Based on some experiments I did a few years ago, it doesn't always help but it never hurts.
Purple Power works much better than dish soap but I've only tried 3 or 4 different cleaners. Since washing pellets is something I like to do in the house at night or when the weather is bad outside, I don't like using heavy aromatic solvents like naphtha. It's mostly odorless and doesn't burn or itch if a little gets on my hands...but it degreases like something that you'd expect to require a hazmat suit. The typical use is cleaning automotive parts and engine bays. I can just spritz a grimy engine bay and wait a few minutes and hose it off and everything basically looks new.
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MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
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WesBob
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Real Name: Wes
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #17 on:
November 12, 2017, 03:15:24 PM »
Great to know! So I take it you don't oil your pellets if you are trying to get the grease off? Thanks Jason
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Caronport , Saskatchewan, Canada
Snowpeak and Diana Air Rifles, Discovery Scopes, JTS Air Rifles and Compressors
Website: Airgunarcheryfun.ca
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8753
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #18 on:
November 12, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
After they are clean and dry, I tumble them with a few drops of White Lightning which is a wax lube...a dry lubricant after the carrier solvent evaporates.
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MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
Barrel accurizing guide
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WesBob
Vendors
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Real Name: Wes
Re: Better accuracy by deburring pellets
«
Reply #19 on:
November 12, 2017, 03:46:56 PM »
Great tips and great names for these products, lol!!
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Caronport , Saskatchewan, Canada
Snowpeak and Diana Air Rifles, Discovery Scopes, JTS Air Rifles and Compressors
Website: Airgunarcheryfun.ca
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Better accuracy by deburring pellets